2004-11-20
#Ubuntu-Meeting
Ubuntu-Meeting Log 2004-11-20
Topic: Shotgun Community Council meeting 05:11 mdz CC meeting? 05:11 Kamion here 05:12 Kamion um, had forgotten about it 05:12 Kamion we don't seem to have any agenda items 05:12 mdz anything on the agenda? 05:12 Kamion nothing 05:12 sabdfl nothing that i saw 05:12 mdz agenda on the wiki seems to be empty 05:12 sabdfl sorry for being late 05:12 sabdfl i checked this morning and it was just old stuff 05:12 Kamion do we have AOB? 05:12 sabdfl so made it blank 05:13 sabdfl AOB? 05:13 Kamion any other business (i.e. off-agenda) 05:13 sabdfl not from me 05:13 mdz yes 05:13 mdz I'd like to talk about the maintainer process 05:13 sabdfl hmm... maybe conference invitations to community members 05:13 mdz lack thereof, at the moment 05:14 mdz is someone expected to be working on community processes? jdub? 05:14 sabdfl mdz: do we have a framework for maintainers whohave been appointed? 05:14 sabdfl i think mako 05:14 sabdfl he sms'd me to say his net was busted 05:14 sabdfl he's trying to make another plan 05:14 mdz oh 05:15 sabdfl i would really like to get a community team going 05:15 sabdfl in other words have a few maintainers who are not Canonical folk 05:15 mdz we have a keyring for the archive, and a queue of folks who want to be considered 05:15 sabdfl with full upload capability 05:15 mdz the rest is documentation and procedures 05:16 mdz when mako and I talked about this last, we were on the same page as to how it should work 05:16 sabdfl ok 05:17 sabdfl ah, the clocks have gone back, that's why my alarm didn't go 05:17 mdz I also think it would be a good idea for someone on the community team to work with the doc team on a "how to get involved" document 05:18 mdz the categories I have seen so far are "I have a suggestion for improving Ubuntu", "I have a problem with Ubuntu" and "I want to become an Ubuntu developer" 05:18 mdz I wrote a document for the "I have a problem" case which walks through support and bug reporting basics 05:18 sabdfl the MaintainerCandidates page has a few people 05:18 mako2 there is already a participate document 05:19 mdz but i think it would be nice to have a very high-level document about how individuals can relate to the Ubuntu community 05:19 mako2 mdz: do you think it should be built on top of that? 05:19 sabdfl are there any there who have strong credentials from existing open source work that would allow us to approve them immediately? 05:19 Kamion also "when you *don't* need to be an Ubuntu developer in order to get your problem fixed" 05:19 mdz mako2: possibly, I'm waiting for plone to give it to me so I can see 05:19 Kamion thinking of the people who want to join just in order to get some theme added or whatever 05:19 sabdfl http://www.ubuntulinux.org/community/participate/document_view 05:20 sabdfl mako2: perhaps that just needs some more specifics 05:20 sabdfl "become a maintainer" doesn't tell you where to start 05:20 sabdfl just needs a link to the relevant process 05:20 mako2 right 05:20 Kamion (is there any way we can get rid of those daft "/document_view" bits on the end of all the wiki URLs? the URLs work fine without them) 05:20 mdz once the process is documented :-) 05:20 mdz Kamion++ 05:21 sabdfl http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/MaintainerCandidates 05:21 sabdfl is there anyone on there that we would feel comfortable approving right away? 05:21 mdz mako2: I'm thinking that it should have some very simple bullet points which link to more detailed documents 05:21 mdz mako2: each aimed at a use case which already exists 05:22 mdz so that a user who comes to the page who already knows what they want, can find the relevant interface 05:22 Kamion Matthias Urlichs is a competent Debian guy, IIRC 05:22 mako2 mdz: i'm happy to help with that 05:22 sabdfl i would be happy to approve some of the guys who have made great doc contributions already 05:22 mako2 Kamion: yes, we've been chatting a little bit offlist as wel 05:22 Kamion Thibaut VARENE is the ia64 guy and should be straightforward to approve 05:22 mdz his name is familiar, but I can't vouch personally 05:22 sabdfl as long as they agree just to work on package documentation 05:23 daniels lamont can vouch for thibaut, IIRC 05:23 mako2 Kamion: he maintains some non-trivial python packages 05:23 mako2 python-docutils (RST) 05:23 mdz elmo: do we have a public upload queue? 