20130625

Contents

General Agenda Items and Proposals

Please note that the cut off time for amending the agenda is 24 hours before the meeting.

General Agenda Items and Proposals

Who	What
Everybody	Show of hands to gauge attendance
gilir	Update on Lubuntu 13.10
phillw	Report on QA (testing)
amjjawad	zRAM Testing, Start Ubuntu, other
Ibere-Fernandes	Reported bugs, Opinion, Following: #1190170, #1192770, #1186631,#1179167, #1193409, #1193526, Aero snap drag n drop on 13.10? , lubuntu-restricted-extras & Chromium Browser at Ali's email of 06/22
Anybody	Any Other Business

Location

Lubuntu Team Meeting

Place

IRC: irc.freenode.org
Channel: #lubuntu-offtopic
Webchat link

Time

Tuesday, June 25th, 2013, 20:00 UTC

Meeting information

#lubuntu-offtopic: Lubuntu meeting, 25 Jun at 20:00 — 21:10 UTC
Full logs at http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/lubuntu-offtopic/2013/lubuntu-offtopic.2013-06-25-20.00.log.html

Meeting summary

LINK: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/IRC%20Meetings/Agenda

Lubuntu meeting

The discussion about "Lubuntu meeting" started at 20:04.

lubuntu dev status (20:04)
QA Report (20:15)
- LINK: http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/297/builds
- LINK: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/ISO
- LINK: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Activities/Classroom/Saucy
- LINK: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/Testing
- LINK: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Activities/Classroom/Saucy
Bugs (20:37)
Any Other Business (21:00)
StartUbuntu (21:01)
(21:09)
Any Other Business (21:09)

Vote results

Action items

(none)

People present (lines said)

amjjawad (101)
phillw (78)
gilir (26)
ibere_SP (20)
SonikkuAmerica (14)
JoernS (11)
ubot93 (6)
Unit193 (4)
meetingology (3)
Noskcaj (3)

