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Hope to see you online! {{{
19:03 < jdeslip> The agenda for the meeting is here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam/Meetings/10November07
19:04 < jdeslip> Please feel free to bring other subjects up between topics, but we'd like to keep these meetings to an hour or so
19:04 < jdeslip> The first topic is announcements.
19:04 < jdeslip> UDS was the week before last.
19:04 < pleia2> it's probably not worth going through every single one of them, but we've got a bunch of Ubuntu Hours coming up, they're all here: http://loco.ubuntu.com/teams/ubuntu-california
19:05 < jdeslip> pleia2: I plan to be there this wednesday (though maybe a little late)
19:05 < pleia2> yay
19:05 < grantbow> UDS was wonderful. DarkwingDuck and I were there.
19:05 < jdeslip> A couple of our team members were at UDS: grantbow, Darwking duck
19:05 < jdeslip> care to summarize?
19:06 < DarkwingDuck> `Sorry for a few min late
19:06 < grantbow> If you have been to one before you would know how hard that question is
19:06 < grantbow> one sec
19:06 < jdeslip> Well... I know the summary for me is: Banshee is default... and a bunch of other stuff was discussed.
19:07 < pleia2> yeah, I think answering that question is different for everyone, a lot of movement and changes on a lot of teams :)
19:07 < DarkwingDuck> To summerize... Alot of things happened. Banshee defaulted and starting in 11.04 Unity will be standard Desktop UI for Ubuntu
19:07 < pleia2> most of the teams have posted summaries on their respesctive mailing lists and blueprints
19:07 < grantbow> summit.ubuntu.com/uds-n/ has the schedule - all the audio recordings are available.
19:07 < jdeslip> grantbow: thanks!
19:07 < grantbow> Unity for 11.04 was the big announcement on Monday, yes.
19:07 < DarkwingDuck> Gnome desktop will still be around but, Unity will become the default
19:08 < grantbow> for hardware that supports acceleration Unity will be the default, right.
19:08 < DarkwingDuck> Kubuntu Community kicked off. If you want to get involved with Kubuntu let me know :)
19:08 *** grantbow cheers
19:09 < DarkwingDuck> Unity will also be switching to Compiz vice Mutter/Clutter
19:09 < jdeslip> Also since the last meeting, we have had an event at yahoo - raising the maverick lamp organized by aaditya
19:09 < jdeslip> with MarkDude presenting. Thanks guys for that!
19:10 < jdeslip> Ok, so lets move on to the next topic
19:10 < jdeslip> ------ Podcast Discussion kickoff (Format, Length, Tools, Topics)
19:10 < pleia2> didn't jtatum present too?
19:10 < jdeslip> oh... thanks jtatum too :)
19:10 < pleia2> slides of his are up on the wiki : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam/Projects/LightingTheMaverickLAMP
19:10 < MarkDude> Yes, his video was not recorded fully
19:11 < pleia2> MarkDude: can you link the video to that wiki page?
19:11 *** MarkDude hopes we can do it again, it had really good stuff
19:11 < MarkDude> just a min
19:11 < MarkDude> http://www.youtube.com/zareason#p/a/u/0/au7Vm88aVuU
19:12 < pleia2> who is here to talk about the podcast?
19:12 < pleia2> MarkDude: thanks, adding the link to the wiki now :)
19:12 < MarkDude> Cool
19:13 < jdeslip> I am not sure the person who posted the podcast agenda item is here
19:13 *** MarkDude knows that as of a while ago the Ubuntu UK folks said they willing to help with at least advice for podcast
19:13 < pleia2> ok, maybe we move on and come back to it if they pop up :)
19:14 < jdeslip> At this point I think we are basically waiting for interested parties to take charge on the podcast idea
19:14 < jdeslip> So, lets move on to item2
19:14 < jdeslip> err item 3
19:14 < jdeslip> ---------- Channel Ops discussion
19:14 < MarkDude> http://picasaweb.google.com/tuxwingsgroup/LightingTheMaverickLAMPYahoo#
19:15 < MarkDude> Pics of jtatum and I speaking and a few other folks
19:15 < pleia2> thanks MarkDude :)
19:15 < jdeslip> For the most part, this channel hasn't needed many Ops actions
19:16 < pleia2> so, the current the ops in this channel are the new leadership (so jdeslip, DarkwingDuck and myself)
19:16 < pleia2> topic updating, removing the very occasional troll
19:16 < jdeslip> (Flannel I believe mentioned two incidence) - but we'd like to open discussion up about how many Ops the channel should have, how they should be chosen etc...
19:17 < jdeslip> incidents
19:17 < grantbow> are nhaines or rww around?
19:18 < grantbow> I would like all sides to be heard for this discussion
19:18 < jdeslip> Are people happy with 3 Ops? Do you think we need to add more in order to better serve the channel?
19:18 *** MarkDude thinks the more the merrier, its hard to ops 24hrs a day, halfops can do a fair amount
19:19 < pleia2> MarkDude: freenode doesn't have halfops :)
19:19 < jbermudes> isn't that called a cyclops?
19:20 < seidos> it doesn't concern me either way. if i had ops, i wouldn't have any reason to ever use it
19:20 < MarkDude> +votiA vs +votsriRfA
19:20 < MarkDude> whatever the name
19:20 < Eureka> wiki: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam/Projects/LightingTheMaverickLAMP edited
19:20 < pleia2> MarkDude: it's just different flags, there is also the +F flag
19:21 < pleia2> I don't see a need for a lot of ops, but I'm willing to be convinced otherwise since I don't see the harm in having more volunteers to do things like update the topic after meetings
19:22 < pleia2> and as grantbow points out, it would be nice to hear from the ops who stepped down to see what they think
19:22 < jdeslip> OK, for now, I propose we leave it as it is. If the current system fails or someone brings up a strong argument against, we can reconsider. Feel free to write the mailing list. I also don't see why some who is interested and has the time to invest should be turned down.
19:22 < MarkDude> Well do the 3 of you cover all 24hrs in the day?
19:22 < jdeslip> pleia2, markdude: agreed
19:22 < DarkwingDuck> I'm logged in.
19:23 < DarkwingDuck> If Im AFK I have my phone number in my away message
19:23 < grantbow> sounds ok to me
19:23 < DarkwingDuck> call or text me and I can ssh into IRC from my phone 24/7
19:24 < pleia2> and maybe people interested in volunteering for ops should let us know
19:24 < pleia2> if they see a need
19:24 *** MarkDude disagrees, but not adamantly so. Nor do I want to be an op here
19:24 < pleia2> MarkDude: disagree with what?
19:24 < grantbow> MarkDude: please elaborate
19:25 *** MarkDude thinks it would be good to have a goal of 5-6 ops
19:25 < pleia2> based on?
19:25 < MarkDude> not needed, but, trolls have the weirdest times they show up
19:25 < grantbow> a reasonable goal. what's the advantage? more coverage?
19:25 < pleia2> fwiw, the IRCCouncil also has ops here
19:26 < pleia2> so you can always join #ubuntu-irc to ask for help too
19:26 < seidos> what's the disadvantage of having more ops?
19:26 < MarkDude> Just experience, with seeing how much hassle trolls can do in a short time
19:26 < pleia2> seidos: I don't see any really
19:26 < jdeslip> pleia2: agreed. Interested volunteers should let us know. If they have experience, interest and time and agree to abide by the Ubuntu Code, LoCo council and group decisions, then I don't see why not.
