20110428

Differences between revisions 2 and 7 (spanning 5 versions)

Contents

Agenda
Meeting Outcome
1. Action Items
Weekly Reports

March 10th, 2011, 15:00 UTC in #ubuntu-meeting.

Agenda

Meeting Links

Link to previous meeting
- MobileTeam/Meeting/2011/20110303
Link to next meeting
- MobileTeam/Meeting/2011/20110317

Action Items from last meeting

ogra to fix WI tracker
everyone to check their WI status on the whiteboards that the right beta tag is set

Standing Items

http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/ubuntu-armel.html
http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/ubuntu-armel-ubuntu-11.04-beta-1.html
Unity 2D Status
Kernel Status (cooloney, rsalveti)
ARM Porting/FTBFS status (NCommander, janimo)
ARM Image Status (ogra, NCommander)
QA Status (GrueMaster)
Any Other Business

Meeting Outcome

[15:03] <NCommander> #startmeeting
[15:03] <MootBot> Meeting started at 09:03. The chair is NCommander.
[15:03] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[15:03] <ogra> moo
[15:03]  * rsalveti waves
[15:03] <NCommander> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2011/20110310
[15:03] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2011/20110310
[15:03] <janimo> hello
[15:03] <NCommander> so who's here?
[15:03] <rsalveti> I'm not
[15:03] <davidm> Hi
[15:04] <NCommander> [topic] Action Items
[15:04] <MootBot> New Topic:  Action Items
[15:04] <NCommander> [topic] ogra to fix WI tracker
[15:04] <MootBot> New Topic:  ogra to fix WI tracker
[15:04] <ogra> hmm, havent checked it yet, but it should be fine now
[15:05] <NCommander> [topic] everyone to check their WI status on the whiteboards that the right beta tag is set
[15:05] <MootBot> New Topic:  everyone to check their WI status on the whiteboards that the right beta tag is set
[15:05] <ogra> looks fine
[15:06] <ogra> NCommander, no beta WIs for you at all ?
[15:06] <ogra> everyone else seems to show up
[15:07] <NCommander> ogra: my one spec was axed because you, me,a nd persia agreed the design was unworkable for generic subarch support
[15:07] <ogra> well, i guess you still have enough mono to do ;)
[15:07] <NCommander> ...
[15:08] <NCommander> [topic] Standing Items
[15:08] <MootBot> New Topic:  Standing Items
[15:08] <NCommander> [link] http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/ubuntu-armel.html
[15:08] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/ubuntu-armel.html
[15:08] <NCommander> [link] http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/ubuntu-armel-ubuntu-11.04-beta-1.html
[15:08] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/ubuntu-armel-ubuntu-11.04-beta-1.html
[15:08] <rsalveti> most my WI related to GLES are basically waiting the implementation to finish
[15:08] <rsalveti> so no much to do
[15:08] <rsalveti> then just remain the others
[15:09] <rsalveti> webkit fix is now uploaded, and should hit the archive soon
[15:09] <rsalveti> then we can go back and use ubiquity with the slideshow
[15:09] <NCommander> rsalveti: once we have it confirmed fixed, I'll delete the livecd-rootfs hack
[15:09]  * ogra still cant remember what packageselection-arm-n-device-type-detection meant
[15:10] <rsalveti> NCommander: I tested already with a preinstalled image
[15:10] <ogra> err, the Wi i have for that
[15:10] <rsalveti> NCommander: and it worked fine, just need to wait it to build and hit the archive
[15:10] <rsalveti> and that will take between 1 and 2 days
[15:10] <ogra> persia, i think that was yours, could you somehow brief me again offline ?
[15:11] <NCommander> anything else on the WIs?
[15:12] <ogra> i wonder if we shouldnt remove the ppa cluster
[15:12] <ogra> davidm, ^^^
[15:12] <NCommander> ^- davidm
[15:12] <ogra> its totally not bound to release cycle but makes us look slightly bad
[15:12] <ogra> i think we're doing really great, but thanks to that spec the tracker doesnt really reflect that
[15:13] <rsalveti> it's not something that affect the release
[15:13] <ogra> yeah, thats what i mean
[15:13] <rsalveti> it's more a launchpad feature than ubuntu, in some way
[15:13] <NCommander> ogra: maybe simply target it to O cycle?
[15:14] <ogra> NCommander, right, something like that, but its davids spec and his decision
[15:14] <ogra> seems he's not around so lets move
[15:14] <ogra> we can clearify that later
[15:14] <NCommander> [topic] Unity 2D Status
[15:14] <MootBot> New Topic:  Unity 2D Status
[15:14] <ogra> will see an update before end of the week
[15:14] <NCommander> cool
[15:14] <ogra> lots of fixes in trunk we dont have in the image/archive yet
[15:15] <ogra> nothing new otherwise
[15:15] <NCommander> anything else?
[15:15] <ogra> not from me
[15:15] <NCommander> [topic] Kernel Status (cooloney, rsalveti)
[15:15] <MootBot> New Topic:  Kernel Status (cooloney, rsalveti)
[15:15] <ogra> where is our .38 build ?
[15:16] <ogra> i thought GrueMaster approved it
[15:16] <rsalveti> no other news beside the same package from last week that GrueMaster tested
[15:16] <davidm> I pulled the PPA cluster from the timeline
[15:16] <ogra> davidm, thanks :)
[15:16] <davidm> and removed it from natty entirely
[15:16] <GrueMaster> I did.
[15:16] <ogra> move it to O
[15:16] <davidm> I did  that weeks and weeks ago
[15:16] <rsalveti> GrueMaster reported back to cooloney, but now it'd probably be good to reply the email thread saying we want it by default
[15:16] <ogra> it makes us look good from the beginning :)
[15:16] <rsalveti> and change the boot.scr arguments, to use the DVI output
[15:16] <ogra> ah, right
[15:16] <GrueMaster> I did that as well (I think).
[15:17] <ogra> rsalveti, how will we handle upgrades =
[15:17] <davidm> ogra, it's it's still showing up let me know what I need to do to remove it entirely
[15:17] <ogra> we still have no solution for that
[15:17] <GrueMaster> email that is.
[15:17] <ogra> yes, i saw GrueMaster's mail
[15:17] <ogra> i dont think there should be any blocker
[15:17] <ogra> statement was clear
[15:17] <rsalveti> no, and we could just do the switch
[15:17] <rsalveti> for the update I believe we could just document it for now
[15:18] <rsalveti> otherwise we would need to hack the boot args
[15:18] <rsalveti> but the user will need to change the cable anyway
[15:18] <ogra> yes, i actually did expect tim had done it after GrueMaster's mail
[15:18] <rsalveti> yup, that's whay it may need another email requesting it
[15:19] <ogra> well, i'll use IRC ;)
[15:19]  * ogra pinged tim
[15:19] <rsalveti> :-)
[15:19] <ogra> i still would like to have a proper upgrade path though
[15:19] <rsalveti> GrueMaster: anything to report for the kernel tests?
[15:19]  * janimo is running the 2.6.38-1024-omap4 kernel from PPA, looks fine after a few days
[15:19] <rsalveti> yeah, it'd be good to have
[15:20] <ogra> i.e. some message from update-manager "please plug your cable into the dvi port after reboot"
[15:20] <janimo> headless only though, mostly building workloads
[15:20] <ogra> thats the least we should have
[15:20] <rsalveti> ogra: yup, that can be changed at the package itself?
[15:20] <rsalveti> like a postinst?
[15:20] <ogra> there is a script in u-m somewhere
[15:21] <ogra> we added a warning for ARMv5 vs v6 between karmic and jaunty
[15:21] <rsalveti> ogra: ok, so should we wait this to be done before putting it as default?
[15:21] <rsalveti> I can dig to see what was done
[15:21] <ogra> dyfet was actually supposed to add a v7 warning too and never managed
[15:21] <GrueMaster> This is only temporary though, right?
[15:21] <ogra> i think that can happen hand in hand
[15:21] <rsalveti> it shuold be
[15:21] <ogra> GrueMaster, we dont know if it will be solved by release
[15:21] <rsalveti> before the release we want to use hdmi again
[15:22] <rsalveti> and have a proper driver
[15:22] <ogra> sure
[15:22] <ogra> but we dont have it at all yet
[15:22] <rsalveti> no, and not completely sure if TI will manage to implemente the hdmi driver
[15:23] <rsalveti> but that's another problem
[15:23] <ogra> so at least being prepared for such a warning in u-m before string freeze is needed
[15:23] <ogra> we can still drop it
[15:23] <rsalveti> ok, will look to have it
[15:23] <ogra> ok, kernel switch triggered, tim is building it now
[15:23] <rsalveti> awesome
[15:23] <rsalveti> any other question for kernel?
[15:23] <ogra> (seems he missed GrueMaster's mail)
[15:23] <davidm> outstanding
[15:24] <rsalveti> ogra: guess he was waiting the reply at the pull request email
[15:24] <ogra> GrueMaster, use a <blink> tag in the subject line in the future ;)
[15:24]  * NCommander is having chromium stability issues this morning :-(
