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This is a log or summary of an Edubuntu Meeting. Please go to the Meeting Page for more information about our meetings.
Meeting April 5, 2006
02:00 flint for the assembled masses I would like to re-open with my deathless prose... 02:00 flint I would like to re-announce that our plan to keep edubuntu a secret is working perfectly! No one anywhere at LinuxWorld Boston is advertising, offering, extending or acknowledging edubuntu. Thus I remain pleased to report that we have succeded! our secret is safe! Actually, the guys at the LTSP boot told me in private that they had "heard" of edubuntu, but that was off the record, and the sales guy at the WYSE booth wanted to 02:00 flint sell me a buncha old xterms... 02:01 flint thus concludes my report from Boston LinuxWorld USA. 02:01 JaneW thanks flint 02:02 JaneW ok who is here for the Edubuntu meeting? 02:02 flint JaneW, are you really putting that vast advertising budget the foundation is giving you into pain drugs? 02:02 flint :^) 02:03 JaneW flint we get no budget what so ever 02:04 JaneW despite several requests for a few small promotional and branding items 02:04 JaneW there's not much more I can do at this point, besides 02:04 JaneW 1) Give up 02:04 ogra and we dont have many community people in the US that could do such a booth (i only know three) 02:04 JaneW 2) Fund stuff myself 02:04 ogra (two of them regulary attend this meeting) 02:05 flint ogra, I am gonna be teaching courses at three symposia in New England this quarter on edubuntu. Think of the fees that I will garner from this! 02:05 ogra JaneW, edubuntu promotion on fairs works well in germany ... withot any funding === jsgotangco [n=jsg@ubuntu/member/jsgotangco] has joined #ubuntu-meeting 02:05 flint ogra, my fortune is assured. 02:06 flint :^) 02:06 flint so if JaneW would only share her drugs... 02:06 ogra flint, sure, but you are local, so either organize something yourself or stop complaining :P its a job for the LoCo teams, if they fail, complain at them 02:07 flint ogra, i am not complaining I am whining... there is a difference you know. 02:07 flint but the topic of budget is a dogged one. 02:07 ogra edubuntu was at the Cebit, at the LinuxDays in Essen and will have a booth on LinuxTag in wiesbaden, without any intervention from canonical or from me 02:08 jsgotangco nor in LinuxWorld Manila 02:08 ogra this much for germany ... 02:08 ogra oh and i forgot, it was as well on TV with the cebit booth 02:08 jsgotangco some people are good self starters :) 02:08 flint ogra, but germany is a socialist anarchy. 02:09 flint america is a facist state. we need to bribe the officials in power. that takes a budget :^) === jsgotangco doesn't feel comfortable when money is involved 02:09 flint I would propose that a new topic be considered - edubuntu budget. 02:09 JaneW ok money whining aside 02:10 flint jsgotangco, you just hate politics... 02:10 JaneW ogra: everything ok on your side? 02:10 ogra yep 02:10 JaneW ogra: good 02:10 jsgotangco flint: you're saying grassroots advocacy doesn't work 02:10 ogra i have not much to say ... 02:10 JaneW you mentioned bugs from mdz 02:10 ogra we had flight 6 02:10 JaneW are they edubuntu related or other 02:10 ogra yes, ubuntu bugs 02:10 flint ogra, kevin cole found a program that kills the terminals on flight 5 02:10 JaneW oic 02:10 JaneW how's flight 6 looking? 02:11 JaneW Anyone tested it yet? 02:11 jsgotangco sorry 02:11 ogra i thnik there are 3 or 4 edubuntu bugs among them 02:11 JaneW (Note I am going to have to slow down the typing - hurts) === jsgotangco tested ubuntu-server and hunted xorg bugs 02:11 ogra one is from jsgotangco btw :) 02:11 flint JaneW, been playing in Boston... 