Meeting 2008 Dec 3rd

• Meeting Topic - Coordination with Beginners Team Education Focus Group

Team Page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom
Meeting Minutes by: Elizabeth Krumbach

Present

The following were present during this meeting:

• bodhi_zazen
• dinda
• pleia2

• PrivateVoid

• Rocket2DMn

Proceedings

• bodhi_zazen and PrivateVoid presented that The Beginners Team Education Focus Group in interested in assisting with #ubuntu-classroom

• PrivateVoid explained:

  • We would like to run classes that are wiki/forum based with IRC sessions, and IRC based classes, and IRC based Q&A sessions.

  • The type of 'class' I view as a candidate for the mixed sessions is a programming class. The lesson material and assignments are on the wiki or forum and the 'instructor' is available one night a week in IRC.

  • We are building a resources component of the wiki which links people to resources, but those resources do not answer all the questions... that is what the Q&A sessions would be for

• bodhi_zazen elaborated:
  • Well, the BT is, IMO, not only a resource for beginners on the forums, but I see it as a way of encouraging people to become more involved with the Ubuntu community
  • so our members may go to Launchpad, MOTU, wiki, and classroom
• pleia2 explained that Ubuntu Classroom was primarily an IRC-based initiative at the moment due to the size of the project, so BT is welcome to use the Classroom resources for their IRC classes: "so I'm thinking you get these up and running, and when you want to host one drop a note to ubuntu-classroom list to get put on the wiki schedule (or just add it yourself)"
• pleia2 also explained that Classroom used to host their own classes as part of the project, but delegating regular classes to the BT might be worthwhile for both projects, Classroom itself can focus on coordination of events in the channel and help with promotion

• The Beginners Team has started a Call For Classes thread in their forum for topic suggestions and recruiting

• They will begin with some Q&A sessions, which they will tell Classroom about so they can help with promotion, pleia2 shared the Classroom/Guidelines as some structure for how the classes might be held

• In the future we will discuss expanding the role of Classroom itself beyond IRC, PrivateVoid mentioned other teaching options, including use of Moodle

