2010-03-09

For minutes of previous meetings, please see DesktopTeam/Meeting.

Meeting Minutes

Present

Main Meeting

  • Rick Spencer (rickspencer3) - chair
  • Alberto Milone (tseliot)
  • Arne Goetje (ArneGoetje)

  • Bryce Harrington (bryce)
  • Chris Cheney (ccheney)
  • Chris Coulson (chrisccoulson)
  • Didier Roche (didrocks)
  • Jonathan Riddell (Riddell)
  • Ken VanDine (kenvandine)

  • Martin Pitt (pitti)
  • Sebastien Bacher (seb128)
  • Till Kamppeter (tkamppeter)

Eastern Edition

  • Luke Yelavich (TheMuso)

  • Robert Ancell (robert_ancell)
  • Chris Halse Rogers (RAOF)

Apologies

Agenda

  • Outstanding actions from last meeting
  • Partner Update
  • Kubuntu Update
  • Release Bugs/Release Status
  • Guadec call for papers ends in 11 days
  • Review activity reports
  • Any other business

Discussion

Actions from this meeting

  • ACTION: rickspencer3 to ask bdmurray about included targetedness of bugs in bug query
  • ACTION: rickspencer3 to follow up with sabdfl to confirm that boot time cursor requirement is met
  • ACTION: seb128 to generate a list of 100 "right" bugs to fix in Lucid
  • ACTION: rickspencer3 and seb128 to discuss gdm greeter options, especially wrt sound

Outstanding actions from last meeting

  • ACTION: pitti to drive "hiding X cursor" project
    • RESULT: Cursor is hidden up to GDM logon, appears for GDM Logon (so user can select, etc...) then is visible while desktop loads

Partner Update

OLS

  • ubuntuone-client
    • control panel changes landed
    • UDF (User Defined Folders) interface in nautilus, you can now add arbitrary folders to U1 file sync with nautilus
  • Music store
    • libubuntuone
      • updates to include a number of music store fixes
      • added mono bindings to enable the banshee store plugin to be finished
    • rhythmbox-ubuntuone-music-store
      • bug fixes to go along with the libubuntuone update

DX

  • indicator-me
    • Fixes for the about-me interface is coming tomorroow
  • the rest, bug fixes as usual

Kubuntu Update

  • Firefox KDE integration is in, but blocked on MIR bug 531848
  • ARM images are now building
  • may switch to network manager plasmoid on advice of upstream, asking for widespread testing now
  • still waiting on new logo from canonical designers

Release Status

http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/canonical-desktop-team-lucid-alpha-3.html

  • Pitti describes bug attribution and bug workflow for assigning a bug as "needs to be fixed"
  • seb128 brings up the lack of a list of target bugs, volunteers to create such a list
  • discussed fitness of pitivi to ship, bug fix release expected today targeting major Ubuntu bugs, will ship with beta 1
  • A low priority blueprint is officially dropped: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-lucid-services-settings-window

  • Some discussion regarding GDM greeter settings, especially wrt to sounds. seb128 and rickspencer3 to take the discussion post-meeting

Guadec Call for Papers

Other Business

Activity reports

Alberto Milone (tseliot)

* Updated nvidia and nvidia-settings to 195.36.08 * Warned users about a potential issue with Nvidia drivers (no evidence of the problem on Linux so far) * Updated and uploaded the new bootsplash * Made sure that /etc/modprobe.d/lrm-video is removed by nvidia-common (LP: #467490) * Fixed the debconf interface of nvidia-common (thanks Colin Watson for the help) * Further fixes for the packaging scripts of fglrx * Working on 16 colours support for Plymouth

Arne Goetje (ArneGoetje)

  • language-selector
    • code review with Martin Pitt
    • committed fixes for bugs #531422, #146681 and #387868
  • prepared and tested ubuntu-desktop-fonts package
  • discussed Japanese fontconfig settings with Japanese font package maintainers
  • lots of bug triaging

Bryce Harrington (bryce)

  • Bug Triaging
    • Triage all fglrx bugs tagged 'lucid'
    • Triage all wacom bugs tagged 'lucid'
    • Triage all evdev bugs tagged 'lucid'
    • Triage all -ati bugs tagged 'lucid'
    • Triage New -intel bugs tagged 'lucid'
    • Triage Incomplete -intel bugs tagged 'lucid'
    • Triage Confirmed -intel bugs tagged 'lucid'
    • Symptom tag all -intel bugs tagged 'lucid'
    • Symptom tag all -ati bugs tagged 'lucid'
    • Symptom tag all mesa bugs tagged 'lucid'
    • Symptom tag all evdev bugs tagged 'lucid'
    • Symptom tag all wacom bugs tagged 'lucid'
    • Work on bugs from high-karma-bugs report for several hours
    • Write email to ubuntu-x@ explaining about lucid tagging scheme
  • Upstreaming
    • Upstream all triaged wacom bugs tagged 'lucid'
    • Upstream all triaged -intel bugs tagged 'lucid'
    • Upstream lp #531000
  • Sponsoring
    • Take care of 8 ubuntu-x-swat bugs with patches
    • sponsor SRU bug #402260
    • Make script to locate sponsorable patches/debdiffs in X packages
  • .33 drm backport
    • Install apw's drm from his red ppa onto dorset and run through tests
    • Send out a request-for-testing of new drm by -intel users. Follow up
    • Review .33 drm test results with apw. Reach decision to go forward
      • with the backport.
  • Multitouch
    • Study upstream discussions to understand current situation
    • Make a blueprint for multitouch
    • Gather and review the experimental patches/code proposed upstream
  • xdiagnose
    • Start maintaining xdiagnose packaging in bzr
    • Set up xdiagnose debian packaging to install failsafeX files
  • Apport hooks for X
    • Improve apport hook for X freezes
    • Add info for freeze dump apport hook
  • Arsenal
    • Fix unicode bugs in arsenal
    • Plan work to improve triaging scripts
    • Plan better use of ls-gitcommit-bugs.py
    • Check that process-expiration is running daily
    • Fix send_upstream.cgi
    • Start collecting metrics data for bugs tagged 'lucid'
  • Hardware upgrades
    • Determine what needs to be done with the motherboard/cpu replacement stuff for Intel HW
    • Test USB/PS2 dongles to support mouse *and* keyboard. Succeed
    • Test fresh install of Alpha-3 on a Fujitsu Lifebook. Succeed unexpectedly
    • Upgrade i945 laptop to alpha-3 from karmic. Succeed
    • Try upgrading webserver from hardy to lucid. Fail. Reinstall from scratch.

Chris Cheney (ccheney)

  • Working on epiphany-browser backport.
    • Tried several different ways but they all failed so contacted asac on how to proceed and now implementing the new idea (dervived backported class).

Chris Halse Rogers (RAOF)

  • Checked xorg apport scripts after noticing a strange lack of attachments to a nouveau bug. Fixed the crashes in apport scripts, packaging sponsored by bryce.
  • Reviewed apport hooks; they capture all the information upstream would like.
  • Reinstated clean upstream HEAD code in xorg-edgers/nouveau PPA to refer interested bug-reporters to in preparation for call for testing.
  • Talked with bryce & apw about .33 drm backport kernel. Delayed call for nouveau testing until after -16 ABI reaches the archive.

    • linux-meta now points at the -16 ABI, so send out a call for testing today.
  • Tracked down the cause of many of the currently reported nouveau bugs to interference from vga16fb. Verified that the .33 drm backport kernel fixes this for free. Nouveau is now lacking good bugs. Hopefully a call for testing can round some up.
  • Poked at libgjs build failure on armel; set up an emulated chroot environment and can reproduce, but haven't found the cause.
  • Tracked down and fixed crashers in f-spot patch by kenvanidine, then added functionality. F-Spot's view mode now has editing with undo, browsing, and explicit saving. Package sponsored by seb128, who picked up a bug in save-as. Upstream has expressed interest in the patch, so I'll spend the odd hour cleaning it up to push it into GNOME git.

