= Log of meeting on 06/02/09 = == General Agenda Items and Proposals == PLEASE COME TO THE MEETINGS PREPARED. This means: 1. If there is an issue for the team, add it to the agenda. 1. Agenda items then should be discussed "informally" on #ubuntufourms-beginners. 90 % of the discussion should have taken place before the meeting. The channel should be enjoyable for everyone, but keep in mind the purpose of the channel is to discuss team functions. 1. Ideally, meetings then are for decision making, team votes. Read the agenda and discuss your thoughts before the meeting. 10 % (or less) of the discussion should happen during the meeting. 1. Agenda items that require more then 5 minutes of discussion may need to be deferred. ||Who||What|| ||LeAstrale ([[Hellow]] in my place)||"A quest for Python"|| ||[[BodhiZazen]]||What's in a name ?|| ||[[nhandler]]||Team Reports Reflection|| === Agenda discussion === * Does anyone want to join our "A quest for Python"? Its for people who are either completely new to programming or that just wants to learn the python language we are helping each other through "A byte of python" (a book). We are generally just here to learn python and motivate each other to get things done. Feel free to drop me an email on jesperhen89(at)gmail.com if you want to join. - LeAstrale == Log == {{{#!IRC [23:12:41] Votebot: ready ? [23:13:10] let us announce on #ubuntu-meeting :) [23:13:24] okay bodhi_zazen [23:13:25] I can do that bodhizazen [23:13:36] Or you can ;) [23:13:47] lol [23:13:50] everyone here ? [23:13:52] are we holding the meeting here? [23:13:54] yep [23:14:0] ok [23:14:4] yes Rocket2DMn [23:14:37] First, I apologize to the team, I have been busy the last few weeks [23:14:53] Setting up a new server takes time :) [23:14:57] and I have family too [23:15:17] understandable bodhi [23:15:18] No apology needed bodhi_zazen :) [23:15:19] The new server is mostly done, so I hope to be more available [23:15:32] Glad to hear that bodhi_zazen [23:16:2] I would like to interject an item for the team to consider :) [23:16:20] we have been asked to consider changing our name - by members of teh CC [23:16:43] notes that this has been on the BT agenda before [23:16:49] to something that encompasses the work we do , not only on the forums, but for the greater community [23:16:57] last time we had this come up we did vote for a change, however the bt council overruled it [23:17:2] So, let us re-consider [23:17:12] Ubuntu Beginners Team? [23:17:13] we would need to update LP and wiki pages :) [23:17:16] we voted to change to UBT [23:17:18] bodhi_zazen, did they wnat to take out the Beginners part? [23:17:28] no, forums Rocket2DMn [23:17:36] but I want to take out beginners [23:17:42] is there any specific name in mind they wanted to change to? Or is that still open to ideas? [23:17:42] understood [23:17:44] can we hear the argument for and against please? [23:17:44] Ubuntu Mentoring team ? [23:17:50] They felt, and i agree, that the forums part is misleading based on our current role [23:17:54] bodhi_zazen: We aren't really mentoring [23:18:3] I dont think we cn use Mentoring or Learning [23:18:14] for and aginst what Ash_R ? [23:18:14] Education is out due to Edubuntu [23:18:17] Maybe consider using the word Help instead of Beginners [23:18:30] Ubuntu Helping team ? [23:18:31] I say we keep Beginners in our name; it still encompasses our role in the community well [23:18:31] lol [23:18:34] +1 nhander [23:18:40] Ubuntu Help Team:P [23:18:42] Ubuntu Tech Support? [23:18:49] Hellow: +1 [23:18:50] swoody: No. We aren't tech support [23:18:52] oh no... dont go ther [23:18:53] we do more than help users, too [23:18:58] I think beginners is what we specialise in helping. it should say so in our name [23:19:0] I also don't like the way Ubuntu Help/Helping team sounds [23:19:12] I still call for Ubuntu Beginners Team [23:19:16] My vote is for Ubuntu Beginners Team [23:19:18] As do I [23:19:21] me too [23:19:39] I don't think we need to decide today, but at least we can hear ideas [23:19:42] do we want to decide this issue today ? [23:19:49] that being said, i am and work and have to duck out for 10 min [23:19:54] or take suggestions and vote later ? [23:20:3] i have the time to discuss [23:20:9] bodhi_zazen: I don't think we have enough people here to make a decission this big [23:20:10] does everyone have their opinion on this or are those here that are undecided? [23:20:13] its been decided here before bodhi [23:20:16] +1 nhandler [23:20:24] Vantrax: +1 [23:20:27] nhandler: +1 [23:20:37] I also think the council should have a meeting about it as well [23:20:43] Discussion for this would be more efficient on the mailing list than in here [23:20:47] Vantrax: the last time we decided we went with UFBT [23:20:47] I am undecided, I need to see some options to choose from [23:21:3] what if we had a list of options, if we really must change the name? [23:21:21] no bodhi_zazen the last time we went with UBT, and the council voted to keep UFBT and it stayed the same [23:21:23] mailing list is OK, so long as it is discussed, otherwise ? wiki page [23:21:31] the vote by the team was UBT [23:21:31] I am in favor of removing the 'Forums' from our name as well. But would be open to see other suggestions as well. [23:21:34] Let us also consider that this is a request, they aren't telling us to change our name, are they? [23:21:49] Ash_R: I am fairly sure the majority of the team is in support of Ubuntu Beginners Team, but the entire team isnt here to discuss it. [23:21:50] no Rocket2DMn , it is a request [23:22:8] I am not so sure I agree Hellow [23:22:13] what is the motive behind the request bodhi_zazen [23:22:17] I think the majority of the team prefers UFBT [23:22:24] bodhi_zazen: If we had to change our name [23:22:32] I prefer UFBT myself too [23:22:37] Ash_R: Because we are trying to replace other teams and expand, so we are not just forums based [23:22:45] Ash_R: the motive is to have the name of the team reflect the fact we are active outside of the forums [23:22:57] (which we are) [23:23:2] I would think that the logical step would be to go with Ubuntu Beginners Team if we do change. If you want something different, then are you also proposing tht we change our team's mission? [23:23:16] Rocket2DMn: +1 [23:23:26] +1 Rocket2DMn [23:23:30] Rocket2DMn: that is a good point [23:23:30] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/MissionStatement [23:23:32] no Rocket2DMn :) [23:23:53] It is just that I am saying how is it we help beginners ? [23:24:25] Well, on the forums we focus on the ABT section of the forums [23:24:32] Ubuntu Assistance Team [23:24:37] tht's the idea anyway, though we do cover most areas of the forums in reality [23:24:47] drubin: That might get confused with Accessibility [23:25:11] * drs305 [23:25:11] NUT [23:25:16] Uew Users Team [23:25:25] New Users Team, lol [23:25:28] Besides, what do we define as a "beginner"? Somebody can have used Ubuntu for years, but if they are new to something else, like a new program, they are a beginner for using that program [23:25:38] what is the difference between a beginner and a new user? [23:25:42] bodhi_zazen: What if the users aren't new, just inexperienced in Linux? [23:25:45] bodhi_zazen: I think that may get confused with the now dead New User Network [23:25:54] continuing education team :) [23:25:55] New To Ubuntu [23:25:59] are we just changing words? [23:26:17] I would -1 changing words [23:26:23] +1 Rocket2DMn [23:26:27] +1 Rocket2DMn [23:26:49] We are known throughout the community as the Beginners Team (even without the Forums part of the title). We use this name everything - wiki, lp, forums, mailing lists, etc [23:26:57] well, that leaves UFBT or UBT or just BT or UT [23:27:10] UT? [23:27:14] Ubuntu Team? [23:27:17] i like beginners team. its short and straight to the point [23:27:17] Ubuntu Team [23:27:22] UBT [23:27:24] +1 for UBT [23:27:30] +1 UBT [23:27:32] +1 UBT [23:27:32] UBN [23:27:33] I would vote for UBT or just BT [23:27:42] i say UBT [23:27:45] Ubuntu Beginners Network ? [23:27:47] then they know wat beginner tema it is [23:27:52] bodhi_zazen: +1 [23:28:9] bodhi_zazen: Yet we are not a network, we are a team :). [23:28:12] +1 thewrath , other teams also use Ubuntu in their titles [23:28:19] Hellow +1 [23:28:38] that's a