Brief introduction to the team, meeting, and theme if possible.
Team Page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/InsertTeamPage
Meeting Log(s): http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/ubuntu-meeting-2007-07-04.html
Meeting Chair: JonathanRiddell
Meeting Minutes by: RichardJohnson
The following were present during this meeting:
- Celeste Lyn Paul
The following people have requested and interview for membership:
- Celeste Lyn Paul
Congratulations to the following, for achieving membership status:
- Celeste Lyn Paul
Applicants Not Accepted
The following applicants have not been accepted at this time, however it is recommended that they continue working within the community, and apply again in the future. The Ubuntu Community greatly appreciates the commitment, dedication, and the work you have shown, and we request that you please try again in the future.
The following agendas were proposed for this meeting:
- How should we handle programs that need to install codecs? Do we want to just install kubuntu-restricted-extras, or do we want to patch every application so that it installs the required codecs with a dialog from the user?
- The amarok version of this is quite buggy - it breaks if you've disabled multiverse for some reason, and seems to crash on some systems.
- KDE debian/ dirs in Bzr- how do we want to handle this?
Meeting called to order at 14:00 UTC, by Meeting Chair, JonathanRiddell
/Kubuntu/Meetings/Minutes/2007-05-31 meeting minutes were amended and approved
The following is a break down of the entire meeting by agenda items.
Kubuntu Restricted Extras
04:08 Hobbsee We now have a kubuntu-restricted-extras package, which contains the main codecs needed on a kubuntu system 04:08 Riddell kubuntu-restricted-extras has java, lots of people don't want that for playing mp3s 04:08 allee about codecs: do we have developer time to inplement decicated codec loading? A volunteer 04:08 Tonio_ Riddell: then we should take care to get kio-umountwrapper to main :) the MIR is done, just reviewing is needed 04:08 Hobbsee Riddell: that's why they're as removes 04:08 Hobbsee Riddell: er, recommends 04:08 Hobbsee unfortunately, i'ts currently broken. 04:08 Riddell Tonio_: that's will pitti/kees/iwj only 04:08 Hobbsee Tonio_: OK, will poke. 04:09 Tonio_ Riddell: oki 04:09 Tonio_ Hobbsee: one thing I'd like to see fixed for the next tribe is adept 04:09 mhb allee: I'm afraid we don't 04:09 Tonio_ Hobbsee: the repo manager doesn't work anymore 04:09 Riddell Hobbsee: what else needs this added? just kaffeine? 04:10 allee mhb: so, makes not much sense to decide to patch every app ;) 04:10 Hobbsee Riddell: amarok, kaffeine, k3b, ... 04:10 Tonio_ Riddell: kmplayer too 04:10 Riddell Hobbsee: do we have a .desktop file in app-install-data for kubuntu-restricted-extras? 04:10 Hobbsee also konqueror, for the java, etc. 04:10 Riddell Tonio_: won't be in main for long? 04:10 Jucato btw, I think there were some people having problems with the script in amarok to install the codecs after the release of feisty... not sure if anyone filed bugs for it 04:10 allee can't we switch to gstreamer? AFAIU then we get codec loading almost for free? 04:10 Hobbsee Riddell: i doubt it. if we dont for ubuntu-restricted-extras either 04:10 Lure Tonio_: kmplayer is universe now? 04:10 Hobbsee Jucato: that's next 04:10 Tonio_ Riddell: it'll stay in main, I guess forever, I'll explain why later if you want 04:10 Riddell Hobbsee: I thought there was one 04:10 Jucato Hobbsee: oops sorry.. 04:11 Hobbsee Riddell: not sure, tbh. 04:11 Tonio_ Riddell: we cannot use kaffeine in konq by default, which saddens me soooooooooooo much 04:11 Hobbsee Riddell: will have to look 04:11 Hobbsee Tonio_: why? 04:11 Hobbsee Jucato: no problem 04:11 Tonio_ Hobbsee, Riddell: because of the plugin identification 04:11 Riddell Tonio_: how not? 04:11 Tonio_ kaffeine ident itself as kaffeine media player plugin 04:12 Tonio_ Riddell: kmplayer is able to ident as the standard windows plugin used for this kind of source 04:12 mhb allee: I agree with you, I had some talks with kaffeine upstream, they might consider a feature like that, but for KDE4 kaffeine 04:12 Hobbsee Tonio_: will come back to adept 04:12 