2009-06-25

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 * Dan Hollocher  * Dan Hollocher, Self-employed.
 * Mike Terry, Cononical.
 * Gerrard from Malden, Casual User.
 * Yuriy Kozlov, Kubuntu Developer.
Line 25: Line 28:
 * feliciaATcapestr
 * BillN1VUX
 * Cam Cope, RPI Student
Line 41: Line 47:
 * Martin is to send a note to the email list asking for people who want to teach or learn how to teach.
 * Martin to kick off a preliminary server teaching session for Wednesdays. Martin needs to nail down a time and place and send email to the list with regard to details.
 * Doc will contact ASC and Martin to set up an appointment to see the ASC facilities.
Line 45: Line 55:
=== Group Introduction ===

 * Everyone went around the room and recited their name and profession, recorded in the section above.
(07:29:17 PM) DocKinneNotes: We're waiting on Mike Rushton.<<BR>>
(07:29:30 PM) DocKinneNotes: First item on agenda is the action items from last month:<<BR>>
(07:30:16 PM) DocKinneNotes: Several things are not done revolving around the possibilty of an Ubuntu convention.<<BR>>
(07:30:22 PM) feliciaATcapestr: present<<BR>>
(07:31:09 PM) DocKinneNotes: :-)<<BR>>
(07:31:33 PM) DocKinneNotes: Cam is not here to deal with the convention, so we're pushing that item off in case he appears.<<BR>>
(07:33:11 PM) DocKinneNotes: Improvements on the Tuesdays Class environment:<<BR>>
(07:33:25 PM) DocKinneNotes: Martin was here by himself last Tuesday. Little hectic, but it went well.<<BR>>
(07:34:35 PM) DocKinneNotes: It looks like we have to reinstall the OS on the machines, i.e. a standardized teaching environment where all the machines are on the same OS version. Mike needs to finish with this.<<BR>>
(07:35:21 PM) DocKinneNotes: Martin spoke with Castle Street Community Center with regard to teaching them about Ubuntu. They were interested and Martin has invited them to our Tuesday meetings to learn more.<<BR>>
(07:35:41 PM) DocKinneNotes: Action Item: Martin is to send a note to the email list asking for people who want to teach or learn how to teach.<<BR>>
(07:35:53 PM) DocKinneNotes: Any questions about the Tuesday sessions?<<BR>>
(07:37:27 PM) DocKinneNotes: Gerrard was a bit unclear as to the role of us folks with regard to the Tuesday sessions. Are we teachers, or can we be taught as well? Gerrard felt that we should be both, depending on experience of the user. Martin agreed with this, as the "learn to teach, teach to learn" method is the core of Tuesday nights.<<BR>>
(07:38:56 PM) feliciaATcapestr: eventually someone is going to come in that I can teach....maybe about the same time Mike Rushton has grandchildren<<BR>>
(07:39:32 PM) DocKinneNotes: What happened to Martin's SysAdmin classes? Dan asked. Martin is now Chair for the Ubuntu Learning Group and is moving this agenda from that vantage point.<<BR>>
(07:40:40 PM) DocKinneNotes: Felicia, you nearly caused Martin to choke on his soda! :-)<<BR>>
(07:41:08 PM) feliciaATcapestr: oh LOL<<BR>>
(07:43:47 PM) DocKinneNotes: A discussion ensued between some aspects of System Admin, specifically packages and their ages.<<BR>>
(07:45:18 PM) DocKinneNotes: Examples went along the lines of web frameworks and languages such as Perl. Martin mentioned that such things need a current PPA in order to install recent packages.<<BR>>
(07:45:44 PM) DocKinneNotes: Mike had a side conversation with Gerrard with regard to exactly what framework package are.<<BR>>
