Subject : http://ubuntu-be.org | get supp http://ubuntu-be.org | get support at #ubuntu-nl, #ubuntu-fr, #ubuntu-de, #ubuntu | IRC meeting on Thursday 16/12/2010 at 21h, see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BelgianTeam/IrcMeetings for agenda and more information
<jean7491> hi to all, who is here for the meeting ?
* woutervddn looks for activity..
* JanC is here, but had to get up at 2h30 this morning to bring my parents to Zaventem, so please no long meeting...  :P
<massimo21> :-)
<woutervddn> lol at jan
<woutervddn> hi jean7491, massimo21, janC, gadeynebram, and every1 else..
<jean7491> hello JanC , woutervddn , massimo21 , ... gadeynebram ?
<woutervddn> I suppose he's here for the meeting, as he said I wasn't sure he was going to make it :)
<jean7491> ok,  ... anyone else for the meeting ?
<massimo21> clamam can't be present today
<jean7491> ok
<jean7491> we start now or wait a few minutes ?
<woutervddn> does mongolito404 come?
<jean7491> no idea
<woutervddn> hmm..
<gadeynebram> I'm here two
<jean7491> hello gadeynebram
<jean7491> i sent a remember mail to mongolito404
<jean7491> I propose we start now
<jean7491> with 1st topic about events
<woutervddn> I remember someone said he couldn't be here today but I forgot who..
<jean7491> ?
<jean7491> topic #1.  future events -   december 2010 – januari 2011
<jean7491> 1st item, looking to 2010 ...
<jean7491>  item #1  Summary - what did we done in 2010 ?
* mongolito404 (~mongolito@83.101.48.171) a rejoint #ubuntu-be
<mongolito404> Hi
<jean7491>  hi mongolito404
<woutervddn> o/
<jean7491> in total, we participated to 22 computer fairs + fosdem, and organized 4 events related to ubuntu and foss.
<jean7491> congratulations and thanks to all volunteers for their enthusiasm and engagement in the promotion of ubuntu.
<jean7491> but we should look for other ways/events to continue the promotion ... other ideas ?
<gadeynebram> oh and there was some promotion on our local lan party ;-)
<massimo21> buurthuisen but we need an education team
<jean7491> gadeynebram : a "report", feedback or a few words in the mailing list are important for the summary of our actions
<woutervddn> gadeynebram how did the lan party go? there was talk about another lanparty at genk in may..
<jean7491> otherwise nobody knows what you did
<woutervddn> I do agree with massimo21 that an education team might be handy..
<massimo21> there is a big chance that we participate @ lanparty in c-mine thanks to clamam
<gadeynebram> the lanparty itself was great, but the main os was windows. A lot of gamers where interested in ubuntu and asked for a cd-rom. Problem was that we did not have a internet connection so installing was not really an option. But I know some of them have installed ubuntu afterwards because of some e-mails with questions I've received.
<JanC> that's good
<JanC> any Ubuntu games they liked?
<jean7491> an education team should usefull, but we need volunteers! about lanparty, exchange of information through the mailing list and to clamam is necessary !
<gadeynebram> Yes
<gadeynebram> I had the installation files for warzone 2100 for windows and ubuntu
<gadeynebram> we did one match with that game
<massimo21> clamam is working on it
<massimo21> he had a meeting with the organizers
<gadeynebram> Well for the education team we would first need to outline where we want to go with it.. should it be to promote education with ubuntu, should it be sessions explaining ubuntu, ...
<massimo21> we can be there to promote ubuntu
<massimo21> for 3 days
<JanC> gadeynebram: can you put that report on the mailing list too?
<woutervddn> I thought about that lanparty and I think it should be uber if we could run all 'real' lan games..
<gadeynebram> uber?
<JanC> he means über  ;-)
<woutervddn> read as super.. (sorry slang-language..)
<woutervddn> that would prove linux is also capable of being a decent game station..
<gadeynebram> the problem with lan party's and ubuntu is that you need an active internet connection
<massimo21> here is a good site to track linux games
<gadeynebram> actually we've used ubuntu as a game server for some games
<massimo21> http://www.penguspy.com/#/All/free_and_commercial/sort=1/view=1/limit=0
<JanC> Frozen Bubble network game...  :P
<woutervddn> :p
<woutervddn> playonlinux was made so wine would configure right for each game..
