= Log of meeting on 3/4/09 = == General Agenda Items and Proposals == ||Who||What|| === Agenda discussion === (none) == Log == {{{#!IRC [00:00:29 ] I have other conflicting obligations, so I will be here a short time [00:00:52] :) [00:00:55] :) [00:01:08] So are there any pressing issues from the team ? [00:01:18] If not, I have just one at the moment ... [00:01:19] Pick me [00:01:37] kk, first I would like a few words :) [00:01:45] go ahead bodhizazen [00:02:00] Just to recap from last meeting re: leadership / team goals [00:02:14] The goal of the team is to help new users on the forums [00:02:29] That is our "manifesto" [00:02:59] IMO I think our goals should include helping on LP, wiki, development, and help guide users to the greater Ubuntu Community [00:03:42] I understand we are all volunteers, and if anyone would like to participate on the team more, contribute more, add goals, etc [00:03:43] 0/ [00:03:47] please come forward :) [00:04:04] Along those lines, I also have an idea I would like to run past the team [00:04:08] have we any documentation detailing how to help on LP? [00:04:08] Bodsda: is your question related to this issue ? [00:04:13] yes ^^ [00:04:27] bodhizazen: after the 12 I should have tons of time like I had when I joined the team [00:04:28] I dont help on LP because i dont know how to use it [00:04:40] present [00:04:43] Forums should always remain our primary focus though. That's who we are. [00:04:44] OK Bodsda we will get you up to speen [00:04:47] *speed [00:04:49] wb DrSmall [00:04:51] DrSmall: !!!!!! [00:04:52] cheers bodhizazen [00:04:52] good to see you [00:04:57] wb DrSmall [00:05:06] And its good to see everyone else :) [00:05:22] +1 Bodsda about LP [00:05:32] Bodsda: ping me after the meeting re LP [00:05:38] Related to the first issue, I think the team has a lot of potential for growth and am wondering if anyone would like to review / elect people to leadership roles [00:05:42] nhandler: will do cheers [00:05:53] shall i say one small idea [00:05:57] * JoshuaRL is back. [00:06:01] +1 sdennie [00:06:03] I would like to know if there is anything anyone would suggest to get some of the FG going stronger ? [00:06:08] o/ [00:06:11] Shall we organise classrooms like things weekly for interested persons on interested topics [00:06:16] go nhandler [00:06:28] bodhizazen: I'd like to see mentoring in the focus groups a little bit more [00:06:41] +1 Bodsda [00:06:43] rraj_be, I would love to see organized classes... [00:06:44] Haha. Go nhandler! [00:06:45] rraj_be: thats already being worked on [00:06:48] I think we should do weekly or bi weekly classrooms, even if they start informally and grow from there [00:07:02] Although I like the idea of having FG leaders run the different FGs, it seems like most of them (including my own) are having a hard time getting regular meetings going. Would anyone object to the team / BT council setting up regular meetings for the FGs? [00:07:12] yeah . . . .but when we have it regullarly . .it will eb much usefull [00:07:13] I think we need both an wiki/web based part of the course(s) coupled with IRC sessions [00:07:15] the problem is people willing to run the classes, I can develop materials np, but running them is hard at best [00:07:31] Vantrax: I can run classroom [00:07:35] Yes... I have not had one meeting that was not me and the four walls [00:07:44] * Vantrax mutters about a pregnant wife [00:07:44] If others are willing to help with materials [00:07:45] nhandler: No objections from my team. [00:07:48] though this weekend forest will make it [00:07:50] 0/ [00:08:08] I have something wrt focus groups [00:08:13] And I would like 2 or 3 people to "shadow" sessions so they can run them in due time :) [00:08:14] Ill continue to develop materials on any topics needed. [00:08:34] er. I mean o [00:08:35] o/ [00:08:46] Lets have a meeting on the mentoring classroom FG then [00:08:51] the biggest problem we face bodhizazen is that when people do not show in IRC the instructors get a bit depressed [00:08:51] My problem will be time [00:09:05] yea cprofitt , it