Ubuntu Wiki

   1 mar 10 21:00:54 <jean7491>	   hi to all, who is here for the meeting ?
   2 mar 10 21:01:00 <stefwal>	me
   3 mar 10 21:01:08 <woutervddn>	me 2
   4 mar 10 21:01:10 <jurgentje>	me 3
   5 mar 10 21:01:25 <massimo21>	me4
   6 mar 10 21:01:33 <acraens>	i'm
   7 mar 10 21:01:43 <woutervddn>	lolz...
   8 mar 10 21:01:49 *	JanC (~janc@lugwv/member/JanC) a rejoint #ubuntu-be
   9 mar 10 21:02:01 *	djim-fey (510bf6e2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.81.11.246.226) a rejoint #ubuntu-be
  10 mar 10 21:02:02 <jean7491>	hi stefwal Jurgentje massimo21 acraens woutervddn 
  11 mar 10 21:02:10 <clamam>	hello
  12 mar 10 21:02:41 <woutervddn>	o/ hi all...
  13 mar 10 21:02:47 <jean7491>	hi clamam
  14 mar 10 21:03:13 <jean7491>	hi djim-fey ?
  15 mar 10 21:03:37 <djim-fey>	hi all
  16 mar 10 21:04:00 <djim-fey>	i just wanne follow de report of antwerp
  17 mar 10 21:04:28 <jean7491>	djim-fey ok, JanC ?
  18 mar 10 21:04:52 <JanC>	I'm here
  19 mar 10 21:05:03 <jean7491>	hi JanC
  20 mar 10 21:05:24 *	vromh (5bb5f07c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.91.181.240.124) a rejoint #ubuntu-be
  21 mar 10 21:06:06 <jean7491>	hi to all, i propose to start with topic #1.  past and future events
  22 mar 10 21:06:42 <jean7491>	first item about hobby and computerdays in antwerp
  23 mar 10 21:06:54 <jean7491>	report and pictures from the hobby and computerdays in antwerp were added to the wiki https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BelgianTeam/ComputerFairs/Antwerp_2011-02-26-27
  24 mar 10 21:07:08 <jean7491>	imho, this event is a major activity that should be a priority in our calendar 
  25 mar 10 21:07:18 <jean7491>	again thanks to the volunteers!
  26 mar 10 21:07:58 <jurgentje>	fully agree. It was nice that we could share a booth with a computer club.
  27 mar 10 21:08:51 <jean7491>	it was a separate booth, but on place of course, it is better to cooperate with other clubs
  28 mar 10 21:09:24 <jurgentje>	yeah... maybe it could be a great idea to invite clubs to add theirselves to the support points map?
  29 mar 10 21:10:13 <jean7491>	last year, we were part of hcc booth, this year, it was a separate booth, easier to organize, but i was not present in antwerp
  30 mar 10 21:10:39 *	vromh est parti (Quit: Page closed)
  31 mar 10 21:11:03 <jurgentje>	I was on Sunday - it was quite busy, but a pleasant ambiance. We had plenty of volunteers
  32 mar 10 21:11:19 <jean7491>	about clubs, we are open for cooperation ! support map is another matter, more individuals
  33 mar 10 21:11:32 <jurgentje>	In my experience, we had more people who didn't know ubuntu yet, in comparison to other dipro meetings
  34 mar 10 21:11:39 <woutervddn>	love the report..
  35 mar 10 21:12:40 <jean7491>	about volunteers, we need to continue relation with volunteers after the event till the next , but need of local initiative !
  36 mar 10 21:12:57 <jean7491>	report is from nero
  37 mar 10 21:13:44 <woutervddn>	hmm.. seems like they sold female shirts (which comes as a surprise for me..)
  38 mar 10 21:14:05 <woutervddn>	but seeing the pictures and the rest of the report i agree that this isn't a small event anymore
  39 mar 10 21:14:06 <jurgentje>	yep, we had a she-geek coming by on sunday :)
  40 mar 10 21:14:12 <jean7491>	as last part of the event and report, we should add a section about what has to be improve for next year
  41 mar 10 21:14:12 <woutervddn>	(at least for U-be it isnt)
  42 mar 10 21:15:06 <jean7491>	i'll ask nero to think about it, jurgentje, you have certainly ideas about how better next year ?
  43 mar 10 21:15:09 <woutervddn>	^good idea..
  44 mar 10 21:15:37 <jurgentje>	lol!
  45 mar 10 21:16:16 <jean7491>	jurgentje, djim-fey , think about what could be better and mail with nero for coordinationit
  46 mar 10 21:16:25 *	padv est parti (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  47 mar 10 21:16:25 <jean7491>	please !
  48 mar 10 21:16:26 <jurgentje>	Actually I thought it was organized quite well. Nero just noticed they forgot to split the money for the T-shirts (and the number of shirts sold wans't counted)
  49 mar 10 21:16:54 <woutervddn>	ow.. the report said they sold 5 shirts..
  50 mar 10 21:17:04 <woutervddn>	(I can recalculate if you want?)
  51 mar 10 21:17:19 <jean7491>	djim-fey your opinion ?
  52 mar 10 21:17:42 <jurgentje>	ah, nice... I guess they were counted prior to the fair :)
  53 mar 10 21:17:55 <djim-fey>	no idea yet, but i would keep thinking
  54 mar 10 21:18:02 <jean7491>	ok
  55 mar 10 21:18:24 *	padv (~pascal@178-119-161-82.access.telenet.be) a rejoint #ubuntu-be
  56 mar 10 21:18:33 <jean7491>	if no other comment,  item #2 dipro fair brugge – 13/03/2011
  57 mar 10 21:18:58 <jean7491>	 team and material are ok
  58 mar 10 21:19:04 <jean7491>	https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BelgianTeam/ComputerFairs/Brugge_2011-03-13
  59 mar 10 21:19:07 *	clamam est parti (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  60 mar 10 21:19:17 *	clamam (~claudio@d51A51C86.access.telenet.be) a rejoint #ubuntu-be
  61 mar 10 21:19:19 <jean7491>	JanC : comment ?
  62 mar 10 21:19:46 <JanC>	I also have part of the Ghent event box here, so equipment certainly isn't an issue
  63 mar 10 21:20:44 <jean7491>	ok, we have to see what about this ghent event-box, later ...
  64 mar 10 21:20:59 <jean7491>	next  item #3 dipro fair charleroi – 20/03/2011
  65 mar 10 21:21:09 <jean7491>	https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BelgianTeam/ComputerFairs/Charleroi_2011-03-20
  66 mar 10 21:21:26 <jean7491>	if volunteers, please add your names in wiki
  67 mar 10 21:21:35 <jean7491>	  adrien and sylvain are in charge., they aked for cd's, promotion material and t-shirts
  68 mar 10 21:21:49 <jean7491>	nero is ready to send material and remaining t-shirts, 
  69 mar 10 21:21:57 <jean7491>	 JanC : do you agree with the proposition to send banner, tablecloth,  metallic stickers, ubuntu-books and t-shirts to charleroi for the 3 events in preparation
  70 mar 10 21:22:47 <JanC>	jean7491: well, part of that is still with Nero
  71 mar 10 21:23:08 <JanC>	so we need to find a way to get it there
  72 mar 10 21:23:15 *	padv est parti (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  73 mar 10 21:23:23 <jean7491>	yes, but nero is ready to send it to charleroi via kiala
  74 mar 10 21:23:58 <JanC>	maybe he can make a list of what he's sending then?
  75 mar 10 21:24:32 <JanC>	I guess I'll still have to send some CDs too, and maybe also stickers or such?
  76 mar 10 21:24:34 <jean7491>	4 euros - 15 kg, list ok, he is ready, he told me yesterday, 
  77 mar 10 21:25:02 <jean7491>	about stickers, he has 66 , but with to sell some in mechelen
  78 mar 10 21:25:30 <jean7491>	we have to see about cd's 10.10 and 10.04 to be sent with stickers in 1 packet to sylvain for 2 events
  79 mar 10 21:26:09 <jean7491>	2 events = dipro + foire du libre in l-l-n
  80 mar 10 21:26:41 <JanC>	BTW: the free stickers are also metalic now, but just metalic ink on paper instead of printed on thin metal foil
  81 mar 10 21:27:52 <jean7491>	we see it in dipro, can you send cd's and free stickers to sylvain, post or kiala ?