19:26 < grantbow> MarkDude: sounds like you are concerned about response time during an incidence
19:26 < pleia2> jdeslip: +1
19:26 < MarkDude> Yes grantbow
19:27 < seidos> jdeslip, +1
19:27 < seidos> if people want to apply for ops, because they think they can use it, then they should be able to
19:27 < MarkDude> Even if it just helps slow down one troll that is a good deal
19:27 < seidos> MarkDude, very elven of you
19:27 < jdeslip> So, the conclusion is - currently we have three and it has yet to fail. We'd like to hear suggestions from the former ops and are taking volunteers.
19:28 < pleia2> jdeslip: +1
19:28 < DarkwingDuck> jdeslip: +1
19:28 < grantbow> jdeslip: +1
19:28 < eps> I take it no one considers 24 hr. logging a deterrent?
19:28 < akk> jdeslip: +1
19:28 < MarkDude> BTW, sorry for being an a-hole recently. Sorry Cali Team
19:28 < pleia2> thanks MarkDude
19:28 < seidos> eps, i don't even think of the logging O_o
19:28 < jdeslip> With that, we'll move on to the next topic
19:28 < MarkDude> eps, with webclients being what they are- not really
19:28 < pleia2> eps: based on what I've seen here, trolls are pretty generic freenode trolls, they go everywhere regardless of logging
19:29 < jdeslip> --------- Website - What do we want to do with it?
19:29 < pleia2> I am not sure who was taking a lead with this
19:29 *** MarkDude votes for putting lots and lots of pictures of penguins on there, maybe some tech stuff also :D
19:29 < eps> Uh, monetize it?
19:29 *** akk seconds the penguin thing
19:29 < pleia2> we've done a lot of talking, came up with: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam/Projects/Website
19:30 < pleia2> we don't even have hosting yet :)
19:30 < pleia2> we have hosting *options* but no decisions as of yet
19:30 < jdeslip> pleia2: is there a possibility of some sort of official canonical hosting?
19:30 < jdeslip> err ubuntu community rather than canonical
19:30 < pleia2> the option I offer (Option 2) is a community option
19:31 < DarkwingDuck> I have plenty of space on my server as well...
19:31 < seidos> how about a link to the IRC log?
19:31 < pleia2> it's the server that hosts ubuntupennsylvania.org and ubuntu-us.org, runs 10.10, donated to me on behalf of the community by linode
19:31 < seidos> what are the benefits of canonical hosting?
19:31 < pleia2> it's free
19:32 < seidos> would it be easier to transfer ownership as well?
19:32 < jdeslip> pleia2: and yours isn't?
19:32 < pleia2> but it's hard to know how quickly they'd set it up, and they are notoriously slow
19:32 < pleia2> jdeslip: mine is too
19:32 < grantbow> Canonical hosting is provided by IS? Tickets are required for possible changes? I would not recommend that.
19:32 < pleia2> seidos: a selected member of the california community aside from me would be granted access to the linode interface as well as sudo on the box
19:32 < grantbow> from what I have heard
19:33 < eps> Is something like SFCCP (www.sfccp.net) out of the question?
19:33 < pleia2> grantbow: yeah, I have worked with IS for Ubuntu Women - we asked for a change on the wiki in July, it hasn't been done yet, this is normal :)
19:33 < pleia2> they don't answer requests very quickly, usually you have to track them down on IRC and nag for months
19:33 < grantbow> eps: not out of the question but not added to the wiki page yet either
19:34 < pleia2> eps: can you add that proposal to the wiki, with details?
19:34 < jdeslip> It is my impression that someone should set up a mock-site (or even an active site that is not fully advertised) and then let the group comment/critique it
19:34 < DarkwingDuck> I say +1 to where ubuntu-us and pennsylvania is hosted.
19:34 < pleia2> whatever we decide upon for hosting, we need at least one other member of the community with full admin access (this goes for the domain name we settle upon too)
19:34 < DarkwingDuck> Agreed
19:34 < dragon> How about using Google AppEngine for the website? Free hosting, decent capabilities.
19:34 < jdeslip> agreed
19:34 < grantbow> pleia2: +1
19:34 < pleia2> dragon: please add that proposal to the wiki with details :)
19:35 < dragon> pleia2: you got it :)
19:36 < jdeslip> So, how about we schedule a decision on our hosting provider at the next meeting?
19:36 < grantbow> fyi - ubuntu-us-ca.org works now and currently redirects to our wiki site. I'm happy to provide any access if it's chosen for use by the team.
19:36 < pleia2> jdeslip: re: mockup - that's tricky without knowing what our hosting is, I can only offer wordpress, app engine doesn't do wordpress, etc etc
19:36 < jdeslip> Then, we should call for mockups that contain that most of the info that has been suggested here.
19:36 < pleia2> (well, I can offer plain html too, but no joomla or drupal)
19:36 < eps> pleia2: that's a no ... I still can't log in to the wiki ... they haven't fixed the bug yet
19:37 < pleia2> eps: ah, maybe email me the text you would like in the proposal? lyz@ubuntu.com
19:37 < DarkwingDuck> grantbow: the way I understand we have several domain names and they will all end up pointing to the same place :)
19:37 < pleia2> I'll add it
19:37 < grantbow> DarkwingDuck: great
19:37 < pleia2> yeah, erichammond's domains are available for use too, those are all on the wiki
19:38 < pleia2> jdeslip: once we have info for all proposals, maybe email the list and we decide at our next meeting?
19:38 < pleia2> people can give input on list and at the meeting
19:38 < jdeslip> Sounds good.
19:39 < MarkDude> +1
19:39 < jdeslip> I figure after we decide on hosting knowledgable peopel can make basic mockups on any hosting they have available to them.
19:39 *** pleia2 nods
19:39 < DarkwingDuck> Agreed.
19:39 < grantbow> agreed
19:40 < dragon> Will people on the mailing list get a chance to provide their input (proposals etc.)?
19:40 < pleia2> dragon: yep, that's why we'll post it there
19:40 < DarkwingDuck> dragon: Yes... and that kinda brings us to the next item :)
19:40 *** pleia2 points to what she said a few lines up
19:40 < jdeslip> Yep. I think, even if you don't have html/wordpress etc experience you can still comment on design, content etc
19:41 *** dragon is obviously behind on his reading :)
19:41 < pleia2> yeah, and while I can do sysadmin stuff, I am useless at design
19:41 < pleia2> someone else for that would be good ;)
19:41 *** DarkwingDuck still thinks Drupal would be a good idea
19:41 < grantbow> pleia2: I disagree :-)
19:41 < dragon> drupal -1
19:41 < pleia2> drupal -1
19:41 < jdeslip> DarkwingDUck: good point - lets transition to the next topic
19:41 < jdeslip> ------------ Reaching out to those members in the State that are not on IRC and how to include them into the meeting process
19:41 < seidos> DarkwingDuck, do you have drupal site?
19:42 < DarkwingDuck> although, drupal has OpenID support...