[15:24] <NCommander> [topic] ARM Porting/FTBFS status (NCommander, janimo)
[15:24] <MootBot> New Topic:  ARM Porting/FTBFS status (NCommander, janimo)
[15:24] <GrueMaster> Interesting.  We even discussed it on IRC.
[15:25] <ogra> GrueMaster, but you didnt use <blink> there either :P
[15:25] <janimo> some progress on FTBFS count
[15:25] <NCommander> So on ARM porting, I'm kinda grinding my gears w.r.t. to mono
[15:25] <janimo> closed a few arm-porting-queue tagged bugs
[15:25] <NCommander> We've gotthe SMP patch which does wonders for the mono 2.10 test suite (and was incorperated in the 2.10.1 release)
[15:25] <ogra> NCommander, do we need to send Tobin some earplugs ?
[15:25] <janimo> including the two outstanding Qt ones (pending a test for neon still)
[15:26] <NCommander> but I'm not making any headway with a successful backport to 2.6, I think the underlying mono crashes are coming from PInvoke() failures in Gtk#
[15:26] <NCommander> but it seems odd to me that they're over occuring in 1-processor mode
[15:27] <janimo> NCommander, can we just apply the membarrier patch to 2.6 and do an upload, if it is clearly needed even if does not seem to direclty impact banshee?
[15:27] <NCommander> I was able to produce the same failures on Debian sid, so at least I've ruled out thumb2 as the immediate cause
[15:27] <ogra> we could just quickly rewrite banshee in C :)
[15:27] <NCommander> janimo: I can do that, but I don't really want to do multiple mono uploads
[15:28] <NCommander> janimo: are you sure banshee fully worked when in nosmp mode? Its slightly more stable, but trying to do anything like play music or rescan library causes a crash
[15:28] <NCommander> (also, f-spot is still crashing)
[15:28] <ogra> luckily we dont ship f-spot anymore since maverick
[15:28] <janimo> NCommander, no I am not sure at all. rsalveti and GrueMaster looked at nosmp testing in more detail
[15:28] <ogra> how is tomboy
[15:28] <NCommander> ogra: its still a valid test case
[15:28] <NCommander> ogra: tomboy works
[15:28] <GrueMaster> Tomboy never failed.
[15:28] <ogra> we usually had it working while all other apps failed
[15:29] <ogra> right
[15:29] <NCommander> rsalveti: ^- banshee nosmp question
[15:29] <GrueMaster> My guess is that it is not multithreaded.
[15:29] <janimo> The bug is probably in mono but some apps manage to not trigger it
[15:29] <NCommander> janimo: well, that's why I think its pinvoke()
[15:29] <janimo> depending on how Gtk intesive they are
[15:29] <ogra> tomboy is really trivial indeed
[15:29] <NCommander> (for reference sake, pinvoke is the magic C# to C binding)
[15:29] <rsalveti> I just tested with banshee
[15:29] <janimo> NCommander, IIRc in Dallas I managed to get stable banshee if I uninstalled the default theme
[15:29] <janimo> and using some ghetto default
[15:30] <janimo> gtk theme that is
[15:30] <NCommander> janimo: doesn't work here, I have it using no theme and still crash city
[15:30] <NCommander> rsalveti: right, but what did you do in banshee beside launch it?
[15:30] <rsalveti> NCommander: use it normally, playing music and such
[15:30] <janimo> nothing, look at the About menu :)
[15:30] <GrueMaster> NCommander: I played audio for a good hour on my BeagleXM
[15:30] <rsalveti> yeah, it was quite stable
[15:30] <NCommander> grumble
[15:31] <NCommander> I guess I need to run the test suite in nosmp mode and see if we still get failures or if we're looking at a red hearing
[15:31] <janimo> GrueMaster, never had crash recently on single core?
[15:31] <GrueMaster> Could be we are seeing multiple issues.
[15:31] <NCommander> What's making things difficult w.r.t. to backporting is the JIT is passing all the tests
[15:31] <NCommander> And between 2.6 -> 2.10, someone added iPhone support
[15:31] <NCommander> which means there's a TON of commits clogging up the works
[15:31] <rsalveti> ouch :-(
[15:32] <NCommander> plus I'm not even sure mono is fixed in 2.10 since I can't run banshee without spending a week recompiling the entire stack
[15:32] <rsalveti> argh, problem of using a quite old version
[15:32] <NCommander> (I'm semi-tempted to throw Gentoo ina  chroot and test it that way)
[15:32] <janimo> NCommander, right, when I looked I could find may arm commits but nothing which wuld imply it fixes some tests
[15:32] <NCommander> janimo: I'm almost thinking it probably got improved as part of the iPhon10:30:37 < janimo> nothing, look at the About menu :)
[15:32] <NCommander> 10:30:49 < GrueMaster> NCommander: I played audio for a good hour on my  BeagleXM
[15:32] <NCommander> 10:31:02 < rsalveti> yeah, it was quite stable
[15:32] <janimo> NCommander, or Suse or any distro with new mono I guess
[15:32] <NCommander> &^%$@$!#
[15:32] <janimo> ah they may not have arm
[15:32] <NCommander> janimo: SuSE doesn't have an ARM port
[15:33] <rsalveti> fedora?
[15:33] <NCommander> hrm
[15:33]  * NCommander looks
[15:33] <janimo> probably not very wdely tested
[15:33] <rsalveti> or OE
[15:33] <GrueMaster> Fedora has an arm port in the works (I think).
[15:33] <rsalveti> but then don't know if they are building banshee and mono
[15:34] <rsalveti> there is a mono recipe at OE, but 2.6.3
[15:34] <ogra> doesnt OE even default to hardfloat ?
[15:34] <NCommander> they've got banshee available for Fedora
[15:35] <ogra> that should have build options close to ours (v7 thumb2)
[15:35] <rsalveti> don't think they already changed it
[15:35] <NCommander> ogra: I already elimated v7+thumb2 as the cause of the regression
[15:35] <NCommander> bah
[15:35] <NCommander> Fedora is shipping 2.6 still
[15:35] <rsalveti> argh
[15:35] <rsalveti> who is using 2.10?
[15:35] <rsalveti> opensuse only?
[15:35] <ogra> megoo ?
[15:35] <NCommander> checking
[15:35] <ogra> did anyone check there
[15:35] <NCommander> ogra: no
[15:36] <janimo> various IPhone and Android 3rd partuy apps maybe
[15:36] <NCommander> ogra: but its of limited use. the problem is the entire dependency stack
[15:36] <NCommander> Might simply need to build a chroot then build mono + gtksharp + everything else from scratch
[15:36]  * NCommander wimpers
[15:36]  * GrueMaster votes to bag mono for this cycle - again.
[15:36] <NCommander> but I think we need to confirm 2.10 is regression free
[15:36] <rsalveti> GrueMaster: it'd be nice to have
[15:36] <janimo> NCommander, does C# have the equivalent of inline functions, so Gtk sharp has some bits unless rebuilt against a new mono, even if we upload a fixed mono?
[15:36] <ogra> GrueMaster, that means we need to take over rhythmbox mainteanance
[15:36] <rsalveti> and it seems we're getting closer somehow
[15:37] <NCommander> janimo: nout out of the box
[15:37] <NCommander> at least
[15:37] <NCommander> I don't think so
[15:37] <NCommander> janimo: I know the official Microsoftimplementation can make native code .exe's
[15:37] <NCommander> I don't know if mono embeds native code into the generated PE files
[15:37] <GrueMaster> NCommander: Instead of trying to build it locally, should it go in a ppa?
[15:38] <NCommander> GrueMaster: repackaging mono for 2.10 would be an absolute nightmare
[15:38] <NCommander> and I'm not confortable in my packaging skills to try it
[15:38] <janimo> NCommander, well it is packaged for Deb as you said, just too risky to sync at this point
[15:39] <NCommander> janimo: its not uploaded, the transition is sitll in progress
[15:39] <janimo> I say we should keep debugging (I will help as well) and only keep Rhythmbox if we cannot fix it say 2 weeks before release
[15:39] <ogra> and what would we gain ? we cant upload it at all without affecting the other arches
[15:40] <ogra> 2.10 is clearly not natty for the others
[15:40] <NCommander> ogra: right, but we need to make sure that 2.10 is fixed. At the very release, O cycle which we could ship 2.10 will work
[15:40] <ogra> sure
[15:40] <NCommander> if we know 2.10 works, then we can bisect, and deal with all the iphoneos patches
[15:40] <NCommander> but I don't want to deal with that without a "verification-confirmed" in hand :-P
[15:41] <rsalveti> yeah, we need to test with 2.10
[15:41] <rsalveti> or git upstream
[15:41] <NCommander> I'll work with git, since I at least have been making progress with mono upstream devs :-)
[15:41] <NCommander> actually
[15:41] <rsalveti> well, it should work :-)
[15:41]  * NCommander checks gentoo very quickly
[15:41] <NCommander> if I can do 'emerge banshee' and let it run for a day, I'd be happy
[15:42] <janimo> NCommander, so gentoo has good arm support?
[15:42] <rsalveti> Nafallo: http://packages.gentoo.org/package/dev-lang/mono
[15:42]  * ogra would suspect OE to be easier
[15:42] <NCommander> oh right, nuts