  82 mar 10 21:27:54 <JanC>	I suppose the 66 are all the thin metal foil ones
  83 mar 10 21:28:33 <jean7491>	i suppose, don't know what nero received from you
  84 mar 10 21:28:35 <JanC>	yes, no problem, will see how many CDs I can send
  85 mar 10 21:28:44 <JanC>	he received both
  86 mar 10 21:28:54 <JanC>	but I guess teh free ones are all gone...  ;)
  87 mar 10 21:29:04 *	ttl- (~ttl@cl-1283.bru-01.be.sixxs.net) a rejoint #ubuntu-be
  88 mar 10 21:29:11 <jean7491>	? no idea
  89 mar 10 21:30:17 <jean7491>	i'll send a mail to nero for sending material, with list info to you (janC)
  90 mar 10 21:30:53 <JanC>	it's no problem to send extra free ones anyway
  91 mar 10 21:31:08 <jean7491>	with the cd's 
  92 mar 10 21:31:23 <JanC>	Nero can keep his for Mechelen and his computer club etc.
  93 mar 10 21:31:45 <jean7491>	ok
  94 mar 10 21:32:39 <jean7491>	if no other comment, item #4 dipro fair mechelen – 27/03/2011 
  95 mar 10 21:33:05 <jean7491>	  nero will coordinate the booth , volunteers, please add your names in the wiki https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BelgianTeam/ComputerFairs/Mechelen_2011-03-27
  96 mar 10 21:33:28 <jean7491>	thanks jurgentje, you were the first
  97 mar 10 21:33:42 <jurgentje>	:D Actually Nero put me on, he asked me ;)
  98 mar 10 21:33:54 <jean7491>	ok
  99 mar 10 21:34:17 <jean7491>	next item #5 – next events
 100 mar 10 21:34:29 <jean7491>	  03/04/2011 dipro genk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BelgianTeam/ComputerFairs/Genk_2011-04-03 (coordination: claudio)
 101 mar 10 21:34:39 <jean7491>	 06/04/2011 The Foire du Libre – Louvain-la-Neuve https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BelgianTeam/2011/FoireDuLibre-LLN-2011-04-06 (coordination: adrien)
 102 mar 10 21:34:51 <jean7491>	  04/05/2011 rewics Rencontres Wallonnes de l'Internet Citoyen – Charleroi     https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BelgianTeam/2011/Rewics-2011-05-04  (coordination: adrien)
 103 mar 10 21:35:11 <clamam>	for Genk, everything is ready; we just need more volunteers
 104 mar 10 21:35:23 <jean7491>	ok
 105 mar 10 21:35:31 <woutervddn>	am I allready on the list?
 106 mar 10 21:36:09 <jean7491>	and dipro ghent, 10/04/2011 
 107 mar 10 21:36:23 <woutervddn>	I am now.. :)
 108 mar 10 21:36:30 <jurgentje>	umm... Foire du Libre... what time is that? (it's a Wed)
 109 mar 10 21:36:32 <clamam>	woutervddn: i will ad your name to the wiki
 110 mar 10 21:37:09 <jean7491>	foire du libre : idd wed. +/- 12 - 19 hr.
 111 mar 10 21:37:14 <woutervddn>	done allready :p
 112 mar 10 21:37:40 <clamam>	ok
 113 mar 10 21:38:04 <jean7491>	jurgentje , if interested, contact adrien 
 114 mar 10 21:38:21 <jurgentje>	okay... but first I'll contact my wife ;) (see if she can miss the car)
 115 mar 10 21:38:35 <jean7491>	ok
 116 mar 10 21:38:43 <JanC>	hm, about Bruges, did you have something to put on the tables jean7491 ?  otherwise we need to buy paper table cloth (I still have some brown one, but probably not enough)
 117 mar 10 21:38:49 *	mongolito404 (~mongolito@83.101.32.104) a rejoint #ubuntu-be
 118 mar 10 21:39:03 <jurgentje>	hi mongolito404 :)
 119 mar 10 21:39:14 <jean7491>	brugge: i've enough tablecloth  
 120 mar 10 21:39:29 <jean7491>	hi mongolito404
 121 mar 10 21:39:38 <jean7491>	other comment about events ?
 122 mar 10 21:40:01 <mongolito404>	hi all, sorry I'm not here for the meeting (I'm just turning on the PC for a few minutes to check email archives)
 123 mar 10 21:40:12 <jean7491>	ok
 124 mar 10 21:41:19 <jean7491>	just 1 comment about events : fosdem, as it is a major event in our calendar, it needs a report in the wiki, much more than dipro !
 125 mar 10 21:41:48 <jean7491>	don't forget !
 126 mar 10 21:42:02 <jean7491>	next topic, promotion
 127 mar 10 21:42:15 <jean7491>	 item #1 t-shirts for Ubuntu-be : update by wouter 
 128 mar 10 21:42:24 <woutervddn>	they are ordered..
 129 mar 10 21:42:44 <woutervddn>	and as a matter of fact they are allready being printed (or else they start tomorrow)
 130 mar 10 21:43:10 <woutervddn>	We agreed they'll start printing allready and just ship once the payment was received :)
 131 mar 10 21:43:31 <woutervddn>	as they still have the screen we got a discount..
 132 mar 10 21:44:15 <woutervddn>	the discount is almost 70 euros..
 133 mar 10 21:44:29 *	mongolito404 est parti (Remote host closed the connection)
 134 mar 10 21:44:38 <jurgentje>	that's € 0,70 per shirt?
 135 mar 10 21:44:54 <JanC>	more or less
 136 mar 10 21:45:12 <woutervddn>	66,64 to be exact.. miscalculated some euro's apperantly..
 137 mar 10 21:45:20 <woutervddn>	indeed..
 138 mar 10 21:45:26 <jean7491>	and will arrive in brugge
 139 mar 10 21:45:33 <JanC>	eh?
 140 mar 10 21:45:35 <woutervddn>	normally they arive with me..
 141 mar 10 21:45:54 <JanC>	good  ☺
 142 mar 10 21:46:05 <woutervddn>	He first assumed they had to go to jan again..
 143 mar 10 21:46:14 <JanC>	woutervddn: you will handle the pre-ordered t-shirts then?
 144 mar 10 21:46:21 <woutervddn>	but I asked them to change the address to my address :)
 145 mar 10 21:46:27 <woutervddn>	yes!
 146 mar 10 21:46:35 <jean7491>	ok difference with invoice
 147 mar 10 21:46:57 <woutervddn>	I've got the envelopes lying here and once they arrive I'll sent them..
 148 mar 10 21:47:14 <jean7491>	then you will delivered the preorders!
 149 mar 10 21:47:23 <jean7491>	(and prepaid)
 150 mar 10 21:48:00 <woutervddn>	I'm going to mail mark tomorrow so he can sent me the invoice numbers of those who paid allready..
 151 mar 10 21:48:20 <woutervddn>	(I'm assuming everyone did allready, but you never know)
 152 mar 10 21:48:29 <jean7491>	idd
 153 mar 10 21:48:44 <jean7491>	other comment about t-shirts ?
 154 mar 10 21:49:22 <jurgentje>	if it's not off topic
 155 mar 10 21:49:23 <woutervddn>	not at the moment I think..
 156 mar 10 21:49:30 <jurgentje>	are there any plans for a webshop?
 157 mar 10 21:49:44 <jean7491>	not yet
 158 mar 10 21:50:03 <massimo21>	isn't it against the guidelines
 159 mar 10 21:50:05 <woutervddn>	I think we can't start with that until we have the organisation talked out :)
 160 mar 10 21:50:26 <jurgentje>	yeah, right. so no more questions about the t-shirts :)
 161 mar 10 21:50:35 <woutervddn>	massimo21: which guidelines?
 162 mar 10 21:51:17 <jean7491>	organization and legal matters (=guidelines i suppose)
 163 mar 10 21:51:38 <massimo21>	that is what i ment
 164 mar 10 21:52:12 <jean7491>	next item #2 promotion material for fairs/events - flyers 2011 
 165 mar 10 21:52:19 <jean7491>	- nothing new, please look at  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BelgianTeam/PromotionMaterial/ProposalsFlyers2011
 166 mar 10 21:52:28 <jean7491>	comment ?
 167 mar 10 21:52:49 <massimo21>	not from me
 168 mar 10 21:53:24 <jurgentje>	I used Massimiliano V2 as basis for a rollout... just my "poging" to align flyer and rollout
 169 mar 10 21:53:41 <jurgentje>	but maybe that's for the next item
 170 mar 10 21:53:55 <jurgentje>	is there a decision on what flyers we're going to print?
 171 mar 10 21:54:22 <jurgentje>	or is it up to the local dipro team to choose?
