20120516

Please note that the cut off time for amending the agenda is 24 hours before the meeting.

General Agenda Items and Proposals

Who

What

Everybody

Show of hands to gauge attendance

Any Other Business

Location

Lubuntu Team Meeting

Place

  • IRC: irc.freenode.org
  • Channel: #ubuntu-meeting

  • Webchat link

Time

Logs

Meeting started by jmarsden|work at 20:06:49 UTC. The full logs are available at http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-05-16-20.06.log.html .

**Note:** The posted Agenda was not follow for this meeting, owing to unusual circumstances and changing roles within the team.

Meeting summary

Meeting ended at 20:37:55 UTC.

Votes

None held.

Action items

  • jmarsden|work to email the list asking for volunteer wiki champions

  • StephenSmally to write up ideas for improved team organization and email the lubuntu-users mailing list Action items, by person ==

  • jmarsden|work
    • * jmarsden|work to email the list asking for volunteer wiki champions

  • StephenSmally

    • * StephenSmally to write up ideas for improved team organization and email the lubuntu-users mailing list

People present (lines said)

  • StephenSmally (27)

  • jmarsden|work (27)
  • bodhi_zazen (23)
  • wxl (21)
  • nothingspecial (11)
  • will_ (5)
  • meetingology (5)
  • kanliot (4)
  • Unit193 (2)

  • MrChrisDruif (1)

Full Log

20:06:49 <jmarsden|work> #startmeeting

20:06:49 <meetingology> Meeting started Wed May 16 20:06:49 2012 UTC. The chair is jmarsden|work. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.

20:06:49 <meetingology>

20:06:49 <meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired

20:06:56 <StephenSmally> ok

20:07:41 <jmarsden|work> OK, so we need to figure out some sort of future direction, and we need a new wiki champion, as I understand it.

20:07:52 <jmarsden|work> #topic wiki champion

20:08:06 <jmarsden|work> Anyone know of any volunteers for that role so far?

20:09:02 <jmarsden|work> OK. So all we can do for now is make the need known.

20:09:19 <bodhi_zazen> amjjawad might be a great person to do this , he is not available until after at least June 1st

20:09:31 <jmarsden|work> #action jmarsden|work to email the list asking for volunteer wiki champions

20:09:31 * meetingology jmarsden|work to email the list asking for volunteer wiki champions

20:09:40 <StephenSmally> Well, i think we should have at leats three teams: Wiki team, Devel team and Art team

20:09:45 <StephenSmally> *least

20:10:10 <StephenSmally> Each team should have a "center" person

20:10:10 <Unit193> amjjawad has said that he doesn't like wikis, and doesn't understand them though.

20:10:36 <will_> Wiki, or "Docs"?

20:10:36 <bodhi_zazen> Yea, but, I have spoken with him more recently, and there are ways to support him

20:10:40 <nothingspecial> There are forum staff waiting to help with moving any documentation currently on the forums to the wiki http://bodhizazen.net/tweaks/ubforums2ubwiki.sh.txt

20:10:46 <bodhi_zazen> http://bodhizazen.net/tweaks/ubforums2ubwiki.sh.txt

20:10:56 <bodhi_zazen> script to convert forums posts -> wiki syntax

20:11:05 <bodhi_zazen> script works well, has been tested

20:12:19 <jmarsden|work> Sounds like we can let the wiki champion opening go until at least June 1st so amjjawad can provide his input on the subject.

20:12:30 <jmarsden|work> Moving on to the more general issue...

20:12:36 <jmarsden|work> #topic future direction

20:12:51 <StephenSmally> Guys, i know everyone wants to do something for lubuntu, but IMHO the organization is not clear

20:13:07 <StephenSmally> Is not clear who and how much are the developers

20:13:23 <StephenSmally> The art team seems is made by rafael only

20:13:50 <bodhi_zazen> o/

20:13:59 <StephenSmally> yes?

20:14:29 <bodhi_zazen> I suggest you encourage community members to be more actively involved

20:14:34 <wxl> someone correct me if i'm wrong but isn't julien still developing? just not going to be relaly involved in any sort of communications?

