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=== DPic changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: First Ubuntu Gaming Team Meeting Today! Agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GamingTeam/Meetings/Minutes/2009-07-26  | #ubuntu-meeting Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs
[19:59] <DPic> 1 minute to meeting!
[19:59] <sakuramboo> w00t!
[20:00] <DPic> time to begin!
[20:00] <sakuramboo> im gonna be in and out of the meeting, since its my birthday, we might be having a meal soon
[20:00] <DPic> everybody have the agenda up?
[20:00] <sakuramboo> but, ill be here the best i can
[20:00] <sakuramboo> i do
[20:00] <DPic> everybody wish sakuramboo a happy birthday?
[20:00] <TAG-again> Hey guys, its the ancient goat here
[20:00] <Baby> happy birthday sakuramboo :)
[20:01] <TAG-again> Ditto :D
[20:01] <sakuramboo> thanks, everyone
[20:01] <TAG-again> Heh, cant believe I made it
[20:01] <sakuramboo> so, DPic, what kind of concerns are there that you might have?
[20:01] <TAG-again> The airport wlan blocks irc :/
[20:02] <DPic> sakuramboo, well, not so much my concerns, but the concerns of the commmunity that came up when i announced the group
[20:02] <sakuramboo> ahh
[20:02] <DPic> namely, that we'd be stepping on toes of debian-games
[20:02]  * Baby comes from Debian/Ubuntu Games Team
[20:02] <sakuramboo> i dont really see that as a concern because we wouldnt be package maintainers
[20:02] <DPic> sakuramboo, that's what i wanted to emphasize
[20:03] <sakuramboo> haha
[20:03]  * pabs3 from Debian too
[20:03] <sakuramboo> i do think, however, that we should be more proactive to suggesting games for debian games to package
[20:03] <DPic> that's the next topic
[20:03]  * goneri is from Debian Game
[20:04] <DPic> being a gaming team at all, people unfamiliar with us will come to us with those kinds of requests
[20:04] <DPic> i was thinking we could have a small team dedicated to communicating thsoe things to the debian games team if and when they come up
[20:04] <sakuramboo> i was just gonna suggest that we should have a completely open line of communication with DG
[20:04] <goneri> actually the Debian Games Team has already some MOTU
[20:04]  * sladen waves at goneri (or even have them in your midst)
[20:05] <Baby> more than that, we should have a continuous fluent communication among boths teams, in my opinion
[20:05] <sakuramboo> but, my complaint is more with DG and their game suggestions
[20:05] <KhaaL> DPic, that sounds good, considering how many things this team could do, its better to split and make mini-teams handling specific tasks
[20:05] <DPic> yes, but making it the job of a few people to make sure that that communications happens might be necessary
[20:05] <sladen> stop thinking us-and-them
[20:05] <Baby> sakuramboo: what is your complain?
[20:06] <Baby> sladen: right, we're in the same boat :)
[20:06] <qubodup> hi
[20:06] <sakuramboo> well, its not a complaint with DG, its more with using a bug tracker to submit package ideas
[20:06] <sladen> Baby: and even more, some people will be in both :)
[20:06] <Baby> sladen: hopefully :)
[20:06] <DPic> that was another of the DG concerns
[20:06] <KhaaL> one thing that i wonder is, should the ubuntu gaming team arrange gaming nights, clans etc, or should it focus only on "beaurocratic" things regarding gaming?
[20:06] <TAG-again> Hey qubodup
[20:07] <sakuramboo> suggesting a program for packaging is not a bug, its a package request
[20:07] <DPic> if there two teams do the same thing, why do we need both? that's why we need a bit of separation just by the definition of our teams and what we do
[20:07] <Baby> sakuramboo: I have no problems with anyone havin complains as long as we have feedback about them and can do something about it
[20:07] <Noya> hey everyone
[20:08] <sakuramboo> and my other problem i have with DG is the time length it takes to update packages
[20:08] <Baby> we have limited resources :)
[20:08] <DPic> sakuramboo, yeah, i don't think we can blame them, but perhaps directing people from our wiki page will help
[20:08] <goneri> we accept help
[20:08] <Baby> if we could have a list of priority packages we could at least make sure that those are as up to date as posssible
[20:09] <Baby> but it's hard to guarantee that for all games
[20:09] <sakuramboo> i understand that resources are a big factor, but i think that if we were to come out with a way for FOSS gaming developers to make it easier for them to pass them upstream to the maintainers, we would get them much faster
[20:10] <sakuramboo> because the current method is, when a new release of a game is out, we need someone to actually KNOW that its released
[20:10] <goneri> sakuramboo: how? You can already join us if you want to speed up packaging
[20:10] <sakuramboo> and with a lot of the packages, most go unnoticed
[20:10] <DPic> is this the kind of teachincal discussion that intrudes on DG?
[20:10] <sladen> Baby: okay, so it would be useful to help prioritise, and have people (in general) help with notifying with a new upstream release is out?
[20:10] <Baby> sladen: certainly :)
[20:11] <TAG-again> Just a quick question about the format of the meeting, are we just going to tackle it via discussion, or will we use the by topic format?
[20:11] <sakuramboo> goneri: i was thinking of getting in touch with all the current games offered, find out how they are all being offered (ie. ftp access, http, cvn, svc, whatever) and automate the process
[20:11] <DPic> TAG-again, we'll go by topics, but if that brings up something new, it's OK
[20:12] <sakuramboo> so that way, when a new version is uploaded, the script would download it, package it and release it to the repo
[20:12] <aburch> sakuramboo: Like uscan and friends do?
[20:12] <Baby> sakuramboo: not all of them are even maintained upstream
[20:12] <sakuramboo> im not familar with them
[20:12] <goneri> sakuramboo: like uscan and watch file?
[20:13] <Baby> sakuramboo: it's really not that easy to make release-package cycle automatic
[20:13] <sakuramboo> i understand that some projects arent worked on any more and may start to cause problems with this, but, i think that if we have some uniformity with the devs, it would make things much easier for everyone
[20:13] <Baby> usuallu patches have to be removed or refreshed, some stuff in the build system changes, build dependencies change ...
[20:14] <DPic> does DG have regular meetings?
[20:14] <sakuramboo> we shouldnt have to patch the source, especially when you download it, you are getting the full source any way
[20:14] <Baby> most of the serious stuff we do is through the mailing list
[20:14] <Baby> so that everyone can intervene
[20:15] <goneri> DPic: actually we are at Debconf9 right now
[20:15] <Baby> sakuramboo: you often have to patch the source
[20:15] <Baby> sakuramboo: sometimes it won't even compile otherwise
[20:15] <sakuramboo> thats for bleeding edge
[20:16] <Baby> in an ideal world we wouldn't need to patch right
[20:16] <sakuramboo> and, its bleeding edge to the point that they arent even waiting for the patches to be put into the CMS
[20:16] <DPic> goneri, is that once a year? isn't that a bit different?
