2005-12-07

Revision 2 as of 2008-08-06 16:27:07

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01:01 janeW       roll call
=== jelkner [n=jelkner@158.59.194.112] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
01:01 kjcole      kjcole is sleepy... er.. is Kevin Cole
=== ogra is OliverGrawert
=== kjcole is definitely sleepy.... er... Kevin Cole
01:02 janeW       just the 3 of us?
01:02 jelkner     jelkner is Jeffrey Elkner
01:02 janeW       hi jelkner
01:02 jelkner     hi jane!
01:02 kjcole      morning, jeff.
01:03 jelkner     good morning kevin
01:03 jelkner     while we wait for other folks, can we do a quick update on documentation?
01:04 kjcole      I'm game.
01:04 ogra        we should probably wait for highvoltage and jsgotango for that
01:04 janeW       let's start with ogra's update now, so we don't run out of time...
01:04 ogra        since they are involved with docs
01:04 janeW       they can catch up from the notes...
01:04 jelkner     ogra: only problem is, i will need to leave by 7:30 pm
01:05 janeW       jelkner: ok you are straight after ogra. ok?
01:05 jelkner     last week i missed a bunch of import stuff (including local devices)
01:05 jelkner     ok
01:05 kjcole      FYI: SInce this falls before my morning commute, and Accessibility Team falls after
                  it, I'm going to blow out of here in 55 minutes...
01:05 janeW       kjcole: ok understood
01:05 ogra        ok,
01:05 janeW       let's go them, waiting for late ppl just encourages them to be late
=== flint [n=flint@69-164-120-179.sbtnvt.adelphia.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
                  the CD build looks very good, we should have all 3 arches ready today, i386 hd three
01:06 ogra        uninstallable packages tonight rthat should be gone by now, for the other arches the
                  install CD should be fine already
01:06 flint       morning ollie
01:07 ogra        liveCD builds will start immediately after i have someone building the filesystem for
                  me ...(i.e. directly after the ubuntu livefs was built)
=== spacey [n=spacey@flits101-191.flits.rug.nl] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
01:07 ogra        (thats done by lamont/infinity)
01:08 janeW       great
01:08 janeW       ogra: much better than we were last time :)
01:08 ogra        i had a workshop and talk last weekend at the essener linuxtage, which resulted in
                  several people who want to join development now :)
01:08 janeW       EXCELLENT
01:08 janeW       ogra: do you think they will?
=== linbetwin [n=ricaradu@85.186.214.190] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
01:08 ogra        i.e. i have one guy who wants to take over ltsp-manager from me ;)
01:08 janeW       :)
01:09 ogra        the other ones are not this concrete ...
01:09 janeW       ogra: I see you got the thinclient-memory-usage spec to Approved.
01:09 ogra        spacey, worked with willow the last days ...
01:09 janeW       and faster-startup to Pending Reivew
01:09 ogra        thats next on my list ;)
01:09 janeW       so getting there
01:10 ogra        the specs are reviewed, and i have a list of changes from mdz to put into the two
                  missing ones ....
01:10 ogra        after i made these changes they should get approved straight
=== jelkner is waiting with anticipation to hear about local devices...
01:10 ogra        the local device spec is still in drafting and will wait for a meeting between mdz,
                  sbalneaves and me
=== crimsun [i=crimsun@pdpc/supporter/silver/crimsun] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
01:11 ogra        to decide what we do and what is feasable with it
01:11 ogra        its the one that requires most manpower (not only mine) and the one that had lowest
                  prio from the beginning
01:12 janeW       ogra: are you setting up that meeting or must I?
01:12 jelkner     why lowest prio?
01:12 ogra        janeW, i can ...
01:12 jelkner     i would argue that without it, we really don't have edubuntu
01:12 ogra        jelkner, i dont make the prioritisation
01:12 janeW       ogra: please do if you can
01:12 janeW       I am drowning in LP, plans and spreadsheets
01:12 kjcole      who sets the priorities and how?  I would think it might be us...
01:12 flint       local devices seem very "dapper".  is is  a  personpower issue or an approach isssue?
