jan 20 21:04:12 hi to all, who is here for the meeting ? jan 20 21:04:22 :-) jan 20 21:04:38 I am jan 20 21:05:21 Hello jan 20 21:06:08 hi massimo21 woutervddn Clamam ! jan 20 21:07:19 25 people in the channel : anyone else for the meeting ? jan 20 21:07:57 I think JanC is here for the meeting as well.. jan 20 21:08:06 right jan 20 21:08:22 hi JanC jan 20 21:08:25 although, preferably a not-too-long meeting ;) jan 20 21:09:01 i'm not the one who writes for a long meeting ! jan 20 21:09:23 lol jan 20 21:09:56 we'd better start quick then :p jan 20 21:10:13 i understand 5 active people in the channel, and 20 "listening" ! jan 20 21:10:52 last call for participants to the meeting before we start ! jan 20 21:11:09 isn't there a way to send a message to all of them.. jan 20 21:11:37 a pm ? jan 20 21:12:04 most people are probably just idleing jan 20 21:12:19 no there's this command that gives the same result as when a name is specified.. there is even an option to autokick those not responding within a certain time.. jan 20 21:12:40 no idea about what to do, let's start ... jan 20 21:12:42 woutervddn: that sounds like some bot/script jan 20 21:12:59 as announced, we start today first with wiki and website ... jan 20 21:13:05 unforttunatly, mongolito404 will not be present ... jan 20 21:13:17 topic # 3. Update Wiki : are there suggestions or comments ? jan 20 21:13:37 * padv est parti (Remote host closed the connection) jan 20 21:13:58 I am not going to work on it before FOSDEM ;) jan 20 21:14:29 if no comment, topic# 4. Update web-site ... jan 20 21:14:42 mongolito404 informed us : “a) I fixed the Planet, this is worth mentioning b) tomorrow, I plan to deploy a test site for Activity Stream (as a way to include "social" stuffs on Ubuntu-be.org as suggested by woutervddn). c) Nothing ne for the map (;() “ jan 20 21:15:12 i've no input on this matter, comments ? jan 20 21:15:30 only comment: thanks to mongolito404 ☺ jan 20 21:15:45 Well I'm investigating the ubuntu-be blogroll.. :) jan 20 21:15:48 and thanks to woutervddn for complaining/asking ;) jan 20 21:16:05 (also thx from me to mongolito404) jan 20 21:16:10 and to jan xD jan 20 21:16:35 anyways.. the social script and the blogroll should make the website more dynamical.. jan 20 21:16:42 so people will come back to check it again :) jan 20 21:16:57 right jan 20 21:17:41 other comment ? jan 20 21:17:55 not atm I think.. jan 20 21:18:29 we continue with topic #1. Events - januari – februari 2011 jan 20 21:18:37 item #1 dipro computer fair leuven 16/01/2011, -report jan 20 21:18:47 afaik our booth was ok, not too much visitors, thanks to our volunteers in leuven ! jan 20 21:18:59 see booth report https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BelgianTeam/ComputerFairs/Leuven_2011-01-16 jan 20 21:19:19 comment about dipro leuven ? jan 20 21:20:04 item #2 dipro computer fair hasselt 23/01/2011: already ok – comment massimo21 or clamam jan 20 21:20:21 everthing is ready jan 20 21:20:31 ok jan 20 21:20:37 ok ;-) jan 20 21:20:49 thanks jan 20 21:20:55 item #3 dipro computer fair ghent 30/01/2011 ... jan 20 21:21:04 3 volunteers are registred in the wiki, but we need 3 additional people: … jan 20 21:21:06 about leuven, the corridors where way to small.. you couldn't interact with you computer and the visitors at the same time.. jan 20 21:21:39 about leuven, yes, same problem when not enough place ! jan 20 21:21:48 thanks massimo21 for giving the info, i was away for 5 minutes, my son was crying jan 20 21:21:58 I will maybe go to Ghent, but prefer to see other people... ;) jan 20 21:22:00 :-) jan 20 21:22:25 thanks Clamam, ok JanC jan 20 21:23:04 other volunteers (from ghent area), please add your names in the wiki ... jan 20 21:23:09 https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BelgianTeam/ComputerFairs/Ghent_2011-01-30 jan 20 21:23:36 next event : item #4 Dipro fair Kortrijk (06/02) : … jan 20 21:23:42 we need a local teamr - volunteers, please add your names in the wiki jan 20 21:24:04 https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BelgianTeam/ComputerFairs/Kortrijk_2011-02-06 jan 20 21:24:16 Kortrijk is during FOSDEM, so I won't be there... jan 20 21:24:18 item #5 fosdem 05-06/02/2011 – Brussels : JanC ?... jan 20 21:24:42 yanu: do you go to FOSDEM or can you help with the FOSDEM fair? jan 20 21:24:56 help with the Dipro fair jan 20 21:25:35 we will get some help & stuff from ubuntu-fr for FOSDEM jan 20 21:25:36 yanu is likely sleeping ! jan 20 21:26:01 sleeping? jan 20 21:26:40 not wake jan 20 21:27:11 have you other info about fosdem ? jan 20 21:27:17 I was just wondering why ☺ jan 20 21:28:06 about FOSDEM: I've been thinking about using some of the equipment of the Ghent fair box jan 20 21:28:51 Ow about every new fair in the future: if you have a telenet member in your team check out for hotspot.. jan 20 21:29:10 they are all free now.. (we had someone doing the same in leuven..) jan 20 21:29:12 it includes a big screen and at least 2 good laptops that people don't need for other things jan 20 21:30:38 for fosdem, you have the