Didier Roche (didrocks)

* WI related:

  • fix gnome-update-cache-wallpaper not installed in gnome-settings-daemon

* Not WI related:

  • UNE
    • Play with seeds and ubuntu-netbook metapackage to get the CD size on track again
    • ubuntu-netbook-default-settings: remove Dust theme by default and take lucid one
    • merge and review a patch on liblauncher (show display name)
    • prepare a package for clutk fixing the "more than 8 rows icons spawning"
      • (available in ubuntu-desktop ppa, call for testing done on the related bug reports)
    • bugs triaging
  • misc
    • Fix gthumb FTBFS
    • 4 ws on metacity/compiz/mutter by default
    • adjut the changed color in gnome-terminal to get the same than the bg
    • Launchpad hacking (mostly for Quickly):
      • expose gpg key
      • expose ssh key
    • Lot of merge review on Quickly branches and some hacking
    • Prepare and handle session on UODW
  • GNOME updates: gnome-settings-daemon, gnome-control-center, gnome-menus,
    • gnome-menus, cheese, gdl, anjuta, gdm, gnome-session

Jonathan Riddell (Riddell)

Ken VanDine (kenvandine)

  • empathy update
    • finished/uploaded adium-theme-ubuntu and made it the default
    • papercut fix, make the default chat window size not tiny
  • gwibber
    • lots of bug fixes, mostly focused on potential problems at startup and first run (like on livecd)
    • merged translations
    • made autostart with a 30s delay if accounts are configured
    • ensure only one instance of the service runs
  • desktopcouch
    • reverted part of the update to 0.6.2 as a distro patch, this was causing desktopcouch to crash on startup
  • libubuntuone
    • update and add mono packaging
  • rhythmbox-ubuntuone-music-store
    • update and beta testing, i love buying music in rhythmbox Smile :)

Luke Yelavich (TheMuso)

Martin Pitt (pitti)

Assigned blueprints: All implemented

Done:

  • Bug fixing: apport, cups, vala, gdm, gnome-disk-utility, gnome-menus, langpack-locales, libatasmart, metacity, pm-utils, udisks, upower, xorg, xserver-xorg-input-vmmouse
  • Version updates: langpack-locales, tzdata (for all releases)
  • Checked lucid for duplicate libraries/programs, created blueprint and wiki page; worked on transitions to drop a couple of them
  • Cleaned up NBS quite a bit
  • Migrated packages away from obsolete automake1.7
  • Migrated packages to libreadline6
  • Transition to drop gtkhtml2 from main
  • Reviewed/applied appindicator patch to policykit-1-gnome
  • Reviewed/applied appindicator patch to brasero
  • gnome-mount/g-v-m/libipoddevice/policykit-gnome cleanup (LP #530829)
  • Reviewed language-selector branch, discussed with Arne, sponsored
  • Lots of bug triage
  • Some conf calls/job interviews
  • Spec reviews

Sponsoring:

  • acpi-support, apport, brasero, cups, language-selector, policykit-gnome

Robert Ancell (robert_ancell)

Sebastien Bacher (seb128)

Done:

  • desktop updates: gvfs nautilus gnome-desktop gnome-settings-daemon tomboy libgweather libgnomekbd
  • dx weekly updates: indicator-sound notify-osd
  • backported indicator-session change to fix decoration issues
  • lot of gtk testing with the new theme, discussions with Cody and Ken
  • reviewed indicator changes
  • updated gnome-games to use correct score files following the renames in lucid
  • several gtk csd updates to fix issues then decided to report that to next cycle
  • updated nautilus indicator patch to fix the menu not being rendered
  • updated eog package with desrt's change to add an edit ACTION:toolbar button

  • worked with kwwii to land the new artwork to lucid, sponsored and fixed some issues on: ubuntu-wallpaper light-themes ubuntu-artwork gdm ubuntu-mono
  • updated gnome-panel migration code to add the indicator applet back on upgrade to lucid
  • updated f-spot to correctly use translations for its desktop entries
  • backported gnome-keyring fix for gnome-keyring-daemon eating cpu and blocking gnome-screensaver unlocking dialog

Sponsoring

  • rhythmbox gnome-settings-daemon gnome-session gnome-settings-daemon rhythmbox gnome-panel gnome-bluetooth gnome-control-center libwnck libubuntuone gtksourceview2 adium-theme-ubuntu libdbusmenu libindicate indicator-application indicator-messages ibus gwibber pidgin-libnotify humanity-icon-theme glib

Till Kamppeter (tkamppeter)

  • Ghostscript: Fixed several bugs in the CUPS Raster output device and in pdftoraster upstream and applied the fixes to the Ubuntu package of Ghostscript.
  • Poppler: Prepared SRU for Karmic to fix shifted printouts on Brother PostScript (BR-Script) printers (LP: #293832)

  • CUPS: Investigations on possibilities to fix regression bug LP: #465916 (CUPS not broadcasting via DNS-SD/mDNS/ZeroConf): Avahi compatibility library does not provide all features which CUPS needs. Only possible solution would be to port appropriate parts of CUPS 1.3 to CUPS 1.4.
  • Answered and triaged printing-related bug reports.

Chris Coulson (chrisccoulson)

  • General:
    • Updates - gtksourceview2, gedit
    • Fixed a race condition in gnome-power-manager which triggered display blanking whilst not idle
    • Backported a wpasupplicant change from upstream to fix some syslog flooding
    • Implemented the gnome-terminal theme change. I had to patch gnome-terminal to merge the new profile in to the list of profiles for existing users - there still seems to be some issues with this though
    • Uploaded a gnome-system-tools change to fix audio issues when switching users
    • Sponsoring - deskbar-applet
    • Bug triage
    • Tracking down an openjdk-6 build failure as part of the xulrunner 1.9.2 migration work. The issue is triggered by a llvm update, and not caused by xulrunner 1.9.2
    • Started investigating LP #531583. I understand the conditions that trigger the bug now, and asac has given me some pointers for this
    • Worked on the gnome-screensaver apport hook to add the list of idle inhibitors to bug reports (needs some fine-tuning though). This should help track issues where users report their screensaver doesn't activate. I'll probably add the same to the gnome-power-manager hook too (listing idle and suspend inhibits)
  • Blueprints:
    • desktop-lucid-new-firefox-support-model - compiled a list of source packages providing Mozilla extensions in the archive. In the process of reviewing which ones we want to keep