01:12 ogra        jelkner, you said we dont have edubuntu without content filtering
01:13 janeW       kjcole: us and mdz mainly
01:13 jelkner     ogra: yes, but that was until you gave me a different solution for that
01:13 ogra        jelkner, which is rather achieveable now ...
01:13 flint       ogra, actually that was my flawed vision about the content filtering...
01:13 jelkner     great!
01:13 ogra        since spacey took the task
01:13 jelkner     i'm only reporting back feedback from the users
01:13 janeW       local devices are important
01:14 jelkner     everyone keeps asking "how can students save their work?"
01:14 jelkner     i don't know what to tell them yet
01:14 janeW       ogra: any more progress for the week?
01:14 ogra        sure, but still, the spec is low/mid prio and not ready yet
01:14 jelkner     janeW: how do priorities get set?
01:14 ogra        we have some odd Xorg bugs currently so ltsp is broken, i had not enough tim yet due
                  to my normal distro work ... i hope to have that fixed until next meeting
01:15 jelkner     is there a way to appeal a priority?
=== spacey pong
01:15 ogra        jelkner, thats a mdz/sabdfl thing
01:15 janeW       jelkner: mail me and I'll process it
=== zakame [n=zak@ubuntu/member/zakame] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
01:15 jelkner     will do
01:16 flint       ogra, ollie, what can we do to help get local devices?  Are priorities disclosed on a
                  wikki somewhere?
01:16 janeW       jelkner: I can raise the priority, but that won;t necessarily change the expectation
                  of delivery, esp if there is a technical blocker
01:16 jelkner     understood
01:16 janeW       flint: it;s all on launchpad
01:16 janeW       jelkner: but I will support getting this done, because it is clearly needed
                  http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/edubuntu/dapper-20051205-1.png shows the latest
01:16 ogra        bootchart, mdz has the opinion we can cut down some (10?) seconds from X detection and
                  Keybuk told me the over all speed might be cut down by 15sec so we're getting there
01:16 janeW       https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/dapper/+specstable
01:17 flint       JaneW, actually it is all on my computer, thanks for the specifics ollie!
01:17 ogra        flint, learn dbus programming :P
01:17 janeW       flint: there's no dreaded wiki table this time
01:17 ogra        thats one of the blockers, i'm not into dbus enough that i'd trust my skills to do it
                  alone ...
01:18 ogra        but since most of the other specs are done alread i'll have lots of time to
                  concentrate on the device suff ...
01:18 janeW       flint: ogra and I are somewhat constrained by mdz's call wrt priority etc
01:19 ogra        but i dont give promises for specs that arent even running as a proof of concept
                  locally for me, please understand that
01:19 flint       yeah verily, we require a Jedi, and they are in short supply...
01:19 janeW       bring em on
01:19 jelkner     i have to leave in 10 minutes, any chance we can sneek in a quick documentation
                  report?
01:19 janeW       yes jelkner go ahead
01:20 ogra        goby is still waiting for a review from pitti, so we most likely wont see it on the
                  flight2 CD
01:20 jelkner     kjcole and i have been meeting each weekend to work on the cookbook
01:20 ogra        ok, i'm done
01:20 jelkner     here is where we are:
01:20 flint       jelkner, you are SUCH a whiner...go ahead :^)
01:20 jelkner     1. we've taken the original source and convereted it to plain text
01:21 jelkner     2. we have edited the first 2 chapters, removing tuxlab specific stuff
01:21 janeW       jelkner/ kjcole - sounds good :)
01:21 jelkner     3. we are planning to use lore to mark it up so we can have quick, web ready copy
=== juliux_ [n=julius@irz727.inf.tu-dresden.de] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
01:21 janeW       jelkner: is it quite a chore?
01:21 jelkner     4. we will finish removing tuxlab specific stuff the next few weeks
01:22 juliux_     hi all
01:22 kjcole      1.5 We've broken it into several separate files, basically along chapter lines.
01:22 jelkner     5. then we will begin adding edubuntu specific information
01:22 jelkner     so it is a build down and then build up process
01:22 jelkner     one thing to keep in mind that effects artwork
01:22 zakame      jedi!
