ForumAmbassadors

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list your nick here please so we know the colours :
ManiacMusician
ubuntu_demon / ubuntu_demon
Mike
PriceChild
jenda
TobySmithe
towsonu2003

== BoF agenda and discussion ==

 * Currently this spec is in drafting.
 * There will be another BOF about this on Thursday or Friday. Interested forum members should try to attend.
 * Many of the current comments are things that should actually be bullets, as they're valid points and ideas, not just comments. Before the next drafting, this should be amended. I'll work on it, so help me :)
 
 * the scope of forum ambassadors. done
 * line 226
 * walk through the draft and see whether anyone has input on something. summary done. rationale done. use cases done. scope done.
 * cleaning up the draft
 * anything else ?
 * ...
 * ...
 * ... ???
 * I think we're good to go
  - let's go :). Let's start with the scope now. It's currently at line 69

 
== Last agenda and discussion ==

 * go through unresolved issues
 * going through document and cleaning up the document
 * define tasks of Forum Ambassadors, discuss evaluating requests and give examples of things a FA could do
 * define criteria for Forum Ambassadors
 * defining tasks of Forum Ambassadors "leaders"
 * An example of "if you were a forum ambassador, what would you take to the devs today?" ie, what are the sorts of actual questions that would be asked. use cases ?
 * figuring out what people would do as a FA today.
 * go a bit more into evaluating forum users' requests
 * cleanup braindump
 * anything else ??
 
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This idea originated on the forums. It was originally by Aysiu but many people have contributed. The current discussion is here :
the forum thread : http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=1708930
We will create a forum section on ubuntuforums.org where people can request help of the Forum Ambassadors.
-sicofante: users should not "request help" from ambassadors. It should be made clear they're somewhat a link between users and devs.
We will create a team of Forum Ambassadors that connects to the developers to facilitate communication. We will use ambassadors to collect ideas, bugs and feedback from users. This team would probably connect to developers via a mailing list, with possibly some irc contact.

This idea originated on the forums. This idea was originally by Aysiu but many people have contributed to this spec. The current forum discussion is here : http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=278375
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 * Summary - Subforum on the forums where people have opinions and ideas. Make a team that connects to the developers to facilitate communication.
 * Use ambassadors to collect ideas,bugs and feedback from users.
 
TODO: improve the spec and make it more clear

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 * Right after Feisty's release there's a big thread on the forums about the breakage of a certain important package. Paul, a forum ambassador, contacts the maintainer of this package to let him know about this.

 * Karel, a forum user, creates a new thread with some nice workarounds for certain problems. Paul, a forum ambassador, discovers that a couple of these problems are unknown to the devs and encourages and assists forum users to report these problems as bugs.

 * Joe, a forum user, posts with annoyance at how a certain package is not compiled with options to perform something he wants, for example ipod support for a music app. The ambassador informs Joe he will pass on his request by filing a bug to the right package.

 * Traci, a Forums Ambassador, creates a thread asking for suggestions regarding ideas for improved usability, new things that don't ring very true with the users. Traci summarizes the discussion, filters out trivia and senseless complaints, and forwards the good ideas and suggestions to the developers in the following way : first create specs for these ideas, secondly send an e-mail to ubuntu-devel for discussion and thirdly attend the next UDS to discuss these specs. A developer sees these specs (or bug reports), and can act quicker with the information presented to them, without having to waste time browsing the forums.
 * Right after Feisty's release there's a big thread on the forums about the breakage of a certain important package. Paul, a Forum Ambassador, contacts the maintainer of this package to let him know about this.

 * Karel, a forum user, creates a new thread with some nice workarounds for certain problems. Paul, a Forum Ambassador, discovers that a couple of these problems are unknown to the devs and encourages and assists forum users to report these problems as bugs, including a link to the forum thread in explanation.

 * Joe, a forum user, posts with annoyance at how a certain package is not compiled with options to perform something he wants, for example ipod support for a music app. The ambassador informs Joe he will pass on his request by filing a bug to the right package, or gives him the appropriate links and guidance to file the bug himself. This is training up future possible FA's, or teaching people how to get their opinions heard.

 * A month before (the next) UDS, Traci, a Forums Ambassador, creates a thread asking for suggestions regarding ideas for improved usability, new things that don't ring very true with the users. Traci summarizes the discussion, filters out trivia and senseless complaints, and forwards the good ideas and suggestions to the developers in the following way : first create specs or wishlist-bugs for these ideas, secondly send an e-mail to ubuntu-devel for discussion (and ubuntu-motu for universe packages)and thirdly some FA try to get sponsorship and attend the next UDS to discuss these specs. A developer sees these specs (or bug reports), and can act quicker with the information presented to them, without having to waste time browsing the forums.
 (big feature bugs should instead go to upstream bugtrackers)
 
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 * This spec is focused on creating a Forum Ambassadors team which will provide a bi-directional communication interface between the forum users and the developers.  * This spec is focused on creating a Forum Ambassadors team which will provide a bi-directional communication interface between the forum users and the Ubuntu developers.
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 * The focus of this team should *not* be to try to educate every new user, although the team would assist communication between forums users and developers. This spec is *not* about creating a team to help new users. We have a team for that.  * The focus of this team should *not* be to try to educate every new user, although the team would assist in communication between forums users and developers. This spec is *not* about creating a team to help new users. We have a team for that.
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   * This spec is *not* about creating documentation.
 
 * Initially intended for ubuntuforums.org. In the future other Ubuntu forums can possibly learn from us or possibly even join us. For now expanding to other forums is out of scope.
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 --- Some parts in the design are is probably outside of scope because the scope was ill-defined before
 
    * define tasks of Forum Ambassadors, discuss evaluating requests and give examples of things a FA could do
  - see use cases
  - Some people are comfortable collecting information. (Collector)
  - Some people are comfortable diseminating information. (Disseminators)
  - File bugs (Good bugs, not just follow either, is it a feature or a bug? They need to be able to contact people who are willing to contribute.) (''see'' [:LoCoTeamsUDSMVSpecs/CommunityBugReporting:CommunityBugReporting])
  - Forum Ambassadors should be active mainly in the Forum Ambassadors subforum. In this way most of what they do is transparent to the forum users. They could also submit interesting stuff to Ubuntu Weekly News in interesting cases. When we grow bigger we might report in a more official manner to the Forums Council.
    
