== Edcuation Focus Group Meeting ==

=== Agenda ===

 * Name of Project
 * Use of the Ubuntu name
 * Training/Education focus
 * Identifying Stakeholders
 * Integrating with the community
 * Developing Online Courseware
 * Project Milestones
 * Session feedback mechanism

=== Meeting Logs ===
{{{
* cprofitt FIVE minutes until the EDU meeting starts
22:00	cprofitt	#startmeeting
22:00	MootBot	Meeting started at 16:00. The chair is cprofitt.
22:00	MootBot	Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
22:00	cprofitt	[TOPIC] Education Initiative
22:00	MootBot	New Topic:  Education Initiative
22:01	cprofitt	Welcome everyone
22:01	cprofitt	This is the Ubuntu Forums Beginners Team Education Focus Group
* pleia2 waves
22:02	cprofitt	Tonight we will be discussing our project of adopting Moodle and integrating it in with existing resources for Ubuntu Education
22:02	Vantrax	Thanks for coming pleia2
22:02	cprofitt	We are using MootBot and the instructions can be found here
22:02	cprofitt	https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ScribesTeam/MootBot
22:03	cprofitt	I would like to thank everyone who has shown up for our meeting.
22:03	cprofitt	Now I would like to introduce the man leading the charge - Vantrax
22:03	cprofitt	take it away Vantrax
22:03	Vantrax	Sheesh....
22:03	Vantrax	that might be an overstatement:P
22:04	Vantrax	All right, for anyone that hasnt already seen it, the agenda can be found here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/FocusGroups/Education/Meetings
22:04	cprofitt	[LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/FocusGroups/Education/Meetings
22:04	MootBot	LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/FocusGroups/Education/Meetings
22:04	cprofitt	for the agenda
22:05	Vantrax	Im going to assume that no one here has an idea of what were doing and give a quick recap
22:05	cprofitt	[TOPIC] Name of Project
22:05	MootBot	New Topic:  Name of Project
22:05	cprofitt	[TOPIC] Overview
22:05	MootBot	New Topic:  Overview
22:05	Vantrax	Our intention is to create an interactive learning environment to support new users becoming more engaged in the Ubuntu community. Our goal is to take new motivated users and turn them into contributing members of the community.
22:06	Vantrax	We plan to do this by using moodle to coordinate all the various methods currently being used to teach with all the different teams currently engaged in various sorts of training
22:06	Vantrax	The intention of this program is to avoid competition with the existing official training program. This training will cover some similar process but will not have any accreditation or certification associated with it, and may act as a feeder into the official components. The information contained is intended to suplement the work already being done by several groups in IRC training to make their programs easier to find, and easier to take.
22:07	Vantrax	[TOPIC] Name of Project
22:07	cprofitt	[TOPIC] Name of Project
22:07	MootBot	New Topic:  Name of Project
22:08	Vantrax	First bit off the line, we have to name what the project is going to be. The suggestions from community and canonical staff have been to include community and training or education. We are also currently petitioning to use the Ubuntu name and expect that it is likely to be granted
22:09	Vantrax	Aside from Ubuntu Community Training, and Ubuntu Community Education are there any other suggestions that people would like considered
22:09	cprofitt	[IDEA]Ubuntu Community Training
22:09	MootBot	IDEA received: Ubuntu Community Training
22:09	JoshuaRL	o/
22:09	Vantrax	go JoshuaRL
22:09	cprofitt	[IDEA]Ubuntu Community Education
22:09	MootBot	IDEA received: Ubuntu Community Education
22:09	JoshuaRL	Ubuntu Community Learning
22:10	cprofitt	[IDEA]Ubuntu Community Learning (JoshuaRL)
22:10	MootBot	IDEA received: Ubuntu Community Learning (JoshuaRL)
22:10	Vantrax	Other suggestions?
22:11	pleia2	I worry about "Community Training" because it's so similar to the official stuff, and in every instance the official canonical training folks will have the "training" name already
22:12	JoshuaRL	pleia2: +1
22:12	Vantrax	Jono actually preferred that one because it was similar, but clearly community based and not official.
22:12	cprofitt	I prefer education myself... but learning is good.
22:12	tim_sharitt	IMO, something with education or learning is more inviting to casual users and new users
22:12	forestpixie	+1
22:12	cprofitt	I emailed Jono about the difference between Education and Training, but have not received a response yet
22:13	tim_sharitt	training sounds too formal
22:13	pleia2	Vantrax: well, thus far the canonical training folks have launchpad and mailing lists called "ubuntu training" or somesuch
22:13	cprofitt	yes, training sounds like something will be done to you...