19:42 < pleia2> so does wordpress
19:42 < DarkwingDuck> seidos: I work on 4
19:42 < DarkwingDuck> but I digress
19:42 < pleia2> DarkwingDuck: if you have a hosting proposal aside from canonical that can do drupal and meet our conditions, please feel free to add it :)
19:43 < seidos> DarkwingDuck, i'm interested in drupal. not sure what it can do for me that wordpress doesn't already though
19:43 < jdeslip> As DarkwingDuck pointed out. Commenting on possible web page designs is one good way to get participation from members of the group outside of IRC
19:43 < DarkwingDuck> Any hosting with PHP will handle drupal
19:43 < jdeslip> What are others?
19:43 < pleia2> DarkwingDuck: not if it doesn't have enough ram
19:43 < pleia2> anyway, sorry, moving on :)
19:43 < DarkwingDuck> Then I'll add my servers :D
19:43 < seidos> why moving on? i actually find this interesting
19:43 < seidos> :/
19:43 < grantbow> so much for moving on
19:44 < DarkwingDuck> seidos: I'll talk to you about drupal after meeting.
19:44 < seidos> eh, i don't want to obstruct the flow, i can research it later
19:44 < jdeslip> the next topic is discussing whether we are moving on or not :)
19:44 < pleia2> DarkwingDuck: if you're willing to give volunteers root on your server and access to the admin panel where you host it, feel free to add it
19:44 < pleia2> but we generally want to avoid personal hosting solutions, they tend to end badly for teams :(
19:44 < DarkwingDuck> Yeah, hence why I didn't add it to the wiki... plus my clients might not like it either.
19:45 < jdeslip> pleia2: +1
19:45 < seidos> i'm confused. what's a person hosting solution?
19:45 < grantbow> neutral shared hosting +1
19:45 < seidos> grantbow, there's such thing?
19:45 < pleia2> seidos: personal, hosting paid for and hosted by an individual (who may get hit by a bus)
19:45 < seidos> grantbow, aside from p2p style hosting?
19:46 < seidos> pleia2, so hosting on your server is actually hosted under a separate entity? a trust or a corporation?
19:46 < grantbow> siedos: as long as it's shared and people that care participate it works well
19:46 < seidos> grantbow, in terms of access then. all right.
19:47 < grantbow> seidos: in what other terms were you referring?
19:47 < pleia2> seidos: it's free from linode to the community (I am just a proxy), other members of the community will have access to the administrative panel and sudo on the box
19:47 < pleia2> seidos: there is no payment, so if I disappear it won't go away and someone else picks up the relationship with linode
19:48 < dragon> pleia2: getting hit by a bus shouldn't hurt as long as someone else holds the root access ;)
19:48 < seidos> grantbow, physical access, insurance that power wouldn't get turned off if "person gets hit by a bus"
19:48 < pleia2> dragon: if it's paid for hosting by an individual when they get hit by a bus their credit card turns off :)
19:48 < seidos> pleia2, ah free from linode to ubuntu california?
19:48 < pleia2> this is a VPS, so physical access is not a consideration
19:48 < grantbow> seidos: a good way to ensure that is with a professional hosting provider of some kind, right?
19:49 < pleia2> seidos: to ubuntu-us (currently hosting ubuntu-us.org, ubuntupennsylvania.org and the ubuntu pennsylvania bot)
19:49 < seidos> pleia2, so they'll add another site for free?
19:49 < pleia2> it's a VPS, they don't do anything, we edit the apache config to add more
19:49 < seidos> grantbow, yeah, sure, if you can acquire it gratis.
19:50 < seidos> pleia2, they provide hardware and bandwidth? that's something.
19:50 *** MarkDude has more trust in the team members here than say Canonical, any method would be suitable tho, as long we have some smooth way to do it :)
19:50 < pleia2> seidos: yep :)
19:50 < grantbow> seidos, right
19:50 < DarkwingDuck> Anyway, since I'll have to leave after the meeting and I have kids to put to bed... Any ideas on how we can include the ML better then we have in the past?
19:50 < pleia2> the linode folks are good about sponsoring community projects and events
19:50 < seidos> pleia2, should i even ask how you manage to get free hosting from linode?
19:50 < jdeslip> Ya, this discussing on hosting has been useful, but I think it is time to move on to the nexst topic
19:50 < grantbow> back to the agenda item #5
19:50 < pleia2> DarkwingDuck: we could always be more diligent about making sure events get posted to the list
19:51 < DarkwingDuck> I was thinking that and instead of making any desitions in IRC they should be made on the ML.
19:51 < pleia2> seidos: projects can email linode to request hosting
19:51 < pleia2> doh
19:51 < DarkwingDuck> They can be debated here but, I think the ML needs to be bigger then it has been.
19:52 < pleia2> all decisions?
19:52 < DarkwingDuck> It was something that was brought up at UDS
19:52 < grantbow> decisions?
19:52 < jdeslip> DarkwingDuck: the structure says that decisions can be made either on irc or mailing list
19:52 < grantbow> desitions = decisions?
19:52 < jdeslip> But, I think major decisions (such as hosting for the website) would be better on the list too
19:52 < DarkwingDuck> Yes, my spelling sucks.
19:52 < jdeslip> I think small event related discussions/decisions can stay on IRC
19:53 < pleia2> jdeslip: +1
19:53 < DarkwingDuck> My concerns stems from this...
19:53 < DarkwingDuck> What perrcentage of our team are here?
19:53 < pleia2> yeah, we certainly don't want to shut people out because they can't make it to a meeting
19:53 < grantbow> waiting for a mail list decision is far heavier weight than an IRC decision of people that are attending, involved and interested
19:54 < jdeslip> grantbow: +1
19:54 < akk> Agreed, DarkwingDuck. Anyone just on the ML and not here would be left out of a lot, and confused about a lot.
19:54 < grantbow> how decisions are made on a mail list will matter greatly
19:54 < akk> There's a lot that's really never explained on the list, and only makes sense to people who have seen the discussions here.
19:54 < grantbow> there needs to be some kind of balance
19:54 < pleia2> maybe when we plan meetings, we make sure people know that agenda items can be changed, and input added on the wiki, or ideas added on list to be considered during the meeting?
19:54 < DarkwingDuck> I just think we need to try and include the ML Members more then just the IRC ones.
19:55 < grantbow> DarkwingDuck: +1
19:55 < MarkDude> Well some items need to be at least mentioned in both
19:55 < jdeslip> I agree that major decisions can and should be made on the list. But I don't think people want an email several times a day about whether we need to change the table cloth cover at the next happy hour
19:55 < MarkDude> DarkwingDuck, +1
19:55 < pleia2> jdeslip: +1
19:55 < eps> Do we know _why_ people don't use IRC? Is it strictly a scheduling issue, or are there technical considerations?
19:56 < pleia2> don't know
19:56 < MarkDude> eps, the social stigma :D
19:56 < grantbow> forcing people to participate with IRC for all decisions -1, but let's be careful how far we swing back to balance in the other direction.
19:56 < DarkwingDuck> It might be a time thing.
19:56 < DarkwingDuck> 7pm on sunday with familys
19:56 < MarkDude> When I 1st started it felt like liturgical Latin
19:56 < jdeslip> Being on IRC takes somewhat of an anctive commitment to check the channel all the time. Email is a lot more passive and easier to handle.