IRC LOG

[16:32] <rickspencer3> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2010-03-09<<BR>> [16:32] <rickspencer3> shall we begin?
[16:33] <kenvandine> ready
[16:33] <rickspencer3> first is outstanding issues from last meeting
[16:33] <rickspencer3> there was 1
[16:33] <rickspencer3> ACTION: pitti to drive "hiding X cursor" project
[16:33] <rickspencer3> note that for me, the cursor does not spin
[16:33] <seb128> I can't try
[16:34] <pitti> I uploaded a first fix for that last Friday
[16:34] <seb128> plymouth send me to vt1 at every boot
[16:34] <pitti> I think it's not perfect yet
[16:34] <rickspencer3> does anyone see the cursor spin or is it just the normal cursor for everyone?
[16:34] <pitti> but it avoids the spinning cursor for me during plymouth
[16:34] <ccheney> when do you see this cursor?
[16:34] <didrocks> it's working for me. But still, the cursor appear early on plymouth
[16:34] <ccheney> afaicr i don't see it
[16:34] <rickspencer3> after GDM loads
[16:34] <pitti> rickspencer3: hm, I don't see it at all during boot now; but I do see it between entering password and session start
[16:34] <rickspencer3> yeah
[16:34] <pitti> but that's not from gdm (where my patch already hides it), but from somewhere in GNOME that I didn't track down yet
[16:34] <rickspencer3> pitti, so you feel that you have accomplished this, but needs a bit more polish?
[16:35] <pitti> rickspencer3: I'd say "in progress" then
[16:35] <ccheney> i probably see the same as pitti as i don't recall seeing it look wrong in any case
[16:35] <kenvandine> i don't think it spins for me
[16:35] <chrisccoulson> ooh, i nearly missed the meeting there
[16:35] * ccheney can test to see if it spins or not after the meeting
[16:35] <rickspencer3> I'm not sure that we need to fix the non-spinning cursor after logging in
[16:35] <ccheney> ok
[16:35] <pitti> rickspencer3: I wasn't sure either
[16:35] <pitti> rickspencer3: but I'd rather have it spinning than being "normal"
[16:35] <rickspencer3> pitti, maybe after the meeting you can explain what the current status is, and I can check into whether it is "done" or not
[16:35] <pitti> i. e. hide it or spin
[16:35] <rickspencer3> I suspect it is
[16:36] <pitti> rickspencer3: agreed
[16:36] <rickspencer3> pitti, but it's for such a short period of time, I don't think it would help to spin it
[16:36] <rickspencer3> okay
[16:36] <rickspencer3> ACTION: rickspencer3 to follow up with pitti regarding cursor at boot changes, determine if requirement has been met
[16:36] <rickspencer3> next is partner update
[16:36] <rickspencer3> kenvandine, ?
[16:36] <kenvandine> ok
[16:37] <kenvandine> for ubuntuone, user defined folders are now configurable in nautilus
[16:38] <kenvandine> music store is still private beta, but i think will go public beta in a couple days
[16:38] <kenvandine> after the current testers test the uploads we did this morning
[16:38] <kenvandine> which include libu1 (with mono bindings) and the rb plugin
[16:39] <kenvandine> DX is getting into a more quiet bug fix mode which is nice :)
[16:39] <kenvandine> indicator-me should get the about me stuff fixed finally
[16:39] <kenvandine> this week
[16:39] <kenvandine> i think that is it for the partner update
[16:39] <pitti> kenvandine: including hiding the twitter entry line?
[16:39] <tkamppeter> hi
[16:39] <kenvandine> pitti, oh... let me check on that
[16:39] <kenvandine> dbarth wasn't very specific :)
[16:40] <rickspencer3> pitti, you want that to be hidden if no microblogging accounts are set?
[16:40] <kenvandine> i know the about-me stuff is on the list
[16:40] <pitti> rickspencer3: yes; it's currently nonfunctional if you haven't
[16:40] <kenvandine> there is a gconf key for that now
[16:40] <rickspencer3> that seems wrong, indeed
[16:40] <kenvandine> yup
[16:40] <rickspencer3> kenvandine, I assume there is a bug to track that?
[16:40] <kenvandine> i'll make sure it gets done
[16:40] <kenvandine> i doubt it
[16:40] <kenvandine> i'll get one
[16:41] <rickspencer3> I think a bug report appropriately prioritized would be a good way to track that change
[16:41] <pitti> merci beaucoup
[16:41] <kenvandine> there is a bug
[16:41] <kenvandine> ok
[16:41] <rickspencer3> great
[16:41] <rickspencer3> thanks kenvandine
[16:42] <rickspencer3> kenvandine, all done with partner update?
[16:42] <kenvandine> yup!
[16:42] <rickspencer3> Riddell, Kubuntu update?
[16:42] <rickspencer3> man, I never get coordinated with that guy
[16:42] <Riddell> hi
[16:42] * rickspencer3 guilt
[16:43] <Riddell> * KDE 4.4.1 is in
[16:43] <Riddell> * Firefox KDE integration is in, yay, now only blocked on MIR bug 531848
[16:43] <ubottu> Launchpad bug 531848 in kmozillahelper "kmozillahelper MIR" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/531848<<BR>> [16:43] <Riddell> * ARM images are now building, yay
[16:43] <Riddell> * may switch to network manager plasmoid on advice of upstream, asking for widespread testing now * still waiting on new logo from canonical designers
[16:43] <Riddell> done
[16:43] <rickspencer3> oh good, glad Riddell is more organized that I am :)
[16:43] <rickspencer3> thanks Riddell
[16:43] <rickspencer3> how did the KDE update last week go?
[16:43] <Riddell> the 4.4.1 update? no problems that I'm aware of
[16:43] <rickspencer3> great
[16:44] <rickspencer3> ok
[16:44] <rickspencer3> ccheney, mozilla status?
[16:44] <asac> epiphany port still missing. rest of the stack is there .... stuck on the new gtk_entry_icon api
[16:45] <asac> we discussed a way forward yesterday
[16:45] <ccheney> tried out several methods to get the gtkentry bits backported they failed so talked with asac and got a new idea of what to do, implementing it today
[16:45] <ccheney> see asac :)
[16:46] <rickspencer3> ccheney, so one more day?[16:32] <rickspencer3> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2010-03-09<<BR>> [16:32] <rickspencer3> shall we begin?
[16:33] <kenvandine> ready
[16:33] <rickspencer3> first is outstanding issues from last meeting
[16:33] <rickspencer3> there was 1
[16:33] <rickspencer3> ACTION: pitti to drive "hiding X cursor" project
[16:33] <rickspencer3> note that for me, the cursor does not spin
[16:33] <seb128> I can't try
[16:34] <pitti> I uploaded a first fix for that last Friday
[16:34] <seb128> plymouth send me to vt1 at every boot
[16:34] <pitti> I think it's not perfect yet
[16:34] <rickspencer3> does anyone see the cursor spin or is it just the normal cursor for everyone?
[16:34] <pitti> but it avoids the spinning cursor for me during plymouth
[16:34] <ccheney> when do you see this cursor?
[16:34] <didrocks> it's working for me. But still, the cursor appear early on plymouth
[16:34] <ccheney> afaicr i don't see it
[16:34] <rickspencer3> after GDM loads
[16:34] <pitti> rickspencer3: hm, I don't see it at all during boot now; but I do see it between entering password and session start
[16:34] <rickspencer3> yeah
[16:34] <pitti> but that's not from gdm (where my patch already hides it), but from somewhere in GNOME that I didn't track down yet
[16:34] <rickspencer3> pitti, so you feel that you have accomplished this, but needs a bit more polish?
[16:35] <pitti> rickspencer3: I'd say "in progress" then
[16:35] <ccheney> i probably see the same as pitti as i don't recall seeing it look wrong in any case
[16:35] <kenvandine> i don't think it spins for me
[16:35] <chrisccoulson> ooh, i nearly missed the meeting there
[16:35] * ccheney can test to see if it spins or not after the meeting
[16:35] <rickspencer3> I'm not sure that we need to fix the non-spinning cursor after logging in
[16:35] <ccheney> ok
[16:35] <pitti> rickspencer3: I wasn't sure either
[16:35] <pitti> rickspencer3: but I'd rather have it spinning than being "normal"
[16:35] <rickspencer3> pitti, maybe after the meeting you can explain what the current status is, and I can check into whether it is "done" or not
[16:35] <pitti> i. e. hide it or spin
[16:35] <rickspencer3> I suspect it is
[16:36] <pitti> rickspencer3: agreed
[16:36] <rickspencer3> pitti, but it's for such a short period of time, I don't think it would help to spin it
[16:36] <rickspencer3> okay
[16:36] <rickspencer3> ACTION: rickspencer3 to follow up with pitti regarding cursor at boot changes, determine if requirement has been met
[16:36] <rickspencer3> next is partner update
[16:36] <rickspencer3> kenvandine, ?
[16:36] <kenvandine> ok
[16:37] <kenvandine> for ubuntuone, user defined folders are now configurable in nautilus
[16:38] <kenvandine> music store is still private beta, but i think will go public beta in a couple days
[16:38] <kenvandine> after the current testers test the uploads we did this morning
[16:38] <kenvandine> which include libu1 (with mono bindings) and the rb plugin
[16:39] <kenvandine> DX is getting into a more quiet bug fix mode which is nice :)
[16:39] <kenvandine> indicator-me should get the about me stuff fixed finally
[16:39] <kenvandine> this week
[16:39] <kenvandine> i think that is it for the partner update
[16:39] <pitti> kenvandine: including hiding the twitter entry line?
[16:39] <tkamppeter> hi
[16:39] <kenvandine> pitti, oh... let me check on that
[16:39] <kenvandine> dbarth wasn't very specific :)
[16:40] <rickspencer3> pitti, you want that to be hidden if no microblogging accounts are set?
[16:40] <kenvandine> i know the about-me stuff is on the list
