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General Agenda Items and Proposals
Archiver : File-roller over Xarchiver
Display-manager : LightDM over LXDM
10.04.1 (two bugs)
New Wiki Area
Lubuntu Project Meeting
- IRC: irc.freenode.org
- Channel: #lubuntu
- Wednesday, December 1, 2010
- Beginning: 01.00 Taipei, Singapore / Moscow 20:00 / 18.00 Berlin / 15:00 Rio de Janeiro / 12:00 New York
#title #lubuntu Meeting
Meeting started by gilir at 17:05:15 UTC. The full logs are available at http://mootbot.libertus.co.uk/lubuntu/2010/lubuntu.2010-12-01-17.05.log.txt .
- Archiver : File-roller over Xarchiver
ACTION: Set archiver to file-roller in lubuntu seed and default handler for archive in lubuntu-default-settings (gilir, 17:17:43)
- Remove Cheese
ACTION: Remove cheese from the lubuntu seed (gilir, 17:30:30) ACTION: Call for testing for guvcview on the mailing list (gilir, 17:31:07)
- Display-manager : LightDM over LXDM
ACTION: Set LightDM to the Lubuntu seed when it's available in Natty and majors bugs are solved (gilir, 17:44:16)
- Control Center
ACTION: Add pcmanfm "control-center" to the menu (gilir, 17:59:08)
- Music player
LINK: https://lists.launchpad.net/lubuntu-desktop/msg02886.html (gilir, 18:02:16) ACTION: Replace aqualung with audacious and audacious-plugins in lubuntu seed and default applications (gilir, 18:12:51)
- 10.04.1 (two bugs)
- New Wiki Area
LINK: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Lubuntu (phillw, 18:41:49)
- Other topics
ACTION: Propose a time for the next project meeting (gilir, 18:48:42)
Meeting ended at 18:52:48 UTC.
- Set archiver to file-roller in lubuntu seed and default handler for archive in lubuntu-default-settings
- Remove cheese from the lubuntu seed
- Call for testing for guvcview on the mailing list
- Set LightDM to the Lubuntu seed when it's available in Natty and majors bugs are solved
- Add pcmanfm "control-center" to the menu
- Replace aqualung with audacious and audacious-plugins in lubuntu seed and default applications
- Propose a time for the next project meeting
People present (lines said)
- gilir (155)
- phillw (61)
- meetingology (18)
- subdee (9)
- bioterror (7)
- Wiebelhaus (5)
- ubot5 (4)
- EG_linux (2)
17:05:15 <gilir> #startmeeting
17:05:15 <meetingology> Useful Commands: #topic #action #link #idea #voters #vote #chair #action #agreed #help #info #endmeeting.
17:05:36 <gilir> hi everyone
17:05:48 <subdee> hello
17:05:52 <gilir> welcome to the 1st project meeting for Lubuntu
17:05:55 <phillw> hiyas
17:06:17 <gilir> you can find the agenda on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/Meetings/20101201
17:06:25 <Wiebelhaus> Hello
17:06:35 <gilir> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/Meetings/20101201
17:07:25 <gilir> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/Meetings/20101201
17:07:50 <gilir> please say hello to appear in the logs
17:08:01 <phillw> hello
17:08:29 <subdee> hello
17:08:59 <gilir> ok so this meeting is mostly to discuss applications by default on Lubuntu
17:09:48 <gilir> we already have discussion on the mailing list, but you can add comments about the differents item here
17:10:21 <gilir> we have some items on the agenda, we will discuss each on them
17:10:27 <subdee> are we discussing them in order of appearance in the agenda list?
17:10:47 <gilir> if you want to add another one, we can do it after all the items
17:10:55 <gilir> subdee, yes
17:11:12 <gilir> ok let's start
17:11:24 <gilir> [TOPIC] Archiver : File-roller over Xarchiver
17:11:24 <meetingology> TOPIC: Archiver : File-roller over Xarchiver
17:11:45 <gilir> 1st item is the archiver
17:12:11 <gilir> I propose to replace the current one (xarchiver) by file-roller, the one in Ubuntu
17:12:31 <gilir> feedbacks are good about this on the mailing answers
17:13:10 <phillw> it makes sense to use one from the repos that has support.