19:56 < pleia2> yeah, it's frequently hard for me to be home by 7PM on sundays
19:56 < dragon> eps: personal preference would be one factor. It's a safe assumption that everyone uses email.
19:57 < DarkwingDuck> esp if they took the time to sign up for the ML
19:57 < dragon> Is there a possibility of rescheduling this meeting to a weekday?
19:57 < jdeslip> I think the main thing that we should do a better job at is talking about future events on the list and getting feedback.
19:57 < pleia2> dragon: or maybe one of the two monthly meetings to a weekday
19:57 < pleia2> jdeslip: yeah
19:58 < dragon> pleia2: that's a good idea
19:58 < DarkwingDuck> jdeslip: agreed. I'm not saying every detail should be on the ML but, I think it needs to be used better then it has in the past.
19:58 < jdeslip> Some of the events lately (one of which was the makerfaire event I planned) did a pretty poor job of this
19:58 < pleia2> DarkwingDuck: +1
19:59 < eps> dragon: not everyone wants their e-mail addresses to appear in a public archive; I get more than enough spam as it is
19:59 < pleia2> so maybe when we discuss things at meetings, we decide at the meeting whether we feel it's "major" and move discussion to the list as needed?
19:59 < MarkDude> Sounds hella reasonable
19:59 < akk> Wait, where does posting people's email addresses come in?
19:59 < DarkwingDuck> Or, an email with all the topics with links to the wiki logs of the meeting
20:00 < jdeslip> pleia2: sounds hella reasonable to me too
20:00 < DarkwingDuck> what?
20:00 < pleia2> eps: if people refuse to come on IRC and refuse to post to the mailing list, it gets very difficult, I'm not sure how we'd communicate (phone?)
20:00 < dragon> eps: where do the email addresses become visible to public?
20:00 < pleia2> dragon: lists.ubuntu.com doesn't mask email addresses in any fancy way
20:00 < eps> pleia2: I'm saying there are people who are OK with IRC but not e-mail
20:00 < dragon> pleia2: ouch.
20:00 < pleia2> eps: oh yes, discussion in meetings will still be part of the discussion, we're trying to include people on the ML more :)
20:01 < grantbow> eps: I think that's a relative minority
20:01 < akk> Are there really people who use IRC but won't use an email list?
20:01 < DarkwingDuck> I just see the amount of people active in here and I look at the number in LP and the ML.
20:01 < MarkDude> akk good point
20:01 < DarkwingDuck> there is a gross minority of our team in here for a meeting.
20:02 < pleia2> DarkwingDuck: to be fair, the majority don't care about administriva :)
20:02 < MarkDude> DarkwingDuck, same thing at the ballot box in our country-
20:02 < pleia2> MarkDude: that too
20:02 *** MarkDude is just sayin'
20:02 < jdeslip> OK - So lets use the website hosting and design decisions as a chance to test the mailing list decision process
20:02 < grantbow> DarkwingDuck: that's an important but potentially larger and separate topic from just getting more ML involvement compared to now
20:02 < pleia2> jdeslip: +1
20:02 < akk> jdeslip: +1
20:02 < jdeslip> And, everyone please try to get your events to the mailing list early and encourage feedback
20:02 *** MarkDude waves cane at non-voters
20:02 < eps> akk: you won't find any messages from me on the list because https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-us-ca/ doesn't obfuscate
20:03 < DarkwingDuck> Last item... Is there any intrest for a booth at SCaLE9X?
20:03 < eps> And I'm not entitled to an @ubuntu.com address
20:03 < pleia2> DarkwingDuck: yes!
20:03 < grantbow> eps: is there a bug for lists.ubuntu.com obfuscation yet? can you file one if there's isn't?
20:03 < jdeslip> Yes there is!
20:03 < MarkDude> DarkwingDuck, we are pretty much set for a table
20:04 < DarkwingDuck> I figured between MarkDude and Yasumoto we would
20:04 < grantbow> SCaLE9x +1
20:04 < jdeslip> Great
20:04 < DarkwingDuck> there going to be a carpool from the bay?
20:04 < pleia2> probably
20:04 < jdeslip> I would like to get in on such a carpool
20:04 < MarkDude> Gareth would also like people to know about CFP ending Dec 5th
20:05 *** MarkDude is at least going with 3 ppeople
20:05 < grantbow> http://www.socallinuxexpo.org/scale9x/
20:05 < grantbow> Fedb 25th - 27th
20:05 < grantbow> Feb
20:05 < jdeslip> About scale9x - Do we have a definite plan to get a table. Should we contact yasumoto?
20:05 < DarkwingDuck> jdeslip: Yasumoto pinged me the other day
20:05 < jdeslip> We should confirm this as soon as possible.
20:05 < DarkwingDuck> I said yes because me and my wife will be there.
20:06 < grantbow> oh, http://www.usenix.org/events/lisa10/index.html is this week in SJ, forgot about that.
20:06 < jdeslip> DarkwingDuck: Great. Can you confirm the table with him? Or do whatever registration is necessary?
20:06 < DarkwingDuck> jdeslip: Aye I will take care of that.
20:06 < jdeslip> DarkwingDuck: Thanks!
20:06 < pleia2> thanks DarkwingDuck
20:07 < DarkwingDuck> :D And with that... I have to put kids to bed.
20:07 < jdeslip> Who was in charge in the table last year? It would be great to get their advice on planning for this year?
20:07 < DarkwingDuck> I think Yasumoto and Flannel and nhaines were all involved.
20:07 < pleia2> scale CPF: https://www.socallinuxexpo.org/simple_cfp/
20:07 < jdeslip> DarkwingDuck Ok. Lets try to get their advice in the coming weeks.
20:07 < pleia2> CFP too
20:07 < grantbow> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam/Projects/Scale8x
20:07 < DarkwingDuck> nhaines also was talking about a ubucon again.
20:08 < DarkwingDuck> I'll have to get ahold of him and see if he was still interested in doing one.
20:08 < jdeslip> OK, thanks everyone for coming tonight. This ends tonights meeting.
20:08 < pleia2> thanks for chairing jdeslip :)
20:08 < DarkwingDuck> Thanks all!
20:09 < eps> How would people feel about changing the Projects section on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam to say 2011 instead of 2008?
20:09 < jdeslip> Please continue to discuss whatever it is you want!
20:09 < grantbow> Thanks everyone.
}}}

Sunday, November 7th, 2010, 7:00pm (1900) PST

Agenda

  1. Announcements - UDS, etc.

  2. Podcast Discussion kickoff (Format, Length, Tools, Topics) -- Prefer to keep the discussion high level at this point and work in separate groups later so people can volunteer available time.
  3. Channel Ops discussion: There is consensus in casual conversation that we want to add more, discuss, select some volunteers and get them added
  4. Website - What do we want to do with it?
  5. Reaching out to those members in the State that are not on IRC and how to include them into the meeting process
  6. SCALE - I know it is early but, never early to start planning

If you have anything else you'd like to add to the agenda, or want to make some changes, please feel free to edit it. Please include an explanation of your item if it's not immediately apparent.

Our meetings are held for about 90 minutes every other Sunday at 7:00pm (19:00) PST / 03:00 UTC in our IRC channel, #ubuntu-us-ca on freenode. All interested people are welcome to join us. For questions or help connecting, check out the InternetRelayChat page or use the Web client linked from the Contact page.

