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Minutes of Meeting EmiratesTeam/Meetings/IRCMeeting20120718

This is the log of the IRC meeting, held on #ubuntu-ae channel on Wednesday 18 July 2012:

19:06:56 <not_found> #startmeeting
19:06:56 <roboto`> Meeting started Wed Jul 18 19:06:56 2012 UTC.  The chair is 
not_found. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
19:06:56 <roboto`> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link 
#topic.
19:07:13 <rverrips> #info
19:07:15 <not_found> #topic Activities of previous month
19:07:23 <not_found> Most commands won
19:07:29 <not_found> Won't do much at the moment
19:07:35 <not_found> only set it up today
19:07:37 <Planet_EN> document updated
19:07:40 <not_found> Topic Activities of previous month
19:08:13 <not_found> AFAIK there was a meetup last month... anything else 
happen?
19:08:18 <not_found> thx Planet_EN
19:09:03 <Planet_EN> Is canonical interested to invest hosting a tech talk in 
the region?
19:09:11 <joseph_> Nothing else, I am in contact with BITS pilani contact, he 
is doing his thesis, asked me to contact him by August end
19:09:35 <not_found> Planet_EN, that is something that would need to be 
discussed with Canonical...
19:09:53 <not_found> joseph_, K... any body else?
19:10:05 <joseph_> Mr Malik I spoke to him, he will be arranging the next month 
meetup at Burjuman
19:10:10 <joseph_> we can start
19:10:28 <Planet_EN> I can ask people from some tech companies to show up
19:11:00 <joseph_> Also I reminded Malik about the activities which he had 
volunteered for University
19:11:30 <joseph_> New guy Meejo who joined is a debian expert
19:11:45 <joseph_> Can we start now
19:11:49 <not_found> K, shall I take this topic as closed?
19:12:00 <joseph_> ya
19:12:05 <not_found> What would you like to start mr joseph_ ... the meeting is 
in full swing :)
19:12:38 <joseph_> I mean I will start with agenda
19:12:45 <not_found> #topic Possibly organize a tech night inviting people from 
leading tech companies to come and talk
19:12:48 <joseph_> we will start with agenda
19:12:58 <not_found> I shuffled them about a bit joseph_ ...
19:13:07 <not_found> can everyone see the topic I posted?
19:13:49 <joseph_> Ya I can see
19:14:17 <Braggart> Yes.
19:14:23 <not_found> OK... Planet_EN , you would like to get tech people to a 
talk... on what subjects where you thinking?
19:14:41 <not_found> thanks joseph_ , Braggart
19:15:27 <Planet_EN> not_found: might not be all about ubuntu, could just be 
linux in general and/or web
19:15:46 <joseph_> and in line with open source,
19:16:01 <Planet_EN> Can ask some of the GTUG guys to come in too if they are 
willing..
19:16:10 <not_found> Planet_EN, it might be a bit big for us at the moment, 
just MHO
19:16:23 <not_found> any thoughts guys?
19:16:25 <joseph_> GTUG ?
19:16:41 <Planet_EN> MAKE Cafe dubai is offering you a decent space to host 
talks
19:16:44 <Planet_EN> in Marina
19:17:16 <joseph_> Googe techn user group
19:17:31 <Planet_EN> minimum spend of 50 AED per person.. (Sorry to sound like 
their promoter but well I'm quite sold with their branding)
19:18:26 <Planet_EN> joseph_: yupp, they've hosted quite decent events, they 
had some google+ staff coming over and give talks..
19:18:28 <not_found> Could we discuss this a bit more on the mailing list 
perhaps and flesh out ideas?
19:18:33 <Braggart> It's all well and good to host talks, but what does it 
benefit us as a group promoting Ubuntu and our goals? Recognition?
19:18:52 <joseph_> 50 AED pp , it will be too much for some regular users
19:19:18 <Planet_EN> It'll have ubuntu branding and event may have open source 
or ubuntu in name
19:19:30 <Planet_EN> will get the name out
19:21:12 <not_found> I doubt Canonical will be getting involved except if we 
decide to host something really big and impressive and we are not up to speed 
to do that yet.
