20120222

General Agenda Items and Proposals

Who

What

Everybody

Show of hands to gauge attendance

phillw

Weekly report - Update from QA meeting and team

gilir

Weekly report - Update from Devs teams

Yorvyk

Guidelines for alternative apps in distro

StephenSmally

Lsc in Vala and Elementary Os team collaboration

Location

Lubuntu Team Meeting

Place

  • IRC: irc.freenode.org
  • Channel: #ubuntu-meeting
  • Webchat link

Time

Logs

#title #ubuntu-meeting: Lubuntu Team Meeting

Meeting started by gilir at 20:05:13 UTC. The full logs are available at http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-02-22-20.05.log.html .

Meeting summary

  • phillw - Weekly report - Update from QA meeting and team

LINK: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-qa (phillw, 20:18:45)

  • gilir - Weekly report - Update from Devs teams
  • Yorvyk - Guidelines for alternative apps in distro

ACTION: Yorvyk to start the suggested apps wiki page (gilir, 20:38:38)

  • StephenSmally - Lsc in Vala and Elementary Os team collaboration

  • other question ?

Meeting ended at 21:05:00 UTC.

Votes

Action items

  • Yorvyk to start the suggested apps wiki page

Action items, by person

  • Yorvyk
  • * Yorvyk to start the suggested apps wiki page

People present (lines said)

  • gilir (67)
  • StephenSmally (42)

  • wxl (28)
  • phillw (19)
  • Yorvyk (13)
  • MrChrisDruif (13)

  • jmarsden|work (12)
  • david_j_r (11)
  • meetingology (4)
  • ubottu (1)

Full Log

  • 20:05:13 <gilir> #startmeeting Lubuntu Team Meeting

    20:05:13 <meetingology> Meeting started Wed Feb 22 20:05:13 2012 UTC. The chair is gilir. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.

    20:05:13 <meetingology>

    20:05:13 <meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired

    20:05:41 * gilir looks for people around Smile :)

    20:05:45 <MrChrisDruif> o/

    20:05:45 <phillw> o/

    20:05:55 <wxl> …o/

    20:05:58 <david_j_r> `° (back row)

    20:06:21 <gilir> agenda : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/IRC%20Meetings/Agenda

    20:06:27 <Yorvyk> o/

    20:06:58 <gilir> no actions from previous meeting, so we can move to the next item Smile :)

    20:07:48 <gilir> if you have a weekly report planned for the meeting, but nothing to say, just ping me outsite the room, so I can skip the item

    20:08:13 * gilir tries to make the meeting faster Smile :)

    20:08:42 <gilir> #topic phillw - Weekly report - Update from QA meeting and team

    20:08:47 <phillw> Because of confusion caused by re-spins during testing, an email will be sent out to the qa mailing list when re-spins happen. When lubuntu iso's are re-spun, I'll forward them to the main lubuntu mailing list in order to keep the chat down Smile :)

    20:09:32 <wxl> respins hm?

    20:09:53 <phillw> when a fault in the iso requires it to be re-issued.

    20:10:01 <wxl> oh like them being too big Wink ;)

    20:10:09 <phillw> such as a major bug.

    20:11:06 <phillw> wxl: the milestone releases are always on-size, it is just the dailys that suffer. Now we aer post-freeze, this also should mean the dailies are CD sized.

    20:11:12 <phillw> s/aer/are

    20:11:36 <wxl> delightful as i'd like to do some ppc/ubuntu testing to compare to issues with lubuntu testing

    20:12:57 <gilir> beta 1 is next week, testing for it should start shortly Smile :)

    20:13:43 <gilir> phillw, anything more for QA ?

    20:13:55 <MrChrisDruif> Just an educated guess: after their released?

    20:13:56 <phillw> it is for that reason they're going to let us know when the Release Candidates for the beta 1 are up. If one of them has a major problem, it will be re-spun in time for beta.

