Ubuntu Wiki

   1 mar 18 21:00:53 <jean7491>	hi to all, who is here for the meeting ?
   2 mar 18 21:01:12 <jurgentje>	I am
   3 mar 18 21:02:09 <JanC>	o/
   4 mar 18 21:03:15 <jean7491>	hi JanC Jurgentje
   5 mar 18 21:03:23 <jurgentje>	hi
   6 mar 18 21:05:09 <woutervddn>	I'm here..
   7 mar 18 21:05:26 <woutervddn>	sorry, was writing in the BelgianTeam/TeamOrganization :)
   8 mar 18 21:05:32 <woutervddn>	hi all o/
   9 mar 18 21:06:16 <jean7491>	hi woutervddn , anyone else for the meeting ?
  10 mar 18 21:06:28 <jurgentje>	I've been reading the leadership pages on Ubuntu.com
  11 mar 18 21:08:52 <jean7491>	anyone else for the meeting ?
  12 mar 18 21:09:11 <jurgentje>	I guess that's it for starters
  13 mar 18 21:09:25 <jean7491>	let's hope ! ...
  14 mar 18 21:09:32 <jean7491>	i hope this meeting will be short as i have the flu
  15 mar 18 21:09:41 <jean7491>	topic #1.  past and future events
  16 mar 18 21:09:49 <jean7491>	item #1 dipro fair brugge – 13/03/2011
  17 mar 18 21:09:50 <woutervddn>	ow.. I hope you get better soon then..
  18 mar 18 21:10:16 <jean7491>	thx
  19 mar 18 21:10:23 <jean7491>	see report and pictures in wiki  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BelgianTeam/ComputerFairs/Brugge_2011-03-13
  20 mar 18 21:10:44 <jean7491>	JanC other comment ?
  21 mar 18 21:12:03 <jean7491>	if no comment, item #2 dipro fair charleroi – 20/03/2011
  22 mar 18 21:12:09 <jean7491>	https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BelgianTeam/ComputerFairs/Charleroi_2011-03-20
  23 mar 18 21:12:15 <jean7491>	adrien and sylvain are in charge., everything should be ok
  24 mar 18 21:12:35 <JanC>	Sylvain received my enveloppe yesterday
  25 mar 18 21:13:04 <JanC>	I sent some CDs, stickers, lanyards and pins
  26 mar 18 21:13:27 <jean7491>	ok, nice, he already received other material and t-shirts from nero
  27 mar 18 21:15:07 <jean7491>	item #3 dipro fair mechelen – 27/03/2011
  28 mar 18 21:15:18 <jean7491>	nero will coordinate the booth
  29 mar 18 21:15:36 <jurgentje>	(and he does a great job doing it) :)
  30 mar 18 21:16:07 <jean7491>	min. team is already in the wiki (3)
  31 mar 18 21:16:37 <jean7491>	of course additional volunteers are needed and will be welcome !
  32 mar 18 21:16:45 <jean7491>	https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BelgianTeam/ComputerFairs/Mechelen_2011-03-27
  33 mar 18 21:17:20 <jean7491>	thx nero ! other comment ?
  34 mar 18 21:18:18 <jean7491>	if no comment, item #4 – next events
  35 mar 18 21:18:18 <jean7491>	  03/04/2011 dipro genk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BelgianTeam/ComputerFairs/Genk_2011-04-03 (coordination: claudio)
  36 mar 18 21:18:44 <jean7491>	06/04/2011 The Foire du Libre – Louvain-la-Neuve https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BelgianTeam/2011/FoireDuLibre-LLN-2011-04-06 (coordination: adrien)
  37 mar 18 21:18:52 <jean7491>	 04/05/2011 rewics Rencontres Wallonnes de l'Internet Citoyen – Charleroi     https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BelgianTeam/2011/Rewics-2011-05-04  (coordination: adrien)
  38 mar 18 21:19:05 <jean7491>	comment about the events ?
  39 mar 18 21:20:39 <JanC>	other than saying thanks to Adrien & Sylvain for doing this, no  ☺
  40 mar 18 21:20:57 <jean7491>	idd
  41 mar 18 21:21:08 <jean7491>	next topic # 2. Promotion
  42 mar 18 21:21:17 <jean7491>	item #1 t-shirts for Ubuntu-be :
  43 mar 18 21:21:23 <jean7491>	update by wouter ?
  44 mar 18 21:21:33 <woutervddn>	shirts are printed and the payment has been made.
  45 mar 18 21:21:48 <JanC>	so they will arrive next week I suppose
  46 mar 18 21:21:55 <woutervddn>	My guess is that they'll receive the money monday or tuesday so they'll arrive next week
  47 mar 18 21:22:19 <woutervddn>	do they transfer money internationally on a sunday?
  48 mar 18 21:22:33 <jean7491>	no idea
  49 mar 18 21:22:50 <woutervddn>	I thought they did but not sure.. anyways I'll be happy when I finally have them..
  50 mar 18 21:22:52 <JanC>	no, bank computers don't work on Sunday
  51 mar 18 21:23:03 <JanC>	not in Belgium at least
  52 mar 18 21:23:25 <woutervddn>	I've got some emails from people who pre ordered who were wondering about their 'package'
  53 mar 18 21:23:39 <JanC>	actually, Belgian banks still have to sign inter-bank transfers manually every day
  54 mar 18 21:24:36 <JanC>	woutervddn: did you explain they will get their t-shirt soon?