19:21:33 <not_found> May I suggest we continue fleshing out the idea on the 
mailing list perhaps? Vote?
19:21:39 <not_found> +1
19:21:50 <joseph_> +1
19:21:55 <Ragesh> +1
19:22:04 <Planet_EN> Braggart: goals of the group are eventually to promote 
open source awareness.. you may stretch it up to even call it OSCon DXB, OSCon 
is quite big..
19:22:30 <not_found> Planet_EN, the goal of the LoCo seems to be a bit fuzzy at 
the moment :D
19:23:08 <rverrips> +1
19:23:13 <not_found> #agreed Discuss idea for tech talk in coming month for 
future date
19:23:28 <not_found> #topic Drive to becoming an Official LoCo:
19:23:40 <Planet_EN> do you guys have a domain?
19:23:43 <Planet_EN> site?
19:23:45 <not_found> Topic -  Drive to becoming an Official LoCo: (for those 
with funny clients that can't see it)
19:24:14 <not_found> Perhaps I can start by asking... What is the purpose of 
the LoCo?
19:24:14 <Ragesh> yes Planet_EN ubuntu.ae is ours
19:24:37 <not_found> hey Guest39981 :p lost your name there
19:25:03 <rverrips> should we go through a list of "what is ours" / "still 
ours?"
19:25:10 <Planet_EN> Ragesh: that 302s to ubuntu's wiki, so its merely a 
domain, eh?
19:25:39 <not_found> rverrips, that depends... are we looking at it as an "our 
thing/their thing" situation?
19:25:51 <rverrips> Yes Ragesh, but we own the domain registration so can mak 
it co anywhere ...
19:25:54 <Guest39981> #exit
19:26:06 <not_found> /exit
19:26:10 <not_found> I think Guest39981
19:26:20 <rverrips> not_found: When we talk about official Loco it's sadly an 
"out thing / his thing" situation last time I checked
19:26:44 <rverrips> out thing typo, meant to say "our thing / his thing"
19:27:23 <rverrips> Not sure if all are aware but as far as canonical is 
concerned their is already a Loco in the UAE, and we're not it.
19:27:45 <Braggart> Speaking of which, the contact person is already registered 
to Mr Zulfiqar, joseph_. (FYI, confirmed by Neil)
19:27:46 <not_found> rverrips, not 100% correct
19:28:08 <joseph_> Now it is Neil
19:28:16 <joseph_> contact person is Neil now
19:28:36 <Braggart> It's been changed already?
19:28:36 <not_found> Zulfiqar has registered the loco and is showing as the 
admin and also the contact person as per this 
http://loco.ubuntu.com/teams/ubuntu-ae
19:29:07 <not_found> which makes life difficult if we try and get any 
assistance from Canonical as he is "our" spokesperson"
19:29:10 <rverrips> Jospeh_ I was referring to Zulfiqar as the other person who 
is listed as all ...
19:29:26 <not_found> I feel that one person registering something isn
19:29:33 <not_found> isn't a loco
19:29:52 <Planet_EN> ok from what I understand we can all list what are Loco 
#goals
19:29:53 <Ragesh> how can he do that??
19:29:58 <rverrips> I know Neil, I agree with you, but we haven't gotten 
anywhere when trying to talk with Zulfiqar
19:30:03 <Braggart> So do we contact the LoCo Council again?
19:30:11 <Planet_EN> anything followed with #goals have to be voted and we 
discuss it out?
19:30:31 <rverrips> I think Toki or Joseph contacted the council and their 
advise was to try sort it our internally / work together, etc.
19:30:32 <joseph_> See if Zulfigar if he promotes Open Source, he should talk
19:30:39 <not_found> Planet_EN, sure... but all depends if we are aiming to be 
a LUG or an Ubuntu Loco... our aims will differ
19:30:49 <joseph_> May be he wanted to make use of our effort to promote his 
buisness
19:30:51 <Braggart> rverrips: It was yours truly.