05:23 mako2 i can also vouch for thibaut 05:23 mako2 i was his AM in Debian so i've already gone through NM with him once 05:23 Kamion oh, he's the gnutls/gcrypt maintainer 05:23 elmo mdz: no - we're waiting on zope 3's ftpd getting fixed - I've just pinged SteveA about it 05:23 Kamion $ grep-available -nsPackage 'Matthias Urlichs' | wc -l 05:23 Kamion 80 mdz blinks 05:24 sabdfl gosh 05:24 sabdfl that would be a yes then 05:24 elmo yeah, smurf's competent IMO 05:24 Kamion (quantity not implying quality or anything, but :-)) 05:25 sabdfl Kamion: why do I always find myself agreeing with you when you point out that sort of thing? 05:25 Kamion I'm just such an agreeable guy 05:25 sabdfl erm. but i'm not. 05:25 mdz because of his sneaky tendency to be correct 05:25 mako2 yeah, but he also maintains some touch ones 05:25 sabdfl ah. yes, that 05:25 mako2 i've been working with him this week on preparing the new upstream release of python-docutils 05:25 sabdfl ok, let's take these one at a time, maybe that would be better 05:25 sabdfl we still need a proper process for guys we don't know already 05:26 sabdfl mako2, can we leave the process documentation in your hands, deliverable for the next cc meeting? 05:26 mdz yes 05:26 mako2 yes 05:26 sabdfl and mdz, can we handle both techboard and cc approvals today, do you have your tech board handy? 05:27 mako2 mdz: help me outline and check it,eh? 05:27 mdz hm, I'll see 05:27 mdz mako2: definitely 05:27 sabdfl ok: thibaut varene, opinions? 05:28 mako2 i was his am in debian 05:28 sabdfl already discussed? 05:28 mdz (prodded Keybuk) 05:28 mako2 i passed him there with glowing recommendations and i would do it again here :) 05:28 mdz sabdfl: mako and lamont both say good things, I've chatted with him and found him sane 05:28 sabdfl how do we want to do this, require all cc members to say aye or nay? 05:28 Kamion he's been sane when I've talked to him too; thibaut ack 05:29 sabdfl ok, thibaut is in 05:29 Keybuk evening 05:29 mdz cheers 05:29 sabdfl from a cc perspective, mdz, you make the call for tech board 05:29 sabdfl hiya scott 05:29 sabdfl sivan green 05:29 sabdfl he's been very "present" 05:29 Kamion sabdfl: I think requiring CC unanimity would be good until we have a clearer procedure 05:29 sabdfl lot's of enthusiasm on the doc front 05:30 mako2 sivan has been working mostly on doc stuff up until now but is interested in working with a mentor towards other types of stuff 05:30 sabdfl not much experience i don't think 05:30 sabdfl a candidate for the full process? 05:30 pitti I talk with him very often; he seems eager, but did not finish much up to now 05:30 mako2 he's been in contact with me directly several times a week about a number of things 05:30 mdz mako and I talked a bit, and I think the full process can very nearly be condensed to a single bullet point 05:30 mdz the key is that we can trust them to know their own limits 05:30 mako2 i gather that sivan would be happy with the fully process 05:30 mako2 right 05:31 pitti I think so, too 05:31 sabdfl mdz: can you turn that into something a little less existential? 05:31 mdz if we can be confident that someone will ask before entering unknown waters 05:31 pitti but he should finish at least a small coding project before he starts the full process, right? 