Ubuntu Wiki

   1 jan 20 21:04:12 <jean7491>	hi to all, who is here for the meeting ?
   2 jan 20 21:04:22 <massimo21>	:-)
   3 jan 20 21:04:38 <woutervddn>	I am
   4 jan 20 21:05:21 <clamam>	Hello
   5 jan 20 21:06:08 <jean7491>	hi massimo21  woutervddn  Clamam !
   6 jan 20 21:07:19 <jean7491>	25 people in the channel : anyone else for the meeting ?
   7 jan 20 21:07:57 <woutervddn>	I think JanC is here for the meeting as well..
   8 jan 20 21:08:06 <JanC>	right
   9 jan 20 21:08:22 <jean7491>	hi JanC
  10 jan 20 21:08:25 <JanC>	although, preferably a not-too-long meeting  ;)
  11 jan 20 21:09:01 <jean7491>	i'm not the one who writes for a long meeting !
  12 jan 20 21:09:23 <woutervddn>	lol
  13 jan 20 21:09:56 <woutervddn>	we'd better start quick then :p
  14 jan 20 21:10:13 <jean7491>	i understand 5 active people in the channel, and 20 "listening" !
  15 jan 20 21:10:52 <jean7491>	last call for participants to the meeting before we start !
  16 jan 20 21:11:09 <woutervddn>	isn't there a way to send a message to all of them..
  17 jan 20 21:11:37 <jean7491>	a pm ?
  18 jan 20 21:12:04 <JanC>	most people are probably just idleing
  19 jan 20 21:12:19 <woutervddn>	no there's this command that gives the same result as when a name is specified.. there is even an option to autokick those not responding within a certain time..
  20 jan 20 21:12:40 <jean7491>	no idea about what to do, let's start ...
  21 jan 20 21:12:42 <JanC>	woutervddn: that sounds like some bot/script
  22 jan 20 21:12:59 <jean7491>	as announced, we start today first with wiki and website ...
  23 jan 20 21:13:05 <jean7491>	unforttunatly, mongolito404 will not be present ...
  24 jan 20 21:13:17 <jean7491>	topic # 3. Update Wiki : are there suggestions or comments ?
  25 jan 20 21:13:37 *	padv est parti (Remote host closed the connection)
  26 jan 20 21:13:58 <JanC>	I am not going to work on it before FOSDEM  ;)
  27 jan 20 21:14:29 <jean7491>	if no comment, topic# 4. Update web-site ...
  28 jan 20 21:14:42 <jean7491>	mongolito404 informed us : “a) I fixed the Planet, this is worth mentioning b) tomorrow, I plan to deploy a test site for Activity Stream (as a way to include "social" stuffs on Ubuntu-be.org as suggested by woutervddn). c) Nothing ne for the map (;() “
  29 jan 20 21:15:12 <jean7491>	i've no input on this matter, comments ?
  30 jan 20 21:15:30 <JanC>	only comment: thanks to mongolito404   ☺
  31 jan 20 21:15:45 <woutervddn>	Well I'm investigating the ubuntu-be blogroll.. :)
  32 jan 20 21:15:48 <JanC>	and thanks to woutervddn for complaining/asking  ;)
  33 jan 20 21:16:05 <woutervddn>	(also thx from me to mongolito404)
  34 jan 20 21:16:10 <woutervddn>	and to jan xD
  35 jan 20 21:16:35 <woutervddn>	anyways.. the social script and the blogroll should make the website more dynamical..
  36 jan 20 21:16:42 <woutervddn>	so people will come back to check it again :)
  37 jan 20 21:16:57 <JanC>	right
  38 jan 20 21:17:41 <jean7491>	other comment ?
  39 jan 20 21:17:55 <woutervddn>	not atm I think..
  40 jan 20 21:18:29 <jean7491>	we continue with topic #1.  Events - januari – februari 2011
  41 jan 20 21:18:37 <jean7491>	 item #1   dipro computer fair leuven 16/01/2011, -report
  42 jan 20 21:18:47 <jean7491>	afaik our booth was ok, not too much visitors, thanks to our volunteers in leuven !
  43 jan 20 21:18:59 <jean7491>	see booth report   https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BelgianTeam/ComputerFairs/Leuven_2011-01-16
  44 jan 20 21:19:19 <jean7491>	comment about dipro leuven ?
  45 jan 20 21:20:04 <jean7491>	item #2 dipro computer fair hasselt 23/01/2011:  already ok – comment massimo21 or clamam
  46 jan 20 21:20:21 <massimo21>	everthing is ready
  47 jan 20 21:20:31 <jean7491>	ok
  48 jan 20 21:20:37 <massimo21>	ok ;-)
  49 jan 20 21:20:49 <jean7491>	thanks
  50 jan 20 21:20:55 <jean7491>	item #3 dipro computer fair ghent 30/01/2011 ...
  51 jan 20 21:21:04 <jean7491>	3 volunteers are registred in the wiki, but we need 3 additional people: …
  52 jan 20 21:21:06 <woutervddn>	about leuven, the corridors where way to small.. you couldn't interact with you computer and the visitors at the same time..
  53 jan 20 21:21:39 <jean7491>	about leuven, yes, same problem when not enough place !
  54 jan 20 21:21:48 <clamam>	thanks massimo21 for giving the info, i was away for 5 minutes, my son was crying
  55 jan 20 21:21:58 <JanC>	I will maybe go to Ghent, but prefer to see other people...   ;)
  56 jan 20 21:22:00 <massimo21>	:-)
  57 jan 20 21:22:25 <jean7491>	thanks Clamam, ok JanC
  58 jan 20 21:23:04 <jean7491>	other volunteers (from ghent area), please add your names in the wiki ...
  59 jan 20 21:23:09 <jean7491>	https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BelgianTeam/ComputerFairs/Ghent_2011-01-30
  60 jan 20 21:23:36 <jean7491>	next event : item #4  Dipro fair Kortrijk (06/02) : … 
  61 jan 20 21:23:42 <jean7491>	we need a local teamr - volunteers, please add your names in the wiki 
  62 jan 20 21:24:04 <jean7491>	https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BelgianTeam/ComputerFairs/Kortrijk_2011-02-06
  63 jan 20 21:24:16 <JanC>	Kortrijk is during FOSDEM, so I won't be there...
  64 jan 20 21:24:18 <jean7491>	item #5 fosdem 05-06/02/2011 – Brussels : JanC ?...
  65 jan 20 21:24:42 <JanC>	yanu: do you go to FOSDEM or can you help with the FOSDEM fair?
  66 jan 20 21:24:56 <JanC>	help with the Dipro fair
  67 jan 20 21:25:35 <JanC>	we will get some help & stuff from ubuntu-fr for FOSDEM
  68 jan 20 21:25:36 <jean7491>	yanu is likely sleeping !
  69 jan 20 21:26:01 <JanC>	sleeping?
  70 jan 20 21:26:40 <jean7491>	not wake
  71 jan 20 21:27:11 <jean7491>	have you other info about fosdem ?
  72 jan 20 21:27:17 <JanC>	I was just wondering why  ☺
  73 jan 20 21:28:06 <JanC>	about FOSDEM: I've been thinking about using some of the equipment of the Ghent fair box
  74 jan 20 21:28:51 <woutervddn>	Ow about every new fair in the future: if you have a telenet member in your team check out for hotspot..
  75 jan 20 21:29:10 <woutervddn>	they are all free now.. (we had someone doing the same in leuven..)