[16:40] <pitti> rickspencer3: yes; it's currently nonfunctional if you haven't
[16:40] <kenvandine> there is a gconf key for that now
[16:40] <rickspencer3> that seems wrong, indeed
[16:40] <kenvandine> yup
[16:40] <rickspencer3> kenvandine, I assume there is a bug to track that?
[16:40] <kenvandine> i'll make sure it gets done
[16:40] <kenvandine> i doubt it
[16:40] <kenvandine> i'll get one
[16:41] <rickspencer3> I think a bug report appropriately prioritized would be a good way to track that change
[16:41] <pitti> merci beaucoup
[16:41] <kenvandine> there is a bug
[16:41] <kenvandine> ok
[16:41] <rickspencer3> great
[16:41] <rickspencer3> thanks kenvandine
[16:42] <rickspencer3> kenvandine, all done with partner update?
[16:42] <kenvandine> yup!
[16:42] <rickspencer3> Riddell, Kubuntu update?
[16:42] <rickspencer3> man, I never get coordinated with that guy
[16:42] <Riddell> hi
[16:42] * rickspencer3 guilt
[16:43] <Riddell> * KDE 4.4.1 is in
[16:43] <Riddell> * Firefox KDE integration is in, yay, now only blocked on MIR bug 531848
[16:43] <ubottu> Launchpad bug 531848 in kmozillahelper "kmozillahelper MIR" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/531848<<BR>> [16:43] <Riddell> * ARM images are now building, yay
[16:43] <Riddell> * may switch to network manager plasmoid on advice of upstream, asking for widespread testing now * still waiting on new logo from canonical designers
[16:43] <Riddell> done
[16:43] <rickspencer3> oh good, glad Riddell is more organized that I am :)
[16:43] <rickspencer3> thanks Riddell
[16:43] <rickspencer3> how did the KDE update last week go?
[16:43] <Riddell> the 4.4.1 update? no problems that I'm aware of
[16:43] <rickspencer3> great
[16:44] <rickspencer3> ok
[16:44] <rickspencer3> ccheney, mozilla status?
[16:44] <asac> epiphany port still missing. rest of the stack is there .... stuck on the new gtk_entry_icon api
[16:45] <asac> we discussed a way forward yesterday
[16:45] <ccheney> tried out several methods to get the gtkentry bits backported they failed so talked with asac and got a new idea of what to do, implementing it today
[16:45] <ccheney> see asac :)
[16:46] <rickspencer3> ccheney, so one more day?
[16:46] <Riddell> ah asac, how about that MIR?
[16:46] <ccheney> rickspencer3: hopefully yea if this does work it shouldn't take more than another day
[16:47] <ccheney> rickspencer3: and it sounds like it is a workable solution
[16:47] <rickspencer3> ok
[16:47] <rickspencer3> time is now getting a bit tight on this
[16:47] <rickspencer3> but I guess we can only continue to sit tight
[16:48] <rickspencer3> ok
[16:48] <asac> Riddell: have the source now ...
[16:48] <rickspencer3> next is release status ... I'll turn the mic over to pitti in a moment
[16:48] <rickspencer3> first:
[16:48] <rickspencer3> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2010-03-09/BugList<<BR>> [16:48] <rickspencer3> this is High and Critical assigned bugs
[16:48] <asac> Riddell: lets talk offline after this meeting Wink ;) (sorry i am out again)
[16:49] <rickspencer3> I noticed that our cron job query does not have all the data needed to see what is targeted for the release
[16:49] <rickspencer3> ACTION: rickspencer3 to ask bdmurray about included targetedness of bugs in bug query
[16:49] <rickspencer3> but in general, I do not feel like we are as organized about identifying the right bugs to fix as we could be
[16:49] <rickspencer3> and of course, I have no solution to that :(
[16:50] <rickspencer3> </soapbox>
[16:50] <rickspencer3> ok, pitti go ahead
[16:50] <pitti> ok, so just starting with bugs then
[16:50] <pitti> as a refreshment for everyone, but also for our newcomers
[16:50] <pitti> in general, we track bugs that we really must/want to fix for lucid as targetted bugs against lucid with an appropriate priority
[16:51] <pitti> i. e. if you see a bug which falls into that category, please do "Target to release.." and select lucid, and a good priority
[16:51] <pitti> if prio is high/critical, it becomes a release blocker, and falls onto the release team's radar
[16:51] <pitti> everything below is "target of opportunity"
[16:52] <pitti> important:
[16:52] <pitti> - select an appropriate milestone
[16:52] <pitti> - assign the bug!
[16:52] <pitti> there's nothing more useless than a targetted unassigned bugs
[16:52] <pitti> either assign it to someone where you know it's appropriate
[16:52] <pitti> if in doubt assign it to canonical-desktop-team
[16:52] <pitti> I monitor those
[16:53] <rickspencer3> pitti, what should we do if someone assigns us a bug that doesn't seem quite right for us to fix?
[16:53] <pitti> to complement that, please ensure that you filter bug mail to treat assigned/subscribed bugs high
[16:53] <rickspencer3> like if someone assigned an xorg bug to kenvandine and an indicator bug to bryce?
[16:53] <pitti> rickspencer3: then please unassign with a comment, and possibly tag it ct-rev (if it comes from QA)
[16:54] <pitti> oh, then please just fix the assignee
[16:54] <rickspencer3> ok
[16:54] <pitti> but QA team (and others) just generally assign to c-d-t
[16:54] <rickspencer3> but if you don't think it's a really bug do that ^ ?
[16:54] <pitti> so if you do that as well, it falls into the very same workflow
[16:54] <rickspencer3> thanks
[16:54] <pitti> from my POV this has worked quite well for quite a while
[16:54] <rickspencer3> that = unassign, comment, ct-rev tag?
[16:54] <pitti> ^ right
[16:54] <pitti> ct-rev isn't widely used, I believe
[16:55] <rickspencer3> yeah
[16:55] <pitti> so that's really optional
[16:55] <rickspencer3> it never caught on, really
[16:55] <kenvandine> what is the ct-rev tag for?
[16:55] <pitti> it was meant to avoid having an unassigned bug pop up again on the QA radar
[16:55] <kenvandine> ah
[16:55] <kenvandine> ok
[16:55] <pitti> and getting it reassigned
[16:55] <pitti> "canonical team reviewed"
[16:56] <pitti> any questions about tracking bugs?
[16:56] <bryceh> heh, forgot about ct-rev
[16:56] <seb128> I feel we miss something there
[16:56] <seb128> but I'm not sure it counts as a question
[16:56] <pitti> seb128: go ahead
[16:57] <seb128> well this workflow is fine to track blockers or fires or qa spotted bugs
[16:57] <seb128> but I feel we have tons of very annoying bugs
[16:57] <seb128> and that we should have an overview of those too
[16:57] <pitti> target to lucid/assign/prio "low" or "medium" is for that
[16:57] <seb128> so people know what to work on when they are out of blockers
[16:57] <pitti> that's the "target of opportunity" category I mentioned
[16:57] <pitti> i. e. everything which isn't high/critical
[16:58] <seb128> I think we do a poor job at spotting what bugs ought to be fixed in those target of opportunity
[16:58] <seb128> and don't valuate enough how fixing some non blocker bugs can impact on the user experience
[16:58] <seb128> we have thousand of target of opportunity bugs
[16:59] <seb128> we have no concrete metric or overview or anything to work on that list in a organized maner
[16:59] <seb128> but that's just my feeling
[16:59] <seb128> end of comment
[16:59] <pitti> we have gravity now, and QA sending us quite a range of bugs
[16:59] <seb128> sorry for being verbose ;-)
[16:59] <seb128> that's great
[16:59] <pitti> and of course everyone is invited and required to help out with that in their particular area of expertise
[16:59] <rickspencer3> pitti, I think there was a suggestion in seb128's comment
[17:00] <seb128> I still think we don't do any organize work around those tools
[17:00] <rickspencer3> that we make some kind of goal setting
[17:00] <rickspencer3> like have a burn down chart, or some % of a bug list to target, etc...
[17:00] <seb128> I would like to see a chart counting like one hundred bugs we aim at fixing as time allow for lucid
[17:00] <seb128> and see how much progress we can do through those
[17:00] <rickspencer3> pitti, seb128 may I suggest that seb128 work on that?
[17:01] <pitti> well, if we target the bugs, then creating lists/charts/etc. is easy
[17:01] <rickspencer3> seems good practice for preparing for temporary tech lead role :)
[17:01] <seb128> ;-)
[17:01] <pitti> sounds great to me :)
[17:01] <rickspencer3> seb128, sound okay?
[17:01] <seb128> to me too!
[17:01] <pitti> but the primary needle eye seems to be finding the right bugs
[17:01] <seb128> yes
[17:01] <pitti> not tracking them, etc. (since that's well understood and working IMHO)
[17:01] <rickspencer3> ACTION: seb128 to generate a list of 100 "right" bugs to fix in Lucid
[17:02] <seb128> pitti, right, the important part is to build that list
[17:02] <pitti> ... with everyoen contributing to the list
[17:02] <seb128> I've to admit I feel personnaly lost in the middle of the target of opportunity bugs
[17:02] <rickspencer3> well, I would like to see some kind of criteria that builds that list
[17:02] <seb128> and I'm not convinced the one I work one are the one I should be spending time on
[17:02] <rickspencer3> but, I'll leave it to seb128
[17:02] <seb128> one*s*
[17:03] <rickspencer3> pitti, wrt release status ...
[17:03] <pitti> seb128: do you think gravity/hotness is a good part of that metric?
[17:03] <pitti> rickspencer3: yes, I've got plenty to say still
[17:03] <rickspencer3> good
[17:03] <rickspencer3> ga
[17:03] <pitti> ok, so action for everyone, please target the bugs you think ought to be fixed