17:13:24 <gilir> and since it's used on Ubuntu, we should have a good support from other Ubuntu team
17:13:35 <gilir> and less works for us
17:13:58 <gilir> phillw, yes, it's the main argument for the switch
17:14:36 <phillw> less work for such a small team can only be an advantage, plus it allows other teams to support lubuntu more easily.
17:15:08 <gilir> if no ones have concern about it, let's do switch
17:15:30 <gilir> phillw, yes, it's about support, but also about testing
17:16:08 <gilir> but it applies for other items than the archiver
17:16:18 <phillw> as I see it, it is a win - win situation for lubuntu if we switch, the development, testing and support
17:16:54 <gilir> I think it's ok, for this item
17:17:43 <gilir> [ACTION] Set archiver to file-roller in lubuntu seed and default handler for archive in lubuntu-default-settings 17:17:43 * meetingology Set archiver to file-roller in lubuntu seed and default handler for archive in lubuntu-default-settings
17:18:05 <gilir> [TOPIC] Remove Cheese
17:18:05 <meetingology> TOPIC: Remove Cheese
17:18:28 <gilir> there is 2 reasons behind the proposal of removing cheese
17:18:57 <gilir> 1. the new version will require clutter, which is not "lightweight friendly"
17:19:20 <gilir> 2. I don't think it's really essential on a default installation
17:20:03 <gilir> for me the reason 1. is enough to remove it
17:20:15 <gilir> on mailing, most of people doesn't use really cheese
17:20:26 <phillw> Agreed, if someone has webcam, cam etc; they can always add it from the repos. I'll add a note to the wiki area for those wishing such functionallity.
17:20:57 <subdee> is there an alternative?
17:21:01 <gilir> the only problem I can see if the lose of the ability to test the webcam
17:21:49 <gilir> subdee, someone mention guvcview on the mailing list
17:22:11 <subdee> for a typical desktop user, taking photos and videos instantly from his webcam is a nice feature
17:22:20 <phillw> gilir: I can easily add a section to the wiki about webcam support.
17:23:48 <gilir> guvcview is in the repo, so we can at least test it to see if it's good enough for the purpose of testing
17:24:12 <Wiebelhaus> Also VLC can do it.
17:24:31 <gilir> phillw, yes, but it's quite usefull to have a test for webcam directly in the live-cd
17:24:52 <gilir> Wiebelhaus, yes, but we can't add vlc just for testing the webcam
17:25:24 <gilir> IMO, it's a small use-case
17:25:27 <Wiebelhaus> Yar , Was responding to subdee but didn't name him , my bad.
17:25:31 <phillw> gilir: has anyone tried out guvcview?
17:26:01 <Wiebelhaus> @phillw , Yes It's great.
17:26:01 <meetingology> Wiebelhaus: Error: "phillw" is not a valid command.
17:26:03 <gilir> phillw, I don't think so, it was just mentionned on the mailing list
17:26:41 <phillw> gilir: maybe worth investigating a little further, to see what resources it uses.
17:26:52 <gilir> Wiebelhaus, is it just a test for the webcam, or do you have some options ?
17:27:37 <Wiebelhaus> No options , I'd say let them pull it from repos if they need it.
