20090630
General Agenda Items and Proposals
PLEASE COME TO THE MEETINGS PREPARED.
This means:
- If there is an issue for the team, add it to the agenda.
- Agenda items then should be discussed "informally" on #ubuntufourms-beginners. 90 % of the discussion should have taken place before the meeting.
- Meetings are primarily for decision making/team votes. Read the agenda and discuss your thoughts before the meeting. 10 % (or less) of the discussion should happen during the meeting.
- Agenda items that require more then 5 minutes of discussion may need to be deferred.
Who |
What |
Get rid of Jedi Fellows |
|
Transition from ##beginners-foo to #ubuntu-beginners-foo |
|
Council members and Focus Group Leaders should sign Leadership Code of Conduct |
Agenda discussion
Get rid of Jedi Fellows: According to BeginnersTeam/Structure, a Jedi Fellow is a Beginners Team member who is also an Ubuntu member. This grants no special powers/privileges, and is designed to encourage Beginners Team members to become Ubuntu members. I do not think that we should be encouraging people to become Ubuntu members in order to be listed as a Jedi Fellow.
Transition from ##beginners-foo to #ubuntu-beginners-foo: As the ##beginners-foo IRC channels are part of the Beginners Team, they should be in the Beginners Team namespace. I have checked with Pricey, and there is no Freenode or Ubuntu IRC policy restricting us from doing this. I think moving to #ubuntu-beginners-foo will make it clear that these channels are part of the Beginners Team. We can follow this guide to help us move the channels.
Council members and Focus Group Leaders should sign Leadership Code of Conduct: The Leadership Code of Conduct holds leaders in the Ubuntu community to a higher standard than the normal Code of Conduct. As Council members and Focus Group leaders are leaders on an official Ubuntu team, I feel that it is important that all members sign the Leadership Code of Conduct in addition to the standard Code of Conduct (which they already should have signed). As Launchpad currently does not offer a place to upload signed copies of the Leadership Code of Conduct, I propose emailing a signed copy to the Ubuntu Beginners Team Council mailing list. If the rest of the team is interested in verifying that all leaders sign this Code of Conduct, we could also have the messages CCed to the Ubuntu Beginners Team mailing list.
Log
1 [00:01] <bodhi_zazen> #startmeeting
2
3 [00:01] <MootBot> Meeting started at 18:01. The chair is bodhi_zazen.
4
5 [00:01] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
6
7 [00:01] <nhandler> Agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/Meetings
8
9 [00:01] <nhandler> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/Meetings
10
11 [00:01] <MootBot> LINK received: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/Meetings
12
13 [00:01] <bodhi_zazen> yipee
14
15 [00:02] <bodhi_zazen> you want to do agenda items first ?
16
17 [00:02] <nhandler> Sure bodhi_zazen, but can we move the first item until the end of the agenda? It will require a little discussion
18
19 [00:03] <bodhi_zazen> oops ...
20
21 [00:03] <bodhi_zazen> sure
22
23 [00:03] <bodhi_zazen> [TOPIC] Transition from ## to #
24
25 [00:03] <MootBot> New Topic: Transition from ## to #
26
27 [00:03] <nhandler> Currently, we have our FG channels using the naming scheme ##beginners-foo
28
29 [00:03] <bodhi_zazen> you are up nhandler
30
31 [00:04] <nhandler> As they are part of our team, they should really use #ubuntu-beginners-foo
32
33 [00:04] <bodhi_zazen> +1
34
35 [00:04] <swoody> +1 nhandler
36
37 [00:04] <nhandler> I have talked with Pricey, and there is no Freenode/Ubuntu IRC policy prohibiting this
38
39 [00:04] <bodhi_zazen> just for a little history, if I recall long ago we did just this and were asked to move to ##
40
41 [00:04] <bodhi_zazen> so I do not mind moving back
42
43 [00:04] <nhandler> It will make it clear to other users that the FG channels are in the Ubuntu namespace, and all Ubuntu rules apply in there
44
45 [00:05] <bodhi_zazen> we will have to update the wiki - AGAIN - lol
46
47 [00:05] <nhandler> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IrcTeam/MovingChannels
48
49 [00:05] <MootBot> LINK received: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IrcTeam/MovingChannels
50
51 [00:05] <Ash_R> At least rocket won't find out until after the holiday.
52
53 [00:05] <bodhi_zazen> I will move -council
54
55 [00:05] <nhandler> That wiki page explains how to move the channels
56
57 [00:05] <nhandler> I would like to ask all FG leaders to move their own channel (if the vote passes)
58
59 [00:05] <Joeb454> I think it's probably for the best, as you say, makes it clear what the channels are
60
61 [00:05] <bodhi_zazen> do you want to vote on this ?
62
63 [00:06] <nhandler> I think we should bodhi_zazen
64
65 [00:06] <Joeb454> that said - I think the channel names could become very long
66
67 [00:06] <bodhi_zazen> LOL nhandler
68
69 [00:06] <bodhi_zazen> [VOTE] move to #
70
71 [00:06] <MootBot> Please vote on: move to #.
