This is a log or summary of an Edubuntu Meeting. Please go to the Meeting Page for more information about our meetings.
Meeting January 18, 2006
01:06 kjcole janew, ping? 01:10 kjcole jelkner, you're gone... 01:13 JaneW ack!!! 01:13 JaneW hello === flint [email@example.com] has joined #ubuntu-meeting 01:14 JaneW meeting totally slipped my mind! 01:14 JaneW where has the week gone? 01:14 JaneW and where is my reminder? 01:14 flint ...coffee...must get coffee... 01:14 kjcole hiya 01:15 JaneW who is here 01:15 JaneW hi flint 01:15 flint good morning campers! hi jane and kevin! === ealden [firstname.lastname@example.org] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === JaneW 's kids started Grade 1 today - threw me for a loop 01:16 JaneW kjcole & jelkner as promised we can start with doc news today 01:17 flint Congradulationis Jane how many in grade 1? 2? 01:17 JaneW s/s 01:17 JaneW make that ONE KID === JaneW goes back to grade one to learn maths ;) JaneW, I just got off the phone with Jeff. He usually 01:18 kjcole has to cut out early from these meetings and because we're starting late, he's left it in my clumsy hands. Oops. I dropped it. 01:18 flint I will rat them out. they have been hauling compuers all weekend and have made no progress. :^) 01:18 JaneW kjcole: so you want to shoot, or defer? 01:18 JaneW is ogra here? 01:18 kjcole Defer. 01:18 ogra JanC, yup 01:18 JaneW kjcole: :P 01:18 JaneW hi ogra 01:19 JaneW ok the doc team aren't talking, so you are up 01:19 ogra still fighting with the flight 3 announcement 01:19 flint damn...they actually have made a whole lot of progress! 01:19 JaneW cool 01:19 ogra we have flight 3 01:19 JaneW is flight 3 done? (Long and short of it is we didn't meet last weekend for 01:19 kjcole books, as we were meeting to gather and redistribute lots of computers.) 01:19 JaneW do you need help with the announcement? 01:19 JaneW I can help 01:19 ogra yes, since two days, i'm really late with the announcement 01:19 JaneW kjcole: ok thanks, you still on track though? 01:19 JaneW ogra: what needs to be done? 01:19 ogra (you know we have UVF tomorrow ;) ) 01:20 kjcole janew, I believe so. 01:20 JaneW ogra: congrats on meeting another milestone :)) 01:20 ogra :) 01:20 JaneW ogra: yes so it would be good to get the announcement out today still 01:20 flint ollie, i read about the flights etc... is this more than just another build or what? 01:20 ogra JaneW, yup... lets do it after the meeting 01:21 JaneW btw Thin Client Local devices is now officially deferred for Dapper 01:21 ogra flint, yes 01:21 JaneW ogra: ok 01:21 ogra flight CDs are tested for basic installability 01:21 flint gotcha, I should download and test at f3? 01:21 ogra drawbacks and known bugs in flight Cds are noted in the install notes 01:22 ogra so you shouldnt get bad surprises if you try them 01:22 ogra ok 01:22 jelkner ogra: how does the flight concept align with alpha and beta? 01:22 flint definately congradulations are in order ollie === Hirion [email@example.com] has joined #ubuntu-meeting 01:22 ogra i have mostly done ubuntu work to prepare for UVF this week apart form the flight CDs 01:22 jelkner great work, olllie! 01:23 ogra so i have not much to tell this week local devices are officially deferred, but i'm just 01:23 ogra working on the latest ltspfs and ltspfsd packages, so we have the base for it in universe 01:24 jelkner great it should be no problem to follow the ltsp.org docs to 01:24 ogra set local device support up in a classic way with the packages from universe+ 01:24 flint ollie, I know that this is a pain, but can you paste in the url for the f3 iso? 01:24 ogra http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/releases/dapper/ 01:24 flint thanks 01:25 ogra this flight Cd has sound support ... :) 01:25 ogra (for thin clients that is) 01:25 flint I intend to give this a try... 01:25 ogra i'm currently discussing the advantage of switching from bash to a smaller shell with mdz 01:25 ogra that might get us near the 32MB ... 01:25 ogra (for clients) 01:26 flint cutting ram usage in half? 01:26 ogra nah 01:26 ogra we are at 48MB 01:26 ogra and it gets hard to get lower now ... 