22:13	cprofitt	and we plan on some self-paced learning
22:13	Vantrax	Personally I am partital to Education
22:13	pleia2	I like Education
22:14	cprofitt	does anyone want the differences as I laid them out?
22:14	tim_sharitt	+1 for education
22:14	pleia2	cprofitt: sure :)
22:14	JoshuaRL	cprofitt: go ahead
22:14	cprofitt	ok...
22:15	cprofitt	the education, instruction, or discipline of a person or thing that is being trained
22:15	cprofitt	the act or process of imparting or acquiring general knowledge, developing the powers of reasoning and judgment, and generally of preparing oneself or others intellectually for mature life
22:15	cprofitt	the first is training
22:15	cprofitt	the second is education
22:16	JoshuaRL	cprofitt: got learning available?
22:16	cprofitt	not handy
22:16	cprofitt	but can look it up
22:16	cprofitt	the act or process of acquiring knowledge or skill.
22:17	JoshuaRL	knowledge acquired by systematic study in any field of scholarly application.
22:17	JoshuaRL	oops, missed yours  :)
22:17	cprofitt	I like Education because it can be self-paced or instructor lead
22:17	Vantrax	Im still partial to Education looking at the definitions, everyone happy with that, or would you like to vote?
22:18	forestpixie	we need to vote I think
22:18	cprofitt	[VOTE] Name - Ubuntu Community Education
22:18	MootBot	Please vote on:  Name - Ubuntu Community Education.
22:18	MootBot	Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
22:18	MootBot	E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
22:18	cprofitt	+1
22:18	MootBot	+1 received from cprofitt. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
22:18	Vantrax	+1
22:18	MootBot	+1 received from Vantrax. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
22:18	tim_sharitt	+1
22:18	MootBot	+1 received from tim_sharitt. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
22:18	pleia2	+1
22:18	MootBot	+1 received from pleia2. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
22:18	forestpixie	1
22:18	JoshuaRL	+1
22:18	MootBot	+1 received from JoshuaRL. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 5
22:18	forestpixie	+1
22:18	MootBot	+1 received from forestpixie. 6 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 6
22:19	Vantrax	Any other votes?
22:19	cprofitt	[ENDVOTE]
22:19	MootBot	Final result is 6 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 6
22:19	cprofitt	[VOTE]Ubuntu Community Learning
22:19	MootBot	Please vote on: Ubuntu Community Learning.
22:19	MootBot	Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
22:19	MootBot	E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
22:19	cprofitt	0
22:19	cprofitt	+0
22:19	MootBot	Abstention received from cprofitt. 0 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 0
22:19	Vantrax	0
22:19	Vantrax	+0
22:19	JoshuaRL	-1
22:19	MootBot	-1 received from JoshuaRL. 0 for, 1 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now -1
22:19	MootBot	Abstention received from Vantrax. 0 for, 1 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now -1
22:19	forestpixie	+0
22:19	MootBot	Abstention received from forestpixie. 0 for, 1 against. 3 have abstained. Count is now -1
22:20	tim_sharitt	+0
22:20	MootBot	Abstention received from tim_sharitt. 0 for, 1 against. 4 have abstained. Count is now -1
22:20	cprofitt	[ENDVOTE]
22:20	MootBot	Final result is 0 for, 1 against. 4 abstained. Total: -1
22:20	cprofitt	[VOTE]Ubuntu Community Training
22:20	MootBot	Please vote on: Ubuntu Community Training.
22:20	MootBot	Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
22:20	MootBot	E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
22:20	cprofitt	-1
22:20	MootBot	-1 received from cprofitt. 0 for, 1 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -1
22:20	tim_sharitt	-1
22:20	MootBot	-1 received from tim_sharitt. 0 for, 2 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -2
22:20	forestpixie	-1
22:20	MootBot	-1 received from forestpixie. 0 for, 3 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -3
22:20	Vantrax	+0
22:20	MootBot	Abstention received from Vantrax. 0 for, 3 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now -3
22:20	JoshuaRL	-1
22:20	MootBot	-1 received from JoshuaRL. 0 for, 4 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now -4
22:21	cprofitt	[ENDVOTE]
22:21	MootBot	Final result is 0 for, 4 against. 1 abstained. Total: -4
* nhandler arrives
22:21	cprofitt	[AGREED]Ubuntu Community Education
22:21	MootBot	AGREED received: Ubuntu Community Education
22:21	cprofitt	We will need to review that with Canonical
22:22	cprofitt	[TOPIC]Use of the Ubuntu name
22:22	MootBot	New Topic: Use of the Ubuntu name
22:23	Vantrax	As before, any use of the Ubuntu name has to be approved by the branding/copyright group. A formal request has been made and is expected to be approved based on support from the Official Ubuntu training team leaders, community manager, and sadbfl
22:23	Vantrax	Just a little status update on that side of things
22:24	cprofitt	[TOPIC]Training/Education focus
22:24	MootBot	New Topic: Training/Education focus
22:24	Vantrax	cprofitt: mind if we do Integrating with the community first?