    20:14:03 <phillw> that's all from QA Smile :)

    20:14:11 <MrChrisDruif> they're*

    20:15:03 <phillw> MrChrisDruif: the test versions of each mile-stone is put on test a few days before the mile stone is released. in this case it will be for beta 1

    20:16:42 <gilir> if people want to start ISO testing for beta 1

    20:16:52 <phillw> MrChrisDruif: the rather involved proceedure is documented at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/Testing#QA_testing_of_Milestone_releases

    20:16:53 <gilir> they can probably ask question on IRC when they start

    20:17:18 <MrChrisDruif> *noted* (by meetingology)

    20:17:31 <gilir> or read documentation send by phillw Smile :)

    20:18:01 <StephenSmally> Damn, i'm always late

    20:18:05 <phillw> I do ask that testers do join the lubuntu-qa team, even if just until final release

    20:18:23 <gilir> ok thanks phillw Smile :)

    20:18:45 <phillw> https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-qa

    20:18:52 <gilir> nothing to report for the next items, so I move directly to dev team report

    20:19:31 <gilir> #topic gilir - Weekly report - Update from Devs teams

    20:19:45 <gilir> a few thinks to report

    20:19:50 <gilir> thinks / things

    20:20:08 <gilir> ISO are under 700 Mo Smile :)

    20:20:24 <gilir> and maximised windows by default is turn off

    20:20:41 <Yorvyk> \o/

    20:20:56 <gilir> artwork was updated, but there is still issue with the theme

    20:20:56 <david_j_r> Big Grin :)

    20:21:14 <gilir> no need to report bugs so far, we are working on it Smile :)

    20:21:34 <gilir> any questions ?

    20:22:45 <gilir> ok, moving to next item Smile :)

    20:23:00 <gilir> #topic Yorvyk - Guidelines for alternative apps in distro

    20:23:10 <StephenSmally> This is interesting

    20:23:16 <StephenSmally> (if i got what that means)

    20:23:40 <gilir> Yorvyk, you want to start with it ?

    20:24:11 <Yorvyk> OK

    20:25:08 <Yorvyk> People keep suggesting apps for Lubuntu or replacement apps some of whichg are suitable possibilities others are not.

    20:26:23 <Yorvyk> I would like to set up somewherre to keep track of them so they can be looked at in more detail but we could do with some sort of guidelines for suitable apps to be considered.

    20:26:42 <MrChrisDruif> I agree

    20:27:15 <StephenSmally> Yep, for example some people want LibreOffice on Lubuntu by default, which is clearly not possible (or not useful)

    20:27:16 <Yorvyk> Is this a good idea and should we through it open to the mailing list forum?

    20:27:52 <gilir> IMO, testing and considering new application by default is very time consuming, for not so much advantages

    20:28:17 <MrChrisDruif> It's not suitable for a default installation, but that isn't the current subject _

    20:28:18 <jmarsden|work> If you care enough to do it, you write the guidelines and manage a wiki page listing the suggestions. Keep this kind of "suggstions" away from the devs...

    20:28:47 <gilir> I like the idea to make a page with some advises, balcklisted apps, and already discussed apps

    20:29:12 <david_j_r> Yes: "already discussed apps" helpful for new users (like me)

    20:29:54 <jmarsden|work> david_j_r: Why? As an end user, you can install any app you choose. The issue is what to *include* on the Lubuntu CD and install by default.

    20:30:06 <gilir> Yorvyk, maybe you can start to gather some ideas on a wiki page ?

    20:30:08 <Yorvyk> The problem is apps have been discussed and a re 'lost' in the mailing list somewhere.

    20:30:14 <MrChrisDruif> jmarsden|work; why would the user-base suggestions be kept from the devs? If they are properly supported by factual tests etc?

    20:30:20 <wxl> what happened to that whole voting idea?

    20:30:37 <jmarsden|work> MrChrisDruif: RIght, once a cycle the devs can look at the list, but the devs should not deal with all the suggestions as they flow in...

    20:30:41 <StephenSmally> Consider that a list of suitable apps for Lubuntu (for example how to choose a photo manager) would be a good idea for newcomers

    20:30:44 <david_j_r> jmarsden|work: That's what I mean: new types might want something in distro that is already crossed off for good reason

    20:31:06 <Yorvyk> THis isn't for the ISO. Unless some app is no longer supported and we need a replacement.