19:31:24 <rverrips> +1 for joseph_'s comment on his effort to use the Loco for 
personal gain.  Seems that was always the case when I tried to approach him 
about it
19:31:29 <Planet_EN> not_found: I thought you guys had a clear idea of what you 
wanted to be.. no?
19:31:40 <not_found> Well, there are many things we cannot do if we are not 
working together with whomever is regestered as the admin and contact person
19:32:06 <not_found> Planet_EN, I have... but listening to many members and 
there ideas it seems that my ideas aren
19:32:11 <not_found> Aren't there ideas
19:32:22 <joseph_> A person like Zulfiqar coming as point of contact, you could 
see the active members slowly disappearing,No one wants there community effort 
to be commercial exploited
19:32:51 <not_found> Canonical won't stand for it either... but we don't know 
it is truly his intention (yet)
19:33:03 <Planet_EN> not_found: if youre a founding member, eliminate the 
people who differ with the goal you've in mind to a different group, why so 
scared of forking?
19:33:04 <joey_> I dont think there is any confusion on whether we are a LoCo 
or a LUG
19:33:09 <Braggart> Okay, enough speculation about MR Zulfiqar's intentions and 
actions, please let's decide what we need to do.
19:33:45 <Braggart> As I was saying, should we contact the LoCo Council again 
to sort this out?
19:33:48 <not_found> Planet_EN, A community is it's members :) nobody more or 
less than anybody
19:33:59 <joseph_> I am for going separately convincing the Ubuntu that 
Zulfiqar is idle and not doing any effort for the benift of the community
19:34:06 <Ragesh> We need to contact the council
19:34:08 <joey_> I second Toki, lets contact the council and present the 
current situation and seek their advice
19:34:10 <Planet_EN> not_found: law is above all! :D
19:34:19 <not_found> Planet_EN, who's law?
19:34:25 <not_found> Ok... many thoughts
19:34:30 <rverrips> +1 for contacting the Ubuntu Council again - Suggest it be 
Toki again, just 'cause he did the last time
19:34:35 <Planet_EN> not_found: community's manifesto
19:34:38 <joseph_> Toki +1
19:34:51 <Ragesh> +1
19:34:52 <Braggart> Ah, I was just about to ask who's going to do it.
19:34:54 <not_found> Could I suggest that we try one last time to communicate 
with Z... say until the end of the month?
19:35:10 <Braggart> +1 to not_found.
19:35:22 <not_found> Then Toki can try the council showing our efforts?
19:35:22 <joey_> ok Neil, but what are we going to tell Z?
19:35:25 <rverrips> +1 for trying Z one more time, but let's set a deadline, 
and nothing happens move ahead to the council.
19:35:47 <not_found> End of the month?
19:35:54 <joey_> at the risk of being prejudiced, I can see what Z is trying to 
do
19:35:56 <Planet_EN> it more or less seems like a dead end to me
19:35:57 <Braggart> As not_found said, end of month is good enough.
19:36:17 <not_found> I will write him a letter expressing our intentions and 
what we need from him as admin and contact person...
19:36:25 <rverrips> Planet_EN - I agree it's a dead end, but for transparency 
sake I'd suggest one more try ...
19:36:30 <joey_> k, Neil
19:36:33 <rverrips> Makes our case with the council stronger as well
19:36:34 <Ragesh> I think Z is announcing himself as our leader.. what should 
we talk to him?
19:36:43 <Planet_EN> anyways, when the identity dilemma is figured out, I'd 
join in.. till then ciao
19:36:53 <joseph_> see Mr Z is in the LoCO , he will be getting the mail 
notification and copy of this chat. I feel no need to contact him seperately. 
If community interest is there at least in small percentatge, he will 
co-ordinate with us , other wise we should take the message
19:36:54 <not_found> Planet_EN, thanks for joining in
19:37:02 <Planet_EN> take care people
19:37:11 <Braggart> not_found: Please ask him, if he's not willing to cooperate 
with us, to step down and transfer the responsibility fo contact person to 
someone else.