(07:46:06 PM) DocKinneNotes: Mike T. brings the meeting back on track.<<BR>>
(07:46:50 PM) DocKinneNotes: Action Item: Martin to kick off a preliminary server teaching session for Wednesdays. Our schedule is now forever altered!<<BR>>
(07:47:20 PM) DocKinneNotes: Action Item: Martin needs to nail down a time and place and send email to the list with regard to details.<<BR>>
(07:47:52 PM) DocKinneNotes: Any other thoughts or questions on Teaching Sessions?<<BR>>
(07:52:10 PM) Algot: What focus difference is there, if any between the wiki.ubuntu.com/learning and wiki.ubuntu.org/learning. Some page content seems same other different.<<BR>>
(07:53:41 PM) DocKinneNotes: We started discussion meeting places for monthly meetings. Doc was looking at ASC for a meeting place. This is quite possible, but they want a nominal fee for the meeting place (about $20). Doc wondered why we wanted move form SETC and Martin explained that sometime SETC was just not greatly available.<<BR>>
(07:54:12 PM) DocKinneNotes: Martin thought that looking at the ASC location and facilities would be worth it.<<BR>>
(07:55:01 PM) DocKinneNotes: Action Item: Doc will contact ASC and Martin to set up an appointment to see the ASC facilities.<<BR>>
(07:56:38 PM) DocKinneNotes: Any questions about the monthly meetings or the Arlington Street Church meeting place possiblity?<<BR>>
(07:56:50 PM) DocKinneNotes: Martin recounts his adventures at UDS...<<BR>>
(07:57:08 PM) DocKinneNotes: UDS for 9.10 was held in Barcalona (said in my best Doctor Who voice).
(07:57:40 PM) DocKinneNotes: A seminar was set up whereby community members were able to ask design experts questions. This went well according to Mike and Martin.<<BR>>
(07:58:23 PM) DocKinneNotes: There was also some discussion regarding "perks" that various companies are looking to give Ubuntu.<<BR>>
(07:59:04 PM) DocKinneNotes: With regard to the Community Track, the LoCo directory is being developed and is almost finished. Works is being done to improve the "goodies" we get when we do an event such as a Release party.<<BR>>
(08:01:06 PM) DocKinneNotes: There were also meetings about pushing the Ubuntu Marketing Group. This is something that anyone can join. It was noted that UDS that not many people are pushing the marketing end except outside the US.<<BR>>
(08:05:11 PM) DocKinneNotes: (As Martin took a phone call, the rest of us discussed the difference between classic hard drives and solid state drives).<<BR>>
(08:06:08 PM) DocKinneNotes: Mike Rushton was defeated by a marathon three blocks from the meeting place and is not able to make it.<<BR>>
(08:06:32 PM) DocKinneNotes: Back to UDS...<<BR>>
(08:07:23 PM) DocKinneNotes: Mike Terry is running an alpha of 9.10. They are working updating boot processes and kernel boot processes.<<BR>>
(08:07:57 PM) DocKinneNotes: With this new process, from the get-go your resolution will be as it is in X and there will be no screen flickers.<<BR>>
(08:08:12 PM) DocKinneNotes: The boot process will be about 10 seconds.<<BR>>
(08:10:09 PM) DocKinneNotes: With this new graphic stuff Nvidia cards won't be quite supported. They'll end up working in the end but they'll flicker since the Nvidia code is closed and can't be put in the kernel.<<BR>>
(08:10:29 PM) DocKinneNotes: This will effect 3D functionality and effects largely.<<BR>>
(08:10:40 PM) DocKinneNotes: Any questions or comments on UDS?<<BR>>
Line 50: Line 101:

