2006-01-18

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## page was renamed from Edubuntu/WikiSite/Meeting/Logs/2006-01-18

(X) This is a log or summary of an Edubuntu Meeting. Please go to the Meeting Page for more information about our meetings.


Meeting January 18, 2006

   01:06   kjcole   janew, ping?
   01:10   kjcole   jelkner, you're  gone...
   01:13   JaneW    ack!!!
   01:13   JaneW    hello
   === flint [n=flint@69-164-122-221.sbtnvt.adelphia.net] has joined
   #ubuntu-meeting
   01:14   JaneW    meeting totally slipped my mind!
   01:14   JaneW    where has the week gone?
   01:14   JaneW    and where is my reminder?
   01:14   flint    ...coffee...must get coffee...
   01:14   kjcole   hiya
   01:15   JaneW    who is here
   01:15   JaneW    hi flint
   01:15   flint    good morning campers! hi jane and kevin!
   === ealden [n=ealden@219.90.91.233] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
   === JaneW 's kids started Grade 1 today - threw me for a loop
   01:16   JaneW    kjcole & jelkner as promised we can start with doc news
                    today
   01:17   flint    Congradulationis Jane how many in grade 1? 2?
   01:17   JaneW    s/s
   01:17   JaneW    make that ONE KID
   === JaneW goes back to grade one to learn maths ;)
                    JaneW, I just got off the phone with Jeff.  He usually
   01:18   kjcole   has to cut out early from these meetings and because
                    we're starting late, he's left it in my clumsy
                    hands.  Oops. I dropped it.
   01:18   flint    I will rat them out.  they have been hauling compuers all
                    weekend and have made no progress. :^)
   01:18   JaneW    kjcole: so you want to shoot, or defer?
   01:18   JaneW    is ogra here?
   01:18   kjcole   Defer.
   01:18   ogra     JanC, yup
   01:18   JaneW    kjcole: :P
   01:18   JaneW    hi ogra
   01:19   JaneW    ok the doc team aren't talking, so you are up
   01:19   ogra     still fighting with the flight 3 announcement
   01:19   flint    damn...they actually have made a whole lot of progress!
   01:19   JaneW    cool
   01:19   ogra     we have flight 3
   01:19   JaneW    is flight 3 done?
                    (Long and short of it is we didn't meet last weekend for
   01:19   kjcole   books, as we were meeting to gather and redistribute lots
                    of computers.)
   01:19   JaneW    do you need help with the announcement?
   01:19   JaneW    I can help
   01:19   ogra     yes, since two days, i'm really late with the
                    announcement
   01:19   JaneW    kjcole: ok thanks, you still on track though?
   01:19   JaneW    ogra: what needs to be done?
   01:19   ogra     (you know we have UVF tomorrow ;) )
   01:20   kjcole   janew, I believe so.
   01:20   JaneW    ogra: congrats on meeting another milestone :))
   01:20   ogra     :)
   01:20   JaneW    ogra: yes so it would be good to get the announcement out
                    today still
   01:20   flint    ollie, i read about the flights etc... is this more than
                    just another build or what?
   01:20   ogra     JaneW, yup... lets do it after the meeting
   01:21   JaneW    btw Thin Client Local devices is now officially deferred
                    for Dapper
   01:21   ogra     flint, yes
   01:21   JaneW    ogra: ok
   01:21   ogra     flight CDs are tested for basic installability
   01:21   flint    gotcha, I should download and test at f3?
   01:21   ogra     drawbacks and known bugs in flight Cds are noted in the
                    install notes
   01:22   ogra     so you shouldnt get bad surprises if you try them
   01:22   ogra     ok
   01:22   jelkner  ogra: how does the flight concept align with alpha and
                    beta?
   01:22   flint    definately congradulations are in order ollie
   === Hirion [n=hirion@draugr.de] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
   01:22   ogra     i have mostly done ubuntu work to prepare for UVF this
                    week apart form the flight CDs
   01:22   jelkner  great work, olllie!