[20:16] <Baby> but in this world it usually becomes something unavoidable
[20:16] <sladen> and if you're really lucky, upstream take the patch back so you don't need to keep it
[20:16] <sakuramboo> i understand that its unavoidable, but that doesnt mean we shouldnt just give up
[20:17] <sladen> but aswell as the debian/ directory you normally end up having to path *something* just to make it work
[20:17] <sakuramboo> s/shouldnt/should/
[20:17] <goneri> it depends on the meeting, there is also FOSDEM. What's the point?
[20:17] <sladen> or to deal with some portability issues (especially if the "cross-platform" game tends to have an MS Windowsy focus
[20:18] <Baby> in any case, this meeting is not about how to improve packaging methods right?
[20:18] <sakuramboo> right
[20:19] <Noya> okay, so what is the next topic on the list?
[20:19] <sakuramboo> DPic: still on the goals, purpose and scope?
[20:20] <DPic> that was bundled with explaining that people don't need to be concerned
[20:20] <DPic> but let's go over it anyway
[20:21] <DPic> basically, this team lives off of the ubuntu community, and focuses on the promotion of FOSS games and Ubuntu through each other
[20:21] <DPic> fo example the gaming clan that we'll discuss later
[20:21] <DPic> we're an advocacy/marketing group not a development/packaging group
[20:21] <DPic> any technical discussions we have we will communicate with the DG team
[20:22] <sakuramboo> question
[20:22] <DPic> we only deal with foss games: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GamingTeam#Why%20FOSS?
[20:22] <popey> What's the rationale for not being the marketing mouthpiece of the DG/UG team? Rather than be a separate team?
[20:22] <popey> i.e. why not join the teams that already exist?
[20:22] <DPic> popey, UG? we are UG, aren't we?
[20:22] <DPic> ah
[20:22] <goneri> I've the feeling you want DG to do the grunt work :)
[20:23] <popey> I am talking about DG (and the fact that there are Ubuntu Motu people on it thus making it a kinda DG/UG despite being called DG)
[20:23] <sakuramboo> how are we to handle people who are anti-foss? like, for example, when our channel was first made, we had a lot of people coming in wondering how to get CS:S working in WINE and all about commercial games?
[20:23] <DPic> we can still help them
[20:23] <Baby> I'm thinking that perhaps there is some concern of Ubuntu not being so visible in the Debian/Ubuntu Games Team, might I be right?
[20:23] <DPic> but our official projects and such won't be for proprietary games
[20:23] <sakuramboo> ok
[20:23] <DPic> Baby, like what?
[20:24] <Baby> it was a question
[20:24] <sakuramboo> well, one of the things someone brought up on the channel, and i think on the mailing list, was to help write documentation to help people getting WINE working with their games
[20:24] <DPic> popey / goneri, having an ubuntu team really bring out more people from the ubuntu community and makes things easier to organize
[20:25] <KhaaL> DPic, do we promote FOSS games that run flawlessly in wine, or do they have to be FOSS and native?
[20:25] <DPic> sakuramboo, that's fine, but we wouldn't put it on the wiki as some official team project
[20:25] <Baby> DPic: DUGT is currently also a Ubuntu Team
[20:25] <sakuramboo> okay, i see
[20:25] <Baby> or we pretend to be
[20:25] <DPic> KhaaL, as long as it's all FLOSS, we're all for it
[20:26] <DPic> sakuramboo, if out lists/channel becomes flooded with stuff about proprietary games, we might have to re-discuss this, but i don't think it'll be an issue
[20:26] <goneri> sakuramboo: PlayOnLinux is maintained in the DGT
[20:26] <sakuramboo> well, there are some FOSS games that are either written in things like C# or using windows libraries that cant be ported to other OS's without spending a lot of time and money to replace almost the entire game
[20:26] <DPic> Baby, DUGT?
[20:26] <Baby> Debian/Ubuntu Games Team
[20:26] <DPic> ah, the acroym keeps changing
[20:27] <DPic> haha
[20:27] <Baby> what I'm trying to explain is that the Team is both Debian and Ubuntu
[20:27] <goneri> actually, we was thinking we were Debian and Ubuntu Games Team since there was MOTU and DD in the same time since the beginin
[20:27] <Baby> there was never an acronym anyway, not officially afaik :P
[20:28] <sladen> https://launchpad.net/~pkg-games <--- "Debian/Ubuntu Games Team"
[20:28] <DPic> Baby, yes i understand, but the concern would be with splitting up the teams and/or duplicating effort, right? i don't see that happening, and i think this team has already been some good progress here. would would want this team to merge with DG and simply manage our presence on the Ubuntu Wiki?
[20:28] <Baby> some time ago we officially asked ubuntu developers who were packaging games to mix both teams and have a D/U Games Team and they accepted
[20:29] <Baby> we didn't absorb them, we joined both teams
[20:29] <DPic> Baby, so there are already two teams?
[20:29] <sladen> DPic: would the focus you're interested in be marketing/promotional/front-end support/finding new games to package, rather than doing the packaging grunt itself?
[20:29] <Baby> no, there is one team which is both part of Debian and Ubuntu
[20:29] <sakuramboo> what about hooking up with playdeb.net?
[20:29] <sladen> (something that the UGT is perhaps less good at?)
[20:30] <sladen> +D
[20:30] <goneri> sakuramboo: getdeb already use DG packages. They use to grab the debian/* files from the svn
[20:30] <sakuramboo> ahhh, did not know that
[20:30] <sakuramboo> but, they have packages that arent available by DG
[20:30] <Baby> sakuramboo: yup, probably they do too
[20:31] <sladen> actually, this is good, slowly, but surely we're figuring out what is already happening and hopefully it can be organised and written up
[20:31] <DPic> sladen, yes, that's what the ubuntu community is great at IMHO
[20:32] <DPic> and i think that there's so many people that would be interested in a group dedicated just for that
[20:32] <DPic> of course, we want to be very close with DG and there can be much overlap in membership, but not in purpose
[20:34] <DPic> i think we can get more done that way
[20:35] <DPic> there are activities i don't think the DG team would do like have a gaming clan specifically for ubuntu...
[20:35] <goneri> why not?
[20:36] <Baby> I don't think there would be any problem with that if someone wants to take care of it
[20:36] <goneri> clan, like a player team?
[20:36] <Zarel> Erm, is having a gaming clan specifically for ubuntu even withing our jurisdiction?
[20:36] <KhaaL> goneri, yes. I'd imagne a debian gamer would rather represent his distro than a derivate
[20:36] <KhaaL> but thats just me
[20:36] <DPic> teams that all carry ubuntu in the player names so all the windows/mac players will see
[20:36] <Baby> goneri: I think it's something like the web portal for gamers we've been discussing for some time
[20:36] <sladen> DPic: I don't think the Debian/Ubuntu game team would be objecting!... (though the likely reason is it's not something that has motivated anyway yet)
[20:37] <sladen> anyone
[20:37] <DPic> basically, this team COULD be part of DG, but i think we can do more by having two teams
[20:37] <Zarel> I mean, organizing teams is something players should be doing, not like the Debian Games Team...
