#title #ubuntu-accessibility Meeting Meeting started by Pendulum at 21:01:03 UTC. The full logs are available at http://mootbot.libertus.co.uk/ubuntu-accessibility/2011/ubuntu-accessibility.2011-01-19-21.01.log.html . == Meeting summary == *Status Update on Personas ''ACTION:'' AlanBell to contact Charline and/or doctormo about software for doing the finished design of personas (Pendulum, 21:08:35) *Development Status Update *Ubuntu Accessibility Team Blog ''ACTION:'' Pendulum to write intro blog post (Pendulum, 21:21:13) ''ACTION:'' AlanBell to write personas blog post for week of Jan 26, 2011 (Pendulum, 21:21:43) ''ACTION:'' MichelleQ to write blog post for week of Feb 2, 2011 (Pendulum, 21:22:42) ''ACTION:'' charlie-tca to write blog post on testing for week of Feb 9, 2011 (Pendulum, 21:24:36) ''ACTION:'' TheMuso to write a blog post on indicators for week of Feb 16, 2011 (Pendulum, 21:27:48) *Status on Testing, Bugs, and Prep for Testing *Brief Intro to SpeechControl ''LINK:'' https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SpeechControl. (hajour, 21:44:14) ''LINK:'' https://www.launchpad.net/~speechcontrolteam (JackyAlcine, 21:59:58) *Any Other Business Meeting ended at 22:14:18 UTC. == Votes == == Action items == * AlanBell to contact Charline and/or doctormo about software for doing the finished design of personas * Pendulum to write intro blog post * AlanBell to write personas blog post for week of Jan 26, 2011 * MichelleQ to write blog post for week of Feb 2, 2011 * charlie-tca to write blog post on testing for week of Feb 9, 2011 * TheMuso to write a blog post on indicators for week of Feb 16, 2011 == Action items, by person == * AlanBell ** AlanBell to contact Charline and/or doctormo about software for doing the finished design of personas ** AlanBell to write personas blog post for week of Jan 26, 2011 * charlie-tca ** charlie-tca to write blog post on testing for week of Feb 9, 2011 * MichelleQ ** MichelleQ to write blog post for week of Feb 2, 2011 * Pendulum ** Pendulum to write intro blog post * TheMuso ** TheMuso to write a blog post on indicators for week of Feb 16, 2011 == People present (lines said) == * Pendulum (90) * TheMuso (70) * AlanBell (28) * JackyAlcine (26) * hajour (25) * charlie-tca (21) * MichelleQ (15) * meetingology (14) * erkan^ (3) == Full Log == 21:01:03 #startmeeting 21:01:03 Meeting started Wed Jan 19 21:01:03 2011 UTC. The chair is Pendulum. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell. 21:01:03 Useful Commands: #topic #action #link #idea #voters #vote #chair #action #agreed #help #info #endmeeting. 21:01:11 o/ 21:01:19 * charlie-tca seems to be here 21:01:34 Good timing too, just finished breakfast. :) 21:01:40 can everyone else who is here just give a handraise or something :) 21:01:43 o/ 21:02:35 okay agenda can be found at: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Accessibility/Team/MeetingAgenda 21:03:05 I'm sorry we've not had a meeting in over 2 months, I was ill and just didn't get around to getting one organised. 21:03:17 first item 21:03:27 #topic Status Update on Personas 21:03:27 TOPIC: Status Update on Personas 21:03:43 I know AlanBell has been working on personas and that hajour and others have helped 21:03:53 yup 21:03:53 AlanBell: what's the current plan of attack? 21:04:03 ok, so faisal is pretty much done 21:04:13 needs to be released to the world 21:04:31 I was going to put it in a blog post with an explaination of the whole project 21:04:48 and also do a glossy PDF of it to match the Canonical ones 21:05:06 I had a go at that in inkscape, but I am not sure it is the right tool for the job 21:05:49 then we will go through the other personas and bring them up to the same standards 21:06:46 AlanBell: maybe e-mail Charline for suggestions on what they've used for the official design team personas software-wise? 21:07:02 good idea 21:07:21 although I have a fear that it will be something proprietary 21:07:28 the other person who might have an idea is doctormo 21:07:35 or he might know how to make inkscape do it 21:07:40 really good idea 21:07:57 AlanBell: can I give it to you as an action item? 21:08:04 yes 21:08:35 #action AlanBell to contact Charline and/or doctormo about software for doing the finished design of personas 21:08:35 * meetingology AlanBell to contact Charline and/or doctormo about software for doing the finished design of personas 21:08:56 is there anything else personas related that needs to be discussed? 