Log of Wiki Focus Group Meeting on 3/22/09

Meeting Agenda

Log

[Mon Mar 23 0:27:58] <Rocket2DMn> Ok, let's start

[Mon Mar 23 0:28:18] <Rocket2DMn> Welcome to our first meeting of the year We haven't had one in months. You can find the agenda at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/FocusGroups/Wiki

[Mon Mar 23 0:28:38] <Rocket2DMn> I'm going to throw a lot of links at you in this meeting, most are available on that above page.

[Mon Mar 23 0:28:50] <Rocket2DMn> for ibuclaw , thats https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/FocusGroups/Wiki

[Mon Mar 23 0:28:56] <cprofitt> I hope we have time for my short little blurb

[Mon Mar 23 0:29:11] <Rocket2DMn> we'll do our best cprofitt

[Mon Mar 23 0:29:11] <ibuclaw> coolios

[Mon Mar 23 0:29:13] <Rocket2DMn> Nano_ext3, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/FocusGroups/Wiki

[Mon Mar 23 0:29:21] <Rocket2DMn> I won't be explaining HOW to use the wiki today, we can work on that later, and anybody with questions can ask me at any time.

[Mon Mar 23 0:29:28] <Rocket2DMn> I think you guys know how

[Mon Mar 23 0:29:38] <Rocket2DMn> For those who haven't read through our FG homepage (above), please take the time to at least scan through it sometime soon. In an effort to be better coordinated with the Ubuntu Doc team, this FG doesn't maintain a separate IRC channel or mailing list.

[Mon Mar 23 0:29:52] <Nano_ext3> I will scan through it tnt

[Mon Mar 23 0:29:59] <Rocket2DMn> Everybody on this FG should join the WikiTeam on LP which part of the Doc Team.

[Mon Mar 23 0:30:9] <Rocket2DMn> You should also be subscribed to the ubuntu-doc mailing list (link on the above page). Don't forget to send your introduction to the mailing list - you can just tell them who you are, that you work with the Beginners Team, and that you are interested in helping with the community docs.

[Mon Mar 23 0:30:36] <Rocket2DMn> If there are specific types of pages or areas that you want to document, you can mention those too, or feel free to ask on the list what pages they would like worked on.

[Mon Mar 23 0:30:47] <ds305> tbh I am subscribed to the mailing list but rarely find much of interest.

[Mon Mar 23 0:31:8] <Rocket2DMn> thats ok ds305 , not much interesting on it, but there are occassions that good stuff is there, particularly announcements

[Mon Mar 23 0:31:20] <ds305> true enough

[Mon Mar 23 0:31:27] <Rocket2DMn> This FG is primarily geared toward Wiki documentation, but feel free to expand into system docs if you want.

[Mon Mar 23 0:31:42] <Rocket2DMn> I know OldSoldier got into official docs last year

[Mon Mar 23 0:31:51] <Rocket2DMn> =/

[Mon Mar 23 0:31:58] <Rocket2DMn> Any questions about joining the team, or anything else so far?

[Mon Mar 23 0:32:33] <Nano_ext3> no , i will copy this text into a file

[Mon Mar 23 0:32:54] <Rocket2DMn> this is being recorded as well Nano_ext3 , ill post it on the wiki when i can get the log from nhandler

[Mon Mar 23 0:33:12] <Rocket2DMn> Ok, moving on then.

[Mon Mar 23 0:33:20] <Rocket2DMn> Our primary focus over the next few months should be getting the Community Docs (help.ubuntu.com/community or just h.u.c) up to date for Jaunty which is due out next month. You can start in advance of the release, though the closer to the release date the updates are, the better.

[Mon Mar 23 0:33:56] <Rocket2DMn> Jaunty is due to be released in almost extactly 1 month

[Mon Mar 23 0:34:11] <Rocket2DMn> the RC is due out on the 16th, that is probably a good date to really start getting the docs updates

[Mon Mar 23 0:34:24] <Rocket2DMn> just FYI - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JauntyReleaseSchedule

[Mon Mar 23 0:34:47] <Rocket2DMn> Last summer we spent a lot of time getting the docs up to date for Hardy - wiki pages tend to fall out of date after a couple of releases. References to unsupported releases need to be removed, new stuff added, etc, etc.