good point Hellow , a network is only loosely connected, we are well organized [23:28:41] Well we are a netwrok as we coordinate on forums, wiki, LP, etx [23:29:5] I think we do 'network' but I think we *are* a team [23:29:15] UBT is sounding like the winner ;) [23:29:21] I tend to think of a "network" of individuals as just people who know eachother as contacts, but dont necessarily work together [23:29:30] i agree with bodhi_zazen , though do not like the idea of network in the name, we are a team at heart [23:29:31] just my .02 [23:29:43] Beginners Education Team [23:29:50] A team, in my eyes, is a group of people that focus on a specific topic or many specific topics. A Network is basically like what Rocket2DMn said. [23:30:6] duanedesign: That would be too close to the existing Education Team. [23:30:9] duanedesign: That is more like what our Education FG / UCLP is [23:30:20] i think in nearly all team names suggested 2 common words keep cropping up. beginners and team [23:30:51] which leaves us with UBT [23:31:10] We could be a task force =) [23:31:15] lol [23:31:18] Are there any other suggestions? Or are we just debating whether to stay with UFBT or change to UBT? [23:31:21] lol bodhi_zazen [23:31:23] "Ubuntu Beginners Task Force" [23:31:29] That would be a fun one [23:31:30] okies, im back [23:31:42] Hellow: +1 [23:31:45] what does the community know us as? should we not stick to what they know us as? [23:31:46] I think the real debase is UFBT vs UTB [23:32:0] We go beyond the forums [23:32:5] UBT [23:32:8] Forums should not be a part of our name [23:32:8] Squad, Company, Organization, Troop, Outfit, Federation, Crew...? [23:32:15] UBT has my vote [23:32:17] community knows us as the steam roller Ash_R [23:32:26] +1 [23:32:27] lol! [23:32:29] nice bodhi_zazen :) [23:32:43] but you understand my point [23:32:45] we're like goo, we just ooze into other areas of the community [23:33:4] lol [23:33:41] do we want to vote on this topic ? [23:33:44] Should we setup a LP vote or vote now? [23:34:5] Re-Education Team [23:34:10] I think we should vote, but the result is pretty clear [23:34:11] I think we may need to discuss this more, not everyone is here, and we need everyone's opinion on this. [23:34:20] bodhi_zazen: Do you think we have enough people here to really vote? [23:34:27] +1 for a vote, I don't think removing 'Forums' will cause anyone too much distress [23:34:31] +1 on further discussion, vote in say 2 weeks ? [23:34:31] I'm ok with delaying a vote or putting it on LP and mailing the list [23:34:44] 2 weeks sounds good [23:35:7] .vote "+1 Vote Now -1 Delay Vote 2 weeks" [23:35:7] We Are Now Voting On: +1 Vote Now -1 Delay Vote 2 weeks [23:35:7] Vote with +1, -1, or 0 [23:35:7] You can also /msg Votebot your vote [23:35:12] i am happt to vote now, but realise that some members are not present [23:35:15] -1 [23:35:15] -1 [23:35:18] 0 [23:35:20] +1 [23:35:21] 0 [23:35:28] -1 [23:35:30] 0 [23:35:35] +1 [23:35:35] +1 [23:35:43] 0 [23:35:43] 0 [23:35:43] May I ask what your voting on? [23:35:45] wants the team to be involved in this decision ;) [23:35:48] 0 [23:35:52] agrees with bodhi [23:35:57] Wiebelhaus1: Whether or not to delay the vote on the name change [23:36:7] Thanks mate. [23:36:8] .vote [23:36:8] We Are Done Voting On: +1 Vote Now -1 Delay Vote 2 weeks [23:36:8] 11 People Voted. 3 People For. 3 People Against. 5 People Neutral. [23:36:13] lol [23:36:21] haha [23:36:25] draw [23:36:25] that means bodhi decides :) [23:36:27] hello all [23:36:32] I think we should delay it [23:36:33] what are you vonting? [23:36:34] ubuntu all-rounder team :P [23:36:37] lets do a recount [23:36:37] I say discuss and vote in 2 weeks [23:36:38] what does bodhi_zazen think? [23:36:48] I will change to delay if you wish. [23:36:55] I think we need time for suggestions [23:37:1] if makes a diiference I thought +1 was to delay 2 weeks [23:37:1] fine with me, [23:37:2] +1 bodhi_zazen [23:37:15] where can we post suggestions? [23:37:26] i think we should make a wiki page for names [23:37:30] Let's have bodhi_zazen start a mailing list thread [23:37:31] OK discussion > mailing list | wiki page [23:37:31] Mailing