new banner and table cloth jan 20 21:30:40 I plan to bring more info about FOSDEM during the comming weeks jan 20 21:30:50 yes, plus table cloth from ubuntu-fr jan 20 21:31:09 as we go 2 tables, we'll need it jan 20 21:31:16 s/go/got/ jan 20 21:31:30 ok, btw, don't forget to add an after action report in the wiki belgian team jan 20 21:31:39 right ;) jan 20 21:31:48 with pics jan 20 21:32:07 anything else ? jan 20 21:32:07 if somebody brings a camera, sure jan 20 21:32:27 other comment ? jan 20 21:32:40 no, more about FOSDEM follows later jan 20 21:32:47 ok jan 20 21:32:53 item #6 digital week 2011, (28/02-05/03/2011) jan 20 21:33:01 who has new information about the digital week ? jan 20 21:33:07 already scheduled on 03/03/2011: presentation (2 sessions) of Ubuntu in the public library - Ostend jan 20 21:34:06 it's a pity that ubuntu-be is not more present in this event ! jan 20 21:34:45 I'm still working on my idea, but I need to find a partner school who's willing to do the same.. jan 20 21:35:05 (and to convince some extra people at my school..) jan 20 21:35:09 woutervddn: school, library, ... jan 20 21:35:46 ... as the major actor (linc vzw) support foss in the website and publications jan 20 21:35:48 library might work to.. I'll try it :) jan 20 21:37:46 for people who are curious, look at http://www.linc-vzw.be/ and vsng.be jan 20 21:38:03 next topic # 2. Promotion jan 20 21:38:11 item #1 t-shirts for Ubuntu-be : jan 20 21:38:17 update by wouter and bram ? jan 20 21:38:39 The shirts are ordered, printing will begin when mark has transfered the money.. jan 20 21:39:17 as you all know version V4 was chosen. We're working on a way to allow readers of the ML to pre-order the shirts at a special price. jan 20 21:40:08 JanC suggested to just use the ubuntu-be bank account for that jan 20 21:40:27 jean7491 talked about opening a seperate account for it.. jan 20 21:40:43 I don't really mind which one is chosen.. jan 20 21:40:49 your thoughts? jan 20 21:41:34 how wil the t-shirt be advertised and selled? jan 20 21:41:49 aim is not mixing private account with ubuntu matter, ... using the actual ubuntu-be account is difficult, only mark has access jan 20 21:42:15 we can change the people who have access... jan 20 21:42:40 for this reason, i propose a new ad-hoc bank-account jan 20 21:43:00 massimo21: working on that also.. I guess we'll make a survey for it, people should then toggle there size and put in there address and name. We can then pull it down in a spreadsheet.. :) jan 20 21:43:02 jean7491: such a bank account would be a personal account too... jan 20 21:43:45 idd, but just to collect money from t-shirts to be tranferred to mark ... jan 20 21:44:11 I think we need to discuss this more with Mark (and on the ML maybe) jan 20 21:44:54 this will be a private account, but we can add ubuntu in the name and open it to the 2 people from the t-shirt team ... jan 20 21:45:11 I don't really care where the money is going to in the first place. Most important thing is that it gets to the ubuntu-be account sooner or later.. jan 20 21:45:52 as I said before the meeting, lets defer this until after FOSDEm? jan 20 21:45:57 of course, we can discuss it with mark, ... but not in the mailing list as this is a loco team only matter ... jan 20 21:46:15 before FOSDEM, the t-shirts won't be available anyway jan 20 21:46:22 @jean7491 & JanC I agree that we don't benefit from having 2 accounts all the time, but keytrade enables us to close the account without costs.. jan 20 21:47:15 no we can not defer a decision after fosdem as we need to launch a presale asap jan 20 21:48:03 why do we need that? jan 20 21:48:04 Fosdam is more then 10 days away so we have time to discuss it for a few more days.. but things should be settled quite fast :) jan 20 21:48:30 JanC to get a 'special' offer to the people on the ML :) jan 20 21:48:44 is there a reason why we want that? ;) jan 20 21:48:51 so they are able to have something before anyone else can.. jan 20 21:49:09 as we start with, it is not limited to fosdem ... jan 20 21:49:11 people at FOSDEM will be the first jan 20 21:49:37 no way I'm going to ship t-shirts before FOSDEM jan 20 21:49:46 lol you don't need to :p jan 20 21:49:56 well, then what's the point? jan 20 21:50:01 perhaps receiving the t-shirts, but other people could order before fosdem ! jan 20 21:50:17 the ordering will be before fosdem, the payment until fosdem and the shipment the day after.. jan 20 21:50:28 presale = before t-shirts arrive jan 20 21:50:39 if we wait until after fosdem to start it all up it means we're 3 weeks later before shipment can start.. jan 20 21:50:47 so? jan 20 21:51:21 we should start presale tomorrow ... jan 20 21:51:49 as only a preorder with not yet payment jan 20 21:51:52 thats' only possible when using the ubuntu-be account, right? jan 20 21:52:48 preorder does not need prepayment, but well the will to buy it ... jan 20 21:53:03 hm jan 20 21:53:30 I still don't see the benefit of that jan 20 21:53:41 if 20 preorders, i'll be happy, and perhaps a few will not be finalized ... jan 20 21:53:53 