September 28th, 2010, 13:00 UTC in #ubuntu-meeting.


Action Items from last meeting

  • None

Special Items

  • None

Standing Items

Meeting Outcome

[12:58] <NCommander> #startmeeting
[12:58] <MootBot> Meeting started at 06:58. The chair is NCommander.
[12:58] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[12:58] <ogra_ac> bah
[12:58] <ogra_ac> you're to early
[12:59] <rsalveti> NCommander: and the meeting date is wrong
[12:59] <ogra_ac> that too
[12:59] <rsalveti> you created it as 1009
[12:59] <rsalveti> unless you think the release is tomorrow, you're wrong
[12:59] <NCommander> ugh
[12:59] <rsalveti> :-)
[12:59] <ogra_ac> hehe
[13:00] <NCommander> davidm: I'm here :-P, no need to call :-P
[13:00] <davidm> Yep, just saw that, had phone to ear
[13:00] <NCommander> I'm just waiting for GrueMaster to rise
[13:01] <NCommander> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2010/20101109
[13:01] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2010/20101109
[13:01] <ogra_ac> hmpf, note to self: starting update-manager right before a meeting isnt a clever idea
[13:02] <NCommander> There are no action items or special items from the last meeting
[13:02] <ogra_ac> when was that anyway
[13:02] <NCommander> ogra_ac: the 2nd, but only davidm and GrueMaster was there
[13:02] <davidm> Last week
[13:02] <NCommander> most of us were in transit for something
[13:03] <davidm> I ran it since no one besides Gruemaster showed up
[13:03] <davidm> And I like fast meetings
[13:03] <davidm> Speaking of which.....
[13:03] <NCommander> [topic] Standing Itmes
[13:03] <MootBot> New Topic:  Standing Itmes
[13:03] <NCommander> [link] http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/natty/canonical-mobile.html
[13:03] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/natty/canonical-mobile.html
[13:04] <NCommander> [link] http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/natty/canonical-mobile-natty-alpha-1.html
[13:04] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/natty/canonical-mobile-natty-alpha-1.html
[13:04] <NCommander> All my specs expect spice seeds have their work items in properly. We don't have any notes for spice ATM (waiting for IS to post the audio logs of UDS to recreate them)
[13:05] <NCommander> once those are done, I'll write that spec, and get the work items up
[13:05] <rsalveti> I'm finishing reviewing and finalizing the specs today
[13:05] <NCommander> Ugh
[13:05] <NCommander> argh
[13:06] <NCommander> It looks like since my specs didn't make it to approved, they weren't counted togethers the workitem tracker
[13:06] <ogra> hey
[13:06] <ogra> no hurry
[13:06] <ogra> spec deadline is the 18th
[13:06] <NCommander> so the trendline is completely screwed up. again.
[13:06]  * NCommander bangs his head on the desk
[13:06] <ogra> also the WI tracker has to be changed a lot
[13:06] <rsalveti> but we all want to do some "real" work soon :-)
[13:06] <ogra> sure, just go ahead
[13:07] <NCommander> [action] NCommander to track down why his specs aren't on the tracker and to have that fixed
[13:07] <ogra> still though, the tracker points to the wrong team name etc
[13:07] <MootBot> ACTION received:  NCommander to track down why his specs aren't on the tracker and to have that fixed
[13:07] <ogra> NCommander, leave that to me
[13:07] <NCommander> [action] ogra to take previous action
[13:07] <MootBot> ACTION received:  ogra to take previous action
[13:07] <ogra> the tracker has to be rewriotten
[13:07] <ogra> we are not mobile anymore etc
[13:07] <ogra> i haver to work with pitti on that
[13:07] <ogra> *have
[13:07] <rsalveti> true
[13:08] <ogra> nomenclature changed too
[13:08] <NCommander> right
[13:08] <ogra> its on my TODO for this week
[13:08] <NCommander> on, let's move on
[13:08] <rsalveti> will also change the ml?
[13:08] <NCommander> [topic] Kernel Status (cooloney, mpoirier, lag)
