Agenda
- Edgy+1 planning -- see Accessibility/Specs and [WWW] Boston summit notes
- Team structure -- support, documentation, development
Log
09:01 heno We'll start in a few minutes
=== Joanie [n=jd@c-24-147-88-22.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
09:01 heno some of the usual participants are missing
09:01 heno I expect TheMuso is asleep in .au :)
09:02 heno Welcome Joanie!
09:02 Joanie thanks heno
09:03 krister Don't know if it's ok to introduce oneself yet, but anyways, hi, Krister from Sweden here. Rather new in the a11y team.
09:03 heno great idea :)
09:03 heno I'm Henrik Omma, from Norway, Ubuntu Accessibility Coordinator
09:04 TheBadger Here goes then, I'm Mikael also from Sweden, and also quite new.
09:04 Joanie Joanie Diggs, USA, volunteer worker bee (delegate to me)
09:04 krister Hi my scandinavian brother.:)
09:04 heno Hi :)
09:04 heno How many people here bare using Edgy now?
09:05 frafu Francesco Fumanti from Luxembourg; rather new to linux
=== gk4_ [i=chatzill@nat/ibm/x-6f79bb7ba9cbdef7] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
=== gk4_ is now known as gk4
09:05 TheBadger I do
=== Joanie raises her hand
09:05 heno I get a feeling that people have been quite early in testing bleeding edge stuff
09:06 heno Hi gk4, we are doing introductions
09:06 krister I also use Edgy and have done so after a tip from the badger here.
09:06 frafu i do on my second machine
09:06 hittsjunk I've switched from main stream Debian to Ubuntu in early September.
09:07 heno So today we really just have two rather broad topics
09:07 heno #1 is Edgy+1 planning
09:07 heno now known as Feisty
09:07 Joanie hehehe Feisty what?
09:08 heno Fawn :)
09:08 Joanie lol cool thanks
09:08 gk4 I'm George Kraft <gk4> from IBM. I'm working on Linux accessibility for Gnome.
09:08 heno One approach is to look at the wishlist on http://live.gnome.org/Boston2006/AccessibilitySummit
09:09 heno and think about which parts of that are realistic in the next 6 months
09:09 heno and perhaps 12 months
09:09 krister How broad a field do we actually cover, i mean is it our goal to make as many programs as possible accessible or just a few main stream ones, like in that other alien operating system ya know?:)
09:10 heno The role of Ubuntu here should be to try to bring together some work that is going on in the community and package it in a useful way
=== cyphase [n=cyphase@ppp-67-119-186-34.dialup.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
09:11 heno krister: in our case it's more about making the toolkits and infrastructure accessible and the apps will follow
09:11 heno so most GTK stuff works well
09:11 heno while the KDE/QT stuff needs a lift with an AT-SPI implementation
09:11 krister That's the cool thing with this desktop. Most things seem to work.
09:12 heno of course we also need to test individual apps
09:12 heno right, but very key things like the browser are lagging a bit
09:12 krister Can i be specific for a moment or is this the wrong forum for it?
09:12 heno but great work is being done there
09:13 heno krister: go ahead
09:14 krister Any word on a good rather advanced audio editor? and how about ocr programs?
09:14 heno krister: I'm not sure if Jokosher is advanced enough
=== cyphase [n=cyphase@ppp-67-119-186-34.dialup.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
09:14 heno but is under rapid development
09:14 heno and is generally accessible
09:15 heno though we should follow it up closely
09:15 hittsjunk Ocrad and gocr are good enough now for me to use them to read my print mail.
09:15 heno hittsjunk: and you have them running on Ubuntu?
09:15 hittsjunk yes
09:16 krister I've seen a little of Jokosher, and it looks promising but i don't think it's there quite yet, but i could be wrong. I only have an rather old version.
09:16 heno would you mind writing a short howto somewhere?
09:16 heno hittsjunk: ^
09:16 heno in the forum, wiki or on the list
09:16 hittsjunk I still run them in a gnome terminal, so Windows users won't like my solution.
09:17 hittsjunk I feed the output from scanimage to the OCR engines.
09:17 krister There should be some sort of gui front end for GOcr. Could you please write the solution to the list anyway, Hitsjunk.