72
73 [00:06] <MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to MootBot
74
75 [00:06] <MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
76
77 [00:06] <nhandler> +1
78
79 [00:06] <MootBot> +1 received from nhandler. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
80
81 [00:06] <bodhi_zazen> +1
82
83 [00:06] <MootBot> +1 received from bodhi_zazen. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
84
85 [00:06] <drs305> +1
86
87 [00:06] <sdennie> 0
88
89 [00:06] <MootBot> +1 received from drs305. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
90
91 [00:06] <swoody> +1
92
93 [00:06] <MootBot> +1 received from swoody. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
94
95 [00:06] <Ash_R> +1
96
97 [00:06] <MootBot> +1 received from Ash_R. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 5
98
99 [00:06] <Joeb454> +1
100
101 [00:06] <MootBot> +1 received from Joeb454. 6 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 6
102
103 [00:06] <w4ett> +1
104
105 [00:06] <MootBot> +1 received from w4ett. 7 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 7
106
107 [00:07] <bodhi_zazen> any mor evotes ?
108
109 [00:07] <sdennie> Huh. Apparently 0 doesn't mean abstained
110
111 [00:07] <nhandler> sdennie: +0
112
113 [00:07] <sdennie> +0
114
115 [00:07] <MootBot> Abstention received from sdennie. 7 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 7
116
117 [00:07] <bodhi_zazen> [ENDVOTE]
118
119 [00:07] <MootBot> Final result is 7 for, 0 against. 1 abstained. Total: 7
120
121 [00:07] <bodhi_zazen> [AGREED]Move to #
122
123 [00:07] <MootBot> AGREED received: Move to #
124
125 [00:07] <bodhi_zazen> :)
126
127 [00:08] <nhandler> bodhi_zazen: So you will move -council, and FG leads will move their own channels, correct?
128
129 [00:08] <bodhi_zazen> [TOPIC] Council members and Focus Group Leaders should sign Leadership Code of Conduct
130
131 [00:08] <MootBot> New Topic: Council members and Focus Group Leaders should sign Leadership Code of Conduct
132
133 [00:08] <bodhi_zazen> yes nhandler
134
135 [00:08] <nhandler> [LINK] http://www.ubuntu.com/community/leadership-conduct
136
137 [00:08] <MootBot> LINK received: http://www.ubuntu.com/community/leadership-conduct
138
139 [00:08] <Joeb454> there's a leadership CoC? lol
140
141 [00:08] <nhandler> The Leadership Code of Conduct holds leaders in the Ubuntu community to a higher standard than the normal Code of Conduct. As Council members and Focus Group leaders are leaders on an official Ubuntu team, I feel that it is important that all members sign the Leadership Code of Conduct in addition to the standard Code of Conduct (which they already should have signed). As Launchpad currently does not offer a place to upload signed copies
142
143 [00:08] * Joeb454 takes a few mins to read the link
144
145 [00:09] <bodhi_zazen> any commnets on that ?
146
147 [00:09] <bodhi_zazen> I already signed so pfft :)
148
149 [00:09] <Saj0577> dont start vote reading time please :D
150
151 [00:09] <Joeb454> well I think it's fair, though it probably means I need another key, and I'll have to be reminded how to sign things =/
152
153 [00:09] <Ash_R> i think its a good idea
154
155 [00:09] <bodhi_zazen> how would you have them sign it nhandler
156
157 [00:10] <nhandler> bodhi_zazen: The same way as the normal CoC is signed (GPG Clearsign). We would then email it to the -council mailing list, and possibly CC the full team list (if desired)
158
159 [00:10] <bodhi_zazen> LP does the CoC, does it do the Leadership CoC as well ?
160
161 [00:10] <nhandler> No
162
163 [00:10] <nhandler> That is why I proposed emailing it to the list
164
165 [00:10] <bodhi_zazen> Well, it it is not tracked in LP, I do not want to track it either :)
166
167 [00:11] <bodhi_zazen> I think a signed CoC on LP and awareness of the Leadersip CoC is sufficient
168
169 [00:11] <Ash_R> can we not push for it to be tracked through launchpad?
170
171 [00:11] <sdennie> I tend to agree with bodhi_zazen on this. If it's a haphazard method of tracking, it doesn't mean much.
172
173 [00:11] <w4ett> bodhi_zazen: +1
174
175 [00:12] <bodhi_zazen> nhandler: do any other team require a signed leadership CoC ?
176
177 [00:13] <pleia2> no, but there is a LP bug about it
178
179 [00:13] <pleia2> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-community/+bug/392976
180
181 [00:13] <ubottu> Ubuntu bug 392976 in ubuntu-community "Leadership CoC not given to LoCo Leads" [Undecided,New]
182
183 [00:13] <pleia2> mentions that it probably should be :)
184
185 [00:13] <sdennie> Maybe we should bring the subject up again if/when the bug is fixed
186
187 [00:14] <bodhi_zazen> +1 sdennie
188
189 [00:14] <Ash_R> +1 sdennie
190
191 [00:14] <bodhi_zazen> and perhaps we should nudge the bug trackers :)
192
193 [00:14] <pleia2> it's a brand new bug
194
195 [00:14] <pleia2> only 3 days old
196
197 [00:14] <bodhi_zazen> any other comments b4 we vote ?
198
199 [00:15] <Saj0577> I think it is a good idea so why not set the example in saying we should sign it?
200
201 [00:15] <nhandler> Just because it is not tracked on LP is no reason not to hold our team leaders to it
202
203 [00:15] <swoody> +1 nhandler
204
205 [00:15] <Saj0577> agreed.