[13:08] <MootBot> New Topic:  Kernel Status (cooloney, mpoirier, lag)
[13:08] <ogra> no idea, up to davidm
[13:08] <ogra> NCommander, we dont have kernel guys atm
[13:08] <rsalveti> it'd be better to have ubuntu-arm instead of mobile, so we avoid questions regarding eeepc :-)
[13:08] <ogra> pointless topic
[13:08] <rsalveti> until they start shipping arm cpus
[13:09] <ogra> hehe
[13:09] <lag> cooloney is still with you
[13:09] <NCommander> k
[13:09] <ogra> rsalveti, well, as i said, up to davidm
[13:09] <rsalveti> sure :-)
[13:09] <NCommander> GrueMaster: any point to doing QA status?
[13:09] <ogra> lag, true, but not around atm
[13:09]  * NCommander guesses not
[13:09] <lag> Nope, I believe he's in Lex
[13:09] <rsalveti> cooloney did some work this week
[13:09] <ogra> lets do a short spec overview
[13:09] <ogra> who has what etc
[13:09] <NCommander> [topic] Specification Overview
[13:09] <MootBot> New Topic:  Specification Overview
[13:09]  * NCommander is a fan of that
[13:09] <GrueMaster> No QA status at this time.
[13:10] <ogra> for anything else the topics dont suit well
[13:10] <ogra> oh, and probably discuss A1
[13:10] <NCommander> I currently have improved ARM subarch support + userland subarch support, and spice seeds once we get the session notes recovered and the spec writen.
[13:10] <ogra> https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-arm-n-public-panda-ppa-build-cluster
[13:10] <ogra> https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/appdevs-arm-n-minimal-preinstalled-developer-images
[13:10] <ogra> https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-arm-n-jasper-rewrite
[13:11] <ogra> https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-arm-n-arm-thin-clients
[13:11] <davidm> ogra, the image for the PPA build system, will you get that done before A1 or is that an A2 task for you?
[13:11] <ogra> these are my four
[13:11] <ogra> davidm, A1
[13:11] <davidm> OK thanks'
[13:11] <ogra> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NattyReleaseSchedule
[13:11] <ogra> for anyone who doesnt have it
[13:12]  * ogra waits for more spec links 
[13:13] <rsalveti> https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/multimedia-arm-gles-in-ubuntu
[13:13] <rsalveti> https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-arm-n-handle-core-boot-files-update
[13:13] <rsalveti> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/multimedia-arm-n-set-top-box
[13:13] <rsalveti> https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/packageselection-arm-n-more-stable-vm-solution-for-arm
[13:13] <rsalveti> my four
[13:13]  * ogra has some items on the set-top-box one
[13:13] <ogra> iirc
[13:13] <NCommander> https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-arm-n-userland-subarch-detection
[13:13] <NCommander> https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-arm-natty-improved-subarch-detection
[13:13] <rsalveti> we'll all end up having work items in different blueprints :-)
[13:14] <ogra> yep
[13:14] <ogra> motre than last time
[13:14] <ogra> which is good :)
[13:14] <NCommander> https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-arm-n-seed-spices
[13:14] <GrueMaster> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-arm-n-customcheckboxtests
[13:14] <rsalveti> yup :-)
[13:14] <ogra> is persia with us ?
[13:14] <davidm> ogra, I have pretty much taken over panda-ppa-build-cluster.   But any assistance with wiki spec gladly accepted ;-P
[13:14] <ogra> davidm, i'll do it :)
[13:15] <davidm> rsalveti, I added the paste notes to the botton
[13:15] <rsalveti> davidm: cool, was going to do that, but didn't know if I should put at the wiki or the blueprint itself
[13:15] <rsalveti> thanks anyway
[13:16] <davidm> I put it at the bottom of the wiki for now
[13:16] <davidm> Seemed to be a good place
[13:16] <davidm> persia, ??
[13:16] <NCommander> -ENOPERSIA
[13:16] <ogra> rsalveti, the blueprint should just have WIs