(08:12:17 PM) DocKinneNotes: Now we go to the Open Floor aspect of the Meeting.<<BR>>
(08:12:26 PM) DocKinneNotes: The Floor is Open, Doc declares!!<<BR>>
(08:13:09 PM) Algot: What, no open chairs?<<BR>>
(08:13:26 PM) DocKinneNotes: <Poof!> There's a chair for you Algot! :-)<<BR>>
(08:14:21 PM) feliciaATcapestr left the room (quit: "Leaving").<<BR>>
(08:18:43 PM) DocKinneNotes: The Open Floor discussion went into talking about the difference between philosophical and practical aspects of OpenSource.<<BR>>
(08:18:55 PM) Algot: Doc- Back on my sofa. That chair is too hard.<<BR>>
(08:19:05 PM) DocKinneNotes: :-)<<BR>>
(08:20:04 PM) Algot: Is this group using the gratis/libre convention to explain "Free"?<<BR>>
(08:20:33 PM) DocKinneNotes: We have, yes. It makes sense and it gets around the ambiguity of the term in English.<<BR>>
(08:21:02 PM) Algot: Thanks, couldn't remember from earlier discussions.<<BR>>
(08:27:42 PM) DocKinneNotes: The discussion has moved to talks of Copyleft, Creative Commons and Non-commercial clauses.<<BR>>
(08:29:07 PM) Algot: I think I like the Attribution-Share Alike from Creative Commons<<BR>>
(08:35:47 PM) BillN1VUX [n=wdr@pool-72-72-47-59.bstnma.east.verizon.net] entered the room.<<BR>>
(08:38:13 PM) DocKinneNotes: Algot, those of us here would agree with you. No one likes the NC clause within Creative Commons.<<BR>>
(08:38:33 PM) DocKinneNotes: It's not obvious, but the NC clause works exactly the opposite of what it seems to say.<<BR>>
(08:39:49 PM) Algot: By-SA seems to offer the most freedoms and NC pulls any future profits away from users.<<BR>>
(08:40:10 PM) DocKinneNotes: CAM has arrived!!!<<BR>>
(08:40:35 PM) DocKinneNotes: What does Cam say about the Installfest?<<BR>>
(08:40:37 PM) BillN1VUX: depends on the kind of work. If I post photos, online, they'll be CC-BY-NC, but OSM maps i contribute to are CC-BY-SA , which is appropriate to that work.<<BR>>
(08:41:02 PM) BillN1VUX: All sweeping generalizations need specificity<<BR>>
(08:41:38 PM) BillN1VUX: i just had my own installfest ...<<BR>>
(08:41:46 PM) DocKinneNotes: Whoops. This is is not Cam. This is...Uri. :-) We won't make Uri present on the installfest.<<BR>>
(08:41:57 PM) Algot: Bill, wouldn't your photos gain value by being used in a commercial "publication"? Private remixes don't get one much recognition.<<BR>>
(08:47:36 PM) BillN1VUX: yes<<BR>>
(08:48:05 PM) BillN1VUX: no<<BR>>
(08:48:38 PM) BillN1VUX: you're right, i don't want remixing of some of my photos either<<BR>>
(08:49:41 PM) maccam-desktop [n=cam@pool-71-184-217-132.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] entered the room.<<BR>>
(08:49:50 PM) DocKinneNotes: Gerrard brought up a "concern." After about a year of using the forums for help, it gets a bit tiresome when something new happens, Gerrard said. It would be more helpful if it was known that user x in the Boston area has expertise in specific areas.<<BR>>
(08:49:53 PM) BillN1VUX: code may want to be free, but if someone wants commercial rights to my photo, they can ask nicely, they're provided for .org or friends only<<BR>>
(08:50:01 PM) maccam-desktop: is ther a meeting going on atm?<<BR>>
(08:50:11 PM) DocKinneNotes: ATM?<<BR>>
(08:50:15 PM) maccam-desktop: at the moment<<BR>>
(08:50:18 PM) BillN1VUX: at this time<<BR>>
(08:50:18 PM) maccam-desktop: looks like it<<BR>>
(08:50:19 PM) DocKinneNotes: Yes.<<BR>>
(08:50:33 PM) maccam-desktop: sorry i couldn't make it tonight, things have gotten busier for me lately<<BR>>
(08:51:03 PM) DocKinneNotes: Oh! Cam! There you are! Can you tell us anything about anything new about the Installfest?<<BR>>
(08:52:15 PM) maccam-desktop: It really doesn't look like it can happen this summer<<BR>>
(08:52:25 PM) maccam-desktop: I haven't been able to find an appropriate location<<BR>>
(08:52:53 PM) maccam-desktop: i think that it may work out towards the end of september<<BR>>
(08:53:24 PM) DocKinneNotes: can you post a full update to the mailing list?<<BR>>
(08:54:18 PM) BillN1VUX: I was going to suggest we share a table or two at Sept MIT Flea with OSM and netboot for outreach, would be good PR op after students return<<BR>>
(08:56:28 PM) DocKinneNotes: Martin thinks this is a good idea, Bill. Would you like to organize that?<<BR>>
(08:56:58 PM) DocKinneNotes: Uri mentioned Software Freedom Day. We are going to contact FSF regarding dates and locations.<<BR>>
(09:01:02 PM) maccam-desktop: By the way on the installfest thing: Mako said he might be able to help us out at the Media Lab in the fall.<<BR>>
(09:01:45 PM) maccam-desktop: it might be good to schedule the installfest after that flea event and advertise it there<<BR>>
(09:02:56 PM) BillN1VUX: and a place selling used laptops will be a good place to dump 9.04 disks just before 9.10 arrives<<BR>>
(09:03:30 PM) DocKinneNotes: And thus the meeting endeth. We thank you all!<<BR>>