 172 mar 10 21:54:39 <massimo21>	there will be a poll i supose
 173 mar 10 21:55:24 <jurgentje>	Maybe we should set a timeframe?
 174 mar 10 21:55:55 <jean7491>	no decision yet, but we could ! if no other proposal, a poll end of march ?
 175 mar 10 21:56:25 <jurgentje>	poll end of march... poll deadline april 10? (just a random date)
 176 mar 10 21:56:33 <massimo21>	i am reading now that janb asks me to try whit gray background
 177 mar 10 21:56:59 <massimo21>	so i will do it when i have some spare time
 178 mar 10 21:58:11 <jean7491>	perhaps start a poll 24/03 (meeting in 2 weeks), duration : is 1 week enough ?
 179 mar 10 21:58:45 <jurgentje>	I think so. But we announce the poll well in advance. Maybe also have the poll on the front page of Ubuntu-be?
 180 mar 10 21:58:50 <JanC>	gray background or gray paper? (the latter might be cheaper, if normal printing ink can be used
 181 mar 10 21:59:19 <JanC>	only work for light grey though
 182 mar 10 21:59:22 <massimo21>	if i use a grey backgrund i am supposed to use orange letters
 183 mar 10 22:00:01 <jurgentje>	I think that grey print would be better (then you can have a degradé and white dots)
 184 mar 10 22:00:07 <JanC>	yeah, might be difficult to get proper orange on grey
 185 mar 10 22:00:27 <massimo21>	so i think i will let is like it is
 186 mar 10 22:01:01 <jurgentje>	about the poll: I think ubuntu-be.org would be better than wiki.ubuntu.com/BelgianTeam
 187 mar 10 22:01:06 <JanC>	you can still print the grey, just that grey paper doesn't work so well to print bright orange on
 188 mar 10 22:01:31 <jurgentje>	indeed, you really narrow down your color range if you don't use white papper
 189 mar 10 22:01:42 <jean7491>	JanC : i propose 2 versions on 1 idea, 1 for printing via internet site, another inkt-friendly for eventual home-printing (don't know if needed in dutch?
 190 mar 10 22:02:19 <jean7491>	as we have enough printed flyers
 191 mar 10 22:02:21 <woutervddn>	eeuh.. the greys and orange colors are fixed in the branding guidelines..
 192 mar 10 22:02:31 <jurgentje>	I think we need Dutch and French versions... we want Ubuntu to be "entry level" and not geeky
 193 mar 10 22:02:44 <jurgentje>	English makes it more technical
 194 mar 10 22:02:54 <JanC>	jurgentje: yes, which is why printing the orange on grey paper is difficult
 195 mar 10 22:03:07 <massimo21>	who will translete it to french?
 196 mar 10 22:03:11 <JanC>	it's possible with thick ink, but that's mroe expensive  ;)
 197 mar 10 22:03:13 <jurgentje>	I agree Jan, I'm not in favor of using grey paper
 198 mar 10 22:03:58 <jean7491>	for printing via internet, no difference in number of colors !
 199 mar 10 22:04:08 <JanC>	well, I like using non-plain paper, but it's not practical within the contstraints...  ;)
 200 mar 10 22:04:19 <woutervddn>	I think we've got to try grey first.. you never know what it gives..
 201 mar 10 22:04:37 <woutervddn>	but for printing it yourself it can become a problem..
 202 mar 10 22:04:44 <jurgentje>	if you want special paper... you can use white ink ;) (or metallic paper) :D
 203 mar 10 22:05:00 <jurgentje>	for printing at home, you'll also need a white edge on your flyers
 204 mar 10 22:05:26 <JanC>	for printing elsewhere in small numbers too
 205 mar 10 22:05:42 <jurgentje>	yeah, probably
 206 mar 10 22:05:49 <massimo21>	i prefer the white and light desing above te some wat darker grey
 207 mar 10 22:06:40 <jurgentje>	but then again... that's what polls are good for ;)
 208 mar 10 22:07:10 <massimo21>	what am i supposed to do then?
 209 mar 10 22:07:23 <massimo21>	make it with grey background or not?
 210 mar 10 22:07:28 <jean7491>	btw, in 2009, we received 5000 flyers (at the end in june (2 years)
 211 mar 10 22:07:42 <jurgentje>	make 2 png-files? (if you have the time)
 212 mar 10 22:08:01 <JanC>	they will use a colour laser printer instead of an offset press unless you need a lot of copies (remember it was 66 € for the 2 colours of the shirt and the flyer is 4 colours of ink, and offset plates are more expensive than what they use for screen printing)
 213 mar 10 22:09:34 <jurgentje>	makes sense. I'd add the small extra cost of cutting the borders though... even if it's lasercopy
 214 mar 10 22:09:36 <jean7491>	our 2009 flyers: 5000 for 69 euros + 21% tax
 215 mar 10 22:10:33 <JanC>	jurgentje: yes, they will print on slightly larger paper & cut the borders if you want the colours to bleed off the flyer
 216 mar 10 22:11:10 <JanC>	of course one solution for that is to accomodate printer margins in the design, that way everybody can print it...
 217 mar 10 22:11:14 <jurgentje>	I think this really adds to the look of the flyer. It finishes it off. All designs on the page look better
 218 mar 10 22:11:44 <woutervddn>	jurgentje that depends on the design..
 219 mar 10 22:12:13 <jurgentje>	yep... but come on... bordered design tend to be more static
 220 mar 10 22:12:32 <jean7491>	nobody needs to print it as we have enough stocks
 221 mar 10 22:12:41 <JanC>	it's also more difficult to print at home
 222 mar 10 22:12:44 <jurgentje>	all the existing designs also look good with a small border, but just look great to the border
 223 mar 10 22:12:51 <JanC>	of course, we can have more than one design
 224 mar 10 22:12:59 <jurgentje>	yep, but they are okay with a border too...
 225 mar 10 22:13:15 <JanC>	and people can always print & cut at a photocopy shop
 226 mar 10 22:14:02 <JanC>	if the design is done cleverly so that not too much border needs to be cut...
 227 mar 10 22:14:02 <jurgentje>	idd. (also quite a few people actually have a paper cutter at home or office... )
 228 mar 10 22:14:25 <stefwal>	but some have
 229 mar 10 22:14:28 <JanC>	jurgentje: for small numbers those are useable too, yes
 230 mar 10 22:15:01 <JanC>	and for large numbers you probably don't want to use your own printer for cost reasons
 231 mar 10 22:15:03 <jurgentje>	home printing is small numbers... laser copy center often has cutting capacities
 232 mar 10 22:15:09 <jurgentje>	:)
 233 mar 10 22:15:19 <stefwal>	with just a small fee to pay
 234 mar 10 22:15:29 <jurgentje>	great minds think alike ;)   (maybe crippled brains too, won't elaborate on that)
 235 mar 10 22:15:33 <JanC>	cutting is sometimes free even
 236 mar 10 22:15:38 <jean7491>	i don't understand why you are insisting about home-printing: with 5000 flyers in stock, it is not an issue (at least in dutch)
 237 mar 10 22:16:04 <JanC>	jean7491: home printing can still be useful if you need some flyers on short notice
 238 mar 10 22:16:35 <JanC>	or when it's cheaper than mailing them or whatever
 239 mar 10 22:17:04 <jean7491>	but we have flyers in evry event-box, and more 
 240 mar 10 22:17:12 <jurgentje>	Yeah, I can imagine smaller events (talking for a class) ...
 241 mar 10 22:17:28 <woutervddn>	if I need some flyers quickly I'll still go to a print shop.. my inkjet printer takes 10 minutes for 1 sheet of photo's.. :p
 242 mar 10 22:18:01 <jurgentje>	but I think these few exceptions aren't weighing enough to pose limits on the design
 243 mar 10 22:18:52 <stefwal>	and no one wants to pay to work for free
 244 mar 10 22:18:54 <JanC>	if we have to print on a laser copier, tyhe restrictions are almost the same anyway
 245 mar 10 22:19:21 <jurgentje>	yep, but copy shop has cutting possibilities
 246 mar 10 22:19:35 <jurgentje>	(I prefer little smaller than A5 but cut, than A5 with borders)
 247 mar 10 22:19:37 <jean7491>	but if you have a few days, you ask and it is possible to find a solution, i agree with jurgentje, it is not the priority for the flyer design, but we can make a variant
 248 mar 10 22:20:06 <JanC>	BTW: we can also change the size etc.
 249 mar 10 22:20:20 <JanC>	say, cut 3 flyers from an A4 or whatever
 250 mar 10 22:20:31 <woutervddn>	indeed..