  76 jan 20 21:29:12 <JanC>	it includes a big screen and at least 2 good laptops that people don't need for other things
  77 jan 20 21:30:38 <jean7491>	for fosdem, you have the new banner and table cloth
  78 jan 20 21:30:40 <JanC>	I plan to bring more info about FOSDEM during the comming weeks
  79 jan 20 21:30:50 <JanC>	yes, plus table cloth from ubuntu-fr
  80 jan 20 21:31:09 <JanC>	as we go 2 tables, we'll need it
  81 jan 20 21:31:16 <JanC>	s/go/got/
  82 jan 20 21:31:30 <jean7491>	ok, btw, don't forget to add an after action report in the wiki belgian team
  83 jan 20 21:31:39 <JanC>	right  ;)
  84 jan 20 21:31:48 <jean7491>	with pics 
  85 jan 20 21:32:07 <jean7491>	anything else ?
  86 jan 20 21:32:07 <JanC>	if somebody brings a camera, sure
  87 jan 20 21:32:27 <jean7491>	other comment ?
  88 jan 20 21:32:40 <JanC>	no, more about FOSDEM follows later
  89 jan 20 21:32:47 <jean7491>	ok
  90 jan 20 21:32:53 <jean7491>	item #6 digital week 2011, (28/02-05/03/2011)
  91 jan 20 21:33:01 <jean7491>	who has new information about the digital week ?
  92 jan 20 21:33:07 <jean7491>	already scheduled on 03/03/2011: presentation (2 sessions) of Ubuntu in the public library - Ostend
  93 jan 20 21:34:06 <jean7491>	it's a pity that ubuntu-be is not more present in this event !
  94 jan 20 21:34:45 <woutervddn>	I'm still working on my idea, but I need to find a partner school who's willing to do the same..
  95 jan 20 21:35:05 <woutervddn>	(and to convince some extra people at my school..)
  96 jan 20 21:35:09 <JanC>	woutervddn: school, library, ...
  97 jan 20 21:35:46 <jean7491>	... as the major actor (linc vzw) support foss in the website and publications
  98 jan 20 21:35:48 <woutervddn>	library might work to.. I'll try it :)
  99 jan 20 21:37:46 <jean7491>	for people who are curious, look at http://www.linc-vzw.be/ and vsng.be 
 100 jan 20 21:38:03 <jean7491>	next topic # 2. Promotion
 101 jan 20 21:38:11 <jean7491>	item #1 t-shirts for Ubuntu-be :
 102 jan 20 21:38:17 <jean7491>	update by wouter and bram ?
 103 jan 20 21:38:39 <woutervddn>	The shirts are ordered, printing will begin when mark has transfered the money..
 104 jan 20 21:39:17 <woutervddn>	as you all know version V4 was chosen. We're working on a way to allow readers of the ML to pre-order the shirts at a special price.
 105 jan 20 21:40:08 <woutervddn>	JanC suggested to just use the ubuntu-be bank account for that
 106 jan 20 21:40:27 <woutervddn>	jean7491 talked about opening a seperate account for it..
 107 jan 20 21:40:43 <woutervddn>	I don't really mind which one is chosen..
 108 jan 20 21:40:49 <woutervddn>	your thoughts?
 109 jan 20 21:41:34 <massimo21>	how wil the t-shirt be advertised and selled?
 110 jan 20 21:41:49 <jean7491>	aim is not mixing private account with ubuntu matter, ... using the actual ubuntu-be account is difficult, only mark has access
 111 jan 20 21:42:15 <JanC>	we can change the people who have access...
 112 jan 20 21:42:40 <jean7491>	for this reason, i propose a new ad-hoc bank-account
 113 jan 20 21:43:00 <woutervddn>	massimo21: working on that also.. I guess we'll make a survey for it, people should then toggle there size and put in there address and name. We can then pull it down in a spreadsheet.. :)
 114 jan 20 21:43:02 <JanC>	jean7491: such a bank account would be a personal account too...
 115 jan 20 21:43:45 <jean7491>	idd, but just to collect money from t-shirts to be tranferred to mark ...
 116 jan 20 21:44:11 <JanC>	I think we need to discuss this more with Mark (and on the ML maybe)
 117 jan 20 21:44:54 <jean7491>	this will be a private account, but we can add ubuntu in the name and open it to the 2 people from the t-shirt team ...
 118 jan 20 21:45:11 <woutervddn>	I don't really care where the money is going to in the first place. Most important thing is that it gets to the ubuntu-be account sooner or later..
 119 jan 20 21:45:52 <JanC>	as I said before the meeting, lets defer this until after FOSDEm?
 120 jan 20 21:45:57 <jean7491>	of course, we can discuss it with mark, ... but not in the mailing list as this is a loco team only matter ...
 121 jan 20 21:46:15 <JanC>	before FOSDEM, the t-shirts won't be available anyway
 122 jan 20 21:46:22 <woutervddn>	@jean7491 & JanC I agree that we don't benefit from having 2 accounts all the time, but keytrade enables us to close the account without costs..
 123 jan 20 21:47:15 <jean7491>	no we can not defer a decision after fosdem as we need to launch a presale asap
 124 jan 20 21:48:03 <JanC>	why do we need that?
 125 jan 20 21:48:04 <woutervddn>	Fosdam is more then 10 days away so we have time to discuss it for a few more days.. but things should be settled quite fast :)
 126 jan 20 21:48:30 <woutervddn>	JanC to get a 'special' offer to the people on the ML :)
 127 jan 20 21:48:44 <JanC>	is there a reason why we want that?  ;)
 128 jan 20 21:48:51 <woutervddn>	so they are able to have something before anyone else can..
 129 jan 20 21:49:09 <jean7491>	as we start with, it is not limited to fosdem ...
 130 jan 20 21:49:11 <JanC>	people at FOSDEM will be the first
 131 jan 20 21:49:37 <JanC>	no way I'm going to ship t-shirts before FOSDEM
 132 jan 20 21:49:46 <woutervddn>	lol you don't need to :p
 133 jan 20 21:49:56 <JanC>	well, then what's the point?
 134 jan 20 21:50:01 <jean7491>	perhaps receiving the t-shirts, but other people could order before fosdem !
 135 jan 20 21:50:17 <woutervddn>	the ordering will be before fosdem, the payment until fosdem and the shipment the day after..
 136 jan 20 21:50:28 <jean7491>	presale = before t-shirts arrive
 137 jan 20 21:50:39 <woutervddn>	if we wait until after fosdem to start it all up it means we're 3 weeks later before shipment can start..
 138 jan 20 21:50:47 <JanC>	so?
 139 jan 20 21:51:21 <jean7491>	we should start presale tomorrow ...
 140 jan 20 21:51:49 <jean7491>	as only a preorder with not yet payment
 141 jan 20 21:51:52 <JanC>	thats' only possible when using the ubuntu-be account, right?
 142 jan 20 21:52:48 <jean7491>	preorder does not need prepayment, but well the will to buy it ... 
 143 jan 20 21:53:03 <JanC>	hm
 144 jan 20 21:53:30 <JanC>	I still don't see the benefit of that
 145 jan 20 21:53:41 <jean7491>	if 20 preorders, i'll be happy, and perhaps a few will not be finalized ...
 146 jan 20 21:53:53 <JanC>	but if you want, okay  ;)
 147 jan 20 21:54:10 *	mongolito404 est parti (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 148 jan 20 21:54:15 <woutervddn>	massimo21, clamam, what do you guys think?