01:22 janeW       jelkner: sounds very logical and sequential
                  jelkner, i aksed kjcole yesterday already, i'd like to have regular reviews of the
01:22 ogra        tech stuff in there, the tuxlabs technical side is quite different from our
                  implementation ...
01:23 jelkner     if we want the book out by dapper release
=== mhz [n=mhz_chil@pc-252-84-215-201.cm.vtr.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
=== mhz is here
01:23 jelkner     it would be very helpful if we could have the artwork at least a few weeks early
01:23 janeW       hi mhz: congrats re CC membership
01:23 jelkner     so we can include screen shots with the correct artwork
01:23 ogra        jelkner, we have an artwork deadline in the release schedule
01:23 janeW       jelkner: you need new artwork?
01:23 jelkner     thats all i have
01:23 ogra        thats some weeks before the doc deadline afaikl
01:23 mhz         thanx janeW
01:23 kjcole      ogra, the tuxLab cookbook made me curious about "wizzy" (which I assume is one of
                  those differences)
01:24 jelkner     no, i mean whatever artwork dapper will have
01:24 ogra        jelkner, yes
01:24 ogra        thats what i talked about
01:24 janeW       jelkner: ok fair enough, screenshots would make sense, do you need to change or add to
                  the illustrations too?
01:24 jelkner     great
01:24 jelkner     add to
01:24 ogra        there are two weeks between artwork and doc deadline for exactly this purpose
01:24 jelkner     mostly screenshots
01:24 jelkner     excellent
01:24 janeW       wiki.ubuntu.com/DapperReleaseSchedule <- for dates
01:25 jelkner     ok, i'm finished
=== bmonty [n=bmontgom@wsip-68-15-230-31.om.om.cox.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
01:25 janeW       jelkner: excellnt, I am very please to hear there's been progress with this :))
=== Hirion [n=hirion@draugr.de] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
01:25 kjcole      I've contacted both the original (?) author and illustrator, and buttered them up, but
                  haven't asked for anything.
01:25 janeW       thanks 2 you both for taking you w/e for this .
01:25 janeW       kjcole: have they responded and been friendly?
01:25 kjcole      I get the impression they'd be willing, provided there's time.
01:25 janeW       kjcole: awesome
01:26 kjcole      janeW: Both replied very positively.
01:26 janeW       :)
01:26 flint       jelkner, I recall that the original tuxlab docs had a lot in them about physical
                  infastructure, how are you handling this in transition to dapper ubuntu
01:26 ogra        flint, we should keep it ...
01:26 janeW       agreed
01:26 jelkner     we will keep it
01:26 kjcole      Also, as I said in e-mail a bit premature, but just something to keep in the back of
                  heads: When/If hardcopy publishing, perhaps Lulu Press...
01:26 jelkner     but edubuntu will be more specific
01:26 janeW       we should also have hardware specs in there, we get asked about that alot
01:26 ogra        the physical stuff will be the ame everywhere
01:26 mhz         janeW: I am running to a meeting (2 actually) I am sorry I am not here today. However,
                  I have just sent an email to the ML where I report on everything I have been upto.
01:27 jelkner     to the distro
01:27 jelkner     tuxlab is a project, not a distro
01:27 ogra        janeW, they should be on the website
01:27 janeW       mhz: great, thanks
01:27 jelkner     so it was more general
01:27 janeW       yes, understood
01:28 jelkner     ok, folks, i need to run...
01:28 janeW       ok any more of the documentation?
01:28 jelkner     same time next week
01:28 ogra        yup
01:28 janeW       thanks jelkner , have a good day
01:28 jelkner     bye
01:28 flint       later jeff...thanks.
01:28 ogra        bye
01:28 janeW       ogra: I presume other docs like about edubuntu etc will come later in the cycle, it;s
                  still a bit early for that now
01:28 ogra        yup
01:29 janeW       howevere I see ubuntu has a release note page up, to gather stuff as it happens,
                  should we do the same?
01:29 ogra        mdz has put up a dapper release notes page, we should probably do that too now
01:29 ogra        heh
01:29 janeW       ok, I'll do that
01:29 janeW       ok artwork?