<mongolito404> For games: http://www.playdeb.net/welcome/
<massimo21> penguspy is more up to date
<gadeynebram> but I'm afraid that real gamers will stick to windows because of their favorite games and the bad video support in ubuntu
<woutervddn> gadeynebram, that isn't allways the case.. we tried it this summer and appart from 2 games (out of the 15) I was capable to join and play the multiplayer games
<woutervddn> but it did took me 2 days to set it up..
<mongolito404> Real LAN FPS on Ubuntu: OpenArena, Nexuiz, Revenge Of the Cats, Warsow & Tremoulous
<mongolito404> World of Padman
<massimo21> world of padman
<JanC> there is also the "indy bundles"
<gadeynebram> Well you can always install ubuntu for some gamers or let them do it and then do some compos with these games
<gadeynebram> but I'm not a gaming expert :p
<jean7491> we certainly will come back later on this issue, i propose we continue with events ...
<woutervddn> I'm spending newyears eve with a game-freak-friend.. I might go over that subject with him :p
<jean7491> ok
<woutervddn> jean4791: 1 other thing about the education part..
<jean7491> yes 
<woutervddn> I was stunned this week that end-terms for our schools say that all people that leave school at 18 should be capable of using windows..
<woutervddn> now in my opinion we might want to try to sent a letter to our ministry about this..
<gadeynebram> lol en how do you define using windows? :p maybe they meen using windows to install virtual box or wubi and then use ubuntu..
<woutervddn> imo they should give a little more support for alternatives..
<massimo21> also for people that can't afford windows
<gadeynebram> I think this is a good proposal Woutervddn!
<woutervddn> especcially schools.. having to pay another version of windows every 2 years (times all their computers) is a massive bill
<massimo21> and we pay that bill
<massimo21> :-(
* steabert (~svc@94-227-3-81.access.telenet.be) a rejoint #ubuntu-be
<steabert> hi
<massimo21> hi
<jean7491> buhi steabert
<woutervddn> if we'd be able to set up an educational team we might be able to trigger an awareness campaign among the youth..
<steabert> apologies for the late entry :)
<woutervddn> hi steabert..
<gadeynebram> problem is that changing to ubuntu would meen extra sessions to show the teachers how it works and than it can become even more expensive... Other problem is also that mostly the network administrator has little knowledge about configuring networks and to do it in ubuntu would be even more difficult
<jean7491> steabert , no problem
<woutervddn> gadeynebram.. I'm wondering how many schools allready run linux on their servers..
<jean7491> you could post ideas in the mailing list, hoping for reactions
<woutervddn> I installed edubuntu for the ubuntu-artwork project and those to a hell of a job..
<woutervddn> they use kde & gnome whitout getting clutter and have a whole set off mouth dropping features..
<woutervddn> jean7491: I will put in on the ml :)
<jean7491> and we can put it on the agenda for a future meeting
<woutervddn> ok..
<gadeynebram> I have to say that I had two schools who asked me for a ubuntu cd
<gadeynebram> I've asked for some reports and they reported that the system was nice but to educate the teachers would not be so easy
<woutervddn> making a set of video tutorials would enable them to review everything (on their own tempo)..
<gadeynebram> they did have no knowledge about configuring ubuntu of for instance wine so the second problem was the windows specific software
<massimo21> in italy are already some scools ho teaches linux
<gadeynebram> Would it be possible to open some support mailing specific to networking related problems?
<gadeynebram> of maybe education purposes?
<JanC> there are schools using Ubuntu in Belgium too
<massimo21> from kindergarden
<gadeynebram> When questions arive we can then setup some sort of FAQ section or wiki
<massimo21> and higher
<JanC> gadeynebram: *if* teachers / ICT coordinators want such a list, we can set it up
<gadeynebram> But we should make some promotion about it then
* steabert est parti (Remote host closed the connection)
<JanC> currently, none of them ever asked questions...
* steabert (~svc@94-227-3-81.access.telenet.be) a rejoint #ubuntu-be
<JanC> (well, not many at least)
<jean7491> no idea, but i propose you think about that as a topic for a future meeting, if enough material to discuss
<jean7491> to continue with our agenda today ...