 149 jan 20 21:54:45 <massimo21>	agree with jean
 150 jan 20 21:55:18 <clamam>	we have to do something, i agree with jean
 151 jan 20 21:55:34 <jean7491>	1. is promotion inside ubuntu-be, 2. we are pretty sure about people who will preorder, 3. we have nothing to lose, no t-shirt without payment
 152 jan 20 21:55:36 <JanC>	in any case, I would prefer the bank account question to get more thought though
 153 jan 20 21:56:03 <woutervddn>	janC why exactly is that?
 154 jan 20 21:57:06 <massimo21>	how much will a t-shirt cost?
 155 jan 20 21:57:34 <JanC>	well, I'd prefer the official account to be used, but that will require time
 156 jan 20 21:58:31 <jean7491>	as far as i remember, one day mark said he was not happy with a possibility like that
 157 jan 20 21:58:58 <jean7491>	= a lot of movements on the account
 158 jan 20 21:59:04 <JanC>	(using the official account also means it's less likely you get in trouble with the tax office)
 159 jan 20 21:59:29 <woutervddn>	massimo21: 3.5€ top..
 160 jan 20 21:59:42 <woutervddn>	I'm looking in to a cheaper method..
 161 jan 20 22:00:06 <massimo21>	i ment how much will we sale it?
 162 jan 20 22:00:07 <JanC>	jean7491: it's always possible to add more/other people to manage the ubuntu-be account
 163 jan 20 22:00:37 <clamam>	i said it a couple of times, but why not paypal. sorry to bring it up again. i use it many times.
 164 jan 20 22:00:41 <woutervddn>	massimo21 probably 13 to 14 euro's with shipment..
 165 jan 20 22:01:19 <jean7491>	for the problem tax office : for this reason i asked a clear bank-account only for t-shirt, not mixed with personal matter
 166 jan 20 22:01:26 <woutervddn>	clamam: paypal takes a part of the costs for its own :)
 167 jan 20 22:02:04 <clamam>	how much?
 168 jan 20 22:02:21 <JanC>	sometimes 100%, as I explained last time  ;)
 169 jan 20 22:02:54 <jean7491>	of course we can discuss with mark on this issue, ...
 170 jan 20 22:03:09 <clamam>	i disagree with JanC
 171 jan 20 22:03:10 <woutervddn>	I'll ask mark about it.. :)
 172 jan 20 22:03:14 <JanC>	IMO we *do* have a bank account, so we should use it
 173 jan 20 22:03:53 <JanC>	but it might take some time to get other people access to the account
 174 jan 20 22:04:21 <JanC>	including going to the bank together with Mark...
 175 jan 20 22:06:03 <jean7491>	not sure by keytrade bank !
 176 jan 20 22:08:21 <JanC>	going to the bank is a requirement for "feitelijke verenigingen"
 177 jan 20 22:08:51 <JanC>	which is probably why Keytrade doesn't allow it (the have no local offices I think?)
 178 jan 20 22:09:32 <woutervddn>	yes they have.. but only 1 in brussels..
 179 jan 20 22:09:41 <woutervddn>	and our other account is also at keytrade bank..
 180 jan 20 22:11:09 <JanC>	well, not allow it on their web site at least?
 181 jan 20 22:12:18 <jean7491>	summary: does people (ordering outside fairs/events) have to pay directly to ubuntu-be (mark) or is it better to have another bank account to collect money before transfer to mark ?
 182 jan 20 22:12:57 <JanC>	ubuntu-be is not mark, he just happens to be the only active person that happens to have access to the bank account
 183 jan 20 22:13:13 <JanC>	I'd say it's at least as important to fix that problem  ;)
 184 jan 20 22:16:09 <jean7491>	we can not fix the problem "who is ubuntu-be?" ! but it is not the question we have to answer to progress with the t-shirts, ... we will have to come back on the topic "organization" later ...
 185 jan 20 22:16:45 <woutervddn>	I'd say we round this topic up and discuss it with mark via mail.. :)
 186 jan 20 22:17:03 <JanC>	I will try to discuss with Mark too
 187 jan 20 22:17:22 <jean7491>	not the topic, but the question about bank-account
 188 jan 20 22:17:34 <woutervddn>	jean, can you cc me and bram please :)
 189 jan 20 22:17:37 <JanC>	one problem is that he's probably very busy before FOSDEM
 190 jan 20 22:18:28 <JanC>	anyway, yes, defer the bank account decision
 191 jan 20 22:18:47 <JanC>	and if you want, start pre-orders when you want  ;)
 192 jan 20 22:18:55 <woutervddn>	check..
 193 jan 20 22:19:00 <jean7491>	continuing with t-shirts ...
 194 jan 20 22:19:12 <JanC>	with info included to wait with payment etc.
 195 jan 20 22:19:29 <jean7491>	about sale-price ?
 196 jan 20 22:20:01 <JanC>	price excluding P+P around 12 €, is that okay?
 197 jan 20 22:20:23 <jean7491>	imho, 1 price for fair/event, and a lower price for pre-order
 198 jan 20 22:20:47 <woutervddn>	well since ubuntu-fr is going to sell there at fosdem for 12€ we have to follow that..
 199 jan 20 22:21:03 <JanC>	we can discuss with ubuntu-fr  ;)
 200 jan 20 22:21:04 <massimo21>	right
 201 jan 20 22:21:10 <woutervddn>	true..
 202 jan 20 22:21:14 <JanC>	but I think that price is okay
 203 jan 20 22:21:19 <woutervddn>	I leave fosdem in the middle..
 204 jan 20 22:21:28 <JanC>	what will be teh final cost / t-shirt again?
 205 jan 20 22:21:30 <jean7491>	my suggestion is 15 euros, as we are not linked with ubuntu-fr
 206 jan 20 22:22:11 <woutervddn>	jean7491: I think we should ask ourselves why people would buy ours when those of ubuntu-fr is 3€ less?
 207 jan 20 22:22:50 <massimo21>	if i have to spend 15€ then i prefer to buy the official ubuntu t-shirt
 208 jan 20 22:23:14 <JanC>	official t-shirts cost around 20 € or so  ;)
 209 jan 20 22:23:34 <jean7491>	we only have 100 t-shirts, with special specifications, not to compare with ubuntu-fr
 210 jan 20 22:23:55 <massimo21>	they cost 12.70€
 211 jan 20 22:24:03 <yanu>	JanC: i like to go to fosdem, but i would like to go as visitor
 212 jan 20 22:24:04 <jean7491>	and the price is not limited to fosdem, but for all events
 213 jan 20 22:24:05 <massimo21>	http://shop.canonical.com/index.php?currency=EUR&cPath=14&osCsid=8956eae956612effe3e2147eee16adf5
 214 jan 20 22:24:39 *	bbartek est parti (Quit: Ik ga weg)
 215 jan 20 22:24:51 <JanC>	massimo21: ex BTW !!
 216 jan 20 22:24:58 <JanC>	and without shipping
 217 jan 20 22:24:59 <massimo21>	incl btw
 218 jan 20 22:25:08 <massimo21>	i have 2 t-shirt
 219 jan 20 22:25:11 <woutervddn>	indeed..
 220 jan 20 22:25:11 <massimo21>	s
 221 jan 20 22:25:50 <massimo21>	our t-shirts 15€ without shipping then?
 222 jan 20 22:26:55 <woutervddn>	if you are fine with that yes..
 223 jan 20 22:27:17 <massimo21>	i think it's to expensive
 224 jan 20 22:27:18 <JanC>	massimo21: it's £ 13,02 including VAT, which is way more than 12,70 €
 225 jan 20 22:27:48 <jean7491>	it is only my personal suggestion: 15 euros, normal price, 13 euros in presale but including port
 226 jan 20 22:28:15 <JanC>	massimo21: plus £ 6.42 for shiping
 227 jan 20 22:28:29 <woutervddn>	We could take the fair sales to 14, but if we want to keep some for ourselves I wouldn't make it cheaper..