05:31 Kamion sivan definitely isn't an experienced developer; I'd be happy for him to work with a mentor to bring him up to speed, but I also think he is inclined to ask people rather than storm ahead 05:31 mdz and not touch things that they aren't entirely confident about 05:31 sabdfl ok 05:31 Keybuk I've certainly not got any objections, have seen him around and he seems willing to help 05:31 mako2 sabdfl: so we pass him saying "you are a doc guy until we prove you can safely work beyon that. ubuntu is not the place to learn and experiment and make beginners mistakes" 05:31 pitti Kamion: for my taste he even asks too much 05:32 Kamion pitti: I wasn't going to say that :-) 05:32 mdz he's definitely enthusiastic; I can't say I know a thing about his technical interests or skills 05:32 sabdfl mako2: i'm hesitant to pass him on the basis of enthusiasm alone 05:32 Kamion pitti: (yes, it can be annoying; it's better than the other way round though) 05:32 pitti Kamion: but I do, he asks me all the time on every day 05:32 pitti Kamion: I agree 05:32 Kamion oh, he has done some security work with you hasn't he? 05:32 pitti As a matter of fact I already am a kind of mentor for him 05:32 Kamion pitti: how much has he actually done on the security front? 05:32 sabdfl without wanting to rehash the previous process discussion, we did say that we would expect candidates to collect a list of real contributions made 05:32 mdz Kamion: he helped with the Warty security review 05:33 mdz research 05:33 pitti Kamion: so far he helped with rewieving the 2002 DSAs, but nothing else (that I know of) 05:33 mako2 pitti: he's done documentation work 05:33 pitti mako2: sure, but I cannot evaluate that 05:33 Kamion has the doc work he's done been reviewed? 05:33 mdz doesn't the maintainercandidates page ask them to submit a resume? 05:33 mako2 i think sabdfl is correct.. lets have sivan work with pitti, myself, and whoever else 05:33 mako2 Kamion: no, but i can review the doc work for hte next meeting 05:33 pitti he often asks me to assign some taks to him, but so far he did not finish anything 05:33 mdz he did: http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/SivanGreen 05:34 sabdfl we should only fast-track people who we really know and have no doubt about 05:34 pitti I would not want to fast-track him 05:34 mdz sabdfl: agreed 05:34 sabdfl ok 05:34 pitti I will happily bring him through some sort of NM process 05:34 sabdfl if it takes him two or three months, it's worth it for him and for us 05:34 mako2 pitti: that would be great :) 05:34 pitti he seems eager to do the process, though 05:34 pitti mako2: I have some experience as AM, 05:35 mako2 pitti: well, this will be a little different but we can discuss that outside of the meeting :) 05:35 pitti mako2: but as I understood, the process should be shorter 05:35 pitti mako2: ack 05:35 sabdfl pitti: just long enough for you to be confident in him, and in your relationship with him 05:35 mako2 pitti: i'd like to do a better job of documenting the process so we work together to sort do a self-documentating process :) 05:35 pitti sabdfl: I can check his technical skills (and help him with that), but not necessarily the doc stuff 05:35 sabdfl pitti: that's ok 05:36 mako2 i can overview the doc stuff.. i follow their process/work 05:36 pitti sabdfl: okay, I'll do it 05:36 sabdfl he should be able to point to a list of doc contributions if that's his pitch 05:36 sabdfl ok, next 05:36 pitti sabdfl: but I will give him some real-world tasks rather than the theoretical Debian NM quesion 05:36 pitti sabdfl: s/quesion/questions/ 05:36 sabdfl mattias uhrlichs, smurf 05:36 Kamion sabdfl: aye 05:36 sabdfl pitti: fine 05:36 sabdfl Kamion: thanks 05:36 sabdfl elmo? 05:37 mdz perhaps it is sufficient to get N confirms, rather than tally votes from everyone? 05:37 elmo sabdfl: for smurf? aye 05:37 mako2 i already nodded earlier 05:37 sabdfl ok 05:38 sabdfl smurf is approved from cc 05:38 mako2 mdz: only 4 people :) 05:39 sabdfl oliver grawert? 