Full Log

20:00 <phillw> #startmeeting Lubuntu meeting
20:00 <meetingology> Meeting started Tue Jun 25 20:00:18 2013 UTC. The chair is phillw. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
20:00 <meetingology>
20:00 <meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
20:00 <phillw> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/IRC%20Meetings/Agenda
20:01 <phillw> Hi folks, the agenda is above
20:01 <phillw> Can I ask for a show of hands for those in attendance?
20:01 <amjjawad> I'm here
20:01 <ibere_SP> o/
20:02 <JoernS> *wave* Hello everyone!
20:02 <amjjawad> wow, two of fb group members are here
20:03 <phillw> well, this should be a quick meeting. As julien is obviously tied up (he may pop in later) I'll start with QA
20:03 <ibere_SP>
20:03 <amjjawad> Hello everyone
20:03 <amjjawad> phillw:
20:03 <SonikkuAmerica> o/
20:03 <amjjawad> should we wait few mins?
20:03 <SonikkuAmerica> (I'm here)
20:03 <amjjawad> SonikkuAmerica: sorry, who are you?
20:03 <phillw> aha gilir is about! Can you give us an overview of where 13.10 is upto from the dev perspective?
20:04 <SonikkuAmerica> amjjawad: I'm on Lubuntu Comms (particularly because I'm interested in the Start Ubuntu project)
20:04 <phillw> #topic Lubuntu meeting
20:04 <phillw> #subtopic lubuntu dev status
20:04 <gilir> *hide :-)*
20:05 <amjjawad> gilir: don't, we can see you :P
20:05 <JoernS> You can run, but you can't hide!
20:05 <gilir> too bad, so I need to talk now
20:05 <amjjawad> +1
20:05 <amjjawad> gilir: we are waiting
20:06 <gilir> ok, so Alpha 1 is in 2 days, but half of the bug changes was made since
20:07 <gilir> bug => big
20:07 <gilir> currently, first round of default apps is in (including firefox and zram)
20:08 <gilir> second round may arrive shortly after alpha 2
20:08 <gilir> big update of lxsession is in, but not all features are enable by default
20:08 <gilir> it will be enable shortly after alpha 1
20:09 <gilir> also, artwork first update, should be in shortly after alpha 1
20:10 <gilir> so, after this, all the big changes for the 13.10 will be in, I'll be able to work on smaller improvement and bug fixes after this
20:11 <gilir> that's a short summarize, if you want detail, just ask before I hide again
20:11 <amjjawad> Yes
20:11 <amjjawad> what do you mean 2nd round? what kind of changes?
20:12 <amjjawad> bug fixes or new stuff?
20:12 <phillw> gilir: thanks, that's fine. Can you keep the lubuntu-qa mailing list updated as changes in the ISO arrive so we can ensure that they get thoroughly tested.
20:12 <gilir> mostly, bug fixes, games change if we find good one ...
20:13 <amjjawad> gilir: I see, thanks I would say Bug Fixes much more important than anything else
20:13 <amjjawad> Having that said, I don't mind to vote against any game!!
20:13 <gilir> phillw, will do
20:13 <amjjawad> I mean, even if we won't release 13.10 with any kind of games!
20:13 <amjjawad> Bug Fixes come first
20:14 <SonikkuAmerica> (Would AisleRiot be too big?)
20:14 <phillw> okies, next on the agenda
20:15 <gilir> amjjawad, I only talk about applications by default, there is still a lot of improvement to include in lxsession and default settings
20:15 <phillw> #subtopic QA Report
20:16 <amjjawad> I was commenting on the part that you said: "games change if we find good one ..." gilir
20:16 <phillw> As Julien has said, the alpha 1 is due out on Thursday (pending testing), you can down load and test it now from
20:16 <phillw> #link http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/297/builds
20:17 <phillw> There was a respin today to take care of bug 1193526 on the desktop installs
20:17 <ubot93> bug 1193526 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Clicking "Install Xubuntu 13.10" in live session doesn't work." [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1193526
20:17 <phillw> Unless we find any more horrors, I do not expect any more respins.
20:18 <phillw> but, it does need testing!
20:18 <gilir> phillw, so the fix for the shutdown and reboot is not necessary for Alpha 1 ?