will need to grow [00:09:13] I think informal and grow from there is best [00:09:29] Topic should be 15 minutes with lots of tiem fo rQ&A [00:09:33] I agree with the informalities -- however the main problem is people dont attend [00:09:46] people do not have a 1 hour attention span ;) [00:09:50] bodhizazen: o/ [00:09:53] * Joeb454 waits his turn [00:09:55] JoshuaRL: no pushing [00:09:58] Bodsda: I think it wil grow [00:10:03] no, i mean they dont turn up, we need to advertise more somehow [00:10:03] * JoshuaRL waits behind Joeb454 [00:10:03] go JoshuaRL :) [00:10:12] bodhizazen: no, Joeb454 first [00:10:21] Bodsda: sticky on forms will help [00:10:24] I think having tutorials on the forums and wikis coupled with question and answer sessions on IRC would generate interest [00:10:28] Joeb454: go for it :) [00:10:36] +1 cprofitt [00:10:38] Maybe there is another way bodhi, if we have a list of instructors who can teach listed and the 'classes' are 10 min, we could do them adhoc as requested [00:10:48] * jamesrfla waits behind Joeb454 [00:10:58] people just ping one of the trainers to see if they are free [00:10:59] jamesrfla: me first foo :) [00:11:00] Good idea [00:11:03] Bodsda: am I still here? [00:11:09] ibuclaw: yes [00:11:12] oh [00:11:14] lol [00:11:16] I think we should have a separate meeting to discuss mentoring [00:11:17] Erm, well... [00:11:17] Vantrax, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/FocusGroups/Education/Proposals [00:11:28] he he, ok cp [00:11:29] Bodsda: lol ... I had a dodgy connection for a minute there :P [00:11:30] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/FocusGroups/Education/Instructors [00:11:40] Bodsda: I posted that 15 minutes ago [00:11:45] Those are my issues :) [00:12:01] hah, ok ibuclaw we have been discussing classes and LP [00:12:04] go JoshuaRL :) [00:12:12] as some of you know, I'm (supposed) to be a joint-fg lead with ajmorris on the IRC focus group. We really need to get it kickstarted. But I don't have the time to give to get it going again, so I'd like to offer the place to another member [00:12:15] cprofitt, more so they dont have scheduled times, more approximate availabilities that they are willing to teach during. [00:12:34] Classes++ [00:12:47] Vantrax, that goes with having forum how-tos and Q&A times [00:12:52] Joeb454: I have quite a bit of free time atm, would does the job involve? [00:12:53] bodhizazen: i think that advertising has to me kind of massive. just a sticky probably wont work. as LaRoza said, you can lead a noob to a sticky, but you cant make them read. [00:12:58] I'd like to get involved in some teaching sometime [00:13:02] yeah, just thinking more generic and less time and date [00:13:08] its kind of like optional lab sessions in which the teacher / grad assistant are there to answer questions [00:13:15] maybe we need to have a classroom meeting after? [00:13:28] id be willing to do some teaching [00:13:31] Bodsda: it involves liaising with ajmorris about how to get the damn thing started again :) it may also involve hosting bhb if possible :) [00:13:38] I agree with what you are saying JoshuaRL re: advertising [00:13:44] is forest not here? [00:13:44] any other suggestions ? [00:13:57] * jamesrfla continues to wait [00:13:59] Joeb454: This is one reason I wanted to have the BT council/members schedule regular meetings for all of the FGs [00:14:01] We can probably connect with some of the LUG for example [00:14:02] Joeb454: I can host him, but it would be dodgy lol, i dont have server as such just a desktop with apache [00:14:12] maybe let jamesrfla get whatever it is out... [00:14:20] Bodsda: it doesn't really need apache, unless you wanted logs [00:14:22] And I can throw together a web page for the team on my server [00:14:23] oh, and Bodsda. I think mentoring should be at the discretion of the padawan. But that is just me saying that. [00:14:23] Vantrax: +1 [00:14:27] Bodsda: I can continue to host though [00:14:30] forestpixie and Michael have run classes so it would be great if they were here to add to the discussion [00:14:35] +1 