19:03 <         jdeslip> The agenda for the meeting is here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam/Meetings/10November07
19:04 <         jdeslip> Please feel free to bring other subjects up between topics, but we'd like to keep these meetings to an hour or so
19:04 <         jdeslip> The first topic is announcements.
19:04 <         jdeslip> UDS was the week before last.
19:04 <          pleia2> it's probably not worth going through every single one of them, but we've got a bunch of Ubuntu Hours coming up, they're all here: http://loco.ubuntu.com/teams/ubuntu-california
19:05 <         jdeslip> pleia2: I plan to be there this wednesday (though maybe a little late)
19:05 <          pleia2> yay
19:05 <        grantbow> UDS was wonderful.  DarkwingDuck and I were there.
19:05 <         jdeslip> A couple of our team members were at UDS: grantbow, Darwking duck
19:05 <         jdeslip> care to summarize?
19:06 <    DarkwingDuck> `Sorry for a few min late
19:06 <        grantbow> If you have been to one before you would know how hard that question is
19:06 <        grantbow> one sec
19:06 <         jdeslip> Well... I know the summary for me is: Banshee is default... and a bunch of other stuff was discussed.
19:07 <          pleia2> yeah, I think answering that question is different for everyone, a lot of movement and changes on a lot of teams :)
19:07 <    DarkwingDuck> To summerize... Alot of things happened. Banshee defaulted and starting in 11.04 Unity will be standard Desktop UI for Ubuntu
19:07 <          pleia2> most of the teams have posted summaries on their respesctive mailing lists and blueprints
19:07 <        grantbow> summit.ubuntu.com/uds-n/ has the schedule - all the audio recordings are available.
19:07 <         jdeslip> grantbow: thanks!
19:07 <        grantbow> Unity for 11.04 was the big announcement on Monday, yes.
19:07 <    DarkwingDuck> Gnome desktop will still be around but, Unity will become the default
19:08 <        grantbow> for hardware that supports acceleration Unity will be the default, right.
19:08 <    DarkwingDuck> Kubuntu Community kicked off. If you want to get involved with Kubuntu let me know :)
19:08 *** grantbow cheers
19:09 <    DarkwingDuck> Unity will also be switching to Compiz vice Mutter/Clutter
19:09 <         jdeslip> Also since the last meeting, we have had an event at yahoo - raising the maverick lamp organized by aaditya
19:09 <         jdeslip> with MarkDude presenting.  Thanks guys for that!
19:10 <         jdeslip> Ok, so lets move on to the next topic
19:10 <         jdeslip> ------ Podcast Discussion kickoff (Format, Length, Tools, Topics)
19:10 <          pleia2> didn't jtatum present too?
19:10 <         jdeslip> oh... thanks jtatum too :)
19:10 <          pleia2> slides of his are up on the wiki : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam/Projects/LightingTheMaverickLAMP
19:10 <        MarkDude> Yes, his video was not recorded fully
19:11 <          pleia2> MarkDude: can you link the video to that wiki page?
19:11 *** MarkDude hopes we can do it again, it had really good stuff
19:11 <        MarkDude> just a min
19:11 <        MarkDude> http://www.youtube.com/zareason#p/a/u/0/au7Vm88aVuU
19:12 <          pleia2> who is here to talk about the podcast?
19:12 <          pleia2> MarkDude: thanks, adding the link to the wiki now :)
19:12 <        MarkDude> Cool
19:13 <         jdeslip> I am not sure the person who posted the podcast agenda item is here
19:13 *** MarkDude knows that as of a while ago the Ubuntu UK folks said they willing to help with at least advice for podcast
19:13 <          pleia2> ok, maybe we move on and come back to it if they pop up :)
19:14 <         jdeslip> At this point I think we are basically waiting for interested parties to take charge on the podcast idea
19:14 <         jdeslip> So, lets move on to item2
19:14 <         jdeslip> err item 3
19:14 <         jdeslip> ---------- Channel Ops discussion
19:14 <        MarkDude> http://picasaweb.google.com/tuxwingsgroup/LightingTheMaverickLAMPYahoo#
19:15 <        MarkDude> Pics of jtatum and I speaking and a few other folks
19:15 <          pleia2> thanks MarkDude :)
19:15 <         jdeslip> For the most part, this channel hasn't needed many Ops actions
19:16 <          pleia2> so, the current the ops in this channel are the new leadership (so jdeslip, DarkwingDuck and myself)
19:16 <          pleia2> topic updating, removing the very occasional troll
19:16 <         jdeslip> (Flannel I believe mentioned two incidence) - but we'd like to open discussion up about how many Ops the channel should have, how they should be chosen etc...
19:17 <         jdeslip> incidents
19:17 <        grantbow> are nhaines or rww around?
19:18 <        grantbow> I would like all sides to be heard for this discussion
19:18 <         jdeslip> Are people happy with 3 Ops?  Do you think we need to add more in order to better serve the channel?
19:18 *** MarkDude thinks the more the merrier, its hard to ops 24hrs a day, halfops can do a fair amount
19:19 <          pleia2> MarkDude: freenode doesn't have halfops :)
19:19 <       jbermudes> isn't that called a cyclops?
19:20 <          seidos> it doesn't concern me either way.  if i had ops, i wouldn't have any reason to ever use it
19:20 <        MarkDude> +votiA vs +votsriRfA
19:20 <        MarkDude> whatever the name
19:20 <          Eureka> wiki: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam/Projects/LightingTheMaverickLAMP edited
19:20 <          pleia2> MarkDude: it's just different flags, there is also the +F flag
19:21 <          pleia2> I don't see a need for a lot of ops, but I'm willing to be convinced otherwise since I don't see the harm in having more volunteers to do things like update the topic after meetings
19:22 <          pleia2> and as grantbow points out, it would be nice to hear from the ops who stepped down to see what they think
19:22 <         jdeslip> OK, for now, I propose we leave it as it is.  If the current system fails or someone brings up a strong argument against, we can reconsider.  Feel free to write the mailing list.  I also don't see why some who is interested and has the time to invest should be turned down.
19:22 <        MarkDude> Well do the 3 of you cover all 24hrs in the day?
19:22 <         jdeslip> pleia2, markdude: agreed
19:22 <    DarkwingDuck> I'm logged in.
19:23 <    DarkwingDuck> If Im AFK I have my phone number in my away message
19:23 <        grantbow> sounds ok to me
19:23 <    DarkwingDuck> call or text me and I can ssh into IRC from my phone 24/7
19:24 <          pleia2> and maybe people interested in volunteering for ops should let us know
19:24 <          pleia2> if they see a need
19:24 *** MarkDude disagrees, but not adamantly so. Nor do I want to be an op here
19:24 <          pleia2> MarkDude: disagree with what?
19:24 <        grantbow> MarkDude: please elaborate
19:25 *** MarkDude thinks it would be good to have a goal of 5-6 ops
19:25 <          pleia2> based on?
19:25 <        MarkDude> not needed, but, trolls have the weirdest times they show up
19:25 <        grantbow> a reasonable goal. what's the advantage? more coverage?
19:25 <          pleia2> fwiw, the IRCCouncil also has ops here
19:26 <          pleia2> so you can always join #ubuntu-irc to ask for help too
19:26 <          seidos> what's the disadvantage of having more ops?