[20:37] <goneri> DPic: isn't what append already? :)
[20:37] <DPic> goneri, yes, i'm just trying to defend keeping it that way
[20:38] <Baby> sladen: something like that was proposed two years ago in DebCOnf in Edinburgh
[20:38] <Zarel> Oh, hmm, apparently it is something we should be discussing. My bad. Carry on.
[20:38] <Baby> sladen: we just didn't have resources to implement it yet
[20:38] <DPic> are those from DG okay with allowing us to continue running to see how it plays out? if you're still unhappy in the coming months we'll talk again?
[20:39] <goneri> Baby: actually it was more about providing game servers for popular game
[20:39] <Baby> DPic: we're not unhappy!!! :P
[20:39] <sladen> Baby: darn, I was so busy trying to roll into my tartan... must have missed that
[20:39] <Baby> DPic: we just want to get the best of the cooperation of both teams
[20:39] <Baby> sladen: XD :)
[20:40] <DPic> Baby, alright, my personal opinion, and i think the cast majority of people in this group like having this separate team that can be the sister team of DG
[20:40] <DPic> vast*
[20:40] <Baby> we should go to have dinner or we won't get any :P
[20:41] <goneri> I've to leave. The Debconf restaurant is about to close.
[20:41] <sladen> re-reading https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GamingTeam  it currently states "...are a strictly a marketing and advocacy effort."
[20:41] <DPic> Baby, goneri, don't you have laptops? =]
[20:41] <sladen> goneri: ta for your time
[20:41] <DPic> get all that food and gunk in the keys
[20:41] <Baby> yup, we do
[20:41] <Baby> :)
[20:42] <DPic> so there is one semi-technical discussion i wanted to bring up
[20:42] <DPic> which is the next topic on the agenda
[20:42] <goneri> cya
[20:42] <DPic> bug #386797
[20:42] <Baby> oki, I have battery for 40 minutes :P
[20:42] <DPic> https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/386797
[20:43] <DPic> basically, everyone familiar with the needs of FOSS game/content developers, please read the bug + comments
[20:43] <Zarel> Distributed content development?
[20:43] <sladen> sounds like bzr/git and somewhere to host it
[20:43] <Zarel> ...sharing resources? Can't we just make a forum for that?
[20:44] <DPic> Zarel, it's less efficient
[20:44] <sladen> codehosting, github, alioth, etc
[20:44] <sakuramboo> Zarel: no, forums are not good for it because its just plain ugly and disorganized
[20:44] <Baby> is that like a common repository 4 game data?
[20:44] <Zarel> I suppose. So you propose a shared content repository?
[20:44] <sakuramboo> i thinking of something like a sourceforge, but for art
[20:44] <DPic> basically, i'm not too familiar with the subject, but i've talked to a lot of people who are saying that open source has conquered developing code together, but doing the same thing with content is much different, and is the #1 thing holding back FOSS games
[20:44] <Zarel> An interesting idea.
[20:44] <sakuramboo> DPic: thats true
[20:45] <DPic> the bug report was to have launchpad implement features to enable just that
[20:45] <sakuramboo> most developers are not artists
[20:45] <sladen> yeah, images don't diff as well as code
[20:45] <Zarel> And the other problem is, content probably shouldn't be shared too much between games - each game needs its own unique art...
[20:45] <DPic> and we need to figure out what features developers need
[20:45] <Zarel> Imagine if all games looked like Wesnoth. :/
[20:45] <DPic> Zarel, well that sharing should be possible
[20:45] <DPic> it doesn't mean all games will
[20:45] <sakuramboo> Zarel: there are a few games that uses wesnoth art
[20:45] <Zarel> Not, like, "As good as Wesnoth", which would be awesome, but like "identical to Wesnoth"
[20:45] <Noya> what is about sites like http://opengameart.org/
[20:45] <Zarel> sakuramboo: I know; that's why I used it as an example.
[20:46] <DPic> more than just a repository, but actual distributed development of the content
[20:46] <sladen> Zarel: would you rather good looking icons shared between games (example, a joystick icon, sound icon) or would you rather have to sit down for an extra day and draw (from scratch) a bunch of rushed icons
[20:47] <sladen> Zarel: FLOSS is about sharing, that's where the development speed comes from (be it pinching code, or images)
[20:47] <DPic> Zarel, and many games could use less stylistic artwork, and more generic realistic textures, etc
[20:47] <Zarel> I guess copied art isn't as bad as poor art.
[20:47] <DPic> sharing is what open source is all about, that doesn't mean all projects use all the same stuff and come out the same
[20:48] <DPic> Zarel, and shared art can change within different projects and become something else, that's what it's all about
[20:48] <sladen> Zarel: SVG files are the closest to "source code" and you can easily adapt those---perhaps it's about pursuade people to upload the originals, the .svg, the .xcf, the .psp rather than only uploading some downscaled 64x64 icon at the end
[20:48] <Zarel> Actually, this is a _very_ good idea.
[20:48] <Zarel> Sharing originals could definitely be useful.
[20:48] <Baby> @dinner :)
[20:48] <DPic> Baby, what/how is it?
[20:49] <Baby> just eatable :)
[20:49] <sladen> probably just finished queueing!
[20:49] <sakuramboo> Noya: opengameart.org lookss pretty banging
[20:49] <Noya> sorry to just mention it again, but what is about opengameart... it has interesting features like revisions, see here: http://opengameart.org/node/2437/revisions
[20:49] <DPic> here's something someone emailed to me as one example of an aspect of content development http://www.imperialwinter.com/?sec=progress
[20:50] <Noya> as I understand the site, everybody can upload open source art, remix it, upload it again etc.
[20:50] <Noya> there are already meshes, textures, maps, sound, etc.
[20:51] <Zarel> DPic: Fatal error: require_once: failed opening required file?
[20:51] <Noya> (and no, I am not affliated with the site :)
[20:51] <sakuramboo> Noya: i was totally unfamilar with that site, its gonna be my new home now, thanks :)
[20:51] <Zarel> So is opengameart what bug #386797 is asking for?
[20:51] <DPic> Zarel, strange...it seems to ahve just gone down
[20:51] <Zarel> DPic: Unfortunate.
[20:51] <DPic> Zarel, it's a lot of it, but not all
[20:52] <sakuramboo> Zarel: opengameart looks like what i was thinking
[20:52] <DPic> the link that i tried to send but just went down was another piece
[20:52] <DPic> structured development of content for games/applications
[20:52] <DPic> as in, how much of each piece of content is complete
[20:52] <DPic> voice acting, textures, battletoads, etc
[20:53] <DPic> and content development is also very useful for the blender foundation and their open movie projects
[20:53] <sladen> battletoad
[20:53] <sladen> ?
[20:53] <DPic> it's a huge market that canonical could tap into
[20:53] <sladen> it doesn't have to be Canonical :)
[20:53] <DPic> sladen, no, but they already have launchpad which could be the center for code and content
[20:53] <DPic> that would be incredible
[20:54] <Noya> DPic: so, what exactly is missing in , lets say launchpad, to do what you just said?