 251 mar 10 22:20:54 <woutervddn>	making a custom 'scraper' style flyer shouldn't be that much work..
 252 mar 10 22:21:04 <jurgentje>	yep, or actually make a more extensive fold-flyer
 253 mar 10 22:22:07 <jean7491>	perhaps have a look at flyer.be to have ideas, and we speak about it next meeting ?
 254 mar 10 22:22:09 <jurgentje>	bottom line: we're going to have a poll with the flyers that exist on that moment...
 255 mar 10 22:22:31 <jurgentje>	right?
 256 mar 10 22:22:54 <jurgentje>	on march 24?
 257 mar 10 22:23:50 <jean7491>	as i propose the poll starting on 24 or 25/03, we can improve and have 2 or 3 designs
 258 mar 10 22:24:12 <woutervddn>	indeed..
 259 mar 10 22:24:30 <jean7491>	we speak about last details next week ?
 260 mar 10 22:24:41 <jean7491>	17/03?
 261 mar 10 22:24:45 <massimo21>	ok
 262 mar 10 22:24:48 <jurgentje>	ok
 263 mar 10 22:24:59 <jean7491>	Item #3 promotion material for fairs/events - rollups 2011
 264 mar 10 22:25:13 <jean7491>	new proposals are in the wiki page https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BelgianTeam/PromotionMaterial/ProposalsRollup2011  please add your comments/preferences in the wiki …
 265 mar 10 22:25:28 <jean7491>	do we need rollups in english? Dutch? French? your comments ?
 266 mar 10 22:25:53 <jurgentje>	I stick with: local language
 267 mar 10 22:26:15 <jurgentje>	so no English (I made it because the proposal was in the footer)
 268 mar 10 22:26:27 <woutervddn>	I'd go for english roll ups..
 269 mar 10 22:27:00 <woutervddn>	a roll up is quite an expensive thing.. we should be able to use them everywhere regardless of the language..
 270 mar 10 22:27:02 <jurgentje>	but that's just me. Reason: we want to promote Ubuntu as "easy". A foreign language (even English) is more difficult
 271 mar 10 22:27:10 <stefwal>	english: too geeky
 272 mar 10 22:27:14 <woutervddn>	(else we can't even use it at fosdem fi..
 273 mar 10 22:27:16 <jurgentje>	aren't we going to make one for every event box?
 274 mar 10 22:28:45 <JanC>	Rollups don't need a lot of text on them anyway
 275 mar 10 22:28:52 <jean7491>	imho, 1 to 3, but not for every event-box, 
 276 mar 10 22:29:07 <woutervddn>	I have to disagree on the fact that english is to geeky..
 277 mar 10 22:29:15 <woutervddn>	and I agree with jan and jean..
 278 mar 10 22:29:32 <jean7491>	2 ideas: logo or "message" ?
 279 mar 10 22:29:35 <stefwal>	woutervddn: you can't imagine how many people lack the knowledge
 280 mar 10 22:29:37 <jurgentje>	what's the price of 1?
 281 mar 10 22:30:06 <jean7491>	likely between 60 and 100 euros?
 282 mar 10 22:30:11 <woutervddn>	stefwal, even our goverment lets us fill in our taxes at a website called taxonweb..
 283 mar 10 22:30:26 <JanC>	prices might differ largely, also depending on quality ("sturdiness")
 284 mar 10 22:30:41 <woutervddn>	imo the rollup should be about the name in the first place and an atractive image..
 285 mar 10 22:30:51 <JanC>	woutervddn: the text on that site is in Dutch though  ☺
 286 mar 10 22:31:06 <stefwal>	JanC: I wouldn't go for the more expensive one
 287 mar 10 22:31:11 <JanC>	woutervddn: +1 on that
 288 mar 10 22:31:12 <woutervddn>	there shouldn't be much text on it.. and the text that is on it should talk about anything technical..
 289 mar 10 22:31:21 <jurgentje>	+1 for most sturdy and quality one
 290 mar 10 22:31:51 <stefwal>	sturdy and quality if rollup is for several years
 291 mar 10 22:32:01 <JanC>	well, maybe we don't need the most expensive ones, but if they break after 3 times use it's also useless  ;)
 292 mar 10 22:32:25 <stefwal>	depends on who is using it
 293 mar 10 22:32:31 <woutervddn>	without a doubt they have to be fairly solid, but I don't think someone of us is going to abuse it -_-'
 294 mar 10 22:32:51 <jurgentje>	... I'm quite clumsy ;)
 295 mar 10 22:33:08 <woutervddn>	also, those are made for companies, they might use the expensive ones every day for a period of several years..
 296 mar 10 22:33:09 <JanC>	they always get abused in some way accidentally sooner or later
 297 mar 10 22:33:09 <stefwal>	jurgentje: I'm happy I haven't been to a fair yet
 298 mar 10 22:33:50 <woutervddn>	janc I suppose so..
 299 mar 10 22:33:51 <stefwal>	the roll up would become a roll out
 300 mar 10 22:33:53 <jurgentje>	hehe...  we were discussing if we wanted text on the rollups
 301 mar 10 22:33:59 <stefwal>	lol
 302 mar 10 22:34:16 <stefwal>	the rollup should be about the logo
 303 mar 10 22:34:19 <woutervddn>	I'd say text: yes but it should only state a minimum of it..
 304 mar 10 22:34:27 <JanC>	I would put "Ubuntu" & "Ubuntu-be.org" on them
 305 mar 10 22:34:38 <jurgentje>	and what's the difference?
 306 mar 10 22:34:40 <JanC>	and the logo
 307 mar 10 22:34:41 <woutervddn>	and it should express feelings instead of function..
 308 mar 10 22:34:52 <JanC>	and maybe a picture
 309 mar 10 22:34:53 <jean7491>	imho logo  + pictograms should be better
 310 mar 10 22:34:55 <stefwal>	totally agree
 311 mar 10 22:34:56 <jurgentje>	I mean... the rollout should make clear what ubuntu-be.org is...
 312 mar 10 22:35:00 <woutervddn>	+1 for jean..
 313 mar 10 22:35:14 <jurgentje>	if you put it on the rollout
 314 mar 10 22:35:28 <stefwal>	people remember what the see, not what they read
 315 mar 10 22:35:29 <jurgentje>	I'm in favor of icons and ubuntu branding too
 316 mar 10 22:35:34 <jean7491>	another thing is to find the right pictograms !
 317 mar 10 22:35:58 <jurgentje>	the brands pages has tons of icons
 318 mar 10 22:36:06 <clamam>	why not using the pictograms that massimo21 used on the flyers
 319 mar 10 22:36:13 <woutervddn>	spreadubuntu also has some icons..
 320 mar 10 22:36:21 <woutervddn>	good point..
 321 mar 10 22:36:23 <jurgentje>	I took those ones on design 6
 322 mar 10 22:36:32 <jurgentje>	the ones of Massimo... to be unifor
 323 mar 10 22:36:33 <jurgentje>	m
 324 mar 10 22:36:56 <jean7491>	pictograms should reflect a message, not only because it is nice 
 325 mar 10 22:37:10 <woutervddn>	for an example of ubuntu banners there are two on the ubuntu brand introduction pdf at page 23
 326 mar 10 22:37:13 <jurgentje>	indeed. I agree on that.
 327 mar 10 22:37:35 <jurgentje>	the icons on the rollup are explained on the flyers - they complement :)
 328 mar 10 22:37:45 <woutervddn>	(ironically 1 of those is about a UDS at la hulpe in belgium -_-'
 329 mar 10 22:37:59 <jurgentje>	do you have an url to the pdf?
 330 mar 10 22:38:47 <woutervddn>	http://design.canonical.com/brand/1.%20Ubuntu%20brand%20introduction.pdf
 331 mar 10 22:39:36 <jean7491>	i propose to look for designs with logo + pictograms or icons (no text) + ubuntu-be.org during the week, and see the result next week ?
 332 mar 10 22:39:48 <woutervddn>	ok..
 333 mar 10 22:39:57 <jurgentje>	so we remove the ones with text from the site?
 334 mar 10 22:40:13 <woutervddn>	I guess we can keep those..
 335 mar 10 22:40:20 <woutervddn>	just try to add new ones without text..
 336 mar 10 22:40:34 <woutervddn>	let the community have a say on this as well..