19:26 <        MarkDude> Just experience, with seeing how much hassle trolls can do in a short time
19:26 <          pleia2> seidos: I don't see any really
19:26 <         jdeslip> pleia2: agreed.  Interested volunteers should let us know.  If they have experience, interest and time and agree to abide by the Ubuntu Code, LoCo council and group decisions, then I don't see why not.
19:26 <        grantbow> MarkDude: sounds like you are concerned about response time during an incidence
19:26 <          pleia2> jdeslip: +1
19:26 <        MarkDude> Yes grantbow
19:27 <          seidos> jdeslip, +1
19:27 <          seidos> if people want to apply for ops, because they think they can use it, then they should be able to
19:27 <        MarkDude> Even if it just helps slow down one troll that is a good deal
19:27 <          seidos> MarkDude, very elven of you
19:27 <         jdeslip> So, the conclusion is - currently we have three and it has yet to fail.  We'd like to hear suggestions from the former ops and are taking volunteers.
19:28 <          pleia2> jdeslip: +1
19:28 <    DarkwingDuck> jdeslip: +1
19:28 <        grantbow> jdeslip: +1
19:28 <             eps> I take it no one considers 24 hr. logging a deterrent?
19:28 <             akk> jdeslip: +1
19:28 <        MarkDude> BTW, sorry for being an a-hole recently. Sorry Cali Team
19:28 <          pleia2> thanks MarkDude
19:28 <          seidos> eps, i don't even think of the logging O_o
19:28 <         jdeslip> With that, we'll move on to the next topic
19:28 <        MarkDude> eps,  with webclients being what they are- not really
19:28 <          pleia2> eps: based on what I've seen here, trolls are pretty generic freenode trolls, they go everywhere regardless of logging
19:29 <         jdeslip> --------- Website - What do we want to do with it?
19:29 <          pleia2> I am not sure who was taking a lead with this
19:29 *** MarkDude votes for putting lots and lots of pictures of penguins on there, maybe some tech stuff also :D
19:29 <             eps> Uh, monetize it?
19:29 *** akk seconds the penguin thing
19:29 <          pleia2> we've done a lot of talking, came up with: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam/Projects/Website
19:30 <          pleia2> we don't even have hosting yet :)
19:30 <          pleia2> we have hosting *options* but no decisions as of yet
19:30 <         jdeslip> pleia2: is there a possibility of some sort of official canonical hosting?
19:30 <         jdeslip> err ubuntu community rather than canonical
19:30 <          pleia2> the option I offer (Option 2) is a community option
19:31 <    DarkwingDuck> I have plenty of space on my server as well...
19:31 <          seidos> how about a link to the IRC log?
19:31 <          pleia2> it's the server that hosts ubuntupennsylvania.org and ubuntu-us.org, runs 10.10, donated to me on behalf of the community by linode
19:31 <          seidos> what are the benefits of canonical hosting?
19:31 <          pleia2> it's free
19:32 <          seidos> would it be easier to transfer ownership as well?
19:32 <         jdeslip> pleia2: and yours isn't?
19:32 <          pleia2> but it's hard to know how quickly they'd set it up, and they are notoriously slow
19:32 <          pleia2> jdeslip: mine is too
19:32 <        grantbow> Canonical hosting is provided by IS? Tickets are required for possible changes? I would not recommend that.
19:32 <          pleia2> seidos: a selected member of the california community aside from me would be granted access to the linode interface as well as sudo on the box
19:32 <        grantbow> from what I have heard
19:33 <             eps> Is something like SFCCP (www.sfccp.net) out of the question?
19:33 <          pleia2> grantbow: yeah, I have worked with IS for Ubuntu Women - we asked for a change on the wiki in July, it hasn't been done yet, this is normal :)
19:33 <          pleia2> they don't answer requests very quickly, usually you have to track them down on IRC and nag for months
19:33 <        grantbow> eps: not out of the question but not added to the wiki page yet either
19:34 <          pleia2> eps: can you add that proposal to the wiki, with details?
19:34 <         jdeslip> It is my impression that someone should set up a mock-site (or even an active site that is not fully advertised) and then let the group comment/critique it
19:34 <    DarkwingDuck> I say +1 to where ubuntu-us and pennsylvania is hosted.
19:34 <          pleia2> whatever we decide upon for hosting, we need at least one other member of the community with full admin access (this goes for the domain name we settle upon too)
19:34 <    DarkwingDuck> Agreed
19:34 <          dragon> How about using Google AppEngine for the website? Free hosting, decent capabilities.
19:34 <         jdeslip> agreed
19:34 <        grantbow> pleia2: +1
19:34 <          pleia2> dragon: please add that proposal to the wiki with details :)
19:35 <          dragon> pleia2: you got it :)
19:36 <         jdeslip> So, how about we schedule a decision on our hosting provider at the next meeting?
19:36 <        grantbow> fyi - ubuntu-us-ca.org works now and currently redirects to our wiki site. I'm happy to provide any access if it's chosen for use by the team.
19:36 <          pleia2> jdeslip: re: mockup - that's tricky without knowing what our hosting is, I can only offer wordpress, app engine doesn't do wordpress, etc etc
19:36 <         jdeslip> Then, we should call for mockups that contain that most of the info that has been suggested here.
19:36 <          pleia2> (well, I can offer plain html too, but no joomla or drupal)
19:36 <             eps> pleia2: that's a no ... I still can't log in to the wiki ... they haven't fixed the bug yet
19:37 <          pleia2> eps: ah, maybe email me the text you would like in the proposal? lyz@ubuntu.com
19:37 <    DarkwingDuck> grantbow: the way I understand we have several domain names and they will all end up pointing to the same place :)
19:37 <          pleia2> I'll add it
19:37 <        grantbow> DarkwingDuck: great
19:37 <          pleia2> yeah, erichammond's domains are available for use too, those are all on the wiki
19:38 <          pleia2> jdeslip: once we have info for all proposals, maybe email the list and we decide at our next meeting?
19:38 <          pleia2> people can give input on list and at the meeting
19:38 <         jdeslip> Sounds good.
19:39 <        MarkDude> +1
19:39 <         jdeslip> I figure after we decide on hosting knowledgable peopel can make basic mockups on any hosting they have available to them.
19:39 *** pleia2 nods
19:39 <    DarkwingDuck> Agreed.
19:39 <        grantbow> agreed
19:40 <          dragon> Will people on the mailing list get a chance to provide their input (proposals etc.)?
19:40 <          pleia2> dragon: yep, that's why we'll post it there
19:40 <    DarkwingDuck> dragon: Yes... and that kinda brings us to the next item :)
19:40 *** pleia2 points to what she said a few lines up
19:40 <         jdeslip> Yep.  I think, even if you don't have html/wordpress etc experience you can still comment on design, content etc
19:41 *** dragon is obviously behind on his reading :)
19:41 <          pleia2> yeah, and while I can do sysadmin stuff, I am useless at design
19:41 <          pleia2> someone else for that would be good ;)
19:41 *** DarkwingDuck still thinks Drupal would be a good idea
19:41 <        grantbow> pleia2: I disagree :-)
19:41 <          dragon> drupal -1
19:41 <          pleia2> drupal -1
19:41 <         jdeslip> DarkwingDUck: good point - lets transition to the next topic
19:41 <         jdeslip> ------------ Reaching out to those members in the State that are not on IRC and how to include them into the meeting process
19:41 <          seidos> DarkwingDuck, do you have drupal site?