Introduction

Scheduled Time: 7:00 PM EST Thursday, June 25th, 2009
Scheduled Location: South End Technology Center (SETC) Join On Freenode IRC Channel #ubuntu-us-ma

Meeting Chair: Martin Owens (doctormo)
Meeting Minutes by: Doc Kinne (kinnerc)

Present

The following team members were present during this meeting:

Physically Present:

  • Martin Owens (doctormo), Programmer
  • Doc Kinne (kinnerc), Astronomical Technologist.
  • Dan Hollocher, Self-employed.
  • Mike Terry, Cononical.
  • Gerrard from Malden, Casual User.
  • Yuriy Kozlov, Kubuntu Developer.

Virtually Present:

  • Algot Runeman (Algot), Retired Teacher/School Computer Director
  • feliciaATcapestr
  • BillN1VUX
  • Cam Cope, RPI Student

Agenda Items

The following agenda items were proposed for this meeting:

  • Introductions (everyone)
  • Review of last month's Action Items

  • Status Report on ASC for Monthly Meeting (kinnerc)
  • Report on UDS and Karmic version of Ubuntu
  • Tuesday Class Overview
    • Posters and outreach for marketing
  • Open Floor (everyone)

Action Items

  • Martin is to send a note to the email list asking for people who want to teach or learn how to teach.
  • Martin to kick off a preliminary server teaching session for Wednesdays. Martin needs to nail down a time and place and send email to the list with regard to details.
  • Doc will contact ASC and Martin to set up an appointment to see the ASC facilities.