  55 mar 18 21:24:36 <jean7491>	i guess sending the pre-paid will be your priority
  56 mar 18 21:24:45 <jurgentje>	oh well... I don't think this day will make the difference...
  57 mar 18 21:26:02 <JanC>	jurgentje: maybe we can add a "present" to the t-shirts for the delay?
  58 mar 18 21:26:44 <jurgentje>	yeah, would be nice. One of those metal stickers maybe?
  59 mar 18 21:26:57 <woutervddn>	janC: yes I did, I also told them why they weren't there yet..
  60 mar 18 21:27:33 <woutervddn>	jurgentje & janC, I like that idea.. how much would it cost to add those?
  61 mar 18 21:27:58 <woutervddn>	(we don't want U-be to spent more money than we get out of it..)
  62 mar 18 21:28:04 <JanC>	well, the paper metalic stickers would be free, except for sending them to you
  63 mar 18 21:28:35 <JanC>	which would cost a simple enveloppe + stamp I guess
  64 mar 18 21:29:16 <JanC>	the metal foil stickers cost more of course
  65 mar 18 21:29:30 <jean7491>	add lanyards, if available ?
  66 mar 18 21:29:52 <JanC>	hm, lanyards or pins is also an option I suppose
  67 mar 18 21:30:11 <JanC>	woutervddn: how many pre-orders were there?
  68 mar 18 21:31:15 <woutervddn>	I thought it was 27 shirts..
  69 mar 18 21:31:18 <woutervddn>	sec I'll look it up
  70 mar 18 21:31:52 <woutervddn>	28 shirts :)
  71 mar 18 21:32:19 <jurgentje>	wow! that's a lot. (great)
  72 mar 18 21:33:38 <jean7491>	JanC and woutervddn : you can make it after the meeting, other comment about t-shirts ?
  73 mar 18 21:33:40 <JanC>	the advantage of the paper stickers is that it costs us almost nothing
  74 mar 18 21:33:59 <JanC>	no other comment
  75 mar 18 21:34:06 <woutervddn>	indeed.. I'm fine with both..
  76 mar 18 21:34:10 <woutervddn>	no other comment :)
  77 mar 18 21:34:25 <jean7491>	item #2 promotion material for fairs/events - flyers 2011
  78 mar 18 21:34:39 <jean7491>	nothing new,   I propose to start a poll between the 2 versions  Wouter V1 revisited version  and  Massimiliano V2
  79 mar 18 21:34:49 <jean7491>	please look at  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BelgianTeam/PromotionMaterial/ProposalsFlyers2011
  80 mar 18 21:34:58 <jurgentje>	okay for me
  81 mar 18 21:36:06 <jean7491>	wouter , can you start the flyers-poll on the website ? 
  82 mar 18 21:36:43 <woutervddn>	yes, I'll do it :)
  83 mar 18 21:37:05 <jean7491>	how long ? 1 or 2 weeks ?
  84 mar 18 21:37:42 <jurgentje>	I'm in favor of 1 week - who doesn't respond in a week, will rarely do so in 2...
  85 mar 18 21:38:02 <jean7491>	idd, imho 1 week is enough 
  86 mar 18 21:38:03 <woutervddn>	because we're not in a holiday period I'd say 1 week..
  87 mar 18 21:38:21 <jean7491>	ok
  88 mar 18 21:39:10 <jean7491>	other comment ?
  89 mar 18 21:39:41 <jurgentje>	I'd suggest that the 2 polls refer to each other...
  90 mar 18 21:39:56 <jurgentje>	so people actually SEE the two together if they vote
  91 mar 18 21:40:35 <jurgentje>	if that an option?
  92 mar 18 21:41:14 <woutervddn>	how do you mean?
  93 mar 18 21:41:45 <jurgentje>	in one poll have the two together
  94 mar 18 21:41:51 <jurgentje>	(the rollout I mean)
  95 mar 18 21:41:56 <woutervddn>	jurgentje: it's not a yes/no poll, it's a flyer 1 vs flyer 2 poll..
  96 mar 18 21:42:16 <woutervddn>	ow ok.. but I thought the roll up isn't starting now.. or is it?
  97 mar 18 21:42:33 <jurgentje>	I know... but the have to choose between 2 flyers... and x rollouts
  98 mar 18 21:42:42 <jean7491>	first the flyer
  99 mar 18 21:42:54 <woutervddn>	indeed..
 100 mar 18 21:42:59 <jurgentje>	ok
 101 mar 18 21:44:03 <jean7491>	  item #3 promotion material for fairs/events - rollups
 102 mar 18 21:44:29 <jean7491>	the meeting loco council (our topic about buying promo material through canonical) was postponed (next month)
 103 mar 18 21:44:41 <jean7491>	new proposals are in the wiki page https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BelgianTeam/PromotionMaterial/ProposalsRollup2011
 104 mar 18 21:44:51 <jean7491>	is it possible to use the new pictograms http://design.canonical.com/brand/8.%20Pictograms.pdf  in a design ?
 105 mar 18 21:45:03 <woutervddn>	jean7491: any reason why it was postponed?
 106 mar 18 21:45:15 <jean7491>	JanC ?
 107 mar 18 21:45:23 <woutervddn>	yes, I'll try to include them.. but my exams come first atm.. :)
 108 mar 18 21:45:32 <jurgentje>	umm... I tried them... they can be used... but maybe the same question needs to be asked for the flyer?