 228 jan 20 22:28:39 <massimo21>	9€ shpping
 229 jan 20 22:28:42 *	El-Kodar est parti (Quit: Ex-Chat)
 230 jan 20 22:28:45 <woutervddn>	13 for pre + port is ok..
 231 jan 20 22:29:18 <jean7491>	13 presale, shipping included
 232 jan 20 22:29:25 <JanC>	what about FOSDEM?
 233 jan 20 22:29:29 *	markvandenborre (~mark@ubuntu/member/markvandenborre) a rejoint #ubuntu-be
 234 jan 20 22:29:32 <woutervddn>	good question..
 235 jan 20 22:29:36 <markvandenborre>	hi
 236 jan 20 22:29:44 <JanC>	hey markvandenborre
 237 jan 20 22:29:46 <jean7491>	hi mark
 238 jan 20 22:29:52 <clamam>	JanC, Massimo21 : if you by more t-shirts then the delivery cost per t-shirt is less
 239 jan 20 22:29:54 <woutervddn>	[off topic] Linux just passed bye in de allerslimste mens..
 240 jan 20 22:29:56 <markvandenborre>	jean7491: been working until 21.15...
 241 jan 20 22:30:11 <woutervddn>	hi mark o/
 242 jan 20 22:30:18 <markvandenborre>	jean7491: what was the question?
 243 jan 20 22:30:28 <clamam>	hello mark
 244 jan 20 22:30:48 <JanC>	first of all, please pay for the t-shirts ASAP  ;)
 245 jan 20 22:31:24 <jean7491>	summary: does people (ordering outside fairs/events) have to pay directly to ubuntu-be (mark) or is it better to have another bank account to collect money before transfer to ubuntu-be
 246 jan 20 22:31:45 <markvandenborre>	er, this is an ubuntu-be.org bank account
 247 jan 20 22:32:36 <JanC>	markvandenborre: currently you are the only more or less active person who has access to the account
 248 jan 20 22:33:05 <JanC>	I would have to look up who is the other person  ;)
 249 jan 20 22:33:26 <markvandenborre>	Alexandre Laurent, not active since 3 years on ubuntu-be.org
 250 jan 20 22:33:29 <JanC>	I think it would be good if a second active person has access too?
 251 jan 20 22:33:31 <jean7491>	the case: someone orders a t-shirt and has to pay it to ubuntu-be, before receiving the t-shirt: it needs reractions
 252 jan 20 22:33:46 <markvandenborre>	you don't need a bank account for that
 253 jan 20 22:33:50 <JanC>	and maybe this could be e.g. wouter, as he will take care of the t-shirts?
 254 jan 20 22:34:10 <markvandenborre>	he/someone related to him pays for a pile of t-shirts
 255 jan 20 22:34:21 <markvandenborre>	to the ubuntu-be.org bank account
 256 jan 20 22:34:40 <markvandenborre>	in one batch
 257 jan 20 22:34:45 <JanC>	?
 258 jan 20 22:34:57 <markvandenborre>	let's say 10 t-shirts is a manageable batch
 259 jan 20 22:35:13 <markvandenborre>	sell packages (either at a discount or not)
 260 jan 20 22:35:14 <jean7491>	but 1 person ordering 1 t-shirt: does he pay to ubuntu-be directly ?
 261 jan 20 22:35:17 <JanC>	woutervddn will handle all the orders (maybe with some help)
 262 jan 20 22:35:24 <markvandenborre>	and don't care how it will be resold
 263 jan 20 22:35:27 <markvandenborre>	?
 264 jan 20 22:35:34 <markvandenborre>	(that's just a suggestion)
 265 jan 20 22:36:10 <JanC>	so somebody will have to be able to get frequent updates of the ubuntu-be account
 266 jan 20 22:36:53 <woutervddn>	I agree with mark that paying for 10 at a time to ubuntu be is a better idea.. I allready suggested that before..
 267 jan 20 22:37:10 <woutervddn>	we could say the second account buys 10 from ubuntu-be and resells it..
 268 jan 20 22:37:14 <JanC>	how would that work?
 269 jan 20 22:37:27 <woutervddn>	U-be has his money and we get the money back to account no2
 270 jan 20 22:37:31 <JanC>	how do you know what sizes you'll need?
 271 jan 20 22:37:46 <JanC>	and how will you explain to the tax office?  ;)
 272 jan 20 22:38:04 <JanC>	(in case they bother to annoy you)
 273 jan 20 22:38:08 <markvandenborre>	JanC: don't worry about that
 274 jan 20 22:38:48 <woutervddn>	well we could take any number aslong as it's bulk order to ubuntu-be it's all settled..
 275 jan 20 22:39:17 <JanC>	markvandenborre: in any case, we need to replace Alexandre, right?
 276 jan 20 22:39:22 <woutervddn>	10 or 37, doesn't matter as long it's been payed for in 1 time..
 277 jan 20 22:39:38 <jean7491>	at the other hand, it is not good to mix your personal money with the money for t-shirts
 278 jan 20 22:39:39 <markvandenborre>	yes, but that's an entirely different problem
 279 jan 20 22:39:44 <woutervddn>	JanC I agree with the last one but it shouldn't keep the shirt project from a go
 280 jan 20 22:39:51 <markvandenborre>	jean7491: it wouldn't be mixed up
 281 jan 20 22:40:10 <markvandenborre>	the way I see it whoever is interested buys a batch
 282 jan 20 22:40:28 <woutervddn>	we'd just make the second account on keytradebank but that account just buys the shirts from ubuntu-be
 283 jan 20 22:40:29 <markvandenborre>	and whatever this person does with them is not ubuntu-be.org's business anymore
 284 jan 20 22:40:39 <markvandenborre>	woutervddn: no
 285 jan 20 22:40:48 <JanC>	that doesn't work well IMO
 286 jan 20 22:40:48 <markvandenborre>	that's just making things more complex
 287 jan 20 22:41:14 <JanC>	not many people want to invest time & money in selling t-shirts...
 288 jan 20 22:41:19 <woutervddn>	why more complex? If i would be the person that handles it I wouldn't do it with my personal account..
 289 jan 20 22:41:37 <woutervddn>	okay this is how I see it..
 290 jan 20 22:41:53 <woutervddn>	I buy lets say 35 shirts from ubuntu-be and pay to mark
 291 jan 20 22:42:20 <JanC>	why would you "buy" them beforehand?
 292 jan 20 22:42:26 <woutervddn>	I resell those shirts on my own and people pay me on a new account..
 293 jan 20 22:42:32 <markvandenborre>	you pay to ubuntu-be.org..
 294 jan 20 22:42:36 <JanC>	they will be at your home anyway  ;)
 295 jan 20 22:42:51 <woutervddn>	because then you won't have an argument to why we shouldn't use a second account :)
 296 jan 20 22:42:56 <markvandenborre>	whatever suits you, as long as this second account isn't an ubuntu-be.org account
 297 jan 20 22:43:11 <woutervddn>	it wouldn't be, it would be an account from me and bram..
 298 jan 20 22:43:19 <markvandenborre>	perfect, why not
 299 jan 20 22:43:20 <woutervddn>	totally seperated from ubuntu-be (legally..)
 300 jan 20 22:43:37 <markvandenborre>	and anyone else could do the same
 301 jan 20 22:43:56 <JanC>	I think it's not a good idea to spread the t-shirts too much
 302 jan 20 22:43:57 <jean7491>	but you don't nee to buy the t-shirts !