02:11 ogra we need a css for the about edubuntu page ;) 02:11 flint have not tested will test for Kevin Coles' bug when I get back to the lab. 02:12 ogra additionally highvoltage made this beautiful document: http://jonathancarter.co.za/docs/ed-gs/ 02:12 ogra i'll replace the contents of edubuntu-docs with it 02:12 jsgotangco that's beautiful 02:12 ogra else we're still waiting to see some of the designer artwork 02:13 ogra thats it so far from the tech side 02:13 ogra ohhh 02:13 flint highvoltage, where do you find the time? that page is excellent. 02:13 ogra and sabdfl approved that we can get rid of this darn "server" installoption 02:13 JaneW ogra: do you have an eta on the designer work 02:13 ogra it wont be on flight 7 i hopew 02:13 JaneW ? 02:13 JaneW highvoltage: nice doc! :)) 02:14 JaneW ogra: won't? 02:14 ogra JaneW, nope 02:14 ogra apart from silbs telling me that my colors might get changed fopr the designer stuff i havent heard anything 02:14 JaneW ok 02:14 ogra (i'm lagging like hell here ...) 02:15 ogra grr 02:15 jsgotangco its already 2006 and we still experience lag 02:16 ogra JaneW, yes won't :) 02:16 ogra finally 02:16 ogra i was fighting for that since dapper started === JaneW is lagged too 02:17 ogra so this screen will only have: "install to HD" and "install a workstation" http://jonathancarter.co.za/docs/ed-gs/images/cdboot.png 02:18 ogra (above the "Check ..." that is) 02:19 flint ogra, yea why would you only install as a server? 02:19 ogra flint, "server" actually means "minimal" 02:19 ogra that confused a lot of people 02:20 ogra but renaming seems to be difficult, so we'll drop it completely 02:20 jsgotangco even ubuntu-server has better options 02:20 jsgotangco more descriptive 02:20 flint ogra, thankfully i am too illiturate to get confused... 02:21 ogra flint, and i thought guess you are just too lazy and hit enter for the default selection (the first one) :) 02:21 ogra -guess 02:21 flint ogra, what you call lazy i call excellent user interface design. 02:21 ogra hehe 02:22 flint :^) god I am a suckup. === highvoltage arrives 02:23 ogra next topic ? 02:23 highvoltage flint: i created that page over friday evening and saturday morning :) === freeflying-ibook [firstname.lastname@example.org] has joined #ubuntu-meeting 02:24 ogra highvoltage, we'll need to go through it once ... there are still some things in that need fixing ... but i think its the best doc we ever had up to now, thanks a lot 02:24 jsgotangco \o/ 02:24 highvoltage ogra: np, there'll more where that came from 02:24 highvoltage (be more) 02:24 ogra :) 02:25 ogra jsgotangco, does ff open help:// links in yelp ? 02:25 highvoltage just on the website stuff, the theming is coming along okay, although not completed yet. 02:25 jsgotangco ogra: it doesn't 02:25 ogra meh 02:25 ogra it would be cool to link it from the ff default page ... 02:25 highvoltage we'll be able to finish up when the edubuntu theming is finalised, since we want the website to resemble the system, building better brand assosiation 02:25 JaneW sorry I just had an nb phone call 02:25 jsgotangco ogra: it doesn't even know irc:// 02:25 olive it does, if help:// is set in gconf 02:26 ogra olive, oh, thats good news, i'll look into it 02:26 ogra thanks for the hint :) 02:27 jsgotangco you don't want to put it in yelp instead? it'll have a shiny new frontpage 02:28 ogra i think it should reside among the UbuntuServer Guide and the other docs in there 02:28 flint ogra, I gotta say your idea of a ff link sounds good to me. === Lure [email@example.com] has joined #ubuntu-meeting 02:29 ogra i'm not sure if we can ship ubuntu-docs at all :( 02:29 jsgotangco hrmmm 02:29 ogra since i was told it will grow a lot 02:29 jsgotangco those are good docs 02:29 highvoltage ogra: about the Schooltool link, will we get one in firefox or in the gnome-menus? 02:29 ogra highvoltage, i'd prefer ff 02:30 highvoltage ogra: me 2. 