[15:42] <NCommander> gentoo's ARM port is kinda ...
[15:42] <GrueMaster> If I may, we don't want to throw all or even most of our engineering effort at one package.  We have enough other stuff that is in the image that needs attention.
[15:42] <rsalveti> janimo: it would be easier to have an arm rootfs
[15:42] <NCommander> in the same state as its m68k port
[15:42] <janimo> NCommander, one of the mono arm devs is from Budapest, worst case we track him down at UDS and let him fix this :)
[15:43] <rsalveti> Nafallo: sorry
[15:43] <rsalveti> NCommander: http://packages.gentoo.org/package/dev-lang/mono
[15:43] <rsalveti> 2.10.1-r1
[15:43] <NCommander> davidm: I think a bit of direction is needed: how high is mono on the priority list
[15:43]  * Nafallo steps away from the gentoo.
[15:43] <rsalveti> and banshee 1.8.1
[15:43] <Nafallo> no worries
[15:43] <NCommander> rsalveti: right but its masked to powerpc/amd64/i386 only. There's an armel overlay but this is leading to the path to madness
[15:43]  * ogra guesses the banshee shop is pretty high
[15:43] <rsalveti> argh, no easy path
[15:44] <NCommander> rsalveti: right, so best bet is to simply try and build mono stack by hand and pray
[15:44] <rsalveti> yeah
[15:44] <ogra> NCommander, really, take OE
[15:44] <janimo> GrueMaster, well I mean since our WIs seem to be getting close to solved and we get into more bugfixing mode, this is one important bug. Of course we should see if there are other more important issues
[15:44] <NCommander> [action] NCommander to build mono stack by hand and confirm 2.10 fixes mono regression
[15:44] <MootBot> ACTION received:  NCommander to build mono stack by hand and confirm 2.10 fixes mono regression
[15:44] <NCommander> ogra: looking at OE, I don't even see a package list
[15:45] <janimo> NCommander, but debian arm does not experience this crash een on 2.6 ?
[15:45] <rsalveti> ogra: mono is still 2.6
[15:45] <rsalveti> so he would first need to update the mono recipe
[15:45] <rsalveti> and that can take the same amount of work as updating the ubuntu package by hand
[15:45] <NCommander> janimo: no, it does
[15:46] <NCommander> rsalveti: I was able to reproduce the crash in a Sid chroot with the SMP patch
[15:47] <janimo> NCommander, great than. I had the impression we were special because of ARMv7 and newer toolchain
[15:47] <NCommander> janimo: its probably a good idea to have someone double check my results to make sure I made no error
[15:47] <janimo> NCommander, do we absolutely rule out hw errors
[15:47] <janimo> panda kernel/memory stuff
[15:47] <NCommander> janimo: mono devs did report they don't see issues on tegra
[15:48] <NCommander> although I'm blocking if that's SMP or not
[15:48] <janimo> that is SMP AFAIK
[15:48] <ogra> all tegra2 cpus are multicore
[15:48] <NCommander> my tegra system is currently got a trashed install on it
[15:48] <GrueMaster> Was it tegra or tegra 2?
[15:48] <NCommander> ogra: can you easy test banshee?
[15:48] <ogra> only on maverick
[15:48] <NCommander> oh, argh
[15:48] <ogra> i cant upgrade to natty
[15:48] <NCommander> ogra: we had the issue with maverick I believe
[15:49] <NCommander> ^as well
[15:49] <janimo> ogra, it used to fail on maverick too so ok
[15:49] <GrueMaster> Yes, we did.
[15:49] <ogra> right, what would a test on tegra improve here ?
[15:49] <NCommander> [action] ogra to determine if mono still crashes on tegra
[15:49] <ogra> for maverick
[15:49] <MootBot> ACTION received:  ogra to determine if mono still crashes on tegra
[15:49] <NCommander> ogra: rules out panda HW.
[15:49] <ogra> k
[15:49] <rsalveti> well, mono version from maverick is quite the same
[15:49] <NCommander> you probably need the SMP patch
[15:50] <rsalveti> NCommander: don't you also have a ac100 in hands?
[15:50] <NCommander> rsalveti: the install is trashed
[15:50] <rsalveti> hehe :-)
[15:50] <GrueMaster> Best to fail first, then test the fix.
[15:50] <ogra> yeah, and restoring an SD takes 10mins
[15:51] <rsalveti> wrong window
[15:51] <NCommander> right, we're running out of time
[15:51] <NCommander> so lets take this offline
[15:51] <ogra> ++
[15:51] <rsalveti> yup, move
[15:51] <NCommander> [topic] ARM Image Status (ogra, NCommander)
[15:51] <MootBot> New Topic:  ARM Image Status (ogra, NCommander)
[15:51] <ogra> headless is there !!!
[15:51] <ogra> :)
[15:51] <NCommander> go ogra + janimo
[15:51] <rsalveti> \o/
[15:52] <GrueMaster> Needs work, but it is booting.
[15:52] <ogra> bug 732576 needs some testing for the fis
[15:52] <ubottu> Launchpad bug 732576 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Natty) "oem-config-debconf does not start on preinstalled images" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/732576
[15:52] <ogra> *fix
[15:52] <ogra> should be in the next ubiquity upload, i'll test the fix after meeting
[15:52] <ogra> serial by default is still miissing
[15:53] <davidm> NCommander, sorry was pulled away on a call
[15:53] <ogra> and to make GrueMaster happy i hardcoded "localhost" as hostname for all preinstalled images today ;)
[15:53] <davidm> mono is important
[15:54] <ogra> Bug 732581 is an intresting one
[15:54] <NCommander> davidm: not a problem
[15:54] <ubottu> Launchpad bug 732581 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Natty) "oem-config colormap distorted during package removal in oem-config-debconf on omap4 preinstalled images" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/732581
[15:54] <NCommander> davidm: ok, just wanted to make sure I wasjustified to continue working on it
[15:54] <davidm> NCommander, we need to fix it, if at all possible
[15:54] <ogra> i would like to see someone test on a beagle
[15:54] <GrueMaster> ogra: Will do later this am.
[15:54] <ogra> since i'm not sure its the panda framebuffer being broken here
[15:55] <ogra> GrueMaster, just wait for the next build, that shuld also have the ubiquity-dm fix so you dont need to tinker with the image
[15:55] <GrueMaster> k
[15:56] <ogra> headless will be the first image to build every day, ist also the fastest build (shoudl be available at 00:30 UTC)
[15:56] <ogra> so we can easily test core bits before netbook gets built
[15:56] <GrueMaster> Especially if netbook crashes.
[15:57] <ogra> yep
[15:57] <rsalveti> awesome
[15:57] <janimo> NCommander, to avoid building the whole stack of mono, you may first build banshee from source too with a minimal set of dependencies and plugins which still lead to crash
[15:57] <ogra> its a good measure
[15:57] <ogra> .. done with image status
[15:57] <NCommander> janimo: I'm going to follow the instructions on the website to build banshee
[15:57] <NCommander> [topic] QA Status (GrueMaster)
[15:57] <MootBot> New Topic:  QA Status (GrueMaster)
[15:58] <NCommander> janimo: I don't think it will be TOO bad
[15:58] <GrueMaster> Documented installation process at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM/HeadlessInstall
[15:58] <janimo> NCommander, ok, I now it has lots of plugins enabled as it is
[15:58] <ogra> meh
[15:58] <GrueMaster> For the minimal image.
[15:58] <NCommander> janimo: almost all ship with banshee
[15:58] <ogra> GrueMaster, can you follow the naming scheme thats on /OMAP
[15:59] <ogra> since thats what we link from the image download pages
[15:59] <GrueMaster> ogra: I left it this way in case we start building more images for other platforms next cycle.  Reduce wiki clutter.
[15:59] <janimo> NCommander, right. I mean if there are plugins written in C# which now ship, but which if disabled still crash banshee, those you don;t need to include in the full rebuild
[15:59] <ogra> GrueMaster, well, it should be linked from /OMAP and have a releasename in the url
[15:59] <NCommander> janimo: fair enough
[16:00]  * GrueMaster waits for mono discussion to finish.
[16:00] <GrueMaster> ogra: This was also just a first run.
[16:00] <janimo> uh sorry, I brought it up again
[16:01] <GrueMaster> Time's up.
[16:01] <ogra> GrueMaster, yeah https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM/OMAP links to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM/OMAPMaverickInstall and should also link to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM/OMAPNattyInstall ...
[16:01]  * NCommander can't remember if we're running into another meeting
[16:01] <ogra> make the headless instructions a link on the natty one
[16:01] <NCommander> [topic] Any Other Business
[16:01] <MootBot> New Topic:  Any Other Business
[16:01] <NCommander> (very quickly :-))
[16:01] <ogra> NCommander, finish, we can take the rest offline
[16:02] <NCommander> #endmeeting
[16:02] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:02.

