||<<Include(CaliforniaTeam/Menu)>>||

== Sunday, August 9th, 2009, 7:00pm (1900) PDT ==

=== Summary ===
 1. Solano Stroll (discussed last meeting) is just going to be BerkeleyLUG to avoid confusion, so our banner won't be needed
 1. Linux Picnic
  a. In Sunnydale, August 15th. jdeslip, grantbow, and vsayer will be going
  a. jdeslip will bring the Ubuntu California banner, since other groups are bringing theirs
  a. Flannel will co-ordinate making a !LoCo flyer
  a. jdeslip will email the ML with more info
 1. Global Jam planning
  a. Weekend of October 2-4
  a. Open to pretty much anything, not just bug triaging
  a. Going to try one event tied together across multiple places with videoconferencing
  a. General discussion of videoconferencing and general jam focuses
  a. Disagreement on role of LUGs in planning and execution; discussion moved to after meeting

=== Original Agenda ===
 1. Planning/Discussion:
  a. [[CaliforniaTeam/Projects/KarmicGlobalJam|Global Jam]]
  a. [[CaliforniaTeam/Projects/KarmicRelease|Karmic Release]]
 1. Presence at Linux Picnic - http://www.linuxpicnic.org/twiki/bin/view/Picnix18/

=== Log ===
{{{
19:18:41 < Flannel> So, welcome everyone to our August 9th meeting.
19:19:16 < Flannel> our agenda for the evening currently consists of, a few things.
19:20:37 < Flannel> We'll have an update on the Solano Stroll, A Linux Picnic, and then we'll continue our discussion and planning of our events in october: our Global Jam and Karmic Release festivities
19:21:36 < Flannel> Solano stroll is going to be a no-go, it'll just be BerkeleyLUG for the sake of not causing utter confusion and a logistics nightmare
19:22:24 < Flannel> jdeslip: would you like to explain the Linux picnic?
19:22:27 < jdeslip> Nods
19:23:31 < jdeslip> The Linux Picnic is an event in Sunnyvale next sunday.  Basically it is a laid back linux bbq.  I will be attending (and I think others in the Bay Area LoCo will be as well).
19:23:49 < jdeslip> (Grantbow, vsayer I think)
19:24:25 < rww> ( I was thinking of going, but it looks like I won't be able to. )
19:24:28 < nhaines> Sounds like fun!
19:24:29 < Flannel> jdeslip: Saturday
19:24:32 < Flannel> August 15th
19:24:32 < jdeslip> The website suggests that groups have a presence - i.e. bring their banners / work on projects if they want.
19:25:22 < jdeslip> So, I thought it would be a good idea for Ubuntu to have a presence.  The audience is basically Linux experts.  But, I think an Ubuntu presence will send the message that Ubuntu is not just for newbs and that it is team player.
19:25:38 < jdeslip> (Well it won't send that message - but continued attendance at such events would)
19:26:14 < Yasumoto> heya, sorry about that guys
19:26:26 < jdeslip> So, I propose that we do have a presence.  i.e. show up with our banner and display it (if there are in fact other groups doing it and we don't look like a bunch pricks)
19:27:12 < jdeslip> We don't need to evangelize or give out basic info to experts.  Basically, just put up the banner, shake a few hands, have a good time, drink a few beers.
19:27:18 < Flannel> Yasumoto: we're discussing http://www.linuxpicnic.org/twiki/bin/view/Picnix18/ (and this is effectively the first thing, not the last, on the agenda)
19:27:25 < Flannel> Just be social.
19:27:32 < rww> Yasumoto: and I PMed you the log thusfar :)
19:27:34 < Yasumoto> Flannel: thanks :)
19:27:44 < nhaines> Why not just show up infprmally?
19:27:59 < Yasumoto> rww: awesome, thank you
19:28:07 < Flannel> nhaines: the banners are somewhat informal as is.
19:28:43 < jdeslip> Well, for the reasons I suggested above.  1. they specifically encourage groups showing up with banner etc 2. The banner is informal but at least shows that "ubuntu is here"
19:29:38 < jdeslip> Which, if is the case at enough events, I think it would improve Ubuntu's image among Linux experts.  (which is not awful now but could be better)
19:29:40 < nhaines> If they waant banners, then lets give it to them.  :)
19:29:57 < Flannel> Who currently has the banner?
19:30:30 < Flannel> Anyone know? Yasumoto? or anyone else doing teardown at OSCON
19:30:41 < jdeslip> I am not even saying we'll use it.  If nobody else has a banner, I certainly don't think we should look like a bunch of snobs by setting ours up.  Just bring it and judge the situation when we get there.
19:30:50 < jdeslip> I have it now, actually.
19:30:58 < jdeslip> Closeted.
19:31:07 < Flannel> Ah, good.