02:30 flint ogra, surely you cannot have space on the CD for jonathans page do you? 02:30 highvoltage currently it's about 600k large (which is quite big) 02:31 highvoltage but if i save the images as jpegs (which will distort them slightly), it should be able to come down to 200k 02:31 ogra flint, highvoltages page will be ~2M with screenshots in the end ... ubuntu-docs might grow to 10M or more 02:31 ogra s/will/might/ 02:31 highvoltage although it's not complete yet, so when the docuemnt is more complete it will probably lean toward 400k 02:31 jsgotangco can you optimize the pngs? 02:31 jsgotangco pngcrush or something 02:31 flint ogra, you are a wizard, get over here and pack my suitcase! :^) 02:31 ogra sure you can use pngcrunch 02:32 flint ogra, jpegs are always firefox tasty 02:32 highvoltage ok, i'll try that instead of using jpegs 02:32 ogra we dont ship any language packs in the CD currently ... i'll need to make room before release for at least some of them 02:34 flint ogra, got to have european languages. the chinese have a whole wall at this show (no kidding) 02:34 JaneW ogra: how do you select them? 02:34 JaneW by most popular? 02:34 ogra i guess so ... 02:34 JaneW ok, and then the rest will have to be d/led 02:34 ogra i thought selecting the same way ubuntu does (which is by most popular) 02:35 ogra but we probably should take into account where *we* are most popular 02:35 jsgotangco remove OOo then replace it with abiword, gnumeric and magicpoint :) === jsgotangco hides 02:35 flint JaneW, I recommend the list begin with German and Dutch :^) 02:35 ogra flint, these are not very popular 02:36 ogra (probably place 15 from the 90 langs we have) 02:36 highvoltage jsgotangco: or gnome with xfce :) 02:36 flint ogra, I like 'em :^) 02:36 jsgotangco highvoltage: aye, the xubuntu flight 6 is pretty solid 02:36 jsgotangco still ate 1.2GB of HD though 02:37 ogra we dont care about HDs :) 02:37 ogra only about isos ;) 02:37 jsgotangco true though 02:37 flint we care about CD's 02:37 highvoltage jsgotangco: i'm running xfce now, it's really come a far way, definately a strong candidate as default desktop in edubuntu, imo. ogra seems to agree there too, so i'm quite excited about that. 02:37 jsgotangco and we still get gtk2 love 02:38 ogra i dont agree for it as default, but optional :) 02:38 flint this is when you say, one language one CD. Many languages one DVD. 02:39 ogra flint, we cant ship only one language on the CD === jarufe [firstname.lastname@example.org] has joined #ubuntu-meeting 02:39 flint kinda like the mondo mindi layout. a core iso and options to fill the available space... 02:40 flint I did not say which language. how many lang packs could you get on a CD comfortably... 02:40 jsgotangco 1 02:40 jsgotangco :D 02:40 flint jsgotangco, I think it is better than that. Gnome does amazing things with languages. === raphink [n=raphink@ubuntu/member/raphink] has joined #ubuntu-meeting 02:41 ogra flint, but KDE doesnt 02:41 ogra we ship both by default ... the KDE packs eat a lot more space 02:41 jsgotangco \o_ K D E _o/ 02:42 ogra since they contain *all* translations for the *whole* KDE .... while we need translations for 6 apps or so 02:42 flint ogra, I never even tried to get to KDE. It installs by default, oh it must to support kde based apps! === pips1 [email@example.com] has joined #ubuntu-meeting 02:42 ogra yep === flint senses a bitterness from ogra on this topic... 02:43 ogra i dont know if we'd have an option to split out kdeedu packs, pitti might know 02:44 flint but you cannot get around supporting the KDE apps. so you need lang packs for both kde and gnome... 02:44 flint not to mention the actual console packs. 02:45 flint ogra, suppose we attacked the three packs with a spell check tokenizer per language? 02:46 ogra ?? 02:46 highvoltage flint: you'll still be able to run KDE apps, if you apt-get install a KDE app, it will download the KDE libraries too 02:46 ogra "spell check tokenizer" ? 