206
207 [00:15] <Ash_R> i agree also
208
209 [00:15] <Joeb454> I'm sort of mid-field on this one
210
211 [00:15] <sdennie> Saj0577: Do you plan to get my public key and verify that the stuff at the bottom of my signature is indeed a signature and not just random characters?
212
213 [00:15] <swoody> I think it would be a great show if we take the initiative and start a push ourselves
214
215 [00:16] <bodhi_zazen> holding team leaders to it and gpg signing it are separate though
216
217 [00:16] <Joeb454> I agree that team leaders should be aware of it, and have read it (I've just finished reading) - but there's no way to see if they have done that
218
219 [00:16] <bodhi_zazen> gpg signing means we need a way to track
220
221 [00:16] <sdennie> bodhi_zazen: Right. Holding team leaders to it is fine in my opinion
222
223 [00:16] <nhandler> bodhi_zazen: If they have not signed it, they never really agreed to follow it
224
225 [00:16] <Ash_R> i have been aware of it for a while. never seen it mentioned anywhere else though
226
227 [00:16] <nhandler> bodhi_zazen: If we have a signed copy of it on the ML, we can track it ;)
228
229 [00:16] <bodhi_zazen> it does not really matter if they agree nhandler , we will hold them to it anyways, lol
230
231 [00:17] <Ash_R> then that is holding them to something they did not agree to bodhi_zazen
232
233 [00:17] <bodhi_zazen> indeed Ash_R
234
235 [00:17] <Saj0577> Ash_R but if they got an objection too it do we really want them as a team leader?
236
237 [00:18] <nhandler> The Leadership CoC is more of a formality. I doubt that any of our current leaders will be violating it (even if unsigned)
238
239 [00:18] <bodhi_zazen> I do not think it is unreasonable to hold "leaders" to a higher standard
240
241 [00:18] <bodhi_zazen> and that is the other issue nhandler
242
243 [00:18] <Ash_R> Saj0577, having seen the terms they would have had opportunity to back out
244
245 [00:18] <cprofitt> is there even a way to sign it nhandler ?
246
247 [00:18] <nhandler> cprofitt: GPG clearsign
248
249 [00:18] <swoody> I think we should implement it with all new team leads. Sort of like a EULA where they have to accept to abide by the code to become a lead in the first place.
250
251 [00:18] <sdennie> I really don't see this as an issue. The Leadership CoC is common sense stuff. I'd be happy to sign it if there were an official way to track it. There isn't so, I'm not sure what good signing it will do.
252
253 [00:18] <bodhi_zazen> people who violate the principles generally are not in leadership positions
254
255 [00:19] <pleia2> On the CoC page: "In addition to this Code of Conduct, we hold our community leaders (such as IRC operators, Forums staff, team leaders and LoCo coordinators) to an even higher standard which is documented in the Leadership Code of Conduct."
256
257 [00:19] <pleia2> so in theory, leaders *are* bound by it already
258
259 [00:19] <cprofitt> nhandler, but is there a 'process' as there is for the CoC?
260
261 [00:19] <bodhi_zazen> +1 pleia2
262
263 [00:19] <Joeb454> pleia2: it does? damn...I'm in 3 of those categories ;)
264
265 [00:19] <nhandler> cprofitt: The 'process' for the normal CoC is mainly to get it to show up on LP. All we would do is GPG clearsign it and email it to the mailing list (which is publicly accessible)
266
267 [00:20] <Joeb454> but you do have a good point there
268
269 [00:20] <bodhi_zazen> I think people in leadership are bound by the principles and we should ask them to file a signed CoC on LP
270
271 [00:20] <sdennie> nhandler: But, as I said, is anyone going to go to the trouble to see if it's actually signed or just has a bunch of random characters at the bottom?
272
273 [00:20] <bodhi_zazen> in addition when LP is able to track a Leadership CoC , add it in
274
275 [00:20] <cprofitt> nhandler, who would record that it had been signed? When it is modified who would send out a notice to re-sign it? If I change my gpg would I have to resign it?
276
277 [00:20] <sdennie> I agree with bodhi_zazen
278
279 [00:20] <nhandler> sdennie: I would have no issue verifying all of the signatures
280
281 [00:21] <bodhi_zazen> a signed CoC essentially includes the leadership clauses, IMO
282
283 [00:21] <cprofitt> bodhi_zazen, +1
284
285 [00:21] <cprofitt> unless there is a way to track it... I think it is likely more 'trouble' than it is worth
286
287 [00:21] <sdennie> I say shelve the issue or vote on it. We are just talking in circles.
288
289 [00:21] <cprofitt> certainly if a leader violates it they should be questioned by the remaining leaders
290
291 [00:21] <nhandler> Most of that 'tracking' stuff you were asking about cprofitt isn't even available for the normal CoC
292
293 [00:21] <nhandler> The Leadership CoC should also remain relatively stable
294
295 [00:22] <cprofitt> nhandler, then I see no value in signatures...
296
297 [00:22] <bodhi_zazen> [Vote] Leaders gpg sign Leadership CoC
298
299 [00:22] <MootBot> Please vote on: Leaders gpg sign Leadership CoC.