 * define criteria for Forum Ambassadors Members
  - respect and follow CoC (Code of Conduct)
  - amount of time dedicating to it *entirely* up to yourself
  - if stepping down then stepping down gracefully
  - willingness to learn and enthusiasm
  - shown to be capable and respectful in interacting with community members on forums
  - having a sense of what is feasible and what isnt. Having a vague idea of how things work is also useful.
  - if time available then be willing to go to UDS if sponsored
  - Forum Ambassadors should have a rough idea about what happens on k/x/ed ubuntu-devel (pick the one you like)
  - ability to filter requests from users (support request (let staff move it), bug report, feature bug, spec, obvious idea,..)
 
 * defining tasks of Forum Ambassadors leaders
  - being a regular Forum Ambassador
  - making sure FA live up to the criteria
  - solving inter-FA-team problems if any
  - communicating with forum staff if needed
 
 * define criteria of Forum Ambassadors leaders
  - the same as for FA
  - respect and follow LCoC (LeadershipCodeofConduct)
  - (extra) community experience helps
  - extra criteria up to the forum admins
  - appointed by forum admins
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  * To encourage and assist forum users in bug reporting,writing specs and launchpad.
  ---Remove this part? -->, wiki usage and other community tools.
    --- outside of scope ? I would like your input
     -Yes, I think so. indifferent
      -- I added writing specs which is inside of the scope IMHO.
        
  * Communicating ideas to developers (gists and zeitgeists)
  * To encourage and assist forum users in bug reporting,writing specs and launchpad. Point them to docs and help them if that doesn't suffice. If there are no docs, ambassadors should help them along; and let someone of the docteam know the docs are missing.
  * Communicating ideas to developers (gists and zeitgeists (trends))
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  * Integration of projects that start on the forums into the distribution. (Inviting people into the greater community.)
  * Involve other active members of the forums that don't yet contribute to the organization. (Get the active members to join the project)

 * Things ambassadors will be doing
  * Some people are comfortable collecting information. (Collector)
  * Some people are comfortable diseminating information. (Disseminators)
  * Triaging people and volunteers (being in touch with the interests of users)
  * File bugs (Good bugs, not just follow either, is it a feature or a bug? They need to be able to contact people who are willing to contribute.) (''see'' [:LoCoTeamsUDSMVSpecs/CommunityBugReporting:CommunityBugReporting])
  * Forum Ambassadors should be active mainly in the Forum Ambassadors subforum. In this way most of what they do is transparent to the forum users. They could also submit interesting stuff to Ubuntu Weekly News in interesting cases. When we grow bigger we might report in a more official manner to the Forums Council.
  * Integration of software projects that start on the forums into the distribution. (Inviting people into the greater community.)
  * Involve active forum members who know what they are doing to help out with bugs (reporting,triaging). (Get the active members to join the project)
 
 * When users should come to us regarding specs : in the one month timeslot before the next UDS
  
 * Define types of requests (FA will have to (learn to) recognize which of these it is) :
  - support request => report to forum staff. forum staff will move them somewhere else
  - small feature bugs such as "package X needs to be compiled with option Y") => report as wishlist/feature bug to package X. refer user to documentation. help reporting bug when needed.
  - big feature bugs against some package => should probably go upstream
  - new ideas possibly suitable for specs => refer to documentation about writing new specs. help when needed (for example suggest a gobby session with interested people)
  - obvious ideas => gently explain the user that this is an obvious idea and therefor not worth reporting to the developers (they are swimming in bug reports and email already)
  - prioritizing some spec (users might feel something is very important while developers might think it's less important) => A discussion thread with poll is probably the way to go here.
  - unclear what user wants => more information needed from user
  
 * Define types of other relevant information :
   - Communicate what users like in other distros
   - "I've stopped using Ubuntu because XXX is, or works better, in Some Other Distro" <-- high priority
   - Communicating ideas to developers (gists and zeitgeists (trends))
   - what specs users feel are important
   - what general direction users feel the next release should emphasis on
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   * We would like to jumpstart this new Forum Ambassadors team with a small set of some interested people such as interested forum staff and interested people in the FA threads. We should encourage these people (who qualify for the criteria) to nominate themselves. The final decision of who gets on this team should be made by the FC or admins.
  -- TODO the joining criteria need to be defined
  -- but we agree on this bullet point right ?

 * This document is only a draft. The final implementation is up to the admins and Forum Ambassador Leaders (appointed by the admins).
 
 * The FA will mostly use ubuntu-devel when communicating with developers. The FA can't flood ubuntu-devel. The FA will have to make sure the email they send is really really useful. In the beginning they will discuss with eachother before sending an email to ubuntu-devel. The FA will slowly learn how to communicate best with the devs.
 