20:19 <ibere_SP> phillw, i was wondering if i'm doing bug reporting the right way, because almost none of the bugs i reported were touched by somebody: https://bugs.launchpad.net/~ibere-fernandes/+reportedbugs
20:19 <ibere_SP> phillw, and yes.. they are reported at http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/270/builds/47372/testcases/1303/results
20:19 <phillw> gilir: I do not consider it a show stopper, more release note worthy. If you want to puch it - we'll take the hit, but we're on Tuesday already.
20:19 <phillw> ibere_SP: we will be covering outstanding bugs next
20:20 <gilir> phillw, I'll push it if the fix is correct tonight, so any respin will take it
20:20 <Noskcaj> ibere_SP, you've done everything right, it just takes time. i've got a bug from quantal that isn't fixed
20:20 <phillw> gilir: I'll respin tomorrow in that case. you love to drive the testers mad
20:21 <phillw> do let me know (my PM, as my email is still down)
20:21 <ibere_SP> Noskcaj, ok, tks. I've just wanted to make sure.
20:21 <Noskcaj> phillw, if your email stops working you can email with your Facebook account
20:22 <phillw> Noskcaj: not yo my ubuntu.com address I cannot
20:22 <Noskcaj> true
20:22 <phillw> s/yo/to
20:23 <phillw> But, back to testing... If you've tested before, we have done a lot of work on documenting up (and even a vid) this head over to
20:23 <phillw> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/ISO
20:23 <phillw> and feel free to ask on #ubuntu-quality. There are also ongoing classroom sessions again, details of them are at
20:24 <phillw> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Activities/Classroom/Saucy
20:24 <phillw> for more specific lubuntu details, and a quick over view, the wiki page is still active at
20:25 <phillw> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/Testing
20:25 <phillw> any Questions?
20:25 <ibere_SP> ok. thank you for sharing. I'll read those wiki pages. Some of them are familiar already.
20:26 <ibere_SP> no questions. ok so far.
20:26 <SonikkuAmerica> o/
20:26 <amjjawad> phillw: when we say "respin" you mean when the system create new ISO?
20:26 <phillw> ibere_SP: the session on classroom from Colin was brilliant and taught all of us who file bugs new stuff!
20:27 <phillw> amjjawad: yes, respin is when the ISO is struck through on the tracker and a new one requested to build.
20:27 <amjjawad> phillw: thanks
20:27 <phillw> as of this cycle, this is done by Julien or myself.
20:27 <ibere_SP> phillw, tks for prompting that class. I'll take special attention to that class.
20:28 <phillw> all those interested in testing, or even curious as to how we get a polished release out should take a glance at some of the notes!
20:29 <SonikkuAmerica> phillw: OK, I'm a little confused. Does this mean it's more prudent to test installation and live images before we install them to test onto a disk?
20:29 <amjjawad> phillw: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/Testing is a very good place to start reading from so hope everyone will have a look at it
20:30 <amjjawad> SonikkuAmerica: how are you going to test them without installing them?
20:30 <SonikkuAmerica> amjjawad: ... by booting from them, I would hope!
20:30 <phillw> SonikkuAmerica: pre-alpha and alphas 'can' mess your system up. We frequently test these in virtual machines or on spare machines. The last thing you want is dead system when it is your only system (keeping a LiveCD to hand is always useful !)
20:30 <amjjawad> SonikkuAmerica: I'm afraid not
20:31 <amjjawad> SonikkuAmerica: I would suggest to play with a VM
20:31 <SonikkuAmerica> phillw: OK... that clears things up... (I usually test stuff in VBox anyway)
20:31 <SonikkuAmerica> amjjawad: ^
20:31 <amjjawad> SonikkuAmerica: bingo
20:31 <amjjawad> I mean exactly
20:31 <phillw> SonikkuAmerica: for those not familiar with VM's there are classroom sesssions scheduled real soon!
20:32 <SonikkuAmerica> amjjawad: I mean still, that involves a (pseudo)boot process, but yeah, I see where you are going. No further ?s about that. phillw: Ooh, good!