300
301 [00:22] <MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to MootBot
302
303 [00:22] <MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
304
305 [00:22] <sdennie> -1
306
307 [00:22] <cprofitt> leaders by default agree to it
308
309 [00:22] <MootBot> -1 received from sdennie. 0 for, 1 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -1
310
311 [00:22] <bodhi_zazen> -1
312
313 [00:22] <MootBot> -1 received from bodhi_zazen. 0 for, 2 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -2
314
315 [00:22] <cprofitt> -1
316
317 [00:22] <MootBot> -1 received from cprofitt. 0 for, 3 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -3
318
319 [00:22] <drs305> +0
320
321 [00:22] <MootBot> Abstention received from drs305. 0 for, 3 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now -3
322
323 [00:22] <Saj0577> -1
324
325 [00:22] <MootBot> -1 received from Saj0577. 0 for, 4 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now -4
326
327 [00:22] <duanedesign> +0
328
329 [00:22] <swoody> -1
330
331 [00:22] <MootBot> Abstention received from duanedesign. 0 for, 4 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now -4
332
333 [00:22] <MootBot> -1 received from swoody. 0 for, 5 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now -5
334
335 [00:22] <w4ett> +0
336
337 [00:22] <Ash_R> -1
338
339 [00:22] <MootBot> Abstention received from w4ett. 0 for, 5 against. 3 have abstained. Count is now -5
340
341 [00:22] <MootBot> -1 received from Ash_R. 0 for, 6 against. 3 have abstained. Count is now -6
342
343 [00:22] <nhandler> +1
344
345 [00:22] <MootBot> +1 received from nhandler. 1 for, 6 against. 3 have abstained. Count is now -5
346
347 [00:22] <Joeb454> +0
348
349 [00:22] <MootBot> Abstention received from Joeb454. 1 for, 6 against. 4 have abstained. Count is now -5
350
351 [00:23] <bodhi_zazen> any other votes
352
353 [00:23] <cprofitt> three times for Robert's Rules bodhi_zazen
354
355 [00:23] <Ash_R> we seem to be short on numbers.
356
357 [00:24] <cprofitt> pain, but the process
358
359 [00:24] <bodhi_zazen> [ENDVOTE]
360
361 [00:24] <MootBot> Final result is 1 for, 6 against. 4 abstained. Total: -5
362
363 [00:24] <bodhi_zazen> [VOTE]Bring issue up when we can track the document on LP
364
365 [00:24] <MootBot> Please vote on: Bring issue up when we can track the document on LP.
366
367 [00:24] <MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to MootBot
368
369 [00:24] <MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
370
371 [00:24] <bodhi_zazen> +1
372
373 [00:24] <MootBot> +1 received from bodhi_zazen. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
374
375 [00:24] <nhandler> +1
376
377 [00:24] <MootBot> +1 received from nhandler. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
378
379 [00:24] <Ash_R> +1
380
381 [00:24] <MootBot> +1 received from Ash_R. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
382
383 [00:24] <swoody> +1
384
385 [00:24] <MootBot> +1 received from swoody. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
386
387 [00:24] <sdennie> +1
388
389 [00:24] <MootBot> +1 received from sdennie. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 5
390
391 [00:24] <w4ett> +1
392
393 [00:25] <MootBot> +1 received from w4ett. 6 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 6
394
395 [00:25] <Saj0577> +1
396
397 [00:25] <cprofitt> +0
398
399 [00:25] <MootBot> +1 received from Saj0577. 7 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 7
400
401 [00:25] <MootBot> Abstention received from cprofitt. 7 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 7
402
403 [00:25] <Joeb454> +0
404
405 [00:25] <MootBot> Abstention received from Joeb454. 7 for, 0 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 7
406
407 [00:25] <duanedesign> +0
408
409 [00:25] <MootBot> Abstention received from duanedesign. 7 for, 0 against. 3 have abstained. Count is now 7
410
411 [00:25] <drs305> +1
412
413 [00:25] <MootBot> +1 received from drs305. 8 for, 0 against. 3 have abstained. Count is now 8
414
415 [00:25] <bodhi_zazen> any mor evotes ?
416
417 [00:25] <bodhi_zazen> [ENDVOTE]
418
419 [00:25] <MootBot> Final result is 8 for, 0 against. 3 abstained. Total: 8
420
421 [00:26] <bodhi_zazen> [ACTION]Bring the issue of Leaders signing Leadership CoC when we can track it on LP
422
423 [00:26] <MootBot> ACTION received: Bring the issue of Leaders signing Leadership CoC when we can track it on LP
424
425 [00:26] <bodhi_zazen> [TOPIC]Get rid of Jedi Fellows
426
427 [00:26] <MootBot> New Topic: Get rid of Jedi Fellows
428
429 [00:26] <nhandler> bodhi_zazen: Would you (or another council member) like to give a status update of the charter now?
430
431 [00:27] <bodhi_zazen> REMINDER 30 min left :)
432
433 [00:27] <bodhi_zazen> nhandler:
434
435 [00:27] <bodhi_zazen> nhandler: do you want to table your agenda item ?
436
437 [00:27] <nhandler> I guess we can do it now (and the status update after)
438
439 [00:27] <bodhi_zazen> Well, I do not see charter on the agenda
440
441 [00:27] <sdennie> I talked with nhandler about this topic but, I don't think getting rid of the Jedi Fellows is needed
442
443 [00:28] <nhandler> A Jedi Fellow is a Beginners Team member who is also an Ubuntu member. This grants no special powers/privileges, and is designed to encourage Beginners Team members to become Ubuntu members. I do not think that we should be encouraging people to become Ubuntu members in order to be listed as a Jedi Fellow.