22:24	cprofitt	[TOPIC]Integrating with the community
22:24	MootBot	New Topic: Integrating with the community
22:25	Vantrax	This has been an area of consern in planning this project, many groups in the community are already doing training.
22:26	Vantrax	The plan is that a new launchpad team and mailing list will be created including the representatives for the training program (currently dubbed Ubuntu Community Education) to make it a new entity that is a collaberation of teams, not the property of existing teams (ie Its not a Ubuntu Forums Beginners Team or a Classroom project).
22:26	Vantrax	Does anyone have any comments or suggestions in regard to this side of things
22:26	nhandler	I would like to see a few different teams created
22:26	pleia2	what kinds of things would be discussed there that wouldn't be on existing lists?
=== bazhang_ is now known as bazhang
22:27	nhandler	For instance, a team for people interested in forum education, motu education, wiki education, etc. You would then have a parent team which has these smaller teams as members
22:27	pleia2	I'd rather not see a bunch of half-dead lists be created for specific things when discussions on all of them could be useful for everyone involved
22:27	Vantrax	pleia2: the idea is more that there are not several lists
22:27	cprofitt	I just want to state that the focus is to augment existing training... not replace it. We want to increase the use of IRC #classroom and have more people become involved with MOTU, Documentation, etc...
22:27	Vantrax	nhandler: most of these teams have lists already that serve this function isnt it?
22:28	JoshuaRL	nhandler: that could easily be handled within each respective team, if they decide they need it
22:28	nhandler	Vantrax: There aren't specific teams/lists for the education element of these teams
22:28	Vantrax	The idea is to provide a better method for training to tie the community training together
22:28	pleia2	yeah, currently motu, bugs, etc discuss thing within their own teams, since everyone in their team can contribute
22:28	cprofitt	Vantrax, I would think that the other teams would be fine on their own internal lists still... but the new group would allow for a common list to be shared for the areas that cross
22:28	nhandler	For instance, we have a MOTU School, but no MOTU School list/team
22:28	Vantrax	nhandler: i see what you meen now
22:28	cprofitt	I would think those teams have internal issues that do not need to be discussed in the context of education
22:29	cprofitt	so the new group would provide a shared 'education' list
22:29	Vantrax	nhandler: I would tend to assume it would be up to each contributing area to decide if they need a group/mailing list for this
22:29	cprofitt	and only focus on the education piece for all included teams
22:29	pleia2	I don't think we want to insist upon groups having a "motu school team/list" the reason they discuss this on their main lists is because they want to, and it attracts attention from everyone in their teams instead of segregating it
22:29	JoshuaRL	Vantrax: +1.  this should just be a parent group
22:29	Vantrax	such as the Beginners Team has done with its Education Focus Group
22:29	cprofitt	pleia2, I agree...
22:30	cprofitt	I think vantrax's idea was to create one combined EDU list
22:30	nhandler	pleia2: I am not saying we need separate lists, I just think creating sub-teams of this new education team would be a good idea
22:30	JoshuaRL	pleia2: +1
22:30	Vantrax	The idea of the list is that everyone has a central point for edu related info
22:30	cprofitt	so that teams could discuss education together in a combined place
22:30	pleia2	nhandler: I fail to use the usefulness
22:30	Vantrax	or to seek help on setting up a course on the moodle installation
22:30	nhandler	pleia2: Organization. You could see who is interested in certain types of lessons. You could then have different people in charge of coordinating those lessons
22:31	cprofitt	0/
22:31	pleia2	nhandler: I think it adds complexity and requirements upon teams doing lessons
22:31	pleia2	I think we want to make it easy for them :)
22:31	cprofitt	pleia2, would you have education issues cross posted on the regular team lists?
22:32	pleia2	cprofitt: yeah, then more people see it and perhaps someone who didn't know about it could toss in their info, wider audiences are generally good
22:32	pleia2	putting education stuff in its own corner tends to cause things to die off
22:32	cprofitt	would it be good to have one 'uber' list plus cross posting? or just all cross posting?