[Mon Mar 23 0:35:4] <Rocket2DMn> I generally just like to focus on existing wiki pages since there is a pretty comprehensive list - https://help.ubuntu.com/community/TitleIndex

[Mon Mar 23 0:35:27] <Rocket2DMn> there is a lot of useless stuff there, i think you'll be able to recognize which ones are really important, or that interest you

[Mon Mar 23 0:35:43] <Rocket2DMn> As of last year, the best way to check what pages need work is to use Tags - https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Tag

[Mon Mar 23 0:35:57] <Rocket2DMn> Tags are pretty self-explanatory and can help give you direction when working on pages - esp. pages that need Cleanup or Expansion.

[Mon Mar 23 0:36:14] <Rocket2DMn> For those who weren't around last summer, Categories are the predecessors of tags, and many are still used, most often to mark the content of pages. Here's a list - https://help.ubuntu.com/community/CategoryCategory

[Mon Mar 23 0:36:55] <Rocket2DMn> you dont really need to worry much about categories

[Mon Mar 23 0:37:2] <Rocket2DMn> that was just some background info for you

[Mon Mar 23 0:37:12] <Rocket2DMn> One that matters: CategoryCleanup is one that still needs a lot of work as it has not been fully converted into Tags yet - https://help.ubuntu.com/community/CategoryCleanup

[Mon Mar 23 0:37:34] <Rocket2DMn> its almost so large that it loses its usefulness

[Mon Mar 23 0:37:52] <Rocket2DMn> That said, Tags are for marking pages that need work, and Categories are really just used to categorize page content.

[Mon Mar 23 0:38:9] <Rocket2DMn> Now that I've rambled on for a bit ... Questions about Categories or Tags?

[Mon Mar 23 0:38:35] <Rocket2DMn> or anything else related to wiki structure/organization?

[Mon Mar 23 0:38:40] <Nano_ext3> will review all links tomorrow so I get a better understanding of what all of you go through

[Mon Mar 23 0:38:45] <ds305> o?

[Mon Mar 23 0:38:51] <ds305> o/

[Mon Mar 23 0:39:15] <Rocket2DMn> Nano_ext3, Don't hesitate to ask for help if you are confused, some stuff is not very evident when you first start

[Mon Mar 23 0:39:18] <Rocket2DMn> ds305, go ahead

[Mon Mar 23 0:39:23] <Nano_ext3> Rocket2DMn: will do

[Mon Mar 23 0:39:24] <ds305> Is there any coordination between our group (BT FG) and others as to who works on what pages?

[Mon Mar 23 0:39:29] <Nano_ext3> I need to at least read them first

[Mon Mar 23 0:39:38] <ds305> Or just whoever gets to it?

[Mon Mar 23 0:39:57] <Rocket2DMn> There really isnt any structure to who works on pages, its anarchy since its a community wiki

[Mon Mar 23 0:40:9] <Rocket2DMn> we will be trying to organize between ourselves a bit though

[Mon Mar 23 0:40:26] <ds305> Ok. Yes, I know you kept a list internally last year.

[Mon Mar 23 0:40:34] <Rocket2DMn> yeah, we'll be doing the same thing

[Mon Mar 23 0:40:46] <ds305> But if there are so many pages needing updating I can see where that prob won't work.

[Mon Mar 23 0:41:8] <Rocket2DMn> yeah, you really just gotta grab some and do your thing, if others not on the BT work on them, too, that's life

[Mon Mar 23 0:41:41] <ds305> I think the list I remember was late in the game and were a few that needed special consideration.