Action Items

NCommander to build mono stack by hand and confirm 2.10 fixes mono regression
ogra to determine if mono still crashes on tegra

Weekly Reports

Michael Casadevall (NCommander)

Mono debugging continues

Tobin Davis (GrueMaster)

Testing of items held over until Alpha 3 release done
- Kernel 2.6.38 for omap4 - looks good so far, no hangs or oops
- Tested kernel to fix jvm issues on buildd's (babbage)
- Closed several older bugs that are no longer reproducible in current or past release images.
- Mono patch testing
More unity-2d testing and bug filing
Tested preliminary build of headless image
- Documented installation process at ARM/HeadlessInstall

Minutes

ARM/Meeting/2011/20110428 (last edited 2011-07-28 17:58:55 by pool-96-226-234-14)

-  ⇤ ← Revision 2 as of 2011-03-09 02:03:11 → 
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+## page was copied from MobileTeam/Meeting/2011/20110303
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-'''February 17th, 2011, 15:00 UTC''' in '''#ubuntu-meeting'''.<<BR>>
+'''March 10th, 2011, 15:00 UTC''' in '''#ubuntu-meeting'''.<<BR>>
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-  * [[MobileTeam/Meeting/2011/20110224]]
+  * [[MobileTeam/Meeting/2011/20110303]]
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-  * [[MobileTeam/Meeting/2011/20110310]]
+  * [[MobileTeam/Meeting/2011/20110317]]
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- * None
+ * ogra to fix WI tracker
 * everyone to check their WI status on the whiteboards that the right beta tag is set
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- * http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/ubuntu-armel-natty-alpha-3.html
+ * http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/ubuntu-armel-ubuntu-11.04-beta-1.html
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- * QA Status (GrueMaster)
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+ * QA Status (GrueMaster)
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-[14:59] <NCommander> #startmeeting
[14:59] <MootBot> Meeting started at 08:59. The chair is NCommander.
[14:59] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[14:59]  * rsalveti waves
[15:00] <ogra> foopl
[15:00] <NCommander> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2011/20110303
[15:00] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2011/20110303
[15:00] <NCommander> who's here?
[15:01] <NCommander> There are no standing action items
[15:01] <NCommander> [topic] http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/ubuntu-armel.html
[15:01] <MootBot> New Topic:  http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/ubuntu-armel.html
[15:01] <janimo> hellp
[15:01] <NCommander> ptopic] http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/ubuntu-armel-natty-alpha-3.html
[15:02] <rsalveti> help or hello? :P
[15:02] <ogra> lol
[15:02] <janimo> hello for now
[15:02] <janimo> it may beocme help later in the cycle ;)
[15:02]  * ogra was wondering exactly the same
[15:02] <rsalveti> :-)
[15:02] <GrueMaster> i'm not
[15:03] <ogra> geez, the overall Wi status looks scary
[15:03] <ogra> NCommander, the second link should be beta ;)
[15:03]  * NCommander grumbles
[15:03] <GrueMaster> It will be next week.
[15:04] <GrueMaster> This week is still Alpha 3.
[15:04] <ogra> heh
[15:04] <ogra> for some minutes
[15:04] <NCommander> no beta page doesn't exist
[15:04] <GrueMaster> And it's a good indicator of how we did.
[15:04] <janimo> for some reason 5 of my WIs were eaten by the parser and I cannot figure out why
[15:04] <ogra> http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/ubuntu-armel-ubuntu-11.04-beta.html
[15:04] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/ubuntu-armel-ubuntu-11.04-beta.html
[15:05] <ogra> nah
[15:05] <NCommander> I forgot to update teh WI tracker to postpone his WIs due to spec redesign. that's fixed now
[15:05] <rsalveti> janimo: haha, true: http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/u/jani-natty-alpha-3.html
[15:05] <ogra> looks broken
[15:05] <NCommander> anyway, can I move on?
[15:06] <NCommander> [topic] Unity 2D Status
[15:06] <MootBot> New Topic:  Unity 2D Status
[15:06]  * ogra glares at http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/
[15:06] <ogra> janimo, so whats needed to get us the hedless image ?
[15:06] <ogra> NCommander, no :P
[15:07] <NCommander> ogra: I need to land janimo's branch
[15:07] <GrueMaster> ogra: Can you save that for image status?
[15:07] <ogra> (why do we have an 11.05)
[15:07] <ogra> GrueMaster, still, there seems to be action needed to fix the WI tracker
[15:07] <NCommander> ogra: probably for Linaro
[15:07] <ogra> beta is broken completely
[15:07] <NCommander> [action] ogra to fix WI tracker
[15:07] <ogra> and there shouldnt be ubuntu-armel-11.05
[15:07] <MootBot> ACTION received:  ogra to fix WI tracker
[15:07] <GrueMaster> Beta hasn't started yet.
[15:08] <ogra> doesnt matter for the tracker
[15:08] <ogra> it just reports how the whiteboards are set
[15:08] <ogra> date has no influence
[15:08] <janimo> ogra, I don't know what else is needed, these build scripts are not well documented, let alone I am not working on the actual ones running the builds
[15:08] <janimo> so I hope NCommander spots any irregularities
[15:08] <ogra> action: everyone to check their WI status on the whiteboards that the right beta tag is set
[15:09] <ogra> NCommander, ^^^
[15:09] <janimo> or we try and if there are errors we fix after A3
[15:09] <NCommander> I had gotten sidetracked by mono and then alpha 3 to land the headless branch
[15:09] <ogra> i'll find out whats needed and we can do that offline
[15:09] <janimo> NCommander, sure np
[15:09] <NCommander> now can we get back on topic on Unity 2d Status?!
[15:09] <ogra> NCommander, right, please do that with high prio now that you are done with mono (assuming you are)
[15:10] <ogra> NCommander, if you would wait until getting an answer on the move request that would be easier
[15:10] <NCommander> ogra: I'm not, and I don't have a local d-cd instance to test. You may be better off landing the code
[15:10] <NCommander> ogra: I did wait, there wasn't a response either way.
[15:10] <ogra> can everyone please move the remaining a3 items on theit blueprints
[15:11] <ogra> *their
[15:11] <janimo> can anyone see why this whiteboard is not parsed correctly? https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-arm-n-handle-core-boot-files-update
[15:11] <ogra> we have 11 open items there
[15:11] <janimo> all those WIs are not showing up in the graphs
[15:12] <ogra> lets do that off meeting, to me it looks fine
[15:13] <ogra> NCommander, can you please add the above action
[15:13] <NCommander> [topic] Unity 2D Status
[15:13] <MootBot> New Topic:  Unity 2D Status
[15:13] <NCommander> [action] ogra + janimo to look at why WI don't appear on other-arm-n-handle-core-boot-files-update
[15:13] <MootBot> ACTION received:  ogra + janimo to look at why WI don't appear on other-arm-n-handle-core-boot-files-update
[15:13]  * ogra shakes head
[15:13] <ogra> <ogra> action: everyone to check their WI status on the whiteboards that the right beta tag is set
[15:13] <ogra> <ogra> NCommander, ^^
[15:13] <NCommander> grumble
[15:13] <ogra> jani and i dont need an action for that
[15:14] <NCommander> [action] everyone to check their WI status on the whiteboards that the right beta tag is set
[15:14] <MootBot> ACTION received:  everyone to check their WI status on the whiteboards that the right beta tag is set
[15:14] <ogra> thanks
[15:14] <ogra> move
[15:14] <NCommander> ogra: I did
[15:14] <ogra> premature again
[15:14] <ogra> well
[15:14] <ogra> it kind of works ...
[15:14] <ogra> thats all status i have, many bugs open, upstream is working on them
[15:14] <ogra> move
+[15:03] <NCommander> #startmeeting
[15:03] <MootBot> Meeting started at 09:03. The chair is NCommander.
[15:03] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[15:03] <ogra> moo
[15:03]  * rsalveti waves
[15:03] <NCommander> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2011/20110310
[15:03] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2011/20110310
[15:03] <janimo> hello
[15:03] <NCommander> so who's here?
[15:03] <rsalveti> I'm not
[15:03] <davidm> Hi
[15:04] <NCommander> [topic] Action Items
[15:04] <MootBot> New Topic:  Action Items
[15:04] <NCommander> [topic] ogra to fix WI tracker
[15:04] <MootBot> New Topic:  ogra to fix WI tracker