<JanC> preferably with some interested teachers (or teachers-to-be) to help us out  ☺
<massimo21> the teacher i know never answerd me back
<jean7491> eventually we come back on this subject at the end of the meeting ! a few words about events ... 
<woutervddn> yes events :p
<jean7491> item#2 dipro computer fair mechelen, 12/12/2010  - i've no report !
<jean7491> item #3 dipro computer fair leuven 16/01/2011, …
<jean7491> team is ok, logistic preparation started
<jean7491>  item #4 dipro computer fair hasselt 23/01/2011:  no problem
<massimo21> idd
<jean7491> item #5 dipro computer fair ghent 30/01/2011: to be started in januari
<jean7491> item #6 other events ...
<jean7491> digital week 2011, (28/02-05/03/2011)  remember, everyone can take an initiative in his own environment, if possible in contact with other organizations ...
<JanC> I gave Nero the CDs for the Leuven fair already
<jean7491> digital week is a nice opportunity to promote ubuntu, with the benefit of the digital week promotion
<massimo21> @Jeab7491: lan party in c-maine in may as i already told
<jean7491> about digital week, it high time to start contact, otherwise it will be to late
<jean7491> other comment about events ?
<jean7491> if no comment, next topic # 2. Promotion
<jean7491>  item #1 t-shirts for Ubuntu-be ...
<jean7491> update by wouter and bram ?
<woutervddn> yes..
<gadeynebram> go wouter!
<gadeynebram> :p
<woutervddn> well.. I mailed canonical (just to be sure) and like I thought official LoCo teams can make shirts as much as they want but must keep the brandingguidlines in mind...
<woutervddn> (they also said that a ubuntu-be cd isn't a problem)
<woutervddn> but anyways..
<woutervddn> bram and I are going to search for some printers (drukkerijen..) this weekend..
<woutervddn> we were talking about distributing the shirts..
<gadeynebram> Hope everyone received the reminder for extra proposals
<woutervddn> but we were wondering how it should be set up..
<woutervddn> without a doubt it would be a great addition to send them by mailorder but we need a way to monitor the payings..
<woutervddn> we were kind off hoping you guys have an idea about that...
<steabert> gadeynebram: yes, just waiting for the poll now
<gadeynebram> The poll will be launched monday using the website (launchpad I suppose)
<JanC> woutervddn: we would need to discuss that with Mark VdB and the other person who currently have access to the bank account
<woutervddn> janC I was thinking about that to, but I think that would be hard..
<JanC> I mean, discuss how we solve the payment monitoring issue  ☺
<woutervddn> if we use that bank account we'll need up to date info every single time someone wants a shirt..
<woutervddn> I will sent him a mail about that :)
<gadeynebram> about the distribution this is our current Idea: some distribution point receive packs (for instance 10) buyers can then contact one of their local distributors. T-shirts can also be send using the mail. For events We would propose that on every event, T-shirts would be selled. We're still looking for a system to monitor the amount of T-shirts in stock on the several locations
<JanC> that's another option, but somebody will have to follow up this closely then
<woutervddn> yeah.. :p
<mongolito404> For reference, my brother managed to sell tshirt online and sent everything (in Belgium) through the postal service without too much issue.
<woutervddn> but what do we do with people who want to come and get the shirt personal..
<JanC> sending stuff with the postal service is quite easy indeed
<woutervddn> mongolito404: how did he do that?
<JanC> just make sure you ask enough money to cover P&P
<mongolito404> He puts most of the tee in the classic brown enveloppe, I believe payment where managed throug PayPal
<gadeynebram> I would sell the T-shirts with a little extra fee
<woutervddn> problem is (as I see it) to keep overview of: the amount of money, the amount of shirts and to have that info up to date when the shirts are in several locations
<gadeynebram> That way we have extra fundings to promote ubuntu-be
<woutervddn> wouldn't paypal set off some people..
<JanC> gadeynebram: certainly we need to make a bit of money on it (e.g. also to cover leftover sizes & maybe lost t-shirts, etc.)
<woutervddn> bram: I thought that was the objective all along :p
<woutervddn> just wondering, would it be to much of a pain to set up a webshop?
<steabert> woutervddn: well, PayPal would set me off to buy one :)
<JanC> easiest & cheapest for payments is just transfering it
<gadeynebram> maybe the person(s) responsible for the financial part of ubuntu-be should discus this mather first
<woutervddn> or we could allow both..