   01:23   ogra     so i have not much to tell this week
                    local devices are officially deferred, but i'm just
   01:23   ogra     working on the latest ltspfs and ltspfsd packages, so we
                    have the base for it in universe
   01:24   jelkner  great
                    it should be no problem to follow the ltsp.org docs to
   01:24   ogra     set local device support up in a classic way with the
                    packages from universe+
   01:24   flint    ollie, I know that this is a pain, but can you paste in
                    the url for the f3 iso?
   01:24   ogra     http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/releases/dapper/
   01:24   flint    thanks
   01:25   ogra     this flight Cd has sound support ... :)
   01:25   ogra     (for thin clients that is)
   01:25   flint    I intend to give this a try...
   01:25   ogra     i'm currently discussing the advantage of switching from
                    bash to a smaller shell with mdz
   01:25   ogra     that might get us near the 32MB ...
   01:25   ogra     (for clients)
   01:26   flint    cutting ram usage in half?
   01:26   ogra     nah
   01:26   ogra     we are at 48MB
   01:26   ogra     and it gets hard to get lower now ...
   01:26   JaneW    hi jelkner
   01:26   ogra     the kernel and initramfs already take more than 32MB
   01:27   jelkner  JaneW: hi jane!
   01:27   flint    how much ram would be saved?
   01:27   JaneW    jelkner: flights are pre alpha and beta, we'll actually
                    have a beta-proper before this release
                    i have a initramfs patch pending that supresses all
   01:27   ogra     harrdisk mosules that might get us less than 32MB for
                    kernel and intramfs ...
   01:27   ogra     for the shell change i cant predict any values yet
   01:27   JaneW    jelkner: which is a first for us
   01:28   flint    good morning jeff!  you and kevin should talk about docs
                    and the secondary processor market...
   01:28   ogra     my main concern with the shell stuff was speed, using
                    less ram is a sideeffect
   === Yagisan is sorry he is late
   01:29   Kamion   jelkner: I'd say flight =~ alpha
                    the idea is that the flights (or collective noun for
   01:29   JaneW    release creature) are milestones withint the dev cycle to
                    weed out issues and check-point progress
   01:29   ogra     in other news i now own 5 thin clients
   01:29   ogra     so testing ius easier ....
   01:29   JaneW    like a dev->test->dev->test cycle
   01:29   flint    interesting, something like say "ash" woudl improve speed
                    over say "icewm"?
   01:29   Kamion   JaneW: yeah, alpha's a reasonably conventional term to
                    use to describe the milestone points in such a process
   01:29   ogra     jelkner, yes, beta is the release candidate (which we
                    actually call beta release this time iirc)
   01:30   Kamion   no, we'll be calling the preview release "beta"
   01:30   Yagisan  ogra: can we have our own -OS compiled kernels to save
                    space ?
   01:30   Kamion   release candidate is release candidate :)
   01:30   ogra     ah, yes
   01:30   ogra     i didnt scroll down :)
   01:30   ogra     Yagisan, nope
   01:30   ogra     Yagisan, not officially
   01:31   Yagisan  ogra: well, it was a nice idea while it lasted
                    elkner, there is actually an entire explanation of this
   01:31   flint    flight for dapper thing on an ubuntu web site, let me see
                    if i can find it.
   01:31   ogra     but the initramfs patch that i initially had to do
                    because powerpc couldnt boot will slim down a lot
   01:31   JaneW    Kamion: thanks
   01:31   JaneW    jelkner: what Kamion said!
   01:31   ogra     Yagisan, you wont gain mauch with a customized kernel ...
   01:32   ogra     Yagisan, the big piece here is the collection of modules
                    ...
   01:32   ogra     so initramfs has an option to suporess unneeded ones ...
   01:32   jelkner  Kamion, yes, thanks!
   01:33   Yagisan  ogra: I was just interested in if the optimise for size
                    option would help
                    Yagisan, it might ... but we wont get separate kernels
   01:33   ogra     and you wont gain as much with a smaller kernel as you
                    can with a slimmed down initramfs
   01:34   jelkner  JaneW: same time next week?
   01:34   jelkner  i've gotta run...