[15:04] <ogra> hmm, havent checked it yet, but it should be fine now
[15:05] <NCommander> [topic] everyone to check their WI status on the whiteboards that the right beta tag is set
[15:05] <MootBot> New Topic:  everyone to check their WI status on the whiteboards that the right beta tag is set
[15:05] <ogra> looks fine
[15:06] <ogra> NCommander, no beta WIs for you at all ?
[15:06] <ogra> everyone else seems to show up
[15:07] <NCommander> ogra: my one spec was axed because you, me,a nd persia agreed the design was unworkable for generic subarch support
[15:07] <ogra> well, i guess you still have enough mono to do ;)
[15:07] <NCommander> ...
[15:08] <NCommander> [topic] Standing Items
[15:08] <MootBot> New Topic:  Standing Items
[15:08] <NCommander> [link] http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/ubuntu-armel.html
[15:08] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/ubuntu-armel.html
[15:08] <NCommander> [link] http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/ubuntu-armel-ubuntu-11.04-beta-1.html
[15:08] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/ubuntu-armel-ubuntu-11.04-beta-1.html
[15:08] <rsalveti> most my WI related to GLES are basically waiting the implementation to finish
[15:08] <rsalveti> so no much to do
[15:08] <rsalveti> then just remain the others
[15:09] <rsalveti> webkit fix is now uploaded, and should hit the archive soon
[15:09] <rsalveti> then we can go back and use ubiquity with the slideshow
[15:09] <NCommander> rsalveti: once we have it confirmed fixed, I'll delete the livecd-rootfs hack
[15:09]  * ogra still cant remember what packageselection-arm-n-device-type-detection meant
[15:10] <rsalveti> NCommander: I tested already with a preinstalled image
[15:10] <ogra> err, the Wi i have for that
[15:10] <rsalveti> NCommander: and it worked fine, just need to wait it to build and hit the archive
[15:10] <rsalveti> and that will take between 1 and 2 days
[15:10] <ogra> persia, i think that was yours, could you somehow brief me again offline ?
[15:11] <NCommander> anything else on the WIs?
[15:12] <ogra> i wonder if we shouldnt remove the ppa cluster
[15:12] <ogra> davidm, ^^^
[15:12] <NCommander> ^- davidm
[15:12] <ogra> its totally not bound to release cycle but makes us look slightly bad
[15:12] <ogra> i think we're doing really great, but thanks to that spec the tracker doesnt really reflect that
[15:13] <rsalveti> it's not something that affect the release
[15:13] <ogra> yeah, thats what i mean
[15:13] <rsalveti> it's more a launchpad feature than ubuntu, in some way
[15:13] <NCommander> ogra: maybe simply target it to O cycle?
[15:14] <ogra> NCommander, right, something like that, but its davids spec and his decision
[15:14] <ogra> seems he's not around so lets move
[15:14] <ogra> we can clearify that later
[15:14] <NCommander> [topic] Unity 2D Status
[15:14] <MootBot> New Topic:  Unity 2D Status
[15:14] <ogra> will see an update before end of the week
[15:14] <NCommander> cool
[15:14] <ogra> lots of fixes in trunk we dont have in the image/archive yet
[15:15] <ogra> nothing new otherwise
[15:15] <NCommander> anything else?
[15:15] <ogra> not from me
-Line 126:
+Line 97:
-[15:15] <ogra> very bad from what i grokked from the mail discussion
[15:15] <rsalveti> for omap 3 one the master-next will get merged with 38-rc7 release
[15:15] <ogra> seems .38 exploded with the last rebase
[15:15] <rsalveti> now for omap 4 things are still bad
[15:15] <rsalveti> the current blocker issue is the mmc crash
[15:15] <rsalveti> as reported by cooloney
[15:16] <ogra> didnt he also talk about build issues ?
[15:16] <rsalveti> so this should be sorted this week, and probably merged at our ti-omap4-dev then
[15:16] <ogra> or are these solved
[15:16] <rsalveti> ogra: we got patches for that already
[15:16] <ogra> ah, good
[15:16] <ogra> seems i missed a mail
[15:16] <ogra> or two
[15:17] <rsalveti> but at least with current tests, it seems that it's kind of working well
[15:17] <ogra> plan is to move to .38 as soon as these are solved
[15:17] <rsalveti> yup
[15:17] <ogra> which means also trhat we'll lose .35
[15:17] <rsalveti> it'll be merged at ti-omap4-dev, then we'll request more testing
[15:17] <rsalveti> once it's ok, we'll pull as the default kernel for omap4
[15:17] <ogra> i was wondering if it would make sense to have an upload to canonical-arm-dev PPA
[15:17] <ogra> of the final .35 branch
[15:18] <ogra> so we have a fallback if .38 isnt usable at all during our work
[15:18] <rsalveti> we could create a public ppa for it, if needed
[15:18] <rsalveti> build at canonical-arm and then copy to the public one
[15:18] <ogra> i just thought to make sure we dont get blocked by it
[15:18] <ogra> seems to be not very rebase-safe to me atm
[15:18] <ogra> so it might explode again next rebase
[15:19] <GrueMaster> Well, if we are testing it on the side before making it default, we should catch most issues.
[15:19] <rsalveti> well, at least 38 is almost final already
[15:19] <rsalveti> GrueMaster: sure
[15:19] <ogra> right, mainline is
[15:19] <ogra> but the patches still look shaky
[15:19] <rsalveti> and will be for a while
[15:19] <ogra> right
[15:19] <rsalveti> we just need to test before pushing
[15:19] <rsalveti> then we should be ok
[15:19] <rsalveti> GrueMaster can be our go/no-go
[15:20] <GrueMaster> yep
[15:20] <ogra> i dont want to overload him though ;)
[15:20] <ogra> he is busy enough
[15:20] <rsalveti> not a lot to test
[15:20] <ogra> k
[15:20] <ogra> then lets drop the PPA idea
[15:20] <rsalveti> I don't expect a kernel update more than once a week
[15:20] <NCommander> can I move on?
[15:20] <GrueMaster> ogra: What say I make the call of how busy I am?
[15:20] <rsalveti> any other question?
[15:20] <ogra> you typed yep when i was still typing :)
[15:21] <NCommander> QA Status (GrueMaster)
[15:21] <NCommander> bah
[15:21] <NCommander> paste failure
[15:21] <NCommander> can I move on?
[15:21] <rsalveti> you're having serious problems with your paste
[15:21] <ogra> jep
[15:21] <NCommander> [topic] QA Status (GrueMaster)
[15:21] <MootBot> New Topic:  QA Status (GrueMaster)
[15:21] <NCommander> rsalveti: I've been thold this is proper behavior
[15:21] <rsalveti> hehe, then you're the issue
[15:21] <ogra> fix your palms ?
[15:22] <GrueMaster> Alpha 3 testing was brutal (again).  Made it through at the last minute.
[15:22] <ogra> or your fingers :)
[15:22] <ogra> GrueMaster, we werent the last ;)
[15:22] <ogra> kubuntu was respun this morning
[15:22] <rsalveti> and most important, we made it :-)
[15:22] <ogra> yeah
[15:22] <GrueMaster> It won't past muster.
[15:22] <ogra> awesome job !!!
[15:22] <ogra> GrueMaster, NCommander thanks for making it possible
[15:22] <GrueMaster> I also spot tested kubuntu last night.  It has more serious problems.
[15:23] <ogra> rsalveti, and thanls for the right suggestion at the right moment ;)
[15:23] <ogra> GrueMaster, kubuntu x86/amd64 was respun
[15:23] <rsalveti> ogra: haha :-)
[15:23] <GrueMaster> Oh.
[15:23] <ogra> not armel
[15:24] <GrueMaster> Well, armel was also respun by NCommander at my request.
[15:24] <ogra> oh, twice ?
[15:24] <ogra> i only saw 03 and no 03.1 when i tested
[15:24] <GrueMaster> Thought it may be also hung up by the same issue.  Turns out it has additional critical failure issues.
[15:24] <GrueMaster> Timing.
[15:24] <ogra> (or did you talk about kubuntu armel now)
[15:25] <GrueMaster> Yes.
[15:25] <ogra> ah, confusing :)
[15:25] <GrueMaster> We announced we were respinning in #u-release.
[15:25] <ogra> yeah
[15:25] <ogra> i thought you talked about netbook
[15:26] <ogra> (ubuntu)
[15:26] <GrueMaster> It would be far easier to understand what I was talking about if there were less interuptions.  I haven't stopped talking about kubuntu.
[15:27] <GrueMaster> At any rate, I have nothing constructive to add further.
[15:27] <GrueMaster> NCommander: move on, please.
[15:28] <NCommander> [topic] ARM Porting/FTBFS status (NCommander, janimo)
[15:28] <MootBot> New Topic:  ARM Porting/FTBFS status (NCommander, janimo)
[15:28] <NCommander> nothing new to report expect livecd-rootfs got a lobotomy to get a3 images out
[15:28] <janimo> getting better
[15:28] <NCommander> mono work still pending a3 release
[15:29] <NCommander> janimo: got anything else or can I move?
[15:29] <rsalveti> it should appear more gl/gles related bugs, now that more packages get updated
[15:29] <janimo> move