 337 mar 10 22:40:59 <jean7491>	ok, we see next week for the rollups
 338 mar 10 22:41:18 <jean7491>	Item #4  promotion material for fairs/events - other goodies (mugs, bags, pens, ... )  
 339 mar 10 22:41:18 <jean7491>	a few propositions are in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BelgianTeam/PromotionMaterial/ProposalsGoodies2011
 340 mar 10 22:41:30 <jean7491>	please feel free to comment the proposals and to add designs
 341 mar 10 22:41:53 <acraens>	you could put the software icons in the orange circles in stead of the text
 342 mar 10 22:41:55 <massimo21>	i have to go
 343 mar 10 22:42:01 <massimo21>	good night
 344 mar 10 22:42:06 <jurgentje>	good night massimo21
 345 mar 10 22:42:08 <woutervddn>	good night massimo o/
 346 mar 10 22:42:10 <jean7491>	warddr is not present as initiator, i propose we skip the item
 347 mar 10 22:42:17 <jean7491>	by massimo
 348 mar 10 22:42:33 *	massimo21 (~massimo21@91.176.182.59) a quitté #ubuntu-be
 349 mar 10 22:42:36 <clamam>	by massimo
 350 mar 10 22:42:43 <jean7491>	we continue with topic # 3. update wiki and  web-site
 351 mar 10 22:42:56 <jean7491>	wiki:   update by wouter?
 352 mar 10 22:43:20 <woutervddn>	jurgen, jean and I took a sprint yesterday.
 353 mar 10 22:43:49 <woutervddn>	I posted a report on  the ML
 354 mar 10 22:44:01 <woutervddn>	generally I can say all pages are updated with a few exeptions.
 355 mar 10 22:44:05 <jurgentje>	(and made 207 notes for this meeting) ;)
 356 mar 10 22:44:14 *	woutervddn (~woutervdd@d54C1A7ED.access.telenet.be) a quitté #ubuntu-be ("Leaving")
 357 mar 10 22:44:23 *	woutervddn (~woutervdd@d54C1A7ED.access.telenet.be) a rejoint #ubuntu-be
 358 mar 10 22:44:28 <woutervddn>	sorry.. I dropped out.. :s
 359 mar 10 22:44:38 <woutervddn>	indeed.. way to many notes :p
 360 mar 10 22:44:57 <woutervddn>	some pages couldn't be updated because there has to be desicions made first..
 361 mar 10 22:45:27 <woutervddn>	also we need to find a way to let the website and the wiki work together..
 362 mar 10 22:45:36 <woutervddn>	some stuff on the wiki should go on the site..
 363 mar 10 22:45:47 <woutervddn>	like those oslesslaptopshops..
 364 mar 10 22:46:01 <woutervddn>	it's a great idea but on the wiki nobody will think about looking for it.
 365 mar 10 22:46:04 <JanC>	Oh, BTW: next Tuesday is the next LoCo Council meeting and I put the question for buying promo equipment from Canonical on the agenda
 366 mar 10 22:46:30 <woutervddn>	+ putting it on the website might be a jump to add those companies to the commercial links section..
 367 mar 10 22:46:43 <woutervddn>	janc: nice to hear that ^^
 368 mar 10 22:47:00 <JanC>	if anybody else wants to be around for that meeting...
 369 mar 10 22:47:34 <clamam>	sorry, i must go now, bye and good night
 370 mar 10 22:47:35 <jurgentje>	JanC, is it open for all? (where? what time?)
 371 mar 10 22:47:38 <jurgentje>	bye clamam
 372 mar 10 22:47:40 <woutervddn>	I've got exams then so I'll have to pass..
 373 mar 10 22:47:40 <jean7491>	what's the time of the meeting ?
 374 mar 10 22:47:44 <woutervddn>	bye clamam..
 375 mar 10 22:47:52 *	clamam (~claudio@d51A51C86.access.telenet.be) a quitté #ubuntu-be
 376 mar 10 22:47:53 <JanC>	https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoCouncil/Agenda
 377 mar 10 22:47:54 <jean7491>	bye clamam
 378 mar 10 22:48:00 <JanC>	and it's open for all
 379 mar 10 22:48:24 <JanC>	21h UTC in #ubuntu-meeting
 380 mar 10 22:48:37 <jurgentje>	21 UTC ... that's 22u Brussels?
 381 mar 10 22:49:29 <JanC>	yes
 382 mar 10 22:49:43 <JanC>	there is not much on the agenda, so shouldn't take too long
 383 mar 10 22:49:57 <jurgentje>	possibly I'll be there... can't promise.
 384 mar 10 22:50:07 <jean7491>	it is on my agenda, hopefully i will be there !
 385 mar 10 22:51:00 <acraens>	i've got to go 2, got night
 386 mar 10 22:51:07 <stefwal>	have to go, good night
 387 mar 10 22:51:14 <jurgentje>	bye
 388 mar 10 22:51:17 <jean7491>	wouter, writing in wiki is easy, not in the website , for cpmmon people like me
 389 mar 10 22:51:35 <jean7491>	bye acraens and stefwal
 390 mar 10 22:51:40 <woutervddn>	indeed.. but that's just because the website isn't open to normal people..
 391 mar 10 22:51:50 *	acraens est parti (Quit: Page closed)
 392 mar 10 22:51:59 <woutervddn>	it has a similar editor as the wiki so that isn't the problem.
 393 mar 10 22:52:05 <stefwal>	\part #ubuntu-be cya
 394 mar 10 22:52:15 <woutervddn>	I think the major problem is to keep our site save for flaws etc...
 395 mar 10 22:52:32 *	stefwal (~stefaan@94-226-239-19.access.telenet.be) a quitté #ubuntu-be ("cya")
 396 mar 10 22:52:33 <woutervddn>	we also found a double on the wiki pages apperantly we have 2 pages for promotion material.. @ jean7491: which one should we keep? I'll merge them later on..
 397 mar 10 22:52:37 <JanC>	I think some restrictions on who/what is added is appropriate on the site
 398 mar 10 22:52:47 <woutervddn>	janC: I agree..
 399 mar 10 22:52:58 <jurgentje>	but it should be clear where to find what...
 400 mar 10 22:52:59 <woutervddn>	but as jurgen said it "the wiki should be about knowledge"
 401 mar 10 22:53:15 <jurgentje>	and avoid having information that is on both... quickly becomes maintenance hell
 402 mar 10 22:54:08 <jean7491>	wiki is also used for organizing events/activities
 403 mar 10 22:54:48 <woutervddn>	it just seemed like there were quite a few pages that belong on the site instead of the wiki..
 404 mar 10 22:54:50 <jurgentje>	okay... and the website should contain the "information" that has a more static feel
 405 mar 10 22:55:07 <jurgentje>	maybe give some examples...
 406 mar 10 22:55:08 <woutervddn>	yet another remark was that we should stimulate to upload content to flickr using the ubuntube tag..
 407 mar 10 22:55:36 <jean7491>	@ wouter : imho promotion is a section, with at least 2 sub-sections, material and promotional activities ...
 408 mar 10 22:56:29 <jean7491>	material sould be about material, flyers, ... + files presentations and other things
 409 mar 10 22:57:09 <jurgentje>	https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BelgianTeam/ComputerFairs/Promotion is one
 410 mar 10 22:57:17 <jurgentje>	https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BelgianTeam/PromotionMaterial is second
 411 mar 10 22:57:23 <jurgentje>	are very close in content
 412 mar 10 22:58:20 <jurgentje>	should be the same page. Content has to be merged. Don't you agree?
 413 mar 10 22:58:23 <jean7491>	could be merge in BelgianTeam/Promotion/Material
 414 mar 10 22:58:53 <jean7491>	or BelgianTeam/PromotionMaterial
 415 mar 10 22:59:18 <jurgentje>	I prefer the last one (as it already exists... only creates one stale link)
 416 mar 10 22:59:43 <woutervddn>	I don't really care where it goes, but 2 pages looks like asking for troubles :)
 417 mar 10 22:59:43 <jean7491>	and a link to spreadubuntu could be added
 418 mar 10 22:59:51 <woutervddn>	good point jean..
 419 mar 10 23:00:03 <jurgentje>	hehe... and the brand guidelines too?
 420 mar 10 23:00:30 <JanC>	yes, certainly
 421 mar 10 23:00:42 <jean7491>	idd ! origin of the 2 pages is historical and related to developments
 422 mar 10 23:00:49 <woutervddn>	lol yeah.. maybe.. but those have like 17 seperate documents and some aren't exactly clear :p
 423 mar 10 23:01:29 <jurgentje>	okay... I'll do a cleanup of those 2 pages.
 424 mar 10 23:02:00 <jurgentje>	I just hope I won't forget a link - I'll have the "empty page" showing a link to the new page :)
 425 mar 10 23:02:09 <woutervddn>	1 last comment I have is the fact that pointing certain people to take care of 1 specific page (and its child pages) would make the wiki be more up to date..