09:17 hittsjunk ok
09:17 heno hittsjunk: we should really get that linked up with the scanning app
=== MikePedersen [n=mikep@c-71-202-47-37.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
09:18 Joanie Hi Mike
09:19 krister Hi Mike
09:19 heno OK, so I now have one new spec idea: OCR support :)
09:19 krister And support for midi sequenzers like Cakewalk or somesuch...
09:20 heno Anyone have an estimate of when Firefox 3 will be somewhat stable?
09:20 heno krister: are there any realistic candidates?
09:21 heno it would probably need to be GTK, QT or command line
09:21 heno What about media players, how are we doing there
09:21 Joanie In terms of the list from the Accessibility Summit, if there is any way to look at the sound issues (item 14) that would be great
09:21 heno ?
09:21 krister What about Ardour? I looked around for more such things with apt-cache search and found a couple. Perhaps the badger knows something
09:21 Joanie quirky sound issues take out screen readers
09:21 hittsjunk Real player is a gtk2 app, so Windows media is the only missing format I know about.
09:22 heno hittsjunk: have you tried VLC with GTK or mplay (command line)?
09:22 MikePedersen I think the real problem with sound cards is the legacy OSS support that often times gets used
=== Adri2000 [n=Adri2000@unaffiliated/adri2000] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
09:22 hittsjunk no
09:23 heno Joanie: yep, I think we may be moving to polyaudio or something
09:23 Joanie very cool
09:23 heno Though I should raise this as an issue with our sound people (if we have any?...)
09:24 Joanie Yeah, if that can be prioritized....
09:24 heno I'll add that to my topic list
09:25 Joanie oh shoot, I just realized that I forgot to file on launchpad regarding a sound for the initial live cd screen
=== Joanie slaps forhead
09:25 krister Does anyone know if there's a sound forge like app for Linux accessible or not. Jokosher is multi-channel, Badger? or anyone
09:25 heno MikePedersen: you were at the boston summit right?
09:25 Joanie i'll file, but that little change would make a big difference
09:25 heno we are looking at http://live.gnome.org/Boston2006/AccessibilitySummit
09:25 heno to find implementable items :)
09:26 MikePedersen yes I was
09:26 heno krister: a good place to ask might be the ubuntu studio team: http://www.ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=128
09:27 MikePedersen We spent a lot of time talking about accessibility testing
09:27 heno Of applications, right. Is that a key bottleneck now?
09:28 heno Is the lack of support in application one of the main problems?
09:28 krister Heno, can you please mail that url to me at krister@kristersplace.ws? I'll have to go to windblows to check that out, since i don't entirely trust my dear firefox 3.:-(
09:28 heno And how much testing can be done manually by the community?
09:29 heno as opposed to automated tools, still in development
09:29 heno krister: sure
09:29 MikePedersen yes, we'd like to get as much automated testing for the infrustructure and the applications as possible
09:29 hittsjunk KrysterKryster, I saw an email about a sound editor in Emacs on the debian-accessibility list. You mi9ght want to check the archives.
09:30 krister Ok, i'll first tame Emacs and then i'll definitely check that.<smiles>
09:30 heno MikePedersen: how far away is a working automated testing system do you think?
09:31 heno that can see widespread use
09:31 MikePedersen I don't know yet, We are looking at dogtail right now
09:31 MikePedersen There is also hope of more colaberation between the dogtail and LDTP guys
09:32 heno ok. we have some general testing plans as well, but progress seems to have been slow
09:32 MikePedersen There will be a new list starting on gnome.org to discuss this shortly
09:32 heno yep, we should encourage that
=== jenda [n=jenda@ubuntu/member/jenda] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
09:35 heno anyone have comments about https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Accessibility/Specs
09:35 heno That's mainly my list of ideas
09:35 heno but other people should add theirs
09:36 heno How important is good access to GDM in real life?
09:37 krister What situations are we talking about now, sorry dumb question?
09:37 heno how many people use public/shared Ubuntu machines or may do so in the future
09:37 heno where bthat would be important
09:37 Burgwork heno: gdm accessibility is key thing
09:37 hittsjunk The gdm sound letting me know I can login is good enough for me.