20:32 <phillw> I'm doing the virt-manager (KVM) one etc.
20:32 <amjjawad> I use Oracle VM
20:32 <phillw> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Activities/Classroom/Saucy
20:32 <phillw> SonikkuAmerica:
20:32 <ibere_SP> phillw, i'm familiar with Vbox. Is it necessary to test the ISOs on ther VMs such as KVM?
20:33 <amjjawad> ibere_SP: any VM
20:33 <ibere_SP> amjjawad, tks.:)
20:33 <phillw> ibere_SP: nope, choose the VM you prefer. testdrive is happy to use either.
20:33 <amjjawad> I have never used nor seen KVM yet
20:33 <amjjawad> If truth to be told, I hate VMs
20:33 <JoernS> phillw, has KVM graphic glitches? On my machine, it has. So I have to use VBox...
20:33 <phillw> amjjawad: it's what the 'grown ups' use :P
20:33 <amjjawad> but because this release, I jumped in from A so I must be careful
20:34 <amjjawad> A= Alpha
20:34 <phillw> JoernS: there is an upstream bug in the default graphics with KVM on ubuntu.
20:34 <amjjawad> I usually start testing from Beta
20:35 <phillw> JoernS: I'll be covering it in my classroom, but if you PM me later I'll dig the bug and workaround out for you.
20:35 <JoernS> That would be nice, phillw. VBox is okay, but having an alternative isn't bad.
20:36 <phillw> don't use the default driver (cirrus, I think - choose one of the others).. but I'll get you details after the meeting.
20:36 <phillw> Well, no more on VM's! follow the classroom sessions!
20:37 <phillw> #subtopic Bugs
20:37 <phillw> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lxsession/+bug/1190170
20:37 <ubot93> Launchpad bug 1190170 in lxsession (Ubuntu) "no gui shutdown in lubuntu" [High,In progress]
20:38 <phillw> Julien has a proposed fix for this that may land before the end of Alpha1, if not - it will be in shortly after.
20:38 <amjjawad> will this bug be fixed in 24hours?
20:38 <gilir> will be fix in a few minutes / hours
20:38 <amjjawad> great, thanks gilir
20:38 <phillw> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lubuntu-artwork/+bug/1192770
20:38 <ubot93> Launchpad bug 1192770 in lubuntu-artwork (Ubuntu) "live session of Lubuntu 13.10 says 13.04 instead" [Undecided,New]
20:39 <phillw> artwork does not really change that much in the alphas, although I understand there is some stuff due out in the coming weeks.
20:39 <gilir> it's just the image I'll tell artwork team to make the update, no big deal
20:39 <amjjawad> exactly, no big deal - minor bug
20:39 <phillw> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pcmanfm/+bug/1179167
20:39 <ubot93> Launchpad bug 1179167 in pcmanfm (Ubuntu) "Drag and Drop on desktop not working correctly " [Undecided,Confirmed]
20:40 <amjjawad> YES, this one is BIG deal!!!
20:40 <phillw> gilir: I'm assuming pcman is aware of this
20:40 <gilir> already fixed upstream, next update of pcmanfm will fix it
20:40 <amjjawad> gilir: when? if I may ask?
20:40 <phillw> when do we expect that to trickle in?
20:41 <gilir> not sure still, depending of the next release of pcmanfm
20:41 <phillw> in time for alpha 2 do you think?
20:41 <amjjawad> gilir: any possibility it will never be fixed for 13.10?
20:41 <amjjawad> I mean, worse case?
20:42 <gilir> I can't tell until feature freeze
20:42 <amjjawad> many are complaining about this bug
20:42 <amjjawad> gilir: thanks, than I guess we should just wait and see ...
20:42 <phillw> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lxsession/+bug/1193409
20:42 <ubot93> Launchpad bug 1193526 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "duplicate for #1193409 Clicking "Install Xubuntu 13.10" in live session doesn't work." [Undecided,Fix released]
20:43 <phillw> that's a dupe and should be fixed as of now in the alpha 1.
20:43 <amjjawad> after the respin, it will be fixed?
20:43 <phillw> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/1193526
20:43 <ubot93> Launchpad bug 1193526 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Clicking "Install Xubuntu 13.10" in live session doesn't work." [Undecided,Fix released]