19:31:49 < nhaines> It's important to gauge the way a banner would be received.
19:31:52 < jdeslip> To be honest, the organiztion of the event is pretty laid back (as  the event itself).  But, I think the attendees should have the ability to set up a "corner" if it Red Hat has one ;)
19:32:25 < nhaines> Remember, all the distros are in it together!  :)
19:33:07 < jdeslip> IE - the website says they want teams to RSVP and bring banners.  So, we should bring one and use it if there really are other teams there.
19:33:13 < Flannel> Yeah.
19:33:28 < jdeslip> nhaines: I know, I know!  I just don't want Ubuntu left out if other distros/groups are there.
19:33:29 < Flannel> jdeslip: Would it be handy to have LoCo fliers (geared towards experts)?
19:33:39 < jdeslip> Flannel:  probably.
19:33:50 < jdeslip> Flannel:  Do such things exist?
19:34:02 < Flannel> jdeslip: Sort of.  We can work on it and get it done tonight probably.
19:34:17 < Flannel> Anyone interested -- here, after the meeting.  Behind the swings.
19:34:24 < Flannel> And over the next few days/etc ;)
19:34:42 < rww> Flannel: sweet. Are we gonna use multiplayer notepad for it?
19:34:44 < jdeslip> Sounds good.
19:34:55 < Flannel> rww: Probably.
19:35:01 < Flannel> Alright, so, moving on?
19:35:19 < Flannel> jdeslip: Oh, you mind posting to the list about it, so people know?
19:35:26 < jdeslip> Sure
19:35:44 < Flannel> Alright.  I think that wraps that up.
19:36:12 < Flannel> Anyone have anything else about it?
19:36:27 < Flannel> Next topic is, Global Jam planning.
19:37:46 < Flannel> Next Global Jam is the weekend of October 2-4, and we're hoping to have a single semi-distributed session across CA.
19:38:19 < Flannel> This global jam is different than the last one in that it's not just for bugs, but instead open to pretty much anything.
19:39:05 < Flannel> So as far as planning goes, we need to set up a day/time, figure out the logistics of the streaming stuff, and decide what activities we want to do at it.
19:39:15 < nhaines> I think that follows with theinitiative many LoCos took in the first Bug Jams
19:39:16 < Flannel> (We don't need to decide all/any of these tonight)
19:39:25 < jbermudes> Flannel: like what else besides bugs? features?
19:39:43 < Flannel> Bugs, Artwork, Testing, Documentation, Packaging, Marketing, whatever.
19:39:44 < jdeslip> Promotions as well I think
19:40:20 < DWonderly> have you heard if 9.10 will come with the netbook remix again?
19:40:27 < Flannel> That gamut is open to pretty much anything Ubuntu does.  But we also have to make sure it's something that fits inside the jam framework (again this doesn't limit it much)
19:40:27 < grantphone> advocacy is included I think, yes.
19:41:17 < Flannel> There's nothing that isn't included, if you think we can take something and turn it into a jam-session, we'll be happy to consider it.
19:41:37 < grantphone> in the irc meeting describing the jam it was very open to all kinds of Ubuntu related contributions.
19:41:40 < jdeslip> While I think coordination among LoCo peeps from all over the state is good.  I think personally that medium sized groups meeting in person would be more productive.
19:42:22 < Flannel> jdeslip: The importantpart of a Jam isn't to get anything "done", it's to get people together and share knowledge about how it's done, and allow people to stumble through the steps of doing it the first time
19:42:49 < nhaines> I'm not sure what an advocacy jam would look like.
19:42:55 < Flannel> There's no harm in setting goals, but there are no failures in not reaching them, etc.  It's about getting people together to share and work together, etc.
19:43:09 < jdeslip> Flannel:  Sure fun first.
19:43:20 < jdeslip> community second
19:43:22 < rww> DWonderly: there'll be a 9.10 Ubuntu Netbook Remix, yeah. The people in #ubuntu+1 might know a little more about it (or in the UNR channel, but I'm not sure what it's called. #ubuntu-mobile, maybe?)
19:43:39 < jbermudes> maybe a buntustand development/packaging/artwork/testing/ festival?
19:43:40 < grantphone> The facilities demands for conferencing of this nature is quite high, this is the key challenge.
19:43:54 < jdeslip> But, I am worried that if we rely on VOIP, the whole event might turn out into an event about VOIP or about connecting over VOIP
19:44:00 < DWonderly> that's what I have so for the SoCal jam I can have that for ppl as well
19:44:07 < Flannel> jdeslip: the VOIP would only be from a few locations.
19:44:23 < Flannel> jdeslip: Large centers of people, connected together, with people who can't make it to a center conencting from home/etc
19:44:28 < nhaines> VoIP should probably be tested well in advance.
19:44:35 < Flannel> (probably just listening/watching, and contributing over IRC)
19:44:36 < jdeslip> Certainly.