[Mon Mar 23 0:41:43] <Nano_ext3> wonders if someone working on one goes to save, and destroys anothers changes

[Mon Mar 23 0:42:3] <ds305> I think they are locked during editing by someone Nano_ext3

[Mon Mar 23 0:42:9] <Nano_ext3> kk

[Mon Mar 23 0:42:9] <cprofitt> they are not locked...

[Mon Mar 23 0:42:14] <cprofitt> but others do get warned

[Mon Mar 23 0:42:14] <Rocket2DMn> Nano_ext3, in cases where there is conflict, the wiki will tell you. When oyu go to edit a page, it will alert anybody who tries to edit it that it is being worked on (for 5 min)

[Mon Mar 23 0:42:21] <Nano_ext3> I see

[Mon Mar 23 0:42:23] <ds305> Yes

[Mon Mar 23 0:42:41] <Nano_ext3> Like a good school boy im logging this meeting to go over it later

[Mon Mar 23 0:42:41] <Rocket2DMn> if you do some edits, then click Preview, that 5 minute countdown resets

[Mon Mar 23 0:42:42] <Nano_ext3>

[Mon Mar 23 0:43:13] <Rocket2DMn> PLEASE don't save the page every time you make a little edit, use PREVIEW - do all your changes THEN save the page

[Mon Mar 23 0:43:23] <cprofitt> smirks

[Mon Mar 23 0:43:31] <Rocket2DMn> otherwise you create a lot of email traffic and ts harder to roll back changes, track changes, etc

[Mon Mar 23 0:43:39] <cprofitt> unless you want to bombard Rocket2DMn with email messages

[Mon Mar 23 0:43:43] <Nano_ext3> Can anyone edit a page?

[Mon Mar 23 0:43:52] <Rocket2DMn> lol cprofitt , not just me, lots of people

[Mon Mar 23 0:43:56] <Nano_ext3> or do n00bs like myself have to wait until Im non noobish

[Mon Mar 23 0:43:56] <ds305> Question about versions - now or later on?

[Mon Mar 23 0:43:59] <Rocket2DMn> Nano_ext3, anybody with a launchpad account

[Mon Mar 23 0:44:3] <Nano_ext3> ok

[Mon Mar 23 0:44:10] <Rocket2DMn> now is ok ds305

[Mon Mar 23 0:44:54] <ds305> I assume we will keep LTS. Do we replace Intrepid refs with Jaunty after the release?

[Mon Mar 23 0:45:16] <Rocket2DMn> documentation on the wiki should work for all supported versions of Ubuntu

[Mon Mar 23 0:45:35] <Rocket2DMn> Most of the time, stuff doesnt change, but in the cases that it does, you usually just need to break sections down into subsections

[Mon Mar 23 0:45:55] <Rocket2DMn> you really gotta play it on a case-by-case basis, in some instances there are completely separate pages for older releases (like Dapper)

[Mon Mar 23 0:46:7] <ds305> So if there is a reference to Intrepid, do we add Jaunty or replace Intrepid, or don't most reference a specific version (other than LTS)

[Mon Mar 23 0:46:20] <ds305> Ok

[Mon Mar 23 0:46:22] <cprofitt> ds305 - that would depend

[Mon Mar 23 0:46:37] <Rocket2DMn> dont replace anything if you can help it, usually you just expand on it. the only stuff we delete is for unsupported versions

[Mon Mar 23 0:46:48] <ds305>

[Mon Mar 23 0:46:50] <Rocket2DMn> which btw, Gutsy EOL is approaching as Jaunty gets released

[Mon Mar 23 0:46:51] <cprofitt> in some cases there would be nothing more to do than verify that things are the same... at other times you may add notes to tell people what the changes are

[Mon Mar 23 0:47:2] <Nano_ext3> EQL?

[Mon Mar 23 0:47:9] <Rocket2DMn> EOL = end of life

[Mon Mar 23 0:47:13] <Nano_ext3> k

[Mon Mar 23 0:47:14] <cprofitt> I would not replace a reference until the version goes End Of Life

[Mon Mar 23 0:47:23] <Rocket2DMn> gutsy - 7.10 - normal release => 1.5 years of support

[Mon Mar 23 0:47:24] <ds305> Makes sense.