[20:55] <DPic> so far i've got the features of opengameart, the progress page that i tried to link from imperial winter and some other things
[20:55] <DPic> but that's what i wanted this discussion to be about
[20:55] <Octalot> Does opengameart have a solution for the problem of spotting copyvios?   One advantage of having a few artists attached to a project is that new art needs to fit the current project's style, so if something is suspected the artist can have suggestions about how to make their art fit -- which will catch people who don't have the talent to draw "their" art.
[20:55] <DPic> what else could content developers use
[20:55] <sladen> (personal guesses, but I want to here other people's):   Image previews, 3D previews, Simple Image diffing (hilighting/only showing the changed pixels in two images
[20:55] <DPic> game content, or open movie content
[20:56] <DPic> the end of this comment has a list of some features https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad-foundations/+bug/386797/comments/8
[20:56] <Zarel> I say that, for communities, it's best to have the entire community on one site. If opengameart already does what we need, no need to make another site. :/
[20:56] <DPic> someone also mentioned verse http://verse.blender.org/
[20:56] <DPic> Zarel, it does some of what we need, but not enough
[20:56] <Zarel> Ah.
[20:57] <DPic> from the launchpad comment:
[20:57] <DPic> 1. nterpretation and visual representation of binary data as:
[20:57] <DPic> gimp files (understanding layers, resizing, maybe a sort of "diffing" where you can see where changes are made.
[20:58] <DPic> png and jpg files (understanding that they can be (resized) derivatives of gimp, photoshop or painter binary source files.)
[20:58] <Baby> so the idea is to provide artwork for game developers?
[20:58] <DPic> sound files (display a wave table, “diffing” by showing changes in this wave table with revisions, understanding volume changes.)
[20:58] <Noya> DPic: I read those comments, and they are nice features,
[20:58] <DPic> etc
[20:58] <DPic> Baby, provide artwork, and features to help share and develope the artwork
[20:58] <Noya> DPic: but I guess the major part is just to get a pool of open resources
[20:58] <Baby> aha
[20:58] <DPic> for games, normal apps that need artwork, and even open movies
[20:58] <Zarel> DPic: Doesn't opengameart have a diffing feature?
[20:59] <Baby> I'm not sure that should be a distribution's task
[20:59] <DPic> Baby, no, it isn't
[20:59] <sladen> currently we "understand" the differences in code by cropping it up into pieces based on the \n character, and then word with those
[20:59] <DPic> Baby, it's a huge task
[20:59] <Baby> I know, it's very huge
[21:00] <DPic> Noya, i wouldn't say that's the major part, perhaps a major part, but only half of what is needed, if even
[21:00]  * Zarel can't help but misinterpret each time he sees a sentence starting with "Baby,"
[21:00] <sladen> you need the equivalent for $various binary files;  and need to work out whether the equivalent is splitting per layer, per object, by XML sub-trees, per scanline, per pixel
[21:00] <DPic> Zarel, yeah it's weird typing them too
[21:00] <DPic> lol
[21:00] <Noya> DPic: how about getting a taskforce together for this
[21:00] <Baby> Zarel: :P
[21:00] <DPic> Noya, that would probably be necessary
[21:00] <DPic> how should it be organized?
[21:01] <Noya> DPic: some kind of workgroup, and ideally they should contact opengameart to work together if possible
[21:01] <DPic> shall i create a launchpad team to detail everything we're looking for?
[21:01] <DPic> or launchpad project?
[21:02] <DPic> or launchpad blueprint?
[21:02] <DPic> so many options!
[21:02] <Noya> DPic: well ;)
[21:02] <DPic> i think a team or blueprint would be most appropriate
[21:02] <DPic> a blueprint would be a detail discussing the changes that would be necessary to launchpad
[21:02] <Noya> DPic: maybe just a launchpad team and some wiki page / blueprint
[21:02] <DPic> a team would allow us to have a mailing list
[21:03] <DPic> alright i'll set that up and we'll talk about it again at the next meeting
[21:03] <DPic> any last words on this topic?
[21:03] <Noya> DPic: ideally you could write a mail to the list
[21:03] <DPic> Noya, i will
[21:03] <Noya> DPic: telling about the new group
[21:03] <sladen> wiki + mailing list0r it
[21:03] <Noya> DPic: and interested people could agree on a working group meeting
[21:03] <DPic> mhm
[21:04] <sladen> (all the ideas need picking out of the logs at  irclogs.ubuntu.com at the end of this meeting
[21:04] <Noya> DPic: so we could focus on the many many other topics ;)
[21:04] <DPic> sladen, yeah, i'm going to do that
[21:04] <DPic> and put it on the wiki page
[21:04] <DPic> that the agenda is cvurrently on
[21:04] <sladen> what's next, you're in control
[21:04] <DPic> so next topic: ubuntu gaming clan
[21:04]  * KhaaL cheers!
[21:05] <DPic> who suggested the idea?
[21:05] <sakuramboo> ill join the clan, but i dont like attaching a group to my name
[21:05] <KhaaL> i did, i suggest that the UG cooperates with ubuntu gaming night, at least during the nights they play FOSS games
[21:05] <DPic> i'm not familiar with gaming clans, but i understand the purpose would be to show [Ubuntu] in each player gamer tag so that windows/mac users will see it
[21:05] <KhaaL> (they reside in #UGN by the way)
[21:05] <Zarel> Considering the state of FOSS gaming currently, we might want to unite all FOSS gamers in one, instead of having any sort of Ubuntu-only clan?
[21:06] <KhaaL> Zarel, actually there is a reason for this
[21:06] <DPic> Zarel, in one what?
[21:06] <Zarel> There probably was, but I wasn't there to hear it. :/
[21:06] <Zarel> DPic: One clan.
[21:06] <sladen> [IDEA] Publicise Ubuntu Gaming Night
[21:06] <KhaaL> thing is, if there is a ubuntu clan, and if we can get other distros to have clans of their own, then we could have tournaments and ladders for the FOSS community
[21:06] <DPic> sladen, yes, let's do that too
[21:06] <sakuramboo> DPic: Zarel, is talking about making a [FLOSS] tag and just have one big clan
[21:07] <KhaaL> that will promote FOSS software, and also show the demand for gaming on the linux platform
[21:07] <DPic> sakuramboo, well, so we'd have to play on non-FLOSS games?
[21:07] <sakuramboo> no, but if people want to, they can
[21:07] <Zarel> KhaaL: Oh, hmm, that's a very good idea.
[21:07] <DPic> an interesting idea, but that might conflict with our no-proprietary standpoint
[21:07]  * Zarel goes off to form a Windows gaming clan
[21:07] <DPic> i say people should do it on their ow
[21:08] <KhaaL> DPic, so the clanning thing is independant from UG?
[21:08] <Zarel> It would, ironically, probably be smaller than the Ubuntu gaming clan. There aren't very many FOSS gamers on Windows. :/
[21:08] <DPic> but we should have an ubuntu clan because many FLOSS gamers are still on windows/mac
[21:08] <DPic> no, somebody said they got in contact and found that many of the FLOSS gamers on whatever game(s) were playing on windows
[21:08] <sakuramboo> i would like to find out how many foss gamers are on windows vs linux
[21:08] <DPic> KhaaL, were you the one that got the numbers?