01:26 JaneW hi jelkner 01:26 ogra the kernel and initramfs already take more than 32MB 01:27 jelkner JaneW: hi jane! 01:27 flint how much ram would be saved? 01:27 JaneW jelkner: flights are pre alpha and beta, we'll actually have a beta-proper before this release i have a initramfs patch pending that supresses all 01:27 ogra harrdisk mosules that might get us less than 32MB for kernel and intramfs ... 01:27 ogra for the shell change i cant predict any values yet 01:27 JaneW jelkner: which is a first for us 01:28 flint good morning jeff! you and kevin should talk about docs and the secondary processor market... 01:28 ogra my main concern with the shell stuff was speed, using less ram is a sideeffect === Yagisan is sorry he is late 01:29 Kamion jelkner: I'd say flight =~ alpha the idea is that the flights (or collective noun for 01:29 JaneW release creature) are milestones withint the dev cycle to weed out issues and check-point progress 01:29 ogra in other news i now own 5 thin clients 01:29 ogra so testing ius easier .... 01:29 JaneW like a dev->test->dev->test cycle 01:29 flint interesting, something like say "ash" woudl improve speed over say "icewm"? 01:29 Kamion JaneW: yeah, alpha's a reasonably conventional term to use to describe the milestone points in such a process 01:29 ogra jelkner, yes, beta is the release candidate (which we actually call beta release this time iirc) 01:30 Kamion no, we'll be calling the preview release "beta" 01:30 Yagisan ogra: can we have our own -OS compiled kernels to save space ? 01:30 Kamion release candidate is release candidate :) 01:30 ogra ah, yes 01:30 ogra i didnt scroll down :) 01:30 ogra Yagisan, nope 01:30 ogra Yagisan, not officially 01:31 Yagisan ogra: well, it was a nice idea while it lasted elkner, there is actually an entire explanation of this 01:31 flint flight for dapper thing on an ubuntu web site, let me see if i can find it. 01:31 ogra but the initramfs patch that i initially had to do because powerpc couldnt boot will slim down a lot 01:31 JaneW Kamion: thanks 01:31 JaneW jelkner: what Kamion said! 01:31 ogra Yagisan, you wont gain mauch with a customized kernel ... 01:32 ogra Yagisan, the big piece here is the collection of modules ... 01:32 ogra so initramfs has an option to suporess unneeded ones ... 01:32 jelkner Kamion, yes, thanks! 01:33 Yagisan ogra: I was just interested in if the optimise for size option would help Yagisan, it might ... but we wont get separate kernels 01:33 ogra and you wont gain as much with a smaller kernel as you can with a slimmed down initramfs 01:34 jelkner JaneW: same time next week? 01:34 jelkner i've gotta run... 01:34 JaneW jelkner: yes please 01:34 jelkner thanks 01:34 JaneW jelkner: and cookbook update then please 01:34 JaneW if you can 01:34 JaneW ciao 01:35 jelkner yes, and we will have stuff to report 01:35 jelkner can we put that on the agenda for the start of the meeting? 01:35 ogra oh, i'm at a conference this weekend ... its from a project thats sopnsored by the european union ... 01:35 jelkner ciao they want to build their school and usermanagement 01:36 ogra software on top of knoppix and ubuntu it seems (klaus knopper is there as well) 01:36 ogra #seems its fulls paied by the EU 01:36 ogra and has a good backing ... 01:36 flint cool...I am ready to immagrate back to the mother country...I want a sane government! 01:37 ogra heh === bimberi [firstname.lastname@example.org] has joined #ubuntu-meeting 01:37 flint shake klaus' hand for me ollie 01:37 ogra it was initially gpl, then made proprietary, and became gpl again now ... 01:37 ogra will do 01:37 ogra originally developed on and for SuSE btw the site for the flight narrative is 01:38 flint http://www.ubuntulinux.org/support/faq search for word flight. 01:38 ogra but the EU and the people driving this project are *very* intereasted having it run on debian based systems ... 