17:28:45 <gilir> ok, so we can ask for testing on the mailing list, and add it to the seed later
17:29:32 <gilir> it's not critical, so we can wait a bit more on this item
17:29:41 <subdee> ok
17:30:30 <gilir> [ACTION] Remove cheese from the lubuntu seed 17:30:30 * meetingology Remove cheese from the lubuntu seed
17:31:07 <gilir> [ACTION] Call for testing for guvcview on the mailing list 17:31:07 * meetingology Call for testing for guvcview on the mailing list
17:31:42 <gilir> I think it's ok on this one too, let's go the next item
17:32:06 <gilir> [TOPIC] Display-manager : LightDM over LXDM
17:32:06 <meetingology> TOPIC: Display-manager : LightDM over LXDM
17:32:31 <gilir> It's a bit similar to the archiver choise
17:33:04 <gilir> LightDM will probably be the next display manager for Ubuntu (planned for 11.10)
17:33:41 <phillw> gilir: is it as low on resource usage as LXDM?
17:33:57 <gilir> we can share some work by moving to this
17:34:23 <gilir> phillw, it's similair when I tested it
17:34:32 <gilir> it's/it was
17:34:49 <gilir> the main problem is that it's currently not ready
17:35:17 <gilir> as it's targed for 11.10, the priority is not on this
17:35:23 <gilir> for the Ubuntu teams
17:35:27 <phillw> it gets my vote, then. any thing that works and reduces the workload on you people is good for me. We can always stay with LXDM for 11.04 and re-visit it in 11.10 if you prefer.
17:35:37 <subdee> agreed
17:35:59 <gilir> phillw, yes
17:36:27 <gilir> there is still some work to do to make it useable
17:36:52 <gilir> but when it will be finished, I think we can at least test it on some alpha release
17:37:04 <gilir> release/releases
17:37:33 <gilir> I already plan to maintain LXDM, so we have a backup
17:37:36 <phillw> gilir: maybe plan it for 11.10 as ubuntu are going to do. That makes absolute sense to me to try it in the alphas of 11.10
17:38:02 <gilir> phillw, of course yes
17:38:30 <gilir> but I really would like to switch earlier, because maintaining a display manager is not really easy
17:39:13 <phillw> gilir: are you confident you can have it running for 11.04? I'm only thinking of the time you will have to spend on it.
17:39:24 <gilir> that's why I propose to test the switch for this release
17:40:01 <gilir> phillw, fortunatly, I'm not alone on this
17:40:18 <phillw> gilir: let's go for it, you have a backup plan (I love Plan 'B's)
17:41:37 <phillw> if it is still having issues when we approach beta, we can switch back to LXDM?
17:41:38 <gilir> ok, so let's go to this plan
17:42:06 <gilir> phillw, yes, LXDM is more or less ready now
17:42:25 <gilir> LXDM doesn't require a lot of works now
17:43:09 <phillw> that's totally okay with me, my only concern was additional workload on you, but as you have stated it is not just you - let's give a workout
17:43:15 <gilir> also, there was no real objections on the mailing, just the same concerns than mine from pcman
17:44:16 <gilir> [ACTION] Set LightDM to the Lubuntu seed when it's available in Natty and majors bugs are solved 17:44:16 * meetingology Set LightDM to the Lubuntu seed when it's available in Natty and majors bugs are solved
17:44:42 <gilir> ok, next topic
17:44:55 <gilir> [TOPIC] Control Center
17:44:55 <meetingology> TOPIC: Control Center
17:45:24 <gilir> Following the disucssion on the mailing, we have 4 choices
17:45:30 <gilir> 1. Do nothing
17:45:48 <gilir> 2. Include pcmanfm control center
17:46:02 <gilir> 3. Include lubuntu-control-center
17:46:25 <gilir> 4. Include tuquito control-center
17:47:00 <subdee> tuquito looked nice but haven't used it tbh
17:47:05 <gilir> IMO, since 2. exist, and people requests a control center, 1. is a No
17:47:11 <phillw> I'd prefer to discount 1. which then leaves the choice of which we are going to use
17:47:36 <phillw> how is pcmanfm control center coming along?
17:47:47 <gilir> phillw, it's already working
17:48:13 <gilir> the only modification to do is to add it to the main menu
17:48:14 <phillw> as we use pcmanfm, maybe that would be the logical choice?