 109 mar 18 21:46:09 <JanC>	it was postponed because there weren't enough loco-council members present
 110 mar 18 21:46:10 <jurgentje>	I tried them, but they didn't work out as good as the existing ones... because you don't have an icon for every advantage used on the flyer
 111 mar 18 21:47:35 <jean7491>	i propose we wait next week for new proposals
 112 mar 18 21:48:47 <woutervddn>	jurgentje, can you post the ones you need and can't find?
 113 mar 18 21:49:18 <woutervddn>	atm I'm busy with exams, so making an entire flyer isn't an option, making an icon is just using my break to create one :)
 114 mar 18 21:50:29 <jurgentje>	hehe... okay. I'll send you a msg. I'll msg massimiliano too, I guess he'll need to adapt his flyer too then
 115 mar 18 21:50:30 <jurgentje>	no?
 116 mar 18 21:50:52 <jean7491>	wouter jurgen , can you continue after the meeting ?
 117 mar 18 21:51:05 <jurgentje>	wait... about the flyer poll
 118 mar 18 21:51:18 <jurgentje>	if it's up... the new icons won't be on them?
 119 mar 18 21:51:33 <jurgentje>	aren't the icons also relevant for the flyers?
 120 mar 18 21:51:56 <jean7491>	i propose to delay the poll for 1 or 2 weeks 
 121 mar 18 21:52:08 <woutervddn>	jurgentje: if we make another one I can still add it..
 122 mar 18 21:52:12 <jean7491>	as we are not in hurry
 123 mar 18 21:53:02 <woutervddn>	ok..
 124 mar 18 21:53:15 <jurgentje>	ok
 125 mar 18 21:54:05 <jean7491>	2 weeks delay, as we can continue next week for an agreement before to start the poll
 126 mar 18 21:55:12 <jean7491>	Item #4  promotion material for fairs/events - other goodies (mugs, bags, pens, ... )  
 127 mar 18 21:55:18 <jean7491>	a few propositions are in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BelgianTeam/PromotionMaterial/ProposalsGoodies2011
 128 mar 18 21:55:25 <jean7491>	nothing new, and as warddr leading the project is not present, I propose that we skip the item
 129 mar 18 21:55:39 <jurgentje>	okay... just about an hour ago, we suggested adding mousepads.
 130 mar 18 21:55:47 <jurgentje>	so there is a small addition
 131 mar 18 21:55:55 <woutervddn>	I'll add it to the page :)
 132 mar 18 21:56:04 <jurgentje>	it is already
 133 mar 18 21:56:07 <woutervddn>	ow.. nice..
 134 mar 18 21:56:36 <jurgentje>	just couldn't add that "big order mini price" site
 135 mar 18 21:58:40 <woutervddn>	:)
 136 mar 18 21:58:48 <jean7491>	we continue with topic # 3. update wiki and  web-site
 137 mar 18 21:59:06 <jean7491>	wiki : comment/proposal ?
 138 mar 18 21:59:31 <jurgentje>	yeah, I started reorganizing what I promised (the 2 promotional pages), but haven't finished it yet
 139 mar 18 21:59:54 <jean7491>	ok
 140 mar 18 22:00:04 <woutervddn>	thx jurgentje.. :)
 141 mar 18 22:00:13 <jurgentje>	I discovered a 3rd page pointing to the same (similar) content:
 142 mar 18 22:00:26 <jurgentje>	wiki.ubuntu.com/MarketingTeam/Materials/be
 143 mar 18 22:02:07 <woutervddn>	bub, I didn't know that page existed :o
 144 mar 18 22:02:22 <jurgentje>	yeah, it was hidden deep into a page :)
 145 mar 18 22:03:25 <jurgentje>	but it seams pretty mainstream to use that page... (all loco's appear to have that one)
 146 mar 18 22:03:43 <woutervddn>	merging to that page then?
 147 mar 18 22:03:48 <jurgentje>	So I propose to have that one the main page.
 148 mar 18 22:03:52 <jurgentje>	agreed?
 149 mar 18 22:03:56 <woutervddn>	I agree..
 150 mar 18 22:04:38 *	ttl- (~ttl@2001:5c0:150f:fe00:211:9ff:fe98:6f39) a rejoint #ubuntu-be
 151 mar 18 22:04:51 <jurgentje>	okay, so no opponents. Next item?
 152 mar 18 22:05:18 <jean7491>	i'm not convinced about that ...
 153 mar 18 22:05:46 <jurgentje>	oh, okay... well, obviously the old pages just link to that one
 154 mar 18 22:06:14 <jurgentje>	if we maintain the content on all the pages, it's doomed to turn into errors or stale pages.
 155 mar 18 22:06:30 <jurgentje>	one of the three must be the main one... for me it's equal. Pick one, it's the same for me
 156 mar 18 22:06:44 <jean7491>	as imho we are considering the structure of the belgian team wiki, not the wiki.ubuntu.com/...
 157 mar 18 22:07:01 <jurgentje>	umm... wiki.ubuntu.com/belgianteam ...
 158 mar 18 22:07:06 <jurgentje>	also wiki.ubuntu.com ?
 159 mar 18 22:07:59 <jean7491>	imho we stay in the part belgianteam and not in marketingteam
 160 mar 18 22:08:37 <jurgentje>	okay... same for me... then the marketingteam page gets emptied and points to our own page.
 161 mar 18 22:08:38 <jurgentje>	same for me.
