= UDD stakeholders meeting 2010-11-03 2100 UTC = Meeting conducted on #ubuntu-meeting @freenode. Duration: 1 hour max. Chair: Barry Warsaw == Agenda == * Action items * barry to start some sphinx docs to be well-integrated w/ wiki.u.c (ongoing) * barry to talk to dholbach about making sure udd is well advertised in pkg guide (done) * poolie to start list thread to find problems which can be carried on at UDS (ongoing) * UDS post-mortem * Top bugs: * bzr branches are too expensive to use for casual sponsoring, compared with downloading packages from my local mirror (slangasek) * [[https://launchpad.net/bugs/295274|(watch file support)]] - james_w and barry to sprint on that at uds-n * [[https://launchpad.net/bugs/653307|Import fails with missing referenced chk root keys]] * [[https://bugs.launchpad.net/bzr/+bug/603395|bzr commit in a heavyweight checkout does not propagate new tags]] * [[https://launchpad.net/bugs/653832|Import fails with "trying to import version ... again"]] * [[https://launchpad.net/bugs/499684|Interface to dpkg-buildpackage inconsistent and not well documented]] * changelog merge problem (probably caused by dpkg-mergechangelogs). need more investigation by barry * USA leaves DST * Pushing changes to Debian (python-cheetah use case) * AOB == Summary == * UDS was good. Though we had some scheduling snafus the planning session went well. More people seem to be trying UDD. * `submittodebian` is a good way to get changes to them; a `bzr submittodebian` might be nice == New action items == * barry to contact poolie about getting his UDS session notes into the blueprint == Meeting log == {{{ #startmeeting Meeting started at 16:02. The chair is barry. Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE] * james_w apologies as he will have to leave before the hour mark ah... is this the time we had it last time? it is [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DistributedDevelopment/20101103 LINK received: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DistributedDevelopment/20101103 I'm pretty sure me utc-wise, yes :) flacoste: hi! barry: poolie is * ajmitch is here, though I'd forgotten about it [17:03] [TOPIC] action items [17:04] New Topic: action items * barry to start some sphinx docs to be well-integrated w/ wiki.u.c not done * barry to talk to dholbach about making sure udd is well advertised in pkg guide i did talk a little to dholbach about this at one of the many uds sessions. james_w was probably there too (as was poolie). he wants to promote/document udd we just have to figure out how to do this so i think this item is "done" though there's probably a future action item about actually helping dholbach with the integration james_w: your thoughts? indeed barry, I agree with barry cool * poolie to start list thread to find problems which can be carried on at UDS i think this is not done Just as a note on historical practices, it might be better to take an action to write the docs in consultation with dholbach, rather than helping him with them. persia: i figure it will us writing the bulk of the docs and daniel helping to integrate them [17:07] well, poolie's action item is probably moot now, but i'll leave it on the agenda until he says otherwise [TOPIC] * UDS post-mortem [17:08] New Topic: * UDS post-mortem just a quick apology for letting two of our sessions get lost in the shuffle. after talking with robbiew about rescheduling due to poolie's travel adventures, i lost track of the sessions and realized too late that the education and user feedback sessions didn't get rescheduled :( i take the blame for that [17:09] we did have a good planning session though i thought we need to get poolie's notes into the blueprint though because gobby was down at the time i'll take an action item to check with him on that [17:10] [ACTION] barry to ask poolie to put his session notes in the blueprint ACTION received: barry to ask poolie to put his session notes in the blueprint does anybody else have any feedback on uds? I found it very useful [17:11] there was better feedback than previous UDS, so I think that it's something people are thinking about much more unfortunately though there are still plenty of hurdles true. on the positive side, i've heard we may have a really stellar candidate for the job opening [17:12] excellent [17:13] i also think the planning session was really excellent. great feedback from folks like slangasek sorry I couldn't attend the whole session, but glad my feedback was helpful [17:14] any other thoughts on uds? flacoste: we missed you and illuminati :) [TOPIC] top bugs [17:15] New Topic: top bugs the session identified some focii for the various teams, but didn't really get them all assigned, do we need to work on that? whoops, sorry 'evening [17:16] jelmer: hi! hi jelmer barry: i should be at the next one :-) james_w: we do, but i think poolie's got the list so i think we have to wait for him flacoste: \o/ here's the pre-uds list. i guess next time we can consolidate them with the list from the session: [17:17] * bzr branches are too expensive to use for casual sponsoring, compared with downloading packages from my local mirror (slangasek) * [[https://launchpad.net/bugs/295274|(watch file support)]] - james_w and barry to sprint on that at uds-n * [[https://launchpad.net/bugs/653307|Import fails with missing referenced chk root keys]] * [[https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/bzr/+bug/603395|bzr commit in a heavyweight checkout does not propagate new tags]] * changelog merge problem (probably caused by dpkg-mergechangelogs). need more investigation by barry Launchpad bug 295274 in bzr-builddeb "merge-upstream shouldn't require --version when debian/watch is present" [High,Triaged] Launchpad bug 653307 in Ubuntu Distributed Development "Import fails with missing referenced chk root keys" [Critical,In progress] Launchpad bug 603395 in Bazaar "bzr commit in a heavyweight checkout does not propagate new tags" [High,In progress] james_w: and i looked at the watch file bug and i made notes. hopefully i can understand them now that uds is over and make some progress on the bug [17:18] james_w: any status change on bug #653832? 