but if you want, okay ;) jan 20 21:54:10 * mongolito404 est parti (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) jan 20 21:54:15 massimo21, clamam, what do you guys think? jan 20 21:54:45 agree with jean jan 20 21:55:18 we have to do something, i agree with jean jan 20 21:55:34 1. is promotion inside ubuntu-be, 2. we are pretty sure about people who will preorder, 3. we have nothing to lose, no t-shirt without payment jan 20 21:55:36 in any case, I would prefer the bank account question to get more thought though jan 20 21:56:03 janC why exactly is that? jan 20 21:57:06 how much will a t-shirt cost? jan 20 21:57:34 well, I'd prefer the official account to be used, but that will require time jan 20 21:58:31 as far as i remember, one day mark said he was not happy with a possibility like that jan 20 21:58:58 = a lot of movements on the account jan 20 21:59:04 (using the official account also means it's less likely you get in trouble with the tax office) jan 20 21:59:29 massimo21: 3.5€ top.. jan 20 21:59:42 I'm looking in to a cheaper method.. jan 20 22:00:06 i ment how much will we sale it? jan 20 22:00:07 jean7491: it's always possible to add more/other people to manage the ubuntu-be account jan 20 22:00:37 i said it a couple of times, but why not paypal. sorry to bring it up again. i use it many times. jan 20 22:00:41 massimo21 probably 13 to 14 euro's with shipment.. jan 20 22:01:19 for the problem tax office : for this reason i asked a clear bank-account only for t-shirt, not mixed with personal matter jan 20 22:01:26 clamam: paypal takes a part of the costs for its own :) jan 20 22:02:04 how much? jan 20 22:02:21 sometimes 100%, as I explained last time ;) jan 20 22:02:54 of course we can discuss with mark on this issue, ... jan 20 22:03:09 i disagree with JanC jan 20 22:03:10 I'll ask mark about it.. :) jan 20 22:03:14 IMO we *do* have a bank account, so we should use it jan 20 22:03:53 but it might take some time to get other people access to the account jan 20 22:04:21 including going to the bank together with Mark... jan 20 22:06:03 not sure by keytrade bank ! jan 20 22:08:21 going to the bank is a requirement for "feitelijke verenigingen" jan 20 22:08:51 which is probably why Keytrade doesn't allow it (the have no local offices I think?) jan 20 22:09:32 yes they have.. but only 1 in brussels.. jan 20 22:09:41 and our other account is also at keytrade bank.. jan 20 22:11:09 well, not allow it on their web site at least? jan 20 22:12:18 summary: does people (ordering outside fairs/events) have to pay directly to ubuntu-be (mark) or is it better to have another bank account to collect money before transfer to mark ? jan 20 22:12:57 ubuntu-be is not mark, he just happens to be the only active person that happens to have access to the bank account jan 20 22:13:13 I'd say it's at least as important to fix that problem ;) jan 20 22:16:09 we can not fix the problem "who is ubuntu-be?" ! but it is not the question we have to answer to progress with the t-shirts, ... we will have to come back on the topic "organization" later ... jan 20 22:16:45 I'd say we round this topic up and discuss it with mark via mail.. :) jan 20 22:17:03 I will try to discuss with Mark too jan 20 22:17:22 not the topic, but the question about bank-account jan 20 22:17:34 jean, can you cc me and bram please :) jan 20 22:17:37 one problem is that he's probably very busy before FOSDEM jan 20 22:18:28 anyway, yes, defer the bank account decision jan 20 22:18:47 and if you want, start pre-orders when you want ;) jan 20 22:18:55 check.. jan 20 22:19:00 continuing with t-shirts ... jan 20 22:19:12 with info included to wait with payment etc. jan 20 22:19:29 about sale-price ? jan 20 22:20:01 price excluding P+P around 12 €, is that okay? jan 20 22:20:23 imho, 1 price for fair/event, and a lower price for pre-order jan 20 22:20:47 well since ubuntu-fr is going to sell there at fosdem for 12€ we have to follow that.. jan 20 22:21:03 we can discuss with ubuntu-fr ;) jan 20 22:21:04 right jan 20 22:21:10 true.. jan 20 22:21:14 but I think that price is okay jan 20 22:21:19 I leave fosdem in the middle.. jan 20 22:21:28 what will be teh final cost / t-shirt again? jan 20 22:21:30 my suggestion is 15 euros, as we are not linked with ubuntu-fr jan 20 22:22:11 jean7491: I think we should ask ourselves why people would buy ours when those of ubuntu-fr is 3€ less? jan 20 22:22:50 if i have to spend 15€ then i prefer to buy the official ubuntu t-shirt jan 20 22:23:14 official t-shirts cost around 20 € or so ;) jan 20 22:23:34 we only have 100 t-shirts, with special specifications, not to compare with ubuntu-fr jan 20 22:23:55 they cost 12.70€ jan 20 22:24:03 JanC: i like to go to fosdem, but i would like to go as visitor jan 20 22:24:04 and the price is not limited to fosdem, but for all events jan 20 22:24:05 http://shop.canonical.com/index.php?currency=EUR&cPath=14&osCsid=8956eae956612effe3e2147eee16adf5 jan 20 22:24:39 * bbartek est parti (Quit: Ik ga weg) jan 20 22:24:51 massimo21: ex BTW !! jan 20 22:24:58 and without shipping jan 20 22:24:59 