09:37 MikePedersen we should be getting good aces to GDM with gnome 2.18. Some of the patches have already been checked in.
09:38 heno I guess most people have their home computers set up to ato login
09:38 heno *auto
09:38 Joanie yep, I think most do
09:38 hittsjunk not me
09:38 jonsd What's a GDM?
09:38 MikePedersen didn't know you could do auto-login
09:38 Burgwork jonsd: the login manager
09:38 heno MikePedersen: good as in not broken or as in Just Works? :)
09:39 MikePedersen Hopefully, just works
09:39 heno AFAIR, the instructions for setting it up are several pages long
09:39 heno ok
09:39 krister I didn't know you could auto-login either...
09:39 hittsjunk Until I can can run gnome apps on another system remotely, gdm isn't much use to me.
09:39 heno so we could get that for free
09:39 Joanie I'm thinking that needs to be on the wiki
09:39 heno (from gnome)
09:40 heno Joanie: yes, there are some useful tips we should collate somewhere
09:40 MikePedersen We'll also get apps that require sudo for free with 2.18
09:40 heno not directly documentation, but just useful info
09:40 Joanie right, tips and instructions for accomplishing them
09:40 krister What i feel would be important, but it's probably worked on already is a good way of making speech and braille follow when you switch to root when doing things with Symaptic or the update manager or such.
09:41 heno speaking of documentation :) Burgwork is on the doc team
09:41 MikePedersen we'll get that with gnome 2.18 Krister
=== Burgwork ducks
=== Joanie laughs. I can do some doc work periodically
09:41 heno I'm sure there are things we could update there
09:42 Joanie burgwork: you lead the doc team?
09:42 heno should the access team have a documentation coordinator?
09:42 Burgwork Joanie: no, mdke does
09:42 heno That can work with the doc team
09:42 Joanie oh dunno. Just wondering if there is one, being one of the new kids on the block
09:43 Joanie mdke is for general, or accessibility?
09:43 Burgwork general
09:43 heno and generally make sure we have reasonable docs for the web and the CD
09:43 Joanie k ty
09:44 heno that does not mean writing all the docs, but coordinating
09:44 frafu a coordinator for the doc would be a good idea, as the doc is rather sparsed around
09:44 Joanie yeah, maybe we should have someone coordinating
09:44 heno So do we have volunteers ? ;)
=== Joanie steps back
09:45 heno frafu: ?
09:45 Joanie I am a volunteer worker bee; not coordinator :)
09:45 frafu but it should be someone that already knows what documentation we already have
09:45 heno that rules me out :)
09:45 frafu in order to clean it up
09:46 heno we are at the start of a cycle now, so there is 4-5 months to get it in shape
=== GNAM [n=GNAM@host199-235.pool8252.interbusiness.it] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
09:46 frafu I am afraid I don't know enough yet
09:47 krister Not me either.
09:47 MikePedersen I'm afraid orca takes all my time.
09:47 frafu maybe 2 coordinators, one for the visual impaired and one for the motor impaired
09:48 heno We did have some people volunteering to do doc work on the list
09:48 krister What would be the tasks?
09:48 heno frafu: I'm not sure a split is a good idea. could cause confusion eventually
09:48 heno make a list of the apps and topics that need documentation
09:49 heno check the current status and ask others to help
09:50 heno then coordinate with the doc team on what should go into their main documentation
09:50 heno and what we should leave in the wiki
09:51 frafu where would the doc be? (if not in the wiki)
09:51 heno in the help browser on the CD and on help.ubuntu.com
09:51 krister Accompanying the program ass a special a11y readme, perhaps?
=== robitaille [n=daniel@ubuntu/member/robitaille] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
09:52 frafu ok, for offline use!?
09:52 heno the advantage of adding content to the docteam pool is that it gets translated by many volunteers in rosetta
09:52 heno frafu: right
09:53 heno or even printing
09:53 frafu Then it has to be in a special format?
09:53 heno some of the docteam stuff gets printed as well
09:53 heno yes, docbook
09:53 heno but the docteam can help transferring it from the bwiki
09:53 heno *wiki
09:54 heno that's their area of expertise
09:54 heno it can all be written in the wiki first
09:54 frafu Is the docpool anywhere online to see what is already available?