20:14:47 <bodhi_zazen> julien is developing

20:14:58 <bodhi_zazen> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/lubuntu-users/2012-May/001516.html

20:15:46 <StephenSmally> Ok, but Julien is not the only developer...

20:15:48 <jmarsden|work> Correct. And I'm here too, not that I have done a lot of development/packaging recently, but I have not gone away Smile :)

20:16:02 <jmarsden|work> Officially the lubuntu-dev membership can be seen at https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-dev/+members#active

20:16:37 <bodhi_zazen> 3 developers , or am I reading that wrong ?

20:16:46 <jmarsden|work> Right.

20:16:59 <StephenSmally> yes, plus the Lsc team

20:17:03 <wxl> considering so much is upstream i don't see that as disporportionate

20:17:24 <StephenSmally> which counts 5 member

20:17:53 <StephenSmally> IMO is disproporzionate

20:18:20 <StephenSmally> the problem is that each developer cares about his code

20:18:43 <StephenSmally> for example pcman fix pcmanfm bugs (which is good, don't misunderstand me)

20:19:05 <StephenSmally> but we don't have a real team behavior

20:19:14 <nothingspecial> so we come back to encouraging the community to be more actively involved

20:19:25 <nothingspecial> ?

20:19:25 <bodhi_zazen> +1 nothingspecial

20:19:35 <wxl> encouraging them to be devs will require training

20:19:54 <wxl> i'd even like to contribute as a dev but don't feel that i have a good background to do so

20:20:06 <bodhi_zazen> training or reading

20:20:16 <nothingspecial> or mentoring?

20:20:28 <wxl> any and all but should be clear how to do it

20:20:32 <jmarsden|work> Learning, not necessarily training... self-study works too. How you get the skills is less important than having them.

20:20:40 <bodhi_zazen> mentoring with expected reading ;p

20:20:41 <StephenSmally> I think that if we organize the teams better, we would be able to get more volunteers

20:21:25 <StephenSmally> I mean, if a volunteer don't know who talk to to know how to fix a bug, he won't fix it

20:21:34 <StephenSmally> (poor example, i admit)

20:21:45 <bodhi_zazen> communication helps

20:22:12 <nothingspecial> across the community

20:22:18 <wxl> +1 StephenSmally

20:22:27 <bodhi_zazen> rewarding those who contribute, with training / education helps

20:23:01 <jmarsden|work> StephenSmally: Do you have specific suggestions for how to "organize the teams better"? Either now, or can you write up your ideas and email the list, or put them on a wiki page, or whatever works to get them documented somewhere?

20:23:30 <StephenSmally> i will write something on the mailing list

20:23:37 <jmarsden|work> Great, thanks.

20:23:47 <bodhi_zazen> You can not expect someone to spend 6 hours reading, and 10 hours coding, without some payoff

20:24:02 <bodhi_zazen> developers willing to review code, mentor a little goes a long way

20:24:03 <jmarsden|work> #action StephenSmally to write up ideas for improved team organization and email the lubuntu-users mailing list

20:24:03 * meetingology StephenSmally to write up ideas for improved team organization and email the lubuntu-users mailing list

20:24:23 <bodhi_zazen> And you can not expect community without developers talking with users

20:24:28 <StephenSmally> bodhi_zazen, what you mean with payoff?

20:24:44 <nothingspecial> inviting people, encouraging participation, keeping the dialogue going

20:24:54 <bodhi_zazen> What are you going to do to motivate volunteers to donate hours of their time developing ?

20:25:15 <StephenSmally> There are no way you can motivate somebody

20:25:31 <StephenSmally> (IMO)

20:25:32 <bodhi_zazen> yes and no

20:25:36 <bodhi_zazen> you can discourage them

20:25:46 <wxl> bodhi_zazen: i imagine that julien will still to some degree talk to users

20:25:49 <bodhi_zazen> volunteers leave if they feel they have no voice

20:25:51 <wxl> but will likely do it through bug reports

20:26:02 <will_> Is there a backlog of development work?

20:26:22 <StephenSmally> will_, not really, or i don't know it

20:26:31 <wxl> everyone's motivated by different things

20:26:40 <jmarsden|work> There's always bug fixes and proposed enhancements, ... to LXDE components and to pcmanfm in particular

20:26:46 <wxl> some people are motivated by money, others egalitarianism, e.g.