20:43 <phillw> another dupe.
20:44 <phillw> amjjawad: it was fixed earlier to day and I requested a re-spin of all our desktop ISO's which has been completed. if you zsync up, it should be fixed.
20:44 <amjjawad> phillw: thanks
20:45 <phillw> http://lubuntublog.blogspot.com.es/2013/06/aerosnap-feature.html
20:46 <phillw> I'm not sure as and when this will land, or even if it is on the list of things to do? gilir, your thoughts?
20:46 <amjjawad> phillw: I didn't understand what that link is talking about
20:46 <gilir> hum, I thought I added it on the default settings last cycle, let me check
20:47 <ibere_SP> amjjawad, i'm specially interested at the paragraph that says: "The next version of Openbox will support this drag'n'drop features, so we could enjoy as XFWM or Metacity users do."
20:47 <JoernS> Does Openbox itself has this feature (mouse-driven, not keyboard)? Or is it Opensnap https://github.com/lawl/opensnap
20:48 <amjjawad> ibere_SP: that link does not say much and I'm lost
20:48 <amjjawad> not sure what it is all about anyway
20:48 <gilir> phillw, I confirmed, it's in since 1304, but you need the defaults settings of openbox provided by Lubuntu
20:48 <ibere_SP> amjjawad, today 13.04 has "drag n drop" via keyboard. super+ left, super+right...
20:49 <gilir> but it's just with keyboard, it's not with the mouse (like Windows or Unity)
20:49 <amjjawad> Oh, I see
20:50 <amjjawad> so the plan is to make it happen with a Mouse Move/Click?
20:50 <JoernS> Well, that answers my question, thanks. But Opensnap would be nice if we get into the repos.
20:50 <amjjawad> and that is what it called "aerosnap"?
20:51 <ibere_SP> amjjawad, "aerosnap" is the way msft calls it.
20:51 <amjjawad> msft? you mean the enemy? :P
20:51 <ibere_SP> amjjawad, sorry, msft = micros.... you know.
20:51 <amjjawad> ibere_SP: they won't bite, we do :P
20:51 <JoernS> Yes. Because the Aero desktop of.... Vista or something
20:52 <amjjawad> JoernS: yeah, whatever they call it :P :P
20:52 <ibere_SP> does lubuntu blog belongs to Rafael Laguna?
20:52 <amjjawad> phillw: are we done from bugs or not yet?
20:52 <amjjawad> ibere_SP: he is in charge of that area yes
20:53 <amjjawad> I don't have access to the blog
20:53 <ibere_SP> I added that to our agenda because some blog from Portugal understood that 13.10 will have mouse driven drag n drop.
20:53 <ibere_SP> and now I understand 13.10 will keep keyboard driven only.
20:53 <phillw> there's a bug raised for lubuntu-extras, which I'm sure gilir is aware of as it involves also the transitioning from chromium to firefox
20:53 <amjjawad> ibere_SP: I'm not sure whether it will be mouse driven or keyboard driven??
20:54 <amjjawad> phillw: you mean the email I sent?
20:54 <amjjawad> I'm not sure if I reported that as a bug ???!!!
20:54 <phillw> IDK, I don't have any email system!
20:54 <gilir> phillw, yes, just too low in my TODO list for now
20:54 <ibere_SP> amjjawad, since 13.04 it is keyboard driven.
20:55 <phillw> gilir: no woriies, but while not urgent, it is pretty critical
20:55 <amjjawad> ibere_SP: yes but I was asking about 13.10
20:55 <amjjawad> gilir: I sent an email about it
20:55 <amjjawad> but I did not report it yet. I was wondering and guess no one replied me?!
20:56 <amjjawad> when you do : sudo apt-get install lubuntu-resctired-extras, Chromium will be installed gilir
20:56 <amjjawad> I guess that should be changed
20:56 <phillw> which is bit of a pain if you're on low bandwidth!
20:57 <amjjawad> phillw: +1
20:57 <JoernS> Or disc space.
20:57 <amjjawad> I'm on good bandwidth and it took forever :/
20:57 <Unit193> lubuntu-restricted-addons: Recommends: chromium-codecs-ffmpeg-extra
20:57 <amjjawad> Unit193: which I guess should be changed since we dropped Chromium
20:58 <Unit193> You think?
20:58 <amjjawad> Unit193: I guess!
20:58 <amjjawad> Unit193: gilir is the boss
20:59 <Unit193> And?
20:59 <amjjawad> so whatever he will decide, it is up to him
20:59 <Unit193> I'm aware...
