= Log of meeting on 05/05/09 = == General Agenda Items and Proposals == PLEASE COME TO THE MEETINGS PREPARED. This means: 1. If there is an issue for the team, add it to the agenda. 1. Agenda items then should be discussed "informally" on #ubuntufourms-beginners. 90 % of the discussion should have taken place before the meeting. The channel should be enjoyable for everyone, but keep in mind the purpose of the channel is to discuss team functions. 1. Ideally, meetings then are for decision making, team votes. Read the agenda and discuss your thoughts before the meeting. 10 % (or less) of the discussion should happen during the meeting. 1. Agenda items that require more then 5 minutes of discussion may need to be deferred. ||Who||What|| || [[Rocket2DMn]] || Members not on mailing list: saj0577, overdrank || || [[nhandler]] || [[BuildingCommunity/TeamReporting|Team Reporting]] / [[UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter]] || || [[nhandler]] || Votes at Meetings || || [[thewrath]] || IRC Policies/Behaviors || === Agenda discussion === * Members not on mailing list: Saj0577 stopped by the IRC channel. He said he will subscribe to the mailing list sometime this week. * Team Reporting: Team Reports are created by most official Ubuntu Teams. At the end of the month, all of the individual team reports are combined and posted in on the Fridge, on individual blogs, in the UWN, and in many other places. These team reports are a great way for us to keep the rest of the community informed about what we are doing. I have already gone ahead and created a [[BeginnersTeam/TeamReport|Team Report Page]] that we can use. I would also be fine updating it each month. I also want to try and get a small paragraph added to the [[UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter]] after each meeting. -- [[LaunchpadHome:nhandler]] <> * Votes at Meetings: In the past, we have used [[VoteBot]] during our meetings in #ubuntuforums-beginners on irc.freenode.net. VoteBot had a feature that would only allow voiced users (BT members) to vote. Now that we are holding our meetings in #ubuntu-meeting, we are using MootBot. MootBot does not have any method of restricting who can participate in a vote. Should we simply allow all people present at the meeting to vote? Or should we find another way? * IRC Policies/Behaviors: Over the past week there has been some issues with behavior in IRC Channel. Just want to go over policy and remind members we are an official Ubuntu Channel. In addition, all members should be proactive if there are issues. If things get out of hand, message an OP. == Log == {{{#!IRC [00:01] #startmeeting [00:01] Meeting started at 18:01. The chair is bodhi_zazen. [00:01] Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE] [00:01] Welcome everyone [00:01] Hi bodhi_zazen [00:01] Morning people [00:01] Hi bodhi_zazen [00:01] [TOPIC] Agenda : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/Meetings [00:01] New Topic: Agenda : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/Meetings [00:01] afternoon peoples [00:02] We have a full schedule so please read ahead [00:02] ready Rocket2DMn ? [00:02] [TOPIC] Mailing list [00:02] New Topic: Mailing list [00:03] Yeah [00:03] Just as a followup to a decision made earlier, everybody needs to be on the mailing list, or you will lose voice [00:03] AFAIK, saj and overdrank are the only two not on the list now [00:03] saj apparently said he would get on later this week, so we just need to talk to OD [00:03] Has anyone seen overdrank recently? [00:04] nope [00:04] not for awhile [00:04] no, havent seen him around, just on the forums occassionally [00:04] no [00:04] no, only when he said he would sign up alter on in the week [00:04] How about if we send out an email to the 2 MIA with a 30 day deadline ? [00:04] howabout just before the next meeting bodhi_zazen [00:04] that's 2 weeks, right? [00:04] 2 weeks is too short , IMO [00:04] bodhi_zazen: I think overdrank is the only one we need to send an email [00:04] Either way works for me [00:04] some people have things come up [00:05] ok, 30 days then [00:05] you want to email overdrank bodhi_zazen ? [00:05] It's a trivial thing to do [00:05] Well, email helps document nhandler [00:05] I shall [00:05] Thanks, that is all for this topic i believe [00:05] anyone want to vote ? [00:06] I don't think a vote is necessary. I think we [AGREE] [00:06] I vote not to