01:38 ogra (mainly edubuntu and knoppix) 01:38 flint where would this be? 01:39 ogra it installs workstations from isos on the fly (even from windows isos) 01:39 ogra looks very intresting 01:39 flint where geographically is the conference? near you? 01:39 ogra thats about 100km southern of my place, near the belkgian border 01:39 ogra trier is near 01:40 JaneW ogra: sounds good 01:40 flint Trier? never been there... 01:40 ogra JaneW, yes, mark was very intrested that i go there 01:40 flint are they in the middle of the moodle schooltool thing yet 01:41 ogra nope they are way bigger 01:41 flint what is the name of what they want for a management software thing? 01:41 ogra its a management system for whole schools and universities 01:41 ogra including user as well as system and software management 01:41 ogra platform independent for the client architecture 01:42 ogra i have no clue ... had no time yet to look at it ... 01:42 ogra we are near UVF and i shouldnt ever chat here to get the last packages in ;) 01:42 kjcole ogra, sounds like an ambitious system. 01:42 flint ogra, this is beginning to sound too good to be true. be tolerant Ollie. 01:43 ogra yes, i'll look up the urls for you and send it to the ML 01:43 flint thanks. Now that I think about it Bush vs Eurocrats...tough call eh Jane? 01:44 ogra pfft bush ... 01:44 flint exactly!!!! 01:44 ogra how long has he left in this period ? 01:44 ogra he'll be gone soon ... 01:45 flint please, he can do a lot more damage 01:45 ogra true ... 01:45 kjcole ogra, say that and we'll bring "freedom and democracy" to your country too! so be afraid. ;-) 01:45 ogra lol 01:45 flint excellent kevin 01:45 flint lol indeed 01:46 ogra hey, we have "neckless angie" .... she'll manage :P === Yagisan mumbles somthing about importing that crap^Wstuff down here 01:46 flint ok we got the flight 3 in our sights. 01:46 JaneW ogra: don't talk about jbailey's wife like that! :P 01:46 flint ouch that is funny about your new pm! 01:47 ogra JaneW, *she* has a neck :) 01:47 JaneW does anyone want to volunteer as minutes atker for these meetings? 01:47 JaneW I don;t mind the job, but I never seem to manage to get it done anymore 01:48 ogra flint, flight 3 is old news already :) 01:48 JaneW and the Ubuntu Dapper Report takes a big chunk of my time currently 01:48 flint i know that, jeff did not. 01:49 ogra flint, yes, because i suck at timely announcements ;) 01:49 flint JaneW, what is involved? 01:49 ogra flint, see the MeetingNotes page on the wiki === cyphase [email@example.com] has joined #ubuntu-meeting 01:50 ogra flint, https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuMeetingRecords 01:50 flint i did not even know there was a meeting notes page! 01:51 flint ogra, thanks 01:51 JaneW flint: liar! 01:51 JaneW flint: sorry I mean Alzheimers! === JaneW hides 01:52 flint do not worry I will likely forget that remark :^) 01:52 ogra lol 01:52 ogra oh, i need artwork still !! 01:52 ogra nearly forgot about that flint: but yes basically taking salient meeting 01:53 JaneW notes/decisions and adding them to: https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuMeetingRecords 01:53 JaneW oh yes === Seveas hands ogra the paint 01:53 ogra the artwork packages currently lets you select the age, but has 3 times the same design :) 01:53 JaneW ogra: list what you need, I'll nag silbs again 01:53 JaneW wallpaper, splash, and gdm theme? 01:53 JaneW ogra: you got icon sets? 01:54 ogra we can keep the young design i think (another wallpaper might be fine) so what i need is mid age and older age 01:54 ogra i wanted to take the default icon theme for the two older flavours as a consultant and the authorized representative of 01:54 flint beazulbub, prince of falsehood, let me look into the notes thing... 01:55 ogra so we'd only need wallpaper and splash screen artwork 01:57 ogra did somebody tell elkner that we are using malone exclusively now ? 01:57 kjcole ogra, nope but it's pretty obvious when one goes to bugzilla... 01:57 ogra oh, damned, i also wanted him to take a look at pida # 01:58 kjcole ogra, pida? 01:58 ogra its a cool python IDE i could imagine for main inclusion 01:58 ogra eh, and i did forget, gobby is in !! ( JaneW ") 01:58 flint pida yaide neat! is it in universe? 