                  We're meeting once a week, and lore's pretty simple as markup.  One thing is it
01:29 kjcole      doesn't (yet) produce an index, though I understand that's in progress too.  That's it
                  from me and documentation.
01:29 janeW       is there any one here to talk about that?
01:30 ogra        mhz is gone ....
01:30 ogra        any news from the canonical side ?
=== janeW hasn't heard of lore, but if it works for you and saves in a usable format I am happy
=== mhz still here ogra :)
01:30 ogra        for the professional stuff ?
01:30 janeW       ogra: no nothing yet. silbs is still not back in the office, so I don;t expect
                  anything till she is back and settled
01:30 flint       lore is best found with the search term python-lore...
01:31 kjcole      lore is the Twisted Python's built-in documentation stuff for their docs, converts to
                  HTML, LaTeX, and a couple of others I think.
01:31 ogra        i'd still like to know if we get pro artwork for all three age stages we'll have
01:31 janeW       has anyone responded to the recent mailing list messages offering help?
01:31 flint       the neat thing about lore is that it is default installed in the badger by default :^)
01:32 janeW       I know mhz is doing great things in the spanish speaking commmunities, but we need to
                  harness the english speaking offers of help too
01:32 kjcole      toxictoadz has been approved as a member of the Edubuntu Cookbook Cooks, but I haven't
                  written back yet.
01:32 mhz         janeW: harness, how do you see it?
01:32 janeW       ogra: re art, I'll try to get an answer on that soon... by the way do you agree that
                  the 3 designs should be 1) Junior, 2) senior 3) Plain ?
01:33 ogra        yes
01:33 kjcole      (and mhz... well, he's already here, isn't he. ;-)  He's also a cook.)
01:33 flint       janeW, is there leather involved :^)
=== mhz is not giving opinions today or he'll get motivated to stick around :D
01:34 janeW       glad there are so many cooks... dont spoil the book :P
01:34 kjcole      janeW, (I think the e-mail you were referring to was from toxictoadz)
01:34 ogra        and beware the salt :)
01:34 flint       janeW, I mean about the harnessing...can you point to a page about the levels Jane?
01:35 ogra        flint, its on the meeting records
01:35 ogra        the part from ubz
01:35 mhz         flint: thx for harnessing question.. I hadn't got that either
01:35 mhz         oops
01:35 janeW       flint: levels?
01:36 ogra        hmm, it actually isnt ...
01:36 flint       janeW, I mean designs
01:36 janeW       I was talking about toxictoad and Babak Manssouri  and any others that come along
01:37 janeW       flint: sorry I am not understanding you today
01:37 kjcole      toxictoadz looks to be more of a translation and artwork person
01:37 ogra        flint, the artwork package will be configurable to select between 3 age levels ...
01:37 ogra        there is no further magic involved :)
01:37 janeW       by harness I meant if someone offers help, grab them and suck them dry....
01:37 janeW       (joking) but make the most of it...
01:37 flint       janeW, the 3 designs should be 1) Junior, 2) senior 3) Plain these are the levels...
01:37 ogra        flint, since we'll get a professional designer i cant say much more
01:38 janeW       flint: Ahhh I understand the levels now...
01:38 flint       janeW, is levels an appropriate term?
01:38 janeW       flint: it's not much more that that for now, so we are starting with a clean slate...
                  what we have now (apart from wallpaper) is liked for junior
01:38 janeW       flint: looks?
01:39 flint       janeW, it's ok nobody understands me (SIGH!:^)
=== ulinskie [n=yolynne@202.57.88.34] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
                  janeW, I must have missed Babak Manssouri.  I haven't paid as much attention to the
01:39 kjcole      artwork e-mails.  Do you recall if he (I'm assuming "he") was artwork or text or
                  unspecified?
01:39 ogra        the mid ager will require a icon set decision ...
01:40 janeW       has anything happned with the a11y stuff?
01:40 flint       ogra, ollie will this require a choice screen in the installer?
01:40 flint       janeW, what ally?