[Mon Mar 23 0:48:25] <Rocket2DMn> let me see if i can find a good example page

[Mon Mar 23 0:48:39] <Rocket2DMn> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/NetworkAdmin#Start

[Mon Mar 23 0:49:3] <Rocket2DMn> you can see there is a separate bullet for Gutsy and older, and thats all that's needed for something simple like that

[Mon Mar 23 0:49:27] <Rocket2DMn> whereas here, i made a completely separate page for Dapper b/c its so different - https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Repositories/Ubuntu/Dapper

[Mon Mar 23 0:49:35] <Rocket2DMn> its parent page - https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Repositories/Ubuntu

[Mon Mar 23 0:49:35] <Nano_ext3> best screen capture app for taking pics?

[Mon Mar 23 0:49:47] <Rocket2DMn> alt+PrintScreen

[Mon Mar 23 0:49:53] <Nano_ext3> ty

[Mon Mar 23 0:49:54] <ds305> Hey, that's the one I redid when it became outdated!

[Mon Mar 23 0:49:57] <Rocket2DMn> that will capture the currently active window

[Mon Mar 23 0:50:9] <ds305> When you told me too, of course.

[Mon Mar 23 0:50:15] <Rocket2DMn> cool ds305 , i created the Dapper page iirc

[Mon Mar 23 0:50:32] <Rocket2DMn> no i lied!

[Mon Mar 23 0:50:34] <Rocket2DMn> you did!

[Mon Mar 23 0:50:51] <Rocket2DMn> groovy

[Mon Mar 23 0:50:56] <ds305> No, I updated it from Dapper to LTS

[Mon Mar 23 0:51:17] <ds305> * Hardy

[Mon Mar 23 0:51:35] <Rocket2DMn> well we threw around a lot of work

[Mon Mar 23 0:51:49] <Nano_ext3> does someone also update the wikipedia entry or , you guys dont worry about that

[Mon Mar 23 0:52:19] <Rocket2DMn> we dont fiddle with wikipedia

[Mon Mar 23 0:52:40] <Nano_ext3> noted

[Mon Mar 23 0:52:42] <Rocket2DMn> are we ready to move on? we can do more questions at the end

[Mon Mar 23 0:53:1] <ds305> Go

[Mon Mar 23 0:53:1] <Rocket2DMn> Ok, well all this leads us into the next item on our agenda - Summer!

[Mon Mar 23 0:53:5] <cprofitt> looks guilty of fiddling with wikipedia

[Mon Mar 23 0:53:14] <Rocket2DMn> Last year we organized a Summer of Documentation in which we tracked our work updating pages with info and making them look more professional - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/FocusGroups/Wiki/SoD2008

[Mon Mar 23 0:53:37] <Rocket2DMn> that page explains what we did and shows the pages we worked on

[Mon Mar 23 0:54:0] <Rocket2DMn> We are hoping to do something similar this year, and we have Matthew East (mdke) 's full support. He is the leader of the Ubuntu Documentation team. He would like us to include more than just the BT, but we will work on that later.

[Mon Mar 23 0:54:29] <Rocket2DMn> Just as a brief info (we'll cover more at a later meeting) we tracked our changes here last year - https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Beginners/Development

[Mon Mar 23 0:54:46] <Rocket2DMn> (The Finished section got moved to the SoD page above)

[Mon Mar 23 0:55:2] <Rocket2DMn> I will clean up that page soon, but the long story short is we just list pages there that need work (Still Available table). Then anybody can move the entry to another table (Claimed) on the page and assign it to yourself. When you are finished, you just move it to another table (Finished).

[Mon Mar 23 0:55:25] <Rocket2DMn> That helps us from duplicating work, and we can see what each other are doing. I like to have FG members run their updated pages by senior members for approval before marking it as complete.