01:58 ogra yup+ 01:59 JaneW ogra: oh yay, I noticed your discussion with pitti in the dapper meeting last week 01:59 ogra but it looks like its easy to get to main ... 01:59 JaneW it looked promising 01:59 kjcole ogra, ah. I know he's talked to Stani of SPE fame, and Stani's modified SPE to be more Ubuntu-friendly 01:59 flint the only down side of gobby is that it sorta needs a server for school-to-school 01:59 ogra spe is totally broken 01:59 ogra and UVF is tomorrow 01:59 JaneW ogra: did you look at Quim's reckommeded app Dasher? 01:59 ogra i doubt that will be fixed in time 01:59 JaneW spe? 01:59 ogra its an editior 02:00 JaneW ogra: what are our issues for UVF? 02:00 JaneW ogra: are we asking for any exceptions this time? 02:00 ogra JaneW, yes, dasher is a input tool for handhelds that was adopted by the a11y people 02:00 ogra JaneW, nope JaneW, SPE = Stani's Python Editor which includes a lot 02:00 kjcole of wxpython capability and i gather shows a lot of promise... 02:00 JaneW ogra: does it makes sense for us to look at it for uni and/or Dapper +1? 02:00 ogra ltsp development can go on until feature freeze, we dont need exceptions 02:00 JaneW yay 02:01 JaneW ogar: I am PROUD OF YOU 02:01 ogra kjcole, we wont accept awxpython in main i think 02:01 JaneW and anyone who may have helped you. 02:01 ogra kjcole, so SPE is not an option 02:03 flint I thought that pycard was wx. 02:04 flint na, it is gtk 02:04 ogra pida is also for pygtk and has a direct glade interface for gazpacho ... 02:05 kjcole Naturally, when learning GUI stuff for Python, I went with wx... :-( 02:05 ogra its like idle on steroids with fresh design and it supports embedding of different editors in the IDE 02:07 ogra ... you are not bound to the shipped one but can select emacs or vim ... 02:07 flint never fooled with gazpacho mostly playing with Scite 02:07 ogra that brings me an idea ... 02:07 ogra i'll ask upstream if he likes to include gobby support ;) 02:08 kjcole ogra, now there's a wild and crazy idea. I *LIKE* it! 02:08 flint ogra, ollie, what we need in gobby space is a server that can take gobby sessions and connect htem... 02:09 flint one really cool hack would be to connect them to xchat... 02:09 ogra flint, the current version supports that 02:09 kjcole flint, like a gobby daemon that doesn't have to be started by any individual, but just sits and listens... 02:09 ogra and gobby brings a chat itself ... 02:09 flint supports a connection via xchat? your kidding... 02:09 ogra nope, a dedicated server 02:10 flint kjcole, exactly it is a gobby catcher, the users gobbys are the pitchers... 02:10 kjcole flint, i'm going to dist-upgrade docbox if that's the case. ;-) 02:11 flint ogra, a dedicated server? indeed. kjcole use the development box and have at it. 02:11 ogra i dont know how to set it up, i only know its included 02:11 ogra sobby is the name iirc 02:12 flint ogra, kjcole and I had a time with gobby, i ended up xsessioning into his box to use it. most slow. 02:12 flint ogra, sobby eh? I will look into it. 02:12 ogra but that was 0.2.0 02:12 ogra we have 0.3.0 now 02:13 ogra should have improved a lot 02:13 flint they call it an obby server why leave off the "g"? 02:14 flint anyway, i am gonna get some coffee. I will be on but upstairs with a cup in my hand for a few minutes... 02:15 ogra hmm, btw, why wasnt the edubuntu meeting on the fridge ? 02:15 ogra my evolution pulls the webcal from there and notifies me ... 02:15 ogra JaneW, ?? 02:16 kjcole i gotta run to work, === sivang amazes at the amount of new apps he gets to see here === kjcole gets his coat... 02:17 JaneW ogra: yes I got no reminder either 02:17 sivang ogra: pida is in python I guess? === JaneW will send a mail to the fridge techies 02:17 ogra sivang, yup 02:17 ogra sivang, pygtk 02:17 sivang very cool 02:17 ogra and finally a IDE that embeds vim 02:18 sivang were you talking about which editors to include for python in Edubuntu ? ogra, any idea how to get korganizer to pull the 02:18 kjcole calendar automatically? I end up downloading it an importing it, but would like a better way. === sivang apologies, been busy at work didn't have time to follow the discussions too much. 02:19 ogra kjcole, nope, no idea, in evo you just add the webcal url and it updates automatically 02:19 ogra but i dont touch KDE stuff if i dont need to sivang, its likely to late to include it for dapper, but 02:20 ogra i want the people to test heavily since we will change the software selection in dapper+1 ogra that may be enough info to go on. thanks. (I 02:20 kjcole figured something like that, but wanted to be sure it wasn't too obscure in evolution.) 