19:37:23 <not_found> joseph_, better for us to reach out...
19:37:27 <not_found> Braggart, +1
19:37:39 <joseph_> Ok let us try one more time
19:37:46 <not_found> #agreed not_found to contact Mr. Zulfiqar
19:38:06 <not_found> #agreed Toki to contact council if not_found fails :p
19:38:17 <joey_> I think we need to be clear in our intentions and 
communication with Z
19:38:26 <not_found> joey_, agreed
19:38:29 <joseph_> #agreed let toki contact
19:38:53 <not_found> guys... meetup... use or let go? (possibly once we have 
other resources in use?
19:39:09 <Braggart> Yes, and I hope the accusatory tone will not be used like 
most of the responses to his last email to our mailing list.
19:39:36 <Braggart> not_found: Use what?
19:39:43 <joey_> long term, meetup should be let go, specially given the $$ 
load on a quarterly basis to keep it ON
19:39:47 <Braggart> Oh, right. Let go as usual.
19:40:15 <not_found> And if we keep it going I suggest a donation to joseph_ as 
he has been shouldering the cost thus far
19:40:26 <joseph_> But you see the Dubai Technight people joined us because of 
meetup
19:40:28 <Braggart> Speaking of which, we can just as easily post our meetings 
on events.loco.com after we have the contact person sorted out.
19:40:33 <not_found> but personally I want to stop using it
19:40:35 <Ragesh> yes meetup should go
19:40:56 <joseph_> How fast we can move
19:41:14 <Ragesh> we should rather publicize loco on social media
19:41:15 <not_found> joseph_, sadly all the tech nights peeps are not alligning 
with what we are trying to achieve as a loco
19:41:27 <rverrips> How 'bout we offer Z a trade - The meetup group for the 
Loco :-)
19:41:32 <not_found> Ragesh, yes... twitter, facebook, g+ etc
19:41:36 <Braggart> joseph_: I think as fast as we can get a hold on #ubuntu-ae 
Launchpad to get what we have now on MEetup.
19:42:10 <rverrips> I have admin access to the Loco facebook - Not sure 'bout 
Twitter and the Linkedin Page ... Do we have a g+ page?
19:42:11 <not_found> yup... once we have some access to ubuntu-ae we can make a 
sub forum on www.ubuntuforums.org
19:42:15 <Braggart> rverrips: That will solve nothing, and he's already listed 
as an organizer, if you haven't noticed.
19:42:26 <not_found> btw - there is already a mailing list for ubuntu-ae
19:42:45 <not_found> rverrips, dunno... we should make one
19:42:49 <Braggart> not_found: Launchpad? All LP groups have mailing lists.
19:43:10 <not_found> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/Ubuntu-ae
19:43:36 <not_found> not sure about the connection with launchpad
19:43:47 <joseph_> this mailing list, who manages
19:43:51 <Braggart> Oh yeah, that. Um, according to LoCo guidelines, which 
mailing list are we supposed to use?\
19:44:02 <Braggart> joseph_: Wasn't it Z?
19:44:05 <not_found> A mailing list... doesn't matter
19:44:15 <not_found> as long as all members have access etc.
19:44:30 <Braggart> With Launchpad groups for LoCos, I wonder why they have 
separate mailing lists there.
19:44:37 <not_found> I suspect it might be Z.. but anyone can sign up
19:45:11 <joseph_> If it is Z, motivating people will be difficult, I strongly 
feel Mr Z should step down as any official designation of  Ubuntu community
19:45:47 <joey_> joseph +1
19:46:16 <joey_> unlikely he will heed our request, so need to persuade 
canonical do eject him
19:46:22 <not_found> joseph_, I have no problem with who ever has his name as 
admin etc... if the persons actions are above board then it is ok... if the 
actions are out of line then we have a problem that we can take to the CC etc
19:46:34 <Ragesh> I think its high time council should get into these matters.. 
else its sucha shame for ubuntu community
19:46:43 <joseph_> Do not have the moral courage to ask any volunteers to 
contribute, since Mr Z did do anything and he holds any post
19:47:07 <not_found> joseph_, which posts|
19:47:08 <not_found> ?