[17:03] <pitti> then let's see next week what we have
[17:04] <pitti> http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/canonical-desktop-team-ubuntu-10.04-beta-1.html<<BR>> [17:04] <seb128> pitti, yes
[17:04] <pitti> as you can see, we are a "tad" above the trend line
[17:04] <pitti> we basically have until Thursday to get beta-1 stuff in
[17:04] <pitti> I just closed two default-apps WIs, which are done
[17:04] <rickspencer3> uh
[17:04] <pitti> for us, the remaining thing there is to discuss the fate of pitivi
[17:05] <pitti> (I'll discuss the other specs later on)
[17:05] <rickspencer3> pitti, discuss that now?
[17:05] <pitti> rickspencer3: you think we shouldn't?
[17:05] <rickspencer3> no, I think we should
[17:05] <pitti> I actually spent some two hours on pitivi on teh weekend to create some .avis from my parent's video cam
[17:06] <pitti> it's crash-o-rama, and didn't import half of the clips, but at least I got the (admittedly very simple) task done
[17:06] <rickspencer3> realy?
[17:06] <rickspencer3> that surprises me, as I have not add issues like that
[17:06] <pitti> team opinions for yay/nay?
[17:07] <pitti> let's do a quick poll
[17:07] <rickspencer3> I was firmly yay until pitti's crash-o-rama comment
[17:07] <rickspencer3> hi bilboed-tp and komputes
[17:07] <rickspencer3> all - these guys are pitivi upstream
[17:07] <SEJeff_work> Has the latest gnonlin landed in lucid yet?
[17:07] <pitti> well, apparenlty only some thread crashes all the time
[17:07] <rickspencer3> and they are awesome and easy to work with
[17:07] <seb128> pitti, 0.13.4 due tomorrow
[17:07] <seb128> we will get the updates today with the pre-version
[17:07] <bilboed-tp> what seb128 said
[17:07] <nekohayo> rickspencer3, I've seen tons of crash bugs on launchpad that are on 0.13.3 and seem to be linked to the HAL thing
[17:07] <bilboed-tp> pushing out a pre-release right now
[17:08] <seb128> what we have now is outdated we can't really judge on those
[17:08] <komputes> hi rickspencer3
[17:08] <rickspencer3> funny
[17:08] <seb128> bilboed-tp, thanks for the good work btw ;-)
[17:08] <pitti> rickspencer3: imports> yes, it refuses to import any clip which takes longer than 10s to index or so
[17:08] <komputes> hi bilboed-tp, will be testing the new pitivi this week
[17:08] <rickspencer3> it has been working well for me, and works with gtk-record-my-desktop, etc...
[17:08] <komputes> (in lucid)
[17:08] <nekohayo> and just look at this: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/buglist.cgi?query_format=advanced&target_milestone=0.13.4&product=pitivi<<BR>> [17:08] <pitti> looking forward to testing 0.13.4 then!
[17:08] <didrocks> so, making some video mounting test on the following days? once getting the new version?
[17:08] <nekohayo> (my point is: huge amount of bugs fixed since 0.13.3)
[17:08] <seb128> yes
[17:09] <bilboed-tp> gimme 5mins and the 0.13.3.2 pre-release tarballs will be out
[17:09] <pitti> the import bug was easy enough to work around, too (update timeout to 600 s)
[17:09] <rickspencer3> pitti, may I suggest that everyone makes a video or two this week, and discuss again next week?
[17:09] <kenvandine> i can
[17:09] <pitti> so, my proposal was to keep it in beta-1, and go with it barring major catastrophes
[17:09] * kenvandine has some video of the kids needing editing :)
[17:09] <seb128> rickspencer3, ok
[17:09] <nekohayo> pitti, the import bug is fixed in 0.13.4
[17:09] <pitti> nekohayo: sweet
[17:09] <seb128> pitti, +1
[17:09] <nekohayo> with recent gstreamer packages
[17:09] <nekohayo> afaik.
[17:09] <twi_> yup
[17:09] <seb128> we have uptodate gstreamer
[17:09] <seb128> or will be soon
[17:10] <rickspencer3> the pitivi team is lucky that we work from home, or I would be hugging them all right now
[17:10] <twi_> and gnonlin, a new release was pushed today
[17:10] * bilboed-tp scratches head
[17:10] <nekohayo> hahaha
[17:10] * komputes chuckles
[17:10] <pitti> rickspencer3: sure, more testing is always good Smile :) WDYT about the proposal?
[17:10] * pitti assumes "yes"
[17:10] <kenvandine> yes
[17:10] * bilboed-tp makes pre-release depend on latest gst-plugins-good just to be sure
[17:10] <rickspencer3> pitti, yes
[17:10] <seb128> bilboed-tp, we have .21
[17:10] <seb128> should be ok ;-)
[17:10] <pitti> ok, great
[17:11] <pitti> before beta-1, review status of pitivi and decide about its fate (keep): DONE
[17:11] <rickspencer3> thanks pitti :)
[17:11] <bilboed-tp> seb128, yes
[17:11] <pitti> so, that leaves some f-spot editing UI review for djsiegel, which sohuld be fine
[17:11] * rickspencer3 refrains from bringing up 7 TODO work items for gdm setup that are still on the burndown chart
[17:11] <rickspencer3> pitti, more for release status?
[17:11] <bilboed-tp> seb128, if you have all releases from the past 3 days, then it's all good. you just need to make sure gnonlin 0.10.15 from a couple of hours ago goes in
[17:11] <djsiegel> pitti: say what?
[17:11] <pitti> djsiegel: your two WIs in https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-lucid-default-apps<<BR>> [17:12] <seb128> bilboed-tp, no worry I've that under control
[17:12] <pitti> so, next thing
[17:12] <bilboed-tp> seb128, thx
[17:12] <pitti> chrisccoulson: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-lucid-services-settings-window<<BR>> [17:12] <djsiegel> pitti, ok
[17:12] <pitti> chrisccoulson: do you have time/motivation/etc. to check this this week?
[17:12] <seb128> bilboed-tp, np, thank you for the work you are doing ;-)
[17:12] <pitti> or should we cut it?
[17:12] <chrisccoulson> pitti - i don't think i'll have the time to look at that this week. the rest of my week is going to be taken up by xulrunner 1.9.2 transition now
[17:12] <pitti> seb128: same question about https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-lucid-gdmsetup<<BR>> [17:13] <pitti> chrisccoulson: ok, let's cut it then
[17:13] <chrisccoulson> thanks
[17:13] <seb128> pitti, :-(
[17:14] <rickspencer3> :(
[17:14] <rickspencer3> this is a very unfortunate cut
[17:14] <rickspencer3> but we have to do what we have to do
[17:14] <pitti> really?
[17:14] <pitti> services-admin is somethign to shoot yourself into the foot IMHO
[17:14] <pitti> seb128: well, if you really want to get it back, I'll work on it tomorrow
[17:14] <rickspencer3> pitti, right, if it's not all tweaked and tested by now, better to drop it
[17:15] <komputes> pitti: are you suggesting dropping the development of a new gdmsetup in lucid? :(
[17:15] <didrocks> I think the "prevent autologin for user using encryption for their home" is needed and can be quick to do.
[17:15] <seb128> pitti, my ":-(" was for gdmsetup, I hate not having a way to turn off login sound
[17:15] <rickspencer3> for gdm setup, I think we would be better served helping the gdm setup community project get into universe
[17:15] <pitti> ah
[17:15] <seb128> pitti, it's a show blocker for users in public places
[17:15] <seb128> like students who go to the library
[17:15] <pitti> the "cut" so far was for https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-lucid-services-settings-window<<BR>> [17:15] <komputes> seb128: or offices
[17:15] <pitti> seb128: yes, I agree
[17:15] <rickspencer3> yes
[17:16] <seb128> I can't believe we will get a lts without a way to make your computer silent
[17:16] <seb128> it seems such a trivial requirement for lot of people
[17:16] <pitti> seb128: so, do you want to work on it this week, and I take some of your gnome updates/other work? or want me to work on gdmsetup?
[17:16] <seb128> but *shrug*
[17:16] <chrisccoulson> yeah, i'd like to be able to disable the login sound with a baby in the room next door
[17:16] * ArneGoetje has a "Mute" key combination on his laptop for this.
[17:16] <chrisccoulson> :)
[17:16] <seb128> pitti, I will look at it tomorrow and keep you updated
[17:16] <pitti> seb128: I'm not at all attached to services-admin, but I am to gdmsetup..
[17:16] <seb128> same here
[17:16] <pitti> seb128: merci; please let me know if I can help out with updates, etc.
[17:16] <seb128> I don't care about services-admin, I don't think normal users know or care about those
[17:16] <pitti> kenvandine: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-lucid-social-from-the-start<<BR>> [17:16] <rickspencer3> seb128, what's the status of hte GM setup tool that community created?
[17:17] * kenvandine prefers normal users not have it
[17:17] <seb128> pitti, we are done with updates but thanks
[17:17] <rickspencer3> pitti, hold on, I'm not quite done with gdm setup, I think I am not in agreement with seb128
[17:17] <kenvandine> pitti, just the exception stuff i want, and i should be able to start working on it tonight
[17:17] <seb128> rickspencer3, it's an hackish pygtk tool running undo sudo and calling gconftool commands
[17:17] <pitti> kenvandine: ok, so let's keep it on the list then
[17:17] <kenvandine> yeah
[17:17] <seb128> rickspencer3, out of disliking the design it probably does the job
[17:17] <kenvandine> pitti, it is important
[17:17] <rickspencer3> so it's not suitable for universe to fulfill the use-cases you bring up
[17:17] <rickspencer3> ?
[17:17] <komputes> pitti, well the way to disable a service/job (upstart) atm is renaming a file, correct? We truely do need a graphical way of doing this which is non-destructive...
[17:17] <pitti> kenvandine: right, but time is running out; beta freeze is in two days..