    20:31:13 <jmarsden|work> david_j_r: OK... new types shouldn't want things "in the distro", they should just add what they themselves want Smile :)

    20:31:23 <david_j_r> yep Smile :)

    20:31:58 <david_j_r> (apologies if I am confusing "ISO" with "distro" - my bad)

    20:32:07 <gilir> Yorvyk, ok, so the subject is only on application suitable to be used on Lubuntu (not to be installed by default)

    20:32:14 <jmarsden|work> Yorvyk: if it isnt for the ISO, then every app is perhaps suitable for *some* user out there... so the list of apps is the entire set of apps in the repositories Smile :) 20:32:16 * gilir didn't understant too :-/

    20:32:40 <gilir> jmarsden|work, but you know some apps is not really recommends for Lubuntu users Smile :)

    20:33:10 <jmarsden|work> gilir: Well, maybe some Lubuntu users run on a 8 core machine with 32GB RAM... for them, every app could be "suitable" Smile :)

    20:33:46 <gilir> jmarsden|work, sure, but such people doesn't need the advises Smile :)

    20:34:14 <jmarsden|work> It's pointless having a list of things that are not suitable for inclusion, but may be OK for some users... you'd have to define a list for "users with 2GB", "users with 4GB", users with quad cores... etc etc...

    20:34:17 <gilir> I still think Lubuntu is primary for people with computers with low specs

    20:34:22 <jmarsden|work> I agree.

    20:34:29 <jmarsden|work> and for them, the included apps are suitable.

    20:34:36 <Yorvyk> My thought was to try and gather a list of truly lightweight apps somewhere. so that we can offer a suiable alternative if somebody would like to use something that won't run on a low resouce machine.

    20:35:07 <MrChrisDruif> I *thought* the list was for proposal of inclusion into the default installation? What other use would there be for such a list?

    20:35:11 <phillw> Yorvyk: I think, as suggested, a wiki page would be excellen t for that.

    20:35:15 <gilir> jmarsden|work, maybe just adding a note on this page, like "If you want to keep Lubuntu fast on your old computer ..."

    20:35:16 <jmarsden|work> Yorvyk: if an app is truly lightweight, then it *will* run on a low resource machine...

    20:35:35 <Yorvyk> After some testing and maybe a vote suitable apps could be highlighted in LSC

    20:36:30 <wxl> Yorvyk: this is similar to a suggestion that i made before. it requires us to define what makes an app "suitable" and then it requires a lot of work testing apps.

    20:36:31 <StephenSmally> Definitively possible

    20:36:38 <jmarsden|work> Yorvyk: If you want to do a wiki page listing such apps, go for it.

    20:36:54 <StephenSmally> well, is not so difficult define if an app is light

    20:36:58 <wxl> yeah in the end i think something like a wiki page like jmarsden|work is suggesting makes the most amount of sense

    20:37:28 <gilir> Yorvyk, yes, I think you have to start this page, before futher discussion can happen Smile :)

    20:37:29 <wxl> StephenSmally: if you have 256mb of ram versus 1.5gb i'm thinking you probably have a different definition Big Grin :)

    20:37:59 <StephenSmally> well, anyway if doesn't have too much dependencies and not use too much ram

    20:38:06 <Yorvyk> I'll get something set up and thenm I think what I want may make more sense.

    20:38:21 <wxl> StephenSmally: but what's "too much?

    20:38:34 <StephenSmally> it depends on the application

    20:38:38 <gilir> #action Yorvyk to start the suggested apps wiki page 20:38:38 * meetingology Yorvyk to start the suggested apps wiki page

    20:39:05 <StephenSmally> a simple utility (as a text editor) shouldn't use more that 15 Mb RAM on an i386 machine

    20:39:12 <StephenSmally> *than

    20:39:19 <MrChrisDruif> An other suggestion might be an AskUbuntu question, where people could vote on answers (like "What is the best lightweight app?")

    20:39:38 <wxl> i still think the voting idea is best

    20:39:44 <gilir> MrChrisDruif, but you have to do it for each type of application ...