[Mon Mar 23 0:56:5] <Rocket2DMn> We like to check eachother's work so we can provide the best documentation possible, and we can help eachother with MoinMoin wiki syntax, etc

[Mon Mar 23 0:56:38] <Rocket2DMn> Anyway, that's just a brief intro to this summer's plans, hopefully we can recruit more helpers before then. We will talk more about Summer at our next meeting

[Mon Mar 23 0:56:59] <Rocket2DMn> Any quick questions about summer?

[Mon Mar 23 0:57:26] <Nano_ext3> is overwhelmed, but is hanging in there

[Mon Mar 23 0:57:49] <Rocket2DMn> i know, its a lot of info Nano_ext3 , dont stress it, you can ask questions at anytime

[Mon Mar 23 0:58:9] <Nano_ext3> I think first I will just review this log of this meeting and next meeting I can be a little more prepped

[Mon Mar 23 0:58:13] <Rocket2DMn> unfortunatley there really isnt any shortcut to learning the wiki stuff, you just gotta read some of the help pages and whatnot

[Mon Mar 23 0:58:18] <Nano_ext3> I will hold q's for now

[Mon Mar 23 0:58:25] <Nano_ext3> trust me i have 100

[Mon Mar 23 0:58:27] <Nano_ext3>

[Mon Mar 23 0:58:36] <cprofitt> smiles

[Mon Mar 23 0:58:57] <Rocket2DMn> Nano_ext3, on the Wiki FG page i gave at the beginning of the meeting, there are a bunch of links at the bottom to help with learning wiki syntax and all that technical stuff

[Mon Mar 23 0:59:4] <Rocket2DMn> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/FocusGroups/Wiki

[Mon Mar 23 0:59:31] <Nano_ext3> ok like I said, give it some time I will get accustomed to it

[Mon Mar 23 0:59:35] <Rocket2DMn> Maybe I should clarify though, wiki.ubuntu.com is NOT the same as help.ubuntu.com/community

[Mon Mar 23 0:59:45] <Nano_ext3> explain

[Mon Mar 23 0:59:49] <Nano_ext3> I know that but go ahead

[Mon Mar 23 1:0:2] <Rocket2DMn> w.u.c is the TEAM wiki, not specifically for documentation, its for organizing teams mostly

[Mon Mar 23 1:0:27] <Rocket2DMn> there is all kinds of info on w.u.c about contirbuting to ubuntu, etc, and that is where the Beginners team keeps its wiki structure

[Mon Mar 23 1:0:40] <Rocket2DMn> h.u.c/community is the Community Docs - this is where the WikiTeam does its work

[Mon Mar 23 1:0:59] <Nano_ext3> ok

[Mon Mar 23 1:1:8] <Rocket2DMn> h.u.c (no /community) is the web version of the OFFICIAL ubuntu docs (the same you get from yelp @ System->Help and Support)

[Mon Mar 23 1:1:16] <Nano_ext3> I willl have to reorginize my meeting notes here @.@ haha

[Mon Mar 23 1:1:39] <Rocket2DMn> Nowadays the Community Docs have a different theme, you can see it is statically sized

[Mon Mar 23 1:1:52] <Rocket2DMn> it looks more like ubuntu.com

[Mon Mar 23 1:2:27] <Rocket2DMn> i can explain more to you later

[Mon Mar 23 1:2:33] <Rocket2DMn> Ok, cprofitt wanted to talk about our FG tieing in with the Education group. Fill us in cprofitt...

[Mon Mar 23 1:2:49] <cprofitt> yes... yes

[Mon Mar 23 1:3:10] <cprofitt> One of the plans that the EDU group has is to leverage the wiki material as part of 'classes'

[Mon Mar 23 1:3:27] <cprofitt> the wiki entries would form the 'how-to' part of the knowledge...