 426 mar 10 23:02:46 <woutervddn>	a number of nice pages are "stranded" now because the person who maintained it has resigned..
 427 mar 10 23:02:54 <woutervddn>	BelgianTeam/PressCoverage for instance..
 428 mar 10 23:03:22 <jean7491>	idd, i know, but who is volunteer ?
 429 mar 10 23:04:03 <jurgentje>	well... I'm in favor of: no volunteer = no page. Now, it's like there's no press coverage since 2007... It's like Ubuntu (or Ubuntu-be) is dead :s
 430 mar 10 23:04:35 <woutervddn>	I am willing to take a few pages, but not all of them.. :)
 431 mar 10 23:04:41 <jean7491>	maintainig of the wiki should be linked to tasks in ubuntu-be ...
 432 mar 10 23:04:53 <woutervddn>	maybe having seperate teams that work fairly indepent might help (see the organization..)
 433 mar 10 23:04:53 <JanC>	well, don't remove the page, but certainly add a warning it's unmaintained...
 434 mar 10 23:05:12 <woutervddn>	janc it s in the report as wel :)
 435 mar 10 23:05:19 <jean7491>	press coverage is imho not necessary in the wiki 
 436 mar 10 23:05:41 <jean7491>	and an outdated page gives a bad impression
 437 mar 10 23:05:55 <jurgentje>	I agree on that one... Google gives a better press coverage :)
 438 mar 10 23:06:00 <JanC>	still, no good idea to throw that information away
 439 mar 10 23:06:38 <jean7491>	don't see why, except for historical reason ?
 440 mar 10 23:08:03 <JanC>	I would certainly keep the info on it somewhere for historical reasons
 441 mar 10 23:08:47 <JanC>	I agree the page should not be linked to as a source for current information if it's not maintained
 442 mar 10 23:09:22 <jurgentje>	well, if it has to stay, it shouldn't have a link on the front page...
 443 mar 10 23:09:46 <jurgentje>	oops, too late. JanC +1 no link
 444 mar 10 23:09:57 <JanC>	maybe linked from an "attic" page, and with a warning on top...
 445 mar 10 23:10:16 <woutervddn>	legacy..
 446 mar 10 23:10:46 <jurgentje>	I remove the link from the front page right away?
 447 mar 10 23:10:50 <jean7491>	btw the title "belgian press coverage" in the home page should be "belgian press" for press release (and coverage)
 448 mar 10 23:11:13 <woutervddn>	good point..
 449 mar 10 23:11:19 <jurgentje>	Is someone going to update the page, and put the link on an appropriate place?
 450 mar 10 23:11:38 <woutervddn>	I can do it tomorrow.. :)
 451 mar 10 23:11:53 <woutervddn>	I'm planning some minor changes that's still in my notes..
 452 mar 10 23:12:16 <jean7491>	next ?
 453 mar 10 23:12:39 <woutervddn>	nothing else for the wiki I guess.. so next topic I guess..
 454 mar 10 23:12:59 <jurgentje>	ummm
 455 mar 10 23:13:22 <jurgentje>	the discussion about pages belonging on u-be.org instead of the wiki?
 456 mar 10 23:13:46 <woutervddn>	that's something we should talk about when pierre (mongolito404) is here..
 457 mar 10 23:13:54 <jurgentje>	okay.
 458 mar 10 23:14:11 <jurgentje>	makes sense
 459 mar 10 23:14:12 <woutervddn>	I'll make bugs for those pages as well, but atm we can't make real progress with those pages I think..
 460 mar 10 23:14:35 <jurgentje>	okay. We take it to the next meeting? (or a next meeting)
 461 mar 10 23:14:52 <woutervddn>	uhu
 462 mar 10 23:15:10 <jean7491>	ok, about website ? bug #718482 - french translation is ready to be used
 463 mar 10 23:15:22 <jean7491>	for the website
 464 mar 10 23:15:44 <jean7491>	no other comment from my side
 465 mar 10 23:16:15 <woutervddn>	jean, I'll add it right away :)
 466 mar 10 23:16:41 <jean7491>	thx, other point for website ?
 467 mar 10 23:17:12 <woutervddn>	apart from those pages that belong there not really..
 468 mar 10 23:17:27 <jean7491>	or we start with the next topic ...
 469 mar 10 23:17:44 <jean7491>	next topic # 4. things 
 470 mar 10 23:18:00 <jean7491>	and item # 1 -  Ubuntu-be needs a structure and an organization
 471 mar 10 23:18:09 <jean7491>	a few ideas ...
 472 mar 10 23:18:15 <jean7491>	volunteers willing to be active in promoting ubuntu need support of ubuntu-be
 473 mar 10 23:18:21 <jean7491>	other people have questions about the value of ubuntu-be as possible partner
 474 mar 10 23:18:31 <jean7491>	 imho, we firstly need an organization with a leading group which can coordinate our activities, decide about priorities, take decisions when needed, including about finances, and control the goods/material belonging to ubuntu-be
 475 mar 10 23:18:44 <jean7491>	 as a second step, we need to be recognized as an association and have a legal existence (as nonprofit association?), at least in financial, insurance and public relation matters 
 476 mar 10 23:18:56 <jurgentje>	I have the impression that there is a growing consensus to have a VZW/ASBL?
 477 mar 10 23:19:23 <jean7491>	 imho, we whould start a discussion ... with the 1st step, vzw is the 2d
 478 mar 10 23:19:28 <JanC>	only if everybody uderstands the extra cost of that  ;)
 479 mar 10 23:19:38 *	selckin est parti (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 480 mar 10 23:19:58 <jean7491>	2 questions : who is everybody ? ...
 481 mar 10 23:20:03 <woutervddn>	good point of janC..
 482 mar 10 23:20:12 <jean7491>	extra cost is more extra charge
 483 mar 10 23:20:43 <JanC>	I also mean the cost as in extra work that needs to be done
 484 mar 10 23:20:51 <woutervddn>	I do agree with jean, a leading team is first step..
 485 mar 10 23:21:02 <woutervddn>	jup that also..
 486 mar 10 23:21:21 <JanC>	and +1 about the 2 steps
 487 mar 10 23:21:31 <jurgentje>	Okay... I'm by far not a regular in the Ubuntu-be meetings (holidays is easier for me)
 488 mar 10 23:21:52 <woutervddn>	can I propose that we make a page that talks about the idea and then organise a poll to see how the community thinks about it? or is that a bad idea?
 489 mar 10 23:22:02 <jurgentje>	but you know who are the "regulars" ... would there be enough comitters to actually have a "council" ?
 490 mar 10 23:22:28 <JanC>	woutervddn: it's not something to decide with a poll but by those who organize things
 491 mar 10 23:22:30 <jurgentje>	I don't think that's a good idea... we need to know who is willing to commit
 492 mar 10 23:23:03 <woutervddn>	janC, I agree on that, but I'd do that to see how the community thinks about it..
 493 mar 10 23:23:03 <jurgentje>	if 1000 people say we should start a BVBA and sell custom made computers... but nobody does it ;)
 494 mar 10 23:23:16 <woutervddn>	no need for a council if the whole community drops out after it..
 495 mar 10 23:23:43 <jurgentje>	community won't drop out, unless a community makes "anti-community" decisions
 496 mar 10 23:23:56 <jurgentje>	a council (not community) makes decission
 497 mar 10 23:23:57 <woutervddn>	final decision has to be made by those who are the heart of u-be, that's without a doubt..
 498 mar 10 23:24:00 <jean7491>	who is the whole community ?
 499 mar 10 23:24:12 <jurgentje>	hehe... the mailinglist?
 500 mar 10 23:24:21 <jurgentje>	that's really vague.
 501 mar 10 23:24:23 <woutervddn>	:p that kinda covers it indeed..
 502 mar 10 23:24:26 <JanC>	certainly not only the ML
 503 mar 10 23:24:54 <woutervddn>	are there people who aren't on the ML then?
 504 mar 10 23:24:55 <jean7491>	ubuntu-users ? launchpad members ? 
 505 mar 10 23:25:11 <woutervddn>	aren't those subscribed on the ML as well?
 506 mar 10 23:25:23 <jurgentje>	umm... all the Ubuntu-users we see on dipro?
 507 mar 10 23:25:45 <jurgentje>	they're also the Belgian Ubuntu community
 508 mar 10 23:25:54 <woutervddn>	I don't think we should take those into account for an internal question as this..