Discussion

20:00 < pleia2> okies, meeting time :)
20:00 < pleia2> Agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom/MeetingAgenda2008Dec3
20:00 < pleia2> so, who all is here?
20:00 < pleia2> introduce yourselfs! :)
20:01 < pleia2> yourselves too
20:01  * PrivateVoid PrivateVoid nods
20:01 < PrivateVoid> hello everyone!
20:01 < Rocket2DMn> I'm just here to watch (I think)
20:01 < spiderbatdad> err
20:01 < bodhi_zazen> Hello classsroom :)
20:02 < pleia2> hey bodhi_zazen 
20:02 < bodhi_zazen> The Beginners team in interested in assisting with #ubuntu-classroom :)
20:02 < pleia2> we can start out with that
20:03 < pleia2> so currently, ubuntu-classroom is mostly a basic project to help teams host courses in irc - we hold sessions here so there is a centralized location, help put folks in touch with resources for promotion
20:03 < bodhi_zazen> Sounds awesome
20:04 < pleia2> we also intended to do our own general sessions, which is pretty much the same mandate as the beginners education team
20:04 < bodhi_zazen> And we can help guide people to IRC (from forums mostly)
20:04 < pleia2> (early on when classroom was founded we did our own)
20:04 < pleia2> bodhi_zazen: nice :)
20:04 < pleia2> so lately we don't have the humanpower to run our own courses, so mostly it's just been a coordination and promotion thing
20:05 < bodhi_zazen> We can help coordinate on the forums and we have some members who would like to instruct as well
20:05 < pleia2> excellent
20:05 < pleia2> Classroom doesn't currently have a forums contingent, and I'm not much of a forums person so I've never pushed it, but it's a great resource
20:06 < bodhi_zazen> I am afraid I am stealing PrivateVoid's thunder here, PrivateVoid has done some outstanding footwork
20:06 < PrivateVoid> The beginners team has an education focus group - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/FocusGroups/Education
20:06 < PrivateVoid> We would like to run classes that are wiki/forum based with IRC sessions, and IRC based classes, and IRC based Q&A sessions.
20:06 < PrivateVoid> The type of 'class' I view as a candidate for the mixed sessions is a programming class. The lesson material and assignments are on the wiki or forum and the 'instructor' is available one night a week in IRC.
20:07 < PrivateVoid> We are building a resources component of the wiki which links people to resources, but those resources do not answer all the questions... that is what the Q&A sessions would be for
20:07 < bodhi_zazen> Well, the BT is, IMO, not only a resource for beginners on the forums, but I see it as a way of encouraging people to become more involved with the Ubuntu community
20:07 < PrivateVoid> I currently have a thread on the forums asking people what they would like to see 'taught'
20:07 < bodhi_zazen> so our members may go to Launchpad, MOTU, wiki, and classroot
20:07 < bodhi_zazen> *classroom
20:07 < Rocket2DMn> +1 bodhi_zazen
20:07 < PrivateVoid> and some threads asking for interested instructors
20:08 < bodhi_zazen> PrivateVoid, link ?
20:08 < PrivateVoid> I think the easiest way to build up, as bodhi_zazen suggested in the BT meeting, is to start with the Q&A sessions
20:08 < pleia2> sounds good
20:09 < PrivateVoid> bodhi_zazen, they were not stickied... give me a second
20:09 < bodhi_zazen> np PrivateVoid, don't worry about it
20:09 < PrivateVoid> call for topics -- http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=984986
20:09 < pleia2> PrivateVoid: so I'm thinking you get these up and running, and when you want to host one drop a note to ubuntu-classroom list to get put on the wiki schedule (or just add it yourself)
20:09 < PrivateVoid> call for instructors - http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=997940
20:09 < DarkKnight> hey i m a newbie...and wanted to be on the MOTU team....i read the wiki page...but there are certain things that i didnt understand
20:09 < PrivateVoid> pleia2, noted
20:10 < DarkKnight> I did file a bug
20:10 < bodhi_zazen> DarkKnight, if you wish, come to #ubuntuforums-beginners
20:10 < bodhi_zazen> we have members who will guide you if needed
20:10 < DarkKnight> bodhi_zazen; newbie in the sense i m newbie to the development process
20:11 < bodhi_zazen> As I said, one of our goals is to make the greater Ubuntu community more "accessible"
20:11 < bodhi_zazen> I'm sure you could teach us all a few tricks DarkKnight :)
20:11 < DarkKnight> bodhi_zazen; wat tricks
20:12 < pleia2> so once we have a class scheduled, we'll help promote if you need us
20:12 < bodhi_zazen> that would be awesome pleia2
20:12 < bodhi_zazen> I have suggested we start small and build ;)
20:12  * pleia2 nods
20:13 < PrivateVoid> yes bodhi_zazen the Q&A is an excellent starting point
20:13 < bodhi_zazen> Thank you for your time, we will be in touch
20:13 < DarkKnight> i didnt get a word of wat u ppl had been saying
20:13 < pleia2> DarkKnight: we're having a meeting :)
20:13 < pleia2> PrivateVoid: are there any other ways you can think we can help you guys out?
20:14 < DarkKnight> pleia2; okkk.....
20:14 < PrivateVoid> pleia2, we need instructors... and people willing to write some courses
20:14 < DarkKnight> pleia2; ya i need help