19:42 <    DarkwingDuck> although, drupal has OpenID support...
19:42 <          pleia2> so does wordpress
19:42 <    DarkwingDuck> seidos: I work on 4
19:42 <    DarkwingDuck> but I digress
19:42 <          pleia2> DarkwingDuck: if you have a hosting proposal aside from canonical that can do drupal and meet our conditions, please feel free to add it :)
19:43 <          seidos> DarkwingDuck, i'm interested in drupal.  not sure what it can do for me that wordpress doesn't already though
19:43 <         jdeslip> As DarkwingDuck pointed out.  Commenting on possible web page designs is one good way to get participation from members of the group outside of IRC
19:43 <    DarkwingDuck> Any hosting with PHP will handle drupal
19:43 <         jdeslip> What are others?
19:43 <          pleia2> DarkwingDuck: not if it doesn't have enough ram
19:43 <          pleia2> anyway, sorry, moving on :)
19:43 <    DarkwingDuck> Then I'll add my servers :D
19:43 <          seidos> why moving on?  i actually find this interesting
19:43 <          seidos> :/
19:43 <        grantbow> so much for moving on
19:44 <    DarkwingDuck> seidos: I'll talk to you about drupal after meeting.
19:44 <          seidos> eh, i don't want to obstruct the flow, i can research it later
19:44 <         jdeslip> the next topic is discussing whether we are moving on or not :)
19:44 <          pleia2> DarkwingDuck: if you're willing to give volunteers root on your server and access to the admin panel where you host it, feel free to add it
19:44 <          pleia2> but we generally want to avoid personal hosting solutions, they tend to end badly for teams :(
19:44 <    DarkwingDuck> Yeah, hence why I didn't add it to the wiki... plus my clients might not like it either.
19:45 <         jdeslip> pleia2: +1
19:45 <          seidos> i'm confused.  what's a person hosting solution?
19:45 <        grantbow> neutral shared hosting +1
19:45 <          seidos> grantbow, there's such thing?
19:45 <          pleia2> seidos: personal, hosting paid for and hosted by an individual (who may get hit by a bus)
19:45 <          seidos> grantbow, aside from p2p style hosting?
19:46 <          seidos> pleia2, so hosting on your server is actually hosted under a separate entity?  a trust or a corporation?
19:46 <        grantbow> siedos: as long as it's shared and people that care participate it works well
19:46 <          seidos> grantbow, in terms of access then.  all right.
19:47 <        grantbow> seidos: in what other terms were you referring?
19:47 <          pleia2> seidos: it's free from linode to the community (I am just a proxy), other members of the community will have access to the administrative panel and sudo on the box
19:47 <          pleia2> seidos: there is no payment, so if I disappear it won't go away and someone else picks up the relationship with linode
19:48 <          dragon> pleia2: getting hit by a bus shouldn't hurt as long as someone else holds the root access ;)
19:48 <          seidos> grantbow, physical access, insurance that power wouldn't get turned off if "person gets hit by a bus"
19:48 <          pleia2> dragon: if it's paid for hosting by an individual when they get hit by a bus their credit card turns off :)
19:48 <          seidos> pleia2, ah free from linode to ubuntu california?
19:48 <          pleia2> this is a VPS, so physical access is not a consideration
19:48 <        grantbow> seidos: a good way to ensure that is with a professional hosting provider of some kind, right?
19:49 <          pleia2> seidos: to ubuntu-us (currently hosting ubuntu-us.org, ubuntupennsylvania.org and the ubuntu pennsylvania bot)
19:49 <          seidos> pleia2, so they'll add another site for free?
19:49 <          pleia2> it's a VPS, they don't do anything, we edit the apache config to add more
19:49 <          seidos> grantbow, yeah, sure, if you can acquire it gratis.
19:50 <          seidos> pleia2, they provide hardware and bandwidth?  that's something.
19:50 *** MarkDude has more trust in the team members here than say Canonical, any method would be suitable tho, as long we have some smooth way to do it :)
19:50 <          pleia2> seidos: yep :)
19:50 <        grantbow> seidos, right
19:50 <    DarkwingDuck> Anyway, since I'll have to leave after the meeting and I have kids to put to bed... Any ideas on how we can include the ML better then we have in the past?
19:50 <          pleia2> the linode folks are good about sponsoring community projects and events
19:50 <          seidos> pleia2, should i even ask how you manage to get free hosting from linode?
19:50 <         jdeslip> Ya, this discussing on hosting has been useful, but I think it is time to move on to the nexst topic
19:50 <        grantbow> back to the agenda item #5
19:50 <          pleia2> DarkwingDuck: we could always be more diligent about making sure events get posted to the list
19:51 <    DarkwingDuck> I was thinking that and instead of making any desitions in IRC they should be made on the ML.
19:51 <          pleia2> seidos: projects can email linode to request hosting
19:51 <          pleia2> doh
19:51 <    DarkwingDuck> They can be debated here but, I think the ML needs to be bigger then it has been.
19:52 <          pleia2> all decisions?
19:52 <    DarkwingDuck> It was something that was brought up at UDS
19:52 <        grantbow> decisions?
19:52 <         jdeslip> DarkwingDuck: the structure says that decisions can be made either on irc or mailing list
19:52 <        grantbow> desitions = decisions?
19:52 <         jdeslip> But, I think major decisions (such as hosting for the website) would be better on the list too
19:52 <    DarkwingDuck> Yes, my spelling sucks.
19:52 <         jdeslip> I think small event related discussions/decisions can stay on IRC
19:53 <          pleia2> jdeslip: +1
19:53 <    DarkwingDuck> My concerns stems from this...
19:53 <    DarkwingDuck> What perrcentage of our team are here?
19:53 <          pleia2> yeah, we certainly don't want to shut people out because they can't make it to a meeting
19:53 <        grantbow> waiting for a mail list decision is far heavier weight than an IRC decision of people that are attending, involved and interested
19:54 <         jdeslip> grantbow: +1
19:54 <             akk> Agreed, DarkwingDuck. Anyone just on the ML and not here would be left out of a lot, and confused about a lot.
19:54 <        grantbow> how decisions are made on a mail list will matter greatly
19:54 <             akk> There's a lot that's really never explained on the list, and only makes sense to people who have seen the discussions here.
19:54 <        grantbow> there needs to be some kind of balance
19:54 <          pleia2> maybe when we plan meetings, we make sure people know that agenda items can be changed, and input added on the wiki, or ideas added on list to be considered during the meeting?
19:54 <    DarkwingDuck> I just think we need to try and include the ML Members more then just the IRC ones.
19:55 <        grantbow> DarkwingDuck: +1
19:55 <        MarkDude> Well some items need to be at least mentioned in both
19:55 <         jdeslip> I agree that major decisions can and should be made on the list.  But I don't think people want an email several times a day about whether we need to change the table cloth cover at the next happy hour
19:55 <        MarkDude> DarkwingDuck, +1
19:55 <          pleia2> jdeslip: +1
19:55 <             eps> Do we know _why_ people don't use IRC? Is it strictly a scheduling issue, or are there technical considerations?