 * We have defined some criteria that have (at least) to be present in Forum Ambassadors and Forum Ambassador Leaders. The admins should appoint one or two volunteers to be Forum Ambassador Leaders. Forum users can (privately or publicly) volunteer themselves to become Forum Ambassador. Forum Ambassador Team Leaders can suggest new candidate FA members to the forum admins. The final decision for appointing new FA members is up to the forum admins.
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 * When the FA runs for a little while and someone (who qualifies for the criteria) wants to join the current FA team can advice the FC or admins whether they would like this person in the team. The final decision should be made by the FC or admins.
 * Rather like MOTU mentors?
 * Everyone who puts himself forward and meets the criteria will be considered as a candidate to be member of the Forum Ambassadors Team.
  - UbuntuDemon : we have to write out the criteria like : following the CoC, being an active member of the forums and having showed capable of respectful behaviour, having some technical insight and be willing to learn
 - everybody happy with this ? let's define the criteria later--yup, good idea. thats why i marked it as a comment for now
  - towsonu2003 : just listing myself as candidate :)
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 * Create mailing list for Ambassadors
 * Define types of relevant information : bugs, specs and ideas, priority of specs as felt by the forum users.
 * Document HOWTO be an ambassador
 * Create special forum section dedicated to make it easy for forum users to contact Forum Ambassadors. Communication between forum users and FA should primarily happen in this forum section.
 * The FA team should start small (about 5-7 depending on the amount of capable volunteers) and slowly increase in size.
 * Create Document HOWTO be an ambassador
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 * set criteria that we want to see from members
 * How to file a good bug report
 * this ties in with this spec about documentation to report bugs : https://features.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/community-bug-reporting
 * Submit submittor to bug report.
 * Create special forum section dedicated to make it easy for forum users to contact Forum Ambassadors
 * Two way street. Developers and forum users.
 * Forum Staff and Forum Ambassadors are two seperate things. But it's possible for a forum user to be both. Some Forum Ambassadors might make good Forum Staff. Some Forum Staff might make good Forum Ambassadors.
 * Set of criteria of contributions.
 * It's important that people know that they don't have to be developers to talk on a developer level - it's not like the developers are unapproachable, nor that they need to be talked to in a weird language - they do understand day to day English. I suspect there are a lot of people who think "I cant do this, I'm not skilled enough to." If you have a reasonable knowledge of what is feasible and isn't, we need you!
 * It's also important that we don't nagg too much about obvious stuff. This takes too much time of the developers.
 * We have to make sure we can post to ubuntu-devel , edubuntu-devel and kubuntu-devel.
  * Maybe being subscribed to one of k/x/ubuntu-devel should be a requirement? --towsonu2003 11.26.2006
 * regarding Kubuntu : Jonathan Ridell suggested to have some FA member come to the Kubuntu Council meeting and report there.
  * Let's make this more general: Ambassadors should (whenever they can) participate in Community Council meetings
 * expand to other forums
  * localization: ambassadors that are part of localization teams should be advised to keep track of what's going on in that part of the world :) for example, a Turkish localization group member Ambassador should track the forum at ubuntu-tr.com --towsonu2003 11.26.2006
         
 * FA don't need specific tasks. forum moderators don't have specific tasks and this works out nicely. Let's try to the same dynamic approach for FA also.
 * We need nice documentation : "How to file a good bug report". This ties in with this spec about documentation to report bugs : https://features.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/community-bug-reporting Writing our own docs is out of the scope of this spec.
 * Submit submittor to bug report.
 * Forum Staff and Forum Ambassadors are two separate things. But it's possible for a forum user to be both. Some Forum Ambassadors might make good Forum Staff. Some Forum Staff might make good Forum Ambassadors.
 * It's important that potential Forum ambassadors know that they don't have to be developers to talk on a developer level - it's not like the developers are unapproachable, nor that they need to be talked to in a weird language - they do understand day to day English. I suspect there are a lot of people who think "I cant do this, I'm not skilled enough to." If you have a reasonable knowledge of what is feasible and isn't, we need you!
 * (potential) Forum Ambassadors don't have to be afraid to talk to developers. They will gradually learn what kind of information is of most interest to the developers. Forum Ambassadors should try to filter out obvious and useless ideas. Forum Ambassadors should try to keep the number of emails to ubuntu-devel low since developers are already drowning in bugreports and email.
 * It's also important that we don't nagg too much about obvious stuff. This takes too much time of the developers. Explain why it's obvious in a gentle and decent way.(example obvious and useless idea : backporting a feisty kernel to dapper)
 * We have to make sure we can post to ubuntu-devel, edubuntu-devel, kubuntu-devel and xubuntu-devel (the new team will ask Jono Bacon).
    ubuntu_demon : AFAIK only ubuntu-devel is moderated currently by Jono Bacon.
 * We should try to have at least one FA at every (Kubuntu/Community) council meeting and report there (briefly). (idea by Jonathan Ridell)
 * Maybe FA should automatically be subscribed to new specs at the next UDS ?
 * Priorities poll during the 1 month timeslot before UDS to help define the direction of the next Ubuntu Release. For example : [bling,multimedia,server hardware support, desktop hardware support,laptop hardware support,security&stability,easier/better package management, bleeding edge stuff]
 
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 * ambassadors + dev teams should know each other
 * ambassadors should know what's going on (#ubuntu-devel, ubuntu-devel, mailinglist, developer forum section)
 * developers should post to an ambassadors mailing lists their plans to implement stuff before implementing. see https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2006-November/022702.html --towsonu2003 11.26.2006
 * when a new spec is opened, or when an existing spec's status changes, the mailing list should get an email about that change --towsonu2003 11.26.2006
 * Forum Ambassadors and Ubuntu developers should know about each others existence and can find each other on launchpad
 * Forum Ambassadors should know what's going on (devel mailinglists, developer forum section, FA forum section)
 * posts in ubuntu-devel, kubuntu-devel,xubuntu-devel,edubuntu-devel, ubuntu-motu and the new FA forum section are readable for everyone
 * report to Ubuntu Weekly and ubuntu-devel on an irregular basis (maybe regular later)
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 * wiki.ubuntu.com/ForumAmbassadors for full/old discussion.
 
 * What do other distros do regarding ambassadors ?

 * Need feedback from developers on what they would like to see in this spec.
 ubuntu_demon : I will post to my blog (goes to planet.ubuntu.com) / on ubuntu-devel about this spec to try whether we can get some useful input.

* request launchpad feature to somehow represent bugreporter and "user who experiences bug" ???
    ubuntu_demon : Sometimes the bug reporter is not the person who suffers from the bug but merely the person reporting it. Launchpad doesn't have a way of reflecting this. IMHO it would be nice if we could report bugs for others without looking like us suffering from it.
    ubuntu_demon : I will move this to unresolved issues for now. I might file a bug for this :).
    PriceChild: I don't think that this is in the spirit of bug reporting. Also, it would be a pain due to forums and Launchpad not being integrated. The initial reporter wouldn't have an account.
    ubuntu_demon : Launchpad and the Forums will become integrated. I hope that we will soon see a shared login. Right now when my girlfriend has a problem I have to report it and it seems to be my problem instead of hers. (if my girlfriend were a forum user it would be especially nice to link to her support request on the forums)
    ubuntu_demon : let's leave it unresolved for now.
 