20:14 < PrivateVoid> FAQs and HowTos are ok, but not really 'courses'
20:14  * pleia2 nods
20:14 < PrivateVoid> so the format has to be slightly different
20:15 < PrivateVoid> FAQs and How Tos can be preparation material for the Q&A sessions, but the courses would be more 'lesson' based
20:15 < pleia2> so the way I see things, is Classroom itself really woud like to get our own courses going again, but if we could delegate that to your team it might be a worthwhile thing
20:15 < PrivateVoid> that would be great... but my 'team' is rather small right now...
20:15 < PrivateVoid> so it might be best to work in harmony with one another
20:15 < pleia2> unfortunately we've already been burnt by working with another team for such things, there was a New Users team a long time ago that died :)
20:16  * PrivateVoid nods
20:16 < PrivateVoid> I understand
20:16 < DarkKnight> pleia2; so wat r being thought in the classroom...and how r ppl across the world going 2 learn
20:16 < PrivateVoid> bodhi_zazen, will whipe me if I fade away and die
20:16 < PrivateVoid> so I have no ability to just leave you all hanging
20:17 < pleia2> DarkKnight: can you hold off new questions until we finish up this discussion?
20:17 < PrivateVoid> DarkKnight, we will be making classes... about Bash Scripting, programming Python, etc... and then we will offer the courses in the IRC channel and via wiki/forum posts
20:17 < bodhi_zazen> pleia2, although it is early, I think the BT is getting established and if anything I see growth
20:17 < pleia2> DarkKnight: the classroom site is here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom
20:17 < pleia2> bodhi_zazen: *nod*
20:18 < bodhi_zazen> If you have concerns or feedback we would be all ears
20:18 < DarkKnight> pleia2; thanq.....ohh plzz don't mind for having interrupted
20:18 < DarkKnight> ur discussion
20:19 < bodhi_zazen> I think we would add to rather then take over if you will
20:19 < pleia2> ok, so maybe you guys start off with the q&a sessions, we promote, and take it from there?
20:19  * pleia2 nods
20:19 < bodhi_zazen> We would start small for sure, and build
20:19  * PrivateVoid nods
20:19 < pleia2> honestly Classroom has kinda fizzled out these past couple years, it's been tough to get regoing and perhaps what we ultimately *need* is another team helping out
20:20 < PrivateVoid> that sounds good pleia2 do you have any instructors... or a good idea on how to recruit them?
20:20 < PrivateVoid> that, I think, will be the largest challenge
20:20 < pleia2> thus far we've primarily used planet, posts to UWN, and our own connections within the community (ie - nag people who know stuff to do classes)
20:20 < PrivateVoid> the forums, the wiki and launchpad all give people, those who seek it, 'exposure' and 'recognition'
20:21 < PrivateVoid> perhaps if there was a way to give people that 'recognition' for being an instructor we would get some more people interested
20:21  * pleia2 notes that nagging has been primary tool
20:21 < bodhi_zazen> PrivateVoid, do we not have a few interested instructors in the BT ?
20:22 < bodhi_zazen> It would be a start
20:22 < PrivateVoid> bodhi_zazen, being honest we have people that have expressed an interest... but only one that I am aware of that ran a class
20:22 < PrivateVoid> the Q&A sessions would make it easier, I think, to get people to commit to the time
20:22 < bodhi_zazen> Well, to be honest, I think they will respond to "leadership" and "structure"
20:23 < bodhi_zazen> It is nebulous, being an instructor
20:23 < spiderbatdad> most do
20:23 < bodhi_zazen> but if you tell them what is needed, give them structure, they will follow
20:23 < bodhi_zazen> you are a natural leader
20:23 < PrivateVoid> bodhi_zazen, I agree... that is what I am trying to build...
20:23 < spiderbatdad> +1
20:24 < pleia2> bodhi_zazen: +1
20:24 < PrivateVoid> I just enable people to shine
20:24 < PrivateVoid> not really any leadership in that...
20:24 < bodhi_zazen> yes there is, and that is my line :)
20:24 < pleia2> so for classroom stuff, we developed this: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom/Guidelines
20:24  * PrivateVoid does not take compliments well... they embarrass him... as much as he appreciates them
20:25  * PrivateVoid reads wiki
20:25 < bodhi_zazen> bookmarked pleia2
20:25 < PrivateVoid> good structure pleia2
20:25 < pleia2> it's a bit rough around the edges
20:26 < pleia2> but basic ideas are there
20:26 < PrivateVoid> it is good... we can buff the edges
20:26 < pleia2> :)
20:26 < PrivateVoid> I think writing the wiki ahead of time and adding to it after the class would be a good idea
20:27 < PrivateVoid> perhaps a wiki for the main 'subject' and logs of previous classes
20:27 < pleia2> PrivateVoid: like for a series on a similar subject?
20:27 < PrivateVoid> yes
20:27  * pleia2 nods
20:28 < PrivateVoid> I would think certain classes will see many students pass through the 'doors'
20:29 < bodhi_zazen> I am going to need to get to my family soon
20:29 < bodhi_zazen> pleia2, you can always find us at #ubuntuforums-beginners :)
20:30  * pleia2 recalls :)
20:30 < bodhi_zazen> It is a relaxed channel, take care not to click on the links :)