vote. [00:06] Naaa [00:06] [ACTION] email with 30 day notice [00:06] ACTION received: email with 30 day notice [00:06] 0 [00:06] [TOPIC] Ubuntu newsletter [00:06] New Topic: Ubuntu newsletter [00:07] I'm up [00:07] Team reporting looks great nhandler [00:07] I talked to the UWN editors, they said that they would be wiling to include a blurb about the UFBT after our meetings [00:07] I agree with the process nhandler [00:07] I think we need someone to lead that project up , probably should be me ? [00:07] and the UWN editors are very nice [00:07] to work with [00:08] I have been getting involved with the UWN lately bodhi_zazen, so I can act as a liason [00:08] what do we need to do nhandler ? [00:08] bodhi_zazen: The Team Reporting link explains how to handle it [00:08] If you want, I can demonstrate after this meeting [00:08] link here for logs please nhandler :) [00:08] What is the Ubuntu Newsletter? [00:08] I also have a pretty good relationship with Tyche and JohnC [00:08] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BuildingCommunity/TeamReporting [00:09] and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter [00:09] OK, let up proceed with it then [00:09] [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter [00:09] LINK received: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter [00:10] [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BuildingCommunity/TeamReporting [00:10] LINK received: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BuildingCommunity/TeamReporting [00:10] [ACTION] Proceed with Team Reporting [00:10] ACTION received: Proceed with Team Reporting [00:10] what's the link to our team report? [00:10] [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/TeamReport [00:10] LINK received: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/TeamReport [00:10] Haha [00:10] [IDEA] I think we need to include the Education FG on that as the Moodle site has the highest visibility right now [00:10] IDEA received: I think we need to include the Education FG on that as the Moodle site has the highest visibility right now [00:11] any other comments ? [00:11] thanks for making that nhandler , we'll add it to our linkbar at the top [00:11] I agree bodhi_zazen, all FGs should be included in the team report. They are part of the team after all [00:11] Thanks Rocket2DMn [00:11] agreed [00:11] [ACTION] Add https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/TeamReport to the BT wiki navbar [00:11] nhandler: Well, maybe not ALL groups... [00:11] * nhandler notes only the chair can use [ACTION] [00:11] oh, thanks [00:11] Some teams are inactive, I think only major FG [00:12] I think FGs should just post a subsection when appropriate [00:12] what teams would be included? [00:12] bodhi_zazen: If the team has some important news, it should go there [00:12] That was what I was thinking RoAkSoAx [00:12] * Rocket2DMn [00:12] I think Education, wiki, and "forums" [00:12] I have to go... [00:12] Wait, nevermind [00:13] we can hammer out details over the next few weeks [00:13] bodhi_zazen: Yes, those seem to be the most visible and interesting groups [00:13] shall we move on ? [00:13] Fine [00:13] [TOPIC] VOTING IN MEETINGS [00:13] New Topic: VOTING IN MEETINGS [00:13] he he he [00:13] capslockfailure [00:13] bodhi_zazen, lrn2pushcapslock [00:13] We used to use VoteBot to restrict voting to BT members. Now that we are in #ubuntu-meeting, that is no longer possible [00:13] nhandler raises a good point [00:14] o/ [00:14] I think we should still keep it to members voting, people can't private vote so it's easy to disregard votes from non-members. [00:14] It should be kept to members only, imo [00:14] +1 I kind of brought it up... [00:14] +1 Rocket2DMn [00:14] Private Message Voting. [00:14] we can ask to have VoteBot allowed.... in here. [00:14] o/ [00:14] Stongly feel only members can vote. Accounting is something that can be done with penci/paper if necessary until automation returns. [00:14] * zu22 concurs members-only [00:14] cprofitt: Yes, but it works based on voice, I think. [00:14] go Hellow and Vantrax [00:14] * Bodsda agrees, members only [00:14] I could hard code some settings into VoteBot to make it look in #ubuntuforums-beginners to determine members [00:15] We can set up VoteBot to accept votes via PM [00:15] Voting should still be possible just by messaging votebot, even if its not in here [00:15] It already does st33med [00:15] st33med, votebot already does accept private votes [00:15] I was going to suggest voting by PM XD [00:15] we can vote in #ubuntuforums-beginners [00:15] +1 bodhi_zazen [00:15] which would solve the "problem" [00:15] was just typing that out [00:15] +1 [00:15] It sounds like the team still wants member voting [00:15] that is true bodhi_zazen , and we can just say the results here [00:15] bodhi_zazen: I don't think it solves the problem [00:15] +1 bodhi_zazen [00:15] +1 [00:15] it creates a fix, definitely [00:15] but not solve [00:15] why not Joeb454 ? [00:15] I might be able to code something that would allow us to hold the vote in here, but use #ubuntuforum-beginners to determine members [00:15] I don't have a problem using MootBot though, it seems more responsive to me [00:15] and who asked you ? [00:16] it just seems a hassle [00:16] Perhaps we can have a dedicated vote bot with a database of members, and it allows only those people in the database to vote? [00:16] bodhi_zazen: :| [00:16] Rocket2DMn: Mootbot is open to all users [00:16] :) [00:16] lol Rocket2DMn [00:16] nhandler, yeah, but we can see the votes [00:16] nhandler: I'm sure you could [00:16] we all know votebot has lag. Rocket2DMn brings up a good point [00:16] how do other teams handle votes in this channel? [00:16] nhandler: could you not have a list coded into votebot of voiced members in #ubntuforums-beginners then check each vote in here against that list? [00:16] Rocket2DMn: But that means we need to manually count the votes and verify non-members did not vote [00:16] I think that's mostly because it echos all your votes back. [00:16] how about if we use #ubuntuforums-beginners for voting until we have a better solution [00:16] I could potentially modify my bot to accept votes [00:17] Snova: It is [00:17] nhandler, if it came to that, i would support using VoteBot, but I don't see it being a problem [00:17] alternate would be mootbot until there is a problem [00:17] It's much faster and no lag [00:17] I should be able to get VoteBot working by the next meeting [00:17] perhaps we should ask some of the other teams that use this channel [00:17] st33med: NO MORE BOTS :) [00:17] bodhi_zazen, no, I mean 'replace' [00:17] cprofitt: Other teams simply use MootBot since the meetings are open [00:17] :) [00:17] k [00:17] st33med: Votebot itself is not laggy, it just has the annoying "feature" of echoing all your votes back. [00:17] cprofitt: I think they get non-members to then vote -1 to get the count back to what it should be [00:17] * Hellow echoes his prior suggestion [00:17] Shall we vote ? [00:18] +1 = use mootbot [00:18] -1 = use votebot in #uf-b [00:18] What happened to yea or nay? [00:18] bodhi_zazen: HOW DO WE VOTE ;) [00:18] [VOTE] Mootbot ? [00:18] Please vote on: Mootbot ?. [00:18] Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to MootBot [00:18] E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting [00:18] ;) [00:18] +1 [00:18] +1 received from Rocket2DMn. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1 [00:18] 0 [00:18] -1 [00:18] -1 [00:18] -1 received from st33med. 1 for, 1 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 0 [00:18] -1 [00:18] -1 received from jamesrfla. 1 for, 2 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -1 [00:18] where are we voting? [00:18] -1 received from PartyBoi2. 1 for, 3 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -2 [00:18] -1 [00:18] -1 received from Vantrax. 1 for, 4 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -3 [00:18] oh here [00:18] +1 [00:18] -1 [00:18] -1 [00:18] -1 [00:18] -1 [00:18] +1 received from Joeb454. 2 for, 4 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -2 [00:18] -1 [00:18] _1 [00:18] -1 received from jgoguen. 2 for, 5 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -3 [00:18] +0 [00:18] -1 [00:18] -1 received from zu22. 2 for, 6 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -4 [00:18] lol [00:18] -1 [00:18] -1 received from Bodsda. 2 for, 7 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -5 [00:18] 0 [00:18] -1 received from Hellow. 2 for, 8 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -6 [00:18] -1 received from nhandler. 2 for, 9 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -7 [00:18] Abstention received from cprofitt. 2 for, 9 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now -7 [00:18] -1 received from duanedes1gn. 2 for, 10 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now -8 [00:18] -1 received from ds305. 