[17:18] <kenvandine> i know... i know
[17:18] <seb128> rickspencer3, it's fine for universe I guess
[17:18] <kenvandine> pitti, i'll do my best :)
[17:18] <pitti> komputes: you really oughn't to disable most upstart jobs
[17:18] <rickspencer3> does it fulfill the use cases?
[17:18] <seb128> rickspencer3, still having to find it to be able to have a quiet computer is a slap in the face for users
[17:18] <seb128> rickspencer3, supposed they ever find it in the middle of 18000 binaries yes
[17:18] <pitti> rickspencer3: I'd rather add two more buttons to our gdmsetup (which we know to work) than switching to an entirely different tool
[17:18] <rickspencer3> seb128, have you added the mute feature to gdm setup now?
[17:19] <seb128> pitti, he doesn't suggest switching I think, just to have a tool in universe which does that
[17:19] <seb128> rickspencer3, no
[17:19] <seb128> rickspencer3, which is why I ":-(" before
[17:19] <pitti> seb128: hm, but nobody will find that, or have it when needed..
[17:19] <rickspencer3> right
[17:19] <komputes> pitti: examples of daemons users want to disable simply include openssh-server, proftpd, apache etc, I understand and agree most system services don't need to be touched by users
[17:19] <rickspencer3> hold on, one thing at a time
[17:19] <pitti> komputes: right, those aren't upstartified yet
[17:20] <rickspencer3> komputes, the start up services UI is out of scope now
[17:20] <bilboed-tp> seb128, 0.13.3.2 pre-release tarball available here : http://ftp.gnome.org/pub/GNOME/sources/pitivi/0.13/<<BR>> [17:20] <seb128> bilboed-tp, thanks
[17:20] <komputes> pitti: right, but we expect users to know the diff between an upstart job and a a script run through SysV scripts
[17:20] <rickspencer3> I don't see how we can have a hope of delivering something that doesn't cause way more problems than it solves
[17:20] <komputes> rickspencer3: that's too bad :(
[17:20] <rickspencer3> komputes, I agree
[17:20] <pitti> djsiegel: please add your review comments to the bottom of the whiteboard (not into the work item); just set the WI to "done" after review
[17:21] <rickspencer3> but delivering on time and with quality is an important feature
[17:21] <rickspencer3> let us back up and making a running start at this in Lucid + 1
[17:21] <rickspencer3> for gdm setup, I propose that seb128 discuss off line and see if we can negotiate a way forward
[17:21] <seb128> ok
[17:21] <rickspencer3> I feel that any work we do now is throwing good money after bad
[17:22] <didrocks> still, we allow people to choose a user for autologin even if they have an encrypted partition. Once you've done that, you're screwed, the only solution is to reboot in recovery mode and change the custom.conf file with a CLI editor…
[17:22] <rickspencer3> pitti, are you agreeable about delegating gdm setup discussion to seb128 and I?
[17:22] <pitti> rickspencer3: sure, that's fine
[17:22] <pitti> I just wanted to point out that time is running out :/
[17:22] <rickspencer3> didrocks, that sounds like a bug
[17:22] <pitti> then, the remaining big thing is https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-lucid-dx-integration<<BR>> [17:22] * rickspencer3 considers time to have already run out ;)
[17:22] <rickspencer3> pitti, kenvandine had to step away
[17:23] <pitti> I think some WIs are actually done
[17:23] <pitti> boot: get the plymounth plugins in?: TODO
[17:23] <pitti> like that
[17:23] <rickspencer3> these work items to be seem to reflect that he has done some good planning
[17:23] <pitti> application indicator: other apps in best community effort: TODO
[17:23] <pitti> and that's a pretty pointless WI anyway
[17:23] <pitti> so I think there's some noise here
[17:24] <pitti> so I think it's much fewer WIs for beta-1 than it seems at first sight
[17:24] <rickspencer3> pitti, would you like to work with kenvandine to clean up that noise?
[17:24] <pitti> I'll discuss with Ken when he comes back, and try to clean up a little
[17:24] <pitti> snap :)
[17:24] <rickspencer3> :)
[17:24] <seb128> "theming: the design team will have theme tweaking or a new theme to get in lucid: TODO"
[17:24] <seb128> is probably a DONE too
[17:24] <rickspencer3> lol
[17:25] <rickspencer3> yeah, probably :)
[17:25] <pitti> </release status>
[17:25] <rickspencer3> pitti, thanks for driving us in such an organized manner
[17:25] <pitti> rickspencer3: mike back to you
[17:25] <jcastro> pitti: you can done "other apps in best community effort", we got like 3 good ones out of it
[17:25] <rickspencer3> and also for tolerating my clockwork-like predictability in freaking about about finishing out the release
[17:26] <rickspencer3> :)
[17:26] <rickspencer3> ok
[17:26] <pitti> rickspencer3: which is not totally unjustified -- time is running out for bug fixing as wel..
[17:26] <rickspencer3> let's finish out real quick with a reminder ...
[17:26] <rickspencer3> Guadec is coming up!
[17:26] <rickspencer3> the organizes asked me to remind everyone that papers are due in 11 days
[17:26] <rickspencer3> and to encourage everyone to submit if they want to
[17:27] <rickspencer3> also, I put the mailing list on the wiki
[17:27] <rickspencer3> if you want to, you can subscribe to that mailing list and look for opportunities to help
[17:27] <rickspencer3> if you are wondering if you should go to guedec, submit a paper, etc...
[17:28] <rickspencer3> please get me offline and we can discuss, but the answer if probably "yes" if you are at all intersted :)
[17:28] <rickspencer3> ok
[17:28] <rickspencer3> any other business?
[17:28] <seb128> no
[17:29] <rickspencer3> great
[17:29] <rickspencer3> that's a warp
[17:29] <rickspencer3> a wrap too
[16:46] <Riddell> ah asac, how about that MIR?
[16:46] <ccheney> rickspencer3: hopefully yea if this does work it shouldn't take more than another day
[16:47] <ccheney> rickspencer3: and it sounds like it is a workable solution
[16:47] <rickspencer3> ok
[16:47] <rickspencer3> time is now getting a bit tight on this
[16:47] <rickspencer3> but I guess we can only continue to sit tight
[16:48] <rickspencer3> ok
[16:48] <asac> Riddell: have the source now ...
[16:48] <rickspencer3> next is release status ... I'll turn the mic over to pitti in a moment
[16:48] <rickspencer3> first:
[16:48] <rickspencer3> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2010-03-09/BugList<<BR>> [16:48] <rickspencer3> this is High and Critical assigned bugs
[16:48] <asac> Riddell: lets talk offline after this meeting Wink ;) (sorry i am out again)
[16:49] <rickspencer3> I noticed that our cron job query does not have all the data needed to see what is targeted for the release
[16:49] <rickspencer3> ACTION: rickspencer3 to ask bdmurray about included targetedness of bugs in bug query
[16:49] <rickspencer3> but in general, I do not feel like we are as organized about identifying the right bugs to fix as we could be
[16:49] <rickspencer3> and of course, I have no solution to that :(
[16:50] <rickspencer3> </soapbox>
[16:50] <rickspencer3> ok, pitti go ahead
[16:50] <pitti> ok, so just starting with bugs then
[16:50] <pitti> as a refreshment for everyone, but also for our newcomers
[16:50] <pitti> in general, we track bugs that we really must/want to fix for lucid as targetted bugs against lucid with an appropriate priority
[16:51] <pitti> i. e. if you see a bug which falls into that category, please do "Target to release.." and select lucid, and a good priority
[16:51] <pitti> if prio is high/critical, it becomes a release blocker, and falls onto the release team's radar
[16:51] <pitti> everything below is "target of opportunity"
[16:52] <pitti> important:
[16:52] <pitti> - select an appropriate milestone
[16:52] <pitti> - assign the bug!
[16:52] <pitti> there's nothing more useless than a targetted unassigned bugs
[16:52] <pitti> either assign it to someone where you know it's appropriate
[16:52] <pitti> if in doubt assign it to canonical-desktop-team
[16:52] <pitti> I monitor those
[16:53] <rickspencer3> pitti, what should we do if someone assigns us a bug that doesn't seem quite right for us to fix?
[16:53] <pitti> to complement that, please ensure that you filter bug mail to treat assigned/subscribed bugs high
[16:53] <rickspencer3> like if someone assigned an xorg bug to kenvandine and an indicator bug to bryce?
[16:53] <pitti> rickspencer3: then please unassign with a comment, and possibly tag it ct-rev (if it comes from QA)
[16:54] <pitti> oh, then please just fix the assignee
[16:54] <rickspencer3> ok
[16:54] <pitti> but QA team (and others) just generally assign to c-d-t
[16:54] <rickspencer3> but if you don't think it's a really bug do that ^ ?
[16:54] <pitti> so if you do that as well, it falls into the very same workflow
[16:54] <rickspencer3> thanks
[16:54] <pitti> from my POV this has worked quite well for quite a while
[16:54] <rickspencer3> that = unassign, comment, ct-rev tag?
[16:54] <pitti> ^ right
[16:54] <pitti> ct-rev isn't widely used, I believe
[16:55] <rickspencer3> yeah
[16:55] <pitti> so that's really optional
[16:55] <rickspencer3> it never caught on, really
[16:55] <kenvandine> what is the ct-rev tag for?
[16:55] <pitti> it was meant to avoid having an unassigned bug pop up again on the QA radar
[16:55] <kenvandine> ah
[16:55] <kenvandine> ok
[16:55] <pitti> and getting it reassigned