[Mon Mar 23 1:3:48] <cprofitt> and the EDU group would add 'exercises' for people to actually employ the knowledge

[Mon Mar 23 1:4:16] <cprofitt> I am curious if you those exercises should be added to the wiki article itself or on a sep. page

[Mon Mar 23 1:4:27] <cprofitt> but I have not worked through that detail yet...

[Mon Mar 23 1:4:32] <Rocket2DMn> I would suggest a separate page cprofitt , perhaps like /Exercises

[Mon Mar 23 1:4:51] <cprofitt> the EDU team may, as a result of using the wiki entries, find inaccurate information

[Mon Mar 23 1:5:22] <cprofitt> so the effort is kept organized I wanted to find out what process you want them to follow, if any, for correcting the information

[Mon Mar 23 1:5:45] <Rocket2DMn> Well there are a couple of options cprofitt

[Mon Mar 23 1:6:7] <Rocket2DMn> If the changes are simple, users can make them by themselves, or they can ask us to help them make the changes

[Mon Mar 23 1:6:10] <ds305> Perhaps we could coord so the applicable wiki pages could be reviewed before you do the session. Or would the teacher be doing that.

[Mon Mar 23 1:6:29] <Rocket2DMn> They can also email the doc-team, or open a bug report if its a little more complicated

[Mon Mar 23 1:6:41] <cprofitt> the 'instructor' would likely be reviewing the material to ensure accuracy

[Mon Mar 23 1:6:56] <Rocket2DMn> ds305, +1, teachers should definitely review pages they intend to use before classroom sessions

[Mon Mar 23 1:7:49] <Rocket2DMn> I think it is a valid assumption to say that the instructor knows the material, but if they don't know _how_ to edit the wiki, I or others in our FG would be happy to help teach them or make quick edits for them

[Mon Mar 23 1:8:25] <cprofitt> sounds good...

[Mon Mar 23 1:8:48] <cprofitt> the last bit would then be that people who are editing the wiki - being subject experts - may want to develop exercises themselves...

[Mon Mar 23 1:8:54] <ds305> Yes, perhaps at least let each instructor know the wiki team is available to help update the page if necessary.

[Mon Mar 23 1:9:1] <cprofitt> even if they do not want to 'teach' the material on IRC

[Mon Mar 23 1:9:9] <cprofitt> smiles

[Mon Mar 23 1:9:14] <Rocket2DMn> cprofitt, for Exercises, I would take that question to the ubuntu-doc mailing list

[Mon Mar 23 1:9:22] <Rocket2DMn> I think a separate page should be used

[Mon Mar 23 1:9:25] <cprofitt> to be honest I think a great number of the two teams will be the same exact people

[Mon Mar 23 1:9:35] <cprofitt> given the nature of the work load

[Mon Mar 23 1:9:47] <cprofitt> yes,... a sep page is likely best...

[Mon Mar 23 1:9:55] <cprofitt> most likely as a sub-page

[Mon Mar 23 1:10:3] <Rocket2DMn> Yes, if Wiki FG members want to teach a session on something they know, the by all means...

[Mon Mar 23 1:10:9] <Rocket2DMn> +1 cprofitt , for instance - https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RenameUSBDrive

[Mon Mar 23 1:10:19] <Rocket2DMn> if you want to have exercises, make https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RenameUSBDrive/Exercises

[Mon Mar 23 1:11:10] <Rocket2DMn> again, i would take that suggestion to the doc team mailing list

[Mon Mar 23 1:11:11] <cprofitt> +1

[Mon Mar 23 1:12:8] <Rocket2DMn> Does anybody have anything else they want to discuss?

[Mon Mar 23 1:12:46] <Nano_ext3> @.@ not at the moment

[Mon Mar 23 1:12:55] <Rocket2DMn> Ok, then I move to close this meeting

[Mon Mar 23 1:13:18] <Rocket2DMn> Thanks for attending guys, I'll stick around to answer any questions!

[Mon Mar 23 1:13:24] <Rocket2DMn> .meeting

[Mon Mar 23 1:13:24] <Votebot> =-=-=Meeting mode disabled=-=-=

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