[13:16] <ogra> all the rest goes into the wiki
[13:16] <rsalveti> ok, because I saw many blueprints with notes in it
[13:16] <rsalveti> mostly linaro ones
[13:17] <ogra> well, for dumping the notes the whiteboard is an easy place
[13:17] <ogra> but during cleanup and drafting it should be moved in the proper place
[13:17] <rsalveti> ok
[13:18] <ogra> also note that linaro might just handle it differently
[13:18] <rsalveti> yeah
[13:18] <ogra> better to look at ubuntu specs ;)
[13:18] <nigelb> !info python-gtk2
[13:18] <ubottu> python-gtk2 (source: pygtk): Python bindings for the GTK+ widget set. In component main, is optional. Version 2.21.0-0ubuntu1 (maverick), package size 721 kB, installed size 2628 kB
[13:18] <nigelb> err, sorry
[13:18] <NCommander> anyone else got any other specs to post?
[13:19] <ogra> apart from persias we should have all
[13:19]  * NCommander has a pretty good idea at this point who's doing what for the forseable future
[13:19] <NCommander> then I'm moving on unless someone else has something
[13:19] <ogra> we will get a new employee soon
[13:19] <ogra> please think about WIs he can take
[13:19]  * NCommander has nothing for FTBFS status, and there are no images yet so ...
[13:19] <ogra> from your specs
[13:19] <rsalveti> what he's good at?
[13:19] <ogra> images failed today, havent checked why
[13:19] <NCommander> ogra: oh, crontabs are running?
[13:20] <GrueMaster> Do we still want omap & dove images to build?
[13:20] <ogra> rsalveti, everything but dont overload him ;)
[13:20]  * NCommander didn't see a build failure image this morning
[13:20] <ogra> GrueMaster, omap -> yes, dove -> no i guess
[13:20] <rsalveti> ogra: :-)
[13:20] <ogra> NCommander, you should have mail
[13:20] <NCommander> GrueMaster: Dove is dead. omap3 is in the hands in Ubuntu ARM, and omap4 is maintained by Canonical
[13:20] <ogra> davidm, can you confirm ? no more dove in natty, right ?
[13:21] <davidm> correct no more dove in natty
[13:21] <GrueMaster> We'll probably kickstart it again mid February-March.
[13:21] <ogra> for reference: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2010-November/031952.html
[13:22] <ogra> that applies to omap3 currently
[13:22] <NCommander> GrueMaster: don't make me come and stab you
[13:22] <ogra> waiting for solutions from kernel and linaro teams
[13:22] <davidm> GrueMaster, I doubt it, the kernel we have access to is too far behind for natty
[13:23] <ogra> we might have a slight prob for A1 btw, we need livecd-rootfs to work for the preinstalled ones and i think cjwatson wont focus on live images (usually he looks only at alternate for A1)
[13:23] <NCommander> ogra: I'll keep on eye on it for A1
[13:23] <ogra> so that might need some heavy lifting on our side
[13:24] <NCommander> [action] NCommander to supervise pre-installed omap4 images for Alpha 1
[13:24] <ogra> to have the deps and seeds right
[13:24] <MootBot> ACTION received:  NCommander to supervise pre-installed omap4 images for Alpha 1
[13:24] <NCommander> ^- standing item until Alpha 1
[13:24] <ogra> as well as ftbfs
[13:24] <ogra> NCommander, thanks
[13:24] <ogra> the ftbfs list looks awful atm
[13:24] <NCommander> ogra: I've got access to GrueMaster's pandas, so I can do TI work again.
[13:24] <ogra> though thats mainly kde/QT related
[13:24] <NCommander> ogra: not as bad as in cycles past TBH
[13:25] <ogra> well, but again qreal issues as far as i can see
[13:25] <ogra> the always reoccuring issue
[13:25] <ogra> NCommander, how about finally applying the upstream fix to it ?
[13:25] <NCommander> ogra: the one we can't fix without breaking the ABI of Qt :-/
[13:25] <Riddell> where are qreal issues?
[13:25] <ogra> davidm, ^^^
[13:25] <NCommander> ogra: upstream won't move until Qt5
[13:26] <ogra> any words on that ?
[13:26] <ogra> Riddell, armel as usual
[13:26] <ogra> Riddell, we have that every release
[13:26] <davidm> NCommander, I thought upstream wnated the change??