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                   - PriceChild : I REALLY like the idea of one name for all bugs from the forums As. - That would really show what we can do.                    - PriceChild : I REALLY like the idea of one name for all bugs from the forums as That would really show what we can do.
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 * Need feedback from developers on what they would like to see in this spec.
  ''- Hobbsee : Devs probably need to wait for the forum half to get more organised before we can say much about it. However, we can try to help point out what is feasible and what isn't''
   ''-ManiacMusician : I think everything in this spec is pretty reasonable; especially since most of the work is not being done by the developers. They basically just need to agree that they want to hear users' opinions. On the forums themselves, it'll be the job of the ambassadors to weed out the unfeasible. ''
    "-Hobbsee - Yes, and figure out how the communication will happen. -Hobbsee''
     "-ManiacMusician : I think an Ambassadors mailing list would be reasonable. People who care or are integral can subscribe, and the rest don't have to.''
 * need feedback from Forum users
 * Centralized team leader or should each team member have a point of contact.
 * I, UbuntuDemon, have been doing some talking with some devs and stuff. I'm going to do some informal talking about this Forum Ambassadors stuff to developers. I have been getting good feedback.

 * Central point of contact? Or distributed by team? How do you get decent coverage?
   ''-ManiacMusician: I feel it should be a combination. A central team that coordinates the movements of all the teams, and then separate teams of 3 to 5 people that cover special areas or branch out in some way''
 * Existing staff too busy to be ambassadors? ''-ManiacMusician : For the most part, yes''

 * no leaders ? one or two leaders ? (depends on the role of the FA leaders)
 * we need to clarify what exactly the FA leader(s) should do
 * need to clarify appointment process. Maybe something like : people can nominate themselves and be appointed by FC.

 * The issue of electing forum ambassadors is still open. We can't accept every volunteer...it's a demanding job, and we can't afford to have people that may quit after a little while of doing it. it's a team-based effort. We have to formulate a way to accept members without being too elitist
  ''- PriceChild : Who has final say on Ambassadors? - Forums Staff? Admins or FC?''
    ''- Hobbsee : Forum council, i guess. Which will mostly be the forums staff, i thought?''
     ''- PriceChild : Nope, starts with 3 admins, will change. How about the entire staff team with final decision by FC?''
     '' - Hobbsee : Sounds sane to me. That's what we do for kubuntu, but it's not my decision"
       ''-ManiacMusician : Not sure how I feel about external influences in this. I was kind of hoping to keep it inside the forums, because that's where the community is...those are the people that will have to be represented and they'll probably want to know or have a say in what's going on. What would the FC know about users on the forum?
        ''- PriceChild: Forums Staff & FC are all in forums. FC HAVE to be a good member of the forums to be selected. i.e. admins to start with, maybe with the most experienced staff.''
        ''- Hobbsee : Seeing as the FC is made up of all/mostly staff - a lot. No one's out to get anyone else.''
         ''-ManiacMusician : Didn't mean to imply that. Just wondering about the what the reaction will be at the forums.''
          ''- Hobbsee : Presumably it'll be made very clear on the forums who the members of the FC are, and so users can easily see that they're well known forum people.''
          
   * Report our team's work and achievements. Some of this might be useful for ubuntu-devel other stuff for Ubuntu Weekly News. We 'strive' for reports to Ubuntu Weekly News monthly (maybe weekly once we get up to speed).
  * Report on the team's work and achievements over a timeframe... monthly? - I don't think this is necessary, because the whole process is transparent. And we will be talking to the dev's on a regular schedule anyways (once every week, or every two weeks maybe), we could just post up the reports that we had made from our data-gathering.
   - I think its very important (at least initially) to be able to have a list of what has been accomplished so far, a way to measure whether we think the team is working as well as we think it should.
    -Okay; so can't we just post the reports that we send to the developers? they'll be fine, I think, though maybe a little long. But anyone that's interested can bother reading a little bit.
       ---- We should just post some stuff to ubuntu-devel once in a while. Other stuff might be nice for Ubuntu Weekly News. IMHO we don't have to define timeframe.
          -No, we don't have to, but it makes for better organization. We gather stuff for a little w hile, and then get it organized and sent by a certain time. It keeps people on track rather than letting the project get sidetracked and lazy. lol, this might get turned into an unresolved issue as well.
              ---- So let's 'strive' to report monthly to Ubuntu Weekly News ?
                - I wasn't talking about reporting...not in that sense anyways. I mean, we will be gathering inforation according to user feedback right? So, as we do that, we should keep it organized such as how many occurrences there were of a certain suggestion/how important it is in the eyes of the users, and tcompile that in time for a deadline to e-mail/send /discuss with developer teams.
                     --- IMHO FA team members who are willing to make such stats are welcome and this might be *really useful*. But it might be a lot of work and it's not something I *personally* would like to work on. IMHO we *shouldn't require* this from new FA members.
 ----- let's move this to unresolved issues okay ? -yeah. It's an unformulated idea. Are you going to move the added bullet point as well? yeah
 
                         -ubuntu_demon : IMHO it's better than not seeeing the username of the user with the bug at all.
                         - ubuntu_demon : let's leave it unresolved for now.
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 * offtopic : all Ubuntu forums linking to eachother (for example forums for different languages)
 * bi-directional
 * communicate / relay ideas : gisting + zeitgeist??)
 * prioritization of specs,etc
 * What do other distros do regarding ambassadors ?
 * Communicate what users like in other distros
   ''-ManiacMusician : this is a priority''
 * file + follow up good bugs / inital triage / judgement calls
 * integration of code into community + core distro/repos
 * invite forum members into Ubuntu project + recognition of forums contributions
 * use launchpad
 * "I've stopped using Ubuntu because XXX is, or works better, in Some Other Distro" <-- high priority