444
445 [00:28] <bodhi_zazen> which although important, means
446
447 [00:28] <bodhi_zazen> agenda items first
448
449 [00:28] <bodhi_zazen> then new members
450
451 [00:28] <cprofitt> I see no reason to get rid of the Jedi Fellows...
452
453 [00:28] <bodhi_zazen> and comments from FG
454
455 [00:28] <cprofitt> there is no reason to not recognize them
456
457 [00:28] <Ash_R> bodhi_zazen, comments on what sorry :)
458
459 [00:28] <nhandler> No other Ubuntu *team* recognizes Ubuntu members. Only *areas* of the community (Forums, IRC, LP, etc) recognize them
460
461 [00:28] <bodhi_zazen> I am neutral tending to want to encourage Ubuntu Membership
462
463 [00:29] <nhandler> bodhi_zazen: I think we should encourage Ubuntu Membership, but not with a title
464
465 [00:29] <bodhi_zazen> FG leads should at least give us an update or things they need from the team
466
467 [00:29] <sdennie> I think a lot of people use the BT as an easy to access stepping stone into the Ubuntu community. Knowing the people that have been recognized as Ubuntu members seems important to me.
468
469 [00:29] <cprofitt> it was not meant to encourage people to become a member for 'recognition' but to cast it in a positive light
470
471 [00:29] <Saj0577> I think it may influence people to become members who otherwise would not seek it.
472
473 [00:29] <cprofitt> nhandler, we are not other teams
474
475 [00:29] <Ash_R> oh right. in that case i have something to add if time allows bodhi_zazen
476
477 [00:29] <cprofitt> BT is the team that helps guide users in to the rest of the Ubuntu Community Cosmos
478
479 [00:30] <sdennie> cprofitt: I agree
480
481 [00:30] <bodhi_zazen> OK Ash_R :)
482
483 [00:30] <drs305> I don't care what they are called but feel there should be an easy way to identify BT Ubuntu members
484
485 [00:30] <bodhi_zazen> wait ... Ash_R
486
487 [00:30] <nhandler> You can get that info by 1) Looking at the group on the forums 2) Looking at our cloaks 3) The +members page on LP
488
489 [00:30] <cprofitt> if nothing else having such recognition serves to make new people aware that such a recognition exists from the Ubuntu community
490
491 [00:31] <cprofitt> nhandler, Yes, but as a team we are the gateway to that information
492
493 [00:31] <cprofitt> we server the purpose making people aware of that
494
495 [00:31] <sdennie> Again I agree with cprofitt
496
497 [00:31] <bodhi_zazen> I think recognition is important as I do think this team helps people move from forums -> Greater Ubuntu Community
498
499 [00:31] <nhandler> cprofitt: So we can link them to those locations instead of reproducing the list ourselves
500
501 [00:31] <bodhi_zazen> and most team members feel it helps :)
502
503 [00:31] <cprofitt> if people can only see that in the traditional ways then we do not need to 'guide' them
504
505 [00:31] <cprofitt> I disagree nhandler
506
507 [00:31] <nhandler> If we feel the need to have a list, I would like to propose using the LP api to generate it
508
509 [00:32] <cprofitt> just because there are other ways does not mean we should not recognize them and provide another way
510
511 [00:32] <drs305> None of those are well known or comprehensive, nor directly connected to the team.
512
513 [00:32] <cprofitt> what 'problems' do you have with the recognition
514
515 === yofel_ is now known as yofel
516
517 [00:32] <nhandler> cprofitt: The wiki page requires us to manually update it, and it has frequently been out-dated
518
519 [00:32] <cprofitt> nhandler, that is true of many of the wiki pages
520
521 [00:32] <cprofitt> it is easy enough to have people who become members update it themselves
522
523 [00:33] <cprofitt> if they want to be listed
524
525 [00:33] <bodhi_zazen> +1 cprofitt
526
527 [00:33] <bodhi_zazen> it is not "our" responsibility to keep that info up to date
528
529 [00:33] <drs305> Once a member, always a member unless they leave the team. The list would have to be updated once. Let the members list themselves.
530
531 [00:33] <drs305> * What cprofitt said!
532
533 [00:33] <Saj0577> drs305 only lasts 2 years then needs renewing i believe.
534
535 [00:33] <bodhi_zazen> and when people recieve recognition they are usually quite willing to add in their names ;)
536
537 [00:33] <cprofitt> +1 bodhi_zazen
538
539 [00:34] <drs305> ty Saj0577
540
541 [00:34] <bodhi_zazen> are we ready to vote ?
542
543 [00:34] <cprofitt> Saj0577, true
544
545 [00:34] <nhandler> bodhi_zazen: Willing isn't the issue. Many people don't know the list exists and needs updating
546
547 [00:34] <cprofitt> I am bodhi_zazen
548
549 [00:34] <cprofitt> nhandler, then educate them about the list -- do not get rid of it because it requires a bit of work
550
551 [00:34] <nhandler> This is why I suggested using the LP API to generate it
552
553 [00:34] <bodhi_zazen> any additional comments prior to vote ?