incl btw jan 20 22:25:08 i have 2 t-shirt jan 20 22:25:11 indeed.. jan 20 22:25:11 s jan 20 22:25:50 our t-shirts 15€ without shipping then? jan 20 22:26:55 if you are fine with that yes.. jan 20 22:27:17 i think it's to expensive jan 20 22:27:18 massimo21: it's £ 13,02 including VAT, which is way more than 12,70 € jan 20 22:27:48 it is only my personal suggestion: 15 euros, normal price, 13 euros in presale but including port jan 20 22:28:15 massimo21: plus £ 6.42 for shiping jan 20 22:28:29 We could take the fair sales to 14, but if we want to keep some for ourselves I wouldn't make it cheaper.. jan 20 22:28:39 9€ shpping jan 20 22:28:42 * El-Kodar est parti (Quit: Ex-Chat) jan 20 22:28:45 13 for pre + port is ok.. jan 20 22:29:18 13 presale, shipping included jan 20 22:29:25 what about FOSDEM? jan 20 22:29:29 * markvandenborre (~mark@ubuntu/member/markvandenborre) a rejoint #ubuntu-be jan 20 22:29:32 good question.. jan 20 22:29:36 hi jan 20 22:29:44 hey markvandenborre jan 20 22:29:46 hi mark jan 20 22:29:52 JanC, Massimo21 : if you by more t-shirts then the delivery cost per t-shirt is less jan 20 22:29:54 [off topic] Linux just passed bye in de allerslimste mens.. jan 20 22:29:56 jean7491: been working until 21.15... jan 20 22:30:11 hi mark o/ jan 20 22:30:18 jean7491: what was the question? jan 20 22:30:28 hello mark jan 20 22:30:48 first of all, please pay for the t-shirts ASAP ;) jan 20 22:31:24 summary: does people (ordering outside fairs/events) have to pay directly to ubuntu-be (mark) or is it better to have another bank account to collect money before transfer to ubuntu-be jan 20 22:31:45 er, this is an ubuntu-be.org bank account jan 20 22:32:36 markvandenborre: currently you are the only more or less active person who has access to the account jan 20 22:33:05 I would have to look up who is the other person ;) jan 20 22:33:26 Alexandre Laurent, not active since 3 years on ubuntu-be.org jan 20 22:33:29 I think it would be good if a second active person has access too? jan 20 22:33:31 the case: someone orders a t-shirt and has to pay it to ubuntu-be, before receiving the t-shirt: it needs reractions jan 20 22:33:46 you don't need a bank account for that jan 20 22:33:50 and maybe this could be e.g. wouter, as he will take care of the t-shirts? jan 20 22:34:10 he/someone related to him pays for a pile of t-shirts jan 20 22:34:21 to the ubuntu-be.org bank account jan 20 22:34:40 in one batch jan 20 22:34:45 ? jan 20 22:34:57 let's say 10 t-shirts is a manageable batch jan 20 22:35:13 sell packages (either at a discount or not) jan 20 22:35:14 but 1 person ordering 1 t-shirt: does he pay to ubuntu-be directly ? jan 20 22:35:17 woutervddn will handle all the orders (maybe with some help) jan 20 22:35:24 and don't care how it will be resold jan 20 22:35:27 ? jan 20 22:35:34 (that's just a suggestion) jan 20 22:36:10 so somebody will have to be able to get frequent updates of the ubuntu-be account jan 20 22:36:53 I agree with mark that paying for 10 at a time to ubuntu be is a better idea.. I allready suggested that before.. jan 20 22:37:10 we could say the second account buys 10 from ubuntu-be and resells it.. jan 20 22:37:14 how would that work? jan 20 22:37:27 U-be has his money and we get the money back to account no2 jan 20 22:37:31 how do you know what sizes you'll need? jan 20 22:37:46 and how will you explain to the tax office? ;) jan 20 22:38:04 (in case they bother to annoy you) jan 20 22:38:08 JanC: don't worry about that jan 20 22:38:48 well we could take any number aslong as it's bulk order to ubuntu-be it's all settled.. jan 20 22:39:17 markvandenborre: in any case, we need to replace Alexandre, right? jan 20 22:39:22 10 or 37, doesn't matter as long it's been payed for in 1 time.. jan 20 22:39:38 at the other hand, it is not good to mix your personal money with the money for t-shirts jan 20 22:39:39 yes, but that's an entirely different problem jan 20 22:39:44 JanC I agree with the last one but it shouldn't keep the shirt project from a go jan 20 22:39:51 jean7491: it wouldn't be mixed up jan 20 22:40:10 the way I see it whoever is interested buys a batch jan 20 22:40:28 we'd just make the second account on keytradebank but that account just buys the shirts from ubuntu-be jan 20 22:40:29 and whatever this person does with them is not ubuntu-be.org's business anymore jan 20 22:40:39 woutervddn: no jan 20 22:40:48 that doesn't work well IMO jan 20 22:40:48 that's just making things more complex jan 20 22:41:14 not many people want to invest time & money in selling t-shirts... jan 20 22:41:19 why more complex? If i would be the person that handles it I wouldn't do it with my personal account.. jan 20 22:41:37 okay this is how I see it.. jan 20 22:41:53 I buy lets say 35 shirts from ubuntu-be and pay to mark jan 20 22:42:20 why would you "buy" them beforehand? jan 20 22:42:26 I resell those shirts on my own and people pay me on a new account.. jan 20 22:42:32 you pay to ubuntu-be.org.. jan 20 22:42:36 they will be at your home anyway ;) jan 20 22:42:51 because then you won't have an argument