 303 jan 20 22:44:27 <JanC>	and as woutervddn & bram will do all the work, they shouldn't have to finance it either
 304 jan 20 22:44:39 <jean7491>	idd
 305 jan 20 22:44:40 <JanC>	pre-finance
 306 jan 20 22:45:10 <woutervddn>	if that isn't the problem then what the hell is? :s
 307 jan 20 22:45:45 <woutervddn>	either way it's a mess to let people pay directly to ubuntu-be and neither bram or I are going to use our personal account for it..
 308 jan 20 22:46:15 <woutervddn>	I only say 2 options here.. either pre paid on a second account (either on bram or my name) or post paid
 309 jan 20 22:46:21 <markvandenborre>	directly doesn't have to be a mess, but I can't be expected to check this account every day and email ...
 310 jan 20 22:46:33 <markvandenborre>	or cash to you, or ...
 311 jan 20 22:46:49 <markvandenborre>	I don't really see the problem right here either
 312 jan 20 22:47:00 <woutervddn>	mark.. exactly.. that's why this would make things easier..
 313 jan 20 22:47:10 <JanC>	which is why I propose to give somebody else access to the account too  ;)
 314 jan 20 22:47:23 <markvandenborre>	JanC: I think we all agree that that is healthy
 315 jan 20 22:47:27 <markvandenborre>	(and it takes time)
 316 jan 20 22:47:28 <clamam>	yes, but who
 317 jan 20 22:47:40 <markvandenborre>	so no short term solution
 318 jan 20 22:47:50 <markvandenborre>	when it comes to t-shirt sales
 319 jan 20 22:47:55 <woutervddn>	well we can do this on the long term but not before fosdem..
 320 jan 20 22:48:12 <woutervddn>	so for the time being I propose a second temporary account for it..
 321 jan 20 22:48:12 <markvandenborre>	but for fosdem it's easy, right?
 322 jan 20 22:48:21 <JanC>	we don't need it for FOSDEM
 323 jan 20 22:48:32 <markvandenborre>	I will be there and we can have live access to the bank account
 324 jan 20 22:48:41 <markvandenborre>	for everyone to see
 325 jan 20 22:48:45 <woutervddn>	(I meant the preorders before fosdem..)
 326 jan 20 22:49:11 <markvandenborre>	preorders are not a problem
 327 jan 20 22:49:14 <jean7491>	fosdem: money has to transfer directly to ubuntu-be !
 328 jan 20 22:49:23 <markvandenborre>	exactly
 329 jan 20 22:49:33 <JanC>	if people want to pick up pre-ordered t-shirts at FOSDEM I will need proof of payment indeed
 330 jan 20 22:49:33 <markvandenborre>	preorders for collection at fosdem
 331 jan 20 22:49:44 <markvandenborre>	you will have that
 332 jan 20 22:49:50 <markvandenborre>	so that problem is solved
 333 jan 20 22:50:19 <JanC>	the ycan also pay cash @ FOSDEM
 334 jan 20 22:50:25 <markvandenborre>	you will have live account access at FOSDEM
 335 jan 20 22:51:05 <woutervddn>	and for people who won't come to fosdem?
 336 jan 20 22:51:18 <JanC>	send them with B-Post  ;)
 337 jan 20 22:51:51 <woutervddn>	and pay with?
 338 jan 20 22:51:52 <markvandenborre>	woutervddn: you do the t-shirts thing right? so I imagine you have found some way to handle physical logistisc
 339 jan 20 22:52:02 <jean7491>	summary: when a lot t-shirts are saled (like fosdem), payment directly to ubuntu-be, for small orders and preorders, via wouter/bram and a special account
 340 jan 20 22:52:05 <woutervddn>	yes..
 341 jan 20 22:52:17 <woutervddn>	I vote for that..
 342 jan 20 22:52:34 <jean7491>	vote for what ?
 343 jan 20 22:52:37 <markvandenborre>	via the fosdem account is also no problem for as far as people can wait for let's say 2 weeks
 344 jan 20 22:52:42 <woutervddn>	for your summary..
 345 jan 20 22:52:42 <markvandenborre>	(worst case)
 346 jan 20 22:53:05 <JanC>	heh?
 347 jan 20 22:53:13 <JanC>	what would we need fosdem account for?
 348 jan 20 22:53:14 <jean7491>	the fosdem account ??? 
 349 jan 20 22:53:44 <markvandenborre>	erf, sorry, confused
 350 jan 20 22:53:46 <woutervddn>	he meant the ubuntu-be account
 351 jan 20 22:53:52 <markvandenborre>	yes, of course
 352 jan 20 22:54:45 <jean7491>	but i suspect 2 weeks delay is too long for some people
 353 jan 20 22:55:03 <woutervddn>	indeed..
 354 jan 20 22:55:39 <woutervddn>	so until someone willing to check every day has access to the U-be account I'd use the extra account.. aftwards we could just delete that.. :)
 355 jan 20 22:55:42 <markvandenborre>	I can schedule some dates, or do this weekly
 356 jan 20 22:56:16 <markvandenborre>	let's say for the next 2 months, I check the account once a week?
 357 jan 20 22:56:43 <markvandenborre>	that removes a lot of the complexity
 358 jan 20 22:57:04 <markvandenborre>	and after that, I presume someone like Jean or Jan will already have
 359 jan 20 22:57:16 <markvandenborre>	access to the ubuntu-be.org bank account
 360 jan 20 22:57:21 <markvandenborre>	-> problem solved?
 361 jan 20 22:57:56 <jean7491>	another solution is to give wouter a read only access to ubuntu-be account ?
 362 jan 20 22:58:15 <markvandenborre>	but he could get rw access, that's not the problem
 363 jan 20 22:58:16 <JanC>	is that possible?
 364 jan 20 22:58:18 <jean7491>	as you can manage it at the k-bank
 365 jan 20 22:58:37 <markvandenborre>	only there's no option to do that before signing paperwork etcetera
 366 jan 20 22:58:41 <markvandenborre>	-> takes time
 367 jan 20 22:59:37 <markvandenborre>	that's why I suggest a weekly check and me sending out the information to Wouter before more people have access again
 368 jan 20 23:00:14 <JanC>	I think people can wait 1 week
 369 jan 20 23:00:16 <jean7491>	weekly sounds good for me
 370 jan 20 23:00:30 <markvandenborre>	right
 371 jan 20 23:00:34 <JanC>	it's a volunteer job after all
 372 jan 20 23:00:39 <markvandenborre>	exactly
 373 jan 20 23:00:53 <JanC>	if they want daily, they can volunteer  ;)
 374 jan 20 23:01:06 <jean7491>	everybody agrees ?
 375 jan 20 23:01:18 <woutervddn>	we do it like that then :) if mark sends the mail to me I'll figure out what has to be sent to bram and which are for me to take care of :)
 376 jan 20 23:01:41 <jean7491>	ok, thanks !
 377 jan 20 23:01:53 <markvandenborre>	right, so who else for bank account access?
 378 jan 20 23:02:02 <markvandenborre>	jean7491: would you like to have it?
 379 jan 20 23:02:08 <markvandenborre>	JanC: ?
 380 jan 20 23:02:11 <markvandenborre>	anyone else?
 381 jan 20 23:02:33 <woutervddn>	If I could have one it's a lot easier.. only read access is enough..
 382 jan 20 23:02:53 <jean7491>	bank-account problem is solved for t-shirts - the other problem is for later !