[13:26] <NCommander> ogra: sometime in the future. Not even Nokia knows when based off feedback from last Akademy
[13:26] <NCommander> davidm: yeah, but they can't until they break the ABI in general
[13:26] <ogra> well, they asked for it at the brussels UDS
[13:26] <NCommander> ogra: Linaro asked for it
[13:26] <ogra> and its really a non issue since its armel only
[13:26] <davidm> NCommander, can you please verify that upstream does not want it now?
[13:26] <ogra> NCommander, no
[13:27] <ogra> NCommander, i was at the discussion between asac and upstream
[13:27] <davidm> It is really creating havoc here
[13:27] <Riddell> ogra: I haven't seen any new qreal issues.  there's the issue with CXXFLAGS += -Wa,-mimplicit-it=thumb
[13:27] <NCommander> davidm: we can not break it down here independently of upstream. If upstream wants it broken, they need to fix it upstream, then we get it via normal updates
[13:27] <ogra> Riddell, hmm, that might be a new one, usually NCommander puts in a few weeks to adjust his armel patches per app though
[13:28] <ogra> which costs a lot of time
[13:28] <NCommander> ogra: that's a toolchian issue because we had a patch in previously to make that the default
[13:28] <ogra> and upstream aksed to just switch TQ on armel for fixing that upstream
[13:28] <NCommander> ogra: doko kicked it out since upstream rejected it.
[13:28]  * NCommander had a discussion with doko on this very issue during UDS.
[13:28] <davidm> NCommander, can you please verify with upstream if they want/will take the change.
[13:28] <ogra> NCommander, on the upstream QT qreal changes ?
[13:29]  * ogra wonders how thats related to doko
[13:29] <Riddell> the CXXFLAGS is related to doko
[13:29] <ogra> right, but thats fixed
[13:29] <NCommander> ogra: CXXFLAGS was doko, and no it wasn't, it was worked around.
[13:30]  * ogra doesnt really care about stuff that has a fix/workaround already 
[13:30] <Riddell> most packages still fail to build on arm because of the CXXFLAGS issue, been waiting for doko to show up to discuss it
[13:30] <ogra> what i care about is NCommander  wasting workdays on the same issue each release
[13:30] <ogra> adjusting the same patches every round
[13:31] <ogra> while upstream asked us to fix it with an upstream patch
[13:31] <NCommander> ogra: and we can't fix it upstream
[13:31] <ogra> we can
[13:31] <NCommander> I'm not repeating this disucssion. We do it every cycle
[13:31] <ogra> just patch QT properly and be done
[13:31] <NCommander> ogra: how do you suggest we sanely break Qt's ABI
[13:32] <NCommander> I'm not doing it
[13:32] <ogra> we only break it on armel
[13:32] <ogra> and given that we rebuild the whole distro, thats a non issue
[13:33] <NCommander> I am *NOT* having this discussion again
[13:33] <NCommander> I will post the links to every meeting we have discusssed it
[13:33] <NCommander> Because its the same argument going around
[13:33] <NCommander> And I have no interest wasting meeting time discussing it again when nothing has changed
[13:34]  * ogra prefers wasting 1h meeting time to two manweeks of work 
[13:35] <ogra> i still fail to see the reason to not do it
[13:36] <davidm> Next please
[13:36] <NCommander> [topic] Any Other Business
[13:36] <MootBot> New Topic:  Any Other Business
[13:36] <NCommander> Going once
[13:36] <NCommander> Going twice
[13:36] <NCommander> Going three times
[13:37] <NCommander> #endmeeting

Action Items

  • ogra to track down why NCommander's specs aren't on the tracker and to have that fixed
  • NCommander to supervise pre-installed omap4 images for Alpha 1


  • Spice seeds spec currently in a state of non-existence due to missing notes
  • Spec deadline the 18th
  • NCommander to drive omap4 alpha 1 images

Weekly Reports

Michael Casadevall (NCommander)

  • Spec drafting continues

ARM/Meeting/2010/20101109 (last edited 2011-07-28 17:58:26 by davidm)