<JanC> and we don't risk Paypal will steal our money that way  :P
<massimo21> i think buyers will trust more paypal
<woutervddn> I've got a paypal account and it's fast and easy.. and safe aswell :p
<JanC> lol
<mongolito404> The two obious "simple" choice are PayPal and Google Checkout
<woutervddn> but I know many people don't agree on that..
<JanC> massimo21: ask that to X.org Foundation
<woutervddn> I won't go for google checkout..
<JanC> after Paypal stole 4500 USD from them  :P
<gadeynebram> People who use paypal will trust it. But a lot of others only trust their bankcards and cash money
<mongolito404> PP takes 3.4% + 0.25€ per trans
<mongolito404> GC takes 2.9% + 0.3€ per transaction
<woutervddn> janC: what? :O
<mongolito404> Paypal accept direct VISA (and other credit cards) paiement (without registration)
<woutervddn> hmm.. on the other side it sucks that we'll lose money to either pp or gc when allow internet payment..
<JanC> woutervddn: http://www.fooishbar.org/blog/tech/x/paypal-2009-03-27-13-51.html
<steabert> bank transfer, then send the t-shirt when a payment is made
<JanC> steabert: that's my idea
<jean7491> we can not solve all aspect of the t-shirt project in this meeting: i suggest an exchange between the t-shirt team, JanC, mongolito404 and mark vdb, and come back another day on this issue
<JanC> or they can pay when picking a t-shirt up at a fair or whatever
<steabert> JanC: I agree
<mongolito404> tracking bank transferts isn't easy, it surely doable during a short period, but I would not plan on anybody doing it reliably for more than a month
<JanC> mongolito404: of course people whould need to mail "I did the transfer today, please check"
<mongolito404> Or you have some good SME bank tools (I always heard Isabel is nightmarish)
<mongolito404> depending on the banks, the weather and the age of the captain "I did the transfer today, please check" means you may have to check for three day in a row before showing the paiement.
<woutervddn> I'll think the possibility's over and mail my thoughts to JanC, mongolito404 and mark vdb..
<mongolito404> Anyway, all I'm saying is that it doesn't look like an easy task. But easy or not, I'm not the one who will do it.
<mongolito404> (because whatever the solution, I don't trust myself)
<mongolito404> This looks amazing: https://storegadgetwizard.appspot.com/storegadgetwizard/index.html
<jean7491> other announcement on this issue (t-shirts) ?
<gadeynebram> I don't think so
<gadeynebram> Oh yes!
<JanC> mongolito404: does it work without google account registration?
<gadeynebram> please vote!
<gadeynebram> using the poll I mean ;)
<mongolito404> Janc: Paiement with Google Checkout ? I don't know but I guess yes.
<JanC> anyway, they only support CC
<mongolito404> Yep, and seeing the screenshot, paiement requires a Google Account (but they provide a streamlined interface the create the account)
<jean7491> if no other comment, we continue ... item #2 we need a new french press contact, but no information yet
<jean7491> item #3 Customized Ubuntu-be iso file ? For fairs and events ...
<jean7491> it was suggested in a previous meeting: …  is it a project to be followed ? By who ?
<JanC> let's finish current projects (e.g. t-shirts) first  ;)
<massimo21> ok for me
<woutervddn> good point.. :) in januari the shirts will be ready, and between this and januari I don't think anyone will be making that iso..
<woutervddn> but all legal matters about the cd are OK :)
<massimo21> good to know
<woutervddn> but canonical seemed to be interested in the name..
<massimo21> what name?
<woutervddn> I said it was just a draft and that we'd inform when we had a decent plan laying in front of us..
<gadeynebram> I'm leaving... Goodnight to you all!
<steabert> gadeynebram: bye
<woutervddn> the name of the iso.. she asked if we were going to use ubuntu-be 10.10 as a name
<mongolito404> bye
<woutervddn> bye bram..
<jean7491> ok, bye bram
<JanC> woutervddn: normally it has to be called something with "remix" in the name AFAIK
<woutervddn> yeah.. ubuntu-be 10.10 remix indeed :p
* gadeynebram (~gadeynebr@83.101.71.95) a quitté #ubuntu-be
<JanC> I think it would need to be Ubuntu 10.10 Ubuntu-be Remix or something like that (not sure)
<woutervddn> but as far as my opinion goes this is a project that has my support..