17:48:26 <gilir> phillw, IMO, it's a minimal choice
17:48:37 <subdee> according to this blog, tuquito is pretty light http://lubuntublog.blogspot.com/2010/11/tuquito-control-center.html
17:48:45 <gilir> it's just pcmanfm launched with icons
17:49:26 <phillw> gilir: we are not going to get much lighter on resources and RAM than that, are we?
17:49:40 <gilir> subdee, tuquido have several advantages : it's dynamic and modular
17:50:14 <gilir> it automaticly hides and shows available applications in an organized way
17:50:34 <gilir> phillw, no, because we use something already running
17:50:41 <gilir> it's just free
17:51:42 <gilir> subdee, but the bad points : we need to upload to the Ubuntu repo, to maintain it there, and it problably need more tweaking (like on the theme)
17:52:47 <gilir> I also really like this control-center But it needs some work to make it work properly in Lubuntu
17:53:36 <gilir> in short term, we can add pcmanfm as a control-center, and keep a eye on tuquito (maybe work a bit on it if we have time and motivation
17:54:40 <gilir> if we think it's good enough during the cycle, we can put it in later
17:55:06 <gilir> we can do the same for lubuntu-control-center
17:56:46 <gilir> ok, nobody seems against this
17:56:56 <phillw> gilir: again, it is something that be re-addressed at 11.10, if pcmanfm control center is working now, I'd go with that for the 11.04 cycle.
17:57:26 <gilir> at least, I will add pcmanfm as a control-center, l-c-c or tuquido are now ready, so we can wait more
17:57:40 <gilir> now ready / not ready
17:58:21 <gilir> phillw, yes, we can discuss this again in the next release, like any part of the seed
17:58:22 <phillw> get's my vote
17:59:08 <gilir> [ACTION] Add pcmanfm "control-center" to the menu 17:59:08 * meetingology Add pcmanfm "control-center" to the menu
17:59:55 <gilir> ok, now the big one
18:00:09 <gilir> [TOPIC] Music player
18:00:09 <meetingology> TOPIC: Music player
18:01:04 <gilir> the problem for this one, is that no proposed candidate is really better than the others
18:01:21 <bioterror> I think we should stick with the audacious?
18:01:53 <phillw> +1 from your last email, gilir
18:02:03 <gilir> bioterror, according to my review, yes
18:02:16 <gilir> [LINK] https://lists.launchpad.net/lubuntu-desktop/msg02886.html
18:02:48 <phillw> it will keep rafael off the streets mugging grandmothers if he has to design a new skin :P
18:02:54 <gilir> I was not sure about the better candidate, so I spend some time to evaluate 3 candidate : aqualung (actual) deadbeef and audacious
18:03:50 <gilir> phillw, yes, having the possibility to use "winamp type" skins will be esaier for him I think
18:03:58 <bioterror> maybe deadbeef shall see 11.10
18:04:28 <gilir> bioterror, I don't want to disucuss this topic for each release
18:04:47 <bioterror> for me music is everyday thing
18:04:50 <phillw> as Audacious seems better at handling large music libraries, and some of us do have large music libraries, as the RAM and CPU is similar - along with skinning I do think Audacious edges it.
18:04:55 <bioterror> and I bet for many other it is too
18:05:03 <gilir> of course, if there are improvements, we can still review it again
18:05:17 <gilir> bioterror, yes
18:05:36 <bioterror> (i've solved my problem with MOC
18:06:16 <phillw> I don't think deadbeef is quite ready yet, although it does show a lot of promise.
18:06:53 <bioterror> should the player be mainted? like in a real repository? not ppa
18:07:16 <gilir> phillw, the package is more or less ready, so I can at least upload it to Ubuntu, so people have the choice
18:07:35 <gilir> bioterror,
18:09:04 <gilir> also a good point for me, audacious is well maintained by other people
18:10:27 <phillw> for the reasons I gave above, I think Audacious does edge it as the lead contender. If it is also well maintained that is another plus for choosing it.