list? I'll get that stared after the meeting if yall wish. [23:37:51] a wiki page is difficult to deal with for a whole team, i think mailing list + a LP vote is better [23:37:56] bodhi_zazen: We decided that the Mailing List should be used for agenda item discussions [23:38:0] Rocket2DMn: I like wiki page, people can leave comments, easier to read [23:38:15] bodhi_zazen, forums work best for that [23:38:15] LOL [23:38:38] mailing list ? [23:38:47] +1 on mailing list [23:39:1] and use the wiki for names suggested [23:39:3] +1 mailist list [23:39:18] ok, mailing list it is then :) [23:40:14] ok, lets move on [23:40:16] Next item - Python - Hellow [23:40:26] alrighty [23:40:31] PYTHON!!! [23:40:31] PERL!!! [23:40:44] lol [23:40:44] D!!! >:) [23:40:48] LeAstrale started a sort of "Quest for Python" [23:40:49] had to be done [23:40:55] can we please stay on topic? [23:41:48] We are basically helping each other to learn python, using the book "A byte of python" by Swaroop C H. [23:41:51] Hellow: is this an issue for the team or just an announcement ? [23:41:54] (sorry for the delay) [23:41:57] An announcement [23:42:4] is the book available on line ? [23:42:6] whats going on? [23:42:8] linky ? [23:42:12] Yes, its a free-to-download book [23:42:15] hold on [23:42:47] bodhi_zazen, to my understanding, this is going to be revolved around the beginners-dev team. [23:42:59] and there are several other free python books on-line... [23:43:12] Unless there is a need for discussion I say we move on w/ linky to be posted :) [23:43:30] ibuclaw, thats interesting. i am not planning to join that team yet, though i am still interested [23:43:32] Link to book through Google Docs: http://docs.google.com/fileview?id=F.a3b74a68-ecd7-4372-adc2-ab9abbbc1204 [23:43:38] which bring up .... [23:43:47] new members ? [23:43:58] Team Report Reflection [23:44:2] or is there anything to report from the FG ? [23:44:2] I dont think we have any [23:44:38] swoody: that link is no good :) [23:44:46] nhandler: who is doing team report ? [23:45:0] bodhi_zazen: This is a discussion item I would like to bring up [23:45:8] Edu FG has news doesnt it bodhi... [23:45:36] Actual link for 'A Byte of Python': http://www.swaroopch.com/notes/Python [23:45:40] For reference, the book is located here (in HTML): http://www.ibiblio.org/g2swap/byteofpython/read/ [23:46:4] Vantrax: news from Edu FG ? [23:46:11] we went b4 the CC today [23:46:23] to announce our UCLP project [23:46:24] and they love us:P [23:46:28] welcome dinda :) [23:46:43] LOL [23:46:53] couldn't find the channel - you mistyped it in the meeting room [23:46:57] they wanted to know why we were there is more like it [23:47:6] dinda: JanC corrected him shortly after ;) [23:47:7] Oh, sorry dinda :( [23:47:15] LOL bodhi_zazen [23:47:38] thought everyone knew this channel =) [23:47:40] welcome w4ett [23:48:6] nhandler: whic hwas the reason why I corrected it publicly ;) [23:48:11] sorry dinda [23:48:18] We are going to theme the moodle site, although I may want to change over to apache and mysql [23:48:28] if anyone has an opinion, talk to me later [23:48:48] if anyone has mad css/gimp skills see me later:P [23:48:50] right now I am running lighttp + postgre [23:48:53] which wasn't good enough apparently :-/ [23:48:58] bodhi_zazen, do you have a link at hand? [23:49:14] link for what Ash_R ? [23:49:23] http://learn.ufbt.net/ [23:49:25] the moodle site [23:49:29] ^^ [23:49:32] thank you [23:49:35] np [23:49:46] o/ [23:49:52] go nhandler :) [23:49:55] We have been doing team reporting for about a month. I want to get the team's opinions about the stuff that we have been including or about the reports in general. Any suggestions / comments? [23:50:3] I was going to ask , any other FG ? [23:50:22] has to run to dinner and wanted to get that out there [23:50:26] nhandler: I have not had time to read it, lol [23:50:27] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/TeamReports [23:50:39] Ash_R: log in with openid, use your LP account [23:50:48] has paul tag said anything about IRC focus group? [23:51:2] time zones playing havoc and all that [23:51:50] very nice nhandler :) [23:52:2] no Ash_R , any