 509 mar 10 23:25:59 <jurgentje>	the support points?
 510 mar 10 23:26:13 <JanC>	and there are also people on the forums etc.
 511 mar 10 23:26:15 <jurgentje>	nope, off course not. That's impossible.
 512 mar 10 23:26:34 <jurgentje>	but we must keep in mind that they are "the community" too
 513 mar 10 23:27:14 <woutervddn>	how do you guys feel about indepent groups with their own responsibility?
 514 mar 10 23:27:24 <jurgentje>	the last few years, the discussion about more structure has been on the ML a few times...
 515 mar 10 23:27:35 <JanC>	but i think we better get together some time to discuss things first before we decide who we need to ask...  ;)
 516 mar 10 23:27:42 <jurgentje>	I don't remember a single time where there was no great consensus in favor.
 517 mar 10 23:27:50 <woutervddn>	like: eventsteam, socialmediateam, educationteam, ...
 518 mar 10 23:28:21 <jurgentje>	local teams are great... once we have a core team who decides what teams we want to have... and who will also recruit
 519 mar 10 23:28:38 <jurgentje>	I also think a IRL meetup would be nice for this
 520 mar 10 23:28:59 <woutervddn>	IRL is only beneficial if we do some research first I guess..
 521 mar 10 23:29:11 <jurgentje>	agree
 522 mar 10 23:29:53 <jurgentje>	anyone read the book "the art of community" ?
 523 mar 10 23:30:16 <woutervddn>	nowp..
 524 mar 10 23:30:26 <jean7491>	imho the community in general is lead by active members, and they have the responsibility to go on with studying and presenting projectes, and one day, we will have to speak about who has the right to vote ... 
 525 mar 10 23:30:29 <jurgentje>	the pdf can be downloaded...
 526 mar 10 23:30:38 <woutervddn>	jean7491: does everyone agree with the birth of a real council?
 527 mar 10 23:30:54 <jean7491>	who is everyone ?
 528 mar 10 23:30:54 <jurgentje>	you'll never have "everyone"
 529 mar 10 23:31:06 <woutervddn>	everyone that matters..
 530 mar 10 23:31:17 <jurgentje>	do you see opposers?
 531 mar 10 23:31:23 <woutervddn>	I don't..
 532 mar 10 23:31:27 <woutervddn>	but I might miss something..
 533 mar 10 23:32:03 *	selckin (~selckin@unaffiliated/selckin) a rejoint #ubuntu-be
 534 mar 10 23:32:08 <woutervddn>	jean, how are we going to see who has to vote and who doesn't?
 535 mar 10 23:32:13 <jurgentje>	When I looked into the mailinglist the last times, there were some objections - but those were basically the fear of bad decisions
 536 mar 10 23:32:18 <JanC>	I think nobody (here) opposes an ubuntu-be council, but we'll have to discuss the tasks it holds & maybe the structure...
 537 mar 10 23:32:32 <jean7491>	we can launch the idea to create a council in the m-l (in the report)and see if someone reacts ?
 538 mar 10 23:32:52 <woutervddn>	good idea..
 539 mar 10 23:33:07 <woutervddn>	I think writing a mission statement for the council is a good start..
 540 mar 10 23:33:24 <woutervddn>	having the way they should operate on paper makes things clearer for everyone..
 541 mar 10 23:33:58 <jurgentje>	ietherpad.com/ubuntu-be   <- trying on a mission statement right now?
 542 mar 10 23:34:21 <woutervddn>	:p not atm.. but if you save it I'll look in to it tomorrow.. :)
 543 mar 10 23:34:35 <jurgentje>	I don't have anything yet :p
 544 mar 10 23:34:45 <woutervddn>	aah.. :p
 545 mar 10 23:34:52 <woutervddn>	save it anyways :p
 546 mar 10 23:35:00 <jurgentje>	:)
 547 mar 10 23:35:07 <jean7491>	did you read par. 3 in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BelgianTeam/TeamOrganization
 548 mar 10 23:35:07 <jurgentje>	ietherpad stays online...
 549 mar 10 23:35:40 <woutervddn>	jean, only a part of it. It is a great guidance though.. very complete at firs sight..
 550 mar 10 23:35:48 <woutervddn>	*first
 551 mar 10 23:35:57 <jurgentje>	yeah, it's a great starting point
 552 mar 10 23:36:23 <woutervddn>	I also believe those who have a 'big' function should sign some kind of contract (like code of conduct)..
 553 mar 10 23:36:45 <woutervddn>	just to make sure they do what is expected..
 554 mar 10 23:37:32 <jurgentje>	yeah... and to "limit" the job. People only have to commit for (f.e.) 2 years... and after that, the question can be asked again (even to the same person)
 555 mar 10 23:37:35 *	ttl- est parti (Quit: Goodbye)
 556 mar 10 23:38:23 <jean7491>	there are of course details ... but first a mission statement
 557 mar 10 23:38:36 <woutervddn>	xD we can hold elections and have an interim council and stuff.. got to keep the belgian honnor high..
 558 mar 10 23:38:43 <jurgentje>	lol
 559 mar 10 23:39:03 <jurgentje>	let's split Ubuntu! (Vilvoorde stays with Ubuntu-Vl) ;)
 560 mar 10 23:39:07 <woutervddn>	indeed jean..
 561 mar 10 23:39:08 <jurgentje>	j/k
 562 mar 10 23:39:15 <woutervddn>	:p
 563 mar 10 23:39:37 <woutervddn>	should we make a timeframe?
 564 mar 10 23:39:50 <woutervddn>	It would be sad if this idea turns to dust again..
 565 mar 10 23:39:53 <JanC>	woutervddn: I don't think explicit signing is needed, it should be *implicit* by accepting a "big function"
 566 mar 10 23:39:57 <jurgentje>	http://www.artofcommunityonline.org/2009/09/18/the-art-of-community-now-available-for-free-download/    <= absolutely a must read!
 567 mar 10 23:40:29 <woutervddn>	janC, I think like that, you think like that, and I'm sure jurgen and jean do the same.. but does everyone else?
 568 mar 10 23:41:13 <woutervddn>	jurgen, I'll read it for sure ^^
 569 mar 10 23:41:15 <jean7491>	don't worry now about details 
 570 mar 10 23:41:16 <JanC>	woutervddn: you can put it in the rules, no need for explicit signing  ;)
 571 mar 10 23:41:25 <woutervddn>	true..
 572 mar 10 23:41:36 <jurgentje>	but I think that's detail....
 573 mar 10 23:41:51 <woutervddn>	I suppose so.. :)
 574 mar 10 23:41:58 <jurgentje>	first we need to know what the commitment/inspiration is...
 575 mar 10 23:42:12 <JanC>	anyway, it's getting late...
 576 mar 10 23:42:30 <jurgentje>	we're going to set a date to pick this up?
 577 mar 10 23:42:49 <jurgentje>	I'd even suggest to have this (weekly) meeting only tackle this point
 578 mar 10 23:43:13 <jurgentje>	the week before, all other stuff could be taken up
 579 mar 10 23:43:22 <jurgentje>	(like dipro etc)
 580 mar 10 23:44:07 <jean7491>	do we continue first on the mission statement and after on a "calendar"?
 581 mar 10 23:44:10 <woutervddn>	I'm not sure about weekly meeting for this atm..
 582 mar 10 23:44:40 <woutervddn>	we first need that mission statement..
 583 mar 10 23:44:48 <jurgentje>	are we doing the mission statement now? Or are we all going to brainstorm on that brainstorm?
 584 mar 10 23:44:49 <woutervddn>	afterwards i totally agree
 585 mar 10 23:45:01 <jurgentje>	I would suggest we try to have the team up by September....
 586 mar 10 23:45:11 <jurgentje>	Mission statement ready by the end of Easter holiday?
 587 mar 10 23:45:17 <woutervddn>	not now.. :p it's getting late.. I've got a study scheduale to follow :p
 588 mar 10 23:45:18 <jurgentje>	beginning of
 589 mar 10 23:45:44 <woutervddn>	first serious draft of it should be possible then..
 590 mar 10 23:46:14 <jurgentje>	that's our target? have the mission statement ready by Easter?
 591 mar 10 23:46:24 <jean7491>	i suggest to work in the week on shortening the mission statement http://ietherpad.com/ubuntu-be and see next meeting ?
 592 mar 10 23:46:25 <woutervddn>	definite version should be agreed on by everyone who's going to be in the council..
 593 mar 10 23:46:39 <jurgentje>	24/04
 594 mar 10 23:46:40 <woutervddn>	ok..