== Future work ==
  * Integration of other forums (all the LoCo forums and other languages). How do we get their feedback integrated? (Tough, this will be another spec).
  * Ambassadors from other forums?
   * sicofante: Tag threads from any subforum and create a virtual subforum that contains issues relevant to developers. This is the whole idea: The subforum would be created as a virtual subforum via the use of tags. It will be visible in the main forums page by creating a direct link to a tag search and by using the forumdisplay option for tags searches in [WWW] Zoints vBulletin add-on. Instead of having a dedicated "real" subforum, this approach has the following advantages:
    - sicofante:No crossposting needed. The OP might want to keep the thread as it was originally intended (a help demand, a complaint, a request, whatever) and just tag it so the ambassadors can use it to show the issue to the devs.
      ubuntu_demon : so the FA might have to go through a big thread to find the actual request. IMHO this is a disadvantage.
    - sicofante:The OP might not intend its post to be used by ambassadors but the mod still believe it would be useful, so the thread could go on "as is" and still serve the purpose of showing to the devs a particular point.
    - sicofante:Where the thread originally started will bring useful information to devs, mods and ambassadors. For instance, threads tagged from the beta testing forums are quite different from those coming from "absolute beginners".
    - sicofante:Ambassadors might "de-tag" some threads to prevent abuse. This might help the ambassadors getting a cleaner look at what they have to say to the devs.
    - ubuntu_demon : IMHO users should make the concious effort to go to the FA. This will make the amount of work a FA has to do manageable and it will mean that only people who actually want help with their spec/bugreport come to us. The FA is not for helping with support requests.
    - ubuntu_demon : forum staff can move threads to the FA forum section when they feel this is useful/necessary
    - sicofante: asking users for that effort is OK, but that will leave out issues that users simply complaint about in other forums.
    - ubuntu_demon : that's where polls come in. Also FA can start discussion threads in the FA forum or developer subforum to get valuable input.
    - PriceChild: The tags search doesnt' work like a normal forum, newer posts don't bump topics to the top. We'd have to try and keep it as clean as possible once the issue is dealt with. - I would prefer a separate forum with new discussion threads and simply a link to the original post because of this.


== Future work ==
  * Expanding to other forums
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 * Bug Reporting:
  * "Someone on the forums find a bug, want a way to quickly get that information to developers."
    Mako: It would be nice if people who represent others know how to file good detailed bug reports.
  * Someone needs to collect information from the forums, it's unreasonable to expect all users to register with launchpad, etc. etc.
  * Very often forum users post their opinions (requests, problems, desires, etc.) in the "Ubuntu Development" section of the forum thinking that the developers would see their posts there.
   * quote from http://ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=179
    "Please note developers are not very active here. If you wish to file a bug report please do so here." (here is link to https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+filebug

 * Asking good questions / good documentation
  - PriceChild: There's a good thread on the forums, i believe by aysiu. -Is this part of our implementation?
  - UbuntuDemon : I think we should make at least three documents : 1) HOWTO Forum Ambassador .. howto help, what to do and stuff 2) some addon to jono's spec on forums specific stuff (for example things that forum users tend to do wrong .. we should communicate it back to jono when this happens ofcourse.3) when to approach a forum ambassador. Developers made it clear to me that they like the idea but they wouldn't like to see us spamming them with every idea some user has. Some are really obvious .. others are more suitable to post as a feature bug ... we can help users with this ofcourse. We should educate users a little bit on what type of stuff is interesting for developers.
    -ManiacMusician : Of course we wouldn't spam them. It's our job to filter out the feedback we're investigating. It's okay to educate users but the fact is, most of them won't read. And, I thought the idea was for them to write what they wanted the developers to know.
    - UbuntuDemon : All I wanted to say was we should make it clear what kind of things developers are interested in so 1) we can do a bit of pre-filtering and 2) users become less dissapointed if we don't act on their wishes
   - UbuntuDemon : IMHO we can put it under future work. under a bullet called documentation
    - UbuntuDemon : what do you think ?
     -ManiacMusician : It's a good idea. Definitely too much work for us right now though, so we do need to put it innn the future work section like you said
       - UbuntuDemon : No IMHO it's part of implementation. It's not that we can't start without it though :)
      - PriceChild : I'm thinking it'd be better to educate what is NOT wanted by the devs.
        - UbuntuDemon : that might be easier :). nice idea. But we should also use Use Cases to show what might be interesting for devs.
     - UbuntuDemon :IMHO we should ask Aysiu to help us write the HOWTO Forum Ambassador. IMHO we should also invite him to the team.
      - ManiacMusician : He has already publicly declined to be on the team. But I'm sure he would be willing to help write the HOWTO.
      -UbuntuDemon : he publicly declined but the spec has progressed and is somewhat different from his initial idea
       - ManiacMusician : Well the reason for his declination was that he said he wouldn't be able to be impartial like Ambassadors should be and that it wasa too huge a commitment
       - UbuntuDemon :IMHO everyone should decide how much time to spend on this themselves. We should make this clear in the HOWTO.
         - UbuntuDemon : we can slowly grow the FA team. Lots of people dedicating a bit of time is a lot of time together.
  -UbuntuDemon :let's tag these comments and move them to discussion. Okay ?

 * Mike Basinger: While I agree communication with the between ubuntuforums and the developers is very important, what about about communication between the ubuntuforums and other forums, Loco Teams, IRC, etc... This document should be design as being a guide in mind, to create other ambassadors groups in the future.
  -Good point. The focus of this project is to create a team for ubuntuforums, but we should leave the team open-ended so that if other forums do start their own teams, there will be a "Ambasadors Central" thatkeeps track of all the teams, organizes the data that comes in, etc.
     - this is again about the scope of the document. *personally* IMHO it's hard enough to get the communication/information flow between the forums and the developers going allright. Let's concentrate on that first and let's generate other teams/specs later.
       -right; I'm just saying that we should leave the team open-ended. Design it so that there is a central team that keeps track/organizes activities. We don't have to do anything extra.
         - We can model other teams/specs after this team. But IMHO focus on the forums-devs integration first. Just my opinion.
          -I was anticipating what would happen when there were 20 ambassadors teams. Would the devs communicate with all of them, or say "to hell with it?"?
   - Well the only real big ubuntuforums is us and maybe kubuntuforums. But maybe other ambassadors teams can join us on launchpad since we made some breakthroughs today regarding forums-launchpad integration. IMHO this belongs in future work regarding getting other FA teams to join us. And outside of scope regarding Loco teams (unless they have forums).