 383 jan 20 23:03:28 <markvandenborre>	jean7491: later, but as soon as possible
 384 jan 20 23:03:53 <JanC>	markvandenborre: IIRC we ahve to pay extra for more than 2, right?
 385 jan 20 23:04:13 <markvandenborre>	I don't know exactly, but there was something difficult about having more than two
 386 jan 20 23:04:25 <markvandenborre>	might have changed in the mean time
 387 jan 20 23:04:42 <JanC>	IIRC you only get 2 bank cards by default or something
 388 jan 20 23:04:43 <markvandenborre>	I also asked for anonymous read access, but that was not possible at the time
 389 jan 20 23:04:49 <markvandenborre>	yes, something like that
 390 jan 20 23:05:03 <jean7491>	ok mark, thanks for your help, but i suggest we continue t-shirts item with sale-price ...
 391 jan 20 23:05:03 <markvandenborre>	so someone will have to contact Alexandre, for revoking his access
 392 jan 20 23:05:05 <JanC>	and probably need it to access the website?
 393 jan 20 23:05:30 <jean7491>	i suggest we continue t-shirts item with sale-price .. .
 394 jan 20 23:05:37 <markvandenborre>	no, it's an RSA id
 395 jan 20 23:05:56 <JanC>	markvandenborre: can you make sure the t-shirts are paid ASAP so they are in time for FOSDEm?
 396 jan 20 23:06:32 *	wouter_vddn (~woutervdd@d54C1A7ED.access.telenet.be) a rejoint #ubuntu-be
 397 jan 20 23:06:43 <JanC>	markvandenborre: and maybe ask the bank how to transfer access to the account (what's needed etc.)
 398 jan 20 23:06:52 <markvandenborre>	http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=1&sqi=2&ved=0CBsQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.keytradebank.com%2Fpdf%2Fdoccenter%2FdocsOpenAssocNoLegal%2FdocsOpenAssocNoLegalSubscr_nl.pdf&rct=j&q=keytrade%20vereniging&ei=v7E4TdzpCYSSOr6DlI4L&usg=AFQjCNEb2iwdR2IObQp9VzUbOuOQ1u080w&cad=rja
 399 jan 20 23:06:58 <markvandenborre>	JanC: I will
 400 jan 20 23:07:07 <markvandenborre>	jean7491: sorry to get back to this, but...
 401 jan 20 23:07:07 <wouter_vddn>	sorry I timed out.. missed anything?
 402 jan 20 23:07:29 <JanC>	wouter_vddn: what was the last you saw?
 403 jan 20 23:07:36 <markvandenborre>	oops, google doesn't seem to do clean urls anumore
 404 jan 20 23:07:45 <wouter_vddn>	<jean7491> bank-account problem is solved for t-shirts - the other problem is for later !
 405 jan 20 23:07:53 *	woutervddn est parti (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
 406 jan 20 23:08:07 <JanC>	I'll pastebin it
 407 jan 20 23:08:28 <jean7491>	coming back to my previous suggestion: 15 euros, normal price, 13 euros in presale but including port ?
 408 jan 20 23:08:37 <JanC>	http://paste.ubuntu.com/556344/
 409 jan 20 23:09:29 <JanC>	don't we need to be sure how much port & packaging (don't forget!) costs before deciding a final price?
 410 jan 20 23:09:42 <markvandenborre>	yes, even before ordering I'd suggest
 411 jan 20 23:09:55 <markvandenborre>	but then again... bit late for me to come up with that :)
 412 jan 20 23:10:05 <wouter_vddn>	thx.. fr the paste
 413 jan 20 23:10:42 <JanC>	markvandenborre: this is P&P for sending to people in .be
 414 jan 20 23:10:47 <wouter_vddn>	port and packaging from the comany to us is settled mark..
 415 jan 20 23:10:55 <markvandenborre>	yes, I know
 416 jan 20 23:11:17 <wouter_vddn>	for the p&p it's 3.5€ top..
 417 jan 20 23:11:27 <jean7491>	port and packing should be between +/- 2.10 and 4 euros
 418 jan 20 23:11:43 <JanC>	for 1 t-shirt?
 419 jan 20 23:11:43 <wouter_vddn>	so with that in mind we can determine the price..
 420 jan 20 23:11:48 <jean7491>	4 or 3.5
 421 jan 20 23:12:02 <wouter_vddn>	janC yes for 1 shirt..
 422 jan 20 23:12:07 <markvandenborre>	8.56+4=12.5
 423 jan 20 23:12:15 <JanC>	and less for more I guess
 424 jan 20 23:12:33 <markvandenborre>	so at zero profit, you need 12.5€/t-shirt to break even
 425 jan 20 23:12:35 <wouter_vddn>	yes..
 426 jan 20 23:12:46 <wouter_vddn>	mark.. it's not 8.56 for a shirt..
 427 jan 20 23:12:55 <markvandenborre>	ah, numbers changed?
 428 jan 20 23:12:59 <wouter_vddn>	yes..
 429 jan 20 23:13:16 <JanC>	what's total cost / 100 ?
 430 jan 20 23:13:48 <wouter_vddn>	8,0623
 431 jan 20 23:13:56 <JanC>	right
 432 jan 20 23:14:03 <wouter_vddn>	so let's take 8,07 to count with :)
 433 jan 20 23:14:23 <JanC>	+/- 12 €
 434 jan 20 23:14:49 <wouter_vddn>	indeed.. So we're at least break even for the pre orders.. :)
 435 jan 20 23:15:21 <JanC>	so, 13 € / t-shirt pre-orders, 15 € / t-shirt later orders sounds okay
 436 jan 20 23:15:27 <markvandenborre>	...or
 437 jan 20 23:15:29 <markvandenborre>	...
 438 jan 20 23:15:39 <JanC>	and for FOSDEM etc. I can sell them at 12 or 13 € ?
 439 jan 20 23:15:54 <markvandenborre>	at 10 is ok, logistics are zero there
 440 jan 20 23:16:02 <markvandenborre>	same for batches...
 441 jan 20 23:16:06 <markvandenborre>	it's the postage
 442 jan 20 23:16:10 <markvandenborre>	that does it
 443 jan 20 23:16:17 <markvandenborre>	9.99€ :)
 444 jan 20 23:16:28 <wouter_vddn>	mark.. we are looking for a little more benefit for U-be I think..
 445 jan 20 23:16:30 <markvandenborre>	minimum contribution = 9.99€
 446 jan 20 23:16:34 <JanC>	markvandenborre: ubuntu-fr will bring some t-shirts at 12 € to FOSDEM too
 447 jan 20 23:16:51 <wouter_vddn>	(btw, I managed to get a blouse of my girlfriend inside the 3.50 package..)
 448 jan 20 23:16:54 <markvandenborre>	wouter_vddn: no, if this was about profit, we would have done something else
 449 jan 20 23:17:11 <markvandenborre>	we mostly want to avoid a loss first
 450 jan 20 23:17:24 <wouter_vddn>	I remember reading something else..
 451 jan 20 23:17:27 <markvandenborre>	and get some visiblity for ubuntu
 452 jan 20 23:17:29 <JanC>	there is always some loss with leftovers anyway  ;)
 453 jan 20 23:17:33 <markvandenborre>	or did I misunderstand that?
 454 jan 20 23:17:38 <JanC>	s/always/often/
 455 jan 20 23:18:20 <jean7491>	fosdem price, if lower, should not be below 12 euros
 456 jan 20 23:18:25 <markvandenborre>	(I'm sorry if I overlooked things, but I thought that was the primary goal of the t-shirts)
 457 jan 20 23:19:02 <JanC>	markvandenborre: making a small profit is better than making a loss, but it's not like we don't have money...