See progress for Action Items here

Proceedings

(07:29:17 PM) DocKinneNotes: We're waiting on Mike Rushton.
(07:29:30 PM) DocKinneNotes: First item on agenda is the action items from last month:
(07:30:16 PM) DocKinneNotes: Several things are not done revolving around the possibilty of an Ubuntu convention.
(07:30:22 PM) feliciaATcapestr: present
(07:31:09 PM) DocKinneNotes: :-)
(07:31:33 PM) DocKinneNotes: Cam is not here to deal with the convention, so we're pushing that item off in case he appears.
(07:33:11 PM) DocKinneNotes: Improvements on the Tuesdays Class environment:
(07:33:25 PM) DocKinneNotes: Martin was here by himself last Tuesday. Little hectic, but it went well.
(07:34:35 PM) DocKinneNotes: It looks like we have to reinstall the OS on the machines, i.e. a standardized teaching environment where all the machines are on the same OS version. Mike needs to finish with this.
(07:35:21 PM) DocKinneNotes: Martin spoke with Castle Street Community Center with regard to teaching them about Ubuntu. They were interested and Martin has invited them to our Tuesday meetings to learn more.
(07:35:41 PM) DocKinneNotes: Action Item: Martin is to send a note to the email list asking for people who want to teach or learn how to teach.
(07:35:53 PM) DocKinneNotes: Any questions about the Tuesday sessions?
(07:37:27 PM) DocKinneNotes: Gerrard was a bit unclear as to the role of us folks with regard to the Tuesday sessions. Are we teachers, or can we be taught as well? Gerrard felt that we should be both, depending on experience of the user. Martin agreed with this, as the "learn to teach, teach to learn" method is the core of Tuesday nights.
(07:38:56 PM) feliciaATcapestr: eventually someone is going to come in that I can teach....maybe about the same time Mike Rushton has grandchildren
(07:39:32 PM) DocKinneNotes: What happened to Martin's SysAdmin classes? Dan asked. Martin is now Chair for the Ubuntu Learning Group and is moving this agenda from that vantage point.
(07:40:40 PM) DocKinneNotes: Felicia, you nearly caused Martin to choke on his soda! :-)
(07:41:08 PM) feliciaATcapestr: oh LOL
(07:43:47 PM) DocKinneNotes: A discussion ensued between some aspects of System Admin, specifically packages and their ages.
(07:45:18 PM) DocKinneNotes: Examples went along the lines of web frameworks and languages such as Perl. Martin mentioned that such things need a current PPA in order to install recent packages.
(07:45:44 PM) DocKinneNotes: Mike had a side conversation with Gerrard with regard to exactly what framework package are.
(07:46:06 PM) DocKinneNotes: Mike T. brings the meeting back on track.
(07:46:50 PM) DocKinneNotes: Action Item: Martin to kick off a preliminary server teaching session for Wednesdays. Our schedule is now forever altered!
(07:47:20 PM) DocKinneNotes: Action Item: Martin needs to nail down a time and place and send email to the list with regard to details.
(07:47:52 PM) DocKinneNotes: Any other thoughts or questions on Teaching Sessions?
(07:52:10 PM) Algot: What focus difference is there, if any between the wiki.ubuntu.com/learning and wiki.ubuntu.org/learning. Some page content seems same other different.
(07:53:41 PM) DocKinneNotes: We started discussion meeting places for monthly meetings. Doc was looking at ASC for a meeting place. This is quite possible, but they want a nominal fee for the meeting place (about $20). Doc wondered why we wanted move form SETC and Martin explained that sometime SETC was just not greatly available.
(07:54:12 PM) DocKinneNotes: Martin thought that looking at the ASC location and facilities would be worth it.
(07:55:01 PM) DocKinneNotes: Action Item: Doc will contact ASC and Martin to set up an appointment to see the ASC facilities.
(07:56:38 PM) DocKinneNotes: Any questions about the monthly meetings or the Arlington Street Church meeting place possiblity?
(07:56:50 PM) DocKinneNotes: Martin recounts his adventures at UDS...
(07:57:08 PM) DocKinneNotes: UDS for 9.10 was held in Barcalona (said in my best Doctor Who voice). (07:57:40 PM) DocKinneNotes: A seminar was set up whereby community members were able to ask design experts questions. This went well according to Mike and Martin.
(07:58:23 PM) DocKinneNotes: There was also some discussion regarding "perks" that various companies are looking to give Ubuntu.
(07:59:04 PM) DocKinneNotes: With regard to the Community Track, the LoCo directory is being developed and is almost finished. Works is being done to improve the "goodies" we get when we do an event such as a Release party.
(08:01:06 PM) DocKinneNotes: There were also meetings about pushing the Ubuntu Marketing Group. This is something that anyone can join. It was noted that UDS that not many people are pushing the marketing end except outside the US.
(08:05:11 PM) DocKinneNotes: (As Martin took a phone call, the rest of us discussed the difference between classic hard drives and solid state drives).
(08:06:08 PM) DocKinneNotes: Mike Rushton was defeated by a marathon three blocks from the meeting place and is not able to make it.
(08:06:32 PM) DocKinneNotes: Back to UDS...
(08:07:23 PM) DocKinneNotes: Mike Terry is running an alpha of 9.10. They are working updating boot processes and kernel boot processes.
(08:07:57 PM) DocKinneNotes: With this new process, from the get-go your resolution will be as it is in X and there will be no screen flickers.
(08:08:12 PM) DocKinneNotes: The boot process will be about 10 seconds.
(08:10:09 PM) DocKinneNotes: With this new graphic stuff Nvidia cards won't be quite supported. They'll end up working in the end but they'll flicker since the Nvidia code is closed and can't be put in the kernel.
(08:10:29 PM) DocKinneNotes: This will effect 3D functionality and effects largely.
(08:10:40 PM) DocKinneNotes: Any questions or comments on UDS?

Open Floor (All)