   01:34   JaneW    jelkner: yes please
   01:34   jelkner  thanks
   01:34   JaneW    jelkner: and cookbook update then please
   01:34   JaneW    if you can
   01:34   JaneW    ciao
   01:35   jelkner  yes, and we will have stuff to report
   01:35   jelkner  can we put that on the agenda for the start of the
                    meeting?
   01:35   ogra     oh, i'm at a conference this weekend ... its from a
                    project thats sopnsored by the european union ...
   01:35   jelkner  ciao
                    they want to build their school and usermanagement
   01:36   ogra     software on top of knoppix and ubuntu it seems (klaus
                    knopper is there as well)
   01:36   ogra     #seems its fulls paied by the EU
   01:36   ogra     and has a good backing ...
   01:36   flint    cool...I am ready to immagrate back to the mother
                    country...I want a sane government!
   01:37   ogra     heh
   === bimberi [n=bimberi@203.129.53.95] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
   01:37   flint    shake klaus' hand for me ollie
   01:37   ogra     it was initially gpl, then made proprietary, and became
                    gpl again now ...
   01:37   ogra     will do
   01:37   ogra     originally developed on and for SuSE
                    btw the site for the flight narrative is
   01:38   flint    http://www.ubuntulinux.org/support/faq search for word
                    flight.
   01:38   ogra     but the EU and the people driving this project are *very*
                    intereasted having it run on debian based systems ...
   01:38   ogra     (mainly edubuntu and knoppix)
   01:38   flint    where would this be?
   01:39   ogra     it installs workstations from isos on the fly (even from
                    windows isos)
   01:39   ogra     looks very intresting
   01:39   flint    where geographically is the conference?  near you?
   01:39   ogra     thats about 100km southern of my place, near the belkgian
                    border
   01:39   ogra     trier is near
   01:40   JaneW    ogra: sounds good
   01:40   flint    Trier?  never been there...
   01:40   ogra     JaneW, yes, mark was very intrested that i go there
   01:40   flint    are they in the middle of the moodle schooltool thing yet
   01:41   ogra     nope they are way bigger
   01:41   flint    what is the name of what they want for a management
                    software thing?
   01:41   ogra     its a management system for whole schools and
                    universities
   01:41   ogra     including user as well as system and software management
   01:41   ogra     platform independent for the client architecture
   01:42   ogra     i have no clue ... had no time yet to look at it ...
   01:42   ogra     we are near UVF and i shouldnt ever chat here to get the
                    last packages in ;)
   01:42   kjcole   ogra,  sounds like  an  ambitious system.
   01:42   flint    ogra, this is beginning to sound too good to be true.  be
                    tolerant Ollie.
   01:43   ogra     yes, i'll look up the urls for you and send it to the ML
   01:43   flint    thanks.  Now that I think about it Bush vs
                    Eurocrats...tough call eh Jane?
   01:44   ogra     pfft bush ...
   01:44   flint    exactly!!!!
   01:44   ogra     how long has he left in this period ?
   01:44   ogra     he'll be gone soon ...
   01:45   flint    please, he can do a lot more damage
   01:45   ogra     true ...
   01:45   kjcole   ogra, say that and  we'll bring "freedom and democracy"
                    to your country too! so be afraid.  ;-)
   01:45   ogra     lol
   01:45   flint    excellent kevin
   01:45   flint    lol indeed
   01:46   ogra     hey, we have "neckless angie" .... she'll manage :P
   === Yagisan mumbles somthing about importing that crap^Wstuff down here
   01:46   flint    ok we got the flight 3 in our sights.
   01:46   JaneW    ogra: don't talk about jbailey's wife like that! :P
   01:46   flint    ouch that is funny about your new pm!
   01:47   ogra     JaneW, *she* has a neck :)
   01:47   JaneW    does anyone want to volunteer as minutes atker for these
                    meetings?
   01:47   JaneW    I don;t mind the job, but I never seem to manage to get
                    it done anymore
   01:48   ogra     flint, flight 3 is old news already :)
   01:48   JaneW    and the Ubuntu Dapper Report takes a big chunk of my time
                    currently
   01:48   flint    i know that, jeff did not.