[15:29] <NCommander> [topic] ARM Image Status (ogra, NCommander)
[15:29] <rsalveti> for wrong usage or lack of proper detection
[15:29] <MootBot> New Topic:  ARM Image Status (ogra, NCommander)
[15:29] <ogra> A3 released
[15:29] <NCommander> We made A3. livecd-rootfs got a nasty hack due to webkit sucking
[15:29] <ogra> nothing else to report for existing images
[15:29] <ogra> NCommander, do you need any help with janis changes ?
[15:30] <rsalveti> I'm building webkit with gcc-4.4 to see if it could be related with the toolchain
[15:30] <NCommander> ogra: feel free to grab them and run with ARM Image Status (ogra, NCommander)
[15:30] <NCommander> them
[15:30] <NCommander> %$#W@!!~
[15:30] <rsalveti> but webkit in general is completely broken
[15:30] <NCommander> what I need is to take Xorg apart
[15:30] <rsalveti> and gcc can't help on it
[15:30] <ogra> so its an internal webik error ?
[15:30] <ogra> thats bad
[15:30] <ogra> especially if we cant blame the toolchain
[15:31] <rsalveti> yup, we'll see
[15:31] <janimo> rsalveti, , I saw PPA builds of webkit failed
[15:31] <NCommander> rsalveti: I recommend you prepare the approicate sacarifies to the debugging gods
[15:31] <rsalveti> janimo: that's fine, armel is still building
[15:31] <rsalveti> I forgot that the ppa also builds for other arches
[15:31] <ogra> yeah, who cares about exotic arches like x86 anyway
[15:31] <rsalveti> yup :-)
[15:31] <GrueMaster> I do when the build failures start spamming me.
[15:32] <rsalveti> sorry about that :-)
[15:32] <NCommander> we should have some sorta nice porting team to assign bugs to when x86 breaks since hardware is so scare :-)
[15:32] <ogra> procmail ftw ;)
[15:32] <ogra> NCommander, good idea ! propose that to davidm
[15:32] <ogra> ;)
[15:32] <ogra> so he can bring it up to the managers
[15:33] <NCommander> [action] NCommander to draft and formalize x86 porting team proposal
[15:33] <MootBot> ACTION received:  NCommander to draft and formalize x86 porting team proposal
[15:33]  * ogra has nothing else 
[15:33] <NCommander> */silly off*
[15:33] <NCommander> [topic] AOB
[15:33] <MootBot> New Topic:  AOB
[15:34] <ogra> i held a talk at UDD ...
[15:34] <ogra> got some nice positive feedback and actually the hour was filled with questions (i only talked for 10min or so)
[15:35] <ogra> seems there is good community interest in arm
[15:35] <ogra> ..
[15:35] <ogra> err UDW, sorry
[15:35] <NCommander> ogra: watch your TLAs :-)
[15:35]  * janimo waits for Daniel to post the daily summary links and I'll check out the transcript
[15:35] <ogra> heh
[15:35] <rsalveti> yeah, saw that, quite nice we had so many people interested on it
[15:36] <NCommander> I'm probably going to be out the rest of the morning and possibly early afternoon
[15:36] <NCommander> I got a grand total of 45 minutes of sleep
[15:36] <NCommander> >.<;
[15:36] <ogra> yeah, get some lseep
[15:36] <janimo> lslepp
[15:36] <NCommander> plan on it
[15:36] <janimo> as in long sleep
[15:36] <ogra> you well earned a break ;)
[15:36] <NCommander> anyway
[15:36] <NCommander> Anyting else
[15:36] <NCommander> else
[15:36] <NCommander> closingin the meeting in 5
[15:36] <janimo> calendar is helpful, just got an email reminding me of this meeting
[15:36] <ogra> nope
[15:36] <NCommander> 4
[15:36] <NCommander> 3
[15:36] <NCommander> 2
[15:37] <NCommander> 1
[15:37] <ogra> janimo, fix your timezone ;)
[15:37] <NCommander> @endmeeting
[15:37] <NCommander> #endmeeting
+[15:15] <ogra> where is our .38 build ?
[15:16] <ogra> i thought GrueMaster approved it
[15:16] <rsalveti> no other news beside the same package from last week that GrueMaster tested
[15:16] <davidm> I pulled the PPA cluster from the timeline
[15:16] <ogra> davidm, thanks :)
[15:16] <davidm> and removed it from natty entirely
[15:16] <GrueMaster> I did.
[15:16] <ogra> move it to O
[15:16] <davidm> I did  that weeks and weeks ago
[15:16] <rsalveti> GrueMaster reported back to cooloney, but now it'd probably be good to reply the email thread saying we want it by default
[15:16] <ogra> it makes us look good from the beginning :)
[15:16] <rsalveti> and change the boot.scr arguments, to use the DVI output
[15:16] <ogra> ah, right
[15:16] <GrueMaster> I did that as well (I think).
[15:17] <ogra> rsalveti, how will we handle upgrades =
[15:17] <davidm> ogra, it's it's still showing up let me know what I need to do to remove it entirely
[15:17] <ogra> we still have no solution for that
[15:17] <GrueMaster> email that is.
[15:17] <ogra> yes, i saw GrueMaster's mail
[15:17] <ogra> i dont think there should be any blocker
[15:17] <ogra> statement was clear
[15:17] <rsalveti> no, and we could just do the switch
[15:17] <rsalveti> for the update I believe we could just document it for now
[15:18] <rsalveti> otherwise we would need to hack the boot args
[15:18] <rsalveti> but the user will need to change the cable anyway
[15:18] <ogra> yes, i actually did expect tim had done it after GrueMaster's mail
[15:18] <rsalveti> yup, that's whay it may need another email requesting it
[15:19] <ogra> well, i'll use IRC ;)
[15:19]  * ogra pinged tim
[15:19] <rsalveti> :-)
[15:19] <ogra> i still would like to have a proper upgrade path though
[15:19] <rsalveti> GrueMaster: anything to report for the kernel tests?
[15:19]  * janimo is running the 2.6.38-1024-omap4 kernel from PPA, looks fine after a few days
[15:19] <rsalveti> yeah, it'd be good to have
[15:20] <ogra> i.e. some message from update-manager "please plug your cable into the dvi port after reboot"
[15:20] <janimo> headless only though, mostly building workloads
[15:20] <ogra> thats the least we should have
[15:20] <rsalveti> ogra: yup, that can be changed at the package itself?
[15:20] <rsalveti> like a postinst?
[15:20] <ogra> there is a script in u-m somewhere
[15:21] <ogra> we added a warning for ARMv5 vs v6 between karmic and jaunty
[15:21] <rsalveti> ogra: ok, so should we wait this to be done before putting it as default?
[15:21] <rsalveti> I can dig to see what was done
[15:21] <ogra> dyfet was actually supposed to add a v7 warning too and never managed
[15:21] <GrueMaster> This is only temporary though, right?
[15:21] <ogra> i think that can happen hand in hand
[15:21] <rsalveti> it shuold be
[15:21] <ogra> GrueMaster, we dont know if it will be solved by release
[15:21] <rsalveti> before the release we want to use hdmi again
[15:22] <rsalveti> and have a proper driver
[15:22] <ogra> sure
[15:22] <ogra> but we dont have it at all yet
[15:22] <rsalveti> no, and not completely sure if TI will manage to implemente the hdmi driver
[15:23] <rsalveti> but that's another problem
[15:23] <ogra> so at least being prepared for such a warning in u-m before string freeze is needed
[15:23] <ogra> we can still drop it
[15:23] <rsalveti> ok, will look to have it
[15:23] <ogra> ok, kernel switch triggered, tim is building it now
[15:23] <rsalveti> awesome
[15:23] <rsalveti> any other question for kernel?
[15:23] <ogra> (seems he missed GrueMaster's mail)
[15:23] <davidm> outstanding
[15:24] <rsalveti> ogra: guess he was waiting the reply at the pull request email
[15:24] <ogra> GrueMaster, use a <blink> tag in the subject line in the future ;)
[15:24]  * NCommander is having chromium stability issues this morning :-(
[15:24] <NCommander> [topic] ARM Porting/FTBFS status (NCommander, janimo)
[15:24] <MootBot> New Topic:  ARM Porting/FTBFS status (NCommander, janimo)
[15:24] <GrueMaster> Interesting.  We even discussed it on IRC.
[15:25] <ogra> GrueMaster, but you didnt use <blink> there either :P
[15:25] <janimo> some progress on FTBFS count
[15:25] <NCommander> So on ARM porting, I'm kinda grinding my gears w.r.t. to mono
[15:25] <janimo> closed a few arm-porting-queue tagged bugs
[15:25] <NCommander> We've gotthe SMP patch which does wonders for the mono 2.10 test suite (and was incorperated in the 2.10.1 release)
[15:25] <ogra> NCommander, do we need to send Tobin some earplugs ?
[15:25] <janimo> including the two outstanding Qt ones (pending a test for neon still)
[15:26] <NCommander> but I'm not making any headway with a successful backport to 2.6, I think the underlying mono crashes are coming from PInvoke() failures in Gtk#
[15:26] <NCommander> but it seems odd to me that they're over occuring in 1-processor mode
[15:27] <janimo> NCommander, can we just apply the membarrier patch to 2.6 and do an upload, if it is clearly needed even if does not seem to direclty impact banshee?