[21:09] <KhaaL> DPic, what numbers mate?
[21:09] <DPic> how many FLOSS gamers are still on windows?
[21:09] <KhaaL> no
[21:09] <DPic> for some particular game(s)
[21:09] <DPic> well, somebody found out the number was significant
[21:10] <sladen> you'll probably find it's like Firefox;  most of the users are on MS Windows
[21:11] <Zarel> Well, yeah, but that's more because there are few good alternatives for Firefox on Windows.
[21:11] <KhaaL> well, then that should transfer them easier to linuxland :)
[21:11] <Zarel> There are many more proprietary games on Windows than browsers.
[21:11] <sakuramboo> i understand the firefox because of shear market share of windows
[21:11] <KhaaL> Zarel, propeitary games wont be of our concern anyway
[21:11] <Zarel> And the relative quality of proprietary games on Windows is higher than the relative quality of proprietary browsers. ;)
[21:12] <sakuramboo> even if 100% of linux users use firefox, if 2% of windows users use firefox, thats about the same numbers
[21:13] <KhaaL> well, either way the more foss software a user is using, that exists on both linux and windows, the easier and more appealing it becomes to make the switch
[21:13] <Noya> fsda
[21:13] <Noya> sry
[21:13] <sakuramboo> i agree KhaaL, you cant migrate people all at once
[21:14] <DPic> the question that really has needed answering is how we'd organize our clan
[21:14] <sakuramboo> they need to use each program before making a switch to an different OS
[21:14] <KhaaL> dosent matter if its 20% or 2% of the total windows users, our purpose is to make them penguin lovers in the end ;>
[21:14] <Zarel> Works for me.
[21:14] <Zarel> We could drum up publicity on sites such as Xfire...
[21:14] <sakuramboo> if xfire actually worked on linux
[21:15] <sakuramboo> instead of a crappy pidgin plugin
[21:15] <KhaaL> DPic, depending on the amount of members, we''ll need one that will recruit members, another to do the technical things such as set up servers...
[21:15] <KhaaL> but we should really look into the possibility to work together with UGN on this
[21:15] <DPic> KhaaL, alright, we'll do that then
[21:15] <Noya> again I would propose a working group for this
[21:15] <KhaaL> they're ahead of us in this aspect and have already arranged gaming nights
[21:16] <sladen> sakuramboo: what's this about xfire not working?
[21:16] <sladen> sakuramboo: is it something that is broken and fixable?
[21:16] <Noya> (not everz group needs a launchpad team, but a wiki page)
[21:16] <DPic> i'm going to make a list of action items
[21:16] <sakuramboo> xfire is windows-only
[21:16] <Zarel> sladen: I think he's implying that xfire is Windows-only.
[21:16] <DPic> and at our next meeting people can sign up for each of them
[21:16] <Noya> DPic: good idea
[21:17] <Polarina> Hello.
[21:17] <DPic> Polarina, hi
[21:17] <Noya> DPic: they could all use the same mailinglist, so every team knows what the others do
[21:17] <KhaaL> ok, as a working groups purpose for this is to cover the possibility to work together with UGN?
[21:17] <DPic> Noya, yeah, we won't have seperate mailing lists
[21:17] <Zarel> We should really unite all the FOSS gaming PR teams. :/
[21:17] <DPic> except perhaps for disctributed content development
[21:18] <Noya> DPic: maybe just a wiki page per team and some person that is responsible for that team / working group
[21:18] <DPic> Zarel, what other's exist?
[21:18] <Baby> we have a mailing list for game teams with all the distros
[21:18] <Noya> DPic: sure
[21:18] <Baby> in freedesktop
[21:18] <sakuramboo> i found it interesting that, i went to a UGN and the game of the night was armagetron
[21:18] <DPic> Noya, yeah jobs is the last topic for the meeting
[21:18] <Zarel> DPic: I mean, if others do exist. I wouldn't know about that.
[21:18] <sakuramboo> we played more armagetron that night than any other game
[21:18] <DPic> Zarel, so far i've heard of UGN, and perhaps they'd like to be absorbed
[21:19] <Zarel> Let's annex them, forcefully. ;)
[21:19] <KhaaL> DPic, keep in mind that UGN plays propeitary games aswell
[21:19] <DPic> Zarel, haha who will lead the conquest?
[21:19] <Zarel> Really? Ugh, no thanks, then.
[21:19] <KhaaL> so we can cooporate in the FOSS gaming
[21:19] <DPic> KhaaL, ah...
[21:19] <DPic> yeah
[21:19] <DPic> perhaps it will just be a partnership ratehr than a new team
[21:19] <sladen> oh, it's not a game, it's IM with some extra meta-data
[21:19] <KhaaL> its not like there are a plethora of propeitary games for linux anyway :|
[21:20] <Zarel> Ever heard of Cedega?
[21:20] <sladen> actually a Free version of that *would* be interesting, it's close to what Sugar and the current #ubuntuone people are working on
[21:20] <DPic> lol
[21:20] <sakuramboo> sladen: yeah, thats all it is, but it has some nice functionality, but all linux has is a pidgin plugin that sucks
[21:20] <Zarel> You'd be surprised how many games are Linux-compatible with Wine and Wine-derivatives.
[21:20] <DPic> Zarel, truth.
[21:20] <sladen> sakuramboo: well, sucky things can be made less sucky
[21:20] <sakuramboo> KhaaL: actually, there are a lot more than what people think
[21:21] <KhaaL> Zarel, running through wine is not acceptable imo. gaming companies exploit the wine team efforts IMO
[21:21] <sladen> sakuramboo: it's called bug fxing
[21:21] <Noya> sakuramboo: yeah, you could try to help them fix it ;)
[21:21] <Zarel> Fun fact, C&C 3 for Mac is basically just Wine + C&C 3 for Windows.
[21:21] <sakuramboo> im not a developer ;)
[21:21] <DPic> alright alright, back to topic =]
[21:21] <KhaaL> sakuramboo, well they're not comparable even to the mac platform
[21:21] <DPic> next up is fundraisers
[21:21] <Zarel> Let's bake cookies!
[21:22] <sakuramboo> sell sperm
[21:22] <Zarel> ...I like my idea better.
[21:22] <KhaaL> haha
[21:22] <sladen> sakuramboo: no. but you're whinging, which means you've used it noticed problems and are able to report them
[21:22] <sakuramboo> actually, no, i havent used xfire
[21:22] <sladen> sakuramboo: which means you're already one up on my (I hadn't even heard of it;  at 13 million users, it clearly has a user-case)
[21:23] <Zarel> I've used xfire, but that's because I run Windows.
[21:23]  * Zarel dodges tomatoes
[21:23] <Noya> DPic: well, we first would need a real webpage, ideally with a voting system
[21:23] <sladen> in which case, who is saying that it sucks, or are we just repeating hearsay?