 - any comments / input on the summary ?
- going once, twice,...
hang on.... should the ambassadors scan the forums themselves; or just this flooded sub-forum?
 - I think to begin with we should concetrate on our subforum. if we find that people are not posting to it a ot, or that we have a lot of free time on our hands as a team, we can start thininking about an efficient way to scan the forums; namely the "taging" threads idea that came up.
  What about the report to ambassadors button?
   -A good idea as well. I don't know how implementable it is...someone would probably have to code it, I assume.
   - Couldn't be to hard to code... very similar to "report bad post"
                - I don't like the idea. This might encourage users to use this for all their problems. I already get a lot of people adding me on IM for random help.
                 -True, but we won't know until we try. Pretty much everything we do here is on a trial-and-error basis. If it doesn't work, the feature will be taken away.
                 -Good point. I think if we make them make the effort, they'll be less likely to "spam".
                    - yeah *personally* I would like to do this with serious forum users first. Not with desperate new people who crosspost,add random people on IM, bump threads like crazy and click everywhere.
                   - how do you mean?
                      - we could start a new team to help absolute beginners if we don't have one already. Outside the scope of this spec
                                    - Sounds like we will need a lot of users for this...
                                         - we have one... in the pipeline. Appliations have been made, just haven't chosen leaders yet.
                                          -Yeah, it's outside what we intend to do. -ok
                                    - The sumary is perfectly alright. Concise, to the point.
           - Indeed, these should all be moved to implementation, right...
    - The forum ambassadors are welcome to do work on other forums. But IMHO we should start with this specific subforum and concentrate on doing useful communication with the devs and make use cases / HOWTOs based on our experiences
    
    Both true... However, what if users' posts in the subforum are irrelevant?...
 - Wel, we plan to have documentation on the kind of input we need. irrelevant posts will be ignored or asked for clarification/correction.
 Just thinking time here...
 
 
    - loco team forums are being made by ubuntu-geek, check out forums feedback
      - that's nice but then they can just join our FA team if there are users in there that are interested in improving the forums-devs communication.

Please check the status of this specification in Launchpad before editing it. If it is Approved, contact the Assignee or another knowledgeable person before making changes.

Last agenda and discussion

  • go through unresolved issues
  • going through document and cleaning up the document
  • define tasks of Forum Ambassadors, discuss evaluating requests and give examples of things a FA could do
  • define criteria for Forum Ambassadors
  • defining tasks of Forum Ambassadors "leaders"
  • An example of "if you were a forum ambassador, what would you take to the devs today?" ie, what are the sorts of actual questions that would be asked. use cases ?
  • figuring out what people would do as a FA today.
  • go a bit more into evaluating forum users' requests
  • cleanup braindump
  • anything else ??

Summary

This document specifies how to improve communication (bugs, ideas, forum users feedback) between the forums and the developers. The idea is to elect Forum Ambassadors and/or have a special forum for this to help to improve communication.

We will create a forum section on ubuntuforums.org where people can request help of the Forum Ambassadors. -sicofante: users should not "request help" from ambassadors. It should be made clear they're somewhat a link between users and devs. We will create a team of Forum Ambassadors that connects to the developers to facilitate communication. We will use ambassadors to collect ideas, bugs and feedback from users. This team would probably connect to developers via a mailing list, with possibly some irc contact.

This idea originated on the forums. This idea was originally by Aysiu but many people have contributed to this spec. The current forum discussion is here : http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=278375

Forum Ambassadors might become a team like : http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=289810

Rationale

Currently there's little communication between the forum users and the developers. The forums can be a great resource for developers that are looking for bugs, testers, or improvement of useablity -- but not in a way that they have to spend too much time browsing the forums. The idea is to bring the forums to the developers with this team.

The proposed Forum Ambassadors Team will improve information flow between the forums and the developers. This information flow will be bi-directional.

It's not practical for the developers to spend much time monitoring the forums. The amount selected by the ambassadors team for the developers should be a lot easier to handle than the huge amount of posts on the forums. Instead of waiting for developers to come to the forums let's take a more active approach and create this team.

It also provides a sense of entitlement to the users at Ubuntu Forums. They will feel represented, involved, and perhaps be able to take a larger part in making Ubuntu better. True this is definetely good for improving the integration and communication of the forums with the rest of the community.

The users often find it hard to reach the developers, with notices like "the developers don't browser here" strung all over the place in bold font. They are told to "file a bug", post to the mailing list, and this may seem daunting in this radically different world. As well as making it easier for the developers to reach the users, the spec tries to make the users able to reach the developers.

Use cases

  • Right after Feisty's release there's a big thread on the forums about the breakage of a certain important package. Paul, a Forum Ambassador, contacts the maintainer of this package to let him know about this.
  • Karel, a forum user, creates a new thread with some nice workarounds for certain problems. Paul, a Forum Ambassador, discovers that a couple of these problems are unknown to the devs and encourages and assists forum users to report these problems as bugs, including a link to the forum thread in explanation.
  • Joe, a forum user, posts with annoyance at how a certain package is not compiled with options to perform something he wants, for example ipod support for a music app. The ambassador informs Joe he will pass on his request by filing a bug to the right package, or gives him the appropriate links and guidance to file the bug himself. This is training up future possible FA's, or teaching people how to get their opinions heard.
  • A month before (the next) UDS, Traci, a Forums Ambassador, creates a thread asking for suggestions regarding ideas for improved usability, new things that don't ring very true with the users. Traci summarizes the discussion, filters out trivia and senseless complaints, and forwards the good ideas and suggestions to the developers in the following way : first create specs or wishlist-bugs for these ideas, secondly send an e-mail to ubuntu-devel for discussion (and ubuntu-motu for universe packages)and thirdly some FA try to get sponsorship and attend the next UDS to discuss these specs. A developer sees these specs (or bug reports), and can act quicker with the information presented to them, without having to waste time browsing the forums. (big feature bugs should instead go to upstream bugtrackers)

Scope

  • This spec is focused on creating a Forum Ambassadors team which will provide a bi-directional communication interface between the forum users and the Ubuntu developers.

* The only purpose of this project is to gather feedback and input from the users and convey it directly to the developers, and to convey the intentions/thoughts of the developers back to the users. The Ambassadors team's responsibilities will not extend beyond that.

  • The focus of this team should *not* be to try to educate every new user, although the team would assist in communication between forums users and developers. This spec is *not* about creating a team to help new users. We have a team for that.
  • The Forum Ambassadors will also *not* be responsible for resolving inter-user and user/staff grievances. We have a resolution centre for that (Also FC and CC in the future).
  • This spec is *not* about improving the documentation flow between forums and wiki. We can use another team for this. Both teams can learn from eachother.
  • This spec is *not* about creating documentation.
  • Initially intended for ubuntuforums.org. In the future other Ubuntu forums can possibly learn from us or possibly even join us. For now expanding to other forums is out of scope.