22:33	cprofitt	I see two sides... keeping people involved and the 'logs' of the list... one 'education' list would make it easy to find education posts...
22:33	pleia2	uber list plus cross posting
22:33	cprofitt	cool... I think I like that idea...
22:33	nhandler	Having an uber list would also make it easy for people to contact the people in charge of the lessons
22:33	JoshuaRL	pleia2: +1
22:33	cprofitt	Vantrax?
22:33	pleia2	like currently with classroom a couple of us are on main ubuntu lists, read planet and news, and when we see a lesson we post about it to -classroom, we encourage teams doing classes to publicise them with classroom, but they're cross posted elsewhere too
22:34	pleia2	nhandler: agreed
22:34	cprofitt	so do we need a new team or just a mailing list to accomplish that?
22:34	Vantrax	Im just thinking how easy is this going to be for a new user looking for information
22:35	forestpixie	probably easier than looking all over the place
22:35	nhandler	cprofitt: If you are making the list through Launchpad, you need a team
22:35	pleia2	Vantrax: me too, I fear that having too many subteams would be confusing (and if one is dead and the rest are busy? they get a false impression of the project if they join that dead one...)
22:35	cprofitt	Vantrax, I think the mix of Uber list and cross posting should solve the issue of finding things... but also pollinate the existing groups
22:35	Vantrax	I think we should have an LP team related to the organisational side of this, for people contributing materials or helping coordinate
22:35	cprofitt	k...
22:35	forestpixie	+1
22:36	forestpixie	although we could use the one we already have couldn't we
22:36	Vantrax	I think we should also have a mailing list for information on training, and sublist for each area that are crossposted
22:36	Vantrax	forestpixie: the idea is for another group not related to an existing group
22:36	pleia2	it's the sublist I have trouble with
22:36	nhandler	Vantrax: That is what my idea about the subteams was partially about
22:37	nhandler	However, I don't think the sublists are needed
22:37	Vantrax	ok, subteams but not sublists?
22:37	nhandler	Yes
22:37	pleia2	I don't think subteamsare needed either
22:37	nhandler	That would keep things organized
22:37	Rocket2DMn	o/
22:37	nhandler	pleia2: Why? If I am only interested in doing a certain type of session, you don't think that matters
22:37	Vantrax	pleia2: I agree, but I can see the use on the organisational side
22:37	Vantrax	go Rocket2DMn
22:37	JoshuaRL	o/ 2
22:37	cprofitt	Rocket2DMn,
22:37	pleia2	nhandler: subteams are essentially already handled by the projects themselves, asking them to join these seems excessive
22:38	Rocket2DMn	I've been following some of this discussion, it's become apparent that sublists definitely dont work, we saw this on the BT
22:38	Rocket2DMn	re: Subteams, who would actually be ON the subteams?
22:38	cprofitt	+1 Rocket2DMn
22:38	Vantrax	Rocket2DMn: I think were past sublists
22:38	tim_sharitt	I don't think we need subteams/sublists right now unless we see that are actually needed in the future
22:38	pleia2	tim_sharitt: +1
22:38	cprofitt	Lets vote on this...
22:38	forestpixie	+1 tim_sharitt
22:38	Rocket2DMn	a "subteam" is more of a reference to a completely other ubuntu team
22:38	JoshuaRL	i think that we should use one list, and one team.  if the traffic and the work gets exessive, then we can make them
22:38	Vantrax	Id leave it as an option if we expand too rapidly, but for the moment the scale is a little small
22:38	cprofitt	[VOTE]One LP team plus a mailing list w/ cross posting on all member groups email lists
22:38	MootBot	Please vote on: One LP team plus a mailing list w/ cross posting on all member groups email lists.
22:38	MootBot	Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
22:38	MootBot	E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
22:39	cprofitt	+1
22:39	MootBot	+1 received from cprofitt. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
22:39	forestpixie	+1
22:39	MootBot	+1 received from forestpixie. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
22:39	tim_sharitt	+1
22:39	pleia2	+1
22:39	MootBot	+1 received from tim_sharitt. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
22:39	MootBot	+1 received from pleia2. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
22:39	Vantrax	+1
22:39	MootBot	+1 received from Vantrax. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 5
22:39	JoshuaRL	+1
22:39	MootBot	+1 received from JoshuaRL. 6 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 6
22:40	cprofitt	any more votes - Rocket2DMn
22:40	Rocket2DMn	i wont vote on your stuff guys, just thought i'd provide some input.  thank you
22:40	cprofitt	[ENDVOTE]
22:40	MootBot	Final result is 6 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 6
22:40	cprofitt	[AGREED]One LP team plus a mailing list w/ cross posting on all member groups email lists
22:40	MootBot	AGREED received: One LP team plus a mailing list w/ cross posting on all member groups email lists
22:40	jpds	So, you lot don't want a list at lists.ubuntu.com?