[21:23] <KhaaL> regarding fundraising, we need to agree on how to choose a game. by largest votes? games showing most promise? games that just went FOSS? or games that are foss but dont run native on linux (thus, the donation would be a "bribe" to port it)?
[21:23] <DPic> Noya, well how often would we do fundraisers?
[21:23] <Zarel> I've always wondered which FOSS games are popular.
[21:23] <Noya> DPic: so people could vote on game features, on specific games or floss gaming in general
[21:23] <DPic> perhaps we should set a website
[21:23] <Zarel> I mean, Wesnoth is #1, but who's #2? Does anyone even know?
[21:24] <Noya> DPic: money would be distributed based on the votes
[21:24] <sakuramboo> nexuiz?
[21:24] <sladen> DPic: fundraisers for dying babies with Ubulalalland?
[21:24] <DPic> Zarel, nexuiz
[21:24] <sladen> in
[21:24] <DPic> Noya, or perhaps we could just have a donate buton next to each game
[21:24] <Zarel> There should be a list somewhere.
[21:24] <Noya> DPic: I'd go the opengameart way
[21:25] <DPic> Zarel, there are lists everywhere, but we should set up a website that is ubuntu-specific
[21:25] <Noya> DPic: collect money from people that goes into a pot
[21:25] <sakuramboo> DPic: i dont agree with that because we would only be helping out the, say, top 10 games
[21:25] <Noya> DPic: then the money from the pot is distributed depending on various criteria
[21:25] <sakuramboo> i think it would be better to collect money for some of the lesser known games
[21:25] <DPic> sakuramboo, don't agree with which?
[21:25] <KhaaL> by the way, if the funds would be divided depending on the votes, wouldnt that also mean most transfer-costs?
[21:25] <Noya> DPic: most games will have a donate button on their website, I guess
[21:25] <KhaaL> *more transfer costs
[21:25] <pabs3> wow, this meeting is still going?
[21:25] <DPic> KhaaL, exactly
[21:25] <DPic> pabs3, yes =]
[21:26] <DPic> and strong too
[21:26] <sakuramboo> DPic: listing a bunch of games with donate buttons next to each one
[21:26] <Zarel> DPic: I can't find very many lists ranked by popularity.
[21:26] <sladen> and who/how would you then donate it _to_ ?
[21:26] <sladen> handling money as-agent is a major hassle
[21:26] <DPic> okay everyone, here's my idea
[21:26] <Noya> sladen: I don
[21:26] <Noya> t think so, if you do it transparently
[21:27] <DPic> we implement an ubunt-specific list of FOSS games
[21:27] <DPic> we can rank my popularity
[21:27] <DPic> or whatever
[21:27] <DPic> but
[21:27] <DPic> each will have a link to contribute, and all the possible ways to contribute will be listed
[21:27] <DPic> if their site has a donate link
[21:27] <DPic> we'll direct users there for monetary contributions
[21:28] <DPic> basically, planning isn't realyl worth it yet though because we need a website first
[21:28] <DPic> so we'll put a website on our list of action items
[21:28] <Noya> DPic: well, let me make another proposal
[21:29] <Noya> DPic: people can donate money to the foss-gaming-site
[21:29] <sladen> you can publicise the fact that "Helen, one of the Foobaruluma Zero car racing SIM developers is after a Wii-mote Car driving wheel to try and improve the bluetooth driving wheel support.  It's going to cost $150US, offers/donations welcomed"  (eg. specific project, specific person, specific reason, specific destination)
[21:29] <Noya> DPic: the money goes into a pot, and how much money is in the pot is visible to everyone
[21:29] <DPic> Noya, it's much harder to do that way. handling money is a hard task
[21:29] <DPic> Noya, if we get to a point where we have the resources
[21:29] <DPic> i'm all for it
[21:29] <DPic> but it's not easy to do off the bat like this
[21:29] <DPic> long term, we can aim  for that
[21:29] <Noya> DPic: well, but a site with links to games you can donate too, I don't get the point of it
[21:30] <KhaaL> ...if there only were a opensource competetor to paypal...
[21:30] <Noya> DPic: I guess people wont notice the site, as it looks like an assembly
[21:31] <Noya> DPic: with a pot you could motivate and advertise with something like "support the floss game scene"
[21:31] <Noya> DPic: so people could donate to floss games in general, and not to a specific game, what they could do now anyway
[21:31] <DPic> Noya, it's better, but this still does the job. we simply don't have the resources right now..
[21:31] <Noya> that's the way opengameart works, and it seems it works quite well
[21:31] <Noya> DPic: right, just wanted to complete here ;)
[21:32] <DPic> haha ok
[21:32] <DPic> next up, tournaments and matches
[21:32] <Noya> DPic: maybe this could be another working group, and maybe we find someone who has time to manage an account for the money... just lets see
[21:32] <Noya> (I'm silent now)
[21:32] <DPic> Noya, we'd have to figure out the legalities ofthat
[21:33] <DPic> KhaaL, did oyu also suggest tournaments and matches?
[21:33] <KhaaL> regarding earlier topic , we can do it simple like, once the clan is challenged/challenging in a specific game, they (the members) make a small donation to that game
[21:33] <KhaaL> DPic, indeed
[21:33] <DPic> how should that be organized?
[21:34] <KhaaL> Once we'd have our own clan up and running, we could, like i mentioned before, to challenge gamers in fedora, slackware, opensuse etc in certain games
[21:34] <DPic> sounds good
[21:34] <KhaaL> we'd only need a neutral observer or a clanladder for those kind of games
[21:34] <KhaaL> (maybe we can ask FSF for sponsorship for this?)
[21:34] <DPic> but basically we just have to set up the clan first
[21:34] <KhaaL> exactly
[21:34] <DPic> KhaaL, that would be cool
[21:35] <KhaaL> so its something that we'll have to organize, once the clan is up and stable
[21:35] <DPic> and other project ideas?
[21:35] <KhaaL> actually
[21:35] <KhaaL> i thought of something
[21:35] <KhaaL> else
[21:36] <KhaaL> I just realized how hard it was to buy a joypad that works OOTB for ubuntu!
[21:36] <DPic> so what is the proposal?
[21:36] <KhaaL> maybe we can encourage gamers to contribute to a gaming hardware compatibility wiki page?
[21:36] <DPic> ah, not a bad idea
[21:36] <KhaaL> for gamepads, joysticks etc
[21:36] <sakuramboo> KhaaL: Super Dual Box Pro w/ PS2 controller
[21:37] <sakuramboo> KhaaL: or, Logitech Wingman
[21:37] <KhaaL> sakuramboo, i'll have to look at them tomorrow :]
[21:37] <sakuramboo> :)
[21:37] <KhaaL> i bought a saitek wich is an effetive brick
[21:37] <DPic> i'll add that to our action list
[21:37] <KhaaL> great
[21:37] <DPic> any other ideas?
[21:37] <Noya> so, does the ubuntu game night offer torunaments?
[21:38] <KhaaL> Noya, not atm, they only play casually once a week
[21:38] <sakuramboo> i got one
[21:38] <Noya> wouldn't it be great to have tournaments once in a week or every two weeks?