21:09:43 not from me 21:10:09 anyoen else? 21:11:10 nope 21:11:17 great 21:11:20 next item 21:11:38 #topic Development Status Update 21:11:38 TOPIC: Development Status Update 21:11:41 Ok development can be summed up in a few points: 21:11:51 * api from egalia is helping with unity atk work at the low level. 21:12:05 Rodrigo from Canonical is helping with unity panel a11y work. 21:12:52 My focus is the platform experience as a whole, focusing on people who use screen readers and magnificatino, but where possible, advising for other disabilities as well. Be sure I'll be asking here if there are questions I cannot answer for such disability groups. 21:13:34 Unity itself has low level atk work partially complete. SOme work is still ongoing with unity and the nux toolkit to retrieve needed information about some nux widgts via unity. Focusing of launcher icons et al is also in progress. 21:13:46 Keyboard navigation is being worked on by someone in DX, and should be finished shortly. 21:13:55 great :) 21:14:01 sounds like good progress 21:14:21 TheMuso: are they just using onboard for now as the onscreen keyboard (I got confused when there was a UDS session about on screen keyboards, but no decision) 21:14:30 I need to have a look at the launcher this next week and from the work thats done so far, try and make a design proposal as to how accessibility behavior should happen. Not too sure about thsi myself actually, just got an email about that this morning. 21:14:45 Pendulum: onboard is staying where it is for now. 21:15:19 let us know if there's anything anyone here can do to help! 21:15:19 As to other things I am looking at, there is improving indicator accessibility which is currently in progress, as well as improving the entire desktop a11y experience where possible. 21:15:45 This means that I am looking at getting the latest evince in for PDF accessibility, and I am working closely with the orca folk to make sure webkit support is in tip top shape. 21:16:00 I'm ready for testing, whenever it gets to that point. :-) 21:16:02 Pendulum: Will do, but I think things are well in hand atm. 21:16:07 great :) 21:16:17 Right, hoefully we will have something that more users can test in the coming weeks. 21:16:38 The code is still fresh and somewhat unstable though I believe, haven't tried it myself yet, but I will be looking at that today. 21:16:47 just holler when you're ready. :-) 21:16:54 Will do, don't worry. 21:17:11 It will likely be announced once a new release with the accessibility bits is made into natty proper. 21:17:13 * Pendulum suspects that there will be proclomations from the rooftops when we can start testing ;-) 21:17:25 Yup. 21:17:34 :-D 21:17:55 Thats all from me. 21:18:00 great 21:18:22 #topic Ubuntu Accessibility Team Blog 21:18:22 TOPIC: Ubuntu Accessibility Team Blog 21:18:41 we now have a blog at http://ubuntuaccessibility.wordpress.com/ 21:18:48 it has nothing on it 21:18:51 Pendulum: awesome! 21:19:02 We're on wordpress so that it's easy for me to add people who can work on it 21:19:03 well, not that it's empty, but you know 21:19:42 I'm going to try to get it added to planet and an intro post up this week 21:19:54 let me know if you want help keeping it up 21:19:56 after that, I'd love it if we could get a blog post a week on it 21:20:42 so if we could schedule people to be in charge of a week between now and our next meeting (which should be February 16th), that would be great 21:20:50 I know I've got this week 21:21:01 I think AlanBell has already started writing something on personas for next week 21:21:07 yes 21:21:09 I'll take the next, if you can give me some guidance on topic 21:21:13 #action Pendulum to write intro blog post 21:21:13 * meetingology Pendulum to write intro blog post 21:21:43 #action AlanBell to write personas blog post for week of Jan 26, 2011 21:21:43 * meetingology AlanBell to write personas blog post for week of Jan 26, 2011 21:22:21 MichelleQ: if you take that week, we can figure out later what you'll write on, does that work? 21:22:26 yup 21:22:27 :D 21:22:42 #action MichelleQ to write blog post for week of Feb 2, 2011 21:22:42 * meetingology MichelleQ to write blog post for week of Feb 2, 2011 21:22:54 Oh, I know... I can do something about the necessity of accessibility, if you'd like 21:22:58 okay, we've got 2 more weeks to fill 21:23:00 MichelleQ: sounds great 21:23:11 charlie-tca: would you like to do something on testing for one of those weeks? 