20:30 < pleia2> I stopped lurking because people were always welcoming me like I was new
20:30 < pleia2> hehe
20:30 < PrivateVoid> I hang here... and on many other channels
20:30 < pleia2> I knew where to find you guys if I needed ;)
20:30 < bodhi_zazen> We like fresh victims
20:31 < bodhi_zazen> doh, I mean members
20:31  * PrivateVoid evil grin
20:31 < Rocket2DMn> mmmmm blooooood
20:31 < pleia2> haha
20:31 < pleia2> alas, I dislike forums :)
20:32 < pleia2> ok, so since bodhi_zazen has to scoot soon - I'll work up some gathering instructors ideas and post them to the wiki, you guys start working on a couple pepole to start running classes and then nudge me or the classroom list when you're ready to get help for promotion and stuff?
20:33 < bodhi_zazen> Well, that is one way we can work together, we are strong on forums, weaker elsewhere
20:33 < PrivateVoid> sounds good!!
20:33 < bodhi_zazen> +1 pleia2
20:34 < pleia2> PrivateVoid: I'd be interested in other thoughst of yours for expanding classes beyond forums/wiki (you had mentioned moodle at some point), but I think that's for a later time
20:34 < pleia2> don't want to tackle too much at once
20:34 < PrivateVoid> yes.... if we get things rolling...
20:34 < PrivateVoid> a app like moodle could really help
20:35 < PrivateVoid> I wrote an entire course for School Administrators regarding security in Moodle...
20:35 < PrivateVoid> so I have a bit of experience with it... though not an expert
20:36  * pleia2 knows very little about moodle
20:37  * PrivateVoid nods and waves
20:37 < dinda> i know about Moodle
20:37 < PrivateVoid> thanks for the time on your docket classroom team
20:37 < PrivateVoid> I appreciate the opportunity
20:37 < PrivateVoid> and hope that I can assist in moving the education of Ubuntu users forward
20:39 < pleia2> your enthusiasm is much needed :)
20:40 < PrivateVoid> I hope it rubs off...
20:41 < PrivateVoid> to be honest... I gave up computer gaming... and Ubuntu is what I am focused on instead
20:42 < pleia2> I did the same a while back
20:42 < PrivateVoid> Cool...
20:42 < PrivateVoid> I was very, very in to Guild Wars...
20:42 < PrivateVoid> and World of Warcrack before that
20:43 < dinda> can I ask a general question about this channel?
20:43 < pleia2> dinda: sure
20:43 < dinda> why do so many folks hang out here?  are they waiting for something to happen?  or just like to lurk?
20:44 < pleia2> Ubuntu Open Week is held here
20:44 < pleia2> I think a lot of people join during that, and lurk :)
20:44 < dinda> that's one every 6 months
20:44 < pleia2> developers week is also hosted here, which is 6-12 months
20:44 < pleia2> I think most folks just lurk and look in when something is going on if it's interesting
20:44 < dinda> are there any other regularly scheduled events here?
20:45 < pleia2> motu school had regular sessions for a while
20:45 < dinda> yeah James_w was very helpful in trying to get those going
20:45  * pleia2 nods
20:45 < pleia2> they were great :)
20:45 < pleia2> alas, we don't have much else going on
20:45  * Rocket2DMn returns to his tiny corners of the IRC net
20:45 < pleia2> so I scour the ubuntu community for other teams doing classes, and drag them here
20:45  * pleia2 points at PrivateVoid 
20:46 < pleia2> like beginners team! :)
20:46 < dinda> :)
20:46 < PrivateVoid> I will try to build it... I will...
20:46 < dinda> we've had some success with our weekly session in the training team
20:47 < dinda> but need to add some evening US time sessions
20:47 < PrivateVoid> dinda, another team for teaching... cool... we really need to pool our resources
20:47 < PrivateVoid> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/FocusGroups/Education
20:47 < PrivateVoid> I am working on getting some stuff going with pleia2
20:48 < dinda> getting good session leaders is key
20:48 < PrivateVoid> in using the wiki/forums and IRC to hold classes and Q&A sessions
20:48 < PrivateVoid> yes, it is...
20:48 < dinda> one guy found it really hard to lead an irc session with all the crosstalk in the channel
20:49 < PrivateVoid> +m
20:49 < PrivateVoid> set the channel to +m
20:49 < pleia2> yeah, we tend to leave +m up to the instructor
20:49 < PrivateVoid> that should cut that down
20:49 < dinda> some topics lend themselves to irc better than others I suppose
20:49 < pleia2> the ubuntu women open week presentation I did ended up having to be moderated
20:50 < PrivateVoid> I agree dinda I see IRC being used in some courses as a 'help' session that augments class lessons that are forum/wiki based
20:50 < PrivateVoid> that have material that is to be learned with assignments
20:51 < dinda> good luck, let me know if i can help
20:52 < PrivateVoid> dinda, you can help...
20:52 < PrivateVoid> how do I contact you?
20:52 < dinda> dinda@ubuntu.com  :)
20:52 < dinda> like pleia2 I'm not much a forums person either
20:52 < PrivateVoid> k
20:53 < PrivateVoid> not an issue... I am less a forum person than most of the BT guys
20:53 < PrivateVoid> I mostly hang on IRC
20:53 < PrivateVoid> and use LP to answer questions
21:03 < dinda> ok, gotta go fight with BZR some more
21:03 < dinda> night all!