18:11:23 <gilir> I also didn't have objections on my review
18:11:46 <gilir> so, we can consider it as a go
18:12:15 <phillw> +1 from me
18:12:51 <gilir> [ACTION] Replace aqualung with audacious and audacious-plugins in lubuntu seed and default applications 18:12:51 * meetingology Replace aqualung with audacious and audacious-plugins in lubuntu seed and default applications
18:13:19 <gilir> ok I finished my items
18:13:26 <bioterror> +1 for audacious, it has almost same interface as deadbeef
18:13:36 <gilir> [TOPIC] 10.04.1 (two bugs)
18:13:36 <meetingology> TOPIC: 10.04.1 (two bugs)
18:13:46 <gilir> phillw,
18:14:26 <phillw> gilir: I know you've been real busy, but do you have a realistic time scale for 10.10.1 (sorry I got the issue version wrong)?
18:15:16 <gilir> phillw, yes
18:15:54 <phillw> gilir: I don't suppose you'd like to share it?
18:16:07 <gilir> I would like to test the fix I made for the os-prober issue with the natty alpha 1
18:16:38 <gilir> if it's good, we can start to work on the 10.10.1
18:16:54 <gilir> I have in fact 4 bugs that I want to fix in 10.10.1
18:16:57 <phillw> okies, it's just we were running on "a couple of weeks after UDS-N"
18:17:31 <gilir> phillw, yes, sorry one of the fix was a bit too long
18:17:41 <phillw> sounds like a nice point fix release, then 18:18:05 * gilir is searching the list of bugs
18:18:21 <phillw> It is only so I can let others know.
18:18:56 <gilir> 1. os-prober issue : https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lubuntu-meta/+bug/665530
18:18:59 <ubot5> Ubuntu bug 665530 in lubuntu-meta (Ubuntu) "[lubuntu 10.10] grub2 cannot detect Windows 7" [Undecided,In progress]
18:19:01 <phillw> there are two re-occuring ones on the release notes.
18:19:26 <gilir> this one need a test with natty alpha 1
18:20:06 <gilir> 2. wrong pdf viewer : https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lubuntu-default-settings/+bug/657335
18:20:09 <ubot5> Ubuntu bug 657335 in lubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu Maverick) "Wrong pdf viewer set by default on Lubuntu settings" [Undecided,Fix committed]
18:20:30 <gilir> already fixed in natty
18:21:10 <gilir> 3. support for samba etc ... https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lubuntu-meta/+bug/675212
18:21:12 <ubot5> Ubuntu bug 675212 in lubuntu-meta (Ubuntu Maverick) "Add gvfs-backends to lubuntu-desktop" [Undecided,Confirmed]
18:21:23 <gilir> easy to fix, should be fix shortly in natty
18:22:22 <gilir> 4. lxdm not able to run with encrypted home : https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lxdm/+bug/554583
18:22:25 <ubot5> Ubuntu bug 554583 in lxdm (Ubuntu) "lubuntu cannot start programs if home-folder encryption is active" [Medium,Fix released]
18:22:46 <gilir> this one need an additional fix, but it should be ok on natty shortly also
18:23:00 <phillw> gilir 1 and 3 are the ones that create the most 'chatter' on support.
18:23:11 <gilir> except the os-prober fix, all is ready
18:23:45 <phillw> great
18:23:51 <gilir> phillw, yes :-/ but 4 is also critical, because 10.04 works with encryted home
18:24:24 <phillw> quite so, and it will bork someone's system
18:24:55 <gilir> yes
18:25:05 <gilir> phillw, do you want to add anything else ?
18:25:21 <phillw> nope, all done. Thanks for the update.