21:23:23 Okay, I can try to 21:23:33 I am the worst there is at blogs 21:23:48 charlie-tca: I'm happy to look over anything before it gets posted 21:23:57 I update mine regularly, every couple of years when I re-write the website 21:24:07 charlie-tca: so can you do the week of feb 9th? 21:24:12 okay 21:24:36 #action charlie-tca to write blog post on testing for week of Feb 9, 2011 21:24:36 * meetingology charlie-tca to write blog post on testing for week of Feb 9, 2011 21:24:54 okay, one more week. Who else is interested in writing a post? 21:25:11 charlie-tca: I'll help ya, too 21:25:39 Also, I'm happy to look at posts for people before they go up for things like spelling and grammar ;-) 21:25:52 So don't be shy if you're not a native English speaker 21:26:50 I should probably do one week, to talk about indicators, and how they are better than systray icons accessibility wise. 21:27:13 TheMuso: so can you take the week of Feb 16? I think that puts it after alpha2 21:27:15 Particularly since I have a few plans regarding indicators, orca, and retrieving information from them. 21:27:25 Yep should be able to do that. 21:27:48 #action TheMuso to write a blog post on indicators for week of Feb 16, 2011 21:27:48 * meetingology TheMuso to write a blog post on indicators for week of Feb 16, 2011 21:28:03 great, so that puts us up until the next meeting :) 21:28:49 Anyone else who is interested in writing for the blog at any point just let me or AlanBell know as we currently can either add people so they can do their own posts directly in or can post for you 21:28:57 sounds perfect. :-) 21:29:36 Is there anything else blog related that anyone wants to bring up? 21:30:44 Okay, moving on 21:30:46 Pendulum: I'd like to post a bimonthly post about SpeechControl 21:30:47 >_< 21:31:30 It's okay. 21:31:32 JackyAlcine: okay, talk to AlanBell or me after the meeting and maybe we can iron out a schedule or something :) 21:31:47 Alright. 21:32:11 #topic Status on Testing, Bugs, and Prep for Testing 21:32:11 TOPIC: Status on Testing, Bugs, and Prep for Testing 21:32:29 charlie-tca: what's the status on having things sorted so that when we can start testing, there are some directions out there 21:32:32 testing is waiting on development, of course 21:33:04 It is hard to put the tests together, until we have the layouts down. 21:33:17 okay 21:33:43 We need to know the shortcuts still, and we need images that work 21:33:58 today Ubuntu installed for the first time in a week 21:34:01 other than waiting for development, is there any way that anybody else can help you either now or once the development is done to get the tests together? 21:34:26 Once we have things down, we will need people to verify the procedures, yes. 21:34:55 charlie-tca: do you want to get people to commit to helping now, or is it easier for you to just see who is availible at that point? 21:34:55 Until then, it is pretty much stumbling along for a while 21:35:17 Let's see who is available then. It works better that way 21:35:22 great 21:35:36 anything else about bugs or testing? 21:35:55 bugs are looking good now 21:36:03 :D 21:36:15 that's all, unless some one has questions? 21:36:18 calm before teh storm? 21:36:28 yup 21:36:59 if no one has anything else, we can move on... 21:37:02 * charlie-tca did lock up natty after installing orca 21:37:43 i have a question 21:37:55 erkan^: yes? 21:38:00 what about testing? becuase i never have heard about this 21:38:46 We are committed to getting Natty tested with screenreader during the milestone ISO testing by QA 21:39:07 erkan^: once the new accessibility framework is in (or partially in) to Unity/Natty we're going to have to test to make sure it works and get as many bugs fixed as possible before the final Natty release 21:39:46 We also are trying to make sure you can install it with the screenreader. 21:39:56 that's clear. I understand 21:40:01 you probably haven't heard much about it because we're in a holding pattern waiting for the accessibility features to make it into the Natty development version 21:40:20 er.. the public Natty development version 21:40:53 until then we can't really do much to test 21:41:37 anything else? 21:43:07 not here 21:43:22 ok 21:43:39 #topic Brief Intro to SpeechControl 21:43:39 TOPIC: Brief Intro to SpeechControl 21:43:53 hai all i am hajour .to see who i am .its easier to look on my wiki .because i am not a very fast typer.so here is the link. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/hajour.i came here because of the accessibility program to see or i could help..first i had made a list from issues and possible solutions.where i have made a sub page from by my wiki .https://wiki.ubuntu.com/hajour/accesibility 21:44:14 then i saw all kind of troubles with speech programs and thought this must can different. 21:44:14 and 2010-12-11 i started the project speechcontrol. and started to to pull devs ,program makers from speechprograms and more devs . we also have students in the team.together it is become a wonderful dedicated team .where i am proud up to have the honor to may lead them . https://launchpad.net/~speechcontrolteam 21:44:14 https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SpeechControl. 21:44:14 i give the word to JackyAlacine now who is the head development from the team. 21:44:30 sorry if it is to long 21:44:46 hajour: that's not too long at all 21:44:53 When everyone's done reading, just "o/" so I can go. :D 21:45:27 o/ 21:45:38 o/ 21:45:50 Hey, I'm Jacky and I'm part of SpeechControl. 21:45:51 o/ 21:46:10 SpeechControl is the brainchild of and is led solely by Manuela Popping. I'm acting coordinator of development, and it's my duty to ensure that Manuela's ideas can be executed to code. 21:46:36 So far, we've been working to get a Java-based speech synthesis engine named openMary (http://mary.dfki.de) to be used via C++ and Python by implementing libraries. 21:47:13 o/ 21:47:35 However, with a bit more analysis, we've noticed that instead of creating libraries; creating a fork of openMary that's catered to all Ubuntu distros. It can be tailored to incorporate D-Bus and PulseAudio, so that it can be used more universally, but that's a later project and will be attended to when the library hit a mature stage. 21:47:55 Why not use espeak? 21:48:19 is that getting openMary to be an espeak back end? 21:48:38 TheMuso: openMary professes a feature called emoSpeak. 21:48:55 And from reports, the voices in espeak are too "robotic". 21:49:05 we have try to reach you TheMuso with emails and here to 21:49:17 For the record, I don't like human sounding speech synths. They are not as efficient at fast speeds. 21:49:28 TheMuso: That's where Sonic comes in. 21:49:43 And, they take more space on disks etc, so it will be harder to get into Ubuntu, if things should progress that far. 21:49:43 mm i think it would be nice if JackyAlcine could finish 21:50:23 Sonic's another project by Bill Cox that efficiently speeds up and normalizes voices. More information about it @ http://www.vinux.com/sonic 21:50:46 He's working with us to enhance eSpeak and other libraries with this issue. 21:50:50 Yeah heard about it, I personally prefer the synth to dio it natively in its code, but if it proves a better method, then I guess thats the way to go. 21:51:18 TheMuso: That's another option that's been considered, but it seems better to push that for a later release of the libraries. 21:51:36 We also have plans to integrate the openMary engine to SpeechDispatcher and perhaps (a big hope) implement a simple GUI that allows users to select the standard speech synthesis engine and have its own configuration pages (defined by .glade files) and also have it all easily accessible via the such using the selected engines to dictate each label. 21:51:37 Fair enough. 21:52:04 JackyAlcine: Hey I have an idea similar to that, but more modular, to allow for multiple front-ends. 21:52:23 The idea I had was to have the GUI controlling speech-dispatcher. 21:52:29 Oh and glade is being deprecated long term I think. 21:52:53 Perhaps we should have this discussion outside the meeting. 21:53:11 TheMuso: sure, feel free to visit our channel. #ubuntu-speechcontrol 21:53:17 But its goot to hear more about the speech control project. I hope to try and help you guys along at some point, but that won't be in natty's timeframe I'm affraid. 21:53:25 Will do so after this meeting. 21:53:42 That's understable. 21:53:46 *understandable. 21:53:47 SpeechControl also wants to integrate another component into the Linux Speech API, voice recognition. It's pretty interesting that the Linux Speech API doesn't have such a feature. Luckily, a potential application has come up to the role. It's name is Julius. 21:54:05 There are many speech recognition engines out there... 21:54:09 Why this one over the rest? 21:54:25 ...sorry shoudl ask that in the relevant place and time. :) 21:54:37 Lol, no problem, the curiousity's great. 