news ? [23:52:25] nhandler, for team reports, can you email the list a bit in advance of when reports are due so FGs can update the page? [23:52:41] bodhi_zazen, not as such. i know he took over from Joeb454 as a part lead. i was curious to see if i have missed anything [23:52:54] kk [23:53:29] the education FG will be looking to add content to the UCLP site in the near future :) [23:53:50] I think that is about all we have for the meeting this month [23:53:55] any other issues ? [23:53:58] questions ? [23:54:44] I have one final issue then :) [23:54:54] let us say behavior on this channel [23:55:4] first, thank you to everyone for improving [23:55:26] I would like to remind people, we have a diverse group now [23:55:54] some people ( bodhi_zazen ) are old (farts) and mature [23:55:59] just wait till compiledkernel shows up [23:56:1] others are younger [23:56:22] Vantrax: dont say that word :P [23:56:31] <- some are somewhere in the middle [23:56:36] I know the younger ones take a little more time sometimes, please direct them to me if then need some guidence [23:56:53] <- and some are the complete opposite of old [23:56:59] or if there are other members willing to mentor young ones let me know [23:57:9] bodhi_zazen: what's that i hear about younger ones? [23:57:9] Hellow: youngster :P [23:57:16] jgoguen: yep :P [23:57:16] bodhi_zazen: what do you mean by guidance? ;) [23:57:22] if your in the asia pacific timezone and need a mentor come see me:P [23:57:32] i would not mind bodhi_zazen , but i do not feel qualified. [23:57:37] is already mentoring someone [23:58:16] o/I think it is important to resolve issues/differences right away. Dont hold grudges or develop animosity towards each other. [23:58:18] Sometimes young people, say less then 30, especially less then 20, need a little more education re netiquette [23:58:22] who hear lives in (-4) [23:58:23] bodhi_zazen: do you mean mentoring like the masters or something different? [23:58:34] yvan300: UTC-4? [23:58:48] jgoguen: thats it :) [23:58:50] no, mentoring in terms of immature behavior in this channel :) [23:59:2] yvan300: depends on the time of year, I'm either in UTC-3 or UTC-4...right now I'm UTC-3 [23:59:6] w/o mentioning specific names [23:59:11] lol [23:59:27] oh, i can do that...i think anyway [23:59:30] JanC, we attract quite a few enthusiasts in their teens, by all means, they mean well. But can be noisey without realising it. :) [23:59:31] bodhi_zazen: if people need to learn netiquette, feel free to point them to me ;) [23:59:35] bodhi_zazen: who do you mean, montel, right :) [23:59:36] awesome Ash_R :) [23:59:36] bodhi_zazen: I don't mind taking people and explaining how things work [23:59:44] bodhi_zazen, thank you. [23:59:47] ibuclaw: hey! [23:59:51] lol [23:59:56] speaking of montel, how is he doing ? [0:0:6] has no idea on Montel [0:0:7] lol [0:0:19] he should be online soon [0:0:36] o/ [0:0:38] bodhi_zazen, i have not seen montel since he wiped his blog database or something [0:0:40] Montel - you can lead noobs to documentation, but you can not make them read :) [0:0:53] haha [0:0:57] moves to end meeting [0:1:2] LOL [0:1:8] well, if this channel is going to stay, I'll add it to my auto-join list... [0:1:9] bodhi_zazen: sudo aptitude purge $all_packages [0:1:13] bodhi_zazen, there was a similar discussion about stickies in the forums [0:1:22] JanC: you are most welcome to this channel [0:1:35] ibuclaw: something like the quickest way to get a thread ignored is to sticky it? :) [0:2:5] naw, I just close threads that have need answered in a sticky [0:2:16] w/ a message, there is a reason they are a sticky :) [0:2:20] JanC: who are you? [0:2:26] seems to work w/o causing too much havoc [0:2:47] yvan300, a lugwv member, apparently ;) [0:2:51] any other team issues ? [0:2:54] The weird thing about stickies is that I gloss over them, so I never notice when there are new posts. It really is the best way to get people to ignore things. [0:2:56] ibuclaw: OBVIOUSNESS [0:2:56] or end meeting ? [0:2:58] ;p [0:3:2] lets end it [0:3:18] i think meeting is over [0:3:25] .meeting [0:3:25] =-=-=Meeting mode disabled=-=-= }}} ---- CategoryBeginnersTeam