=== nhandler is now known as Guest28052
22:40	Vantrax	Its likely that thats where the list will be made
22:40	pleia2	it would be nice to have ubuntu-education :)
=== Guest28052 is now known as nhandler_
22:41	cprofitt	+1 pleia2
22:41	JoshuaRL	+1
22:41	forestpixie	+1
22:41	cprofitt	next topic Vantrax ?
22:41	nhandler_	jpds: Doesn't the team need to be an official Ubuntu team to use lists.ubuntu.com
22:41	pleia2	and the ubuntu-classroom would simply be an aggregation of events in the #ubuntu-classroom channel
22:41	pleia2	list
=== nhandler_ is now known as nhandler
22:42	jpds	pleia2: Someone beat you to it: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-education
22:42	cprofitt	{TOPIC]Training/Education focus
22:42	MootBot	New Topic: Training/Education focus
22:42	nhandler	jpds: Those darn edubuntu people ;)
22:42	pleia2	oh, edubuntu?
22:42	cprofitt	we can be ubuntu-community-education
22:42	jpds	nhandler: I'd have to check policy for non-LoCo mailing lists first.
22:42	Vantrax	we will work something out:P
22:43	nhandler	jpds: I'll talk with the brainstorm people. I know they recently moved from launchpad to lists.ubuntu.com
22:43	Vantrax	To start with its been suggest that we start with three basic streems of courses.
22:43	Vantrax	One aimed at new users to learn the basics of how Ubuntu works and how to work with your system.
22:44	Vantrax	a more sysadmin based stream to learn how to administrate Ubuntu system for business and educational environments.
22:44	Vantrax	lastly a contributor stream that focuses on learning how to contribute to the development of Ubuntu
22:45	Vantrax	New User Sample Course Ideas:
22:45	Vantrax	Learn about the terminal, how installing applications and repositories work, filling in a bug reports, modifying your desktop and theming, Root and Sudo, Partitioning and fstab, how to use IRC, how to use the Ubuntu Wiki, how to use Launchpad (Bugs and Answers), Linux file permissions, and the linux file system hiarchy.
22:45	cprofitt	I would like to suggest another stream - an Trainer stream -- a course to help people who want to be trainers
22:45	Vantrax	SysAdmin Sample Course Ideas:
22:45	Vantrax	Basic Security Practices, Apparmor and Iptables, Networked logins using pam modules, locking down the gnome desktop, mantaining large scale SOE deployments (cssh and rc.local), automating remote backups, and Ubuntu SOE development.
22:45	cprofitt	I think it is critical that we be able to 'grow' people as trainers
22:45	forestpixie	+1
22:46	Vantrax	Contributor Sample Course Ideas:
22:46	Vantrax	Python Programming, how to use bzr, how to build a package, Introduction to Kernel Compiling, Introduction to Compiling, How to Triage Bugs, introduction to Launchpad Translations,
22:46	JoshuaRL	cprofitt: that would be covered in the contributor stream right?
22:46	cprofitt	perhaps, but not by what Vantrax just posted...
22:46	Vantrax	Now there are also options for a security stream looked at as well focusing more on  advanced security practices, encryption, intrustion detection, and penetration testing (nubuntu style). This however is out of scope initially due to its complex nature.
22:46	nhandler	Vantrax: Have you talked with james_w yet? He is currently the Dean of the MOTU School
22:47	Vantrax	not yet, hence why I was askin you if anyone else from MOTU should be here:P
22:47	cprofitt	Vantrax, pleia2 what are your thoughts on developing the instructors?
* nhandler doesn't remember being asked that
22:47	Vantrax	As said, these are just samples for discussion to get an idea
22:47	pleia2	cprofitt: no comments, good idea
22:47	nhandler	cprofitt: I think those types of sessions would be great to give, especially before an Open Week or Dev Week
22:47	Vantrax	cprofitt: good idea
22:48	cprofitt	I just can not see us growing the offerings unless we ensure people are ready to be instructors
22:48	cprofitt	so it seems to be central to the success of the project
22:48	Vantrax	I would defineately agree
22:49	Vantrax	gah, horrible spelling
22:49	JoshuaRL	cprofitt: but maybe it could be in the contributor stream.  stickeyed, so to speak, but it makes sense for it to be there.