(08:12:17 PM) DocKinneNotes: Now we go to the Open Floor aspect of the Meeting.
(08:12:26 PM) DocKinneNotes: The Floor is Open, Doc declares!!
(08:13:09 PM) Algot: What, no open chairs?
(08:13:26 PM) DocKinneNotes: <Poof!> There's a chair for you Algot! :-)
(08:14:21 PM) feliciaATcapestr left the room (quit: "Leaving").
(08:18:43 PM) DocKinneNotes: The Open Floor discussion went into talking about the difference between philosophical and practical aspects of OpenSource.
(08:18:55 PM) Algot: Doc- Back on my sofa. That chair is too hard.
(08:19:05 PM) DocKinneNotes: :-)
(08:20:04 PM) Algot: Is this group using the gratis/libre convention to explain "Free"?
(08:20:33 PM) DocKinneNotes: We have, yes. It makes sense and it gets around the ambiguity of the term in English.
(08:21:02 PM) Algot: Thanks, couldn't remember from earlier discussions.
(08:27:42 PM) DocKinneNotes: The discussion has moved to talks of Copyleft, Creative Commons and Non-commercial clauses.
(08:29:07 PM) Algot: I think I like the Attribution-Share Alike from Creative Commons
(08:35:47 PM) BillN1VUX [n=wdr@pool-72-72-47-59.bstnma.east.verizon.net] entered the room.
(08:38:13 PM) DocKinneNotes: Algot, those of us here would agree with you. No one likes the NC clause within Creative Commons.
(08:38:33 PM) DocKinneNotes: It's not obvious, but the NC clause works exactly the opposite of what it seems to say.
(08:39:49 PM) Algot: By-SA seems to offer the most freedoms and NC pulls any future profits away from users.
(08:40:10 PM) DocKinneNotes: CAM has arrived!!!
(08:40:35 PM) DocKinneNotes: What does Cam say about the Installfest?
(08:40:37 PM) BillN1VUX: depends on the kind of work. If I post photos, online, they'll be CC-BY-NC, but OSM maps i contribute to are CC-BY-SA , which is appropriate to that work.
(08:41:02 PM) BillN1VUX: All sweeping generalizations need specificity
(08:41:38 PM) BillN1VUX: i just had my own installfest ...
(08:41:46 PM) DocKinneNotes: Whoops. This is is not Cam. This is...Uri. Smile :-) We won't make Uri present on the installfest.
(08:41:57 PM) Algot: Bill, wouldn't your photos gain value by being used in a commercial "publication"? Private remixes don't get one much recognition.
(08:47:36 PM) BillN1VUX: yes
(08:48:05 PM) BillN1VUX: no
(08:48:38 PM) BillN1VUX: you're right, i don't want remixing of some of my photos either
(08:49:41 PM) maccam-desktop [n=cam@pool-71-184-217-132.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] entered the room.
(08:49:50 PM) DocKinneNotes: Gerrard brought up a "concern." After about a year of using the forums for help, it gets a bit tiresome when something new happens, Gerrard said. It would be more helpful if it was known that user x in the Boston area has expertise in specific areas.
(08:49:53 PM) BillN1VUX: code may want to be free, but if someone wants commercial rights to my photo, they can ask nicely, they're provided for .org or friends only
(08:50:01 PM) maccam-desktop: is ther a meeting going on atm?
(08:50:11 PM) DocKinneNotes: ATM?
(08:50:15 PM) maccam-desktop: at the moment
(08:50:18 PM) BillN1VUX: at this time
(08:50:18 PM) maccam-desktop: looks like it
(08:50:19 PM) DocKinneNotes: Yes.
(08:50:33 PM) maccam-desktop: sorry i couldn't make it tonight, things have gotten busier for me lately
(08:51:03 PM) DocKinneNotes: Oh! Cam! There you are! Can you tell us anything about anything new about the Installfest?
(08:52:15 PM) maccam-desktop: It really doesn't look like it can happen this summer
(08:52:25 PM) maccam-desktop: I haven't been able to find an appropriate location
(08:52:53 PM) maccam-desktop: i think that it may work out towards the end of september
(08:53:24 PM) DocKinneNotes: can you post a full update to the mailing list?
(08:54:18 PM) BillN1VUX: I was going to suggest we share a table or two at Sept MIT Flea with OSM and netboot for outreach, would be good PR op after students return
(08:56:28 PM) DocKinneNotes: Martin thinks this is a good idea, Bill. Would you like to organize that?
(08:56:58 PM) DocKinneNotes: Uri mentioned Software Freedom Day. We are going to contact FSF regarding dates and locations.
(09:01:02 PM) maccam-desktop: By the way on the installfest thing: Mako said he might be able to help us out at the Media Lab in the fall.
(09:01:45 PM) maccam-desktop: it might be good to schedule the installfest after that flea event and advertise it there
(09:02:56 PM) BillN1VUX: and a place selling used laptops will be a good place to dump 9.04 disks just before 9.10 arrives
(09:03:30 PM) DocKinneNotes: And thus the meeting endeth. We thank you all!

Conclusion

  • There is lots to do.

MassachusettsTeam/Meetings/Minutes/2009-06-25 (last edited 2009-07-21 22:00:04 by gehre)