 595 mar 10 23:47:00 <jurgentje>	I'll try... can't promise
 596 mar 10 23:47:41 <woutervddn>	there should be big lines by then but that can't be so hard.. the exact content is the biggest work..
 597 mar 10 23:48:04 <jurgentje>	indeed.
 598 mar 10 23:49:16 <jean7491>	just to start with a short mission statement and the rest will follow
 599 mar 10 23:49:17 <jurgentje>	maybe we can set a date around 24/04 for an IRL meetup? (can be at my place... I live in Vilvoorde)
 600 mar 10 23:49:57 <jurgentje>	I really think this kind of stuff works better if you're around a table
 601 mar 10 23:50:10 <woutervddn>	I agree on  that.. but then again, who should be there?
 602 mar 10 23:50:48 *	woutervddn thinks this is going to be a lot harder then we think..
 603 mar 10 23:50:49 <jurgentje>	well... we make it public on the ML... and everyone who considers comitting... (so not the commenters)
 604 mar 10 23:51:22 <jean7491>	we start publication with irc report ...
 605 mar 10 23:51:22 <jurgentje>	comitting to the council, or a taskforce (one of the other teams)
 606 mar 10 23:51:26 <woutervddn>	jean & jan, who are the 'seniors' who are still active?
 607 mar 10 23:51:38 <jurgentje>	pierre?
 608 mar 10 23:52:11 <jean7491>	i'm not senior in u-be ! only since 2009 !
 609 mar 10 23:52:17 <jean7491>	mark
 610 mar 10 23:52:21 <jurgentje>	:)
 611 mar 10 23:52:42 <woutervddn>	mark and pierre than?
 612 mar 10 23:52:50 <woutervddn>	or any others?
 613 mar 10 23:53:38 <jean7491>	1st irc report with the info, z. next meeting, more about short mission statement and idea for meeting, ...
 614 mar 10 23:53:51 <jean7491>	and see if any reaction
 615 mar 10 23:54:22 <woutervddn>	so we know what to do next week :p
 616 mar 10 23:54:27 <jurgentje>	I think it would be a good idea to actually take up this issue
 617 mar 10 23:54:35 <jurgentje>	in a seperate mail on the ML
 618 mar 10 23:54:59 <woutervddn>	jurgentje, make sure you've got the big lines set by then..
 619 mar 10 23:55:11 <woutervddn>	else people won't catch it on the ML..
 620 mar 10 23:55:19 <jean7491>	separate mail ok, but after next meeting
 621 mar 10 23:55:25 <jurgentje>	agree.
 622 mar 10 23:55:26 <woutervddn>	make sure the structure of the mission statement itself is clear allready..
 623 mar 10 23:55:51 <woutervddn>	(it's like code, if you don't set a certain way to code the code gets messy)
 624 mar 10 23:56:48 <jurgentje>	Okay... I'll keep that on the ietherpad... (open to all to view/edit)
 625 mar 10 23:57:03 <jurgentje>	it's possible to scroll back in time, is quite handy.
 626 mar 10 23:57:18 <jean7491>	you see my opinion there
 627 mar 10 23:57:43 <jean7491>	any comment or we jump next item ?
 628 mar 10 23:57:53 <jurgentje>	next item?
 629 mar 10 23:58:01 <woutervddn>	it's about time to go to next item I guess :p
 630 mar 10 23:58:16 <jurgentje>	*jump*
 631 mar 10 23:58:26 <jean7491>	 item # 2 - possibility of a meeting IRL ? (Meet & Drink?) - why not in vlvoorde ?
 632 mar 10 23:58:26 *	jurgentje is hopping like a bunny
 633 mar 10 23:58:32 <jurgentje>	lol!
 634 mar 10 23:58:49 <jurgentje>	okay. April 25? (Easter Monday - last day of holiday)
 635 mar 10 23:59:30 <jean7491>	wait for the day ! are there other questions not in the agenda ?
 636 mar 10 23:59:53 <jurgentje>	I would like to know the scope:
 637 mar 10 23:59:55 <woutervddn>	I can't think of any..
 638 mar 11 00:00:04 <jurgentje>	is this only for "petit comité" (less than 10 persons)
 639 mar 11 00:00:22 <jurgentje>	or is this an event for the whole ML with subscribing?
 640 mar 11 00:00:41 <jurgentje>	(possibly having to look for an outdoors café to meet then)
 641 mar 11 00:02:06 <woutervddn>	that's a good question jurgen :p
 642 mar 11 00:02:25 <woutervddn>	afaik there was an ubuntu-be bbq in stekene in 2009 or so..
 643 mar 11 00:02:33 <jean7491>	that depends of the announcement: with or without beer, or only for active people, or for who is willing to work with ?
 644 mar 11 00:02:36 <woutervddn>	that was one of the last IRL meeting I think :p
 645 mar 11 00:03:30 <jean7491>	imho there were more volunteers in a'pen on 26-27/02 !
 646 mar 11 00:03:31 <jurgentje>	bottom line: is this a social gathering or a work-meeting?
 647 mar 11 00:03:56 <jurgentje>	(both are needed, I think)
 648 mar 11 00:04:10 <jurgentje>	otoh ... a council could organize a social meeting ;)
 649 mar 11 00:05:08 <woutervddn>	indeed jurgen..
 650 mar 11 00:05:12 <jean7491>	imho, we spoke about work-meeting with an aim, social meeting is for later or another meeting
 651 mar 11 00:05:30 <woutervddn>	indeed..
 652 mar 11 00:05:33 <jurgentje>	I know, but I remember the mailinglist originally talking about social
 653 mar 11 00:05:40 <woutervddn>	work before fun.. else we never get thing done..
 654 mar 11 00:05:45 <jurgentje>	and the topic of the meeting is; what's alive on the ML
 655 mar 11 00:05:59 <jurgentje>	topic on the agenda, I mean
 656 mar 11 00:06:18 <woutervddn>	I think it's better to make it a serious meeting first..
 657 mar 11 00:06:26 <jurgentje>	I agree.
 658 mar 11 00:06:31 <jean7491>	+1
 659 mar 11 00:06:38 <woutervddn>	the social aspect is irrelevant to the future structure of U-be imho
 660 mar 11 00:07:14 <jean7491>	i propose to end with next irc meeting ? on thursday 17/03/2011 at 21 h.
 661 mar 11 00:07:54 <woutervddn>	I should be able to get there, but it might not be the whole meeting (exams on the 18th)
 662 mar 11 00:08:37 <JanC>	+1 on a serious IRL meeting being more important now (and of course everybody can organise wmall social meetups whenever they want...)
 663 mar 11 00:08:37 <jean7491>	and we can mail between us about the organization issue,    of course and thanks wouter
 664 mar 11 00:09:10 <JanC>	if it's easier for people to have ameetign on Friday because of exams, we can maybe change too?
 665 mar 11 00:09:26 <woutervddn>	I'm the only one I guess..
 666 mar 11 00:09:26 <JanC>	if that fits for the others of course
 667 mar 11 00:09:31 <jurgentje>	I actually prefer fridays (don't have to work on Sat)
 668 mar 11 00:10:27 <woutervddn>	downside of having 3 exam periods I guess :)
 669 mar 11 00:10:43 <woutervddn>	but both are fine for me :)
 670 mar 11 00:10:47 <jean7491>	it is up to you to say when we meet ! 
 671 mar 11 00:11:32 <woutervddn>	well friday is more easy for me, but I don't know about the rest..
 672 mar 11 00:11:44 <woutervddn>	others might expect it to be on thursday..
 673 mar 11 00:11:56 <jean7491>	jan ? 
 674 mar 11 00:12:18 <woutervddn>	ow wait..
 675 mar 11 00:12:44 <woutervddn>	the 18th I've got exam in the afternoon, so I guess thursday is fine then :)
 676 mar 11 00:12:52 <woutervddn>	(at least for me)
 677 mar 11 00:13:02 <JanC>	next week Thursday & Friday are both okay for me
 678 mar 11 00:13:48 <woutervddn>	2 meetings then? :p
 679 mar 11 00:14:05 <jean7491>	if jurgentje wish, we can change for friday ?
 680 mar 11 00:14:11 <jurgentje>	okay. I prefer that :)
 681 mar 11 00:14:42 <jean7491>	if no question, ... last topic, next irc meeting ? on friday 18/03/2011 at 21 h.
 682 mar 11 00:14:58 <jurgentje>	great :)
 683 mar 11 00:15:02 <jurgentje>	I've marked it
 684 mar 11 00:15:12 <jean7491>	end of meeting - thanks to all for your participation, have a good night !