    20:39:49 <wxl> of course one can vote with edits on a wiki Big Grin :)

    20:39:51 <StephenSmally> And also a light app is an app written in a compiled language (C is the lighter)

    20:40:15 <StephenSmally> that's the main reason why i'm (and michael) porting lsc to vala

    20:40:22 <gilir> StephenSmally, you have to consider the memory, cpu and disk usage, depencencies ...

    20:40:48 <jmarsden|work> Take the definition of what is small enough/light enough outside this meeting... Smile :)

    20:40:50 <gilir> there are many aspects to consider when you talk about lightweight applications

    20:41:07 <StephenSmally> yep, but look at the dependecies is a good hint

    20:41:13 <gilir> Yorvyk, anything to add ?

    20:41:26 <wxl> i think maybe we should move on, eh? we've beat this idea to death in the past. i think the action will move it forward if it happens. i'd be happy to add to the wiki personally.

    20:41:29 <StephenSmally> for example, compare goobox and asunder (cd ripper), goobox depends on Gnome, so out

    20:41:38 <Yorvyk> I think what is wanted is

    20:41:46 <gilir> ok thanks Yorvyk Smile :)

    20:41:57 <StephenSmally> Yorvyk: i am available to do some test

    20:42:02 <gilir> #topic StephenSmally - Lsc in Vala and Elementary Os team collaboration

    20:42:11 <StephenSmally> Well

    20:42:13 * gilir is curious about this one Smile :)

    20:42:23 <Yorvyk> StephenSmally: OK

    20:42:40 <StephenSmally> I asked the elementary os team to "steal" some code from slingshot for lxlauncher

    20:43:02 <StephenSmally> obviously is GPL, but anyway i wanted to ask the permission

    20:43:36 <StephenSmally> they were very kind and fine

    20:44:04 <StephenSmally> and they asked me if there is something we (lubuntu team and eos team) can collaborate on

    20:44:09 <gilir> as long as the copyright attribution and the licence is fine, it should not be a problem

    20:44:21 <gilir> but it's nice to ask Smile :)

    20:44:39 <StephenSmally> so we decided to write a common backend for lubuntu software center and elementary app center

    20:44:49 <StephenSmally> so the next lsc version will be written in vala using PackageKit

    20:44:59 <gilir> StephenSmally, sounds good Smile :)

    20:45:12 <StephenSmally> i also plan to modify the UI

    20:45:30 <StephenSmally> (as somebody may has seen on facebook)

    20:45:32 <gilir> StephenSmally, as long as it will not bring gnome depends, it's ok to work with them Smile :)

    20:45:44 <StephenSmally> no one, gilir

    20:45:50 <StephenSmally> Wink ;-)

    20:46:29 <StephenSmally> here a mockup of what i think http://imagebin.org/index.php?mode=image&id=200267

    20:46:37 <gilir> StephenSmally, UI freeze should be in effect tomorow for 12.04

    20:46:51 <StephenSmally> of course, i'm planning for precise+1

    20:46:59 <gilir> StephenSmally, ok Smile :)

    20:47:21 <StephenSmally> i asked rafaellaguna for some hints

    20:47:59 <StephenSmally> anyway, i think a collaboration with the two teams would be a good thing

    20:48:01 <gilir> StephenSmally, you can also ask alexander, he worked on UI stuff also

    20:48:51 <StephenSmally> anyway, only the core of the apps will be the same, the UI is absolutely under our control XD

    20:49:09 <MrChrisDruif> Re on the previous topic: I was just throwing it out there _

    20:50:23 <StephenSmally> anyway, the team guys are very available, so if you want to ask something i think you can ask at elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net

    20:50:26 <gilir> StephenSmally, sounds good, keep us informed about the progress Smile :)

    20:50:43 <StephenSmally> i'll absolutely do

    20:50:56 <wxl> oh!

    20:51:12 <wxl> sort of side note but StephenSmally have you seen the lsc crash bug on boot in precise?