20:59 <amjjawad> our job is to report the bugs/issues
20:59 <amjjawad> and issue has been reported
20:59 <gilir> ... and I'm already aware of it, just have other business to do more critical for now
20:59 <amjjawad> gilir: if you need a bug for this issue (chromium), I can report it
21:00 <amjjawad> gilir: ok, glad you are
21:00 <phillw> Right, so moving on...
21:00 <phillw> #subtopic Any Other Business
21:00 <amjjawad> phillw: why did you cancel my part?
21:00 <amjjawad>
21:00 <phillw> can we make this quick as we've already been on for an hour and that is time spent doing other things
21:00 <amjjawad> Then I am not going to talk
21:01 <amjjawad> if someone wants to ask, I'm here
21:01 <phillw> Ali, sorry....
21:01 <amjjawad> phillw: I'm having tension headache and I remain silent all the time so no sorry is needed
21:01 <phillw> Zram is in and running
21:01 <ibere_SP> amjjawad, you have done a great job testing zRAM!
21:01 <amjjawad> I am here because I want that even though I'm not ok
21:01 <phillw> #subtopic StartUbuntu
21:01 <amjjawad> ibere_SP: thanks
21:01 <amjjawad> is there any Q about it?
21:01 <phillw> amjjawad: go ahead
21:02 <amjjawad> zRAM? start Ubuntu? whatever in your mind?
21:02 <amjjawad> waiting for Qs
21:02 <phillw> Not a Q, but for those not aware....
21:02 <amjjawad> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/CommunicationsTeam/WOWLubuntu/StartUbuntu
21:02 <JoernS> Should we consider the project in Munich as part of StartUbuntu?
21:02 <phillw> #link http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2013/06/germany-to-hand-out-free-ubuntu-cds-on-xps-deat
21:02 <amjjawad> JoernS: why not
21:03 <ibere_SP> amjjawad, do you think it's the best time to start ubuntu once we do not have LTS yet?
21:03 <amjjawad> phillw: not only that. The French Gov has installed Ubuntu for their police station and saved I guess up to 30m Euros
21:03 <amjjawad> the Spanish Gov is about to do the same and save up to 20m Euro
21:03 <JoernS> Shall we ask MS if they support WinXP until we have a LTS? *duck and run*
21:03 <amjjawad> so Start Ubuntu has a lot of heavy job
21:04 <amjjawad> ibere_SP: start Ubuntu has started since March for me
21:04 <amjjawad> and just to keep you posted for my outside activities, I'm going to spread Lubuntu in real life globely
21:05 <amjjawad> I have contacted friends from all over the world and I've been talking to them about that. Let's see what will happen
21:05 <SonikkuAmerica> JoernS: Shouldn't 2-3 weeks without XP support from MS be not much of a big deal, or are the l33t hax0rs going to pounce on it?
21:05 <amjjawad> As for zRAM - here is all what I have about it: http://amjjawad.blogspot.com/2013/06/zram-testing-reports.html
21:06 <JoernS> The "l33t hax0rs" pounce it since ten years or more :P
21:06 <amjjawad> and I planned to talk about bugs but phillw covered everything already
21:06 <amjjawad> So, I'm done unless you guys have any Qs?
21:06 <SonikkuAmerica> amjjawad: Actually, I do have a question. How is the Start Ubuntu project different from, say, the Spread Ubuntu project?
21:07 <amjjawad> Start Ubuntu is for Windows XP Users
21:07 <SonikkuAmerica> #link http://www.spreadubuntu.org/
21:07 <amjjawad> Our main focus are those with Win XP which will be forsaken after May 2014
21:07 <SonikkuAmerica> OK, I get that... and?
21:07 <amjjawad> SonikkuAmerica: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/CommunicationsTeam/WOWLubuntu/StartUbuntu << everything is here
21:07 <amjjawad> JUST one last thing... if anyone is really interested, please sign up
21:08 <amjjawad> Here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/CommunicationsTeam/WOWLubuntu/StartUbuntu#Start_Ubuntu_Members
21:08 <amjjawad> I need to know who is IN and who is NOT
21:08 <amjjawad> Any other Q?
21:09 <phillw> #subtopic
21:09 <phillw> #subtopic Any Other Business
21:09 <phillw> Anyone got any points / questions?
21:10 <phillw> Okay, thanks for all attending. The next meeting is Tue 23rd July same place, same time!
21:10 <phillw> #endmeeting