<woutervddn> janC: I'll ask after the shirts are ready..
<jean7491> i suggest we continue with the next topic: I propose to skip the wiki update and to start with web-site update
<woutervddn> ok
<jean7491> about the web-site: support points page and map status  ? update pages “Participate” and support points ?
<jean7491> bug report about new page has been written, feel free to contribute to this development !
<mongolito404> The participate page has been updated
<woutervddn> jean was kind enough to get some spelling errors out :)
<woutervddn> my german isn't really good..
<woutervddn> can we translate the wiki page and put that in the info page to
<jean7491> which wiki page ?
<woutervddn> imo it's not a good idea to toss new support point from the site to the wiki to the site again and then to the add yourself page..
<mongolito404> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BelgianTeam/SupportPoints
<woutervddn> thx I was looking for the link but couldn't find it :p
<mongolito404> I agree, this page should be on the website.
<mongolito404> The wiki could be used to work on a English base version, but the published version should be on the website (with translation).
<mongolito404> Also, the page is old and on the wiki because at that time we didn't had the site and the map was a separated website (not integrated in any CMS).
<woutervddn> I'll work on the info page after tomorrow (last exam.. which me luck)
<massimo21> good luck
<woutervddn> thx.. i'll need it :p
<mongolito404> woutervddn: You mean the "Support Point" page as described in bug  #689770 ?
<woutervddn> is there anything you guys think about that should be added?
<woutervddn> sec.. i'll look it up, I don't know the bug numbers out of my head O_o
<mongolito404> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-belgium/+bug/689770
<massimo21> i'm leaving
<woutervddn> thx..
<woutervddn> bye massimo
<massimo21> good night
<massimo21> ;-)
* massimo21 (~massimo21@91.176.225.34) a quitté #ubuntu-be
<woutervddn> yes that page :)
<steabert> woutervddn: good luck, do you need it?
<woutervddn> yes, economics isn't my thing I'm studying sciences..
<woutervddn> I'll put my draft of that page on the ML first :)..
<woutervddn> (or mail it to the webeditors team)
<mongolito404> woutervddn: good luck, and thx for the work on the page :D
<mongolito404> If needed, we can create a web-editor ML (but using LP)
<jean7491>  good luck woutervddn !
<steabert> I'm still trying to figure out how the web editing works, especially how translation works
<mongolito404> If we (finally) start to have several people working on the website content (like we should), a dedicated ML may be helpful to avoid cluttering the main ML with work email (and use it mostly for annoucement and poll/request for feedback on draft)
<steabert> I propose we leave the discussion of the web-page as it's still in progress?
<mongolito404> I know how Drupal works so if you have any question shoot (best is by mail) and I4ll try to give you a complete answer
<steabert> mongolito404: is it possible to mail the launchpad people on a project through 1 address?
<woutervddn> mongolito404: mail drupal stuff back to me.. I don't understand drupal but I know the translating
<mongolito404> Not that I know, but you have a team contact form
<steabert> mongolito404: well, I guess that would be a ML...
<mongolito404> The thing is, I suck at explaining Drupal (and mostly anything) upfront and/or drive the dialog. I need to be asked something to be able to transfer some knowledge.
<jean7491> other comment on this topic ?
<steabert> mongolito404: something more specific than "how does translation work?"...
<steabert> I'll try to read some drupal how-to's
<steabert> jean7491: no
<jean7491> are there other questions not in the agenda ? (except next meeting)
* mongolito404 est parti (*.net *.split)
* jdb est parti (*.net *.split)
<JanC> netsplit
<woutervddn> not to my knowledge?
<JanC> translations in drupal are obvious if you have editing rights
<jean7491> if no question, ... last topic, next irc meeting ? 
<steabert> JanC: I feel dumb now...
<jean7491> i propose irc meeting next year, on thursday 05/01/2011 at 21 h.
<steabert> jean7491: agreed
<jean7491> but, of course, direct contacts and emails can continue !
<JanC> okay
<JanC> if needed, we can do an extra meeting about t-shirts by those involved whenever we want...
<jean7491> of course ! ... end of meeting - thanks to all for your participation, ...
<jean7491> to all, merry christmas and happy new year, and have a good night !