[21:39] <KhaaL> Noya, it would! but we need a clan going and organised :)
[21:39] <sakuramboo> what about getting in touch with the quakecon guys to getting a table or something
[21:39] <Noya> KhaaL: well no, actually something like a ubuntu game night, without a clan
[21:39] <sakuramboo> showing off games like open arena and nexuiz, and also informing everyone that the quake series plays natively in linux, too
[21:39] <DPic> sakuramboo, that's a great idea!
[21:39] <Noya> KhaaL: ubuntu tournament night ;)
[21:39] <DPic> when is it?
[21:39] <Noya> sakuramboo: cool
[21:40] <KhaaL> Noya, you mean not as a team event?
[21:40] <KhaaL> but as a "lone-soldier event?
[21:40] <Noya> KhaaL: right, more like a regular event, where people can play 1on1 or 2on2
[21:40] <Noya> KhaaL: armagetron tournaments for example
[21:40] <DPic> sakuramboo, when is itt?
[21:40] <DPic> and where?
[21:40] <KhaaL> Noya, cool - me like!
[21:41] <sakuramboo> DPic: QuakeCon is aug 13-16, 2009
[21:41] <Noya> there could even be tournaments that last one or two weeks
[21:41] <DPic> Noya, that's what i was thinking as far as tourny's and matches go, it's organizing that's the question
[21:41] <DPic> how do we organize
[21:41] <DPic> sakuramboo, that's soon
[21:41] <Noya> a tournament match is scheduled from monday to wednesday for example, and the two opponents could agree on a time for playing
[21:42] <sakuramboo> DPic: yeah, its soon, so not doing it this year is fine, but its something we can shoot for next year
[21:42] <DPic> sakuramboo, absolutely
[21:42] <Noya> this is going on for the whole week
[21:42] <DPic> great idea
[21:42] <DPic> any other conventions people know of?
[21:42] <Noya> and on sunday at 18utc there is the final
[21:42] <sakuramboo> but, it also doesnt have to be just with quakecon, but other gaming conventions, too
[21:42] <KhaaL> there is one problem though, how do we solve the ping issue once a US gamer wants to go against a EU gamer?
[21:42] <Noya> people who dont attend to a match are disqualified :)
[21:43] <sakuramboo> KhaaL: need to talk to nuxified.com (i think, might be org)
[21:43] <sakuramboo> KhaaL: last year, they had an online tournament that seemed to go rather well
[21:43] <KhaaL> sakuramboo, they are the ping gods?
[21:43] <DPic> alright i's almost time to close up the meeting
[21:43] <DPic> we have some closing topics first
[21:43] <sakuramboo> KhaaL: no, but, they did it and could give tips
[21:44] <Noya> KhaaL: lets get back on this later then...
[21:44] <KhaaL> great
[21:44] <Noya> DPic: go on :)
[21:44] <DPic> future meetings: how often?
[21:44] <KhaaL> often now in the beginning
[21:44] <sakuramboo> i think once a season would be good
[21:45] <KhaaL> to have follow ups and such
[21:46] <DPic> i think we need a follow up to this meeting fairly soon
[21:46] <DPic> in am month or two
[21:46] <DPic> because we have a lot to get done
[21:46] <DPic> and a lot of jobs to assign
[21:46] <KhaaL> i agree
[21:46] <DPic> and interest dies down when meetings don't stay regular
[21:46] <sakuramboo> true
[21:46] <DPic> i'm thinking once or twice a month is better
[21:46] <Noya> DPic: once a month, and adjustable with variing topics?
[21:46] <DPic> yes
[21:47] <DPic> on the 4th sunday of each month?
[21:47] <sladen> bag your spot
[21:47] <KhaaL> same time?
[21:47] <sakuramboo> that sounds good
[21:48] <DPic> excellent
[21:48] <DPic> now, jobs
[21:48] <DPic> KhaaL, you will lead the ideas you suggested?
[21:48] <sladen> I reckon something you should aim to do is organise a computer with a gamingin setup for Ubuntu prescenes at Expos
[21:48] <DPic> gaming clan and tournaments/matches?
[21:49] <DPic> sladen, another good idea. we'll have to talk about conventiones next month
[21:49] <sladen> eg. FlightGear, TuxRacer, or a TrainSim, or something people can gather around and watch and a get hooked/drawn-in/have a go
[21:50] <KhaaL> DPic, I can go for the clan but I'd like to have assistance since I'm startnig a fulltime job and will have a woman moving in fairly soon, so my spare time might get butchered
[21:50] <DPic> KhaaL, congrats on the misses xD
[21:50] <DPic> who's willing to help?
[21:50] <KhaaL> haha, thanks :-]
[21:50] <Noya> KhaaL: ;)
[21:51] <KhaaL> i can see other distros if they're intrested in mustering up gamers and have a go at us. and see how FSF might be intrested
[21:51] <DPic> KhaaL, yes, and email the list as well
[21:51] <KhaaL> DPic, our list?
[21:52] <DPic> yeah to find help organizing the clan and stuff
[21:52] <KhaaL> will do
[21:52] <DPic> is anyone willing to help me manage meetings?
[21:52] <DPic> job includes: creating agendas, writing follow ups from readin the logs, creating actions items
[21:53] <sakuramboo> i think next month we should divy up the jobs, wait to see who the actual regulars are
[21:53] <DPic> it's not a very interesting job, but it's a bit big for me alone
[21:53] <Noya> DPic: sorry, I'd love to help, but I'm busy working on glou
[21:53] <DPic> Noya, that's okay. thanks anyways
[21:53] <sakuramboo> because, i know there was one or two people that wanted to make this meeting, but couldnt
[21:53] <DPic> sakuramboo, maybe you're right
[21:54] <DPic> sakuramboo, did debconf get in their way?
[21:54] <sakuramboo> no, i know the goat guy wanted to make it, but hes on a plain right now
[21:55] <KhaaL> "goat guy"
[21:55] <sakuramboo> theamericangoat, i think
[21:55] <KhaaL> ah, well i got a very hilarious image in my head :D
[21:55] <sakuramboo> TheAncientGoat
[21:55] <DPic> sakuramboo, theancientgoat
[21:55] <sakuramboo> sorry
[21:55] <DPic> lol
[21:55] <sakuramboo> yes
[21:55] <DPic> KhaaL, hilarious or disgusting?
[21:56] <sakuramboo> oh, okay, DPic, can we hostname ban that depressed kid?
[21:56] <DPic> sakuramboo, what kinds of things was he saying?
[21:56] <DPic> is he a troll?
[21:56] <KhaaL> its was hilarious, i wasnt thinking of THAT goat :]
[21:56] <DPic> KhaaL, haha just making sure
[21:56] <sakuramboo> trolling and the first time i saw him, he connected with two accounts and the other account, he started flooding my PM wanting to cyber me
[21:57] <DPic> ah, sounds like it's time to pull out the b&hammer
[21:57] <DPic> somebody else actually registered #ubuntu-gaming
[21:58] <sakuramboo> aight, dinner time for me, ill be around
[21:58] <DPic> i'm an irc failure so i don't know how to do that, but i agree he should be banned
[21:59] <DPic> alright everyone, thank you so much for coming
[21:59] <KhaaL> DPic
[21:59] <DPic> KhaaL, yes?