   01:49   ogra     flint, yes, because i suck at timely announcements ;)
   01:49   flint    JaneW, what is involved?
   01:49   ogra     flint, see the MeetingNotes page on the wiki
   === cyphase [n=cyphase@adsl-68-125-50-225.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has
   joined #ubuntu-meeting
   01:50   ogra     flint, https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuMeetingRecords
   01:50   flint    i did not even know there was a meeting notes page!
   01:51   flint    ogra, thanks
   01:51   JaneW    flint: liar!
   01:51   JaneW    flint: sorry I mean Alzheimers!
   === JaneW hides
   01:52   flint    do not worry I will likely forget that remark :^)
   01:52   ogra     lol
   01:52   ogra     oh, i need artwork still !!
   01:52   ogra     nearly forgot about that
                    flint: but yes basically taking salient meeting
   01:53   JaneW    notes/decisions and adding them to:
                    https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuMeetingRecords
   01:53   JaneW    oh yes
   === Seveas hands ogra the paint
   01:53   ogra     the artwork packages currently lets you select the age,
                    but has 3 times the same design :)
   01:53   JaneW    ogra: list what you need, I'll nag silbs again
   01:53   JaneW    wallpaper, splash, and  gdm theme?
   01:53   JaneW    ogra: you got icon sets?
   01:54   ogra     we can keep the young design i think (another wallpaper
                    might be fine) so what i need is mid age and older age
   01:54   ogra     i wanted to take the default icon theme for the two older
                    flavours
                    as a consultant and the authorized representative of
   01:54   flint    beazulbub, prince of falsehood, let me look into the
                    notes thing...
   01:55   ogra     so we'd only need wallpaper and splash screen artwork
   01:57   ogra     did somebody tell elkner that we are using malone
                    exclusively now ?
   01:57   kjcole   ogra, nope but it's pretty obvious when one goes to
                    bugzilla...
   01:57   ogra     oh, damned, i also wanted him to take a look at pida #
   01:58   kjcole   ogra, pida?
   01:58   ogra     its a cool python IDE i could imagine for main inclusion
   01:58   ogra     eh, and i did forget, gobby is in !! ( JaneW ")
   01:58   flint    pida yaide neat! is it in universe?
   01:58   ogra     yup+
   01:59   JaneW    ogra: oh yay, I noticed your discussion with pitti in the
                    dapper meeting last week
   01:59   ogra     but it looks like its easy to get to main ...
   01:59   JaneW    it looked promising
   01:59   kjcole   ogra, ah.  I know he's talked to Stani of SPE fame, and
                    Stani's modified SPE to  be more Ubuntu-friendly
   01:59   flint    the only down side of gobby is that it sorta needs a
                    server for school-to-school
   01:59   ogra     spe is totally broken
   01:59   ogra     and UVF is tomorrow
   01:59   JaneW    ogra: did you look at Quim's reckommeded app Dasher?
   01:59   ogra     i doubt that will be fixed in time
   01:59   JaneW    spe?
   01:59   ogra     its an editior
   02:00   JaneW    ogra: what are our issues for UVF?
   02:00   JaneW    ogra: are we asking for any exceptions this time?
   02:00   ogra     JaneW, yes, dasher is a input tool for handhelds that was
                    adopted by the a11y people
   02:00   ogra     JaneW, nope
                    JaneW, SPE = Stani's Python  Editor which includes a lot
   02:00   kjcole   of wxpython capability and i gather shows a lot of
                    promise...
   02:00   JaneW    ogra: does it makes sense for us to look at it for uni
                    and/or Dapper +1?
   02:00   ogra     ltsp development can go on until feature freeze, we dont
                    need exceptions
   02:00   JaneW    yay
   02:01   JaneW    ogar: I am PROUD OF YOU
   02:01   ogra     kjcole, we wont accept awxpython in main i think
   02:01   JaneW    and anyone who may have helped you.
   02:01   ogra     kjcole, so SPE is not an option
   02:03   flint    I thought that pycard was wx.