    20:51:13 <MrChrisDruif> I also saw a post on Lubuntu Official facebook page about LSC

    20:51:35 <gilir> wxl, bug number ?

    20:51:46 <wxl> one sec there's a few of them

    20:51:54 <MrChrisDruif> StephenSmally; ^

    20:52:22 <StephenSmally> yes?

    20:53:34 <wxl> aw shoot

    20:53:37 <wxl> they're darn private bugs

    20:53:38 <MrChrisDruif> I thought the outset of LSC was creating a lightweight edition of USC? Now the "developer preview" was without icons at all?

    20:54:07 <wxl> there's one public https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lubuntu-software-center/+bug/938399

    20:54:09 <ubottu> Error: Bug #938399 is a duplicate of bug #934537, but it is private (https://launchpad.net/bugs/934537)

    20:54:39 <wxl> lubuntu-software-center-build-db crashed with KeyError in /usr/sbin/hostname-software-center-build-db: 'ppc'

    20:54:46 <wxl> seems to be ppc specific

    20:54:49 <StephenSmally> MrChrisDruif: only the categories are without icons, we can add it if we want

    20:54:57 <wxl> always on boot

    20:55:01 <StephenSmally> wxl: gosh! got it, i'll fix it

    20:55:03 <wxl> after updating, it goes away

    20:55:25 <gilir> wxl, bug is not private anymore

    20:56:07 <gilir> StephenSmally, anything to add ?

    20:56:41 <StephenSmally> mmm, no, the bug should be fixed in an half hour

    20:56:50 <wxl> thx StephenSmally Smile :)

    20:57:25 <StephenSmally> is there anybody on ppc right now?

    20:57:45 <wxl> right now, no, but my machine is at home and can test in 6 hours

    20:58:14 <StephenSmally> thank you

    20:58:19 <wxl> phillw: have we ever got anywhere re: running ppc in qemu?

    20:59:00 <phillw> wxl: I asked a few people, never got a reply :/ I will have another dig around to see what I can find.

    20:59:02 <wxl> StephenSmally: i see it with the live system and the resulting install but after updating it is gone. so the next iso that comes out from your update, i can test

    20:59:19 <StephenSmally> thanks

    20:59:30 <StephenSmally> well, i'm done.

    20:59:46 <wxl> thx

    20:59:48 <gilir> wxl, to test, you have to remove lsc, and re-install it

    21:00:07 <gilir> StephenSmally, ok, thanks Smile :)

    21:00:18 <wxl> gilir: i can try that too but i want to see how it works in situ Wink ;)

    21:00:30 <gilir> #topic other question ?

    21:00:37 <phillw> o/

    21:00:51 <david_j_r> o/

    21:00:56 <gilir> phillw, ok

    21:01:04 <phillw> not a question... the new draft for ubuntu.net is coming along well - heck, they've even got volunteer translators already. Well done!

    21:01:16 <phillw> *lubuntu,net*

    21:01:59 <phillw> it is at http://www.whiteboar.info/ for those interested. 21:02:14 * gilir have to read the entire thread on the mailing list ...

    21:02:49 <phillw> fortunately, it is being kept on one email subject now, instead of several Smile :)

    21:03:05 <gilir> yes, it's nice Smile :)

    21:03:20 <gilir> maybe a topic to discuss next meeting

    21:03:27 <gilir> david_j_r, yes ?

    21:03:30 <david_j_r> Did Leszek get for LXKeymap, and did "obkey" make it in for 12.04? (Multilingual computing something of interest to me.)

    21:03:36 <david_j_r> *help for...

    21:04:03 <david_j_r> Maybe that should have been question for dev part of agenda.

    21:04:06 <gilir> david_j_r, not yet, some bugs still need to be fixed in the new version

    21:04:21 <david_j_r> OK - thanks!

    21:04:22 <gilir> nothing new since last week

    21:04:39 <gilir> ok, no more question, time to end Smile :)

    21:04:50 <gilir> thanks everyone Smile :)

    21:05:00 <gilir> #endmeeting

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Lubuntu/Meetings/20120222 (last edited 2012-02-22 22:52:28 by gilir)