09:54 heno frafu: https://help.ubuntu.com/
09:55 MikePedersen All, I now have to leave for another meeting. If any questions come op for me, please send me a note at: michael.pedersen@sun.com
09:55 Joanie take care Mike
09:55 heno MikePedersen: cool, thanks for joining us!
09:56 MikePedersen I'l always try to attend.
09:56 heno OK so we'll let people chew on the doc coordination a bit
09:56 frafu bye Mike
=== MikePedersen [n=mikep@c-71-202-47-37.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has left #ubuntu-meeting []
09:56 heno another topic is forum coordination
09:57 heno to keep an eye on the forums and stay in touch with the forum staff
09:58 heno We are still getting a fair number of off-topic posts in there
09:58 heno (about wireless access and such)
09:58 heno but I'm not sure it's a big problem
09:58 frafu is it not the job of the moderators of each forum?
09:59 heno someone has to notify them
09:59 heno there are only about 20 of them for the whole forums
09:59 heno so they cannot watch everything
10:00 frafu notify by pm?
10:00 krister I don't think you can totally avoid such problems with posts drifting off-topic if you don't put up rules that prohibit those posts, and i don't think we want that.
10:00 heno another task there would be to answer simple questions, point to documentation or seek help from the wider community if needed
10:00 heno frafu: yes
10:01 heno krister: it's not that they drift off topic, they start completely off topic
10:01 heno they are about accessing your samba server not accessibility
10:02 heno I'm not it's actually a problem though
10:02 krister Ok, that sounds like wrong topics there...
10:02 frafu i know of another board with a notify moderator button; may be it is a good idea to add such a button
10:02 heno I'm more worried about people not getting answers when they ask
10:03 heno frafu: that is a good idea, I'll bring it up
10:03 krister Or getting the all too common answer in this world, RTFM. I could maybe try answering simple questions on the list.
10:03 frafu the button should be good visible
10:03 heno the most common example is sound problems
10:03 heno or general boot problems
10:04 heno which many forum regular know the answers to
10:04 hittsjunk rtfm is the best thing to do when you are new to something.
10:04 heno but our community is still a bit small, so we may not
10:04 Joanie yeah, but rtfm is not all that friendly or in keeping with the ubuntu philosophy
10:05 Joanie if we want more users with disabilities to adopt linux....
10:05 heno yeah, it's bad form
10:05 frafu and the person does not know what rtfm means;)
10:05 Joanie lol true frafu
10:05 heno then it's ok :)
10:05 Joanie but when they find out, they are likely to bail
10:05 hittsjunk True, but I loose patients with people who ask me the same question over and over because they won't read the links I give them.
10:05 Joanie radio transmitter frequency modulation, yeah, yeah....
10:05 heno but it can be said nicely by providing a link
10:05 krister And Kenny, i'll have to say that i consider myself very new to the Linux environment although i've come a long way, and sometimes, i find i don't even know what FM to R in the first place.:)
10:06 Joanie agreed hittsjunk
10:06 Joanie and agreed krister
10:06 heno do others agree that one or two forum coordinators would be useful?
10:07 Joanie yeah
10:07 heno who can help new people and forward questions
10:07 heno I'm not sure if the mailing lists need the same
10:07 heno unlikely at this point
10:07 TheBadger That's a good idea
10:08 krister Hitsjunk, i know where you come from, but see it like this, maybe they don't understand what they read and you or i explain things better than a rather dry man page or link.
=== zorglu_ [n=zorglub@86.73.86.115] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
10:08 hittsjunk Maybe, but the Gnome users guide explains basics better than I could.
10:09 krister I can't argue with you there, because i've only been to the help system.:-)
10:09 heno perhaps forum coordination/mentoring should actually be shared between a VI and an MI person?
10:09 hittsjunk I don't mind answering questions about I link I tell you to read I just have a problem when people don't read.
10:09 frafu vi, mi?
10:10 heno since personal experience can be important in answering questions
10:10 heno frafu: what you mentioned before: visual impairment and motoric impairment
10:10 frafu I also answer question when I know what has to be done
10:11 heno of course 'other' people can apply too ;)
10:11 heno frafu: do you think it would help in some way to have a coordinator hat?