19:56 <          pleia2> don't know
19:56 <        MarkDude> eps, the social stigma :D
19:56 <        grantbow> forcing people to participate with IRC for all decisions -1, but let's be careful how far we swing back to balance in the other direction.
19:56 <    DarkwingDuck> It might be a time thing.
19:56 <    DarkwingDuck> 7pm on sunday with familys
19:56 <        MarkDude> When I 1st started it felt like liturgical Latin
19:56 <         jdeslip> Being on IRC takes somewhat of an anctive commitment to check the channel all the time.  Email is a lot more passive and easier to handle.
19:56 <          pleia2> yeah, it's frequently hard for me to be home by 7PM on sundays
19:56 <          dragon> eps: personal preference would be one factor. It's a safe assumption that everyone uses email.
19:57 <    DarkwingDuck> esp if they took the time to sign up for the ML
19:57 <          dragon> Is there a possibility of rescheduling this meeting to a weekday?
19:57 <         jdeslip> I think the main thing that we should do a better job at is talking about future events on the list and getting feedback.
19:57 <          pleia2> dragon: or maybe one of the two monthly meetings to a weekday
19:57 <          pleia2> jdeslip: yeah
19:58 <          dragon> pleia2: that's a good idea
19:58 <    DarkwingDuck> jdeslip: agreed. I'm not saying every detail should be on the ML but, I think it needs to be used better then it has in the past.
19:58 <         jdeslip> Some of the events lately (one of which was the makerfaire event I planned) did a pretty poor job of this
19:58 <          pleia2> DarkwingDuck: +1
19:59 <             eps> dragon: not everyone wants their e-mail addresses to appear in a public archive; I get more than enough spam as it is
19:59 <          pleia2> so maybe when we discuss things at meetings, we decide at the meeting whether we feel it's "major" and move discussion to the list as needed?
19:59 <        MarkDude> Sounds hella reasonable
19:59 <             akk> Wait, where does posting people's email addresses come in?
19:59 <    DarkwingDuck> Or, an email with all the topics with links to the wiki logs of the meeting
20:00 <         jdeslip> pleia2: sounds hella reasonable to me too
20:00 <    DarkwingDuck> what?
20:00 <          pleia2> eps: if people refuse to come on IRC and refuse to post to the mailing list, it gets very difficult, I'm not sure how we'd communicate (phone?)
20:00 <          dragon> eps: where do the email addresses become visible to public?
20:00 <          pleia2> dragon: lists.ubuntu.com doesn't mask email addresses in any fancy way
20:00 <             eps> pleia2: I'm saying there are people who are OK with IRC but not e-mail
20:00 <          dragon> pleia2: ouch.
20:00 <          pleia2> eps: oh yes, discussion in meetings will still be part of the discussion, we're trying to include people on the ML more :)
20:01 <        grantbow> eps: I think that's a relative minority
20:01 <             akk> Are there really people who use IRC but won't use an email list?
20:01 <    DarkwingDuck> I just see the amount of people active in here and I look at the number in LP and the ML.
20:01 <        MarkDude> akk good point
20:01 <    DarkwingDuck> there is a gross minority of our team in here for a meeting.
20:02 <          pleia2> DarkwingDuck: to be fair, the majority don't care about administriva :)
20:02 <        MarkDude> DarkwingDuck, same thing at the ballot box in our country-
20:02 <          pleia2> MarkDude: that too
20:02 *** MarkDude is just sayin'
20:02 <         jdeslip> OK - So lets use the website hosting and design decisions as a chance to test the mailing list decision process
20:02 <        grantbow> DarkwingDuck: that's an important but potentially larger and separate topic from just getting more ML involvement compared to now
20:02 <          pleia2> jdeslip: +1
20:02 <             akk> jdeslip: +1
20:02 <         jdeslip> And, everyone please try to get your events to the mailing list early and encourage feedback
20:02 *** MarkDude waves cane at non-voters
20:02 <             eps> akk: you won't find any messages from me on the list because https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-us-ca/ doesn't obfuscate
20:03 <    DarkwingDuck> Last item... Is there any intrest for a booth at SCaLE9X?
20:03 <             eps> And I'm not entitled to an @ubuntu.com address
20:03 <          pleia2> DarkwingDuck: yes!
20:03 <        grantbow> eps: is there a bug for lists.ubuntu.com obfuscation yet? can you file one if there's isn't?
20:03 <         jdeslip> Yes there is!
20:03 <        MarkDude> DarkwingDuck, we are pretty much set for a table
20:04 <    DarkwingDuck> I figured between MarkDude and Yasumoto we would
20:04 <        grantbow> SCaLE9x +1
20:04 <         jdeslip> Great
20:04 <    DarkwingDuck> there going to be a carpool from the bay?
20:04 <          pleia2> probably
20:04 <         jdeslip> I would like to get in on such a carpool
20:04 <        MarkDude> Gareth would also like people to know about CFP ending Dec 5th
20:05 *** MarkDude is at least going with 3 ppeople
20:05 <        grantbow> http://www.socallinuxexpo.org/scale9x/
20:05 <        grantbow> Fedb 25th - 27th
20:05 <        grantbow> Feb
20:05 <         jdeslip> About scale9x - Do we have a definite plan to get a table.  Should we contact yasumoto?
20:05 <    DarkwingDuck> jdeslip: Yasumoto pinged me the other day
20:05 <         jdeslip> We should confirm this as soon as possible.
20:05 <    DarkwingDuck> I said yes because me and my wife will be there.
20:06 <        grantbow> oh, http://www.usenix.org/events/lisa10/index.html is this week in SJ, forgot about that.
20:06 <         jdeslip> DarkwingDuck: Great.  Can you confirm the table with him?  Or do whatever registration is necessary?
20:06 <    DarkwingDuck> jdeslip: Aye I will take care of that.
20:06 <         jdeslip> DarkwingDuck: Thanks!
20:06 <          pleia2> thanks DarkwingDuck
20:07 <    DarkwingDuck> :D And with that... I have to put kids to bed.
20:07 <         jdeslip> Who was in charge in the table last year?  It would be great to get their advice on planning for this year?
20:07 <    DarkwingDuck> I think Yasumoto and Flannel and nhaines were all involved.
20:07 <          pleia2> scale CPF: https://www.socallinuxexpo.org/simple_cfp/
20:07 <         jdeslip> DarkwingDuck Ok. Lets try to get their advice in the coming weeks.
20:07 <          pleia2> CFP too
20:07 <        grantbow> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam/Projects/Scale8x
20:07 <    DarkwingDuck> nhaines also was talking about a ubucon again.
20:08 <    DarkwingDuck> I'll have to get ahold of him and see if he was still interested in doing one.
20:08 <         jdeslip> OK, thanks everyone for coming tonight.  This ends tonights meeting.
20:08 <          pleia2> thanks for chairing jdeslip :)
20:08 <    DarkwingDuck> Thanks all!
20:09 <             eps> How would people feel about changing the Projects section on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam to say 2011 instead of 2008?
20:09 <         jdeslip> Please continue to discuss whatever it is you want!
20:09 <        grantbow> Thanks everyone.

CaliforniaTeam/Meetings/10November07 (last edited 2010-11-08 05:19:08 by adsl-68-127-161-175)