22:49	cprofitt	I do not think this needs a vote... we need to flesh that out and work with the stakeholders
22:49	Vantrax	JoshuaRL: I would think that would be the right spot to put it
22:49	cprofitt	which I believe brings us to our next topic
22:49	Vantrax	thats the next bit:P
22:49	cprofitt	[TOPIC]Identifying Stakeholders
22:49	MootBot	New Topic: Identifying Stakeholders
22:50	Vantrax	So now that we have an idea who we are looking at, who are our stakeholders for this project?
22:50	nhandler	I would definitely try and get james_w involved
22:51	Vantrax	I would guess were looking at MOTU Team, Bug Squad, Beginners Team, Classroom Team, Canonical, Desktop Training, New Users Network
22:51	JoshuaRL	Rocket2DMn: documentation team should be included, right?
22:51	Vantrax	I dont think NUN is active..
22:51	pleia2	NUN is dead
22:51	nhandler	Vantrax: It isn't last I checked
22:52	cprofitt	MOTU Team, Bug Squad, Beginners Team, Classroom Team, Canonical, Desktop Training, Documentation -- those are the right groups?
22:53	JoshuaRL	sounds good cprofitt
22:53	Vantrax	also if anyone can supply contact leads for the education programs that would be good:P
22:53	Vantrax	I have about half of them
22:53	nhandler	Who do you need Vantrax ?
22:53	cprofitt	[VOTE]Initial Stakeholders = MOTU Team, Bug Squad, Beginners Team, Classroom Team, Canonical, Desktop Training, Documentation
22:53	MootBot	Please vote on: Initial Stakeholders = MOTU Team, Bug Squad, Beginners Team, Classroom Team, Canonical, Desktop Training, Documentation.
22:53	MootBot	Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
22:53	MootBot	E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
22:53	Vantrax	i have motu now, but email would be nice
22:53	cprofitt	+1
22:53	MootBot	+1 received from cprofitt. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
22:53	JoshuaRL	+1
22:53	MootBot	+1 received from JoshuaRL. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
22:53	pleia2	+1
22:53	MootBot	+1 received from pleia2. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
22:53	Vantrax	+1
22:53	MootBot	+1 received from Vantrax. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
22:53	nhandler	+1
22:53	MootBot	+1 received from nhandler. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 5
22:53	forestpixie	+1
22:53	MootBot	+1 received from forestpixie. 6 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 6
22:53	tim_sharitt	+1
22:53	MootBot	+1 received from tim_sharitt. 7 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 7
22:54	cprofitt	[ENDVOTE]
22:54	MootBot	Final result is 7 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 7
22:54	cprofitt	[AGREED]MOTU Team, Bug Squad, Beginners Team, Classroom Team, Canonical, Desktop Training, Documentation
22:54	MootBot	AGREED received: MOTU Team, Bug Squad, Beginners Team, Classroom Team, Canonical, Desktop Training, Documentation
22:54	cprofitt	[ACTION]MOTU Team, Bug Squad, Beginners Team, Classroom Team, Canonical, Desktop Training, Documentation will be contacted by Vantrax or cprofitt
22:54	MootBot	ACTION received: MOTU Team, Bug Squad, Beginners Team, Classroom Team, Canonical, Desktop Training, Documentation will be contacted by Vantrax or cprofitt
22:54	JoshuaRL	Vantrax: matthew east (mdke) mdke@ubuntu.com for Doc team
22:54	JoshuaRL	or cprofitt  :)
22:55	nhandler	james_w for MOTU, probably bdmurray for Bug Squad
22:55	Vantrax	Rocket2DMn: who runs the bugsquad training?
22:56	nhandler	Vantrax: They don't really have an active training program afaik. But bdmurray is in charge of the team
22:56	Vantrax	okies, they have alot of material that ive seen
22:57	pleia2	yeah, they do regular bug days that include training
22:57	pleia2	but it's not that specific
22:57	cprofitt	[TOPIC]Developing Online Courseware
22:57	MootBot	New Topic: Developing Online Courseware
22:57	nhandler	pleia2: The bug days aren't really training sessions
22:57	Vantrax	we should make it a little more, even if it is just on the moodle and not in IRC
22:57	cprofitt	Vantrax tells me that this topic is my ball...