 162 mar 18 22:08:53 <jean7491>	ok for me
 163 mar 18 22:08:58 <woutervddn>	ok
 164 mar 18 22:09:22 <jean7491>	other suggestion? 
 165 mar 18 22:09:22 <jurgentje>	okay then. Next item?
 166 mar 18 22:09:36 <jean7491>	about web-site ?
 167 mar 18 22:10:03 <jean7491>	bug #718482 ? support point manual translation
 168 mar 18 22:10:33 <woutervddn>	ow damn.. I said I was going to put that online didn't I?
 169 mar 18 22:11:12 <woutervddn>	will do after the meeting.. I forgot last week..
 170 mar 18 22:11:21 <jean7491>	idd, ok
 171 mar 18 22:11:27 <jean7491>	other suggestion? 
 172 mar 18 22:11:36 <woutervddn>	not atm..
 173 mar 18 22:11:38 *	ttl- est parti (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
 174 mar 18 22:11:43 <jean7491>	 next topic # 4. things living in the mailing list and others questions not in the agenda ?
 175 mar 18 22:11:51 <jean7491>	 item # 1 -  Ubuntu-be needs a structure and an organization
 176 mar 18 22:11:59 <jean7491>	 last week, as a first step, we talked about a leading council and its mission statement
 177 mar 18 22:12:10 <jean7491>	a project has been added to the wiki page https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BelgianTeam/TeamOrganization
 178 mar 18 22:12:26 <jean7491>	feel free to comment the project
 179 mar 18 22:13:22 <woutervddn>	I posted some comments on it, but only now I'm starting to see the scale of this idea..
 180 mar 18 22:13:40 <woutervddn>	this is huge! there is a lot more to it than I expected..
 181 mar 18 22:14:17 <jurgentje>	 yeah, and I still think this is something we should be doing around a table. IRC isn't working for this
 182 mar 18 22:14:48 <jean7491>	imho this is a preparation for an irl meeting
 183 mar 18 22:14:54 <woutervddn>	indeed..
 184 mar 18 22:15:01 <woutervddn>	on an IRL meeting you can't write it down either..
 185 mar 18 22:15:30 <woutervddn>	writing on something like that must happen by 1 person, 5 persons at the same time is doomed to fail (although ietherpad might solve that problem)
 186 mar 18 22:15:39 <jurgentje>	wouldn't the other way around work better? IRC isn't interactive enough to brainstorm on a text. Once the basics are there, the finetuning can happen in a wiki
 187 mar 18 22:15:58 <woutervddn>	imo this is the preparation, irl is the discussion and afterwards the real text has to be written
 188 mar 18 22:16:05 <jurgentje>	the big ideas, basic structure is something that has to be interacted
 189 mar 18 22:16:10 <JanC>	peopel can make their proposals as a preparation
 190 mar 18 22:16:39 <jurgentje>	too frustrating: 5 people put hours to work out something...
 191 mar 18 22:16:41 <woutervddn>	I do agree that the wiki is 'slow' for these kind of things..
 192 mar 18 22:17:01 <jurgentje>	better to put those 5 people together... have the skeleton and then have 1 of them draft a text around it
 193 mar 18 22:17:19 <woutervddn>	jurgentje, if we work like that 1 irl meeting isn't enough..
 194 mar 18 22:17:25 <jurgentje>	and then - that text can be discussed in wiki
 195 mar 18 22:17:36 <woutervddn>	and I don't think it's easy to group us 1ce let alone 2ce..
 196 mar 18 22:17:54 <jurgentje>	possibly. I tried, I put a whole afternoon trying to wrap my head around it... and I couldn't get it done
 197 mar 18 22:18:08 <woutervddn>	how about porting the proposal page to an ietherpad? it would allow us to edit it way more directly..
 198 mar 18 22:18:11 <jurgentje>	so I quit what I had.
 199 mar 18 22:18:27 <jurgentje>	yep, but you don't have the flow of ideas.
 200 mar 18 22:18:41 <woutervddn>	voice chat?
 201 mar 18 22:19:00 <jurgentje>	possibly...
 202 mar 18 22:19:10 <jurgentje>	first things first: who do we need in for this?
 203 mar 18 22:19:15 *	woutervddn is just throwing random ideas as I think it isn't easy to group us atm..
 204 mar 18 22:20:14 <woutervddn>	I think jean has the best view on those who should be in it..
 205 mar 18 22:20:17 <jurgentje>	example: right now... 2 persons are arguing... I have no clue what the other ppl think. Is this a stupid discussion? Are people getting angry/annoyed? etc...
 206 mar 18 22:20:47 <jurgentje>	I mean, let's first figure out what the premises are. Next we can look how we can meet those conditions most optimal
 207 mar 18 22:20:48 <woutervddn>	if so, reveal yourself!
 208 mar 18 22:21:32 *	ttl- (~ttl@2001:5c0:150f:fe00:211:9ff:fe98:6f39) a rejoint #ubuntu-be
 209 mar 18 22:21:46 <woutervddn>	jean, jan, what do you think of it?
 210 mar 18 22:21:59 <woutervddn>	* jean7491, janC what do you think of it?
 211 mar 18 22:22:04 *	ttl_ (~ttl@2001:5c0:150f:fe00:211:9ff:fe98:6f39) a rejoint #ubuntu-be
 212 mar 18 22:22:32 *	ttl_ est parti (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 213 mar 18 22:22:45 <JanC>	woutervddn: I haven't read everything yet
 214 mar 18 22:23:10 <JanC>	I do have some ideas myself, but not written them out or anything
 215 mar 18 22:23:12 <woutervddn>	janc, I meant who should be included?