02:46 highvoltage flint: so it's not like KDE will be completely unsuported 02:46 ogra i still want to drop the KDE stuff asap 02:47 jsgotangco ogra: you'll be supporting them for 5 years though 02:47 flint each language has a spell checker, and if you took each lang pack and tokenized it based on the spell checker crib, you could gain dramatic compression improvement. 02:47 ogra yes, but i dont want to have the same issue with the next 5 year release 02:47 flint tokenized the lang pack that is. 02:47 highvoltage ogra: you mean after release, of course? 02:48 flint sadly this is a research project we have neither the time or resources to go after. 02:48 ogra highvoltage, dropping KDE ? yes ... 02:48 highvoltage ok 02:48 highvoltage i think the sooner the better (after release). 02:48 ogra else it would already have been dropped 02:49 highvoltage heh. 02:49 ogra we need replacements first 02:49 ogra and apps like kalzium are hard to replace 02:49 flint as I understand it there are 6 specific packages that need the kde stuff. 02:49 ogra (its winning awards all over the world) 02:50 ogra flint, nope 02:50 ogra only one package .... 6 apps 02:50 flint ok gotcha. 02:50 ogra i just talked to pitti in -devel, he said its technically no problem, but it will produce another 100 packages 02:50 ogra (one for every lang) 02:51 highvoltage geez 02:51 ogra i'll need to discuss it with him ... 02:51 ogra and also see how much we'd really gain with it 02:52 flint I am out of time... thanks for the kind words... 02:52 flint sksk 02:52 ogra ciao flint 02:52 ogra so any artwork/doc/community stuff left ? 02:53 highvoltage not for today, from my side. 02:53 jsgotangco i can only bughunt/test for this cycle for now 02:53 ogra ok, so lets close the meeting then ... 02:54 ogra adjourned, thanks all 02:54 JaneW when is the cookbook debate going to be resolved? 02:55 ogra dunno, Pygi was talking about friday morning ... 02:55 highvoltage thanks ogra 02:55 JaneW ok friday is good 02:56 jsgotangco cookbook debate heh 02:56 JaneW except 10:00 - 11:00 UTC - chiro appt 02:56 jsgotangco that sounded really bad === jarufe [firstname.lastname@example.org] has left #ubuntu-meeting ["Bye..] 02:58 ogra JaneW, he taled about 9:00 UTC 02:58 ogra *talked 03:00 JaneW ogra: ok good 03:00 JaneW I appologise for being a bit spaced out 03:01 JaneW I agree with flint that we need to focus on getting Edubuntu out there with the Dapper release 03:01 JaneW and will need more of a marketing and awareness drive 03:01 JaneW we have hung back due to Breezy being a bit limited, but now we need to get people using it and talking about it MORE 03:02 JaneW and the documentation is important to achieveing that goal 03:02 JaneW IMO 03:02 ogra sure ... 03:02 ogra but i'm fine with jonathans doc for now ... if we dont get a cookbook, we'll at least have this one ... 03:03 JaneW so more stuff like highvoltage's doc will be good 03:03 JaneW yes agreed 03:03 JaneW it's neat, friendly, easy to read and understand 03:03 JaneW that what we need 03:03 ogra additionally i'm writing a bunch of LTSP docs, merge them, add some info about the edu apps, and you have a cookbook 03:03 JaneW excellent 03:04 ogra did you ever take a look at the server guide and the admin guide from dappers ubuntu-docs ? 03:05 ogra it covers already most of our stuff 03:06 pips1 ogra, is that server guide you are talking about in the 'Help' of Dapper? 03:06 ogra yep 03:06 pips1 ok, i shall check it out 03:06 ogra there is desktop guide, server guide and packaging guide 03:06 ogra and about ubuntu 03:07 pips1 ogra, I finally got flight6 running with internet access 03:07 ogra just open yelp on a dapper machine 03:07 ogra yay 03:07 pips1 the german localisation works ok, as far as I could tell so far 03:07 ogra good 03:07 pips1 I'll do some more testing later 03:08 ogra (lest move to #edubuntu) 03:08 ogra *lets 03:08 pips1 i wasn't able to login with my thinpad as client via pxe, though, need to investigate further 03:08 pips1 ok 03:09 pips1 --> edubuntu