19:44:42 < nhaines> It's usually fraught with peril.  :)
19:45:30 < Flannel> If it's not something we can do, so be it.  While I'm not knowledgable in the area, I don't think it's something we couldn't get done though.
19:45:48 < Flannel> I may be wrong, like I said, I don't know much about it
19:45:53 < DWonderly> ill check at work. we do VOIP video all the time
19:46:20 < Flannel> I imagine it'll be two, maybe three locations that we need to link up.
19:46:54 < Flannel> DWonderly: Thanks
19:46:54 < grantphone> I don't know of any suitable locations right now.
19:47:13 < jdeslip> Let me describe what I envision and let me know if it is consistent with your ideas Flannel, nhaines
19:47:46 < nhaines> jdeslip: voip sounds awesome; but i do voip support at work.
19:49:24 < jdeslip> I am thinking of having a Jam event in Berkeley run in equal parts as a LUG event (probably located on campus somewhere - I can get space) extending invites to LUGs all over the area and other interested parties.  We will set ahead a list of bug triaging / development goals based on what each attendee wants to accomplish.
19:51:01 < jdeslip> We could connect over VOIP to a greater LoCo event, but that would not be the main effort because I have attended enough berkeleytip meetings to know that voip is not really a great of communicating with a lot of people.  It would mainly be a means to control the flow of time across locations etc...
19:51:39 < Flannel> jdeslip: It'd be two locations (at least), one in the Bay area, the other down here (probably Chapman), connected via video + audio, so it's really one "big" event.  We can decide ahead of time on maybe two things we want to jam on (so we can prepare talks on them if needed), and then have two info sessions (maybe more), structured in the beginning, more free-for-all afterwards (perhaps more sessions, or perhaps just time to work/play/wh
19:51:46 < jdeslip> I.e. schedule times where everyone takes a break to listen to a speaker on VOIP or have random announcements on VOIP
19:52:35 < Flannel> The way jam-sessions go is there's a presentation/walkthrough on how to do something, and then some time for people to do it individually (so questions can be asked, etc)
19:53:36 < jdeslip> Flannel:  If you want everyone connected on VOIP all the time in one big conversation it will be chaos (if we can work past technical issues and get people connected).  if everyone is listening to one person, than it isn't all the productive I think.  (But, you might be right that the purpose is not to be productive)
19:53:59 < Flannel> So, the links would really be audio + video of the room (except maybe when the speaker is speaking), and in all practically, might be for the majority of the time, symbolic.
19:54:08 < Flannel> jdeslip: No no, ONE voip connection between each room
19:54:16 < Flannel> So, two end points, room A and room B
19:54:47 < jdeslip> OK.  If it is mostly symbolic as you say except when there is designated speaker.  I think that makes sense.
19:54:59 < Flannel> And if someone in room A is giving the talk on how-to-do-something, everyone in both rooms can watch, and if someone in room B has a question, they can be addressed, etc.
19:55:18 < jdeslip> I think there should be one or two such talks a day and then have each group break up to do projects of interest to the attendees
19:55:42 < jdeslip> (while the video runs in the background for morale purposes)
19:56:22 < nhaines> That's how I've always understood it would work.
19:56:22 < Flannel> We can figure out specifics on scheduling and that stuff later.   Last time ... well, two times ago, we did a few additional on-the-spot talks
19:56:40 < Flannel> Based on what people who attended were interested in, and whta we could throw together to talk about
19:57:01 < Flannel> Also, if anyone was interested in giving a presentation infront of smiling faces, it'd be a good chance for them to spread their wings as well.
19:57:10 < Flannel> and get constructive feedback/etc
19:57:32 < Flannel> so yeah, it's more formal in the morning, and leads into more informality
19:58:35 < Flannel> s/morning/beginning/
19:59:33 < Flannel> Er, we seem to have stopped.  Anyone else have thoughts/comments/whatever about the Global Jam?
20:00:14 < DWonderly> like i said i have remix if ppl want to see it
20:00:36 < jdeslip> So, I think this event is a good opportunity for the LoCo to play joint/participatory role with LUGs in the local community.
20:00:54 < nhaines> jdeslip: in what manner?
20:01:05 < Flannel> jdeslip: This is definately an event the LoCo would be putting on but everyone is welcome to attend, yes.
20:01:11 < Flannel> er, s/but/that/
20:01:26 < jdeslip> This is a good opportunity to redefine the LoCo group role as a partner and member in LUGs and other local groups instead of an leadership/guru only role
20:02:09 < nhaines> Is it?  The event is already pretty overloaded.
20:02:21 < jdeslip> Flannel:  I think you are limiting your audience quite a bit then
20:02:34 < Flannel> jdeslip: How? by opening it to everyone?