10:11 heno some semi-official role?
10:12 frafu I still don't understand exactly what you mean
10:13 frafu if somebody wants to answer in the forum he will do so
10:13 heno someone who checks the forum once a week for unanswered questions and can forward them with some official capacity to other parts of the forum or mailing lists
10:13 frafu he can notify about wrong topics
10:13 heno as a forum mentor
10:14 heno right, but the forums have 130.000+ members, 99.9% of who don't read the accessibility section
10:15 heno when a question about sound or partitioning show up
10:15 frafu okk; are you talking about all the forums or only the accessibiliy forum
10:15 frafu ?
10:15 heno that can be linked to a new question in the general section
10:16 heno explaining some of the background, why jumping to the shell might not be a working solution for this person, etc.
10:16 frafu if you are talking only of the accessibiliy forum, i can do it
10:17 heno I'm talking about helping out in the access forums, yes
10:17 heno but drawing on the resources of the whole community
10:18 frafu unfortunately, I don't know much about accessibility except m2
10:18 heno as someone who has a bit more of an overview than a completely new person
10:19 heno but you now know where the general docs are found, how to log in to IRC to ask a question, etc
10:19 frafu yes, i do
10:19 heno and if you get stuck you can email or ping me on IRC
10:19 heno if you don't know the answer you can draw in someone who does
10:20 frafu i am ready to try and see what I can do
10:20 heno frafu: cool! I'll get you a hat :)
10:20 krister Too bad i can't build Elinks with Ecma script suppoHeno, how about a fedora?:-)
10:21 krister ignore the first part of that msg
10:21 heno no, but seriously I think that other community members will be happy to help with forwarded questions
10:21 frafu i will do my best
10:21 finalbeta Hello, I'm not part of the team, so I hope I'm not invading or in the wrong place. I posted the last idea on this page https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Accessibility/Ideas/Edgy+1 "Enhance spell checking". Read you where looking for idea's, That one would be immensely handy. being able to switch between languages for spell checking.
10:22 frafu you know already different people i could contact?
10:22 heno frafu: are you happy to look at vision/sound questions as well, or would you like someone to share the job?
10:23 heno finalbeta: I agree. do you have an idea of what packages need improving to make that work?
10:24 frafu it would be better if someone would share the job, otherwise I will probably only be able to point the person to already existing documentation
10:24 finalbeta heno, I think it should be discussed on how it could even be implemented. Like when talking xchat, how do you allow users to switch.
10:24 heno any other volunteers to help with the forum mentoring?
10:24 heno (we can ask on the forum and lists too)
10:25 hittsjunk I can try, but I'm not the most dependable.
10:25 heno heh, ok thanks hittsjunk
10:25 heno the volume is not too great ATM
10:25 heno finalbeta: it would be nice to switch keyboard layouts too
10:26 krister If the forum involves the mailing list, i can answer simple questions, but don't come to me for answers about programming or emacs, cause i don't know the first thing about them.:-)
10:26 heno I keep typing in the wrong places =
10:26 heno :) rather
10:27 heno krister: great, thanks. Looks like we have a support team!
10:27 krister Then i'll take care of the mailing list?
10:28 heno krister: excellent
10:28 finalbeta heno, I agree, but that seems like another issue. Switching of keyboard layouts. Since that is global, and spell-checking supports seems to be something that is handled per application.
10:28 heno finalbeta: I wonder if it would be possible for the spellchecker to figure out what language is being used?
10:28 krister Hitsjunk, be ready for stupid newbie questions from me.:-)<smiles>
10:29 finalbeta heno, MS Word can do it, but I have not yet seen it on a linux program.
10:29 hittsjunk No problem. I'll also try to answer questions on the list.
10:29 hittsjunk Remember, most of my experience in in the console.
10:30 heno it can often be useful to copy in other lists, like the general user list or gnome-accessibility
10:30 krister I'm slowly getting used to that evil beast myself, finally.:)
10:30 heno depending on the question
10:31 finalbeta heno, the problem with spellchecking I think is that every program seems to have it's own way of doing it. Gaim, Openoffice, Totem, Xchat..., how can you enable spellchecking in multiple languages in all those packages in a consistent way.