to why we shouldn't use a second account :) jan 20 22:42:56 whatever suits you, as long as this second account isn't an ubuntu-be.org account jan 20 22:43:11 it wouldn't be, it would be an account from me and bram.. jan 20 22:43:19 perfect, why not jan 20 22:43:20 totally seperated from ubuntu-be (legally..) jan 20 22:43:37 and anyone else could do the same jan 20 22:43:56 I think it's not a good idea to spread the t-shirts too much jan 20 22:43:57 but you don't nee to buy the t-shirts ! jan 20 22:44:27 and as woutervddn & bram will do all the work, they shouldn't have to finance it either jan 20 22:44:39 idd jan 20 22:44:40 pre-finance jan 20 22:45:10 if that isn't the problem then what the hell is? :s jan 20 22:45:45 either way it's a mess to let people pay directly to ubuntu-be and neither bram or I are going to use our personal account for it.. jan 20 22:46:15 I only say 2 options here.. either pre paid on a second account (either on bram or my name) or post paid jan 20 22:46:21 directly doesn't have to be a mess, but I can't be expected to check this account every day and email ... jan 20 22:46:33 or cash to you, or ... jan 20 22:46:49 I don't really see the problem right here either jan 20 22:47:00 mark.. exactly.. that's why this would make things easier.. jan 20 22:47:10 which is why I propose to give somebody else access to the account too ;) jan 20 22:47:23 JanC: I think we all agree that that is healthy jan 20 22:47:27 (and it takes time) jan 20 22:47:28 yes, but who jan 20 22:47:40 so no short term solution jan 20 22:47:50 when it comes to t-shirt sales jan 20 22:47:55 well we can do this on the long term but not before fosdem.. jan 20 22:48:12 so for the time being I propose a second temporary account for it.. jan 20 22:48:12 but for fosdem it's easy, right? jan 20 22:48:21 we don't need it for FOSDEM jan 20 22:48:32 I will be there and we can have live access to the bank account jan 20 22:48:41 for everyone to see jan 20 22:48:45 (I meant the preorders before fosdem..) jan 20 22:49:11 preorders are not a problem jan 20 22:49:14 fosdem: money has to transfer directly to ubuntu-be ! jan 20 22:49:23 exactly jan 20 22:49:33 if people want to pick up pre-ordered t-shirts at FOSDEM I will need proof of payment indeed jan 20 22:49:33 preorders for collection at fosdem jan 20 22:49:44 you will have that jan 20 22:49:50 so that problem is solved jan 20 22:50:19 the ycan also pay cash @ FOSDEM jan 20 22:50:25 you will have live account access at FOSDEM jan 20 22:51:05 and for people who won't come to fosdem? jan 20 22:51:18 send them with B-Post ;) jan 20 22:51:51 and pay with? jan 20 22:51:52 woutervddn: you do the t-shirts thing right? so I imagine you have found some way to handle physical logistisc jan 20 22:52:02 summary: when a lot t-shirts are saled (like fosdem), payment directly to ubuntu-be, for small orders and preorders, via wouter/bram and a special account jan 20 22:52:05 yes.. jan 20 22:52:17 I vote for that.. jan 20 22:52:34 vote for what ? jan 20 22:52:37 via the fosdem account is also no problem for as far as people can wait for let's say 2 weeks jan 20 22:52:42 for your summary.. jan 20 22:52:42 (worst case) jan 20 22:53:05 heh? jan 20 22:53:13 what would we need fosdem account for? jan 20 22:53:14 the fosdem account ??? jan 20 22:53:44 erf, sorry, confused jan 20 22:53:46 he meant the ubuntu-be account jan 20 22:53:52 yes, of course jan 20 22:54:45 but i suspect 2 weeks delay is too long for some people jan 20 22:55:03 indeed.. jan 20 22:55:39 so until someone willing to check every day has access to the U-be account I'd use the extra account.. aftwards we could just delete that.. :) jan 20 22:55:42 I can schedule some dates, or do this weekly jan 20 22:56:16 let's say for the next 2 months, I check the account once a week? jan 20 22:56:43 that removes a lot of the complexity jan 20 22:57:04 and after that, I presume someone like Jean or Jan will already have jan 20 22:57:16 access to the ubuntu-be.org bank account jan 20 22:57:21 -> problem solved? jan 20 22:57:56 another solution is to give wouter a read only access to ubuntu-be account ? jan 20 22:58:15 but he could get rw access, that's not the problem jan 20 22:58:16 is that possible? jan 20 22:58:18 as you can manage it at the k-bank jan 20 22:58:37 only there's no option to do that before signing paperwork etcetera jan 20 22:58:41 -> takes time jan 20 22:59:37 that's why I suggest a weekly check and me sending out the information to Wouter before more people have access again jan 20 23:00:14 I think people can wait 1 week jan 20 23:00:16 weekly sounds good for me jan 20 23:00:30 right jan 20 23:00:34 it's a volunteer job after all jan 20 23:00:39 exactly jan 20 23:00:53 if they want daily, they can volunteer ;) jan 20 23:01:06 everybody agrees ? jan 20 23:01:18 we do it like that then :) if mark sends the mail to me I'll figure out what has to be sent to bram and which are for me to take care of :) jan 20 23:01:41 ok, thanks ! jan 20 23:01:53 right, so who else for bank account access? jan 20 23:02:02 jean7491: would you like