05:39 Kamion bit of a lack of technical resume there 05:40 mdz he's been active on -devel 05:40 mako2 mdz: what is his nick? 05:40 sabdfl not known enough for me to like fast-tracking 05:40 mdz mako2: not sure, I meant the mailing list 05:40 daniels i believe his nick is ogra 05:40 mdz ah, he's active on #ubuntu as well, then 05:41 mako2 yeah, i've seen his messages but i'm with sabdfl here 05:41 mdz sabdfl: agreed 05:41 sabdfl ok, full process 05:41 sabdfl alexander poslavsky has been excellent on the wiki 05:42 mdz Alexander Poslavsky is a doc team guy, very active 05:42 sabdfl perhaps a doc candidate? 05:42 Kamion what's our general rule on doc team <=> maintainership? 05:42 mdz what does that mean? 05:43 sabdfl Kamion: i think doc team members should have full commit capability 05:43 Kamion mdz: what sabdfl just said. :-) 05:43 Kamion sabdfl: ok 05:43 sabdfl i think we said maintainers would also be able to push out a release 05:44 Kamion plovs is fine with me, I think he's earned his stripes up to now 05:44 sabdfl but in the absence of HCT, would we prefer to err on the side of allowing or disallowing uploads by doc team members? 05:44 mdz sabdfl: commits to the package archive? 05:44 mdz sabdfl: disallowing 05:44 sabdfl i'd fall on the other side :-) 05:44 mdz most of them have neither interest in packaging, nor a GPG key 05:44 fabbione i agree with mdz 05:44 sabdfl perhaps we could have a tighter policy post-freeze? 05:44 sabdfl empowering is better, if someone trips up pre-freeze it's unlikely to be a disaster 05:44 mako2 i'd prefer to not have two classes of maintainers 05:45 sabdfl mako2: we did already agree that though 05:45 sabdfl contributor - sends patches 05:45 sabdfl committer - can commit to the arch branches 05:45 mako2 right 05:45 sabdfl maintainer - can trigger the release 05:45 mako2 i was taking about maintainers 05:46 sabdfl in the absence of the arch infrastructure i'd prefer to use social structures to enforce "doc only" maintainership 05:46 sabdfl if someone uploads something thats out of line, that's a social issue 05:46 sabdfl which we can quickly sort out 05:46 mdz there are more issues apart from uploading things out of line 05:46 mako2 it's hard enough to get people to do the not-so-sexy documentation thing.. full fledged maintainership, whatever that is 05:46 mako2 sound good to me 05:46 mdz a new maintainer means a new key in the keyring, which needs to be properly signed and protected 05:47 sabdfl right, so we have to have confidence in the person's gpg security knowledge 05:47 mdz do the doc guys even want that responsibility? 05:47 mako2 mdz: i guess we should ask 05:47 sabdfl what's the worst case? 05:47 mdz worst case is http://www.google.com/?q=secring.gpg 05:48 elmo *giggle* 05:48 fabbione that reminds me of... thom? 05:48 fabbione ;) 05:48 mdz er, http://www.google.com/search?q=secring.gpg 05:49 sabdfl why would a maintainer be able to change the keyring? 05:49 elmo sabdfl: they can't - but if their key is insecure, then our packages are vulnerable 05:49 mako2 sabdfl: no, he's afraid they'll put their keyring somewhere whehere peopl can google it and download it 05:50 mdz mako2: well, I said that's the worst case :-) 05:50 Kamion that's an outside risk, but it's an example of general key management incompetence, which in its general form is common 05:50 elmo http://www.google.com/search?q=inurl%3Asecring.gpg 05:50 mdz elmo: yeah, that one 05:51 mdz whoever justin pryzby is, we wouldn't want his key in our keyring 05:51 mako2 ok, so the danger is not that we can't trust the nm candidates, it's our job to make sure we can 05:52 mako2 the danger is that we can't trust everyone who has their key :) 05:52 Keybuk yeah, anyone who manages to expose a private key like that should be shot Keybuk tickles thom playfully 05:52 mdz mako2: the question is whether we need to force people through that process in order to be an official documentation person 05:52 sabdfl i think it's reasonable