02:20 sivang ogra: specifically for python editors, or change the whole software selection for Edubuntu ? 02:21 kjcole and i'm outa here. bye! 02:21 ogra in evo you just add a new calendar and tell it to pull the webcal address ... 02:21 sivang bye kjcole 02:21 ogra sohould be similar in KDE 02:21 ogra sivang, we'll see first point i want people to be aware of all the stuff 02:22 ogra thats there and make suggestions on the ML for a new selectin 02:22 ogra after thats done we'll see how much demand is there 02:23 ogra dapper+1 is still some months away 02:23 sivang yes, true 02:29 JaneW 3 months to be exact 02:32 ogra JaneW, mhz is nagging about a new summit ... 02:32 flint ogra, summits can be fun. === JaneW read that as 'swimsuit' 02:33 JaneW mdz: I think we may be able to schedule one after Dapper releases 02:33 JaneW likely not before 02:33 flint JaneW, an excellent thought 02:33 JaneW sabdfl will want to see how we do on this release forst and if we keep the momentum going 02:34 flint well, we have done what we can to keep him entertained, that is for certian. === doko [firstname.lastname@example.org] has joined #ubuntu-meeting 02:35 flint the good news from here is that my test capability is about to start and will with f3. 02:36 flint and for all the posturing about the cookbook, the boys are actually making good progress on docbox one idea that has survived in my altzheimers inflicted 02:37 flint brain is that of matching the style of the cookbook with the graphic style of the product. do you recall that one janeW? 02:38 JaneW flint: yup 02:38 JaneW flint: meaning gartoon theme etc? 02:39 flint well, that said I thought I saw you refering to different graphics for different levels in this meeting. eh? 02:39 flint whatever is in f3 is what i will agitate the cookbook mafia to go with. 02:40 flint what is a gartoon theme? (I'm a doctor jim, not a graphic artist :^) 02:41 flint JaneW, ok I got it it is a gnome theme... 02:42 JaneW flint: after ppl saying edubuntu was too naive looking and aimed at only 6-10 y/o kids we agreed to do 02:42 JaneW 1) Young as per current but with different wall paper 02:42 JaneW 2) Older appealing to 10-15 y/o 02:42 flint yea, that's it. that's the ticket. will this be the same at all levels of system use? 02:43 JaneW 3) Generic plain and simple look, less distracting and resource intensive and possibly for tertiary edu use 02:43 flint JaneW, the question then is can that three level demarcation be continued in the cookbook? 02:43 JaneW how? 02:44 JaneW the cook book is not specific to any of the choices 02:44 JaneW but we should perhaps depict the selections in the cook book 02:44 flint JaneW, like the intro and fundamental stuff is in graphic 1 style and so on... 02:44 JaneW nah I think select one and be consistent 02:45 flint JaneW, kidnap note typography forever! === JaneW has to go, we have just over an hour, and an announcement to get out... 02:45 JaneW ogra: ping ^^^ 02:45 flint JaneW, i will get back to you via mail about notes... later this week. 02:46 JaneW flint: awesome thanks 02:46 flint ogra, you asleep? === Hirion [email@example.com] has left #ubuntu-meeting  the gauledette community of deaf folks sign off with 02:47 flint "stop key stop key" or sksk, I would like to adopt this convention here. 02:47 flint later, sksk === flint [firstname.lastname@example.org] has left #ubuntu-meeting ["Leaving"] 02:49 ogra nope, my line is shaky 02:51 JaneW ogra: * JaneW has to go, we have just over an hour, and an announcement to get out... 02:51 JaneW JaneW ogra: ping ^^^ 02:56 ogra JaneW, a minute please, my line is dropping all the time ... 02:57 ogra JaneW, better now 02:57 JaneW ogra: ok