 458 jan 20 23:19:07 <markvandenborre>	it all depends on goals: if it's profitability, I'd rather say scrap the project
 459 jan 20 23:19:30 <markvandenborre>	(nasty as that may sound, and ungrateful after all the effort spent)
 460 jan 20 23:19:56 <markvandenborre>	if it's extra visiblity at low or zero cost, it all becomes different
 461 jan 20 23:20:05 <markvandenborre>	just like pricing
 462 jan 20 23:20:33 <JanC>	the main reason to ask 12 € at FOSDEM is to equalize prices
 463 jan 20 23:20:35 <wouter_vddn>	mark.. I think the goal was to get our name out but with this creating changes for U-be to do more..
 464 jan 20 23:21:09 <JanC>	and if we make some profit, we can always use it to give away t-shirts etc.  ;)
 465 jan 20 23:21:10 <jean7491>	and getting some extra money to acquire material for promotion
 466 jan 20 23:21:18 <wouter_vddn>	the money we get from it would fully go back in the U-be system enabling us to do more things..
 467 jan 20 23:21:25 <clamam>	we are all volunteers to promote ubuntu and not to make money of it. that's my opinion
 468 jan 20 23:21:42 <massimo21>	agree too
 469 jan 20 23:21:49 <wouter_vddn>	clamam, it's not like we are out to money for ourselves..
 470 jan 20 23:21:59 <markvandenborre>	for the moment there's zero profit, and an 800€ cost
 471 jan 20 23:22:14 <jean7491>	idd
 472 jan 20 23:22:21 <markvandenborre>	if you want to minimise that side of the equation, you want to get rid of a pile in the beginning
 473 jan 20 23:22:27 <markvandenborre>	to get closer to break even asap
 474 jan 20 23:23:05 <markvandenborre>	we could say we keep a few for fairs for example
 475 jan 20 23:23:35 <massimo21>	i heve to go now
 476 jan 20 23:23:42 <massimo21>	good night people
 477 jan 20 23:23:42 <clamam>	Wouter: for me breakeven sounds good to me
 478 jan 20 23:23:42 <markvandenborre>	no problemo, see you!
 479 jan 20 23:24:12 *	massimo21 (~massimo21@91.176.27.75) a quitté #ubuntu-be
 480 jan 20 23:24:42 <clamam>	 a little profit is good, but we don't have ove do it
 481 jan 20 23:24:46 <jean7491>	summary: 15 euros in events, 13 euros in preorder (incl port) and 12 euro in fosdem ?
 482 jan 20 23:25:12 <JanC>	and 15 € when ordered later?
 483 jan 20 23:25:20 <JanC>	or more?
 484 jan 20 23:25:29 <jean7491>	 + port
 485 jan 20 23:25:50 <jean7491>	= +/- 18.5
 486 jan 20 23:25:52 <markvandenborre>	I say look at the worst case scenario
 487 jan 20 23:26:03 <wouter_vddn>	mark, and that is?
 488 jan 20 23:26:07 <markvandenborre>	that we want to avoid
 489 jan 20 23:26:21 <markvandenborre>	and look at the optimal scenario that we would love to see
 490 jan 20 23:26:24 <markvandenborre>	financially spoken
 491 jan 20 23:26:30 <wouter_vddn>	I like the prices that jean gave..
 492 jan 20 23:26:36 <markvandenborre>	and look at it from there also
 493 jan 20 23:26:58 <wouter_vddn>	we can allways lower the price later on..
 494 jan 20 23:27:25 <wouter_vddn>	the fair price might be 14 instead of 15 but other prices are good as they are (in my opinion)
 495 jan 20 23:27:29 <markvandenborre>	how many do we want to keep for ubuntu-be.org fairs?
 496 jan 20 23:27:34 <JanC>	wouter_vddn: next year during the "solden"  ?  :P
 497 jan 20 23:27:42 <wouter_vddn>	:p for instance :p
 498 jan 20 23:27:51 <wouter_vddn>	mark.. doesn't matter.. the more that are out the better..
 499 jan 20 23:27:58 <wouter_vddn>	if it's a succes we can make new once..
 500 jan 20 23:28:05 <JanC>	if everything is gone, we can order new t-shirts
 501 jan 20 23:28:15 <wouter_vddn>	depending on the speed people buy them we can change the amount we order (and the design..)
 502 jan 20 23:28:26 <markvandenborre>	...and if only 10 are gone, there's 90 sitting in a box
 503 jan 20 23:28:40 <wouter_vddn>	indeed..
 504 jan 20 23:28:43 <markvandenborre>	(I'm not saying that is going to happen)
 505 jan 20 23:28:47 <jean7491>	who disagree with : 15 euros in events, 13 euros in preorder (incl port) and 12 euro in fosdem ?
 506 jan 20 23:28:54 <JanC>	I'm sure that's not going to happen  ;)
 507 jan 20 23:29:05 <clamam>	it's good for me Jean7491
 508 jan 20 23:29:07 <JanC>	jean7491: I agree
 509 jan 20 23:29:17 <wouter_vddn>	but if it does we've learned out of that and we could give them away..
 510 jan 20 23:29:22 *	markvandenborre would rather see a lower price, but I certainly won't disagree, I'm not involved enough
 511 jan 20 23:29:25 <wouter_vddn>	I agree also
 512 jan 20 23:29:50 <wouter_vddn>	mark.. if this is a succes we can order more and lower the price..
 513 jan 20 23:29:53 <JanC>	markvandenborre: it's rather low already, considering we have organic/fair trade t-shirts
 514 jan 20 23:30:04 <wouter_vddn>	^true that..
 515 jan 20 23:30:26 <clamam>	we have to bye 100, or else the project is stuck and it took a long time to get to this point
 516 jan 20 23:30:47 <jean7491>	wouter : next about t-shirts ?
 517 jan 20 23:30:57 <clamam>	finally we can offer more then only our know how and cd's ad fairs
 518 jan 20 23:31:25 <wouter_vddn>	sorry jean but I had my shirt portion for today :p
 519 jan 20 23:31:34 <wouter_vddn>	not really anything to say about it now :p
 520 jan 20 23:31:38 <jean7491>	if no other comment, design and presale should be added as soon as possible in the facebook-ubuntu-be and identi.ca !ubuntube ...
 521 jan 20 23:32:15 <clamam>	ok, i will do that for Facebook
 522 jan 20 23:32:18 <jean7491>	for that, we need a copy of the final design you sent with the order
 523 jan 20 23:32:20 <wouter_vddn>	(and maybe all at the same time with the new plugin if we're lucky ;) )
 524 jan 20 23:32:38 <wouter_vddn>	ok..
 525 jan 20 23:32:48 <wouter_vddn>	I'll post it on the ml as soon as the pre order page is created..
 526 jan 20 23:32:57 <clamam>	wouter: that would be nice
 527 jan 20 23:33:31 <jean7491>	but i propose to wait the go from wouter, or at least to coordinate with him before publication in facebook or other places 
 528 jan 20 23:33:46 <markvandenborre>	have to go, working tomorrow morning
 529 jan 20 23:33:49 <JanC>	of course
 530 jan 20 23:33:55 <clamam>	ok
 531 jan 20 23:34:01 <jean7491>	thanks mark !
 532 jan 20 23:34:04 <JanC>	markvandenborre: slaapwel  ☺
 533 jan 20 23:34:08 <markvandenborre>	my pleasure
 534 jan 20 23:34:14 <clamam>	goodnight mark
 535 jan 20 23:34:22 *	markvandenborre has to get up at 7 tomorrow...