to establish gpg practice understanding 05:52 sabdfl if that's a key requirement 05:53 mdz that is definitely a key requirement; it's the basis for our trust 05:53 mako2 i think a keyring of maintainers is a Good Thing for reasons other than uploading packages 05:53 mako2 voting, etc 05:54 elmo yeah, but we should probably have a separate keyring for uploaders 05:54 sabdfl the doc guys will need to be briefed and tested 05:54 mako2 the documentation are not writing advertisemennet copy.. they're writing technical documentation.. they should be able to figure out how to use gpg and get some key safety :) 05:54 sabdfl elmo: why have a separate keyring? 05:54 daniels elmo: one for voters/et al, one for people who can upload 05:54 daniels er 05:54 daniels sabdfl: ^^ 05:54 daniels sabdfl: so not everyone can upload libc6 05:55 mdz do we actually have any process in mind where we would hold a vote of the entire project? 05:55 sabdfl *cough* voting *cough* sabdfl wonders who ever considered democracy in these hallowed halls 05:55 Kamion mdz: cc/tb reelection 05:55 sabdfl confirmation 05:55 mdz Kamion: those are appointed positions, no? 05:55 elmo sabdfl: usual reasons: damage limitation, layered security, etc. - if the doc guys don't actually need their keyring, except once every two years or vote or something, they're much less likely to apply as-good-as-we-would-like security practices to their GPG key 05:55 sabdfl Kamion is (again) correct 05:55 mako2 call it consensus or just identifying yourself :) 05:56 sabdfl elmo: but the doc guys are definitely going to be committing to the codebase, and that will require gpg keys 05:56 sabdfl once we have bazaar flying, with hct 05:56 Kamion mdz: hm, there was talk of having them confirmed by plebiscite of maintainers to start with 05:57 sabdfl yes, nominated y me, confirmed by a plebiscite (!) mako network is revived 05:57 elmo sabdfl: sure - but until we get there, I think we need separate keys. and not all derivatives will be using upload-via-arch in any event, so we're going to have to deal with managing multiple "upload" keyrings anyways from an archive POV 05:57 sabdfl ok 05:57 Kamion sabdfl: (plebiscite is such a good word I just had to use it) 05:57 sabdfl but the question is whether we want to allow a doc person to upload packages 05:58 elmo sabdfl: <fascist-that-I-am>no. if they upload packages, they're by definition not a doc person</> 05:58 mdz if they meet the criteria, sure 05:58 mako what about documentation packages? :) 05:58 sabdfl i think someone who understands gpg, and who has agreed not to touch code, should be allowed to do so 05:59 mdz someone who understands gpg, and knows their limits 05:59 sabdfl if they break the social agreement, we have a problem that can be solved simply mako nods 05:59 sabdfl perhaps we can switch modes post-freeze 05:59 sabdfl to minimise the risk of an accidental stuffup 05:59 sabdfl so the policy is "looser till freeze" 06:00 sabdfl all of this is just till we get bazaar / hct 06:00 mdz it is? 06:00 mdz it seems like we have the same issues with baz/hct 06:01 sabdfl but we can distinguish between commit and upload 06:01 sabdfl whereas now we cant 06:01 mdz but without someone reviewing the changes, they're pretty much equivalent 06:01 sabdfl the additional review is a disincentive to contribution 06:01 sabdfl being able to upload is a big motivator 06:01 sabdfl instant gratification 06:02 mdz I'm not really worried about folks who are comfortable working with gpg having commit access to write docs 06:02 sabdfl i really think we should acknowledge the doc team's contribution with maintainer status 06:02 mdz what I object to is making their official status contingent on gpg usage 06:02 mdz they should at least be able to decline that piece, and still be officially recognized 06:02 sabdfl so they can still vote 06:02 sabdfl but not have to deal with gpg 06:02 sabdfl that's fine by me 