2 for, 11 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now -9 [00:18] bodhi_zazen, you have to use a + [00:18] lawl [00:19] bodhi_zazen: you need a + [00:19] win [00:19] +0 [00:19] Abstention received from bodhi_zazen. 2 for, 11 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now -9 [00:19] +0 [00:19] Abstention received from sdennie. 2 for, 11 against. 3 have abstained. Count is now -9 [00:19] [VOTE] [00:19] bodhi_zazen, Either there isn't a meeting in progress, or there is already an active vote. [00:19] :\ [00:19] +0 [00:19] ? [00:19] Abstention received from bgs100. 2 for, 11 against. 4 have abstained. Count is now -9 [00:19] LOL [00:19] MootBot is echoing things as well... but it's not lagging nearly as bad... [00:19] bodhi_zazen: [ENDVOTE] [00:19] [ENDVOTE] [00:19] Final result is 2 for, 11 against. 4 abstained. Total: -9 [00:19] Snova: VoteBot needs threading [00:19] lol, I got rocked [00:19] OK Votebot for now then >:) [00:20] votebot ftw! [00:20] bodhi_zazen, I am saying that I want to replace VoteBot with my codebase [00:20] * bodhi_zazen likes mootbot, can we do that again ? [00:20] go lagy votebot [00:20] At one point, ibuclaw was playing around with adding threading support [00:20] bodhi_zazen: the total still would've been -8 [00:20] I think Votebot just needs it's throttling turned off. [00:20] bodhi_zazen: Mootbot couldn't even rig it's own election! [00:20] [TOPIC] IRC Policies [00:20] New Topic: IRC Policies [00:20] It's multithreaded and can handle a lot of messages at once [00:21] I guess it is my turn [00:21] thewrath: you here :) [00:21] yes sir [00:21] go :) [00:21] Over the past week I have seen and heard issues in the bt channel. Last night was the end of the line. I believe many of us where in the room. I read about it. I wanted to remind everyone that we are an official ubuntu channel [00:21] I too see bad behavior on the channel [00:22] we have discussed this b4 [00:22] I also propose some kind of reprocution if a member is foudn to do this [00:22] [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/IRC [00:22] LINK received: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/IRC [00:22] bodhi_zazen: i bring it up after last nights incidents [00:22] complaints to mailing list with SHORT logs please [00:22] to be handled by council [00:22] o/ [00:22] o/ [00:22] at some point, I may merge/edit and push my branch, but the current codebase nhandler has is huge. [00:22] \\o [00:22] Bodsda: [00:22] is the mailing list really the best place to discuss a bt members bad behaviour, should it not be private? [00:23] I would like to remind everyone to behave [00:23] Not if it occurs in the main channel Bodsda [00:23] o/ [00:23] Bodsda: Depending on the nature, either send it to the BT Council mailing list or post it in ##beginners-council [00:23] the council will discuss it in private [00:23] nhandler: and if it is a problem with a council member? [00:23] Bodsda: then to Bodhi directly [00:23] Well if a council member acts out I will kick ass :) [00:24] fair play -- cheers for the clarification [00:24] Bodsda: Burn them! [00:24] lol [00:24] +1 bodhi_zazen [00:24] :D [00:24] * nhandler hopes it does not come to that [00:24] BANHAMMER [00:24] +1 nhandler [00:24] bodhi_zazen: I would say that in general, the council wouldn't discuss behaviour via the mailing list, rather via the IRC channel [00:24] sorry, I have epic lag [00:24] +1 Joeb454 [00:24] o/ [00:24] o/ [00:24] What happened to beginner's council? [00:24] complaints via mailing list, discussion in private [00:24] bodhi_zazen, should I update the BT/IRC page to include info about contacting the council? [00:24] we banned you st33med [00:24] D: [00:25] Rocket2DMn: I think so [00:25] sure [00:25] that is to say, i would update with info about what to do with complains or problems [00:25] Rocket2DMn: Maybe a separate Council wiki page would be best [00:25] 0/ [00:25] also, thewrath in regards to IRC behaviour, I have updated VoteBot's !ops factoid to display the correct list of ops (it's quite large) [00:25] [ACTION]Complaints to bt mailing list, discussion in private [00:25] ACTION received: Complaints to bt mailing list, discussion in private [00:25] o/ [00:25] go zul [00:25] +1 Joeb454 [00:25] bodhi_zazen: BT Council mailing list, not BT list [00:25] the ip of someone who was in #uf-bt scanned my machine for open ports, should i have reported this to anyone? it wasn't a BT member [00:26] I would also like to recommend using +m to calm things down if it is non-voiced folks acting up [00:26] zu22: lol [00:26] D: [00:26] cprofitt, but that even silences those who (don't have voice and) were not acting up [00:26] cprofitt: I like that idea [00:26] zu22: Well, we really do not have jurisdiction on that kind of thing [00:27] zu22: that happened to me and it was a Ubuntu forum beginners team member [00:27] o/ [00:27] If you feel harassed, mailing list or e mail me [00:27] bgs100, you are correct... but people evading bans find it not fun when they have no voice [00:27] bodhi_zazen: oh ok, just wonder what steps i should take [00:27] jamesrfla: ah i see [00:27] bgs100: we could temporarily voice the members that need to be if it comes to that [00:27] +1 johnc4510 [00:27] lol [00:27] servers johnc4510 for hanging here [00:27] +1 Joeb454 [00:27] 1+ Joeb454 [00:27] epic tab fail in this channel [00:28] /msg hellow +1 [00:28] oops [00:28] thewrath: just speak so long as it is on topic [00:28] fail [00:28] okay bodhi_zazen [00:28] any further comments on irc behavior ? [00:29] I am *trying* to keep the channel a sfriendly and relaxed as possible [00:29] I have a comment [00:29] do what you want so long as we do not receive complaints :) [00:29] bodhi_zazen: +1 [00:29] o/ [00:29] o/ [00:29] +1 bodhi_zazen [00:29] within the CoC of course [00:30] Rocket2DMn: absoloutely [00:30] I think we should be open but not crazy in our censorship. [00:30] and all BT members should have signed the CoC [00:30] REMINDER: Bad/Vulgar language is not 'really' appropriate [00:30] Off topic comments -> table until agenda items are covered [00:30] bodhi_zazen: maybe we should create like a ubuntu forums beginners team club channel were the team can hang out and not have to worry about this problem [00:30] I would think ghetto language also does not fit [00:30] jamesrfla, -1 [00:30] jamesrfla: create yet another room? [00:30] oh god [00:30] -1 we have too many channels already [00:30] jamesrfla, bad behavior is not tolerated anywhere [00:30] just a idea [00:31] -1 [00:31] Sorry I am late [00:31] additional comments :) [00:31] and +1 sdennie [00:31] bodhi_zazen: did you need me? [00:31] having mock fights and other foolishness is not good either [00:31] saw you mentioned me [00:31] with a +1 [00:31] Nope johnc4510, tab failure [00:31] cprofitt: Agreed [00:31] ah [00:31] it was tab failure johnc4510 [00:31] o/ [00:31] no johnc4510 , tab failure, sorry [00:31] cool [00:31] Basically, be mature and respectful and we will have no problems [00:31] thought i was being volunteered hee hee [00:31] hello by the way johnc4510 [00:31] later [00:32] bye [00:32] o/ [00:32] cprofitt: hey [00:32] paultag: just go ahead so long as it is on topic [00:32] one other thought -- if a Jedi Knight goes OP [00:32] I think we need to moderate a little more tightly in the chan. We are having a lot of issues lately. I know Rocket2DMn will hate me for this, but I think we need to give IRC FG a bit more leway with moderation. [00:32] everyone should reflect on their behavior and calm down [00:32] none of us like taking out the kick/ban stick [00:32] yes paultag [00:32] It is out of hand [00:33] report issues on mailing list please [00:33] and I agree, especially at "off hours" [00:33] o/ [00:33] I haven't seen any of this behavoir but if I do see it should I just bring it up with the cousil? [00:33] on that note I need to go :P [00:33] mailing list james [00:33] bye paultag [00:33] OK, focus groups ? [00:34] then elections [00:34] [TOPIC] Education FG [00:34] New Topic: Education FG [00:34] o/ [00:34] cprofitt: :) [00:34] ? [00:34] this was on the agenda? [00:34] ? [00:34] anything on educatino ? [00:34] ..it was? [00:34] * cprofitt looks for notes [00:34] who put it there? [00:34] * jamesrfla didn't see it in agenda [00:35] * Hellow looks [00:35] not there:P [00:35] cprofitt: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/Meetings#FG%20Leader%20Nominations [00:35] it's not there lol [00:35] if you have an on topic comment, feel free, otherwise hold to end of meetign [00:35] My idea for Education FG is to print BT bumber stickers and t-shirts and sell them. And the profits go into a fund we use to advertize Ubuntu. [00:35] ... That's not educational [00:35] zu22: read the post above yours [00:35]