[16:55] <pitti> "canonical team reviewed"
[16:56] <pitti> any questions about tracking bugs?
[16:56] <bryceh> heh, forgot about ct-rev
[16:56] <seb128> I feel we miss something there
[16:56] <seb128> but I'm not sure it counts as a question
[16:56] <pitti> seb128: go ahead
[16:57] <seb128> well this workflow is fine to track blockers or fires or qa spotted bugs
[16:57] <seb128> but I feel we have tons of very annoying bugs
[16:57] <seb128> and that we should have an overview of those too
[16:57] <pitti> target to lucid/assign/prio "low" or "medium" is for that
[16:57] <seb128> so people know what to work on when they are out of blockers
[16:57] <pitti> that's the "target of opportunity" category I mentioned
[16:57] <pitti> i. e. everything which isn't high/critical
[16:58] <seb128> I think we do a poor job at spotting what bugs ought to be fixed in those target of opportunity
[16:58] <seb128> and don't valuate enough how fixing some non blocker bugs can impact on the user experience
[16:58] <seb128> we have thousand of target of opportunity bugs
[16:59] <seb128> we have no concrete metric or overview or anything to work on that list in a organized maner
[16:59] <seb128> but that's just my feeling
[16:59] <seb128> end of comment
[16:59] <pitti> we have gravity now, and QA sending us quite a range of bugs
[16:59] <seb128> sorry for being verbose ;-)
[16:59] <seb128> that's great
[16:59] <pitti> and of course everyone is invited and required to help out with that in their particular area of expertise
[16:59] <rickspencer3> pitti, I think there was a suggestion in seb128's comment
[17:00] <seb128> I still think we don't do any organize work around those tools
[17:00] <rickspencer3> that we make some kind of goal setting
[17:00] <rickspencer3> like have a burn down chart, or some % of a bug list to target, etc...
[17:00] <seb128> I would like to see a chart counting like one hundred bugs we aim at fixing as time allow for lucid
[17:00] <seb128> and see how much progress we can do through those
[17:00] <rickspencer3> pitti, seb128 may I suggest that seb128 work on that?
[17:01] <pitti> well, if we target the bugs, then creating lists/charts/etc. is easy
[17:01] <rickspencer3> seems good practice for preparing for temporary tech lead role :)
[17:01] <seb128> ;-)
[17:01] <pitti> sounds great to me :)
[17:01] <rickspencer3> seb128, sound okay?
[17:01] <seb128> to me too!
[17:01] <pitti> but the primary needle eye seems to be finding the right bugs
[17:01] <seb128> yes
[17:01] <pitti> not tracking them, etc. (since that's well understood and working IMHO)
[17:01] <rickspencer3> ACTION: seb128 to generate a list of 100 "right" bugs to fix in Lucid
[17:02] <seb128> pitti, right, the important part is to build that list
[17:02] <pitti> ... with everyoen contributing to the list
[17:02] <seb128> I've to admit I feel personnaly lost in the middle of the target of opportunity bugs
[17:02] <rickspencer3> well, I would like to see some kind of criteria that builds that list
[17:02] <seb128> and I'm not convinced the one I work one are the one I should be spending time on
[17:02] <rickspencer3> but, I'll leave it to seb128
[17:02] <seb128> one*s*
[17:03] <rickspencer3> pitti, wrt release status ...
[17:03] <pitti> seb128: do you think gravity/hotness is a good part of that metric?
[17:03] <pitti> rickspencer3: yes, I've got plenty to say still
[17:03] <rickspencer3> good
[17:03] <rickspencer3> ga
[17:03] <pitti> ok, so action for everyone, please target the bugs you think ought to be fixed
[17:03] <pitti> then let's see next week what we have
[17:04] <pitti> http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/canonical-desktop-team-ubuntu-10.04-beta-1.html<<BR>> [17:04] <seb128> pitti, yes
[17:04] <pitti> as you can see, we are a "tad" above the trend line
[17:04] <pitti> we basically have until Thursday to get beta-1 stuff in
[17:04] <pitti> I just closed two default-apps WIs, which are done
[17:04] <rickspencer3> uh
[17:04] <pitti> for us, the remaining thing there is to discuss the fate of pitivi
[17:05] <pitti> (I'll discuss the other specs later on)
[17:05] <rickspencer3> pitti, discuss that now?
[17:05] <pitti> rickspencer3: you think we shouldn't?
[17:05] <rickspencer3> no, I think we should
[17:05] <pitti> I actually spent some two hours on pitivi on teh weekend to create some .avis from my parent's video cam
[17:06] <pitti> it's crash-o-rama, and didn't import half of the clips, but at least I got the (admittedly very simple) task done
[17:06] <rickspencer3> realy?
[17:06] <rickspencer3> that surprises me, as I have not add issues like that
[17:06] <pitti> team opinions for yay/nay?
[17:07] <pitti> let's do a quick poll
[17:07] <rickspencer3> I was firmly yay until pitti's crash-o-rama comment
[17:07] <rickspencer3> hi bilboed-tp and komputes
[17:07] <rickspencer3> all - these guys are pitivi upstream
[17:07] <SEJeff_work> Has the latest gnonlin landed in lucid yet?
[17:07] <pitti> well, apparenlty only some thread crashes all the time
[17:07] <rickspencer3> and they are awesome and easy to work with
[17:07] <seb128> pitti, 0.13.4 due tomorrow
[17:07] <seb128> we will get the updates today with the pre-version
[17:07] <bilboed-tp> what seb128 said
[17:07] <nekohayo> rickspencer3, I've seen tons of crash bugs on launchpad that are on 0.13.3 and seem to be linked to the HAL thing
[17:07] <bilboed-tp> pushing out a pre-release right now
[17:08] <seb128> what we have now is outdated we can't really judge on those
[17:08] <komputes> hi rickspencer3
[17:08] <rickspencer3> funny
[17:08] <seb128> bilboed-tp, thanks for the good work btw ;-)
[17:08] <pitti> rickspencer3: imports> yes, it refuses to import any clip which takes longer than 10s to index or so
[17:08] <komputes> hi bilboed-tp, will be testing the new pitivi this week
[17:08] <rickspencer3> it has been working well for me, and works with gtk-record-my-desktop, etc...
[17:08] <komputes> (in lucid)
[17:08] <nekohayo> and just look at this: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/buglist.cgi?query_format=advanced&target_milestone=0.13.4&product=pitivi<<BR>> [17:08] <pitti> looking forward to testing 0.13.4 then!
[17:08] <didrocks> so, making some video mounting test on the following days? once getting the new version?
[17:08] <nekohayo> (my point is: huge amount of bugs fixed since 0.13.3)
[17:08] <seb128> yes
[17:09] <bilboed-tp> gimme 5mins and the 0.13.3.2 pre-release tarballs will be out
[17:09] <pitti> the import bug was easy enough to work around, too (update timeout to 600 s)
[17:09] <rickspencer3> pitti, may I suggest that everyone makes a video or two this week, and discuss again next week?
[17:09] <kenvandine> i can
[17:09] <pitti> so, my proposal was to keep it in beta-1, and go with it barring major catastrophes
[17:09] * kenvandine has some video of the kids needing editing :)
[17:09] <seb128> rickspencer3, ok
[17:09] <nekohayo> pitti, the import bug is fixed in 0.13.4
[17:09] <pitti> nekohayo: sweet
[17:09] <seb128> pitti, +1
[17:09] <nekohayo> with recent gstreamer packages
[17:09] <nekohayo> afaik.
[17:09] <twi_> yup
[17:09] <seb128> we have uptodate gstreamer
[17:09] <seb128> or will be soon
[17:10] <rickspencer3> the pitivi team is lucky that we work from home, or I would be hugging them all right now
[17:10] <twi_> and gnonlin, a new release was pushed today
[17:10] * bilboed-tp scratches head
[17:10] <nekohayo> hahaha
[17:10] * komputes chuckles
[17:10] <pitti> rickspencer3: sure, more testing is always good Smile :) WDYT about the proposal?
[17:10] * pitti assumes "yes"
[17:10] <kenvandine> yes
[17:10] * bilboed-tp makes pre-release depend on latest gst-plugins-good just to be sure
[17:10] <rickspencer3> pitti, yes
[17:10] <seb128> bilboed-tp, we have .21
[17:10] <seb128> should be ok ;-)
[17:10] <pitti> ok, great
[17:11] <pitti> before beta-1, review status of pitivi and decide about its fate (keep): DONE
[17:11] <rickspencer3> thanks pitti :)
[17:11] <bilboed-tp> seb128, yes
[17:11] <pitti> so, that leaves some f-spot editing UI review for djsiegel, which sohuld be fine
[17:11] * rickspencer3 refrains from bringing up 7 TODO work items for gdm setup that are still on the burndown chart
[17:11] <rickspencer3> pitti, more for release status?
[17:11] <bilboed-tp> seb128, if you have all releases from the past 3 days, then it's all good. you just need to make sure gnonlin 0.10.15 from a couple of hours ago goes in
[17:11] <djsiegel> pitti: say what?
[17:11] <pitti> djsiegel: your two WIs in https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-lucid-default-apps<<BR>> [17:12] <seb128> bilboed-tp, no worry I've that under control
[17:12] <pitti> so, next thing
[17:12] <bilboed-tp> seb128, thx
[17:12] <pitti> chrisccoulson: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-lucid-services-settings-window<<BR>> [17:12] <djsiegel> pitti, ok
[17:12] <pitti> chrisccoulson: do you have time/motivation/etc. to check this this week?
[17:12] <seb128> bilboed-tp, np, thank you for the work you are doing ;-)
[17:12] <pitti> or should we cut it?
[17:12] <chrisccoulson> pitti - i don't think i'll have the time to look at that this week. the rest of my week is going to be taken up by xulrunner 1.9.2 transition now
[17:12] <pitti> seb128: same question about https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-lucid-gdmsetup<<BR>> [17:13] <pitti> chrisccoulson: ok, let's cut it then