Riddell Tonio_: interesting 04:12 Tonio_ Riddell: and a lot of website are doing plugin detection to display the video 04:12 Tonio_ Riddell: I tried to patch kaffeine to had this, but it didn't work, or only partially 04:13 Tonio_ Riddell: means the identification worked, but not any website could detect the "windows media player plugin" despite I could see it 04:13 Tonio_ Riddell: we need to discuss this with kaffeine upstream 04:13 Tonio_ and then replace kmplayer :) 04:13 Hobbsee The main questoin here is, do we want to patch each app to use each particular required codec separately, or do we want to jus tgrab k-r-e once 04:13 Riddell Hobbsee: without developers willing to do this I don't see much we can do 04:13 Hobbsee Riddell: where this == ? 04:13 Tonio_ so beeing stable is not enought for default inclusion, as it'll fail on a lot of websites 04:13 Tonio_ who try to detect "windows media player plugin" 04:14 mhb grabbing k-r-e would be logical if there were only codecs and not stuff like java 04:14 Riddell mhb: is k-r-e install suitable for restricted-manager? 04:14 waylandbill I had amarok crash (hang) loading mp3 codecs this morning. Wasn't able to reproduce so I didn't file a bug. 04:14 Tonio_ Hobbsee: remember the crappy "in the work" patch ? it was because of that problem :) 04:14 Hobbsee Tonio_: in the work? 04:14 Hobbsee Riddell: well, it's a metapackage. it's not a GUI 04:14 mhb Riddell: restricted-manager is for drivers/firmware only 04:14 Hobbsee someone's coding a restricted-manager though. 04:14 Tonio_ the patch I shouldn't have upload because it caused a lot of issues ? :) you fixed that upload 04:14 Hobbsee Tonio_: oh, that one. 04:15 Tonio_ yep, the patch was an attempt for the plugin identification, which worked 60%, but I couldn't find why the websites couldn't detect it 04:15 allee Riddell: didn't the ubuntu guys use a patched gstreamer for codec reinstall? So when we switch to gstreamer too ..? 04:15 Riddell allee: yes, absolutely 04:16 mhb err, is switching to gstreamer something that has been discussed? 04:16 allee Tonio_: how's gstreamer working with the kde apps? 04:16 Tonio_ mhb: dozens :) 04:16 Riddell mhb: no go for kde 3, kde 4 sure once phonon has the plugin 04:16 Tonio_ allee: kaffeine : not as good as xine, but works 04:16 Riddell but remember gstreamer doesn't do dvd menus and I don't know how good the w32codecs support is 04:16 Tonio_ allee: amarok : no gst support :'( 04:16 Tonio_ kmplayer : very nice support 04:17 allee okay so we have to wait for KDE4 04:17 Riddell allee: yes 04:17 mhb Riddell: I wouldn't vote for gstreamer if it meant losing features 04:17 Tonio_ allee: yep, wait for phonon 04:18 Hobbsee Riddell: i guess i'm more interested in finding if there are any developers who are interested in doing this 04:18 Riddell Hobbsee: should we install all of k-r-e with amarok? 04:18 allee In this light the only workable solutions would be to down load k-r-e 04:18 Hobbsee Riddell: when the recommends are working, sure. 04:18 Hobbsee at the moment, it's an empty package :) 04:18 mhb Hobbsee: if we want to download k-r-e, I'd try to make the package as small as possible === Hobbsee shoudl test out this apt about it 04:18 mhb Hobbsee: how big it is, with java and all? 04:18 Hobbsee mhb: that's why i only left the core codecs in 04:18 Hobbsee not sure 04:19 Hobbsee sarah@LongPointyStick:~$ apt-cache show kubuntu-restricted-extras | grep Recommends 04:19 Hobbsee Recommends: flashplugin-nonfree, sun-java6-plugin, libxine1-ffmpeg, libdvdread3, libk3b2-mp3, liblame0, unrar 04:19 mhb Hobbsee: is the java still in there? 04:19 Hobbsee yes 04:19 Hobbsee i dont know, size-wise 04:19 Riddell we need to move on 04:19 Hobbsee Riddell: true, but the next issue depends on this 04:19 Riddell I don't think anyone has expertese/time to work on this, it involves playing with upstream in difficult ways 04:20 mhb I'm against installing java without the user requesting it === Hobbsee nods === dthacker agrees from the sidelines 04:20 allee jave -> suggests :) 04:20 mhb Hobbsee: can't we do a kubuntu-restricted-codecs metapackage or something? 04:20 Hobbsee mhb: that's what it is 04:21 mhb Hobbsee: java isn't a codec :o) 04:21 Riddell I'd say we get a .desktop file in app-install-data 04:21 Riddell that way it's easy for all to install 04:21 Hobbsee Riddell: sounds sane. which requires me finding out how to write one. but OK 04:21 Tonio_ Riddell: ++ 04:22 Hobbsee in that case, what do we want to do about the amarok install mp3 script? 04:22 Hobbsee it's in bash, and seems to fail for a fair few people 04:22 mhb Riddell: that means = don't patch anything? 04:22 Riddell Hobbsee: just add and install somewhere and it should get picked up on upload 04:22 Riddell Hobbsee: keep it 04:22 Riddell mhb: not unless people are willing to do it 04:22 Hobbsee it doesnt account for if a user has disabled multiverse, and seems generally not-robust 04:23 Lure Hobbsee: multiverse/universe is enabled by default since feisty, right? 04:23 Riddell Lure: yes 04:23 Hobbsee Lure: it is, but some users will disable it 04:23 Hobbsee Lure: what disturbs me more is how it just seems to hang amarok, etc. 04:23 Hobbsee there's a tribe 3 bug on it, unless Riddell removed the tribe 3 milestone completely while i wasnt there 04:23 Tonio_ Hobbsee: I'd say it differently 04:23 Riddell not I 04:24 Hobbsee Tonio_: how so? 04:24 Tonio_ Riddell, Hobbsee: who will disable multiverse ? 04:24 Riddell Freedom Lovers! 04:24 Hobbsee users. some. for some unknown reason 04:24 Hobbsee and the freedom lovers 04:24 Riddell (and people who want support) 04:24 Tonio_ Riddell: aka geeks 04:24 Hobbsee https://launchpad.net/~ubuntumembers/+members is the relevant bug 04:24 Tonio_ Riddell: and a geek doesn't use amarok's script to install it's codecs :) 04:24 Tonio_ Riddell: nore has mp3 files on his computer 04:24 Hobbsee my point is that this should not randomly fail, and it should not up and die fi they have mutliverse disabled 04:25 Tonio_ Riddell: and btw doesn't use app-install/adept 04:25 Hobbsee Tonio_: sure they do - it comes up automatically if they try to play a mp3 for some reason. if they downloaded one 04:25 Tonio_ Hobbsee: okay 04:25 Tonio_ Hobbsee: you are a freedom lover === Hobbsee shrugs 04:25 Tonio_ Hobbsee: you hate proprietary formats, so you disable multiverse 04:25 Hobbsee i prefer my system to work, tyvm. 04:25 Tonio_ Hobbsee: would you play an mp3 file then ? 04:25 kwwii for normal users, when you click the button it should "just work" 04:25 Jucato hm... is this about the mp3 script in amarok? 04:26 Tonio_ probably not, and if it doesn't work, consider it is your fault 04:26 allee Hobbsee: wouldn't if ! apt-cache policy <pkgs> then; exit; fi # fix it? 04:26 Hobbsee Tonio_: if i'd not realised that it was a mp3, or something, probably 04:26 dthacker Jucato: yes 04:26 Lure allee: exactly 04:26 Hobbsee Jucato: yes 04:26 Tonio_ Hobbsee: then you are a geek, you changed settings, that's your problem :) 04:26 Hobbsee Tonio_: granted, but the scritp should not be that flimsy that it dies. 04:26 Jucato iirc, libxine-extracodecs just points to libxine1-ffmpeg in main since feisty right? why does it need multiverse to be enabled? 04:26 Tonio_ Hobbsee: agree on that point 04:27 Tonio_ Jucato: it doesn't 04:27 Hobbsee it seems it particularly dies when you say "no" 04:27 Tonio_ Hobbsee: which is a problem 04:27 Hobbsee Jucato: oh, point 04:27 Hobbsee Tonio_: exactly 04:27 Jucato Tonio_: 04:27 Jucato er.. 04:27 Jucato http://packages.ubuntu.com/feisty/libs/libxine-extracodecs 04:27 Lure Jucato: correct - we can have amarok mp3 by defaul 04:28 Tonio_ Lure: no we can't 04:28 Jucato er it's in universe lol sorry 04:28 Riddell Hobbsee: why is this milestoned for tribe 3? it can wait until feature freeze and we're in bug mode no? === Jucato could have sworn it was in main :P 04:28 Tonio_ Lure: I already discussed with -devel guys on that point 04:28 Hobbsee Riddell: sure it can, but it's to remind me, and preferably get it fixed sooner than that, so people test. 04:28 Riddell Hobbsee: I'm happy to fix it but not until after feature freeze 04:28 Tonio_ Lure: it is in main for technical reasons, but we can't ship it by default becauseof licencing issues 04:28 Tonio_ Lure: in fact that shouldn't be in main :) 04:29 Hobbsee Riddell: OK, will assign it to you 04:29 Hobbsee Riddell: excellent, thankyou :) 04:29 Riddell groovy
Konversation changes by Kubuntu
04:29 Hobbsee *** No one has seemed to have actioned the points Sho_ (konversation) raised in the last meeting - who wants to do this? 04:30 Hobbsee at least, the k-d-s settings havent been changed 04:30 Riddell oh, ellen gave a non commital answer but seemed to say that listview at the side was better than tabs 04:30 Hobbsee right 04:30 Riddell as did johnflux another occational konversation developer 04:30 Riddell imbrandon did say he did the other changes 04:30 Hobbsee i seem to remember we agreed to the other points though, which still seem to be in there? 04:30 Tonio_ Riddell: talking about that, I don't want to switch back to the default theme 04:30 Riddell but imbrandon seems to not be 100% reliable currently 04:31 Tonio_ Riddell: we probably want a "human readeable theme" by default, which the default konversation isn't 04:31 Hobbsee Riddell: hwo does imbrandon fit into this, sorry? === Jucato agrees with Tonio_ 04:31 Tonio_ Riddell: I wouldn't be inclined to change this 04:31 Riddell Hobbsee: he told me once he had made the required changes and was going to upload 04:31 Riddell ages ago this was 04:31 Hobbsee ah right 04:31 Jucato but the other suggestion was that we could probably help in making a better nicklist theme 04:31 Hobbsee it seems that he hasnt, so someone else needs to 04:32 Tonio_ Jucato: if we can find any better, okay, but not the default konversation is shipped wuth 04:32 Tonio_ wth 04:32 Hobbsee Jucato: true. i suspect kwwii's far too busy for it 04:32 Tonio_ rahhhhhhhh !! with 04:32 Tonio_ Hobbsee: can you remind me what is the problem with the current one ? 04:32 Jucato Tonio_: yeah. I don't like it either and have continually "discussed" that topic with Sho_ :) 04:32 Jucato Tonio_: iirc it was the quality of that theme 04:32 Tonio_ Jucato: it is simple, nice looking and icons are explicit to what they mean 04:33 Tonio_ what is the problem with it ? seriously ? 04:33 Hobbsee Tonio_: i dont have the direct link for sho_'s complaints about it === Jucato checks logs 04:33 Tonio_ Hobbsee: in my opinion, there is the upstream work and the distro work === Hobbsee has lost all logs since then 04:33 Hobbsee Tonio_: this is true. but upstream says "we want you to use this. only". as for why they havent removed the others then, i have no idea... 04:33 Tonio_ it is not the first time guy from konversation are complaining about the fact we're changing the defualt settings, and that honnestly drives me nuts 04:34 Tonio_ Hobbsee: they make things configurable, we configure them 04:34 Tonio_ Hobbsee: we respect the gpl, that's it 04:34 Hobbsee Tonio_: feel free to take it up with Sho_. 04:34 Tonio_ Hobbsee: if they don't want us to 'implement' it as we want, they can do proprietary software 04:34 Hobbsee Tonio_: no point doing it now, as Sho_ isnt here. he's on #konversation now though 04:34 Jucato to be fair, upstream's concern is that problems in Konversation introduced in Kubuntu usually gets thrown back at them 04:34 Tonio_ Hobbsee: especially as we're not changing it a lot 04:35 Tonio_ Hobbsee: can you imaging how much more are we twinking konqueror for example ? 04:35 Hobbsee Jucato: true that. which is why i'ts improtant to actually check k-d-s changes, which is still on my todo list 04:35 imbrandon honestly sho isnt on the kubuntu team and we follow the gpl === imbrandon idles again 04:35 Tonio_ Jucato: that's a problem with ALL free softwares 04:35 Jucato Tonio_: "* Kubuntu has selected a different default nicklist theme from the set of themes we ship with Konversation. While we continue to ship that theme for legacy reasons, we be- lieve it is graphically poorly done and would prefer it if Kubuntu switched back to our default. Alternatively, we'd certainly look forward to artwork contributions from Kubuntu's artwork community if it has other things in mind. In particular, the issues 04:35 Jucato with the chosen theme are that the colour palette doesn't fit into either KDE or Kubuntu defaults, and that the serif typography looks outdated. - form Sho_ 04:35 Tonio_ Jucato: so what should we do ? stopping implementations ? 04:35 Hobbsee Tonio_: true that. i'm still not exactly convinced that's a good idea. 04:35 Tonio_ okay let's stop kubuntu then, no need of a distro 04:36 Jucato Tonio_: I don't necessarily agree with some of the suggestions (like the nicklist theme). but after all, they are just suggestions :) 04:36 allee Tonio_: I don't remember details. But Sho_ may have a point. We listen, then agree or not. 04:36 imbrandon Jucato, thats our problems not thiers, they want to be involved in kubuntu then invite them to take the time to contrib, instead of bitching from afar ( upstream ) === imbrandon stops 04:36 Jucato :) 04:36 Tonio_ allee: I'm not against sho expecially, he may be right this time, but as imbrandon and I already had problems in the past.... 04:36 Hobbsee Jucato: did you have that website link? 04:36 Tonio_ I remember imbrandon getting mad on the channel because of this 04:37 Jucato Hobbsee: http://konversation.kde.org/kubuntu-issues.txt 04:37 Hobbsee Jucato: thanks 04:37 Jucato (it was in the minutes) 04:37 Tonio_ the sysray one.......... argh ! 04:37 Jucato heh :) 04:37 Hobbsee yay, be rid of the systray! === Hobbsee thought that was decided last meeting 04:37 Tonio_ Hobbsee: NO 04:37 Tonio_ ;) 04:37 Hobbsee say it with me Riddell, "system tray icons are EVIL!!!" 04:38 Riddell oh yes 04:38 Tonio_ Hobbsee: konversation is exactly the kind of application for which systray is usefull 04:38 Tonio_ Hobbsee: you open it in the morning and then wait, as you do with kopete 04:38 Lure Tonio_: fully afree 04:38 Hobbsee Riddell: we could just outvote him... *g* 04:38 Lure agree even 04:38 Tonio_ Hobbsee: all chat/email clients usually have systray enable by default, because you don't run them for 10 minutes only 04:38 Tonio_ it is the kind of apps that runs everytime in the background 04:39 imbrandon honestly i'm of the opinion that if we just package vanalla upstream packages there is no reason for kubuntu then, anyhow i am at work and cant constructively contribute to the convo right now 04:39 kwwii Tonio_: geeks just start a thousand programs and leave them all running === claydoh likes the systray 04:39 allee Tonio_: minimizing it would serve the same purpose === _marseillais agree with Tonio_ for systray 04:39 claydoh icon 04:39 Tonio_ allee: no, certainly not 04:39 Tonio_ allee: cause it'll be merged with the all programs you are running 04:40 Tonio_ allee: systray isolates background based apps, like kopete, knetworkmanager etc...... 04:40 Tonio_ allee: ALL chat based apps run in the systray 04:40 Tonio_ allee: o reason to change that 04:40 Tonio_ allee: and btw everyone is free to change the default settings, it is just a matter of default 04:40 allee Tonio_: to be honest: I agree with you 04:40 Tonio_ we're not removing the functionnality right ? 04:40 Jucato why don't we justify having a systray icon based on its (intended) purpose instead of just saying that all other chat apps do it? for example, it serves as notification (which is the original intention of the system tray anyway) === allee hopes systray icons stays 04:41 Tonio_ I'll tell you something, I don't use it in the systray, but I'm really convicinced, that's the way the average people are waiting to use it 04:41 Tonio_ and I can argue on every point in the list.... 04:41 kwwii if we get rid of that one we should also get rid of the kontact, basket, and korganizer ones as well === Jucato would love to have a unified kontact systray icon instead :) 04:42 Lure Tonio_: do you knwo about c++ patch for server setting - this is the only one I agree it may be too much from upstream 04:42 Tonio_ but well let's not waste time on this, I propose that we discuss together about what to do on -devel channel, let's apply the wanted changes, and write a nice response to the konversation team 04:42 Tonio_ Lure: which one ? to switch to irc.ubuntu.com by default ? 04:42 Hobbsee Tonio_: mailing list is even better 04:42 Tonio_ Hobbsee: sure 04:42 Hobbsee Tonio_: we do it in konversationrc and in the c++ patch 04:42 allee Tonio_: how about copying the text file to the wiki and adding your points. I'll do so too. Just collecting pro/cons. NOOOO flaming. Then we can decide in next mmeetingn 04:42 Lure Tonio_: yes, why patch? 04:43 Tonio_ Hobbsee: what about people that use konversation on gnome ? :) 04:43 Tonio_ that's why we are doing the fix twice 04:43 Hobbsee Tonio_: then they really want to join #ubuntu 04:43 Lure Tonio_: we should not care about them 04:43 Hobbsee or are just confused individuals 04:43 Tonio_ Lure: I can remove that patch 04:43 Lure hi seele 04:43 Tonio_ Lure: to be honnest I was asked to patch, of course my first action has been to do that in kds 04:43 Hobbsee in which case we want to send them to #white-padded-room *g* 04:43 seele hallo 04:44 Tonio_ can't we discuss this later ? it'll take hours to debate everything ;) 04:44 Riddell let's move on, we can do the non-controvertial changes and debate the others at leisure 04:44 Riddell I'll do the changes to konversation if nobody else has by the time akademy is over 04:44 Tonio_ Riddell: I can do it 04:45 Hobbsee Tonio_: we should probably figure out Bzr stuff elsewhere, and provide a solution to the rest of the people. as long as they actually read the mailing list, and obey it. 04:45 Tonio_ Riddell: but I'd like that we debate once and for all on what to change/remove 04:45 Riddell Tonio_: ta 04:45 Tonio_ Riddell, Hobbsee: added to my todo
04:53 Riddell Hobbsee: next item? 04:53 Hobbsee Tonio_: the multimedia packages? 04:53 Tonio_ okay, what should we do with the /media vs media:/ patch ? 04:54 Tonio_ there are still LOTS of issues against those patch, most of them probably won't be fixed 04:54 Tonio_ simple example : on my laptop, without any usb key and cd in : 04:54 Tonio_ http://tonio.homelinux.org/temp/capture14.png 04:54 Tonio_ on the left : /media -> ugly and confusing, missing things (hard drives) 04:55 Tonio_ on the right : media:/ complete, showing what's needed, and "human readable" 04:55 Tonio_ also, there are lots of issues arrount the desktop icons I could describe 04:55 Tonio_ those patches have always create more issues than they resolve 04:56 Tonio_ and btw, all documentation you might find on the web about kde and media things don't work for kubuntu, witch is also a problem 04:56 Tonio_ I wold propose to get rid of that patch, as most of those issues aren't fixable, confirmed by Sime 04:56 imbrandon or will be fixed with dolphin in 4 04:57 imbrandon not that that helps now 04:57 Tonio_ about the screenshot, don't forget there is no cd of usb key on my laptop, which is a non sense 04:58 Riddell simon isn't around the akademy labs just now 04:58 Riddell I can talk to him about this when he gets back 04:58 Riddell but I'm ok with removing them if that makes things better 04:58 Tonio_ Riddell: sure, but as I said, I already discussed wit him on that point and there is no way to fix /media 04:58 Riddell it's more a polite thing to discuss before removing his hard work :) 04:59 Tonio_ the only fixable part is the desktop icons, but even on that point there are strange issues, as for example the icon sometimes disapears to switch back to folder one, which makes the device unmountable 04:59 Tonio_ Riddell: of course 04:59 Riddell next item? 04:59 Tonio_ Riddell: his work is a matter of 3 patches, my proposal is to remove one of them only :) 04:59 Tonio_ Riddell: the other part of the simplicitation he has done is nice 05:00 Riddell Tonio_: I'm sure he'll be back soon, you, me and him can discuss in a bit 05:00 Tonio_ oki
Packages in Bzr
Put on hold
05:00 Riddell Hobbsee: what's next?
05:00 Hobbsee Riddell: discussions on packages in bzr, but i havent spoken to Tonio_ about this first, so am happy to leave it.
Who wants to go to UDS Boston?
05:00 Riddell UDS, who wants to come?
05:01 imbrandon boston ?
05:01 Riddell yes
05:01 Hobbsee Riddell: boston? not me, i'm afraid, although i suspect i'll be needing to anyway
05:01 imbrandon i had planned on it as the next release cycle i will have MUCH MUCH more time
05:01 Tonio_ Riddell: I'd like to especially since talking about an LTS release, but there is no chance for me I guess :'(
05:01 Hobbsee Riddell: boston+1, i want to come.
05:01 Riddell we're biased towards those in the americas I believe
05:01 imbrandon if i can
05:01 imbrandon i had planned on it as the next release cycle i will have MUCH MUCH more time
05:01 imbrandon err yea
05:01 Riddell imbrandon: ok, I'll put you down
05:01 eagles0513875 hey
05:01 Hobbsee Riddell: please put Tonio_ in my place, if you can. he does need to be there.
05:02 kwwii have we invited seele?
05:02 Riddell kwwii: we should :)
05:02 kwwii I'll do that then
05:02 Riddell ta
=== Hobbsee grumbles about not being able to meet seele on that basis.
05:02 Hobbsee Riddell: how many kubuntu places do you have?
05:02 Hobbsee oh wait, she counts as KDE :P
05:02 Riddell kwwii: no official invites at this stage as I understand, just asking if people are interested
05:02 Riddell Hobbsee: no idea how many places
05:02 Hobbsee right
05:03 Riddell three or four I guess
05:03 Hobbsee right
05:03 kwwii Riddell: right, that is what I meant: I will ask her if she is interested :-)
Qt Jambi Packaging
05:04 Riddell is anyone interested in packaging Qt Jambi?
05:04 Riddell java bindings
05:04 imbrandon against gcj or sun ?
05:04 Tonio_ Riddell: I can have a look
05:04 Riddell Tonio_: don't overload yourself :)
05:04 Tonio_ Riddell: I don't have "that" many things to do
05:04 Riddell imbrandon: not sure, gcj if it manages I guess
05:05 Tonio_ Riddell: well acutally I have a lot, but in a few weeks (2 or 3) I may have time for this :)
05:05 Riddell Tonio_: there's some build issues, ask tronical (Simon haussman) for more information
05:05 imbrandon i'm not great at java stuff but i can help along with someone else if they need/want it
05:05 Riddell ok, Tonio_ and imbrandon to do that
05:05 Tonio_ Riddell: okay, will do that then
05:05 Riddell spec update: how are we getting on?
05:05 Riddell kde4-system-settings is in trunk, woo
05:06 Riddell Tonio_: how is dolphin-by-default?
05:06 Tonio_ Riddell: okay so here is the point :
05:06 Tonio_ we need to get 0.9 in, for which I have packages, but there is an issue with the naming change
05:06 Tonio_ upstream wouldn't like me to rename the all app from d3lphin to dolphin
05:07 Riddell but d3lphin is a horrible name for users to see, the menu item should be dolphin
05:07 Tonio_ second point : we need some bit of code in the kcm app chooser to be able to switch from konqueror to dolphin
05:07 Tonio_ that can be done easilly by changing the inode/directory mimetype association
05:07 Tonio_ beeing able to select the default with the standard tool is a requirement I'd say
05:08 Tonio_ Riddell: do you agree ?
05:08 Riddell Tonio_: I agree
05:08 Tonio_ third point : Ark
05:08 Tonio_ dolphin doesn't understand konqueror plugins, only servicemenus
05:09 Tonio_ we have to write a nice one, but servicemenus have a problem : they are not dynamic, so we can't add options depending the installed compression tools installed on the machine, like unrar for example
05:09 Tonio_ I must say I don't see a solution on that point
05:09 Riddell Tonio_: I don't care that much, you still get ark if you left click on it
05:10 Tonio_ Riddell: you don't..... that's the problem
05:10 Riddell what do you get?
05:10 Tonio_ Riddell: will only work with tar.gz by default
05:10 Tonio_ nothing with zip, rar etc....
05:10 Riddell well ark should be associated with rar files then
05:10 Tonio_ Riddell: and what if you want to compress a file or folder ? :)
05:10 Riddell I'm talking about uncompressing
05:11 Riddell for compressing you can open ark yourself
05:11 Tonio_ Riddell: you talk about doubleclicking the file ?
05:11 Tonio_ Riddell: that way yes it works
05:11 Riddell Tonio_: yes
05:11 Riddell so voila
05:12 Tonio_ but that not very nice in my opinion
05:12 Riddell right click menus aren't the best UI for most things
05:12 Tonio_ Riddell: I need to investigate how this works on kde4
05:12 Tonio_ maybe there is just a super servicemenu written :)
05:12 Riddell Tonio_: keyboard-accessibility, how's that?
05:12 Riddell abattoir: are you still planning to do onboard?
05:12 Tonio_ no work on that point at the moment, but that's planed on my own
05:12 Tonio_ Riddell: will tell you more next meeting
05:13 Riddell kwwii: kubuntu-artwork-gusty (a spec I just invented), how's it getting on
05:13 Riddell a new background would be nice
05:13 Riddell mhb: how's restricted-manager doing?
