12:02 lukacu meeting? 12:02 hno73 Agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArtworkTeam/Meetings/Agenda 12:03 lukacu artnay? === kafeine [n=kori@87.126.78.83] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === ealden [n=ealden@203.76.211.109] has joined #ubuntu-meeting 12:11 hno73 Trying again: Hi! 12:11 hno73 The agenda is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArtworkTeam/Meetings/Agenda === Ubuntuser_Ba [n=deb-user@ubuntu/member/ubuntuser] has joined #Ubuntu-meeting 12:13 hno73 I got one positive comment to the wiki restructuring and zero negative on the list 12:13 hno73 so I take that as 'ok, we don't mind' :) 12:14 kafeine i'm ok 12:14 kafeine :D 12:15 hno73 Right, then we can move to point 2 :) 12:15 lukacu :) 12:16 lukacu great 12:16 hno73 The todo list === jsgotangco [n=jsg@ubuntu/member/jsgotangco] has joined #ubuntu-meeting 12:16 hno73 jsgotangco: hey! 12:16 jsgotangco hno73, hi! 12:16 jsgotangco umm is there a meeting? 12:16 kafeine yep 12:16 hno73 art team meeting? 12:17 jsgotangco oh cool === jsgotangco didn't know 12:17 jsgotangco but since i have admin to art.ubuntu.com might as well jump in :) 12:17 lmanul Hi all :) === lmanul is Manu Cornet 12:17 hno73 jsgotangco, lmanul: see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArtworkTeam/Meetings/Agenda === jsgotangco is JeromeGotangco 12:18 hno73 Hi lmanul :) 12:18 kafeine mm, hno73, can you point me to the ToDo since the link at the Agenda seems broken 12:18 hno73 kafeine: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArtworkTeam/TodoList 12:19 hno73 sorry, that's my 'restructuring' :p 12:19 jsgotangco ouch that's a lot of TODO 12:19 hno73 or, actually, lazy wiki markup 12:20 hno73 jsgotangco: exactly. unmanageable 12:20 hno73 more of a general braindump area really 12:20 jsgotangco can we make some realistic milestones per dapper dev release? 12:21 kafeine and distribute them? 12:21 hno73 I think we should make a few simple recommendations for the distro team 12:22 hno73 a recommended icon set, wallpaper etc. 12:22 jsgotangco well obviously we can't be able to do all of this with such short time and manpower 12:22 jsgotangco i'd like to have better AUC action too 12:22 hno73 test them together, find out what is missing 12:22 jsgotangco but the approval process is so tedious 12:23 jsgotangco does AndyFitz stil do stuff for Ubuntu?l 12:23 hno73 better AUC action meaning better tools or more admin work put in? 12:23 hno73 I'm not sure 12:24 jsgotangco hno73, well approving and uploading submitted art is rather cumbersome for now, i've only did it like twice 12:25 hno73 yeah. fixing it is non-trivial though. My recommendation would be a moin-based site 12:25 hno73 It's slightly less elegant, but more flexible 12:25 hno73 there are no admin bottlenecks 12:25 hno73 anyone can upload content 12:25 jsgotangco and we're used to moin clean up 12:26 hno73 right. and we seem to be converging on moin as a standard now 12:26 hno73 http://www.ubuntu.com/ is moin 12:27 jsgotangco was it completely migrated? 12:27 hno73 The main thing that would be missing would be voting and ranking of stuff 12:27 hno73 it is now, yes === Ubuntuser_Ba [n=deb-user@ubuntu/member/ubuntuser] has left #Ubuntu-meeting ["Fui!"] 12:28 hno73 if you didn't notice, it means it went fairly well :) 12:28 jsgotangco well i knew from the beginning we were moving to moin, i mean we've worked in orchard, i can see the similarities :) === jsgotangco thinks the best way to jumpstart art team is to define goals and plan of action for dapper 12:30 hno73 About the team itself. I guess volvoguy was leading it, but isn't well. Has someone else taken over for now or is it floating freely ATM? 12:30 jsgotangco no idea === hno73 agrees with jsgotangco 12:31 jsgotangco the TODO we have on the wiki is a good start, but not a great staging area 12:31 hno73 So, proposals for dapper goals? 12:32 hno73 some items like the wallpaper and icons will be contracted out at least in part 12:32 jsgotangco most likely we'll not diverge much from GNOME HIG standards 12:32 hno73 but there is example content and secondary themes 12:32 jsgotangco is art responsible for sample content? 12:32 hno73 No, I am :) === jsgotangco thought it was jdub's area 12:33 hno73 but, it's an easy place to contribute 12:33 jsgotangco sample content - what does it consist? even media files? 12:33 hno73 making some nice OOo documents should be a doable task 12:34 jsgotangco oh okay, so its an artwork task for dapper 12:34 hno73 yes, but music and video is difficult to find in high quality + free license 12:34 hno73 it can be, if we decide so 12:34 jsgotangco how about just doing some desktop action in istanbul? 