to have it? jan 20 23:02:08 JanC: ? jan 20 23:02:11 anyone else? jan 20 23:02:33 If I could have one it's a lot easier.. only read access is enough.. jan 20 23:02:53 bank-account problem is solved for t-shirts - the other problem is for later ! jan 20 23:03:28 jean7491: later, but as soon as possible jan 20 23:03:53 markvandenborre: IIRC we ahve to pay extra for more than 2, right? jan 20 23:04:13 I don't know exactly, but there was something difficult about having more than two jan 20 23:04:25 might have changed in the mean time jan 20 23:04:42 IIRC you only get 2 bank cards by default or something jan 20 23:04:43 I also asked for anonymous read access, but that was not possible at the time jan 20 23:04:49 yes, something like that jan 20 23:05:03 ok mark, thanks for your help, but i suggest we continue t-shirts item with sale-price ... jan 20 23:05:03 so someone will have to contact Alexandre, for revoking his access jan 20 23:05:05 and probably need it to access the website? jan 20 23:05:30 i suggest we continue t-shirts item with sale-price .. . jan 20 23:05:37 no, it's an RSA id jan 20 23:05:56 markvandenborre: can you make sure the t-shirts are paid ASAP so they are in time for FOSDEm? jan 20 23:06:32 * wouter_vddn (~woutervdd@d54C1A7ED.access.telenet.be) a rejoint #ubuntu-be jan 20 23:06:43 markvandenborre: and maybe ask the bank how to transfer access to the account (what's needed etc.) jan 20 23:06:52 http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=1&sqi=2&ved=0CBsQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.keytradebank.com%2Fpdf%2Fdoccenter%2FdocsOpenAssocNoLegal%2FdocsOpenAssocNoLegalSubscr_nl.pdf&rct=j&q=keytrade%20vereniging&ei=v7E4TdzpCYSSOr6DlI4L&usg=AFQjCNEb2iwdR2IObQp9VzUbOuOQ1u080w&cad=rja jan 20 23:06:58 JanC: I will jan 20 23:07:07 jean7491: sorry to get back to this, but... jan 20 23:07:07 sorry I timed out.. missed anything? jan 20 23:07:29 wouter_vddn: what was the last you saw? jan 20 23:07:36 oops, google doesn't seem to do clean urls anumore jan 20 23:07:45 bank-account problem is solved for t-shirts - the other problem is for later ! jan 20 23:07:53 * woutervddn est parti (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) jan 20 23:08:07 I'll pastebin it jan 20 23:08:28 coming back to my previous suggestion: 15 euros, normal price, 13 euros in presale but including port ? jan 20 23:08:37 http://paste.ubuntu.com/556344/ jan 20 23:09:29 don't we need to be sure how much port & packaging (don't forget!) costs before deciding a final price? jan 20 23:09:42 yes, even before ordering I'd suggest jan 20 23:09:55 but then again... bit late for me to come up with that :) jan 20 23:10:05 thx.. fr the paste jan 20 23:10:42 markvandenborre: this is P&P for sending to people in .be jan 20 23:10:47 port and packaging from the comany to us is settled mark.. jan 20 23:10:55 yes, I know jan 20 23:11:17 for the p&p it's 3.5€ top.. jan 20 23:11:27 port and packing should be between +/- 2.10 and 4 euros jan 20 23:11:43 for 1 t-shirt? jan 20 23:11:43 so with that in mind we can determine the price.. jan 20 23:11:48 4 or 3.5 jan 20 23:12:02 janC yes for 1 shirt.. jan 20 23:12:07 8.56+4=12.5 jan 20 23:12:15 and less for more I guess jan 20 23:12:33 so at zero profit, you need 12.5€/t-shirt to break even jan 20 23:12:35 yes.. jan 20 23:12:46 mark.. it's not 8.56 for a shirt.. jan 20 23:12:55 ah, numbers changed? jan 20 23:12:59 yes.. jan 20 23:13:16 what's total cost / 100 ? jan 20 23:13:48 8,0623 jan 20 23:13:56 right jan 20 23:14:03 so let's take 8,07 to count with :) jan 20 23:14:23 +/- 12 € jan 20 23:14:49 indeed.. So we're at least break even for the pre orders.. :) jan 20 23:15:21 so, 13 € / t-shirt pre-orders, 15 € / t-shirt later orders sounds okay jan 20 23:15:27 ...or jan 20 23:15:29 ... jan 20 23:15:39 and for FOSDEM etc. I can sell them at 12 or 13 € ? jan 20 23:15:54 at 10 is ok, logistics are zero there jan 20 23:16:02 same for batches... jan 20 23:16:06 it's the postage jan 20 23:16:10 that does it jan 20 23:16:17 9.99€ :) jan 20 23:16:28 mark.. we are looking for a little more benefit for U-be I think.. jan 20 23:16:30 minimum contribution = 9.99€ jan 20 23:16:34 markvandenborre: ubuntu-fr will bring some t-shirts at 12 € to FOSDEM too jan 20 23:16:51 (btw, I managed to get a blouse of my girlfriend inside the 3.50 package..) jan 20 23:16:54 wouter_vddn: no, if this was about profit, we would have done something else jan 20 23:17:11 we mostly want to avoid a loss first jan 20 23:17:24 I remember reading something else.. jan 20 23:17:27 and get some visiblity for ubuntu jan 20 23:17:29 there is always some loss with leftovers anyway ;) jan 20 23:17:33 or did I misunderstand that? jan 20 23:17:38 s/always/often/ jan 20 23:18:20 fosdem price, if lower, should not be below 12 euros jan 20 23:18:25 (I'm sorry if I overlooked things, but I thought that was the primary goal of the t-shirts) jan 20 23:19:02 markvandenborre: making a small profit is better than making a loss, but it's not like we don't have money... jan 20 23:19:07 it all depends on goals: if it's profitability, I'd