[21:59] <DPic> i'll be posting a meeting summary on the minutes page (where the agenda is currently)
[21:59] <DPic> it should be up within a few days
[22:00] <DPic> our next meeting will be next month on the 4th sunday
[22:00] <DPic> same time
[22:00] <KhaaL> could you get the meetings and events in a public google calendar ?
[22:00] <DPic> KhaaL, they are =]
[22:00] <DPic> KhaaL, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GamingTeam/Meetings
[22:00] <Noya> christoph_debian: on schedule as always ;)
[22:00] <KhaaL> oh, they're just hiding from me then
[22:00] <DPic> you can subscribe to our calendar there
[22:01] <KhaaL> w00t! awesome!
[22:01] <DPic> thank you everyone!! this meeting has gone on strong for TWO FULL HOURS!
[22:01] <DPic> any last words?
[22:02] <KhaaL> long live the penguin!@#
[22:02] <DPic> long live the penguin!
[22:02] <KhaaL> thanks for hosting the meeting :)
[22:02] <DPic> i hearby declare this meeting concluded!
[22:03] <Noya> KhaaL: so
[22:03] <christoph_debian> Noya, :)
[22:03] <Noya> KhaaL: do you any site that hosts regular tournaments?
[22:03] <Noya> +know
[22:03] <KhaaL> Noya, no not really, i have been avoiding competetive gameplay last few years
[22:04] <Noya> KhaaL: well, me too, but mostly due to a lack of tournament sites I know
[22:04] <KhaaL> you have any in mind?
[22:04] <Noya> KhaaL: nope, that's the problem
[22:04] <Noya> I know those big tournaments where the "pros" play against each other
[22:04] <Noya> clans
[22:05] <KhaaL> hmmm, we might ask for that on the list - maybe there is one under a rock we havent looked under...
[22:05] <KhaaL> like clanladder?
[22:05] <Noya> KhaaL: right
[22:05] <Noya> KhaaL: but I think there could be some interest in a tournament site that is for casual players also
[22:05] <Noya> you know you have time next week, so you join a tournament with people that match your skill
[22:06] <Noya> that would be ideal imho
[22:06] <KhaaL> i think that sounds awesome!
[22:06] <Noya> and the games could be games like teeworlds or armagetron
[22:06] <KhaaL> but that would require the games to keep track of stats
[22:06] <KhaaL> suck as kills per minute or such
[22:06] <KhaaL> *Such
[22:06] <Noya> KhaaL: yeah, that basically is what we want to do with the glou project
[22:06] <KhaaL> in order to get matched to others in the same skill
[22:07] <KhaaL> oh? tell me about the glou :)
[22:07] <Zarel> ...
[22:07] <Zarel> Aww, man, I missed the rest of the meeting.
[22:07] <Noya> KhaaL: for the beginning I think a simple webpage with tournaments for different games would suffic
[22:08] <Noya> KhaaL: well you know steam?
[22:08] <Noya> KhaaL: or xbox live
[22:08] <Noya> KhaaL: glou is essentialy the open source counterpart
[22:08] <KhaaL> ohhh, thats awesome
[22:08] <DPic> did the logging bot just show up after the meeting ended?
[22:09] <KhaaL> how's implementing it in games? because different games in different languages will requier different type or libraries
[22:09] <Noya> KhaaL: we develop an open protocol used for server listing and player stats
[22:09] <KhaaL> DPic, is Zarel the logging bot? :p
[22:09] <Noya> KhaaL: and a reference c library that can be used
[22:09] <Noya> KhaaL: and bindings for this library
[22:09] <Noya> KhaaL: http://glou.sourceforge.net/
[22:10] <KhaaL> Noya, sounds great in my ears. its just convincing the existing developers to adopt the idea
[22:10] <Zarel> Or was DPic kidding when he declared the meeting concluded?
[22:10] <Zarel> Don't do that to me, man! D:
[22:10] <Noya> KhaaL: well, the project started on the mailinglist of open source games
[22:10] <Noya> KhaaL: this was four months ago, I invited the game developers of the major open source games to discuss the idea
[22:11] <Noya> KhaaL: we should have developers from the top 15 open source games on the list or in our irc channel
[22:11] <DPic> KhaaL, Zarel, ubottu joined after the meeting ended
[22:11] <Noya> armagetron, and wesnoth, and the open source shooters ;)
[22:11] <DPic> is that the logging bot?
[22:11] <KhaaL> Noya, sounds like a good idea
[22:11] <KhaaL> Noya, thought its a major undertakement
[22:11] <KhaaL> even to find a time that will suit them all
[22:12] <Zarel> Noya: Is there a list of top 15 open source games or something?
[22:12] <Noya> Zarel: nope, I had to contact every single project
[22:12] <Zarel> That doesn't sound like a very impartial list.
[22:12] <Noya> Zarel: I wrote quite a large proposal for the idea to convince them to join the discussion
[22:13] <Noya> Zarel: well, the are now on the glou-mailinglist, if you mean that
[22:13] <KhaaL> Noya, how did the discussion go?
[22:13] <Zarel> Are you sure you invited the _right_ 15 projects? ;)
[22:13] <KhaaL> hehe
[22:13] <Noya> Zarel: have a look at the link I posted
[22:13] <Zarel> glou?
[22:13] <Noya> Zarel: under development/projects there is a list of projects we contacted
[22:13] <Noya> Zarel: yes, glou
[22:14] <Zarel> You'll have to give me a minute; my ISP is incompatible with the Internet.
[22:14] <Noya> KhaaL: very well, most people stated that the concept is great, they'll have a look on further development and want to see some code ;)
[22:14] <Noya> Zarel: :)
[22:14] <Zarel> Oh, I remember this!
[22:14] <Noya> Zarel: wohoo we are not dead :p
[22:15] <Zarel> This was the one in which one of our developers angrily burst in and demanded to know why we weren't on the list!
[22:15] <Noya> Zarel: so, what game are you from? ;)
[22:15] <Zarel> That's what "Contacted us on IRC" refers to. ;)
[22:16] <Zarel> By the way, wz2100.net/contact is a completely dead page.
[22:16] <KhaaL> guys, its time for me to crash
[22:16] <Zarel> Change the contact information to:
[22:16] <Zarel> https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/warzone-dev/
[22:16] <KhaaL> Noya, you're on the UG mailing list?
[22:16] <Noya> KhaaL: yes
[22:17] <KhaaL> great :)
[22:17] <Noya> KhaaL: I'd suppose we should talk again about the tournaments... how about you send a mail on the list describing a bit the situation, and I'll join the discussion there
[22:18] <Noya> okay people, I'm leaving
[22:18] <Noya> any last questions ;)
[22:18] <KhaaL> I'll do that, expect mailspam from me in the nearby future
[22:18] <Noya> ?
[22:18] <Noya> Zarel: I'll update the info, thanks