696 failed imports :/ Launchpad bug 653832 in Ubuntu Distributed Development "Import fails with "trying to import version ... again"" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/653832 For the watchfile thing: probably best to check for debian/rules get-orig-source: before trusting it slangasek, yes, at least in the gourmet case, did it ever get retried? [17:19] james_w: it was retried before you commented that the bug was "harder than you thought" persia: right not retried after that, is that the next step? slangasek, ok, I'll retry now ok, thanks slangasek, it may well stamp on your revisions in that branch though :-( fwiw, gourmet is far from the only interesting package in that list [17:20] indeed ah, well, I guess I'll cope :) any other feedback on top bugs? spiv seemed to have a good handle on the corruption in bug 653307, but not exactly how it came about [17:22] Launchpad bug 653307 in Ubuntu Distributed Development "Import fails with missing referenced chk root keys" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/653307 excellent he said that the easiest fix might be to re-import all of those branches [17:23] barry: I'd like to see someone tackle Bug #499684 sooner rather than later as the more users there are, the harder it will be to change to something better. [17:24] Launchpad bug 499684 in bzr-builddeb "Interface to dpkg-buildpackage inconsistent and not well documented" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/499684 ScottK: yeah, we talked about that at uds. the -- is really ugly :/ [17:25] Yep ScottK: i'll put that on the top bugs list [17:26] james_w: do you know whether it's easily possible to support not explicitly declared options in a bzr subcommand? jelmer, I do not. It's probably not that much work to add I got bored of trying to add them explicitly, mainly because trying to explain the meaning of things like -su vs. -sa is really hard james_w: where is -su documented? i don't see it in dpkg-genchanges [17:29] (manpage) sorry, I mean -si * barry nods moving on... [17:30] [TOPIC] * USA leaves DST New Topic: * USA leaves DST plus I think they are interface warts, so I'm not pleased about inheriting them it would be best if users didn't need to worry about them at all, but i don't know if that's possible [17:31] indeed i mention the dst thing because the meeting will be an hour earlier local time for me. it's still fine, but i wanted to give folks a chance to chime in if the current 2100 utc meeting time has become inconvenient for them it still works for me fine for me [17:32] and this time is better for our antipodean friends cool. no change necessary then [TOPIC] * Pushing changes to Debian (python-cheetah use case) [17:33] New Topic: * Pushing changes to Debian (python-cheetah use case) i bring this up because it's something i'm thinking about now and it's a use case we should address but we don't need to solve it here basically: i fixed python-cheetah in the ubuntu source branch but we really should get the changes into debian. i don't know that udd has a good story for that yet [17:34] something like submittodebian? james_w: something like that, yeah. there is bug reporting via email involved reportbug on ubuntu does not make debian developers happy [17:35] shouldn't be too hard to generate the diff emailing is perhaps a trickier fish, though perhaps we just modify and rely on submittodebian you mean we can't just push to lp:debian/$package and have Debian build from branch? slangasek: :-D [17:36] james_w: oh. submittodebian(1) \o/ heh james_w: looks very interesting, and i'll give that a try with python-cheetah [17:37] a "bzr submittodebian" that takes into account common ancestors etc might be nice Might be nice to have three stories: 1) pushing a change to the BTS, 2) committing a change to Vcs-*, 3) push to lp:debian/foo and upload package would pushing to lp:debian/foo get clobbered when the change lands in debian and gets imported back into launchpad? [17:38] Wouldn't that have the same handling as when folk push to lp:ubuntu/foo and then upload now? jelmer: I did hack submittodebian a while back to notice when it was on a bzr branch and attempt to DTRT could stand to be improved some, yes [17:39] slangasek: ah, that's probably even nicer than adding yet another (sub)command. otoh having it as a subcommand makes it more discoverable perhaps [17:40] persia: supporting push to lp:debian/foo would require us to have a Debian build environment on Launchpad persia: support push to lp:debian/foo and build, that is [17:41] well, in some sense push as well right now ACL are tied to upload rights [17:42] unfortunately I have to leave now, sorry [17:43] thanks everyone Thanks James * slangasek waves that was very helpful, thanks. i'll add my experience to the wiki and file a bug for a new feature thanks james_w we're basically done anyway [17:44] [TOPIC] AOB New Topic: AOB do you have anything else not on the agenda? jelmer, I meant the build to be done on the local machine where the developer has the necessary key to upload to Debian: I doubt any DDs would trust those to LP. persia: Ah, ok persia: Yeah, I wouldn't trust them to /any/ remote machine. For some definition of remote. I know several who don't trust them to laptops, and use debsign -r against trusted machines that may not be local (but are housed in a trusted environment) [17:46] (or debrsign, depending) [17:47] anything else for today? #endmeeting [17:48] }}}