10:31 heno the a-devel list has not seen much use, but it will pick up with the new cycle
10:31 finalbeta (Scratch Totem from that list :p )
10:32 heno finalbeta: yep, it's a generally useful idea. do you know how to set up a spec?
10:32 Burgwork finalbeta: there was a spec to change that
10:32 Burgwork however, licensing is an issue
10:32 heno https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SpecSpec
10:33 finalbeta Burgwork, yes, with firefox, that spec was to enable one spellchecking lib. But not to enable spellchecking in multiple languages
10:33 Burgwork ah
10:33 jonsd A spellchecker ought to be able to recognise which language by looking for the one with fewest errors. Auto language recognition for TTS would be useful too. Perhaps a spellchecker could look at the text in order to tell TTS whuch language?
10:33 finalbeta Openoffice or firefox, on of the two needed it's own lib because of licensing. (I vagualy remember reading it)
10:34 Burgwork FF
10:34 Burgwork due to the MPL
10:34 frafu is there not already a framework for spellchecking in linux that could be used by the different apps?
10:35 Burgwork there are a number of libraries that provide that framework
10:35 finalbeta jonsd, indeed. The spellcheckers throughtout the system should be able to do this for the languages the user enabled language support for.
10:35 Burgwork I guess you coudl say that there are multiple
10:35 heno jonsd: that's s cool idea!
10:35 krister Jonst, this provided that there's a tts engine for that language. AFAIK there's only one engine today that support Swedish, for example and that's Festival, and i don't know how good that is.
10:36 heno perhaps it should be implemented in the spellcheckers first and then tie the TTS into that
10:36 jonsd I'll set up a Sweedish voice for eSpeak if you want to make it useable :-)
10:36 TheBadger Well i hope to in sometime have some success with swedish for the espeak.
10:36 hittsjunk I don't know how ggood festival sounds in Swedish, but it is one of the more stable gnome-speech drivers.
10:36 jonsd But Sweedish sounds look very complicated, see en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sweedish_phonology
10:36 heno what about spell checking as you type for screen reader users?
10:36 heno is there anything useable today?
10:37 krister No, or rather yes provided spell checker and speech provides the same languages.
10:37 heno has anyone tried mbrola?
10:37 TheBadger It is, but i have done some testing
10:37 heno that does have Swedish
10:38 krister But mbrola and festival is the same, ain't it?
10:38 heno does the same job, but in different ways
10:38 hittsjunk No, festival can use mbrola voices, but they are different synths.
10:39 krister Badger, is it the embrola voices you have for Swedish?
10:39 heno mrbrola is also not 100% Debian free
10:39 heno so we cannot put it on the CD
10:39 TheBadger I hope we could get some better functionality with seech-dispatcher (or a direkt driver for espeak).
10:39 krister could one stuff it into multiverse?
10:40 heno but we could put it in 'multiverse'
10:40 heno right
10:40 heno It would be great to see some testing of this
10:40 heno the Oralux team have made some packages as well
10:40 heno which may well install on Ubuntu
10:41 krister I'd love to, if i only knew what to do and how.<smiles>
10:41 heno look back a few weeks in the mailing list at the post from Oralux about it
10:41 hittsjunk I was planning to use the Oralux packages when I installed Mbrola this time. I'll post my results.
10:42 heno hittsjunk: cool!
10:42 krister Does Embrola work with gnome-speech or speech dispatcher?
10:42 TheBadger I've tried these a bit, but was unable to get the connection to gnome to work.
10:43 hittsjunk You use Mbrola with festival, and the gnome-speech festival driver.
10:43 hittsjunk The Mbrola voices will show up as festival voices.
10:43 krister Sounds complex, is there a howto somewhere?
10:43 hittsjunk yes
10:43 hittsjunk I don't have the link handy, but I'll find it.
10:44 hittsjunk If the Oralux packages work, it will be a lot easier to get it working.
10:44 finalbeta (Should I write a Spec about the Multiple language spell-checking, or can one of the accessibility teamers do it? If I do it it's likely to get ignored, like the other spec I wrote, heh)
10:45 krister Hitsjunk could we keep intouch via mail about this and about that elinks bug thingy?