Vantrax [00:14:43] nhandler: yeah definitely +1 for that. [00:14:46] go jamesrfla [00:14:52] thanks bodhizazen [00:15:11] You guys are talking about classes and wiki kind of stuff right? [00:15:16] yes [00:15:20] jamesrfla: yep [00:15:20] uh huh [00:15:21] yes [00:15:32] (hey rraj_be :)) [00:15:40] hello ibuclaw [00:15:43] ;) [00:15:46] Maybe attached the wiki there would be a forum thing if somebody has trouble with something [00:16:03] jamesrfla, you mean a form? [00:16:05] like a regularly pruned thread about each topic? [00:16:12] on the ubuntu forums? [00:16:25] I dont think we can have forums on the ubuntu wiki... if thats what you mean [00:16:38] we have this page -- https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/FocusGroups/Education/Resources [00:16:39] jamesrfla: good idea, but then we'd be locked into checking those a lot [00:16:43] which links people to resources... [00:16:46] yeah like a forums link to some forum. Everybody is creating these wiki guides but what about the people that fallow it but have problems and need help [00:16:54] it would be great to have more people adding to the list... [00:17:17] jamesrfla: I think this is a good idea, a link to a forum somewhere -- perhaps we can request one from uf? [00:17:25] i can host a phpbb on my website if neccessary [00:17:27] My goal jamesrfla would be for people that have issues with the wiki guide to be able to attend an IRC session and get help [00:17:40] jamesrfla: that is what ABF and GH is for. if they have issues, they can post. thats how i feel TBH [00:17:44] that is also good too cprofitt [00:17:53] but having a place to post of the forums would make it easier for people in different timezones [00:18:06] cprofitt, that tends to be the issue [00:18:10] +1 cprofitt [00:18:25] its why I have a hard time running classes myself [00:18:31] my other thing does the team have like a todo list or something? [00:18:40] * cprofitt ponders that UFBT Help Desk [00:18:41] i still feel that is better left to UF. if they have an issue, they can post what step gave them problems [00:19:16] JoshuaRL, the issue with forums is that the responses can often be from people who do not know the answer... but try [00:19:17] i agree JoshuaRL but having a sub forum on UF dedicated to it, with a thread related to each program would be nice [00:19:30] kk, any other suggestions for mentoring ? [00:19:33] it would be nice to have a nice 'clean' way for a question and an answer [00:19:45] cprofitt: Launchpad Answers [00:19:47] when we say mentoring -- can we define that better bodhizazen ? [00:19:47] not really a todo list but here is our mission statement https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/MissionStatement [00:19:52] I would also suggest perhaps bi-weekly meeting rather then monthly ? [00:19:59] have some kind of permissions to allow only certain people to be able to respond [00:20:02] cprofitt: sorry [00:20:04] bodhizazen: For the team? [00:20:07] +1 bodhizazen [00:20:09] thats a good point ibuclaw we can set up a project for that with an answers section... [00:20:09] bodhizazen: I agree, monthly is too long, people will forget [00:20:12] mentoring meaning running sessions on classroom [00:20:13] +1 bodhizazen [00:20:36] cprofitt: i agree in theory, but isnt that what UF is based on? it doesnt have to be Mr Linus Torvalds answering you [00:20:56] bodhizazen, mentoring -- that is 'assisting prospective members to become members and members to take on additional activities in the Ubuntu community" -- is that a good definition? [00:20:57] bodhizazen: I think bi-weekly meetings are good, because chances are if you can't make one of them, it's not as big a deal as missing a monthly meeting [00:20:59] long as its the right answer JoshuaRL, not a wrong one [00:21:07] JoshuaRL: ubuntu forums is about the operating system in its entirity, we would be about our classes primarily [00:21:20] which are about Ubuntu [00:21:25] Vantrax: there's already one in place. It's like a formal forum. little to no trolls, and all answers are written straight and