   02:04   flint    na, it is gtk
   02:04   ogra     pida is also for pygtk and has a direct glade interface
                    for gazpacho ...
   02:05   kjcole   Naturally, when learning GUI stuff for Python, I went
                    with wx... :-(
   02:05   ogra     its like idle on steroids with fresh design
                    and it supports embedding of different editors in the IDE
   02:07   ogra     ... you are not bound to the shipped one but can select
                    emacs or vim ...
   02:07   flint    never fooled with gazpacho mostly playing with Scite
   02:07   ogra     that brings me an idea ...
   02:07   ogra     i'll ask upstream if he likes to include gobby support ;)
   02:08   kjcole   ogra, now  there's a wild and crazy idea.  I *LIKE* it!
   02:08   flint    ogra, ollie, what we need in gobby space is a server that
                    can take gobby sessions and connect htem...
   02:09   flint    one really cool hack would be to connect them to xchat...
   02:09   ogra     flint, the current version supports that
   02:09   kjcole   flint, like a gobby daemon that doesn't have to be
                    started by any individual, but just sits and listens...
   02:09   ogra     and gobby brings a chat itself ...
   02:09   flint    supports a connection via xchat?  your kidding...
   02:09   ogra     nope, a dedicated server
   02:10   flint    kjcole, exactly  it is a gobby catcher, the users gobbys
                    are the pitchers...
   02:10   kjcole   flint, i'm going to dist-upgrade docbox  if that's the
                    case. ;-)
   02:11   flint    ogra, a dedicated server?  indeed.  kjcole use the
                    development box and have at it.
   02:11   ogra     i dont know how to set it up, i only know its included
   02:11   ogra     sobby is the name iirc
   02:12   flint    ogra, kjcole and I had a time with gobby, i ended up
                    xsessioning into his box to use it.  most slow.
   02:12   flint    ogra, sobby eh?  I will look into it.
   02:12   ogra     but that was 0.2.0
   02:12   ogra     we have 0.3.0 now
   02:13   ogra     should have improved a lot
   02:13   flint    they call it an obby server why leave off the "g"?
   02:14   flint    anyway, i am gonna get some coffee.  I will be on but
                    upstairs with a cup in my hand for a few minutes...
   02:15   ogra     hmm, btw, why wasnt the edubuntu meeting on the fridge ?
   02:15   ogra     my evolution pulls the webcal from there and notifies me
                    ...
   02:15   ogra     JaneW, ??
   02:16   kjcole   i gotta  run to work,
   === sivang amazes at the amount of new apps he gets to see here
   === kjcole gets his coat...
   02:17   JaneW    ogra: yes I got no reminder either
   02:17   sivang   ogra: pida is in python I guess?
   === JaneW will send a mail to the fridge techies
   02:17   ogra     sivang, yup
   02:17   ogra     sivang, pygtk
   02:17   sivang   very cool
   02:17   ogra     and finally a IDE that embeds vim
   02:18   sivang   were you talking about which editors to include for
                    python in Edubuntu ?
                    ogra,  any idea  how to get  korganizer  to pull the
   02:18   kjcole   calendar automatically?  I end up downloading  it an
                    importing it, but would like a  better way.
   === sivang apologies, been busy at work didn't have time to follow the
   discussions too much.
   02:19   ogra     kjcole, nope, no idea, in evo you just add the webcal url
                    and it updates automatically
   02:19   ogra     but i dont touch KDE stuff if i dont need to
                    sivang, its likely to late to include it for dapper, but
   02:20   ogra     i want the people to test heavily since we will change
                    the software selection  in dapper+1
                    ogra that may be enough  info  to go on. thanks.  (I
   02:20   kjcole   figured something  like that, but wanted to be sure it
                    wasn't too obscure in  evolution.)
   02:20   sivang   ogra: specifically for python editors, or change the
                    whole software selection for Edubuntu ?
   02:21   kjcole   and   i'm outa here.   bye!
   02:21   ogra     in evo you just add a new calendar and tell it to pull
                    the webcal address ...