01:40 ogra        janeW, they are working on a liveCD for massachusets afaik
01:40 janeW       ogra: ok
01:40 ogra        flint, yes
01:40 Kamion      flint: I certainly hope not
01:41 Kamion      ogra: please discuss that with me, that's very suboptimal
01:41 ogra        it needs to
01:41 janeW       flint a11y = accessability (apparently)
01:41 kjcole      flint, ally = accessibility
01:41 Kamion      (later)
01:41 ogra        yup
01:41 flint       janeW, Ally = my wife.
01:41 janeW       ogra: are we doing edubuntu express at all?
01:41 ogra        flint, thats an 11 not ll
01:41 kjcole      flint, is she accessible?  ;-)
01:41 janeW       flint: so is she accessible?
01:41 janeW       *duck*
01:42 ogra        janeW, it will be on the liveCD, so yes ....
01:42 flint       you all are bad people...
01:42 kjcole      janeW, great minds...
01:42 janeW       kjcole: *high five*
01:42 ogra        janeW, but that will install only the workstation version
01:42 janeW       ogra: oic, ok makes sense
01:42 janeW       btw did you all see you slachdot mention?
01:42 ogra        janeW, i dont plan a specific edubuntu version
01:42 janeW       ogra: and someone NEEDS to mention LTSP there
01:43 janeW       s/c/s
=== ogra doesnt write on /.
01:43 kjcole      Nice! And that guy Greg Philips? who did the nice review in his blog...
01:43 janeW       yes :)
01:43 flint       ogra, ollie what the heck is up in Massachusetts?
01:43 janeW       ok we are chatting again - which is fine as long as someone isn't waiting to talk
                  about something important...
01:44 ogra        flint, they are in the decision process to switch theor municipalities ...
01:44 ogra        to linux
01:44 flint       janew, I think the slashdot piece repudiated your graphic choices...
01:44 ogra        or some other stuff ...
01:45 flint       ogra, I am in the next state over.  let me know who/how I can get involved please.
01:45 kjcole      Since we're just chatting, any thoughts/post-Dapper+x fantasies regarding publication
                  or is that a Doc Team question?
01:45 ogra        flint, no idea .... i only know that they wahted to look at ubuntu but require full
                  a11y support
01:46 kjcole      Also, not sure of the appropriate meeting: I've been in touch with a friend who
01:46 ogra        so the a11y team tries to provide a liveCD to test ...
01:46 ogra        flint, you might want to contact TheMuso or dholbach about it
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01:46 flint       kjcole, publish or perish eh?  I see the connection know between ally and
                  dapper.  Thanks ollie for the contact names.
01:47 janeW       flint: I didn't get that... but I was hearing pl saying it's nothing but a different
                  desktop, completey missing the LTSP component
=== march [n=marc@dslb-084-062-013-148.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
01:47 march       hi@all
01:47 janeW       kjcole: for the cookbook you mean?
                  is blind and was a professional Braille proofreader for the Library of Congress.  He's
01:47 kjcole      peripherally helping with both a11y and helping me make connections with LoC to get a
                  cookbook officially part of their collection...
01:47 ogra        janeW, i saw people mentioning the LTSP
01:48 kjcole      janeW: The cookbook in particular, but other stuff as well possibly.
01:48 janeW       kjcole: if we make it rock we can may be convince the sabd to publish it
                  janeW, the Slashdot review really played up the angle of a distro for geek
01:49 flint       children.  This is hitting the nail on the head (or in this case geekletts ont he head
                  :^)
01:49 kjcole      janeW: Ah.  Well, then that *potentially* simplifies things.
01:50 janeW       flint: agreed
=== mhz has wikied the mail sent for better use
http://wiki.edubuntu.org/MauricioHernandez/WeeklyUpdates/2005Dec7
01:50 flint       kjcole, jez kevin, if you write a good book, somone will publish the silly
                  thing.  Keep your shirt on and write!
01:50 mhz         ok, sorry you all, gotta run!
01:50 mhz         bye
01:50 flint       mdz, thanks!
01:51 dholbach    flint: i guess that dcc didn't work through my router/firewall-thingie
01:51 flint       janeW, ok enough stroking jane, what's next on your dreaded agenda?
=== janeW must get these notes up, and get back to dapper status updates, in prep for ***4AM*** meeting
tomorrow am
01:52 flint       dholbach, what dcc thing my man?