 216 mar 18 22:23:23 <JanC>	included in an IRL meeting?
 217 mar 18 22:23:32 <jurgentje>	included in laying the foundations
 218 mar 18 22:23:40 <jean7491>	in the last report, i invited everybody to read the par. about organization and to react
 219 mar 18 22:23:49 <jurgentje>	(I guess this proves my point about the weakness of IRC for this kind of prep)
 220 mar 18 22:23:51 <jean7491>	but no reaction
 221 mar 18 22:23:52 <JanC>	whoever wants to can give their opinion...
 222 mar 18 22:24:15 <jurgentje>	jean7491, as I said: I tried, it's humongous... I worked on it a full afternoon and didn't know what to write
 223 mar 18 22:24:33 <woutervddn>	jean7491, I'm sure some of us want to help make this work, but does that mean all of those should be included in the irl meeting?
 224 mar 18 22:25:02 <woutervddn>	other downside of the wiki is the lack of graphical schemes etc..
 225 mar 18 22:25:11 <jean7491>	irc  reports are sent in the m-l, sometimes read by someone ?
 226 mar 18 22:25:33 <woutervddn>	I read them always, but I figured that you'd know I'm in to work on it :p
 227 mar 18 22:25:35 <jurgentje>	I've never read a chat log ever.
 228 mar 18 22:25:41 <jean7491>	as in 2009, there was a limited interest for this issue
 229 mar 18 22:25:44 <jurgentje>	reports, I do read most of the time
 230 mar 18 22:26:24 <jurgentje>	few people are interested in laying the foundations... but many think it important that we can start building (webshop, vzw, ...)
 231 mar 18 22:26:33 <woutervddn>	jean.. I'll react on it this time, if someone else does the same the ml responds (I've seen it happen with a number of other things, after 2 RE:'s people start reading it)
 232 mar 18 22:28:15 <woutervddn>	maybe this might sound stupid, but can we make a 'team' that sits to this and makes their work of it to continue/finish this
 233 mar 18 22:28:18 <woutervddn>	?
 234 mar 18 22:29:02 <jurgentje>	sure. for that was my question: who is needed (like Warddr for the webshop)
 235 mar 18 22:29:16 <jurgentje>	without whom this cannot work.
 236 mar 18 22:29:28 <jean7491>	imho the only conclusion today is to invite the m-l to read and react on the proposal, about a working-group? i already proposed it a few time
 237 mar 18 22:29:36 <woutervddn>	jurgentje, I believe that the webshop isn't the thing we should be focussing on
 238 mar 18 22:29:52 <woutervddn>	I'm in favor of one..
 239 mar 18 22:30:10 <woutervddn>	I saw with the shirts that it helps to see some others who surround you..
 240 mar 18 22:30:19 <jean7491>	as i wrote, ill leave early the meeting, ...
 241 mar 18 22:30:26 <jurgentje>	I know, but I mean: the topic of the shop doesn't work without Ward... so we keep postponing. He's a "decider" on this topic. Who are "deciders" on the topic of laying the foundations of this?
 242 mar 18 22:30:32 <woutervddn>	if you aren't sure of something you can ask them first and you don't have to put it online directly..
 243 mar 18 22:30:55 <woutervddn>	you take of now jean?
 244 mar 18 22:31:10 <woutervddn>	I'm in to work on the foundations..
 245 mar 18 22:31:27 <woutervddn>	any1 else?
 246 mar 18 22:31:30 <jean7491>	yes, i propose next meeting  thuesday 24/03 or friday 25/03/2011 at 21 h. ?
 247 mar 18 22:31:43 <jurgentje>	I would like to too... but this form doesn't work for me.
 248 mar 18 22:32:17 <jurgentje>	I'm not free Friday.
 249 mar 18 22:32:34 <JanC>	both dates are okay for me
 250 mar 18 22:32:36 <jurgentje>	but I'm not a key player.
 251 mar 18 22:32:45 <woutervddn>	not thursday?
 252 mar 18 22:33:00 <jurgentje>	thursday 24 is okay for me
 253 mar 18 22:33:06 <jurgentje>	(I think it was a typo)
 254 mar 18 22:33:10 <jean7491>	meeting  thuesday 24/03 !?
 255 mar 18 22:33:41 <JanC>	thursday 24/3 is okay for me
 256 mar 18 22:33:54 <woutervddn>	jean, you mean thursday 24/03?
 257 mar 18 22:34:31 <woutervddn>	that day is fine for me, but I might leave early :)
 258 mar 18 22:34:40 <jean7491>	yes thursday 24/03, feel free to continue, have a good night
 259 mar 18 22:34:47 <woutervddn>	good night..
 260 mar 18 22:34:48 <woutervddn>	o/
 261 mar 18 22:34:53 <jurgentje>	maybe we can start half hour sooner?
 262 mar 18 22:34:53 <woutervddn>	take care and get better soon
 263 mar 18 22:35:08 <jurgentje>	yep. good nite.
 264 mar 18 22:35:24 <woutervddn>	I'm still eating then :p
 265 mar 18 22:35:32 <jurgentje>	okay :)
 266 mar 18 22:35:38 <jurgentje>	9 PM it is then
 267 mar 18 22:36:30 <jurgentje>	April 25 I'm inviting whoever wants to think on this topic
 268 mar 18 22:36:37 <jurgentje>	independent of how far we stand.