21:54:39 Although the version available from the site isn't, how can I put, suitably efficient for Linux, we've spoken with the project manager of Simon Listens, the KDE application, who has implemented a specialized version of Julius for his application. We're currently collaborating on packaging this version to replace the version available in the repositories. So, yes, SpeechControl's been on its own, scratching its way up, pulling the holes in 21:54:58 ok cool. 21:55:35 simon-listens is really cool actually 21:56:00 it is QT based which is interesting given Mark's recent blog post 21:56:14 mostly when running it doesn't need much gui at all 21:56:35 well if i new this.i already hat put it this way to get your attention TheMuso .you are really hard to reach. lol 21:57:25 Yeah mainly because I am busy. 21:57:43 Anyway, thanks for the great introduction guys, I am interested in helping out where I can. 21:57:49 okay, are there any other questions regarding SpeechControl? (preferably quick and easy ones) 21:57:58 Ideally I'd love to work on a11y full time for Ubuntu, but that won't be the case. 21:59:04 if you want you can sign in in the speechcontrol team TheMuso :) 21:59:25 * hajour is hoping he do it 21:59:47 If you mean on launchpad, then I'll certainly have a look and join. 21:59:57 great 21:59:58 https://www.launchpad.net/~speechcontrolteam 22:00:03 * hajour cheers 22:00:50 Ok I think we can move onto AOB. 22:00:53 great 22:01:00 #topic Any Other Business 22:01:00 TOPIC: Any Other Business 22:01:06 So, Mark's blog post. 22:01:07 are there any other things anyone has to discuss? 22:01:11 QT apps in Ubuntu. 22:01:13 the mean goal is that it stays open source and usable for old pc s to 22:01:36 Yeah, what's up with that? 22:01:42 We need to follow the progress of this decision, and make sure the a11y angle is completely covered. 22:01:42 and Mark specifically mentioned accessibility requirements 22:01:48 Mind you, it does depend on what QT apps are desired. 22:01:57 I mean, we already had to deal with Unity being standard. 22:01:57 anNot all. 22:01:58 AlanBell: yeah, I noticed that he listed it up there and then ignored it later 22:01:59 AlanBell: not all 22:02:10 No VI mentons 22:02:12 mentions 22:02:18 yeah 22:02:33 indeed 22:02:42 it was keyboard and mouse mentions, not VI 22:02:46 Yep 22:03:05 lost it now a bit ?!? 22:03:17 VI stands for vision impairement. 22:03:18 first meeting here 22:03:19 VI=Visual Impairment 22:03:29 a ok 22:03:46 so QT apps are not readable by Orca etc 22:03:57 like webkit 22:04:40 a 22:04:45 Actually webkit is almost 100% usable. 22:04:56 In natty, one can install the epiphany browser, and navigate simple sites with no issue. 22:05:05 I did this myself last week. 22:05:07 cool 22:05:15 does the installer work now? 22:05:20 Haven't tried it yet. 22:05:29 But joanie has offered to help me get that fied up, whcih is cool. 22:05:32 fixed 22:05:35 AlanBell: the live cd installed today 22:05:35 gah typing sucks this morning... 22:06:35 So all we can do, is follow this through, and make sure the a11y angles are all covered. 22:06:56 TheMuso: adding to the many reasons we like joanie? ;-) 22:07:13 I can understand this from a commercial/market share standpoint, but its a bit hard to see this decision made for the next cycle after canonical invested in getting unity accessible. 22:07:20 Pendulum: heh yeah. 22:07:37 yeah 22:07:41 ...unless they decide to do the same for QT, which I somehow doubt. 22:07:46 and put pressure on Mark/Canonical about it, correct? 22:08:01 Yeah, harder for me to do so since I am an employee though... 22:08:17 * Pendulum sees a future possible blog post to come out of this... 22:08:18 And lots of people know what interests me in the company so... 22:08:24 TheMuso: I wasn't saying from you :) 22:08:25 Agreed. 22:08:31 Yeah I know. 22:08:36 Just making sure everyone else does. 22:10:21 So, I think thats all from me about this for now. 22:10:28 okay 22:10:32 anything else? 22:10:37 only i want to say 1last thing speechcontrol must stay open source.i cant say it often enough 22:11:28 o and i am willing to make a blog to with help 22:12:03 Nothing else from me. 22:12:10 could not say it earlier.i had already copied my lines about speechcontrol from note 22:12:33 for to put in chat 22:12:49 okay 22:12:55 does anyone else have anything? 22:13:14 and is it already note that the video s 22:13:35 for to help with the keey often not work at al 22:13:42 keey=key 22:13:52 coc key 22:14:07 lets talk about that afterwards hajour 22:14:15 okay. I think we're done 22:14:18 #endmeeting Generated by MeetBot 0.1.4 (http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell)