The following is a break down of the entire meeting by agenda items.

Kubuntu Restricted Extras

04:08  Hobbsee  We now have a kubuntu-restricted-extras package, which contains the main codecs needed on a kubuntu system
04:08  Riddell  kubuntu-restricted-extras has java, lots of people don't want that for playing mp3s
04:08  allee  about codecs: do we have developer time to inplement decicated codec loading?  A volunteer
04:08  Tonio_  Riddell: then we should take care to get kio-umountwrapper to main :) the MIR is done, just reviewing is needed
04:08  Hobbsee  Riddell: that's why they're as removes
04:08  Hobbsee  Riddell: er, recommends
04:08  Hobbsee  unfortunately, i'ts currently broken.
04:08  Riddell  Tonio_: that's will pitti/kees/iwj only
04:08  Hobbsee  Tonio_: OK, will poke.
04:09  Tonio_  Riddell: oki
04:09  Tonio_  Hobbsee: one thing I'd like to see fixed for the next tribe is adept
04:09  mhb  allee: I'm afraid we don't
04:09  Tonio_  Hobbsee: the repo manager doesn't work anymore
04:09  Riddell  Hobbsee: what else needs this added?  just kaffeine?
04:10  allee  mhb: so, makes not much sense to decide to patch every app ;)
04:10  Hobbsee  Riddell: amarok, kaffeine, k3b, ...
04:10  Tonio_  Riddell: kmplayer too
04:10  Riddell  Hobbsee: do we have a .desktop file in app-install-data for kubuntu-restricted-extras?
04:10  Hobbsee  also konqueror, for the java, etc.
04:10  Riddell  Tonio_: won't be in main for long?
04:10  Jucato  btw, I think there were some people having problems with the script in amarok to install the codecs after the release of feisty... not sure if anyone filed bugs for it
04:10  allee  can't we switch to gstreamer?  AFAIU then we get codec loading almost for free?
04:10  Hobbsee  Riddell: i doubt it.  if we dont for ubuntu-restricted-extras either
04:10  Lure  Tonio_: kmplayer is universe now?
04:10  Hobbsee  Jucato: that's next
04:10  Tonio_  Riddell: it'll stay in main, I guess forever, I'll explain why later if you want
04:10  Riddell  Hobbsee: I thought there was one
04:10  Jucato  Hobbsee: oops sorry..
04:11  Hobbsee  Riddell: not sure, tbh.
04:11  Tonio_  Riddell: we cannot use kaffeine in konq by default, which saddens me soooooooooooo much
04:11  Hobbsee  Riddell: will have to look
04:11  Hobbsee  Tonio_: why?
04:11  Hobbsee  Jucato: no problem
04:11  Tonio_  Hobbsee, Riddell: because of the plugin identification
04:11  Riddell  Tonio_: how not?
04:11  Tonio_  kaffeine ident itself as kaffeine media player plugin
04:12  Tonio_  Riddell: kmplayer is able to ident as the standard windows plugin used for this kind of source
04:12  mhb  allee: I agree with you, I had some talks with kaffeine upstream, they might consider a feature like that, but for KDE4 kaffeine
04:12  Hobbsee  Tonio_: will come back to adept
04:12  Riddell  Tonio_: interesting
04:12  Tonio_  Riddell: and a lot of website are doing plugin detection to display the video
04:12  Tonio_  Riddell: I tried to patch kaffeine to had this, but it didn't work, or only partially
04:13  Tonio_  Riddell: means the identification worked, but not any website could detect the "windows media player plugin" despite I could see it
04:13  Tonio_  Riddell: we need to discuss this with kaffeine upstream
04:13  Tonio_  and then replace kmplayer :)
04:13  Hobbsee  The main questoin here is, do we want to patch each app to use each particular required codec separately, or do we want to jus tgrab k-r-e once
04:13  Riddell  Hobbsee: without developers willing to do this I don't see much we can do
04:13  Hobbsee  Riddell: where this == ?
04:13  Tonio_  so beeing stable is not enought for default inclusion, as it'll fail on a lot of websites
04:13  Tonio_  who try to detect "windows media player plugin"
04:14  mhb  grabbing k-r-e would be logical if there were only codecs and not stuff like java
04:14  Riddell  mhb: is k-r-e install suitable for restricted-manager?
04:14  waylandbill  I had amarok crash (hang) loading mp3 codecs this morning. Wasn't able to reproduce so I didn't file a bug.
04:14  Tonio_  Hobbsee: remember the crappy "in the work" patch ? it was because of that problem :)
04:14  Hobbsee  Tonio_: in the work?
04:14  Hobbsee  Riddell: well, it's a metapackage.  it's not a GUI
04:14  mhb  Riddell: restricted-manager is for drivers/firmware only
04:14  Hobbsee  someone's coding a restricted-manager though.
04:14  Tonio_  the patch I shouldn't have upload because it caused a lot of issues ? :) you fixed that upload
04:14  Hobbsee  Tonio_: oh, that one.
04:15  Tonio_  yep, the patch was an attempt for the plugin identification, which worked 60%, but I couldn't find why the websites couldn't detect it
04:15  allee  Riddell: didn't the ubuntu guys use a patched gstreamer for codec reinstall?  So when we switch to gstreamer too ..?
04:15  Riddell  allee: yes, absolutely
04:16  mhb  err, is switching to gstreamer something that has been discussed?
04:16  allee  Tonio_: how's gstreamer working with the kde apps?
04:16  Tonio_  mhb: dozens :)
04:16  Riddell  mhb: no go for kde 3, kde 4 sure once phonon has the plugin
04:16  Tonio_  allee: kaffeine : not as good as xine, but works
04:16  Riddell  but remember gstreamer doesn't do dvd menus and I don't know how good the w32codecs support is
04:16  Tonio_  allee: amarok : no gst support :'(
04:16  Tonio_  kmplayer : very nice support
04:17  allee  okay so we have to wait for KDE4
04:17  Riddell  allee: yes
04:17  mhb  Riddell: I wouldn't vote for gstreamer if it meant losing features
04:17  Tonio_  allee: yep, wait for phonon
04:18  Hobbsee  Riddell: i guess i'm more interested in finding if there are any developers who are interested in doing this
04:18  Riddell  Hobbsee: should we install all of k-r-e with amarok?
04:18  allee  In this light the only workable solutions would be to down load k-r-e
04:18  Hobbsee  Riddell: when the recommends are working, sure.
04:18  Hobbsee  at the moment, it's an empty package :)
04:18  mhb  Hobbsee: if we want to download k-r-e, I'd try to make the package as small as possible
=== Hobbsee shoudl test out this apt about it
04:18  mhb  Hobbsee: how big it is, with java and all?
04:18  Hobbsee  mhb: that's why i only left the core codecs in
04:18  Hobbsee  not sure
04:19  Hobbsee  sarah@LongPointyStick:~$ apt-cache show kubuntu-restricted-extras | grep Recommends
04:19  Hobbsee  Recommends: flashplugin-nonfree, sun-java6-plugin, libxine1-ffmpeg, libdvdread3, libk3b2-mp3, liblame0, unrar
04:19  mhb  Hobbsee: is the java still in there?
04:19  Hobbsee  yes
04:19  Hobbsee  i dont know, size-wise
04:19  Riddell  we need to move on
04:19  Hobbsee  Riddell: true, but the next issue depends on this
04:19  Riddell  I don't think anyone has expertese/time to work on this, it involves playing with upstream in difficult ways
04:20  mhb  I'm against installing java without the user requesting it
=== Hobbsee nods
=== dthacker agrees from the sidelines
04:20  allee  jave -> suggests :)
04:20  mhb  Hobbsee: can't we do a kubuntu-restricted-codecs metapackage or something?
04:20  Hobbsee  mhb: that's what it is
04:21  mhb  Hobbsee: java isn't a codec :o)
04:21  Riddell  I'd say we get a .desktop file in app-install-data
04:21  Riddell  that way it's easy for all to install
04:21  Hobbsee  Riddell: sounds sane.  which requires me finding out how to write one.  but OK
04:21  Tonio_  Riddell: ++
04:22  Hobbsee  in that case, what do we want to do about the amarok install mp3 script?
04:22  Hobbsee  it's in bash, and seems to fail for a fair few people
04:22  mhb  Riddell:  that means = don't patch anything?
04:22  Riddell  Hobbsee: just add and install somewhere and it should get picked up on upload
04:22  Riddell  Hobbsee: keep it
04:22  Riddell  mhb: not unless people are willing to do it
04:22  Hobbsee  it doesnt account for if a user has disabled multiverse, and seems generally not-robust
04:23  Lure  Hobbsee: multiverse/universe is enabled by default since feisty, right?
04:23  Riddell  Lure: yes
04:23  Hobbsee  Lure: it is, but some users will disable it
04:23  Hobbsee  Lure: what disturbs me more is how it just seems to hang amarok, etc.
04:23  Hobbsee  there's a tribe 3 bug on it, unless Riddell removed the tribe 3 milestone completely while i wasnt there
04:23  Tonio_  Hobbsee: I'd say it differently
04:23  Riddell  not I
04:24  Hobbsee  Tonio_: how so?
04:24  Tonio_  Riddell, Hobbsee: who will disable multiverse ?
04:24  Riddell  Freedom Lovers!
04:24  Hobbsee  users.  some.  for some unknown reason
04:24  Hobbsee  and the freedom lovers
04:24  Riddell  (and people who want support)
04:24  Tonio_  Riddell: aka geeks
04:24  Hobbsee  https://launchpad.net/~ubuntumembers/+members is the relevant bug
04:24  Tonio_  Riddell: and a geek doesn't use amarok's script to install it's codecs :)
04:24  Tonio_  Riddell: nore has mp3 files on his computer
04:24  Hobbsee  my point is that this should not randomly fail, and it should not up and die fi they have mutliverse disabled
04:25  Tonio_  Riddell: and btw doesn't use app-install/adept
04:25  Hobbsee  Tonio_: sure they do - it comes up automatically if they try to play a mp3 for some reason.  if they downloaded one
04:25  Tonio_  Hobbsee: okay
04:25  Tonio_  Hobbsee: you are a freedom lover
=== Hobbsee shrugs
04:25  Tonio_  Hobbsee: you hate proprietary formats, so you disable multiverse
04:25  Hobbsee  i prefer my system to work, tyvm.
04:25  Tonio_  Hobbsee: would you play an mp3 file then ?
04:25  kwwii  for normal users, when you click the button it should "just work"
04:25  Jucato  hm... is this about the mp3 script in amarok?
04:26  Tonio_  probably not, and if it doesn't work, consider it is your fault
04:26  allee  Hobbsee: wouldn't if ! apt-cache policy <pkgs> then; exit; fi # fix it?
04:26  Hobbsee  Tonio_: if i'd not realised that it was a mp3, or something, probably
04:26  dthacker  Jucato: yes
04:26  Lure  allee: exactly
04:26  Hobbsee  Jucato: yes
04:26  Tonio_  Hobbsee: then you are a geek, you changed settings, that's your problem :)
04:26  Hobbsee  Tonio_: granted, but the scritp should not be that flimsy that it dies.
04:26  Jucato  iirc, libxine-extracodecs just points to libxine1-ffmpeg in main since feisty right? why does it need multiverse to be enabled?
04:26  Tonio_  Hobbsee: agree on that point
04:27  Tonio_  Jucato: it doesn't
04:27  Hobbsee  it seems it particularly dies when you say "no"
04:27  Tonio_  Hobbsee: which is a problem
04:27  Hobbsee  Jucato: oh, point
04:27  Hobbsee  Tonio_: exactly
04:27  Jucato  Tonio_:
04:27  Jucato  er..
04:27  Jucato  http://packages.ubuntu.com/feisty/libs/libxine-extracodecs
04:27  Lure  Jucato: correct - we can have amarok mp3 by defaul
04:28  Tonio_  Lure: no we can't
04:28  Jucato  er it's in universe lol sorry
04:28  Riddell  Hobbsee: why is this milestoned for tribe 3?  it can wait until feature freeze and we're in bug mode no?
=== Jucato could have sworn it was in main :P
04:28  Tonio_  Lure: I already discussed with -devel guys on that point
04:28  Hobbsee  Riddell: sure it can, but it's to remind me, and preferably get it fixed sooner than that, so people test.
04:28  Riddell  Hobbsee: I'm happy to fix it but not until after feature freeze
04:28  Tonio_  Lure: it is in main for technical reasons, but we can't ship it by default becauseof licencing issues
04:28  Tonio_  Lure: in fact that shouldn't be in main :)
04:29  Hobbsee  Riddell: OK, will assign it to you
04:29  Hobbsee  Riddell: excellent, thankyou :)
04:29  Riddell  groovy

Konversation changes by Kubuntu

04:29  Hobbsee  *** No one has seemed to have actioned the points Sho_ (konversation) raised in the last meeting - who wants to do this?
04:30  Hobbsee  at least, the k-d-s settings havent been changed
04:30  Riddell  oh, ellen gave a non commital answer but seemed to say that listview at the side was better than tabs
04:30  Hobbsee  right
04:30  Riddell  as did johnflux another occational konversation developer
04:30  Riddell  imbrandon did say he did the other changes
04:30  Hobbsee  i seem to remember we agreed to the other points though, which still seem to be in there?
04:30  Tonio_  Riddell: talking about that, I don't want to switch back to the default theme
04:30  Riddell  but imbrandon seems to not be 100% reliable currently
04:31  Tonio_  Riddell: we probably want a "human readeable theme" by default, which the default konversation isn't
04:31  Hobbsee  Riddell: hwo does imbrandon fit into this, sorry?
=== Jucato agrees with Tonio_
04:31  Tonio_  Riddell: I wouldn't be inclined to change this
04:31  Riddell  Hobbsee: he told me once he had made the required changes and was going to upload
04:31  Riddell  ages ago this was
04:31  Hobbsee  ah right
04:31  Jucato  but the other suggestion was that we could probably help in making a better nicklist theme
04:31  Hobbsee  it seems that he hasnt, so someone else needs to
04:32  Tonio_  Jucato: if we can find any better, okay, but not the default konversation is shipped wuth
04:32  Tonio_  wth
04:32  Hobbsee  Jucato: true.  i suspect kwwii's far too busy for it
04:32  Tonio_  rahhhhhhhh !! with
04:32  Tonio_  Hobbsee: can you remind me what is the problem with the current one ?
04:32  Jucato  Tonio_: yeah. I don't like it either and have continually "discussed" that topic with Sho_ :)
04:32  Jucato  Tonio_: iirc it was the quality of that theme
04:32  Tonio_  Jucato: it is simple, nice looking and icons are explicit to what they mean
04:33  Tonio_  what is the problem with it ? seriously ?
04:33  Hobbsee  Tonio_: i dont have the direct link for sho_'s complaints about it
=== Jucato checks logs
04:33  Tonio_  Hobbsee: in my opinion, there is the upstream work and the distro work
=== Hobbsee has lost all logs since then
04:33  Hobbsee  Tonio_: this is true.  but upstream says "we want you to use this.  only".  as for why they havent removed the others then, i have no idea...
04:33  Tonio_  it is not the first time guy from konversation are complaining about the fact we're changing the defualt settings, and that honnestly drives me nuts
04:34  Tonio_  Hobbsee: they make things configurable, we configure them
04:34  Tonio_  Hobbsee: we respect the gpl, that's it
04:34  Hobbsee  Tonio_: feel free to take it up with Sho_.
04:34  Tonio_  Hobbsee: if they don't want us to 'implement' it as we want, they can do proprietary software
04:34  Hobbsee  Tonio_: no point doing it now, as Sho_ isnt here.  he's on #konversation now though
04:34  Jucato  to be fair, upstream's concern is that problems in Konversation introduced in Kubuntu usually gets thrown back at them
04:34  Tonio_  Hobbsee: especially as we're not changing it a lot
04:35  Tonio_  Hobbsee: can you imaging how much more are we twinking konqueror for example ?
04:35  Hobbsee  Jucato: true that.  which is why i'ts improtant to actually check k-d-s changes, which is still on my todo list
04:35  imbrandon  honestly sho isnt on the kubuntu team and we follow the gpl
=== imbrandon idles again
04:35  Tonio_  Jucato: that's a problem with ALL free softwares
04:35  Jucato  Tonio_: "* Kubuntu has selected a different default nicklist theme  from the set of themes we ship with Konversation. While  we continue to ship that theme for legacy reasons, we be-  lieve it is graphically poorly done and would prefer it  if Kubuntu switched back to our default. Alternatively,  we'd certainly look forward to artwork contributions  from Kubuntu's artwork community if it has other things  in mind. In particular, the issues
04:35  Jucato  with the chosen theme  are that the colour palette doesn't fit into either KDE  or Kubuntu defaults, and that the serif typography looks  outdated. - form Sho_
04:35  Tonio_  Jucato: so what should we do ? stopping implementations ?
04:35  Hobbsee  Tonio_: true that.  i'm still not exactly convinced that's a good idea.
04:35  Tonio_  okay let's stop kubuntu then, no need of a distro
04:36  Jucato  Tonio_: I don't necessarily agree with some of the suggestions (like the nicklist theme). but after all, they are just suggestions :)
04:36  allee  Tonio_: I don't remember details.  But Sho_ may have a point.  We listen, then agree or not.
04:36  imbrandon  Jucato, thats our problems not thiers, they want to be involved in kubuntu then invite them to take the time to contrib, instead of bitching from afar ( upstream )
=== imbrandon stops
04:36  Jucato  :)
04:36  Tonio_  allee: I'm not against sho expecially, he may be right this time, but as imbrandon and I already had problems in the past....
04:36  Hobbsee  Jucato: did you have that website link?
04:36  Tonio_  I remember imbrandon getting mad on the channel because of this
04:37  Jucato  Hobbsee: http://konversation.kde.org/kubuntu-issues.txt
04:37  Hobbsee  Jucato: thanks
04:37  Jucato  (it was in the minutes)
04:37  Tonio_  the sysray one.......... argh !
04:37  Jucato  heh :)
04:37  Hobbsee  yay, be rid of the systray!
=== Hobbsee thought that was decided last meeting
04:37  Tonio_  Hobbsee: NO
04:37  Tonio_  ;)
04:37  Hobbsee  say it with me Riddell, "system tray icons are EVIL!!!"
04:38  Riddell  oh yes
04:38  Tonio_  Hobbsee: konversation is exactly the kind of application for which systray is usefull
04:38  Tonio_  Hobbsee: you open it in the morning and then wait, as you do with kopete
04:38  Lure  Tonio_: fully afree
04:38  Hobbsee  Riddell: we could just outvote him... *g*
04:38  Lure  agree even
04:38  Tonio_  Hobbsee: all chat/email clients usually have systray enable by default, because you don't run them for 10 minutes only
04:38  Tonio_  it is the kind of apps that runs everytime in the background
04:39  imbrandon  honestly i'm of the opinion that if we just package vanalla upstream packages there is no reason for kubuntu then, anyhow i am at work and cant constructively contribute to the convo right now
04:39  kwwii  Tonio_: geeks just start a thousand programs and leave them all running
=== claydoh likes the systray
04:39  allee  Tonio_: minimizing it would serve the same purpose
=== _marseillais agree with Tonio_ for systray
04:39  claydoh  icon
04:39  Tonio_  allee: no, certainly not
04:39  Tonio_  allee: cause it'll be merged with the all programs you are running
04:40  Tonio_  allee: systray isolates background based apps, like kopete, knetworkmanager etc......
04:40  Tonio_  allee: ALL chat based apps run in the systray
04:40  Tonio_  allee: o reason to change that
04:40  Tonio_  allee: and btw everyone is free to change the default settings, it is just a matter of default
04:40  allee  Tonio_: to be honest: I agree with you
04:40  Tonio_  we're not removing the functionnality right ?
04:40  Jucato  why don't we justify having a systray icon based on its (intended) purpose instead of just saying that all other chat apps do it? for example, it serves as notification (which is the original intention of the system tray anyway)
=== allee hopes systray icons stays
04:41  Tonio_  I'll tell you something, I don't use it in the systray, but I'm really convicinced, that's the way the average people are waiting to use it
04:41  Tonio_  and I can argue on every point in the list....
04:41  kwwii  if we get rid of that one we should also get rid of the kontact, basket, and korganizer ones as well
=== Jucato would love to have a unified kontact systray icon instead :)
04:42  Lure  Tonio_: do you knwo about c++ patch for server setting - this is the only one I agree it may be too much from upstream
04:42  Tonio_  but well let's not waste time on this, I propose that we discuss together about what to do on -devel channel, let's apply the wanted changes, and write a nice response to the konversation team
04:42  Tonio_  Lure: which one ? to switch to irc.ubuntu.com by default ?
04:42  Hobbsee  Tonio_: mailing list is even better
04:42  Tonio_  Hobbsee: sure
04:42  Hobbsee  Tonio_: we do it in konversationrc and in the c++ patch
04:42  allee  Tonio_: how about copying the text file to the wiki and adding your points.  I'll do so too.   Just collecting pro/cons.  NOOOO flaming.  Then we can decide in next mmeetingn
04:42  Lure  Tonio_: yes, why patch?
04:43  Tonio_  Hobbsee: what about people that use konversation on gnome ? :)
04:43  Tonio_  that's why we are doing the fix twice
04:43  Hobbsee  Tonio_: then they really want to join #ubuntu
04:43  Lure  Tonio_: we should not care about them
04:43  Hobbsee  or are just confused individuals
04:43  Tonio_  Lure: I can remove that patch
04:43  Lure  hi seele
04:43  Tonio_  Lure: to be honnest I was asked to patch, of course my first action has been to do that in kds
04:43  Hobbsee  in which case we want to send them to #white-padded-room *g*
04:43  seele  hallo
04:44  Tonio_  can't we discuss this later ? it'll take hours to debate everything ;)
04:44  Riddell  let's move on, we can do the non-controvertial changes and debate the others at leisure
04:44  Riddell  I'll do the changes to konversation if nobody else has by the time akademy is over
04:44  Tonio_  Riddell: I can do it
04:45  Hobbsee  Tonio_: we should probably figure out Bzr stuff elsewhere, and provide a solution to the rest of the people.  as long as they actually read the mailing list, and obey it.
04:45  Tonio_  Riddell: but I'd like that we debate once and for all on what to change/remove
04:45  Riddell  Tonio_: ta
04:45  Tonio_  Riddell, Hobbsee: added to my todo