19:47:25 <Braggart> I think the problem with Z is not his actions, but that 
there is no actions to speak of in the first place. He's doing absolutely 
nothing with his position.
19:47:57 <not_found> Guys... position in this case only means more work :) 
Nothing else... I think we are creating a barrier where there isn
19:47:59 <joseph_> mailing list admin or EmiratesLoCo registered person 
anything which reflect community interest , he should leave
19:48:01 <not_found> *isn't one
19:48:10 <joey_> Toki, the actions are implicit, doing nothign is also an 
action, he choses to do nothing, maintain status quo and wear the opposition 
thin
19:48:37 <not_found> Well, he has two weeks to do what we request ;)
19:48:46 <not_found> or leave.. or get removed
19:48:58 <joey_> not found +1
19:49:05 <joseph_> yes agree leave.. or get removed
19:49:08 <Braggart> I think we had enough of Z discussions, joseph_ what about 
the stuff you wanted to do/doing in that Pilani uni?
19:49:35 <not_found> #agreed wait and see and here from Z before taking more 
actions about meetup etc.
19:49:40 <not_found> #topic future actions
19:49:43 <not_found> Topic future actions
19:50:14 <joseph_> As mentioned The guy in pilani is doing his thesis and he 
asked me to contact by end of August or september 1'st week
19:50:33 <joseph_> We have to go through him,
19:50:43 <not_found> joseph_, could you mention some of the things you are 
planning (like you mentioned at the meetup)
19:50:57 <Braggart> Other than the document management thing, are we going to 
have something like an installfest at the dates you mentioned?
19:51:05 * Braggart feels hopeful.
19:51:21 <joseph_> Ya, my intention is to hook students in Projects, for this I 
plan to implement Document Management for the college purpose
19:51:43 * not_found thinks we should aim for an installfest to fall with the 
release of 12.10 and 12.04.01 (might have our house in order by then)
19:52:08 <Braggart> Oh yes, not_found, please make it clear that you will be 
making the correspondence with Mr Z public. I do need something to tell the 
Council about after all.
19:52:29 <not_found> Braggart, I will make it public in as many ways as I can :)
19:52:45 <joseph_> thans neil
19:53:02 <Braggart> CC'd to our mailing list, Pastebinned, etc. for instance? :P
19:53:34 <not_found> guys... one more thing for the coming month... we need 
more peeps on IRC... to assist if needed if anybody has issues... I am in here 
more often than not alone
19:53:54 <not_found> support is key activity of a loco
19:54:05 <joseph_> I will try to bring in more guys
19:54:38 <rverrips> Not_found - I hear you about IRC, but to be honest is that 
still where people are going for help?  Shouldn't we perhaps think of actively 
monitoring the facebook page?
19:54:50 <not_found> rverrips, both
19:54:56 <rverrips> I meant to say "also activetly monitoring" the facebook 
page ... and twitter ...
19:54:57 <Ragesh> I login whenever I remember.. I'm trying to make it a habit
19:55:22 <not_found> #agreed Joseph to hook students in Projects,  I plan to 
implement Document Management for the college purpose
19:55:45 <not_found> rverrips, we need peeps on all those...
19:56:01 <not_found> but showing something as a support area and not supporting 
is a bad thing
19:56:15 <not_found> !whoami
19:56:15 <roboto`> not_found: nlsthzn
19:56:31 <rverrips> !whoami
19:56:31 <roboto`> rverrips: I don't recognize you.
19:56:32 <not_found> do we have twitter
19:56:52 <not_found> Who wants to create our G+ page?
19:56:55 <rverrips> I thought we had twitter? ...
19:57:00 <not_found> rverrips, dunno
19:57:24 <Braggart> Nope, never had Twitter, AFAIK.
19:57:43 <not_found> k... who wants to create our twitter account?
19:57:50 <Braggart> Hmm, we could use Twitter for support purposes?