Design

  • define tasks of Forum Ambassadors, discuss evaluating requests and give examples of things a FA could do
    • - see use cases - Some people are comfortable collecting information. (Collector) - Some people are comfortable diseminating information. (Disseminators)

      - File bugs (Good bugs, not just follow either, is it a feature or a bug? They need to be able to contact people who are willing to contribute.) (see [:LoCoTeamsUDSMVSpecs/CommunityBugReporting:CommunityBugReporting]) - Forum Ambassadors should be active mainly in the Forum Ambassadors subforum. In this way most of what they do is transparent to the forum users. They could also submit interesting stuff to Ubuntu Weekly News in interesting cases. When we grow bigger we might report in a more official manner to the Forums Council.

  • define criteria for Forum Ambassadors Members
    • - respect and follow CoC (Code of Conduct) - amount of time dedicating to it *entirely* up to yourself - if stepping down then stepping down gracefully - willingness to learn and enthusiasm - shown to be capable and respectful in interacting with community members on forums - having a sense of what is feasible and what isnt. Having a vague idea of how things work is also useful. - if time available then be willing to go to UDS if sponsored - Forum Ambassadors should have a rough idea about what happens on k/x/ed ubuntu-devel (pick the one you like) - ability to filter requests from users (support request (let staff move it), bug report, feature bug, spec, obvious idea,..)
  • defining tasks of Forum Ambassadors leaders
    • - being a regular Forum Ambassador - making sure FA live up to the criteria - solving inter-FA-team problems if any - communicating with forum staff if needed
  • define criteria of Forum Ambassadors leaders
    • - the same as for FA

      - respect and follow LCoC (LeadershipCodeofConduct) - (extra) community experience helps - extra criteria up to the forum admins - appointed by forum admins

  • Goals to achieve
    • To encourage and assist forum users in bug reporting,writing specs and launchpad. Point them to docs and help them if that doesn't suffice. If there are no docs, ambassadors should help them along; and let someone of the docteam know the docs are missing.
    • Communicating ideas to developers (gists and zeitgeists (trends))
    • Two way communication. (Bidirectional)

    • Integration of software projects that start on the forums into the distribution. (Inviting people into the greater community.)
    • Involve active forum members who know what they are doing to help out with bugs (reporting,triaging). (Get the active members to join the project)
  • When users should come to us regarding specs : in the one month timeslot before the next UDS
  • Define types of requests (FA will have to (learn to) recognize which of these it is) :
    • - support request => report to forum staff. forum staff will move them somewhere else - small feature bugs such as "package X needs to be compiled with option Y") => report as wishlist/feature bug to package X. refer user to documentation. help reporting bug when needed. - big feature bugs against some package => should probably go upstream - new ideas possibly suitable for specs => refer to documentation about writing new specs. help when needed (for example suggest a gobby session with interested people) - obvious ideas => gently explain the user that this is an obvious idea and therefor not worth reporting to the developers (they are swimming in bug reports and email already) - prioritizing some spec (users might feel something is very important while developers might think it's less important) => A discussion thread with poll is probably the way to go here. - unclear what user wants => more information needed from user

  • Define types of other relevant information :
    • - Communicate what users like in other distros

      - "I've stopped using Ubuntu because XXX is, or works better, in Some Other Distro" <-- high priority - Communicating ideas to developers (gists and zeitgeists (trends)) - what specs users feel are important - what general direction users feel the next release should emphasis on

Implementation

  • This document is only a draft. The final implementation is up to the admins and Forum Ambassador Leaders (appointed by the admins).
  • The FA will mostly use ubuntu-devel when communicating with developers. The FA can't flood ubuntu-devel. The FA will have to make sure the email they send is really really useful. In the beginning they will discuss with eachother before sending an email to ubuntu-devel. The FA will slowly learn how to communicate best with the devs.
  • We have defined some criteria that have (at least) to be present in Forum Ambassadors and Forum Ambassador Leaders. The admins should appoint one or two volunteers to be Forum Ambassador Leaders. Forum users can (privately or publicly) volunteer themselves to become Forum Ambassador. Forum Ambassador Team Leaders can suggest new candidate FA members to the forum admins. The final decision for appointing new FA members is up to the forum admins.
  • Create Launchpad team for Ambassadors
  • Create special forum section dedicated to make it easy for forum users to contact Forum Ambassadors. Communication between forum users and FA should primarily happen in this forum section.
  • The FA team should start small (about 5-7 depending on the amount of capable volunteers) and slowly increase in size.
  • Create Document HOWTO be an ambassador
  • create ambassador team leaders
  • FA don't need specific tasks. forum moderators don't have specific tasks and this works out nicely. Let's try to the same dynamic approach for FA also.
  • We need nice documentation : "How to file a good bug report". This ties in with this spec about documentation to report bugs : https://features.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/community-bug-reporting Writing our own docs is out of the scope of this spec.

  • Submit submittor to bug report.
  • Forum Staff and Forum Ambassadors are two separate things. But it's possible for a forum user to be both. Some Forum Ambassadors might make good Forum Staff. Some Forum Staff might make good Forum Ambassadors.
  • It's important that potential Forum ambassadors know that they don't have to be developers to talk on a developer level - it's not like the developers are unapproachable, nor that they need to be talked to in a weird language - they do understand day to day English. I suspect there are a lot of people who think "I cant do this, I'm not skilled enough to." If you have a reasonable knowledge of what is feasible and isn't, we need you!
  • (potential) Forum Ambassadors don't have to be afraid to talk to developers. They will gradually learn what kind of information is of most interest to the developers. Forum Ambassadors should try to filter out obvious and useless ideas. Forum Ambassadors should try to keep the number of emails to ubuntu-devel low since developers are already drowning in bugreports and email.
  • It's also important that we don't nagg too much about obvious stuff. This takes too much time of the developers. Explain why it's obvious in a gentle and decent way.(example obvious and useless idea : backporting a feisty kernel to dapper)
  • We have to make sure we can post to ubuntu-devel, edubuntu-devel, kubuntu-devel and xubuntu-devel (the new team will ask Jono Bacon).
    • ubuntu_demon : AFAIK only ubuntu-devel is moderated currently by Jono Bacon.
  • We should try to have at least one FA at every (Kubuntu/Community) council meeting and report there (briefly). (idea by Jonathan Ridell)
  • Maybe FA should automatically be subscribed to new specs at the next UDS ?
  • Priorities poll during the 1 month timeslot before UDS to help define the direction of the next Ubuntu Release. For example : [bling,multimedia,server hardware support, desktop hardware support,laptop hardware support,security&stability,easier/better package management, bleeding edge stuff]