22:57	pleia2	nhandler: right, but if people ask for help on how to get started they get help
22:57	pleia2	which is why I say it's not that specific :)
22:58	Vantrax	need to make it a little easier, and a little more specific:P
22:58	cprofitt	When it comes to Moodle there are two types of on-line courses that I am familiar with
22:58	cprofitt	instructor lead and self-paced
22:58	pleia2	Vantrax: I dunno, I think we need to ask them how things are going and offer help if they want it ;)
22:58	Vantrax	yep, thats all im planning on with anyone
22:59	cprofitt	Instructor lead is a course that will make use of wiki material, activities in moodle, forum posts and IRC sessions
22:59	cprofitt	self-paced would involve moodle activites and wiki information that people would walk through themselve
23:00	Vantrax	Over time I would guess those resources would probably all end up in moodle (aside from forum posts and active IRC sessions)
23:00	cprofitt	on their own
23:00	cprofitt	Vantrax, I see no reason to duplicate the material that is naturally going to be in the wiki
23:00	cprofitt	inside of Moodle
23:00	cprofitt	create activities, etc for it sure...
23:00	JoshuaRL	cprofitt: self paced would probably be a re-tooling of the instructor led info, right?
23:00	pleia2	Vantrax: perhaps, but I think we should always be mindful of accessibility, it would be ashame to insist upon everything being in moodle and then lose that resource at some point
23:00	cprofitt	but the base information should likely stay in the wiki
23:01	pleia2	that happened to Classroom, Classroom summaries were put on a blog, which disappeared :(
23:01	Vantrax	I tend to think that training and information are presented very differently
23:01	cprofitt	Vantrax, yes, but in a great many courses they use text books written by others
23:01	cprofitt	and the instructor guides people through the material...
23:01	Vantrax	No argument there:P
23:02	cprofitt	gives them activities to ensure they learn the knowledge and can apply it
23:02	Vantrax	More thinking for the self paced courses where it is not instructor led
23:02	cprofitt	for me the wiki is the text book
23:02	cprofitt	with self-paced the material can link to the wiki
23:02	cprofitt	and then give them exercises
23:02	cprofitt	internal to Moodle
23:02	cprofitt	I think the idea will have to be massaged as we move forward with it...
23:03	Vantrax	as with everything:P
23:03	cprofitt	but as we are not building the entire core of knowledge from the ground up we have to respect the normal location of this knowledge
23:03	Vantrax	cprofitt: +1
23:03	cprofitt	curious on pleia2 and nhandler and Rocket2DMn - thoughts
23:04	cprofitt	JoshuaRL, ?
23:04	pleia2	I'm good
23:04	nhandler	cprofitt: Who is going to be in charge of keeping the online stuff up-to-date?
23:04	forestpixie	that sounds right to me cprofitt
23:05	JoshuaRL	i like the idea of using existing info for the instructor led courses
23:05	cprofitt	nhandler, I would assume that the wiki would fall to any of the people who would normally do that...
23:05	tim_sharitt	sounds good cprofitt :)
23:05	Vantrax	nhandler: the stuff in moodle or wiki or?
23:05	JoshuaRL	the less duplication, the better.
23:05	cprofitt	and that instructors teaching that course would bear soem of that burden too
23:05	cprofitt	the Moodle course would be maintained just by the instructors
23:05	cprofitt	does that sound good nhandler ?
23:06	nhandler	It sounds good, we'll see if it works
23:06	cprofitt	k
23:06	cprofitt	[TOPIC]Project Milestones
23:06	MootBot	New Topic: Project Milestones
23:06	cprofitt	back to you Vantrax
23:06	Vantrax	This is pretty simple and quick
23:07	Vantrax	Just a little breakdown of how things should go forward from here (pick it apart)
23:07	Vantrax	The information discussed here will form a project plan with the scope and aim
23:08	Vantrax	that will be posted to planet, and mailed to everyone
23:08	Vantrax	Then we get the initial deployment of moodle started and get the theme done
23:08	Vantrax	We need to create content guidelines (presentation standards and layout)
23:08	Vantrax	then moderator groups based on contributing areas
23:09	Vantrax	we need to get sample courses delivered in moodle using the standards, preferably getting the entire new user stream ready as a priority
23:09	Vantrax	Announcement to community and a call for more topics that people want covered
23:10	cprofitt	yes, and that sample can be a course on how to use Moodle as an instructor
23:10	Vantrax	more course development based on feedback with at least one streem complete
23:10	JoshuaRL	cprofitt: nice idea
23:10	Vantrax	the of course an official launch
23:10	Vantrax	^then
23:10	JoshuaRL	Vantrax: yeah, the new user stream should definitely be a high priority
23:11	cprofitt	Moodle also allows for you to use an existing course as a template... so we should plan on using that feature as well
23:11	nhandler	cprofitt: Does Moodle support OpenID?