[15:27] <NCommander> I was able to produce the same failures on Debian sid, so at least I've ruled out thumb2 as the immediate cause
[15:27] <ogra> we could just quickly rewrite banshee in C :)
[15:27] <NCommander> janimo: I can do that, but I don't really want to do multiple mono uploads
[15:28] <NCommander> janimo: are you sure banshee fully worked when in nosmp mode? Its slightly more stable, but trying to do anything like play music or rescan library causes a crash
[15:28] <NCommander> (also, f-spot is still crashing)
[15:28] <ogra> luckily we dont ship f-spot anymore since maverick
[15:28] <janimo> NCommander, no I am not sure at all. rsalveti and GrueMaster looked at nosmp testing in more detail
[15:28] <ogra> how is tomboy
[15:28] <NCommander> ogra: its still a valid test case
[15:28] <NCommander> ogra: tomboy works
[15:28] <GrueMaster> Tomboy never failed.
[15:28] <ogra> we usually had it working while all other apps failed
[15:29] <ogra> right
[15:29] <NCommander> rsalveti: ^- banshee nosmp question
[15:29] <GrueMaster> My guess is that it is not multithreaded.
[15:29] <janimo> The bug is probably in mono but some apps manage to not trigger it
[15:29] <NCommander> janimo: well, that's why I think its pinvoke()
[15:29] <janimo> depending on how Gtk intesive they are
[15:29] <ogra> tomboy is really trivial indeed
[15:29] <NCommander> (for reference sake, pinvoke is the magic C# to C binding)
[15:29] <rsalveti> I just tested with banshee
[15:29] <janimo> NCommander, IIRc in Dallas I managed to get stable banshee if I uninstalled the default theme
[15:29] <janimo> and using some ghetto default
[15:30] <janimo> gtk theme that is
[15:30] <NCommander> janimo: doesn't work here, I have it using no theme and still crash city
[15:30] <NCommander> rsalveti: right, but what did you do in banshee beside launch it?
[15:30] <rsalveti> NCommander: use it normally, playing music and such
[15:30] <janimo> nothing, look at the About menu :)
[15:30] <GrueMaster> NCommander: I played audio for a good hour on my BeagleXM
[15:30] <rsalveti> yeah, it was quite stable
[15:30] <NCommander> grumble
[15:31] <NCommander> I guess I need to run the test suite in nosmp mode and see if we still get failures or if we're looking at a red hearing
[15:31] <janimo> GrueMaster, never had crash recently on single core?
[15:31] <GrueMaster> Could be we are seeing multiple issues.
[15:31] <NCommander> What's making things difficult w.r.t. to backporting is the JIT is passing all the tests
[15:31] <NCommander> And between 2.6 -> 2.10, someone added iPhone support
[15:31] <NCommander> which means there's a TON of commits clogging up the works
[15:31] <rsalveti> ouch :-(
[15:32] <NCommander> plus I'm not even sure mono is fixed in 2.10 since I can't run banshee without spending a week recompiling the entire stack
[15:32] <rsalveti> argh, problem of using a quite old version
[15:32] <NCommander> (I'm semi-tempted to throw Gentoo ina  chroot and test it that way)
[15:32] <janimo> NCommander, right, when I looked I could find may arm commits but nothing which wuld imply it fixes some tests
[15:32] <NCommander> janimo: I'm almost thinking it probably got improved as part of the iPhon10:30:37 < janimo> nothing, look at the About menu :)
[15:32] <NCommander> 10:30:49 < GrueMaster> NCommander: I played audio for a good hour on my  BeagleXM
[15:32] <NCommander> 10:31:02 < rsalveti> yeah, it was quite stable
[15:32] <janimo> NCommander, or Suse or any distro with new mono I guess
[15:32] <NCommander> &^%$@$!#
[15:32] <janimo> ah they may not have arm
[15:32] <NCommander> janimo: SuSE doesn't have an ARM port
[15:33] <rsalveti> fedora?
[15:33] <NCommander> hrm
[15:33]  * NCommander looks
[15:33] <janimo> probably not very wdely tested
[15:33] <rsalveti> or OE
[15:33] <GrueMaster> Fedora has an arm port in the works (I think).
[15:33] <rsalveti> but then don't know if they are building banshee and mono
[15:34] <rsalveti> there is a mono recipe at OE, but 2.6.3
[15:34] <ogra> doesnt OE even default to hardfloat ?
[15:34] <NCommander> they've got banshee available for Fedora
[15:35] <ogra> that should have build options close to ours (v7 thumb2)
[15:35] <rsalveti> don't think they already changed it
[15:35] <NCommander> ogra: I already elimated v7+thumb2 as the cause of the regression
[15:35] <NCommander> bah
[15:35] <NCommander> Fedora is shipping 2.6 still
[15:35] <rsalveti> argh
[15:35] <rsalveti> who is using 2.10?
[15:35] <rsalveti> opensuse only?
[15:35] <ogra> megoo ?
[15:35] <NCommander> checking
[15:35] <ogra> did anyone check there
[15:35] <NCommander> ogra: no
[15:36] <janimo> various IPhone and Android 3rd partuy apps maybe
[15:36] <NCommander> ogra: but its of limited use. the problem is the entire dependency stack
[15:36] <NCommander> Might simply need to build a chroot then build mono + gtksharp + everything else from scratch
[15:36]  * NCommander wimpers
[15:36]  * GrueMaster votes to bag mono for this cycle - again.
[15:36] <NCommander> but I think we need to confirm 2.10 is regression free
[15:36] <rsalveti> GrueMaster: it'd be nice to have
[15:36] <janimo> NCommander, does C# have the equivalent of inline functions, so Gtk sharp has some bits unless rebuilt against a new mono, even if we upload a fixed mono?
[15:36] <ogra> GrueMaster, that means we need to take over rhythmbox mainteanance
[15:36] <rsalveti> and it seems we're getting closer somehow
[15:37] <NCommander> janimo: nout out of the box
[15:37] <NCommander> at least
[15:37] <NCommander> I don't think so
[15:37] <NCommander> janimo: I know the official Microsoftimplementation can make native code .exe's
[15:37] <NCommander> I don't know if mono embeds native code into the generated PE files
[15:37] <GrueMaster> NCommander: Instead of trying to build it locally, should it go in a ppa?
[15:38] <NCommander> GrueMaster: repackaging mono for 2.10 would be an absolute nightmare
[15:38] <NCommander> and I'm not confortable in my packaging skills to try it
[15:38] <janimo> NCommander, well it is packaged for Deb as you said, just too risky to sync at this point
[15:39] <NCommander> janimo: its not uploaded, the transition is sitll in progress
[15:39] <janimo> I say we should keep debugging (I will help as well) and only keep Rhythmbox if we cannot fix it say 2 weeks before release
[15:39] <ogra> and what would we gain ? we cant upload it at all without affecting the other arches
[15:40] <ogra> 2.10 is clearly not natty for the others
[15:40] <NCommander> ogra: right, but we need to make sure that 2.10 is fixed. At the very release, O cycle which we could ship 2.10 will work
[15:40] <ogra> sure
[15:40] <NCommander> if we know 2.10 works, then we can bisect, and deal with all the iphoneos patches
[15:40] <NCommander> but I don't want to deal with that without a "verification-confirmed" in hand :-P
[15:41] <rsalveti> yeah, we need to test with 2.10
[15:41] <rsalveti> or git upstream
[15:41] <NCommander> I'll work with git, since I at least have been making progress with mono upstream devs :-)
[15:41] <NCommander> actually
[15:41] <rsalveti> well, it should work :-)
[15:41]  * NCommander checks gentoo very quickly
[15:41] <NCommander> if I can do 'emerge banshee' and let it run for a day, I'd be happy
[15:42] <janimo> NCommander, so gentoo has good arm support?
[15:42] <rsalveti> Nafallo: http://packages.gentoo.org/package/dev-lang/mono
[15:42]  * ogra would suspect OE to be easier
[15:42] <NCommander> oh right, nuts
[15:42] <NCommander> gentoo's ARM port is kinda ...
[15:42] <GrueMaster> If I may, we don't want to throw all or even most of our engineering effort at one package.  We have enough other stuff that is in the image that needs attention.
[15:42] <rsalveti> janimo: it would be easier to have an arm rootfs
[15:42] <NCommander> in the same state as its m68k port
[15:42] <janimo> NCommander, one of the mono arm devs is from Budapest, worst case we track him down at UDS and let him fix this :)
[15:43] <rsalveti> Nafallo: sorry
[15:43] <rsalveti> NCommander: http://packages.gentoo.org/package/dev-lang/mono
[15:43] <rsalveti> 2.10.1-r1
[15:43] <NCommander> davidm: I think a bit of direction is needed: how high is mono on the priority list
[15:43]  * Nafallo steps away from the gentoo.
[15:43] <rsalveti> and banshee 1.8.1
[15:43] <Nafallo> no worries
[15:43] <NCommander> rsalveti: right but its masked to powerpc/amd64/i386 only. There's an armel overlay but this is leading to the path to madness