 536 jan 20 23:34:36 <wouter_vddn>	slaap wel ;)
 537 jan 20 23:34:39 *	markvandenborre (~mark@ubuntu/member/markvandenborre) a quitté #ubuntu-be
 538 jan 20 23:35:00 <wouter_vddn>	clamam.. a teaser might be thrown on Facebook maybe.. xD
 539 jan 20 23:35:31 <jean7491>	last word about t-shirts  wiki page https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BelgianTeam/PromotionMaterial will have to be updated 
 540 jan 20 23:35:32 <clamam>	great idea wouter
 541 jan 20 23:36:03 <jean7491>	i propose we leave the t-shirts to  item #2 promotion material for fairs/events : a few ideas ... 
 542 jan 20 23:36:32 <jean7491>	JanC: do you have stickers “Powered by Ubuntu” to add in event-boxes gent, antwerp, mechelen, hasselt?
 543 jan 20 23:37:07 <clamam>	we have a set of wallpapers for the pc's and laptops used on the fairs
 544 jan 20 23:37:21 <clamam>	Massimo21 has made them http://www.facebook.com/#!/group.php?gid=87950312093
 545 jan 20 23:37:31 <wouter_vddn>	I'll update..
 546 jan 20 23:37:54 <clamam>	they look nice on our pc's
 547 jan 20 23:38:01 <JanC>	jean7491: I have some stickers left, and I will be ordering new ones
 548 jan 20 23:38:20 <wouter_vddn>	they do look nice
 549 jan 20 23:38:28 <clamam>	we can use them to make custom iso's
 550 jan 20 23:38:28 <jean7491>	for example to be added to cd's you send in the future
 551 jan 20 23:38:46 <wouter_vddn>	but as a member of ubuntu-artwork I have to say they are not conform with the branding guides (not that I care about it, I love them ;) )
 552 jan 20 23:39:12 <wouter_vddn>	the CD's and the education is the next project I want to put my wings on
 553 jan 20 23:39:12 <clamam>	i know but this looks great
 554 jan 20 23:39:17 <wouter_vddn>	*under
 555 jan 20 23:39:23 <JanC>	please put wallpapers on the wiki also  ;)
 556 jan 20 23:39:30 <wouter_vddn>	clamam: I agree :p but people would kill me otherwize :p
 557 jan 20 23:39:40 *	JanC can't see them on facebook
 558 jan 20 23:39:57 <clamam>	i will ask massimo on sunday @ the fair in Hasselt
 559 jan 20 23:40:19 <wouter_vddn>	clamam, can you upload them to spreadubuntu.org?
 560 jan 20 23:40:48 <clamam>	JanC: http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=87950312093&v=photos
 561 jan 20 23:41:35 <jean7491>	you can place the backgrounds in wiki  ttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/BelgianTeam/PromotionMaterial
 562 jan 20 23:41:40 <clamam>	i will try that, but massimo is the designer and i am going to ask him
 563 jan 20 23:41:50 <jean7491>	ok
 564 jan 20 23:41:58 <JanC>	we can't use them in a remix because of the branding guidelines
 565 jan 20 23:42:20 <JanC>	but if people want to put them on their own desktop...
 566 jan 20 23:42:31 <wouter_vddn>	janC.. we can add them..
 567 jan 20 23:42:51 <JanC>	wouter_vddn: if we want to call it "Ubuntu" we can't  ;)
 568 jan 20 23:42:58 <wouter_vddn>	we just can't put them as a default (and even that we can.. just not in the default that we present to canonical)
 569 jan 20 23:43:19 <wouter_vddn>	yes we can janc.. if it's not the default we can ship anything with it..
 570 jan 20 23:43:23 <JanC>	not showing doesn't make it legal  ;)
 571 jan 20 23:44:14 <wouter_vddn>	jan.. I read the guidelines 2 and a half times for the flyer proposal and I made wallpapers for edubuntu, xubuntu and lubuntu..
 572 jan 20 23:44:15 <jean7491>	sorry, i continue with promotion ideas ...
 573 jan 20 23:44:24 <wouter_vddn>	trust me.. we can..
 574 jan 20 23:44:43 <jean7491>	wouter translated the (dodecahedron) ubuntu-calendar 2011 in dutch: see http://spreadubuntu.org/node/612 , nice goodie, to be printed on 160 gr. Paper, but not easy to realize the construction, but I succeeded
 575 jan 20 23:45:17 <wouter_vddn>	xD cutting guides are in the svg when you open it in inkscape.. :p
 576 jan 20 23:45:41 <wouter_vddn>	( left of the printable area.. you can't see it in fotoviewer..)
 577 jan 20 23:46:25 <jean7491>	ok, thanks wouter, another idea ... 
 578 jan 20 23:46:32 <wouter_vddn>	anyways.. I love the calendars and I'm going to make a white version for printing..
 579 jan 20 23:46:57 *	pep` est parti (Quit: so long and thanks for all the fish)
 580 jan 20 23:47:14 <jean7491>	i printed it in colour with inkjet, without problem 
 581 jan 20 23:47:31 <jean7491>	next : about the flyers ubuntu-be a6 (2009): as i expect that our stock will out/empty in june 2011, I called for new ideas/designs
 582 jan 20 23:47:31 <jean7491>	a new wiki page is available: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BelgianTeam/PromotionMaterial/ProposalsFlyers2011
 583 jan 20 23:47:31 <jean7491>	please add your proposals/comments in the mailing list and in the wiki 
 584 jan 20 23:49:30 <jean7491>	for a short(!) meeting : other questions/comments ? next irc meeting ? on thursday 27/01/2011 at 21 h.
 585 jan 20 23:49:39 <wouter_vddn>	LOL4
 586 jan 20 23:49:46 <wouter_vddn>	I'll be there..
 587 jan 20 23:49:55 <JanC>	ok
 588 jan 20 23:50:48 <jean7491>	ok, end of meeting - thanks to all for your participation, have a good night !
 589 jan 20 23:50:54 <clamam>	is there a way to set a meeting for all of us to meet each other and for a drink?
 590 jan 20 23:51:15 <JanC>	clamam: ofcourse, would be a good idea
 591 jan 20 23:51:30 <JanC>	preferably somewhere "central"
 592 jan 20 23:51:32 <wouter_vddn>	YES! we discussed this in leuven..
 593 jan 20 23:51:43 <clamam>	can we put it in the agenda for a next meeting
 594 jan 20 23:51:45 <JanC>	we have done that before
 595 jan 20 23:51:49 <wouter_vddn>	it's a good idea to meet with people that won't go to a dipro beurs otherwize..
 596 jan 20 23:52:29 <JanC>	clamam: the agenda is a wiki  ;)
 597 jan 20 23:52:38 <wouter_vddn>	btw.. last question.. no one of you guys happens to have an old A4 plotter lying around on the attic?
 598 jan 20 23:52:50 <JanC>	I don't
 599 jan 20 23:52:51 <jean7491>	good idea, i agree, just launch propositions
 600 jan 20 23:53:01 <jean7491>	no plotter
 601 jan 20 23:53:15 <clamam>	no plotter
 602 jan 20 23:53:53 <wouter_vddn>	damn.. :( I'd want to make a laser cutter but designing the x-y system is like 100 times the amount of work to make the laser setup :p
 603 jan 20 23:54:35 <JanC>	wouter_vddn: build it with lego technics?  ;)
 604 jan 20 23:55:06 <jean7491>	thanks for your participation, and perhaps we will succeed with an irl meeting (!) -- bye