Evaluation

  • Forum Ambassadors and Ubuntu developers should know about each others existence and can find each other on launchpad
  • Forum Ambassadors should know what's going on (devel mailinglists, developer forum section, FA forum section)
  • posts in ubuntu-devel, kubuntu-devel,xubuntu-devel,edubuntu-devel, ubuntu-motu and the new FA forum section are readable for everyone
  • report to Ubuntu Weekly and ubuntu-devel on an irregular basis (maybe regular later)

Unresolved issues

  • wiki.ubuntu.com/ForumAmbassadors for full/old discussion.
  • What do other distros do regarding ambassadors ?
  • Need feedback from developers on what they would like to see in this spec. ubuntu_demon : I will post to my blog (goes to planet.ubuntu.com) / on ubuntu-devel about this spec to try whether we can get some useful input.

* request launchpad feature to somehow represent bugreporter and "user who experiences bug" ???

  • ubuntu_demon : Sometimes the bug reporter is not the person who suffers from the bug but merely the person reporting it. Launchpad doesn't have a way of reflecting this. IMHO it would be nice if we could report bugs for others without looking like us suffering from it. ubuntu_demon : I will move this to unresolved issues for now. I might file a bug for this :).

    PriceChild: I don't think that this is in the spirit of bug reporting. Also, it would be a pain due to forums and Launchpad not being integrated. The initial reporter wouldn't have an account. ubuntu_demon : Launchpad and the Forums will become integrated. I hope that we will soon see a shared login. Right now when my girlfriend has a problem I have to report it and it seems to be my problem instead of hers. (if my girlfriend were a forum user it would be especially nice to link to her support request on the forums) ubuntu_demon : let's leave it unresolved for now.

  • Whether to give credit for bug reports to users who discovered the bug or those who report it (namely the ambassadors).
    • -- we can solve this by reporting a bug to make it reflect both in launchpad.-You misunderstand. I wasn't proposing it as a a thing for discussion. We have a lot of comments on this, so let's delete the comments and leave the bullet, to save spaec and make it easier to read.
      • --- but do you agree we can solve it if malone reflects both the user affected and the FA who reported it ?

maniacmusician : As far as I'm concerned, this is still mostly an unresolved issue that could use furhter discussion LATER.


let's summarize/clean up the discussion then (but I don't have more time right now)

  • -- We probably need to file a bug to malone with a feature request.
    • we would want to be able to submit bugs for others and make clear that it's not our bug. Let's put this to unresolved issues if it's not there already.

      - ManiacMusician : I see. I don't think that matters in our case. We will probably file bugs under the name "ubuntuform-ambassadors" or something like that, so obviously they won't belong to us. And i don't feel kindly about giving credit to people that don't want to do research and figure out how to submit a proper bug and then want credit for the submission Smile :)

      • - PriceChild : I REALLY like the idea of one name for all bugs from the forums as That would really show what we can do.

        • - UbuntuDemon : would be nice to show "Forum Ambassador team member xyz has reported this bug for user zzzxxc" Smile :)

          • - ManiacMusician : eh. It detracts emphasis from the team and may cause some people to try and compete.

            • -ubuntu_demon : IMHO it's better than not seeeing the username of the user with the bug at all. - ubuntu_demon : let's leave it unresolved for now.

Brain Dump

  • sicofante: Tag threads from any subforum and create a virtual subforum that contains issues relevant to developers. This is the whole idea: The subforum would be created as a virtual subforum via the use of tags. It will be visible in the main forums page by creating a direct link to a tag search and by using the forumdisplay option for tags searches in [WWW] Zoints vBulletin add-on. Instead of having a dedicated "real" subforum, this approach has the following advantages:
    • - sicofante:No crossposting needed. The OP might want to keep the thread as it was originally intended (a help demand, a complaint, a request, whatever) and just tag it so the ambassadors can use it to show the issue to the devs.
      • ubuntu_demon : so the FA might have to go through a big thread to find the actual request. IMHO this is a disadvantage.
      - sicofante:The OP might not intend its post to be used by ambassadors but the mod still believe it would be useful, so the thread could go on "as is" and still serve the purpose of showing to the devs a particular point. - sicofante:Where the thread originally started will bring useful information to devs, mods and ambassadors. For instance, threads tagged from the beta testing forums are quite different from those coming from "absolute beginners". - sicofante:Ambassadors might "de-tag" some threads to prevent abuse. This might help the ambassadors getting a cleaner look at what they have to say to the devs. - ubuntu_demon : IMHO users should make the concious effort to go to the FA. This will make the amount of work a FA has to do manageable and it will mean that only people who actually want help with their spec/bugreport come to us. The FA is not for helping with support requests. - ubuntu_demon : forum staff can move threads to the FA forum section when they feel this is useful/necessary - sicofante: asking users for that effort is OK, but that will leave out issues that users simply complaint about in other forums. - ubuntu_demon : that's where polls come in. Also FA can start discussion threads in the FA forum or developer subforum to get valuable input.

      - PriceChild: The tags search doesnt' work like a normal forum, newer posts don't bump topics to the top. We'd have to try and keep it as clean as possible once the issue is dealt with. - I would prefer a separate forum with new discussion threads and simply a link to the original post because of this.

== Future work ==

  • Expanding to other forums

Comments

Archived comments: [wiki:ForumAmbassadors/Talk Talk page]

  • I think this is a great Idea. From a forums perspective at least the English one it will be really simple to allow this to be setup as a team with the option of users to request to join etc. I would like to see this implemented for sure. Ryan Troy
  • I think its a great idea to really well thought out. if its implemented right will work out great. zenrox


CategorySpec

ForumAmbassadors (last edited 2008-08-06 17:01:37 by localhost)