[15:43]  * ogra guesses the banshee shop is pretty high
[15:43] <rsalveti> argh, no easy path
[15:44] <NCommander> rsalveti: right, so best bet is to simply try and build mono stack by hand and pray
[15:44] <rsalveti> yeah
[15:44] <ogra> NCommander, really, take OE
[15:44] <janimo> GrueMaster, well I mean since our WIs seem to be getting close to solved and we get into more bugfixing mode, this is one important bug. Of course we should see if there are other more important issues
[15:44] <NCommander> [action] NCommander to build mono stack by hand and confirm 2.10 fixes mono regression
[15:44] <MootBot> ACTION received:  NCommander to build mono stack by hand and confirm 2.10 fixes mono regression
[15:44] <NCommander> ogra: looking at OE, I don't even see a package list
[15:45] <janimo> NCommander, but debian arm does not experience this crash een on 2.6 ?
[15:45] <rsalveti> ogra: mono is still 2.6
[15:45] <rsalveti> so he would first need to update the mono recipe
[15:45] <rsalveti> and that can take the same amount of work as updating the ubuntu package by hand
[15:45] <NCommander> janimo: no, it does
[15:46] <NCommander> rsalveti: I was able to reproduce the crash in a Sid chroot with the SMP patch
[15:47] <janimo> NCommander, great than. I had the impression we were special because of ARMv7 and newer toolchain
[15:47] <NCommander> janimo: its probably a good idea to have someone double check my results to make sure I made no error
[15:47] <janimo> NCommander, do we absolutely rule out hw errors
[15:47] <janimo> panda kernel/memory stuff
[15:47] <NCommander> janimo: mono devs did report they don't see issues on tegra
[15:48] <NCommander> although I'm blocking if that's SMP or not
[15:48] <janimo> that is SMP AFAIK
[15:48] <ogra> all tegra2 cpus are multicore
[15:48] <NCommander> my tegra system is currently got a trashed install on it
[15:48] <GrueMaster> Was it tegra or tegra 2?
[15:48] <NCommander> ogra: can you easy test banshee?
[15:48] <ogra> only on maverick
[15:48] <NCommander> oh, argh
[15:48] <ogra> i cant upgrade to natty
[15:48] <NCommander> ogra: we had the issue with maverick I believe
[15:49] <NCommander> ^as well
[15:49] <janimo> ogra, it used to fail on maverick too so ok
[15:49] <GrueMaster> Yes, we did.
[15:49] <ogra> right, what would a test on tegra improve here ?
[15:49] <NCommander> [action] ogra to determine if mono still crashes on tegra
[15:49] <ogra> for maverick
[15:49] <MootBot> ACTION received:  ogra to determine if mono still crashes on tegra
[15:49] <NCommander> ogra: rules out panda HW.
[15:49] <ogra> k
[15:49] <rsalveti> well, mono version from maverick is quite the same
[15:49] <NCommander> you probably need the SMP patch
[15:50] <rsalveti> NCommander: don't you also have a ac100 in hands?
[15:50] <NCommander> rsalveti: the install is trashed
[15:50] <rsalveti> hehe :-)
[15:50] <GrueMaster> Best to fail first, then test the fix.
[15:50] <ogra> yeah, and restoring an SD takes 10mins
[15:51] <rsalveti> wrong window
[15:51] <NCommander> right, we're running out of time
[15:51] <NCommander> so lets take this offline
[15:51] <ogra> ++
[15:51] <rsalveti> yup, move
[15:51] <NCommander> [topic] ARM Image Status (ogra, NCommander)
[15:51] <MootBot> New Topic:  ARM Image Status (ogra, NCommander)
[15:51] <ogra> headless is there !!!
[15:51] <ogra> :)
[15:51] <NCommander> go ogra + janimo
[15:51] <rsalveti> \o/
[15:52] <GrueMaster> Needs work, but it is booting.
[15:52] <ogra> bug 732576 needs some testing for the fis
[15:52] <ubottu> Launchpad bug 732576 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Natty) "oem-config-debconf does not start on preinstalled images" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/732576
[15:52] <ogra> *fix
[15:52] <ogra> should be in the next ubiquity upload, i'll test the fix after meeting
[15:52] <ogra> serial by default is still miissing
[15:53] <davidm> NCommander, sorry was pulled away on a call
[15:53] <ogra> and to make GrueMaster happy i hardcoded "localhost" as hostname for all preinstalled images today ;)
[15:53] <davidm> mono is important
[15:54] <ogra> Bug 732581 is an intresting one
[15:54] <NCommander> davidm: not a problem
[15:54] <ubottu> Launchpad bug 732581 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Natty) "oem-config colormap distorted during package removal in oem-config-debconf on omap4 preinstalled images" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/732581
[15:54] <NCommander> davidm: ok, just wanted to make sure I wasjustified to continue working on it
[15:54] <davidm> NCommander, we need to fix it, if at all possible
[15:54] <ogra> i would like to see someone test on a beagle
[15:54] <GrueMaster> ogra: Will do later this am.
[15:54] <ogra> since i'm not sure its the panda framebuffer being broken here
[15:55] <ogra> GrueMaster, just wait for the next build, that shuld also have the ubiquity-dm fix so you dont need to tinker with the image
[15:55] <GrueMaster> k
[15:56] <ogra> headless will be the first image to build every day, ist also the fastest build (shoudl be available at 00:30 UTC)
[15:56] <ogra> so we can easily test core bits before netbook gets built
[15:56] <GrueMaster> Especially if netbook crashes.
[15:57] <ogra> yep
[15:57] <rsalveti> awesome
[15:57] <janimo> NCommander, to avoid building the whole stack of mono, you may first build banshee from source too with a minimal set of dependencies and plugins which still lead to crash
[15:57] <ogra> its a good measure
[15:57] <ogra> .. done with image status
[15:57] <NCommander> janimo: I'm going to follow the instructions on the website to build banshee
[15:57] <NCommander> [topic] QA Status (GrueMaster)
[15:57] <MootBot> New Topic:  QA Status (GrueMaster)
[15:58] <NCommander> janimo: I don't think it will be TOO bad
[15:58] <GrueMaster> Documented installation process at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM/HeadlessInstall
[15:58] <janimo> NCommander, ok, I now it has lots of plugins enabled as it is
[15:58] <ogra> meh
[15:58] <GrueMaster> For the minimal image.
[15:58] <NCommander> janimo: almost all ship with banshee
[15:58] <ogra> GrueMaster, can you follow the naming scheme thats on /OMAP
[15:59] <ogra> since thats what we link from the image download pages
[15:59] <GrueMaster> ogra: I left it this way in case we start building more images for other platforms next cycle.  Reduce wiki clutter.
[15:59] <janimo> NCommander, right. I mean if there are plugins written in C# which now ship, but which if disabled still crash banshee, those you don;t need to include in the full rebuild
[15:59] <ogra> GrueMaster, well, it should be linked from /OMAP and have a releasename in the url
[15:59] <NCommander> janimo: fair enough
[16:00]  * GrueMaster waits for mono discussion to finish.
[16:00] <GrueMaster> ogra: This was also just a first run.
[16:00] <janimo> uh sorry, I brought it up again
[16:01] <GrueMaster> Time's up.
[16:01] <ogra> GrueMaster, yeah https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM/OMAP links to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM/OMAPMaverickInstall and should also link to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM/OMAPNattyInstall ...
[16:01]  * NCommander can't remember if we're running into another meeting
[16:01] <ogra> make the headless instructions a link on the natty one
[16:01] <NCommander> [topic] Any Other Business
[16:01] <MootBot> New Topic:  Any Other Business
[16:01] <NCommander> (very quickly :-))
[16:01] <ogra> NCommander, finish, we can take the rest offline
[16:02] <NCommander> #endmeeting
[16:02] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:02.
-Line 293:
+Line 412:
- * ogra to fix WI tracker
 * everyone to check their WI status on the whiteboards that the right beta tag is set
+ * NCommander to build mono stack by hand and confirm 2.10 fixes mono regression
 * ogra to determine if mono still crashes on tegra
-Line 300:
+Line 419:
+== Tobin Davis (GrueMaster) ==
 * Testing of items held over until Alpha 3 release done
   * Kernel 2.6.38 for omap4 - looks good so far, no hangs or oops
   * Tested kernel to fix jvm issues on buildd's (babbage)
   * Closed several older bugs that are no longer reproducible in current or past release images.
   * Mono patch testing
 * More unity-2d testing and bug filing
 * Tested preliminary build of headless image
   * Documented installation process at [[ARM/HeadlessInstall]]

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