Multimedia Packages

04:53  Riddell  Hobbsee: next item?
04:53  Hobbsee  Tonio_: the multimedia packages?
04:53  Tonio_  okay, what should we do with the /media vs media:/ patch ?
04:54  Tonio_  there are still LOTS of issues against those patch, most of them probably won't be fixed
04:54  Tonio_  simple example : on my laptop, without any usb key and cd in :
04:54  Tonio_  http://tonio.homelinux.org/temp/capture14.png
04:54  Tonio_  on the left : /media -> ugly and confusing, missing things (hard drives)
04:55  Tonio_  on the right : media:/ complete, showing what's needed, and "human readable"
04:55  Tonio_  also, there are lots of issues arrount the desktop icons I could describe
04:55  Tonio_  those patches have always create more issues than they resolve
04:56  Tonio_  and btw, all  documentation you might find on the web about kde and media things don't work for kubuntu, witch is also a problem
04:56  Tonio_  I wold propose to get rid of that patch, as most of those issues aren't fixable, confirmed by Sime
04:56  imbrandon  or will be fixed with dolphin in 4
04:57  imbrandon  not that that helps now
04:57  Tonio_  about the screenshot, don't forget there is no cd of usb key on my laptop, which is a non sense
04:58  Riddell  simon isn't around the akademy labs just now
04:58  Riddell  I can talk to him about this when he gets back
04:58  Riddell  but I'm ok with removing them if that makes things better
04:58  Tonio_  Riddell: sure, but as I said, I already discussed wit him on that point and there is no way to fix /media
04:58  Riddell  it's more a polite thing to discuss before removing his hard work :)
04:59  Tonio_  the only fixable part is the desktop icons, but even on that point there are strange issues, as for example the icon sometimes disapears to switch back to folder one, which makes the device unmountable
04:59  Tonio_  Riddell: of course
04:59  Riddell  next item?
04:59  Tonio_  Riddell: his work is a matter of 3 patches, my proposal is to remove one of them only :)
04:59  Tonio_  Riddell: the other part of the simplicitation he has done is nice
05:00  Riddell  Tonio_: I'm sure he'll be back soon, you, me and him can discuss in a bit
05:00  Tonio_  oki

Packages in Bzr

Who wants to go to UDS Boston?

05:00  Riddell  UDS, who wants to come?
05:01  imbrandon  boston ?
05:01  Riddell  yes
05:01  Hobbsee  Riddell: boston?  not me, i'm afraid, although i suspect i'll be needing to anyway
05:01  imbrandon  i had planned on it as the next release cycle i will have MUCH MUCH more time
05:01  Tonio_  Riddell: I'd like to especially since talking about an LTS release, but there is no chance for me I guess :'(
05:01  Hobbsee  Riddell: boston+1, i want to come.
05:01  Riddell  we're biased towards those in the americas I believe
05:01  imbrandon  if i can
05:01  imbrandon  i had planned on it as the next release cycle i will have MUCH MUCH more time
05:01  imbrandon  err yea
05:01  Riddell  imbrandon: ok, I'll put you down
05:01  eagles0513875  hey
05:01  Hobbsee  Riddell: please put Tonio_ in my place, if you can.  he does need to be there.
05:02  kwwii  have we invited seele?
05:02  Riddell  kwwii: we should :)
05:02  kwwii  I'll do that then
05:02  Riddell  ta
=== Hobbsee grumbles about not being able to meet seele on that basis.
05:02  Hobbsee  Riddell: how many kubuntu places do you have?
05:02  Hobbsee  oh wait, she counts as KDE :P
05:02  Riddell  kwwii: no official invites at this stage as I understand, just asking if people are interested
05:02  Riddell  Hobbsee: no idea how many places
05:02  Hobbsee  right
05:03  Riddell  three or four I guess
05:03  Hobbsee  right
05:03  kwwii  Riddell: right, that is what I meant: I will ask her if she is interested :-)