rather say scrap the project jan 20 23:19:30 (nasty as that may sound, and ungrateful after all the effort spent) jan 20 23:19:56 if it's extra visiblity at low or zero cost, it all becomes different jan 20 23:20:05 just like pricing jan 20 23:20:33 the main reason to ask 12 € at FOSDEM is to equalize prices jan 20 23:20:35 mark.. I think the goal was to get our name out but with this creating changes for U-be to do more.. jan 20 23:21:09 and if we make some profit, we can always use it to give away t-shirts etc. ;) jan 20 23:21:10 and getting some extra money to acquire material for promotion jan 20 23:21:18 the money we get from it would fully go back in the U-be system enabling us to do more things.. jan 20 23:21:25 we are all volunteers to promote ubuntu and not to make money of it. that's my opinion jan 20 23:21:42 agree too jan 20 23:21:49 clamam, it's not like we are out to money for ourselves.. jan 20 23:21:59 for the moment there's zero profit, and an 800€ cost jan 20 23:22:14 idd jan 20 23:22:21 if you want to minimise that side of the equation, you want to get rid of a pile in the beginning jan 20 23:22:27 to get closer to break even asap jan 20 23:23:05 we could say we keep a few for fairs for example jan 20 23:23:35 i heve to go now jan 20 23:23:42 good night people jan 20 23:23:42 Wouter: for me breakeven sounds good to me jan 20 23:23:42 no problemo, see you! jan 20 23:24:12 * massimo21 (~massimo21@91.176.27.75) a quitté #ubuntu-be jan 20 23:24:42 a little profit is good, but we don't have ove do it jan 20 23:24:46 summary: 15 euros in events, 13 euros in preorder (incl port) and 12 euro in fosdem ? jan 20 23:25:12 and 15 € when ordered later? jan 20 23:25:20 or more? jan 20 23:25:29 + port jan 20 23:25:50 = +/- 18.5 jan 20 23:25:52 I say look at the worst case scenario jan 20 23:26:03 mark, and that is? jan 20 23:26:07 that we want to avoid jan 20 23:26:21 and look at the optimal scenario that we would love to see jan 20 23:26:24 financially spoken jan 20 23:26:30 I like the prices that jean gave.. jan 20 23:26:36 and look at it from there also jan 20 23:26:58 we can allways lower the price later on.. jan 20 23:27:25 the fair price might be 14 instead of 15 but other prices are good as they are (in my opinion) jan 20 23:27:29 how many do we want to keep for ubuntu-be.org fairs? jan 20 23:27:34 wouter_vddn: next year during the "solden" ? :P jan 20 23:27:42 :p for instance :p jan 20 23:27:51 mark.. doesn't matter.. the more that are out the better.. jan 20 23:27:58 if it's a succes we can make new once.. jan 20 23:28:05 if everything is gone, we can order new t-shirts jan 20 23:28:15 depending on the speed people buy them we can change the amount we order (and the design..) jan 20 23:28:26 ...and if only 10 are gone, there's 90 sitting in a box jan 20 23:28:40 indeed.. jan 20 23:28:43 (I'm not saying that is going to happen) jan 20 23:28:47 who disagree with : 15 euros in events, 13 euros in preorder (incl port) and 12 euro in fosdem ? jan 20 23:28:54 I'm sure that's not going to happen ;) jan 20 23:29:05 it's good for me Jean7491 jan 20 23:29:07 jean7491: I agree jan 20 23:29:17 but if it does we've learned out of that and we could give them away.. jan 20 23:29:22 * markvandenborre would rather see a lower price, but I certainly won't disagree, I'm not involved enough jan 20 23:29:25 I agree also jan 20 23:29:50 mark.. if this is a succes we can order more and lower the price.. jan 20 23:29:53 markvandenborre: it's rather low already, considering we have organic/fair trade t-shirts jan 20 23:30:04 ^true that.. jan 20 23:30:26 we have to bye 100, or else the project is stuck and it took a long time to get to this point jan 20 23:30:47 wouter : next about t-shirts ? jan 20 23:30:57 finally we can offer more then only our know how and cd's ad fairs jan 20 23:31:25 sorry jean but I had my shirt portion for today :p jan 20 23:31:34 not really anything to say about it now :p jan 20 23:31:38 if no other comment, design and presale should be added as soon as possible in the facebook-ubuntu-be and identi.ca !ubuntube ... jan 20 23:32:15 ok, i will do that for Facebook jan 20 23:32:18 for that, we need a copy of the final design you sent with the order jan 20 23:32:20 (and maybe all at the same time with the new plugin if we're lucky ;) ) jan 20 23:32:38 ok.. jan 20 23:32:48 I'll post it on the ml as soon as the pre order page is created.. jan 20 23:32:57 wouter: that would be nice jan 20 23:33:31 but i propose to wait the go from wouter, or at least to coordinate with him before publication in facebook or other places jan 20 23:33:46 have to go, working tomorrow morning jan 20 23:33:49 of course jan 20 23:33:55 ok jan 20 23:34:01 thanks mark ! jan 20 23:34:04 markvandenborre: slaapwel ☺ jan 20 23:34:08 my pleasure jan 20 23:34:14 goodnight mark jan 20 23:34:22 * markvandenborre has to get up at 7 tomorrow... jan 20 23:34:36 slaap wel ;) jan 20 23:34:39 * markvandenborre (~mark@ubuntu/member/markvandenborre) a quitté #ubuntu-be jan 20 23:35:00 clamam.. a teaser might be thrown on Facebook maybe.. xD jan 20 23:35:31 last word about t-shirts wiki page https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BelgianTeam/PromotionMaterial will have to be updated jan 20 23:35:32 great idea wouter jan 20 23:36:03 i propose we leave the t-shirts to item #2 promotion material for fairs/events : a few ideas ... jan 20 23:36:32 JanC: do you have stickers “Powered by Ubuntu” to add in event-boxes gent, antwerp, mechelen, hasselt? jan 20 23:37:07 we have a set of wallpapers for the pc's and laptops used on the fairs jan 20 23:37:21 Massimo21 has made them http://www.facebook.com/#!