19:57:51 <joseph_> me also do not have twiter and never used
19:58:00 <not_found> Braggart, twitter for information
19:58:10 <not_found> one more way to inform people
19:58:12 <Braggart> What kind of information can we provide?
19:58:15 <not_found> about what we are doing
19:58:28 <not_found> meeting reminders, up and coming events etc.
19:58:32 <not_found> it works
19:58:48 <Ragesh> awesome
19:58:53 <Braggart> Twitter is a fast-paced back and forth thing, so I don't 
think it will do well for reminders and the like.
19:59:02 <not_found> Braggart, it works...
19:59:09 <not_found> doesn't mean you have to use it
19:59:16 <not_found> but for those that choose too
19:59:36 <not_found> k... so nobody wants twitter?
19:59:47 <Braggart> Oh and beside online methods, I think we can encourage 
people to get support in out regular meetings. Easier way to help and spread 
knowledge. And much more hands-on.
20:00:12 <not_found> Braggart, our venues are not conducive to that
20:00:15 <Braggart> More like who should be in charge of twitter?
20:00:15 <joey_> getting folks to attend meetings is always the big challenge
20:01:12 <not_found> Braggart, so who loves there twitter and would like to 
tweet like a mad man?
20:01:18 <Braggart> Maybe we can promote some meetings as support-friendly when 
we get a better venue?
20:01:33 <not_found> Braggart, sure... we can do anything we put our minds too
20:01:41 <Braggart> not_found: Don't look at me. I never figured out Twitter.
20:01:58 <not_found> #agreed not_found to create ubuntu-ae twitter account
20:02:02 <not_found> anyone like G+|
20:02:05 <not_found> ?
20:02:11 <not_found> how about linkedin?
20:02:11 <Ragesh> we will create alla
20:02:19 <Ragesh> *all
20:02:26 <rverrips> I know there was a Linkedin page - Silvu created that ...
20:02:27 <Braggart> LinkedIn already exists, it was done by Silviu, unless I'm 
much miustaken.
20:02:35 <not_found> Braggart, k cool.
20:02:38 <Ragesh> twitter, linkedin, g+
20:02:49 <not_found> Ragesh, you will create ?
20:02:56 <Ragesh> ok
20:02:59 <not_found> need some accountable peeps
20:03:01 <Ragesh> I  will
20:03:02 <Braggart> Before we get into social network circles, can anyone 
explain how it will help again?
20:03:16 <not_found> #agreed Ragesh to create G+, twitter etc accounts
20:03:26 <not_found> Braggart, same way meetup has.
20:03:36 <not_found> made people find us and communicate
20:03:50 <not_found> #topic open floor
20:03:50 <rverrips> and help direct them to the IRC for support :-)
20:03:59 <not_found> k... floor open... discuss what you would like
20:04:14 <not_found> rverrips, if there are peeps in the channel ;)
20:04:39 <Braggart> What does open floor mean?
20:04:52 <rverrips> sorry, which channel?
20:05:27 <rverrips> Sorry not_found, got it now - Peeps in the IRC channel to 
support the millions on Facebook :-)
20:05:29 <not_found> talk about what ever for as long as you want Braggart ... 
no specific topic... if no-body has anything I will end the meeting
20:05:38 <not_found> rverrips, we have millions... cool
20:06:01 * not_found is hungry and more than an hour for IRC meeting is too long
20:06:03 <rverrips> I'm thinking of developing a FBML that pulls our IRQ logs 
into the Facebook page :-)
20:06:10 <rverrips> +1 for closing the meeting
20:06:14 <Ragesh> what should be our twitter name??
20:06:21 <not_found> ubuntu-ae
20:06:25 <Ragesh> ok
20:06:29 <joseph_> also G+ name ?
20:06:33 <joey_> +1 for closing
20:06:35 <Ragesh> same??
20:06:37 <not_found> should try and stick to that as far as possible
20:06:44 <Braggart> Yes, Ragesh.
20:06:52 <not_found> #endmeeting