06:03 sabdfl it's at their option 06:03 sabdfl elmo, can you live with this? 06:03 sabdfl separate keyring for voting, contains additional keys of maintainers who choose not to upload 06:03 mdz there's no need to require gpg for voting, since they should be able to do it by logging into the website or similar mako happy with that 06:03 sabdfl also true 06:04 elmo sabdfl: yeah, if we can discourage gpg key use when it's not necessary, I'm all for it 06:04 mdz what it sounds like we're moving toward is an official contributor status 06:04 mdz that's someone who can't commit, but participates, and they have a voice 06:04 sabdfl except that the "can't commit" is at their option, thus far 06:04 mdz in oxford, we said that the contributor (with baz/hct) could be anyone 06:05 mdz that it didn't require official status 06:05 sabdfl only because bazaar will allow branching so easily 06:05 mdz right 06:05 mdz but a contributor could be someone with a vote 06:05 sabdfl ok, this is a new idea 06:05 sabdfl but a nice one 06:05 mdz distinguishing them from the rest of the planet, community-wise 06:06 sabdfl particularly for doc team, and community support people 06:06 sabdfl guys who make a huge contribution 06:06 sabdfl and in due course we'll have industrial karma to give clear indications of who gets that voice 06:07 mako i still am not too hot on the idea of having contributors and maintainers be different 06:07 mako i think it sets up a hierarchy with the doc people apparently being lower 06:07 mako it doesn't bother me if they haev a gpg key, or not.. it's the political and social distinction that i'm most worried about 06:08 mdz it's a meaningful infrastructural distinction, though 06:08 mdz and reflects the way the community actually works 06:08 mdz that's how we arrived at it in oxford 06:08 mako yes, but we also said at oxford that doc people should be able to be full maintainers :) 06:08 mdz sure, they should be able to be 06:08 sabdfl mako: this is nothing to stop a doc guy from being a maintainer 06:09 sabdfl it's a new idea, afaict 06:09 sabdfl so, to summarise, mdz shout if i have it wrong 06:09 sabdfl we develop the concept of the "voting community" 06:10 sabdfl this includes maintainers and people who are also given a vote because of a significant contribution in some other field 06:10 mdz we already established a hierarchy of contributor -> committer -> maintainer -> ..., with "committer" being the point at which strong authentication is required 06:10 sabdfl maintainership means "can trigger or upload a package release" 06:11 sabdfl committer means "can commit to a package" 06:11 sabdfl mdz: would you see the voters as being all committers then? 06:11 sabdfl i'm not so sure about that 06:12 mdz sabdfl: what I proposed in this meeting was that contributors be able to vote 06:12 mdz which provides an official, voting status which doesn't require strong authentication 06:12 sabdfl the only example we have of voting is confirmation of appointments to tech and community boards 06:12 mdz and gives a useful home for contributors who aren't ready/willing to accept the responsibility of commit access 06:12 sabdfl id like those voters to be limited to substantial contributors 06:12 mdz but who are valued members of the community who should have a voice 06:13 sabdfl i agree "substantial contribution" doesn't only mean code, and uploads 06:13 sabdfl but it is still different from "have sent in a few patches" 06:13 mdz I would think that anyone who makes regular, high-quality contributions would naturally become a committer 06:14 sabdfl thats not what we were discussing though 06:14 mdz so if what we want is for only substantial contributors to be able to vote, I think that would be committers 06:14 sabdfl i was trying to follow up on your thought that "voters" need not equal "maintainers" 06:14 sabdfl i'm not even comfortable with that 06:15 sabdfl because we might ultimately