Qt Jambi Packaging

05:04  Riddell  is anyone interested in packaging Qt Jambi?
05:04  Riddell  java bindings
05:04  imbrandon  against gcj or sun ?
05:04  Tonio_  Riddell: I can have a look
05:04  Riddell  Tonio_: don't overload yourself :)
05:04  Tonio_  Riddell: I don't have "that" many things to do
05:04  Riddell  imbrandon: not sure, gcj if it manages I guess
05:05  Tonio_  Riddell: well acutally I have a lot, but in a few weeks (2 or 3) I may have time for this :)
05:05  Riddell  Tonio_: there's some build issues, ask tronical (Simon haussman) for more information
05:05  imbrandon  i'm not great at java stuff but i can help along with someone else if they need/want it
05:05  Riddell  ok, Tonio_ and imbrandon to do that
05:05  Tonio_  Riddell: okay, will do that then

Spec Update

05:05  Riddell  spec update: how are we getting on?
05:05  Riddell  kde4-system-settings is in trunk, woo
05:06  Riddell  Tonio_: how is dolphin-by-default?
05:06  Tonio_  Riddell: okay so here is the point :
05:06  Tonio_  we need to get 0.9 in, for which I have packages, but there is an issue with the naming change
05:06  Tonio_  upstream wouldn't like me to rename the all app from d3lphin to dolphin
05:07  Riddell  but d3lphin is a horrible name for users to see, the menu item should be dolphin
05:07  Tonio_  second point : we need some bit of code in the kcm app chooser to be able to switch from konqueror to dolphin
05:07  Tonio_  that can be done easilly by changing the inode/directory mimetype association
05:07  Tonio_  beeing able to select the default with the standard tool is a requirement I'd say
05:08  Tonio_  Riddell: do you agree ?
05:08  Riddell  Tonio_: I agree
05:08  Tonio_  third point : Ark
05:08  Tonio_  dolphin doesn't understand konqueror plugins, only servicemenus
05:09  Tonio_  we have to write a nice one, but servicemenus have a problem : they are not dynamic, so we can't add options depending the installed compression tools installed on the machine, like unrar for example
05:09  Tonio_  I must say I don't see a solution on that point
05:09  Riddell  Tonio_: I don't care that much, you still get ark if you left click on it
05:10  Tonio_  Riddell: you don't..... that's the problem
05:10  Riddell  what do you get?
05:10  Tonio_  Riddell: will only work with tar.gz by default
05:10  Tonio_  nothing with zip, rar etc....
05:10  Riddell  well ark should be associated with rar files then
05:10  Tonio_  Riddell: and what if you want to compress a file or folder ? :)
05:10  Riddell  I'm talking about uncompressing
05:11  Riddell  for compressing you can open ark yourself
05:11  Tonio_  Riddell: you talk about doubleclicking the file ?
05:11  Tonio_  Riddell: that way yes it works
05:11  Riddell  Tonio_: yes
05:11  Riddell  so voila
05:12  Tonio_  but that not very nice in my opinion
05:12  Riddell  right click menus aren't the best UI for most things
05:12  Tonio_  Riddell: I need to investigate how this works on kde4
05:12  Tonio_  maybe there is just a super servicemenu written :)
05:12  Riddell  Tonio_: keyboard-accessibility, how's that?
05:12  Riddell  abattoir: are you still planning to do onboard?
05:12  Tonio_  no work on that point at the moment, but that's planed on my own
05:12  Tonio_  Riddell: will tell you more next meeting
05:13  Riddell  kwwii: kubuntu-artwork-gusty (a spec I just invented), how's it getting on
05:13  Riddell  a new background would be nice
05:13  Riddell  mhb: how's restricted-manager doing?
05:13  kwwii  Riddell: yeah, I wanted to get a new bg and change the window deco colors
05:14  kwwii  I think I messed up the colors in Feisty ;-(