20:27:06 <will_> jmarsden|work: is that listed anywhere? Like a Bugzilla report? I think that would be helpful to list somewhere on the Dev wikipage

20:27:24 <wxl> i suspect that there are plenty of people who would love to code but don't know where to start

20:27:34 <nothingspecial> wxl: collaboration is the key

20:27:48 <StephenSmally> Also, another problem for developers is that LXDE is currently hosted on git

20:27:50 <wxl> i think if we had some sort of even informal mentoring program that would encourage a lot of people

20:27:57 <StephenSmally> but a lot of lubuntu programs are hosted on launchpad

20:28:08 <wxl> StephenSmally: THAT is a problem. what would it take to move it?

20:28:55 <wxl> will_: if i remember correctly there's a todo list on the wiki, but i haven't looked in a while. that would be the logical place for it in any case. that or maybe lubuntu.

20:29:09 <wxl> s/lubuntu/launchpad/

20:29:18 <will_> ah ok.

20:29:41 <StephenSmally> I think launchpad is more developer-oriented, you can have mailing lists, teams and so

20:29:44 <jmarsden|work> StephenSmally: why is using git a problem for developers? It works for me Smile :)

20:29:56 <wxl> but i think we're talking about a developer todo list, StephenSmally

20:30:08 <StephenSmally> jmarsden|work, I mean, the incosistency between git and bazaar

20:30:15 <bodhi_zazen> wiki.ubuntu.com for teams

20:30:24 <Unit193> And, for example, other DE's for Ubuntu flavors aren't on LP.

20:30:48 <jmarsden|work> StephenSmally: Just one more version control system... not a major obstacle, IMO.

20:31:28 <wxl> one thing that seems important to deal with: i think julian was a coordinator for devs and now he's taking the role of contributor, which is fine, but who's going to take care of coordinating? who's going to take care of the dev wiki?

20:31:43 <nothingspecial> I wonder why we are talking about development and not about the team/community, which as far as I can tell seems to be the issue

20:32:32 <kanliot> the dev team can decide about the dev wiki

20:32:32 <jmarsden|work> wxl: If it needs it and Julien no longer wants to do so, I can take care of the dev related wiki pages.

20:32:38 <wxl> well i think honestly it's all very important, nothingspecial. the reason why making sure we've got the development covered is because otherwise we beocme stale and outdated.

20:32:41 <jmarsden|work> The developmebt TODO list is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/Developers/TODO

20:33:08 <nothingspecial> thanks wxl

20:33:23 <will_> jmarsden|work: Thanks!

20:33:33 <wxl> i think, though, that we need a good head for wiki and-- i think-- support, too

20:34:08 <kanliot> i'll do wiki if chris is sure hes done

20:34:30 <jmarsden|work> wxl: Agreed in principle, but specifics on that need to wait until amjjawad has a chance to give us his input

20:34:46 <wxl> jmarsden|work: ok Smile :)

20:35:40 <jmarsden|work> kanliot: OK, our first volunteer for new wiki champion... thanks for offering. Feel fre to confirm with Chris by private email that he is "really done" if you are concerned about accidentally "stepping on his toes".

20:35:59 <kanliot> k jmarsden|work

20:36:12 <jmarsden|work> #topic any other business

20:36:23 <wxl> if someone is needed for support, i'd help, too. i'm a bit tentative. life suddenly flares up and gets busy for me from time to time, but if there's no one else, i'm game.

20:36:24 <jmarsden|work> OK, is there anything else we need to discuss today?

20:36:27 <MrChrisDruif> I've got very small toes

20:36:33 <nothingspecial> I am here to work with both wiki and support with the forums

20:36:38 <kanliot> lol

20:36:43 <nothingspecial> any team really

20:37:24 <jmarsden|work> Ok... sounds like we are done for today. Thanks everyone, we will meet again same time same place next week.

20:37:55 <jmarsden|work> #endmeeting

LXDE-lubuntu/Meetings/20120516 (last edited 2021-05-03 04:46:36 by guiverc)