[17:13] <chrisccoulson> thanks
[17:13] <seb128> pitti, :-(
[17:14] <rickspencer3> :(
[17:14] <rickspencer3> this is a very unfortunate cut
[17:14] <rickspencer3> but we have to do what we have to do
[17:14] <pitti> really?
[17:14] <pitti> services-admin is somethign to shoot yourself into the foot IMHO
[17:14] <pitti> seb128: well, if you really want to get it back, I'll work on it tomorrow
[17:14] <rickspencer3> pitti, right, if it's not all tweaked and tested by now, better to drop it
[17:15] <komputes> pitti: are you suggesting dropping the development of a new gdmsetup in lucid? :(
[17:15] <didrocks> I think the "prevent autologin for user using encryption for their home" is needed and can be quick to do.
[17:15] <seb128> pitti, my ":-(" was for gdmsetup, I hate not having a way to turn off login sound
[17:15] <rickspencer3> for gdm setup, I think we would be better served helping the gdm setup community project get into universe
[17:15] <pitti> ah
[17:15] <seb128> pitti, it's a show blocker for users in public places
[17:15] <seb128> like students who go to the library
[17:15] <pitti> the "cut" so far was for https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-lucid-services-settings-window<<BR>> [17:15] <komputes> seb128: or offices
[17:15] <pitti> seb128: yes, I agree
[17:15] <rickspencer3> yes
[17:16] <seb128> I can't believe we will get a lts without a way to make your computer silent
[17:16] <seb128> it seems such a trivial requirement for lot of people
[17:16] <pitti> seb128: so, do you want to work on it this week, and I take some of your gnome updates/other work? or want me to work on gdmsetup?
[17:16] <seb128> but *shrug*
[17:16] <chrisccoulson> yeah, i'd like to be able to disable the login sound with a baby in the room next door
[17:16] * ArneGoetje has a "Mute" key combination on his laptop for this.
[17:16] <chrisccoulson> :)
[17:16] <seb128> pitti, I will look at it tomorrow and keep you updated
[17:16] <pitti> seb128: I'm not at all attached to services-admin, but I am to gdmsetup..
[17:16] <seb128> same here
[17:16] <pitti> seb128: merci; please let me know if I can help out with updates, etc.
[17:16] <seb128> I don't care about services-admin, I don't think normal users know or care about those
[17:16] <pitti> kenvandine: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-lucid-social-from-the-start<<BR>> [17:16] <rickspencer3> seb128, what's the status of hte GM setup tool that community created?
[17:17] * kenvandine prefers normal users not have it
[17:17] <seb128> pitti, we are done with updates but thanks
[17:17] <rickspencer3> pitti, hold on, I'm not quite done with gdm setup, I think I am not in agreement with seb128
[17:17] <kenvandine> pitti, just the exception stuff i want, and i should be able to start working on it tonight
[17:17] <seb128> rickspencer3, it's an hackish pygtk tool running undo sudo and calling gconftool commands
[17:17] <pitti> kenvandine: ok, so let's keep it on the list then
[17:17] <kenvandine> yeah
[17:17] <seb128> rickspencer3, out of disliking the design it probably does the job
[17:17] <kenvandine> pitti, it is important
[17:17] <rickspencer3> so it's not suitable for universe to fulfill the use-cases you bring up
[17:17] <rickspencer3> ?
[17:17] <komputes> pitti, well the way to disable a service/job (upstart) atm is renaming a file, correct? We truely do need a graphical way of doing this which is non-destructive...
[17:17] <pitti> kenvandine: right, but time is running out; beta freeze is in two days..
[17:18] <kenvandine> i know... i know
[17:18] <seb128> rickspencer3, it's fine for universe I guess
[17:18] <kenvandine> pitti, i'll do my best :)
[17:18] <pitti> komputes: you really oughn't to disable most upstart jobs
[17:18] <rickspencer3> does it fulfill the use cases?
[17:18] <seb128> rickspencer3, still having to find it to be able to have a quiet computer is a slap in the face for users
[17:18] <seb128> rickspencer3, supposed they ever find it in the middle of 18000 binaries yes
[17:18] <pitti> rickspencer3: I'd rather add two more buttons to our gdmsetup (which we know to work) than switching to an entirely different tool
[17:18] <rickspencer3> seb128, have you added the mute feature to gdm setup now?
[17:19] <seb128> pitti, he doesn't suggest switching I think, just to have a tool in universe which does that
[17:19] <seb128> rickspencer3, no
[17:19] <seb128> rickspencer3, which is why I ":-(" before
[17:19] <pitti> seb128: hm, but nobody will find that, or have it when needed..
[17:19] <rickspencer3> right
[17:19] <komputes> pitti: examples of daemons users want to disable simply include openssh-server, proftpd, apache etc, I understand and agree most system services don't need to be touched by users
[17:19] <rickspencer3> hold on, one thing at a time
[17:19] <pitti> komputes: right, those aren't upstartified yet
[17:20] <rickspencer3> komputes, the start up services UI is out of scope now
[17:20] <bilboed-tp> seb128, 0.13.3.2 pre-release tarball available here : http://ftp.gnome.org/pub/GNOME/sources/pitivi/0.13/<<BR>> [17:20] <seb128> bilboed-tp, thanks
[17:20] <komputes> pitti: right, but we expect users to know the diff between an upstart job and a a script run through SysV scripts
[17:20] <rickspencer3> I don't see how we can have a hope of delivering something that doesn't cause way more problems than it solves
[17:20] <komputes> rickspencer3: that's too bad :(
[17:20] <rickspencer3> komputes, I agree
[17:20] <pitti> djsiegel: please add your review comments to the bottom of the whiteboard (not into the work item); just set the WI to "done" after review
[17:21] <rickspencer3> but delivering on time and with quality is an important feature
[17:21] <rickspencer3> let us back up and making a running start at this in Lucid + 1
[17:21] <rickspencer3> for gdm setup, I propose that seb128 discuss off line and see if we can negotiate a way forward
[17:21] <seb128> ok
[17:21] <rickspencer3> I feel that any work we do now is throwing good money after bad
[17:22] <didrocks> still, we allow people to choose a user for autologin even if they have an encrypted partition. Once you've done that, you're screwed, the only solution is to reboot in recovery mode and change the custom.conf file with a CLI editor…
[17:22] <rickspencer3> pitti, are you agreeable about delegating gdm setup discussion to seb128 and I?
[17:22] <pitti> rickspencer3: sure, that's fine
[17:22] <pitti> I just wanted to point out that time is running out :/
[17:22] <rickspencer3> didrocks, that sounds like a bug
[17:22] <pitti> then, the remaining big thing is https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-lucid-dx-integration<<BR>> [17:22] * rickspencer3 considers time to have already run out ;)
[17:22] <rickspencer3> pitti, kenvandine had to step away
[17:23] <pitti> I think some WIs are actually done
[17:23] <pitti> boot: get the plymounth plugins in?: TODO
[17:23] <pitti> like that
[17:23] <rickspencer3> these work items to be seem to reflect that he has done some good planning
[17:23] <pitti> application indicator: other apps in best community effort: TODO
[17:23] <pitti> and that's a pretty pointless WI anyway
[17:23] <pitti> so I think there's some noise here
[17:24] <pitti> so I think it's much fewer WIs for beta-1 than it seems at first sight
[17:24] <rickspencer3> pitti, would you like to work with kenvandine to clean up that noise?
[17:24] <pitti> I'll discuss with Ken when he comes back, and try to clean up a little
[17:24] <pitti> snap :)
[17:24] <rickspencer3> :)
[17:24] <seb128> "theming: the design team will have theme tweaking or a new theme to get in lucid: TODO"
[17:24] <seb128> is probably a DONE too
[17:24] <rickspencer3> lol
[17:25] <rickspencer3> yeah, probably :)
[17:25] <pitti> </release status>
[17:25] <rickspencer3> pitti, thanks for driving us in such an organized manner
[17:25] <pitti> rickspencer3: mike back to you
[17:25] <jcastro> pitti: you can done "other apps in best community effort", we got like 3 good ones out of it
[17:25] <rickspencer3> and also for tolerating my clockwork-like predictability in freaking about about finishing out the release
[17:26] <rickspencer3> :)
[17:26] <rickspencer3> ok
[17:26] <pitti> rickspencer3: which is not totally unjustified -- time is running out for bug fixing as wel..
[17:26] <rickspencer3> let's finish out real quick with a reminder ...
[17:26] <rickspencer3> Guadec is coming up!
[17:26] <rickspencer3> the organizes asked me to remind everyone that papers are due in 11 days
[17:26] <rickspencer3> and to encourage everyone to submit if they want to
[17:27] <rickspencer3> also, I put the mailing list on the wiki
[17:27] <rickspencer3> if you want to, you can subscribe to that mailing list and look for opportunities to help
[17:27] <rickspencer3> if you are wondering if you should go to guedec, submit a paper, etc...
[17:28] <rickspencer3> please get me offline and we can discuss, but the answer if probably "yes" if you are at all intersted :)
[17:28] <rickspencer3> ok
[17:28] <rickspencer3> any other business?
[17:28] <seb128> no
[17:29] <rickspencer3> great
[17:29] <rickspencer3> that's a warp
[17:29] <rickspencer3> a wrap too


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DesktopTeam/Meeting/2010-03-09 (last edited 2010-03-09 22:04:59 by rick-rickspencer3)