05:13 kwwii Riddell: yeah, I wanted to get a new bg and change the window deco colors
05:14 kwwii I think I messed up the colors in Feisty ;-(
Membership - Celeste Lyn Paul
04:44 Riddell seele: able to give yourself a couple line introduction?
04:45 Hobbsee but seele's membership... :)
=== Hobbsee hands the mic to seele
=== seele takes the mic
04:45 seele what do i say?
04:45 Riddell seele: what you've done in the ubuntu world
04:45 seele ah
04:45 seele well most of my work has been in the capacity of kde
04:46 seele i participated in UDS last fall and helped address some usability/interface stuff
04:46 seele i also started working on a GUI with mhb for GRUB (which hasnt been released for technical reasons)
04:46 seele also, this past spring i conducted user testing on the kubuntu version of ubiquity
04:46 seele and just recently provided the results to the community
04:47 seele i think working with kubuntu is a great way for me to work with other open source projects and maximize the time i can spend on kde :)
04:47 Riddell evand will pick that up, probably after freature freeze
04:47 seele plus kubuntu is just the bestest distro ever, so why not?
04:47 seele ok
04:47 Riddell :)
04:47 imbrandon :)
04:47 Jucato :)
04:47 claydoh :)
=== allee add another :)
04:47 Riddell any questions for seele?
04:47 Dimple :)
04:48 dthacker yes, it is!
04:48 Riddell I know her well enough from conferences
=== Hobbsee attempts to think of one that she can ask
04:48 Lure I would like to point out that ubiquity usability report is really great
04:48 Hobbsee seele: will you be in boston+1?
04:48 Jucato are non-council members allowed to ask? :)
=== imbrandon cheerleads for seele ( nto that she needs it ) just cuz she is super cool at the confrences and blogs and seen tons of cool stuff from her
04:48 Lure I really hope some improvements will be done for gutsy
04:48 Riddell Jucato: of course
04:48 seele Hobbsee: i didnt know about boston+1 but probably since its in my time zone ;)
04:49 Hobbsee seele: boston+1 is in an unknown location, isnt it? :P
=== allee knows here from blogs
04:49 seele oh right
04:49 seele lol
04:49 Riddell Hobbsee: in or around MIT uni mid-november I think
04:49 Hobbsee Riddell: boston*+1*
04:49 Hobbsee as in, the one after boston.
04:49 Jucato seele: are you considering making a general usability review of Kubuntu? :)
04:49 Riddell oh, no idea
=== Hobbsee wow. people dont read today :P
04:49 kwwii actually, it is in the first week of november
04:49 Hobbsee Jucato: yes
04:49 seele Jucato: well.. it depends on what you means of "Kubuntu" because most of it is KDE
04:50 Riddell Jucato: that would need to be a KDE job (and since seele has been doing KDE 4 HIG...)
04:50 seele Jucato: i generally have a rule that if i dont think my work will be considered (let alone implemented) ill use my time on something else
04:50 seele yeah
04:50 seele all of KDE is a lot of work
04:50 Jucato seele: well, specifically the Kubuntu-specific ones/changes (like Konqueror? :)
04:50 seele thats what ive been trying to do for the past three years with them, hehe
04:50 seele Jucato: sure, if someone asks for it
04:50 Jucato :)
04:50 Riddell konqueror in KDE 4 is a lot like in kubuntu now
=== Tonio_ nods !!!
04:51 Riddell so, let's vote on seele
04:51 Tonio_ seele: +1 for me
04:51 Riddell +1
04:51 Hobbsee +1 for me, no questoin
04:51 Jucato (+3 from me, if I had voting powers)
04:51 imbrandon +25 from me ( but i dont count on this vote hehe )
04:51 Lure +1 from me based on great work until now
04:51 Riddell kwwii, nixternal, allee?
04:52 kwwii +1 from me
04:52 jsgotangco +1 for a super CC vote (if that counts)
=== jsgotangco hides
04:52 Riddell well, that's enough, congratulations seele on Kubuntu (and also Ubuntu) membership
04:52 seele thanks
=== allee +1 of course
04:52 Tonio_ seele: congrats :)
04:52 imbrandon ( seele now i can legitly add your blog to the planet , lol )
04:52 Jucato congrats seele! :)
04:52 Riddell imbrandon: please do
04:52 imbrandon congrats :)
04:52 seele soo.. now what? do i need to so anything?
04:52 kwwii conrgratulation, now get to work!
04:52 seele kwwii: lol
04:52 kwwii :-)
04:52 Riddell no, someone will add you to the kubuntu-members team
04:53 cynics seele: congrats
04:53 seele ok