554
555 [00:34] <Ash_R> i am ready to vote.
556
557 [00:34] <nhandler> It would always be up-to-date
558
559 [00:35] <cprofitt> I think there are far more positives to it than negatives
560
561 [00:35] * Saj0577 has a point for AOB
562
563 [00:35] <bodhi_zazen> [Vote]Get rid of Jedi Fellows
564
565 [00:35] <MootBot> Please vote on: Get rid of Jedi Fellows.
566
567 [00:35] <MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to MootBot
568
569 [00:35] <MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
570
571 [00:35] <cprofitt> and the work and effort is worth it
572
573 [00:35] <cprofitt> -1
574
575 [00:35] <MootBot> -1 received from cprofitt. 0 for, 1 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -1
576
577 [00:35] <Joeb454> +0
578
579 [00:35] <swoody> -1
580
581 [00:35] <MootBot> Abstention received from Joeb454. 0 for, 1 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now -1
582
583 [00:35] <MootBot> -1 received from swoody. 0 for, 2 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now -2
584
585 [00:35] <drs305> -1
586
587 [00:35] <MootBot> -1 received from drs305. 0 for, 3 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now -3
588
589 [00:35] <duanedesign> -1
590
591 [00:35] <MootBot> -1 received from duanedesign. 0 for, 4 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now -4
592
593 [00:35] <sdennie> -1
594
595 [00:35] <MootBot> -1 received from sdennie. 0 for, 5 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now -5
596
597 [00:35] <bodhi_zazen> +0
598
599 [00:35] <MootBot> Abstention received from bodhi_zazen. 0 for, 5 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now -5
600
601 [00:35] <w4ett> -1
602
603 [00:35] <MootBot> -1 received from w4ett. 0 for, 6 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now -6
604
605 [00:35] <Saj0577> +0
606
607 [00:35] <Ash_R> -1
608
609 [00:35] <MootBot> -1 received from Ash_R. 0 for, 7 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now -7
610
611 [00:35] <MootBot> Abstention received from Saj0577. 0 for, 7 against. 3 have abstained. Count is now -7
612
613 [00:35] <nhandler> +1
614
615 [00:35] <MootBot> +1 received from nhandler. 1 for, 7 against. 3 have abstained. Count is now -6
616
617 [00:35] <bodhi_zazen> Any additional votes ?
618
619 [00:36] <bodhi_zazen> [ENDVOTE]
620
621 [00:36] <MootBot> Final result is 1 for, 7 against. 3 abstained. Total: -6
622
623 [00:36] <bodhi_zazen> [AGREED] Keep Jedi Fellows
624
625 [00:36] <MootBot> AGREED received: Keep Jedi Fellows
626
627 [00:37] <bodhi_zazen> do we want to talk charter ?
628
629 [00:37] <bodhi_zazen> or hear from FG and new members ?
630
631 [00:37] <nhandler> bodhi_zazen: I think a status update of the charter would be nice
632
633 [00:37] <bodhi_zazen> charter may be short or long
634
635 [00:37] <nhandler> Just a status update (no discussion)
636
637 [00:37] <Ash_R> i think new members
638
639 [00:37] <bodhi_zazen> +1 nhandler
640
641 [00:37] <cprofitt> new members then status updates
642
643 [00:37] <bodhi_zazen> any objections 9as it was not on the agenda)
644
645 [00:38] <cprofitt> charter good too...
646
647 [00:38] <swoody> +1 charter
648
649 [00:38] <nhandler> bodhi_zazen: It was an action from the last meeting
650
651 [00:38] <bodhi_zazen> [TOPIC]Charter
652
653 [00:38] <MootBot> New Topic: Charter
654
655 [00:38] <bodhi_zazen> nhandler: well it really needs to be on the agenda :)
656
657 [00:38] <nhandler> bodhi_zazen: We didn't have our meeting to discuss it until yesterday ;)
658
659 [00:39] <nhandler> Would another leader like to summarize?
660
661 [00:39] <cprofitt> feel free nhandler
662
663 [00:39] <bodhi_zazen> I know, but if we or you were even thinking of discussing it, it really should have been added, and canceled if needed (IMO) for future meetings
664
665 [00:39] <Joeb454> nhandler: go ahead :)
666
667 [00:40] <nhandler> We started puting some ideas on the wiki for a charter: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/Council/Charter
668
669 [00:40] <nhandler> As a note, that is simply a draft. We will be cleaning it up and reorganizing it soon
670
671 [00:40] <bodhi_zazen> nhandler: just so we know, who is "we" ?
672
673 [00:40] <nhandler> We in this case is the BT Council
674
675 [00:40] <bodhi_zazen> just curious as to who fees we need to change is all
676
677 [00:41] <bodhi_zazen> TY
678
679 [00:41] <nhandler> For those of you who have suggestions/comments about the charter, please feel free to contact the council either on IRC or via email (to the list)
680
681 [00:41] <cprofitt> feels
682
683 [00:42] <bodhi_zazen> For others, in the past this has been here :
684
685 [00:42] <bodhi_zazen> [LINK]https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/Council/
686
687 [00:42] <MootBot> LINK received: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/Council/
688
689 [00:42] <nhandler> bodhi_zazen: That page is relatively new and just a copy/paste from the Structure page
690
691 [00:43] <bodhi_zazen> well, yes is new, but the content is not new
692
693 [00:43] <bodhi_zazen> it is not as if we are just starting to discuss the role of the council
694
695 [00:44] <bodhi_zazen> the first link does not have any history behind it , and people outside the discussion can not follow without the page I linked
696
697 [00:44] <sdennie> I'm not sure if we should dwell on this much tonight if there is more business to attend to
698
699 [00:44] <nhandler> I am fine with moving on sdennie
700
701 [00:44] <bodhi_zazen> I think the page I linked is sufficient, but am open to suggestions if anything needs to be added or changed
702
703 [00:45] <bodhi_zazen> I would like to have some idea of where we are going with this, at least a general trend
704
705 [00:45] <bodhi_zazen> or is the page I linked sufficient ?