have committers with fairly narrow commit rights 06:15 sabdfl depending on how good we can get hct 06:15 sabdfl we might, for example, give upstream guys all commit rights in the packages that they upstream code lives in 06:15 sabdfl im not sure that should give them a say in who sits on your tech board 06:16 sabdfl vs, say, a doc guy who has put in a lot of work on the wiki and website mako nods 06:16 mdz what the website currently says is "a vote amongst the maintainers" 06:16 mdz I guess if that's the sort of thing we will be voting on, then yes, it should be more exclusive 06:17 mako all we need to figure out is how we are going to identify contributions that are meaningful and then recognize those with status. the detail of who can committ where and where seems like it might be a technical detail we don't need to take on fully 06:17 sabdfl that's the only process we have that involves a vote 06:17 sabdfl for the moment, i think the best plan is to make the big contributors maintainers 06:17 sabdfl and have them agree not to touch code 06:18 sabdfl so for the moment it's fairly binary 06:18 mdz and the issue I raised with that is that it places a fairly strong technical burden on them, i.e. key management 06:18 sabdfl (oh, and they can agree not to upload at all) 06:18 sabdfl but they still kep their vote mako agrees with sabdfl 06:18 sabdfl later on, when we have better tools both for objective review of community participation, and code control, we can tune it 06:19 mdz so the proposed solution to that issue is to allow them to voluntarily decline commit privileges on their way to becoming a maintainer? 06:19 sabdfl if we had doubts, i suppose we could offer maintainership explicitly without upload capability 06:20 mako sivang: hey there 06:20 sabdfl but i would prefer that we simply test gpg knowledge, and if it's ok, let them have the option not to be in the upload keyring 06:20 sabdfl sivang: you'll want to read the logs of this meeting 06:20 mako mdz: that sounds reasonable 06:20 mako sivang: i can bring you up to speed aftewards as well 06:20 sivang sabdfl : so I've heared :) 06:20 sabdfl it's a simple way to get started 06:21 pitti mako, sabdfl: I already told him the short-short version 06:21 sabdfl ok 06:21 sabdfl can i hear back from elmo, mako, kamion on this: 06:22 sabdfl - we'll allow maintainers not to be in the upload keyring if they don't really need to be 06:22 sabdfl - we'll approve some non-code contributors as maintainers, so they have a vote where it counts 06:22 sabdfl - when we have hct / bazaar we can fine tune these 06:22 sabdfl ? 06:23 elmo works for me 06:23 mako that sounds fine 06:23 Kamion ok by me 06:23 sivang mako : thanks 06:23 sabdfl done 06:24 sabdfl on that basis, i think hornbeck and alexander poslavsky and enrico would be candidates for maintainership sivang regrets for missing the CC meeting. seems some really cool thing been decided. 06:25 sabdfl anyone want to weigh in on those three? 06:26 Kamion Enrico's a reasonable Debian developer, he might not be limited to just docs mako nods 06:26 Kamion but those three are certainly fine AFAIAC 06:26 sabdfl ok 06:27 Kamion Enrico's not on MaintainerCandidates? 06:27 mdz nope 06:27 sabdfl he's the doc team secretary 06:27 sabdfl seems sane to offer him the upload option, and a vote 06:28 mako yeah, absolutely 06:28 sabdfl can we move through the list quite quickly now? 06:28 mako fine with me 06:28 Kamion please 06:28 sabdfl let's just focus on establishing if there are people we know well enough to ack immediately 06:28 sabdfl others can go through the process 06:29 sabdfl saravanan reju? 06:29 sabdfl raju 06:29 mako don't know.. 06:29 mako process 06:29 sabdfl ok, full process 06:29 sabdfl john levin 06:29 sabdfl i don't know him 06:30 sabdfl anyone in favour? 06:30 mdz doc team guy 06:30 Kamion I've seen him around, but process I think 06:30 mako i know him from traffic on the doc list and such 06:30 sabdfl ok, full process 06:30 sabdfl martin krafft? 