18:25:28 <gilir> [TOPIC] New Wiki Area
18:25:28 <meetingology> TOPIC: New Wiki Area
18:27:06 <gilir> phillw, this one is for you also
18:27:07 <phillw> As part of the switch over to 'standard' wiki "rules" several of us are in the process of transferring over the support documentation to where it "should" live. We're just awaiting clearance on another page before we do do the mass transfer
18:28:16 <phillw> Auto re-drirects will be set up from the existing area, we are not being idle but really do not want have to this excercise twice
18:28:25 <phillw> *to do this*
18:29:52 <phillw> there is also some discussions going on about accessibillity on the format, so things are little confused at the moment.
18:31:27 <gilir> phillw, on which page there is a problem for the tranfer ?
18:33:10 <phillw> gilir: there is no problem, Jared (head_victim) had the 1st page approved, he has now done a 2nd one; we are just awaiting confirmation that the formatting is okay as when we transfer the pages over we have to manually reformat each one. We'd rather only have to do that once
18:33:35 <gilir> phillw, ok
18:34:29 <gilir> just keep us inform when you do the big move
18:35:00 <phillw> gilir: I chose the most picky person to validate them, if they pass him, they will pass any inspection
18:35:14 <gilir> great
18:35:57 <phillw> gilir: once they're all transferred, we will simply set up auto diverts from the exisiting area, so any one who has bookmarked stuff will be taken straight over to the new area.
18:36:24 <phillw> I know that was a concern, but it can be done.
18:37:25 <gilir> phillw, it's important that it can be done, it's annoying to bookmark a documentation and loose it when the location change
18:37:45 <phillw> I've seen it in action, it works perfectly.
18:38:19 <gilir> I think I also see it on some of my old bookmark on some ubuntu wiki pages
18:38:48 <phillw> it is another reason why we are not rushing things. It really is a massive undertaking and we want to get it right first time
18:39:12 <gilir> phillw, so only documentation and stuff about developement and coordination for the project will stay on wiki.ubuntu.com ?
18:41:09 <phillw> yes, the support stuff moves over to the new area, with diverts from the existing area.
18:41:49 <phillw> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Lubuntu
18:42:13 <gilir> ok
18:42:20 <gilir> phillw, anything to add ?
18:42:25 <phillw> My list of thank you's for this will be a long one
18:42:34 <phillw> that's me done
18:43:00 <gilir> [TOPIC] Other topics
18:43:00 <meetingology> TOPIC: Other topics
18:43:15 <phillw> date time of next meeting?
18:43:16 <gilir> anyone have anything to add ?
18:44:04 <gilir> next project meeting is on December, 19
18:44:40 <phillw> meeting room is free all day, pick a time
18:44:56 <gilir> and on December, 10, there is the first Bug day
18:45:33 <gilir> phillw, we just need to set a time for this
18:45:35 <phillw> only 16:00-17:00 UTC booked on that day.
18:47:31 <gilir> phillw, last time we done it on 15 UTC
18:47:56 <gilir> I'll propose it on the mailing list
18:48:33 <phillw> for bug day, or project? Yeah, if you can. then just head over to http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar and get the room booked. (Saves me getting nagged)
18:48:42 <gilir> [ACTION] Propose a time for the next project meeting 18:48:42 * meetingology Propose a time for the next project meeting
18:49:07 <gilir> phillw, only the project meeting, bug day will be special
18:49:45 <gilir> I don't think there will be a real meeting, just a 24h support and help on the chan for bug reports
18:50:19 <phillw> gilir: bug day is lubuntu specific, so holding it on here is okay. But it has been 'hinted' that our project meetings be help on the meeting room :P
18:50:30 <phillw> /help/held
18:50:58 <gilir> phillw, it's ok for next project meeting
18:51:26 <gilir> Anything else ?
18:51:31 <phillw> you can book 2 hours if you wish.
18:51:46 <EG_linux> hey lads!
18:51:49 <gilir> I hope it will be shorter
18:52:14 <phillw> it should be, we've got the apps out of the way 18:52:36 * phillw proposes #endmeeting
18:52:41 <EG_linux> i've just started to use lubuntu! and i wonder, can i access shared network files that i have shared out on my windooze machine?
18:52:48 <gilir> #endmeeting