to the point. [00:21:37] works for me [00:21:47] Vantrax: https://answers.launchpad.net/ [00:21:58] JoshuaRL: throw a fish into the see it is unlikely to find its mother, put it in a pond it will find its mother [00:22:17] is that the definition for everyone? or is mentoring more? [00:22:19] ibuclaw, i spend a fair bit of time there... i ment having a project on launchpad for our answers specifically [00:22:30] im not saying we drop it like its hot and leave. but we cant assume all questions can go only to us. we're just dudes that want to help, not some ruling class. [00:22:37] mentoring for me is for members and prospective members... classes are for everyone [00:22:41] Let us try to have more frequent meetings then [00:22:50] im with cprofitt on that one [00:23:02] The other thing , we need to make sure the membership process is not overwhelming [00:23:04] I think we really need to move on right now. We can discuss this topic more later [00:23:05] given that... [00:23:07] JoshuaRL: no but we could be a first port of call when a problem is with our instruction (eg classes) [00:23:14] I would like to drop the requirement for a "quiz" [00:23:21] o/ [00:23:26] bodhizazen, can we still do it for fun? [00:23:27] mentoring of prospective members -- is that for the Masters or for all of us to take on? [00:23:28] JoshuaRL: yes, but we can also ask active forum users to consider joining the team too... [00:23:30] I don't think a lot of recent members got quized bodhizazen [00:23:31] But keep the requirement that they make a wiki page and we get to know them [00:23:38] +1 nhandler [00:23:51] Yes Vantrax , but I get the feeling the quiz is over kill [00:23:52] ibuclaw: we already do, thats how we recuit [00:23:58] I've seen at least 4 or 5 likely candidates that are very active. [00:24:08] I think a wiki page + nomination form an existing member [00:24:13] * cprofitt raises hand [00:24:15] can be, but its a good indicator of technical proficiency [00:24:23] We can do quiz too [00:24:36] but make it optional ? [00:24:39] or just quiz people were not sure on? [00:24:39] bodhizazen: that limits membership to friends/aquaintances of the team to begin with... [00:24:40] the dark path ? [00:24:42] bodhizazen: do we still vote on new members? [00:24:42] go cprofitt [00:24:43] bodhizazen: there must always be a quiz >:) [00:24:47] quiz with funny laggy Votebot [00:24:50] yes [00:24:51] bodhizazen: I understand this may not be the general impression, but I learnt a lot just from the quiz...even if it's not a requirement, I'm not convinced it should be done away with entirely [00:24:57] I just want to clarify the mentoring a bit further... [00:25:05] OK, ok, I give in [00:25:10] and would like people to follow this with me... for a minute [00:25:11] jgoguen: i agree, me too [00:25:19] we can continue the quiz, for educational purposes :) [00:25:28] * jamesrfla raises hand for a team question [00:25:28] cprofitt, there is alot more on that o be discussed, maybe after everything else... we could go on for a fair while... [00:25:30] we have it established that classes are for everyone.... [00:25:38] i got most of the test wrong anyway [00:25:54] and mentoring is broken in to two areas -- members - helping them do more [00:26:03] Sorry, I've missed a bunch of this convo, but if you want to increase attendance at classroom sessions, why not schedule them for an hour before or right after our team meetings to start with. People are already around then. [00:26:05] and prospective members - helping them join the team? [00:26:16] +1 Rocket2DMn [00:26:28] not just about the team tho [00:26:28] Vantrax: ##ubuntu-classroom ? [00:26:32] I think we do a good job of getting prospective members, but think we can do more to assist members grow [00:26:32] +1 Rocket2DMn but I have a loco meeting right after this one [00:26:36] Rocket2DMn: +1. that adds us to the mix. we should be the first to support our outreach. [00:26:42] cprofitt: that is master/padawan mentoring, but the classrooms are where people teach a subject to anyone and everyone who attends [00:27:11] Bodsda -- yep I said that... but do we also have mentoring for current members... [00:27:23] Can we please move on? Otherwise, we will run out of time [00:27:24] mentoring for bug control, etc... [00:27:34] yes cprofitt [00:27:39] cprofitt, I would separate the Master/Padawan mentoring system completely from the public classroom system [00:27:47] Vantrax: +1 [00:27:49] Vantrax -- we have [00:27:49] we should (I should) use more precise language [00:27:52] they dont really connect, but again, after the meeting we can talk more about that [00:28:09] I think we can mentor team members, and I hope the get on going mentoring in this channel [00:28:13] lets get through, then revisit the classroom as its a rather popular topic, and some people have to leave [00:28:15] lets move on -- I have obviously done a poor job of communicating the idea [00:28:20] I will take it to the mailing list [00:28:26] and use classroom for classroom activities :) [00:28:35] * cprofitt nods to bodhizazen [00:28:38] +1 bodhizazen [00:28:47] that was what I was trying to say... [00:29:00] just terminology fun eh [00:29:29] bodhizazen: next subject? [00:29:32] not really Vantrax but lets move on [00:30:01] we should really do an agenda for these:P [00:30:07] was the agenda not on the wiki? [00:30:13] It is empty [00:30:14] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/Meetings [00:30:19] nothing :) [00:30:23] Are there any member nominations that did not get added to the table? [00:30:34] nhandler: maybe [00:30:41] are they here? [00:30:51] hear but not at comp [00:30:52] Can I turn the meeting over to nhandler please ? [00:30:57] sure bodhizazen [00:31:13] bye bodhizazen [00:31:14] I am franlky distracted by several new developments, you will know some of them in short order [00:31:19] !ping | zu22 [00:31:19] zu22: jamesrfla, stop pinging already. We all heard you. [00:31:22] yes bodhizazen [00:31:26] bodhizazen, :) [00:31:32] bodhizazen: have fun [00:31:40] Are there any other new member nominations other than zu22 ? [00:32:13] nhandler: he hasn't quiz but I nominate him [00:32:29] jamesrfla: bodhizazen was talking earlier about doing away with the quiz [00:32:41] we have let people in without quiz previously [00:32:42] .vote "Do you think we should still quiz new members?" [00:32:43] We Are Now Voting On: Do you think we should still quiz new members? [00:32:43] Vote with +1, -1, or 0 [00:32:43] You can also /msg Votebot your vote [00:32:49] +1 [00:32:53] +1 [00:32:55] 0 [00:32:55] +1 [00:32:57] +1 [00:32:59] +1 [00:33:01] 0 [00:33:04] who are we voting on? [00:33:07] 0 [00:33:12] 00:32] <+nhandler> .vote "Do you think we should still quiz new members?" [00:33:14] cprofitt: Do you think we should still quiz new members? [00:33:18] cprofitt: ^^ [00:33:19] 0 [00:33:22] 0 [00:33:26] lot of 0 [00:33:28] .vstatus [00:33:29] 10 People Have Currently Voted. [00:33:34] +1 [00:33:38] Any more votes? [00:33:42] 0 [00:33:53] .vote [00:33:53] We Are Done Voting On: Do you think we should still quiz new members? [00:33:54] 12 People Voted. 6 People For. 0 People Against. 6 People Neutral. [00:34:01] lol even [00:34:07] no, +6 [00:34:07] :) [00:34:12] Well, neutral votes don't block [00:34:16] i also think if two members support it, then we can bypass the vote [00:34:28] +1 Vantrax [00:34:35] I think the vote is good enough to do away with the quiz [00:34:39] have 2 BT members nominate a new member [00:34:53] Why go and start making exceptions to rules? [00:34:56] It always ends up as the vote decides anyway [00:35:00] true [00:35:00] Rocket2DMn: +1 [00:35:26] nhandler: if there's time I would like to try and get an idea of who would be interested in IRC fg co-leadership [00:35:35] Joeb454: Go ahead [00:35:58] We shall keep the quiz then, but let us make it educational in it's purpose and not a barrier to membership [00:36:02] I know Bodsda said he may have time, is anybody else interested in it [00:36:13] +1 bodhizazen [00:36:15] +1 Bod [00:36:20] bodhizazen: you said it better than I was going to :) [00:36:21] +1 bodhizazen [00:36:25] bodhizazen: the quiz can serve to see how soon somebody gets put up for membership imo [00:36:31] bodhizazen: I personally would get rid of the quiz. A vote of 0 is not a block [00:36:46] nhandler, bodhizazen is BDFL [00:36:53] If we keep it, it should just be used as an informal way to check a person's knowledge [00:36:57] 0=voted but doesn't count [00:36:58] cprofitt: lol [00:37:36] i think we are straying a bitm, we are on the subject of IRC co-lead [00:37:50] Ok, Joeb454, go ahead [00:38:18] ok, so I know Bodsda said he may have time, but is there anybody else who would be interested in taking it on [00:38:28] if so let me know, and I'll discuss it with ajmorris :) [00:38:48] * rraj_be is sorry for leaving in middle . . .but he's having only another 20 minutes to get out to college . . . [00:38:59] I'm about to come onto some new responsibilities, so I can't help out with the IRC fg [00:39:12] no worries :) [00:39:48] Joeb454: what does that involve exactly? [00:39:58] nhandler: congrats re: new responsibilities [00:40:11] JoshuaRL: honestly? I'm not sure [00:40:12] * lukjad007 sneaks in late [00:40:15] I would, but aj and I are in the same timezone... id suggest someone from us/europe [00:40:16] Thanks bodhizazen. For those of you who don't know: https://edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-dev/+poll/tb-nh-2009/+vote-simple [00:40:35] JoshuaRL: Bodsda the plan I have atm is to get a list of people interested, speak to aj about it, and get back to you [00:41:16] nhandler: lp wont let me log in [00:41:17] Joeb454: sounds good to me :) [00:41:26] Joeb454: what's this for? [00:41:37] ibuclaw: IRC FG co-leader [00:41:38] Joeb454: i guess i am, ive got a little more time on my hands lately [00:41:39] ibuclaw: IRC fg co-lead [00:41:40] nhandler, is up for MOTU Council for anyone that cant get the link [00:41:56] Joeb454: I may be interested [00:41:56] w00t go nhandler [00:41:59] nhandler: nice man! [00:42:13] ok so I have ibuclaw JoshuaRL and Bodsda...anybody else? [00:42:16] was also in the UNW... you guys should really read that... [00:42:28] You mean UWN, right Vantrax ;) [00:42:35] ? [00:42:40] !uwn [00:42:41] The Ubuntu Weekly Newsletter may be found at: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter [00:43:15] yeah [00:43:31] Are there any other topics to discuss? [00:43:38] not from me [00:43:51] Nope... [00:43:55] nope [00:43:56] nope [00:44:06] nope [00:44:16] Any other new members? [00:44:28] zu22: never got back to us [00:44:35] Is he the only one? [00:44:54] as far as i know, no one is on the wiki as up for nom [00:45:00] And would you like to vote on him even though he is not here? Or should we hold off? [00:45:01] swoody? [00:45:25] Bodsda: yeah I am not sure what happened to him [00:45:28] I would like to see an increased attempt to support launchpad answers as it is generally the first point new users visit as its where the built in query app dumps too... [00:45:28] Joeb454 ? [00:45:36] swoody: ? [00:45:39] he sent me a memo but he is here just not at his comp [00:45:41] Vantrax: That is on my todo list for the LP fg [00:45:49] !ping | zu22 again [00:45:49] zu22 again: jamesrfla, stop pinging already. We all heard you. [00:45:55] nhandler, ill jump in and help on this one [00:46:23] * Bodsda has to run away for a sec bbiab [00:46:46] Well, if there is nothing left to discuss... [00:46:51] .vote "End meeting early?" [00:46:52] We Are Now Voting On: End meeting early? [00:46:52] Vote with +1, -1, or 0 [00:46:52] You can also /msg Votebot your vote [00:46:55] o? [00:46:58] o/ [00:46:59] orly? [00:47:00] lol [00:47:01] .vote [00:47:02] 0 [00:47:02] We Are Done Voting On: End meeting early? [00:47:02] 1 People Voted. 0 People For. 0 People Against. 1 People Neutral. [00:47:08] bodhizazen: Go ahead [00:47:13] early? the meetin is over when its over [00:47:16] are we not voting then? [00:47:18] Any ubuntu members here ? [00:47:19] * jamesrfla lost his question ***** [00:47:21] o/ [00:47:23] o/ [00:47:28] wants to be one bodhizazen [00:47:32] jamesrfla, you lost your question password? [00:47:38]