20:02:47 < jdeslip> Not to mention that it is impossible to put on with the hard work of local groups
20:03:14 < Flannel> jdeslip: er, no it's really not.
20:03:15 < grantphone> people, not groups ultimately
20:03:40 < jdeslip> By making an "Ubuntu LoCo event with LUG's invited" instead of joint "LoCo + LUG" event
20:03:41 < Flannel> We've put on one successful one, and one that was doomed for failure for other reasons already.
20:04:34 < jdeslip> I just mean, people generally going to offended or worse if you plan an event in their territory without their joint participation
20:05:21 < jdeslip> And, quite frankly, it just makes sense to leverage an already existent network to help setup the event
20:05:22 < grantphone> planning is one thing, doing is another
20:05:49 < Flannel> jdeslip: The event is geared towards LoCo members, but open to everyone (anyone who wants to learn how to participate in the larger Ubuntu community)
20:06:30 < jdeslip> Than are LoCo members alone going to find places?  Set up VOIP?  Organize food / network / power?
20:06:44 < jdeslip> That is an absurd task for a LoCo.
20:06:46 < Flannel> jdeslip: That's how we've always organized events, yes.
20:06:53 < Flannel> jdeslip: It's not absurd.
20:07:09 < grantphone> are meetings intended to be one hour. we have already run over.
20:07:31 < jdeslip> If I were to help set up an event with the network of people I know in Berkeley?  I could not in good faith call it only a "LoCo" event.
20:07:38 < grantphone> sorry i was late, am still on the road
20:08:06 < jdeslip> I could not ask for people's help and participation without giving them and their groups equal credit.
20:08:06 < Flannel> jdeslip: We aren't asking you to set up an event using the people from your LUG
20:08:21 < jdeslip> This would include BUUG / BerkeleyLUG / CALLUG etc?
20:08:22 < Flannel> This isn't supposed to be a LoCo advocated LUG-run event
20:08:40 < jdeslip> (DVLUG)
20:08:41 < Flannel> This would be LoCo members from the bay area setting up the event in the bay area.
20:08:57 < jdeslip> If you don't want people from LUGs helping set it up, participate.  There is no-one left
20:08:58 < nhaines> This is definitely an event for and by the Ubuntu comunity.
20:09:03 < Flannel> (just like the ones from down here setting it up down here)
20:09:14 < Flannel> down here being the LA area
20:09:19 < nhaines> And the LoCos are tasked with coordinating.
20:09:56 < Flannel> jdeslip: We have a number of LoCo members in the bay area, yourself included.  I must not be understanding something.
20:10:56 < jdeslip> But, we are all associated with other groups - and those are the people we will be relying on to show up, help-out and generally make the event successful.
20:11:24 < Flannel> jdeslip: When you're planning a LoCo event, you have your LoCo hat on.  When you're planning a LUG event, you have your LUG hat on.
20:11:41 < nhaines> jdeslip: They will need to be willing to participate as a member of the Ubuntu community.
20:11:44 < jdeslip> This, to me, is a great opportunity for the LoCo to reach  out to the greater community and create a really cross organization event.
20:11:48 < Flannel> Even if the only people who attend are LoCo members who helped plan it, it's a success.
20:12:18 < Flannel> Mind you, we would like additional people to attend
20:12:30 < jdeslip> For the LoCo and Ubuntu to be an equal member of the community instead of only a leader.
20:13:01 < grantphone> all groups are made up of people, some groups overlap in unique ways.
20:13:30 < jdeslip> I think it would be received better if we allowed Local Groups to have an equal role in planning the event in their area is all
20:13:31 < grantphone> one person can wear different hats
20:14:26 < nhaines> jdeslip: this is one ofthe times where we try to focus on the distro and its community specifically.
20:14:29 < jdeslip> Again, I don't think I can in good faith ask members of those groups to attend an event they are not allowed any role in planning unless they sign up for the LoCo
20:14:43 < grantphone> with practice it gets easier
20:14:52 < nhaines> jdeslip: then don't, but that inot a requirement.
20:15:30 < jdeslip> Then the event is limited only to the LoCo when there is a chance of it incorporating a tremendous amount of people
20:15:40 < Flannel> Before we continue, is this discussion beneficial to have "during" the meeting? Or should we officially end the meeting, and then continue?
20:15:45 < nhaines> jdeslip: to the
20:15:58 < Flannel> I think we can safely skip discussion on the release party planning, seeing we've got even more time for that.
20:16:14 < jbermudes> sounds good
20:16:33 < Flannel> Any other thoughts on ending the meeting and continuing the discussion?
20:16:58 < rww> I don't mind either way. Would be nice to officially end relatively on-time for once, though.
20:17:35 < Flannel> Alright.  Lets go ahead and do that then.  Thank you all for coming.  Our next meeting will be held in two weeks, on the 23rd.
}}}