 269 mar 18 22:36:40 <jurgentje>	is this a good idea?
 270 mar 18 22:37:03 <woutervddn>	on IRC? or IRL?
 271 mar 18 22:37:17 <jurgentje>	IRL. - pizza at noon and then we take off :)
 272 mar 18 22:37:41 <jurgentje>	that's more than a month from now
 273 mar 18 22:37:55 <jurgentje>	if we can't get a foundation by then... we won't be able to get it
 274 mar 18 22:37:59 <jurgentje>	don't you agree?
 275 mar 18 22:38:04 <woutervddn>	is that easter monday?
 276 mar 18 22:38:08 <jurgentje>	yep
 277 mar 18 22:38:44 <jurgentje>	end of Easter holiday... and corporate holiday for the whole of Belgium :)
 278 mar 18 22:38:46 <woutervddn>	I'll have to check (family stuff).. But I think i might be able to get there (if other join..)
 279 mar 18 22:39:14 <jurgentje>	as long as I'm not alone, I'm going to work on this.
 280 mar 18 22:39:25 <jurgentje>	JanC, what's your opinion?
 281 mar 18 22:40:27 <JanC>	where do you live and is it easily reachable for everybody?
 282 mar 18 22:40:35 <jurgentje>	Vilvoorde - pretty central
 283 mar 18 22:40:43 <woutervddn>	brb..  2 secs
 284 mar 18 22:40:45 <jurgentje>	and I can pickup at the railway station
 285 mar 18 22:41:07 <JanC>	it's probably okay for me
 286 mar 18 22:41:24 <jurgentje>	other people we explicitely want to invite?
 287 mar 18 22:41:58 <jurgentje>	jean? mongolito? others?
 288 mar 18 22:42:06 <jurgentje>	massimiliano, nero?
 289 mar 18 22:42:23 <JanC>	Pierre, Sylvain & Rami for Wallonia, the people from Hasselt/Genk events team, ...
 290 mar 18 22:42:29 <JanC>	Nero too indeed
 291 mar 18 22:43:03 <jurgentje>	Jan, will you send them a msg? Or give me the addresses?
 292 mar 18 22:43:53 <JanC>	Jan Bongaerts too
 293 mar 18 22:44:25 <woutervddn>	indeed..
 294 mar 18 22:44:28 <JanC>	and Mark VDB
 295 mar 18 22:44:33 <woutervddn>	those were some I was going to point out..
 296 mar 18 22:44:38 <jurgentje>	great! We're having about 10 names already... so if half shows up, we've got a nice team :)
 297 mar 18 22:44:46 <woutervddn>	indeed..
 298 mar 18 22:45:38 <woutervddn>	speaking of mark, and accountancy people, if we'd become a vzw, what kind of bookkeeper do we need?
 299 mar 18 22:45:46 <woutervddn>	is someone with an A2 enough?
 300 mar 18 22:46:10 <JanC>	no diploma is needed
 301 mar 18 22:46:23 <woutervddn>	for a vzw? :s I thought it was..
 302 mar 18 22:47:09 <JanC>	it's just that somebody with experience and who keeps up-to-date with law changes is useful
 303 mar 18 22:47:19 <jurgentje>	yep, that's true
 304 mar 18 22:47:40 <woutervddn>	really? hmm.. okay then..
 305 mar 18 22:47:43 <woutervddn>	*than..
 306 mar 18 22:47:57 <JanC>	there are also vzw's that handle this stuff for other vzw's etc.
 307 mar 18 22:48:17 <woutervddn>	ow..
 308 mar 18 22:48:18 <jurgentje>	yeah, I guess we can find some help on that if we want to
 309 mar 18 22:48:31 <woutervddn>	we do need an agenda for that IRL meeting..
 310 mar 18 22:49:06 <JanC>	I'd suggest we don't discuss regular stuff on that meeting and keep the agenda as short as possible
 311 mar 18 22:49:41 <jurgentje>	yep. Just 1 item: foundations
 312 mar 18 22:49:50 <jurgentje>	I suggest this kind of invitation:
 313 mar 18 22:49:51 <woutervddn>	ofcourse..
 314 mar 18 22:49:51 <jurgentje>	http://ietherpad.com/ubuntu-be
 315 mar 18 22:50:28 <woutervddn>	but I meant that foundations should be divided so we don't miss something..
 316 mar 18 22:50:52 <jurgentje>	Yep... and we have a month or so to work this out on that wiki page.
 317 mar 18 22:51:12 <jurgentje>	btw... feel free to tweak the text (patches are welcomed)
 318 mar 18 22:54:41 <jurgentje>	wouter: could you explain what you mean by that? (maybe in Dutch since all the participants are Flemish)
 319 mar 18 22:54:48 <jurgentje>	(if that's easier)
 320 mar 18 22:54:55 <woutervddn>	how do you mean?
 321 mar 18 22:55:06 <woutervddn>	the foundations should be divided...
 322 mar 18 22:55:11 <jurgentje>	yeah, that
 323 mar 18 22:55:11 <woutervddn>	?
 324 mar 18 22:55:58 <woutervddn>	I'll add it, but isn't it better do so in english, maybe some frenchspeaking people want to join
 325 mar 18 22:56:27 <jurgentje>	sure, fine for me. but sometimes it's easier to get something explained in your own language.