10:46 hittsjunk sure. kenny@hittsjunk.net
10:46 heno finalbeta: writing the spec is only part of it, then you need to make others aware of (as you are now doing)
10:46 frafu heno: you asked before whether accessibility at the login was important: there was a thread in the accessibiliy forum where a user said it would be important to have onboard at the login screen on a tablet pc
10:46 heno it should also be scheduled for the summit
10:48 heno frafu: I remember. it's sort of a use case in the spec too
10:48 frafu ok
10:48 heno OK, shall we start to wrap up and continue detailed talks in #ubuntu-accessibility?
10:48 krister Wonder if the auralux packages contained Swedish. As i understood it from the mail there were only a few languages, but i could be wrong.
10:48 heno I think we've have a great meeting today!
10:49 heno some new ideas and a new support team!
10:49 krister Wow!
10:50 heno and it's been nearly two hours :)
10:50 frafu There is another thing I was wondering: why are you trying to add the accessibiliy to the normal livecd; why don't you make special cds?
10:50 heno not as long as some community council meetings of course
10:50 heno frafu: for several reasons:
10:50 frafu one for vi and one for mi
10:50 Joanie I'm all for special cds if they provide more compelling access, but I see live CDs in places like CompUSA.
10:51 Joanie they should all be accessible
10:51 heno yep.
10:51 hittsjunk Special CD's always will lag. One of the things I like about Ubuntu is they include accessibility in the main CD.
10:51 krister Agreed Kenny!
10:52 heno this way we get more exposure, more help from core developers, makes it easier to maintain, we don't lag several months behind
10:52 heno we actually followed the separate approach first
10:52 krister And we are on the cutting edge, which is very cool i think.
10:52 heno but it did lag
10:52 hittsjunk The difference shows. I couldn't use Gnome full time until I switched to Ubuntu.
10:53 heno It really started to pick up momentum when we joined the main CD
10:53 krister I couldn't use gnome at all under Sarge.
10:53 hittsjunk Main stream Debian has to many problems that have been solved in Ubuntu.
10:53 heno btw, you should all try Xubuntu as well
10:53 Joanie screen reader support there?
10:53 heno It's got Orca, festival etc.
10:53 Joanie wow
10:53 Joanie didn't know that
10:53 heno and it's very light weight
=== Linuturk [n=Linuturk@12.11.93.98] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
10:54 heno yeah, we've been working in the shadows :)
10:54 TheBadger Same way to start accessibility?
10:54 heno Not sure if the CD boot menu stuff will make it for edgy, but you can start it manually
10:55 heno not all the XFCE apps have good access support either
10:55 heno but we should work towards that
10:55 heno see http://blog.omma.net/?p=18
10:55 krister I can't boot my live cd, because there's something wrong in how Ubuntu sees my graphics card. It simply can't start in 24 bit mode.
10:56 heno krister: you should be able to type in some alternative boot commands with F6 at the boot menu
10:57 krister Dunno the alternative commands.:)
10:57 heno the safe graphics mode option might work too
10:58 hittsjunk There should be text files on the CD with the different possible boot commands.
10:58 krister Didn't we try that, Badger?
10:58 heno krister: I'll look it up for you
10:58 TheBadger will tryI think so.
10:59 heno krister: first try: boot CD, press down arrow once, then F5, etc
10:59 heno that should start it in safe graphics mode
10:59 heno (whatever that is exactly)
11:00 TheBadger I think its vesa
11:00 krister Is that the same as force-vesa or something like that, if so, i think it didn't work.
11:00 heno ah, ok. I dunno
11:00 hittsjunk Kryster, do you know the make and model of your graphics card?
11:00 heno this is a good question for the wider community though :)
11:01 krister I think theres something screwed up with the i810 driver, that's what i use... don't know though.
11:01 heno lots of people will know the answer to this in #ubuntu and elsewhere
11:02 krister Ok, i'll dig around.
11:03 hittsjunk I was going to suggest you google using the chipset on the mother board and Ubuntu as your search.
11:03 krister Will do.
11:05 heno ok, I'm off to sleep :)
11:06 heno Thanks all for joining!
CategoryAccessibilityTeam