Membership - Celeste Lyn Paul

04:44  Riddell  seele: able to give yourself a couple line introduction?
04:45  Hobbsee  but seele's membership... :)
=== Hobbsee hands the mic to seele 
=== seele takes the mic
04:45  seele  what do i say?
04:45  Riddell  seele: what you've done in the ubuntu world
04:45  seele  ah
04:45  seele  well most of my work has been in the capacity of kde
04:46  seele  i participated in UDS last fall and helped address some usability/interface stuff
04:46  seele  i also started working on a GUI with mhb for GRUB (which hasnt been released for technical reasons)
04:46  seele  also, this past spring i conducted user testing on the kubuntu version of ubiquity
04:46  seele  and just recently provided the results to the community
04:47  seele  i think working with kubuntu is a great way for me to work with other open source projects and maximize the time i can spend on kde :)
04:47  Riddell  evand will pick that up, probably after freature freeze
04:47  seele  plus kubuntu is just the bestest distro ever, so why not?
04:47  seele  ok
04:47  Riddell  :)
04:47  imbrandon  :)
04:47  Jucato  :)
04:47  claydoh  :)
=== allee add another :)
04:47  Riddell  any questions for seele?
04:47  Dimple  :)
04:48  dthacker  yes, it is!
04:48  Riddell  I know her well enough from conferences
=== Hobbsee attempts to think of one that she can ask
04:48  Lure  I would like to point out that ubiquity usability report is really great
04:48  Hobbsee  seele: will you be in boston+1?
04:48  Jucato  are non-council members allowed to ask? :)
=== imbrandon cheerleads for seele ( nto that she needs it ) just cuz she is super cool at the confrences and blogs and seen tons of cool stuff from her
04:48  Lure  I really hope some improvements will be done for gutsy
04:48  Riddell  Jucato: of course
04:48  seele  Hobbsee: i didnt know about boston+1 but probably since its in my time zone ;)
04:49  Hobbsee  seele: boston+1 is in an unknown location, isnt it?  :P
=== allee knows here from blogs
04:49  seele  oh right
04:49  seele  lol
04:49  Riddell  Hobbsee: in or around MIT uni mid-november I think
04:49  Hobbsee  Riddell: boston*+1*
04:49  Hobbsee  as in, the one after boston.
04:49  Jucato  seele: are you considering making a general usability review of Kubuntu? :)
04:49  Riddell  oh, no idea
=== Hobbsee wow. people dont read today :P
04:49  kwwii  actually, it is in the first week of november
04:49  Hobbsee  Jucato: yes
04:49  seele  Jucato: well.. it depends on what you means of "Kubuntu" because most of it is KDE
04:50  Riddell  Jucato: that would need to be a KDE job (and since seele has been doing KDE 4 HIG...)
04:50  seele  Jucato: i generally have a rule that if i dont think my work will be considered (let alone implemented) ill use my time on something else
04:50  seele  yeah
04:50  seele  all of KDE is a lot of work
04:50  Jucato  seele: well, specifically the Kubuntu-specific ones/changes (like Konqueror? :)
04:50  seele  thats what ive been trying to do for the past three years with them, hehe
04:50  seele  Jucato: sure, if someone asks for it
04:50  Jucato  :)
04:50  Riddell  konqueror in KDE 4 is a lot like in kubuntu now
=== Tonio_ nods !!!
04:51  Riddell  so, let's vote on seele
04:51  Tonio_  seele: +1 for me
04:51  Riddell  +1
04:51  Hobbsee  +1 for me, no questoin
04:51  Jucato  (+3 from me, if I had voting powers)
04:51  imbrandon  +25 from me ( but i dont count on this vote hehe )
04:51  Lure  +1 from me based on great work until now
04:51  Riddell  kwwii, nixternal, allee?
04:52  kwwii  +1 from me
04:52  jsgotangco  +1 for a super CC vote (if that counts)
=== jsgotangco hides
04:52  Riddell  well, that's enough, congratulations seele on Kubuntu (and also Ubuntu) membership
04:52  seele  thanks
=== allee +1 of course
04:52  Tonio_  seele: congrats :)
04:52  imbrandon  ( seele now i can legitly add your blog to the planet , lol )
04:52  Jucato  congrats seele! :)
04:52  Riddell  imbrandon: please do
04:52  imbrandon  congrats :)
04:52  seele  soo.. now what? do i need to so anything?
04:52  kwwii  conrgratulation, now get to work!
04:52  seele  kwwii: lol
04:52  kwwii  :-)
04:52  Riddell  no, someone will add you to the kubuntu-members team
04:53  cynics  seele: congrats
04:53  seele  ok