706
707 [00:45] <Saj0577> sufficient
708
709 [00:46] <bodhi_zazen> nhandler: or anyone else have any suggestions ?
710
711 [00:46] <nhandler> bodhi_zazen: We (BT Council) will be talking more with paultag and other users who expressed strong opinions on the mailing list thread
712
713 [00:46] <Ash_R> can this be put on the next agenda as it would give members who are not present to think on it
714
715 [00:46] <nhandler> Ash_R: Yes. Hopefully, we will have a charter to vote on for that meeting
716
717 [00:46] <Ash_R> we seem to have less that 12 voters present
718
719 [00:46] <Ash_R> *than
720
721 [00:46] <nhandler> New members now?
722
723 [00:46] <bodhi_zazen> I am ok with discussing the charter later
724
725 [00:47] <cprofitt> we will likely have to have some rules -- written in the charter about how much of the team will be required to accept it...
726
727 [00:47] <bodhi_zazen> [TOPIC]New members
728
729 [00:47] <MootBot> New Topic: New members
730
731 [00:47] <cprofitt> and what will be required to change it... etc
732
733 [00:47] <bodhi_zazen> cprofitt: I think as general as possible :)
734
735 [00:48] <cprofitt> bodhi_zazen, not sure those things can be general...
736
737 [00:48] <bodhi_zazen> pleia2: I think is up for membership
738
739 [00:48] * pleia2 waves
740
741 [00:48] <cprofitt> we can use well tested ones
742
743 [00:48] <bodhi_zazen> I know cprofitt
744
745 [00:48] <nhandler> pleia2: Care to introduce yourself?
746
747 [00:48] <cprofitt> yes... I present pleia2 for membership
748
749 [00:48] <cprofitt> her wiki page is here - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/lyz
750
751 [00:49] <cprofitt> she has worked with the Education FG is getting the Ubuntu Community Learning Project off the ground
752
753 [00:49] <pleia2> Sure, I'm Elizabeth Krumbach, have been working with Ubuntu for a few years, became a member about 2 years ago, started working with cprofitt and all on the education FG related to Classroom which led into the new Learning project
754
755 [00:49] <cprofitt> and has been very helpful with several other teams
756
757 [00:50] <pleia2> and I hang out in the #ubuntu-beginners team and help out as needed, would like to start doing soem Classroom classes under the BT label
758
759 [00:50] <nhandler> Any questions for pleia2 ? Or can we vote?
760
761 [00:50] <bodhi_zazen> I support pleia2 in membership :)
762
763 [00:50] <pleia2> thanks :)
764
765 [00:50] <bodhi_zazen> [VOTE] pleia2 for membersihp
766
767 [00:50] <MootBot> Please vote on: pleia2 for membersihp.
768
769 [00:50] <MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to MootBot
770
771 [00:50] <MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
772
773 [00:50] <sdennie> +1
774
775 [00:50] <bodhi_zazen> +1
776
777 [00:50] <MootBot> +1 received from sdennie. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
778
779 [00:50] <Ash_R> +1
780
781 [00:50] <nhandler> +1
782
783 [00:50] <MootBot> +1 received from bodhi_zazen. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
784
785 [00:50] <Saj0577> +1
786
787 [00:50] <MootBot> +1 received from Ash_R. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
788
789 [00:50] <w4ett> pleia2 has been indispensable in assisting in the reformation of the tennessee loco team
790
791 [00:50] <MootBot> +1 received from nhandler. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
792
793 [00:50] <swoody> +1
794
795 [00:50] <jgoguen> +1
796
797 [00:50] <w4ett> +1
798
799 [00:50] <MootBot> +1 received from Saj0577. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 5
800
801 [00:50] <MootBot> +1 received from swoody. 6 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 6
802
803 [00:50] <MootBot> +1 received from jgoguen. 7 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 7
804
805 [00:50] <MootBot> +1 received from w4ett. 8 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 8
806
807 [00:51] <drs305> +1
808
809 [00:51] <MootBot> +1 received from drs305. 9 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 9
810
811 [00:51] <cprofitt> +1
812
813 [00:51] <MootBot> +1 received from cprofitt. 10 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 10
814
815 [00:51] <bodhi_zazen> Any additional votes ?
816
817 [00:51] <bodhi_zazen> [ENDVOTE]
818
819 [00:51] <MootBot> Final result is 10 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 10
820
821 [00:51] <pleia2> thanks everyone :)
822
823 [00:52] <bodhi_zazen> w00t :)
824
825 [00:52] <Ash_R> congratulations pleia2
826
827 [00:52] <nhandler> Congrats pleia2 ! What is your LP name?