06:30 mako he seems to be active but definitely a doc guy 06:30 sabdfl full process 06:30 sabdfl Darren Critchley 06:30 mako full process 06:30 sabdfl David Walker 06:30 mdz talked to him, process 06:31 sabdfl Marco Bonetti mako nods 06:31 sabdfl nods what? 06:31 mako that was to the last comment 06:31 sabdfl Luke Yelavich 06:31 mako marco: i think i've met him but am not familiar with his contributions 06:31 Kamion he's the accessibility guy, Jeff's been talking to him I think? 06:31 mako luke: i don't know luke except a little bit of mailing list ubuntu stff 06:31 sabdfl i don't know luke 06:31 Kamion process, though 06:31 sabdfl Diego Andrs Asenjo 06:32 sabdfl process? 06:32 sabdfl Christoph Haas 06:32 Kamion Christoph> process, but would expect him to get through quickly 06:32 sabdfl ok mako doesn 06:32 mako 't know either 06:32 mdz who will have responsibility for notifying anyone who just became a maintainer? 06:32 Kamion he's the mentors.debian.net guy 06:32 sabdfl i'll send them a mail 06:33 sabdfl so let's be clear, i have: 06:33 sabdfl thibault varene 06:33 sabdfl alexander pos 06:33 sabdfl john hornbeck 06:33 sabdfl mathias urlichs 06:33 sabdfl that's it 06:34 sabdfl i'll send an email to -devel 06:34 sabdfl and to them 06:34 mdz you mentioned enrico zini earlier 06:34 sabdfl yes, enrico too, but since he didn't put himself on the page i'll check with him first 06:34 mdz ok 06:34 mako sounds good 06:34 sabdfl ok 06:34 sabdfl are we done on the appointments front? 06:35 sabdfl let's talk about community member sponsorship to the conf 06:35 mdz ok 06:35 sabdfl i think we can sponsor 10 people for travel and board, and 10 for board in each week, separately 06:36 sabdfl so a total of 30 people 06:36 sabdfl 10 get travel and board if they are willing to come for a full week 06:36 sabdfl 20 more get a week of board covered, if they want to get themselves there 06:37 sabdfl we have an internal wiki page, for internal nominations 06:38 sabdfl but i think we should also ask community members who are keen to sign up somewhere 06:38 mdz there is a page in the public wiki for that 06:38 mako mdz: sort of 06:38 sabdfl ok, has a mail gone to the lists inviting people to sign up? 06:38 mdz I believe the announcement of the conference included a bit about that 06:38 silbs yes, an email annoucement went out 06:39 sabdfl ok, let's announce the sponsorship separately 06:39 sabdfl we have already approved quite a few 06:39 sabdfl mako, will you coordinate that email with silbs? 06:39 mdz http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2004-November/000913.html 06:39 mako yeah, i sent the mail 06:40 mako sabdfl: yes sure 06:40 sabdfl great 06:40 sabdfl that email didn't say (a) where to sign up and (b) that we have some sponsorship available 06:40 mako sabdfl: where to sign up for sponsorship? 06:41 sabdfl mako: yes 06:41 sabdfl maybe also link to the mail archive from the web site home page conference headline 06:41 sabdfl so people see ont he home page that sponsorship is available 06:41 sabdfl Kamion, elmo, mako: any other business? 06:42 mako nope 06:42 elmo not from me 06:42 Kamion nope 06:42 sabdfl mdz, guests? 06:43 sabdfl ok, take that as a no 06:43 silbs on sponsorship - will nominees and decisions be public? 06:43 sabdfl thanks everybody 06:43 sabdfl i'm easy, i think it would be a good idea to send a mail saying who we were sponsoring 06:44 silbs okay. We need to make sure it is fair - a deadline for signing up so it isn't just a first come, first serve, etc. 06:44 silbs I'll work it with Mako 06:44 sabdfl ok 06:44 sabdfl thanks everybody 06:44 sabdfl workrave time 06:44 sabdfl meeting closed 11:14 cenerentola hi there Generated by irclog2html.pl 2.1 by Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net!
MeetingLog/Ubuntu/2004-11-20 (last edited 2008-08-06 16:37:30 by localhost)