23:11	Vantrax	nhandler: it does
23:11	cprofitt	nhandler, I believe we are working on that...
23:11	cprofitt	not sure if we have the config done on it though
23:11	cprofitt	bodhi is the man with the plan there
23:11	Vantrax	nope, bodhi will be working on it
23:12	nhandler	We could maybe use that along with the Launchpad API to grant certain privileges on Moodle to members of certain teams
23:12	cprofitt	Yes..
23:12	Vantrax	nhandler: that would be a good idea
23:12	cprofitt	we will have to have admins, instructors and students
23:12	cprofitt	the instructor lead classes will need periods in which the course can be registered for
23:13	Vantrax	also probably a moderators for a stream
23:13	cprofitt	self-paced can be 100% open
23:13	cprofitt	last topic Vantrax ?
23:13	cprofitt	[TOPIC]Session feedback mechanism
23:13	MootBot	New Topic: Session feedback mechanism
23:14	Vantrax	forestpixie asked about this
23:14	forestpixie	Bodhi wanted us to look into having some sort of feedback mechanism that users can access after sessions have run - the idea at the moment being a simple poll thread on the forum. He's talking to admin (at some point) about where we should do so - but does anyone have an problem with doing it that way or any other ideas.
23:14	Vantrax	that would be my idea
23:14	nhandler	If we are creating an LP team, we could also put the poll on LP
23:14	cprofitt	I agree we will want some form of feedback...
23:14	Vantrax	have a are of the forum related to questions and feedback on a specific session
23:14	Vantrax	have an area
23:14	forestpixie	nhandler: we were looking at new threads/pols for each session that runs
23:14	nhandler	Or we could also put feedback on the wiki below the IRC logs
23:15	cprofitt	I think we need to be cautious what we ask though... and how the information is processed
23:15	JoshuaRL	cprofitt: theres whole degrees in that sentence
23:15	forestpixie	+1 - just  a simple 1-5 poll and then if people wish to post in thread they can
23:15	cprofitt	JoshuaRL, yes there are
23:15	Vantrax	in principle I agree with the idea forestpixie but it will need to be dug into a bit
23:16	pleia2	nhandler: I like that, or failing that we use one of these other ideas and then link to the logs page so it's all accessible from one spot at least
23:16	cprofitt	forestpixie, I think we can work on the content (questions) at a later time...
23:16	pleia2	some people have trouble with editing wikis
23:16	forestpixie	pleia2: +1
23:16	nhandler	Because in my opinion, the comments are much more valuable than the actual rating
23:16	JoshuaRL	cprofitt: i have a friend thats a marketing major, i could ask him for suggestions
23:16	cprofitt	We could even use forums for it if we wanted a more simple place for editing
23:16	forestpixie	sounds good JoshuaRL
23:16	cprofitt	that would expose the courses in another place as well
23:17	forestpixie	that is bodhi's thought cprofitt
23:17	cprofitt	JoshuaRL, it is less marketing...
23:17	cprofitt	and more getting useful constructive information
23:17	JoshuaRL	cprofitt: but it IS marketing, from the feedback idea.  thats a big part of marketing.
23:17	cprofitt	no axe grinding, etc
23:17	cprofitt	any other ideas that anyone else has?
* cprofitt motions to close the meeting
23:18	forestpixie	above all it needs to be simple or people won't bother
23:18	Vantrax	So the project info we discussed here will be written up then mailed out and I will post it to planet
23:18	tim_sharitt	+1 cprofitt
23:18	nhandler	Vantrax: Are the logs/minutes going to be on the wiki as well?
23:18	forestpixie	I'll put the log on the FG wiki in a minute
23:18	cprofitt	#endmeeting
23:18	MootBot	Meeting finished at 17:18.
23:19	Vantrax	not too bad
23:19	JoshuaRL	thanks Vantrax cprofitt pleia2
23:19	Vantrax	ran faster than I thought:P
23:19	forestpixie	thanks all
23:19	nhandler	forestpixie: You can take the logs from MootBot
23:19	cprofitt	thanks for coming everyone!!!
23:19	cprofitt	I appreciated it.
23:19	forestpixie	nhandler: how
23:19	pleia2	thanks guys :)
23:19	cprofitt	I am gathering the mootbot logs now
23:19	cprofitt	and will put them on our meeting page
23:19	nhandler	:)
23:20	Vantrax	thanks for comining people
23:20	forestpixie	cool saves me then cprofitt
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CategoryBeginnersTeam