828
829 [00:52] <pleia2> nhandler: lyz
830
831 [00:52] <Ash_R> you earned it
832
833 [00:52] <Joeb454> fwiw, if I had been paying attention I would've +1'd pleia2 :)
834
835 [00:52] <bodhi_zazen> we have 8 minutes to discuss FG :)
836
837 [00:52] <nhandler> pleia2: You have been added to the BT LP team
838
839 [00:52] <pleia2> nhandler: thanks \o/
840
841 [00:52] <Ash_R> shall i go as i have minor thing to announce?
842
843 [00:53] <nhandler> I have to leave. I will read the logs later
844
845 [00:53] <Joeb454> later nhandler
846
847 [00:53] <bodhi_zazen> go Ash_R
848
849 [00:53] <Saj0577> later nhandler
850
851 [00:53] <bodhi_zazen> thanks nhandler
852
853 [00:54] <Joeb454> I have something after as well :)
854
855 [00:54] <Ash_R> The young new user focus group had its first meeting. Here is the wiki page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/FocusGroups/YNU/Meetings/06-28-2009
856
857 [00:54] <bodhi_zazen> SWEET
858
859 [00:54] <Ash_R> thats about it really ;)
860
861 [00:54] <Joeb454> nice
862
863 [00:54] <bodhi_zazen> Thank , I think the YUN FG will be very helpful
864
865 [00:54] <bodhi_zazen> Joeb454: go :)
866
867 [00:54] <sdennie> Excellent Ash_R
868
869 [00:55] <Joeb454> basically, after a meeting amongst the council, we decided to change some settings in the council channel
870
871 [00:55] <Ash_R> though we had to put together a quick channel as it was late notice (10ish minutes) laugh out lud
872
873 [00:55] <Ash_R> loud
874
875 [00:55] <Joeb454> some of you may already be aware, but the channel is now +mz
876
877 [00:55] <Saj0577> +mz meaning?
878
879 [00:55] <Joeb454> basically this means that nobody will be able to speak without voice, however channel operators (i.e. the council) will be able to hear you
880
881 [00:55] <sdennie> Militarized Zone
882
883 [00:56] <bodhi_zazen> +mz == stfu :)
884
885 [00:56] <Joeb454> so if you have a query to raise with the council, they can voice you and you will be heard by all
886
887 [00:56] <bodhi_zazen> j/k
888
889 [00:56] <Joeb454> I'm sure if it turns out to not work as we expect, we can change it back :)
890
891 [00:56] <Joeb454> that's all I think :)
892
893 [00:56] <sdennie> I have something to add to that
894
895 [00:56] <cprofitt> The Educations FG team is still involved in the Ubuntu Community Learning Project. With the guidance that bodhi_zazen is giving it progress is being made in adopting a structure. Legal questions are still being discussed as to the license to use for courses.
896
897 [00:57] <bodhi_zazen> cprofitt: is too kind
898
899 [00:57] <bodhi_zazen> cprofitt: Vantrax pleia2 and doctormo deserve more credit then I do
900
901 [00:57] <bodhi_zazen> really
902
903 [00:57] <Joeb454> cprofitt: hopefully they'll get sorted soon
904
905 [00:57] <Joeb454> and sdennie quick, add to what I said before we forget! :)
906
907 [00:57] <cprofitt> it is not an easy topic...
908
909 [00:57] <sdennie> We did this because the council channel was recently a very unfriendly place to be for a few incidents. There was a lot of name calling and otherwise unfriendliness so, we decided to make it more "sanitary".
910
911 [00:58] <cprofitt> and can be very contentious, but I feel the people involved while strong of opinion are stronger of desire to see the project successful
912
913 [00:58] <bodhi_zazen> juat FYI I am kind of -1 on the whole +mz thing, although I am vulnerable to peer pressure
914
915 [00:58] <bodhi_zazen> I like the channel to be open
916
917 [00:59] <bodhi_zazen> so if there are problems or concerns PLEASE bring them forward
918
919 [00:59] * bodhi_zazen hides
920
921 [00:59] <bodhi_zazen> other issues ?
922
923 [00:59] <Joeb454> bodhi_zazen: I agree there, but we'll see how it pans out :) Like I said, I'm happy to change it if needs be
924
925 [00:59] <sdennie> bodhi_zazen: I've turned -1 on the issue because for some reason pidgin doesn't do it right... ;)
926
927 [00:59] <bodhi_zazen> LOL sdennie
928
929 [00:59] <swoody> I somewhat agree bodhi_zazen I like open channels, but when something 'official' starts in the channel, I think it should go to +mz by default
930
931 [01:00] <bodhi_zazen> just helping nhandler feel better , so he is not the only one swamped with -1
932
933 [01:00] <bodhi_zazen> lol
934
935 [01:00] <sdennie> Haha
936
937 [01:00] <sdennie> Well, if we find it doesn't work, it's easy enough to reverse the change
938
939 [01:01] <sdennie> Or if people don't like it
940
941 [01:01] <bodhi_zazen> +1
942
943 [01:01] <bodhi_zazen> :)
944
945 [01:01] <bodhi_zazen> #endmeeting
946
947 [01:01] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 19:01.
BeginnersTeam/Meetings/20090630 (last edited 2009-07-01 12:07:38 by 99-21-107-94)