   02:21   sivang   bye kjcole
   02:21   ogra     sohould be similar in KDE
   02:21   ogra     sivang, we'll see
                    first point i want people to be aware of all the stuff
   02:22   ogra     thats there and make suggestions on the ML for a new
                    selectin
   02:22   ogra     after thats done we'll see how much demand is there
   02:23   ogra     dapper+1 is still some months away
   02:23   sivang   yes, true
   02:29   JaneW    3 months to be exact
   02:32   ogra     JaneW, mhz is nagging about a new summit ...
   02:32   flint    ogra, summits can be fun.
   === JaneW read that as 'swimsuit'
   02:33   JaneW    mdz: I think we may be able to schedule one after Dapper
                    releases
   02:33   JaneW    likely not before
   02:33   flint    JaneW, an excellent thought
   02:33   JaneW    sabdfl will want to see how we do on this release forst
                    and if we keep the momentum going
   02:34   flint    well, we have done what we can to keep him entertained,
                    that is for certian.
   === doko [n=doko@dslb-084-059-065-139.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined
   #ubuntu-meeting
   02:35   flint    the good news from here is that my test capability is
                    about to start and will with f3.
   02:36   flint    and for all the posturing about the cookbook, the boys
                    are actually making good progress on docbox
                    one idea that has survived in my altzheimers inflicted
   02:37   flint    brain is that of matching the style of the cookbook with
                    the graphic style of the product.  do you recall that one
                    janeW?
   02:38   JaneW    flint: yup
   02:38   JaneW    flint: meaning gartoon theme etc?
   02:39   flint    well, that said I thought I saw you refering to different
                    graphics for different levels in this meeting. eh?
   02:39   flint    whatever is in f3 is what i will agitate the cookbook
                    mafia to go with.
   02:40   flint    what is a gartoon theme? (I'm a doctor jim, not a graphic
                    artist :^)
   02:41   flint    JaneW, ok I got it it is a gnome theme...
   02:42   JaneW    flint: after ppl saying edubuntu was too naive looking
                    and aimed at only 6-10 y/o kids we agreed to do
   02:42   JaneW    1) Young as per current but with different wall paper
   02:42   JaneW    2) Older appealing to 10-15 y/o
   02:42   flint    yea, that's it.  that's the ticket.  will this be the
                    same at all levels of system use?
   02:43   JaneW    3) Generic plain and simple look, less distracting and
                    resource intensive and possibly for tertiary edu use
   02:43   flint    JaneW, the question then is can that three level
                    demarcation be continued in the cookbook?
   02:43   JaneW    how?
   02:44   JaneW    the cook book is not specific to any of the choices
   02:44   JaneW    but we should perhaps depict the selections in the cook
                    book
   02:44   flint    JaneW, like the intro and fundamental stuff is in graphic
                    1 style and so on...
   02:44   JaneW    nah I think select one and be consistent
   02:45   flint    JaneW, kidnap note typography forever!
   === JaneW has to go, we have just over an hour, and an announcement to get
   out...
   02:45   JaneW    ogra: ping ^^^
   02:45   flint    JaneW, i will get back to you via mail about notes...
                    later this week.
   02:46   JaneW    flint: awesome thanks
   02:46   flint    ogra, you asleep?
   === Hirion [n=hirion@draugr.de] has left #ubuntu-meeting []
                    the gauledette community of deaf folks sign off with
   02:47   flint    "stop key stop key" or sksk, I would like to adopt this
                    convention here.
   02:47   flint    later, sksk
   === flint [n=flint@69-164-122-221.sbtnvt.adelphia.net] has left
   #ubuntu-meeting ["Leaving"]
   02:49   ogra     nope, my line is shaky
   02:51   JaneW    ogra: * JaneW has to go, we have just over an hour, and
                    an announcement to get out...
   02:51   JaneW    JaneW ogra: ping ^^^
   02:56   ogra     JaneW, a minute please, my line is dropping all the time
                    ...
   02:57   ogra     JaneW, better now
   02:57   JaneW    ogra: ok
   

Edubuntu/Meetings/Logs/2006-01-18 (last edited 2009-10-14 19:53:21 by 95)