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01:52 dholbach    flint: you made a dcc chat request?
01:52 Kamion      janeW: 2am surely ...
01:52 ogra        flint, artwork is always last :)
01:52 janeW       the ones that moaned about not enough time are not even here this week, and so we have
                  extra time.
01:52 janeW       Kamion: 4am for me (UTC +2)
01:52 Kamion      oh, didn't realise .za was so far ahead
01:52 janeW       Kamion: yup
01:53 ogra        just for the record, we have a popular contributor to edubuntu, linus sent a little
                  app :)
01:53 janeW       Kamion: you wanna add anything esle to edubuntu?
01:53 Kamion      nope
01:53 janeW       ogra: oh yes!
01:53 janeW       ogra: he hasn't responded to me yet...
01:53 ogra        its a cool thingie but has an awful gui :)
01:53 Kamion      only comment really is that adding installer questions is non-trivially awkward, and
                  with the live installer you have to design two UIs
01:53 Kamion      I'd really very strongly recommend making it easily switchable after install instead
01:53 Kamion      (you have to do that anyway)
01:54 janeW       Kamion: ITA
01:54 Kamion      the ltsp hack for edubuntu breezy nearly managed to break ubuntu netboot
01:54 ogra        Kamion, yes, we can decide on a defaulut ...
01:54 Kamion      and only didn't by dumb luck
01:54 janeW       ogra: do you agree, we should have a default and then make it switchable after
                  install?
01:54 Kamion      janeW: ITA?
01:54 ogra        janeW, see above :)
01:54 janeW       I Tend to Agree
01:54 flint       dholbach, sorry I am a nubie re dcc...
01:54 Kamion      ah, ok
01:55 dholbach    flint: don't worry :)
01:55 kjcole      ogra, thingie? More specific?
01:55 ogra        Kamion, and i'm not sure if we want to keep the ltsp hack.... it doesnt make sense for
                  multiarch ltsp
01:55 janeW       flint: and with me you are either stroked or whipped - take your pick :P
01:56 ogra        kjcole, it logs out a given user afer a certain amount of time ...
01:56 ogra        and shows a timer ....
01:56 ogra        (the time is written in tcl and looks awful, the tool iself is very cool)
01:56 ogra        *timer
01:57 Kamion      ogra: I can see more justification for ltsp-client-builder
01:57 flint       Kamion, you are not refering to the "lotr" patch when you talk of an ltsp hack are
                  you?
01:57 Kamion      flint: no
=== zakame_ [n=zak@ubuntu/member/zakame] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
01:57 ogra        Kamion, i'd rather have http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/LTSPManager/ for post install
                  action
01:57 flint       Kamion, gotcha.
01:58 ogra        so you can select the target arch for the clients
                  it's just technically difficult at the moment to have different installer flow for
01:58 Kamion      different flavours (ubuntu/kubuntu/edubuntu), for pretty much the same reason as we
                  can't have different base systems for different flavours; a lot of it's done by
                  priority in the archive and we don't have per-flavour priorities
01:58 Kamion      flint: referring to the thing in the Edubuntu installer that builds an LTSP client
                  chroot during install
01:58 ogra        Kamion, but thats neither speced nor do i put time into it currently, its only a base
                  for community contributions
01:58 flint       Kamion, i am on the page thanks
01:59 Kamion      ogra: integrating that into the live installer would be sane I think, but probably
                  dapper+1
01:59 ogra        yes
01:59 ogra        thats what its planned for
01:59 ogra        (dapper+1)
02:00 kjcole      Tick-tock... Time for me to run to work so I can make the A11y Team
                  meeting.  (Someday, maybe I'll do work for my office again too...)
02:00 ogra        i did only the glade stuff and the worst backend part (dhcp...) te rest is for
                  community contribution and has a non predictable deadline
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02:01 ogra        janeW, meeting done ?
=== pirast [n=pirast@p508B2B82.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has left #ubuntu-meeting ["Leaving"]
02:02 janeW       yup thanks guys
02:02 ogra        thanks janeW :)
02:02 janeW       everyone OUT ;P