 326 mar 18 22:56:30 <JanC>	I think jurgentje means you can explain it in dutch now
 327 mar 18 22:56:34 <woutervddn>	do we have a place to put the 'divided' agenda? (should it be on the wiki or on the invitation?)
 328 mar 18 22:56:48 <woutervddn>	ow..
 329 mar 18 22:56:50 <jurgentje>	the wiki seems like the good place for that
 330 mar 18 22:58:08 <JanC>	maybe make sure that page is marked as a work-in-progress
 331 mar 18 22:58:24 <JanC>	including the agenda (for now)
 332 mar 18 22:58:44 <woutervddn>	wel ik bedoelde dat we op voorhand 'foundations' moeten opsplitsen in deel gebieden. council, rest van de structuur, de gevolgen ervan, de 'code of conducts'....
 333 mar 18 22:59:29 <woutervddn>	op die manier kunnen we probleem per probleem tackle'en.. ik vrees dat we anders wel eens het een en ander over het hoofd zouden kunnen zien.
 334 mar 18 22:59:37 <JanC>	IMHO moeten we zo weinig mogelijk vastleggen qua structuur  ;)
 335 mar 18 22:59:42 <jurgentje>	dat denk ik ook
 336 mar 18 22:59:56 <jurgentje>	in eersrte instantie op de wiki moet dat de eerste fase van brainstorm zijn
 337 mar 18 23:00:02 <woutervddn>	ow..
 338 mar 18 23:00:05 <jurgentje>	tekst is te verleidelijk om alles te gaan uitschrijven
 339 mar 18 23:00:45 <woutervddn>	het is misschien ook handig om er iemand bij te hebben die ooit al eens een vergelijkbare omschakeling heeft gedaan.. (al vraag ik mij af waar we die kunnen vinden..)
 340 mar 18 23:00:47 <JanC>	misschien zijn vragen zelfs nuttiger dan antwoorden vóór de IRL meeting?
 341 mar 18 23:00:57 <woutervddn>	da's wel een goed punt..
 342 mar 18 23:01:00 <jurgentje>	yeps... vragen zijn zéker goed
 343 mar 18 23:01:30 <jurgentje>	euh... ik ken iemand hier regelmatig geholpen heeft bij de oprichting van hackerspaces...
 344 mar 18 23:01:37 <jurgentje>	(dat zijn ook VZW's)
 345 mar 18 23:01:42 <JanC>	woutervddn: ik heb wel eens meegeholpen met zoiets...
 346 mar 18 23:01:48 <jurgentje>	mss kan ik hem om raad vragen (of eens langskomen)
 347 mar 18 23:01:53 <jurgentje>	ow, dan hebben we zo iemand :)
 348 mar 18 23:01:57 <JanC>	maar input van verschillende mensen is zeker nuttig
 349 mar 18 23:02:08 <JanC>	ik ben ver van een expert  ;)
 350 mar 18 23:02:27 <jurgentje>	en eens we een klein beetje vorm hebben... kunnen we onze brainstorm en/of basistekst op de ML loslaten
 351 mar 18 23:02:55 <jurgentje>	goed idee ? of niet,
 352 mar 18 23:02:56 <jurgentje>	?
 353 mar 18 23:04:56 <woutervddn>	vr mij is dat een goed idee..
 354 mar 18 23:05:38 <woutervddn>	k zou zeggen we zoeken iemand die bezig is met regeringsonderhandelingen, daar moet je ook met verschillende mensen rekening houden, maar in dit geval is dit niet zo'n goed idee denk ik..
 355 mar 18 23:05:52 <jurgentje>	hehe... lopende zaken :)
 356 mar 18 23:06:00 <woutervddn>	xD
 357 mar 18 23:06:16 <jurgentje>	JanC, doe jij het mailtje (ietherpad) naar die genodigden?
 358 mar 18 23:06:22 <woutervddn>	ontslagnemende regering..
 359 mar 18 23:06:32 <jurgentje>	sturen we diezelfde brief ook gewoon naar de ML? (open uitnodiging)
 360 mar 18 23:07:18 <woutervddn>	ik stel voor om hem op de ml te zetten maar die mensen persoonlijk ook nog eens uit te nodigen.. (aangezien ik veronderstel dat iedereen welkom is maar we hen zeker willen)
 361 mar 18 23:07:30 <jurgentje>	absoluut.
 362 mar 18 23:07:39 <jurgentje>	heb ik ook zo op de ietherpad gezet
 363 mar 18 23:07:43 <woutervddn>	:)
 364 mar 18 23:10:44 <jurgentje>	JanC, ben je daar?
 365 mar 18 23:12:07 <jurgentje>	oké, blijkbaar niet
 366 mar 18 23:12:27 <jurgentje>	woutervddn, help je me even email adressen verzamelen?
 367 mar 18 23:13:16 <woutervddn>	euwh.. ja
 368 mar 18 23:13:17 <woutervddn>	 goed..
 369 mar 18 23:13:25 <jurgentje>	pm.
 370 mar 18 23:13:28 <jurgentje>	is privé hé
 371 mar 18 23:13:33 <woutervddn>	good point
 372 mar 18 23:17:18 <jurgentje>	is dit wat men noemt een vergadering die doodgebloed is?
 373 mar 18 23:30:05 *	El-Kodar est parti (Quit: Ex-Chat)
 374 mar 18 23:47:42 <woutervddn>	anything else that should be added?
 375 mar 18 23:48:04 <jurgentje>	oh yeah... how about a poll for the design of a mousepad /:
 376 mar 18 23:48:07 <jurgentje>	(j/k)
 377 mar 18 23:48:41 <woutervddn>	j/k?
 378 mar 18 23:50:29 <jurgentje>	just kidding :)
 379 mar 18 23:50:42 <woutervddn>	ow.. I always write that without a / .. nvrmnd..
 380 mar 18 23:51:07 <jurgentje>	nvr/mnd :D
 381 mar 18 23:51:20 <jurgentje>	movie on VT4 about a killer penguin
 382 mar 18 23:51:27 <woutervddn>	lol
 383 mar 18 23:51:28 <woutervddn>	I think that before we start a webshop we need to talk about the ethical part of it..
 384 mar 18 23:51:29 <jurgentje>	(some hockey mascotte... happens to be a penguin)
 385 mar 18 23:51:33 <woutervddn>	xD
 386 mar 18 23:51:55 <woutervddn>	I think some might think that ubuntu-be shouldn't be selling stuff as ubuntu is supposed to be free..
 387 mar 18 23:52:16 <woutervddn>	on the other side, finding ubuntu related stuff is hard, and if you find it, its expensive..
 388 mar 18 23:52:19 <jurgentje>	oh well...  that's a discussion to be held then :)
 389 mar 18 23:52:35 <woutervddn>	indeed :) first things first
 390 mar 18 23:52:39 <jurgentje>	and we need some basic income to fund stuff like the rollouts
 391 mar 18 23:53:15 <jurgentje>	another option is: have organisations or website owners to become "supporting member" (allowing them to put a logo on their site)
 392 mar 18 23:53:27 <jurgentje>	if they pay €50 per year (for example)
 393 mar 18 23:53:37 <jurgentje>	as a supporting gift...
 394 mar 18 23:53:48 <jurgentje>	just another idea :)
 395 mar 18 23:54:12 <jurgentje>	did you already get the mail?
 396 mar 18 23:54:23 <woutervddn>	yeah, although that might raise some issues with the 'independentness' of U-be
 397 mar 18 23:54:30 <woutervddn>	jup I got it :)
 398 mar 18 23:54:52 <jurgentje>	okay. curious about the response :D
 399 mar 18 23:55:18 <woutervddn>	but I'll confirm after I spoke to my parents.. I missed out the birthay of my grandmother and I don't want my dad going grumpy cause I don' t spend time with the family ;p
 400 mar 18 23:55:55 <woutervddn>	there'll be some people I guess :)
 401 mar 18 23:56:39 <jurgentje>	I sure hope so!
 402 mar 18 23:56:50 <woutervddn>	I'm wondering if it would be possible to start a shop that is completely independent of U-be but make that shop pay a certain amount to U-be as a gift..
 403 mar 18 23:57:11 <woutervddn>	but I'm not sure if that's legal..
 404 mar 18 23:58:10 <jurgentje>	we must be sure not to infringe the ubuntu trademark
 405 mar 18 23:58:50 <woutervddn>	indeed.. but a seperate shop that doesn't really have anything to do with U-be might solve it..
 406 mar 18 23:59:12 <jurgentje>	only that they will go after the shop owner :)
 407 mar 18 23:59:14 <woutervddn>	I think that having a shop with as purpose to promote U and U-be it isn't a problem..
 408 mar 18 23:59:18 <jurgentje>	and I won't be that stupid guy :p
 409 mar 18 23:59:47 <woutervddn>	I don't know about that.. the contact I had with canonical about stuff like that was fairly good..
 410 mar 19 00:00:01 <jurgentje>	I think we can have a shop with Ubuntu stuff
 411 mar 19 00:00:10 <jurgentje>	but we must respect their rules
 412 mar 19 00:00:20 <woutervddn>	indeed.. and the belgian rules ofcourse..
 413 mar 19 00:01:14 <jurgentje>	:D
 414 mar 19 00:01:17 <woutervddn>	I'm sure that if it's a legal issue canonical will be willing to consider an ask of U-be if they can 'outsource' a shop to a seperate firm to overcome legal issues..
 415 mar 19 00:01:24 <woutervddn>	(or so I think)
 416 mar 19 00:01:40 <jurgentje>	hey, let's tackle that if we're up to that
 417 mar 19 00:01:47 <woutervddn>	yeah.. :)
 418 mar 19 00:01:56 <woutervddn>	suppose you're right..
 419 mar 19 00:01:56 <jurgentje>	too much "if" and "maybe" parts in here :)
 420 mar 19 00:02:03 <woutervddn>	true :p
 421 mar 19 00:02:09 <woutervddn>	but I'm off.. got to study tomorrow :(
 422 mar 19 00:02:23 <jurgentje>	yeah,
 423 mar 19 00:02:24 <jurgentje>	good luck
 424 mar 19 00:02:29 <jurgentje>	what exam are you studying?
 425 mar 19 00:03:36 <jurgentje>	bye
 426 mar 19 00:03:38 <woutervddn>	thuesday I've got chemics :)
 427 mar 19 00:03:49 <woutervddn>	and friday I've got electrics
 428 mar 19 00:03:59 <jurgentje>	hehe... nice. "blok ze"
 429 mar 19 00:04:00 <woutervddn>	and then I'm done :p
 430 mar 19 00:04:06 <woutervddn>	lolz.. I will :p
 431 mar 19 00:04:17 <woutervddn>	good night ;-)