/group.php?gid=87950312093 jan 20 23:37:31 I'll update.. jan 20 23:37:54 they look nice on our pc's jan 20 23:38:01 jean7491: I have some stickers left, and I will be ordering new ones jan 20 23:38:20 they do look nice jan 20 23:38:28 we can use them to make custom iso's jan 20 23:38:28 for example to be added to cd's you send in the future jan 20 23:38:46 but as a member of ubuntu-artwork I have to say they are not conform with the branding guides (not that I care about it, I love them ;) ) jan 20 23:39:12 the CD's and the education is the next project I want to put my wings on jan 20 23:39:12 i know but this looks great jan 20 23:39:17 *under jan 20 23:39:23 please put wallpapers on the wiki also ;) jan 20 23:39:30 clamam: I agree :p but people would kill me otherwize :p jan 20 23:39:40 * JanC can't see them on facebook jan 20 23:39:57 i will ask massimo on sunday @ the fair in Hasselt jan 20 23:40:19 clamam, can you upload them to spreadubuntu.org? jan 20 23:40:48 JanC: http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=87950312093&v=photos jan 20 23:41:35 you can place the backgrounds in wiki ttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/BelgianTeam/PromotionMaterial jan 20 23:41:40 i will try that, but massimo is the designer and i am going to ask him jan 20 23:41:50 ok jan 20 23:41:58 we can't use them in a remix because of the branding guidelines jan 20 23:42:20 but if people want to put them on their own desktop... jan 20 23:42:31 janC.. we can add them.. jan 20 23:42:51 wouter_vddn: if we want to call it "Ubuntu" we can't ;) jan 20 23:42:58 we just can't put them as a default (and even that we can.. just not in the default that we present to canonical) jan 20 23:43:19 yes we can janc.. if it's not the default we can ship anything with it.. jan 20 23:43:23 not showing doesn't make it legal ;) jan 20 23:44:14 jan.. I read the guidelines 2 and a half times for the flyer proposal and I made wallpapers for edubuntu, xubuntu and lubuntu.. jan 20 23:44:15 sorry, i continue with promotion ideas ... jan 20 23:44:24 trust me.. we can.. jan 20 23:44:43 wouter translated the (dodecahedron) ubuntu-calendar 2011 in dutch: see http://spreadubuntu.org/node/612 , nice goodie, to be printed on 160 gr. Paper, but not easy to realize the construction, but I succeeded jan 20 23:45:17 xD cutting guides are in the svg when you open it in inkscape.. :p jan 20 23:45:41 ( left of the printable area.. you can't see it in fotoviewer..) jan 20 23:46:25 ok, thanks wouter, another idea ... jan 20 23:46:32 anyways.. I love the calendars and I'm going to make a white version for printing.. jan 20 23:46:57 * pep` est parti (Quit: so long and thanks for all the fish) jan 20 23:47:14 i printed it in colour with inkjet, without problem jan 20 23:47:31 next : about the flyers ubuntu-be a6 (2009): as i expect that our stock will out/empty in june 2011, I called for new ideas/designs jan 20 23:47:31 a new wiki page is available: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BelgianTeam/PromotionMaterial/ProposalsFlyers2011 jan 20 23:47:31 please add your proposals/comments in the mailing list and in the wiki jan 20 23:49:30 for a short(!) meeting : other questions/comments ? next irc meeting ? on thursday 27/01/2011 at 21 h. jan 20 23:49:39 LOL4 jan 20 23:49:46 I'll be there.. jan 20 23:49:55 ok jan 20 23:50:48 ok, end of meeting - thanks to all for your participation, have a good night ! jan 20 23:50:54 is there a way to set a meeting for all of us to meet each other and for a drink? jan 20 23:51:15 clamam: ofcourse, would be a good idea jan 20 23:51:30 preferably somewhere "central" jan 20 23:51:32 YES! we discussed this in leuven.. jan 20 23:51:43 can we put it in the agenda for a next meeting jan 20 23:51:45 we have done that before jan 20 23:51:49 it's a good idea to meet with people that won't go to a dipro beurs otherwize.. jan 20 23:52:29 clamam: the agenda is a wiki ;) jan 20 23:52:38 btw.. last question.. no one of you guys happens to have an old A4 plotter lying around on the attic? jan 20 23:52:50 I don't jan 20 23:52:51 good idea, i agree, just launch propositions jan 20 23:53:01 no plotter jan 20 23:53:15 no plotter jan 20 23:53:53 damn.. :( I'd want to make a laser cutter but designing the x-y system is like 100 times the amount of work to make the laser setup :p jan 20 23:54:35 wouter_vddn: build it with lego technics? ;) jan 20 23:55:06 thanks for your participation, and perhaps we will succeed with an irl meeting (!) -- bye