12:34 hno73 we can select 5-10 wallpapers for a start === mhz [n=mhz_chil@moinmoin/fan/mhz] has joined #ubuntu-meeting 12:35 kafeine istanbul is pretty buggy 12:35 hno73 that sounds good, any experience with that 12:35 hno73 mhz! 12:35 jsgotangco well i would think volvoguy's svg wallpapers are a good candidate 12:35 mhz hno73: yes, I just got back to the computer 12:35 mhz hno73: sorry 12:36 jsgotangco i can try the one in dapper, the one in breezy isn't so hot 12:36 hno73 mhz: no worries, nice to see you :) 12:36 mhz thx 12:37 hno73 I just got back from the distro-sprint of death https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2006-February/000066.html 12:37 jsgotangco oh the distro sprint of death is now the common tag for it 12:37 hno73 jsgotangco: sounds cool. We should have a soundtrack over it 12:38 hno73 yeah, I think so 12:38 hno73 It might have been food poisoning. I seem to have escaped ok 12:39 jsgotangco thats too bad 12:39 jsgotangco me and sabdfl were talking about it yesterday (he was here) 12:39 hno73 Ah right, how was your meeting? 12:39 jsgotangco pretty good he's upbeat 12:40 jsgotangco i got to meet malcolm and hande too 12:40 jsgotangco they're in tokyo now 12:40 hno73 cool, hectic schedule 12:40 hno73 So, I've been playing with icons today. Who has tried Yasis? 12:40 hno73 what do you guys use? === jsgotangco haven't 12:41 jsgotangco Yasis is an icon theme? === mhz uses Tango and Gartoon === jsgotangco has only used Tango 12:41 hno73 yes http://art.gnome.org/themes/icon/1168 12:41 Kyral Tango++ 12:41 jsgotangco but it doesn't fit our brown scheme 12:41 Kyral and ++Tango :D 12:41 jsgotangco (needs working) 12:41 hno73 Tango is a bit too blue for Ubuntu atm though 12:41 hno73 I like it otherwise 12:42 Kyral Good for Kubuntu? 12:42 jsgotangco its preety neat for KDE 12:42 hno73 and Gartoon is of course 'owned' by ubuntu 12:42 jsgotangco but the greenish stuff makes it look a bit like SuSE 12:42 hno73 KDE has a wider choice of suitable sets IMO 12:43 hno73 because kubuntu use a standard colour scheme (blue) 12:43 hno73 while ubuntu went revolutionary brown 12:43 mhz well, IIRC, Xubuntu default will be Tango 12:44 jsgotangco that would be nice === klepas [n=klepas@203-213-31-142.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #ubuntu-meeting 12:44 jsgotangco are we really getting a Xubuntu iso? sabdfl was pitching it already 12:44 klepas moin moin 12:44 mhz jsgotangco: "pitching it" 12:44 mhz ? 12:44 mhz klepas: moin 12:45 jsgotangco mhz, he added it on the list of other ubuntu-based distros in his presentations === earobinson [n=earobins@64.231.170.14] has joined #ubuntu-meeting 12:45 mhz oh, cool 12:45 hno73 So, IMO a task for the art team can be to test various icon themes and form an recomendation 12:46 jsgotangco well ive already tested tango... 12:46 jsgotangco it seems to be the future 12:46 hno73 Yasis is the most suitable I've seen so far 12:46 jsgotangco are you thinking of adding another iconset to the distro? 12:46 hno73 true, but we'd need to change quite a few of the blue icons 12:46 mhz any news from the "pros" hired by Canonical? 12:47 hno73 jsgotangco: I'm thinking of recommending a new default for dapper 12:47 jsgotangco mhz, what they've done mostly are backgrounds 12:47 jsgotangco hmm 12:47 mhz jsgotangco: oh, will they do icons? 12:47 hno73 mhz: there are people contracted to work on icons, but there isn't time to do a whole set 12:48 mhz jsgotangco: oh, have they choosen an icon set? 12:48 hno73 so we have to build on an existing one 12:48 hno73 Tango is a good option 12:48 klepas hey guys 12:48 jsgotangco i can look into it this weekend 12:48 hno73 Yasis and nouveXT are others 12:48 klepas i've talked to Andy, Mark and Jeff about this artwork problem 12:49 jsgotangco and? 12:49 hno73 klepas: recently? 12:49 klepas yes 12:49 klepas just last week 12:49 klepas and in person 12:49 hno73 cool 12:49 jsgotangco LCA? 12:49 klepas yep 12:49 jsgotangco so you saw sabdfl's ravishing new haircut 12:49 klepas news might not be to welcome though 12:50 hno73 klepas: go ahead 12:50 klepas Canonical has their own hired graphic artists 12:50 jsgotangco oh we're aware of that 12:50 klepas in fact they are most likely going to hire more, especially one to make an icon set 12:51 klepas we won't be able to say "here's our work" and it will be included 12:51 hno73 right, but we can still make recomendations 12:51 klepas we can still get stuff into mainstream 12:51 hno73 klepas: we never would though 12:51 klepas if it really good 12:51 klepas mostly in terms of splashes, GDMs and wallpapers 12:51 hno73 there is always a process of evaluation and comments, etc 12:52 klepas that is true too 12:52 klepas this basically means we can probably forget trying to regulate all art in ubuntu 12:52 klepas at least for now 12:52 hno73 That happens with the hired pros too, but often by phone or in person 12:52 jsgotangco hey we still have community 12:52 hno73 so it's faster 12:52 klepas yep 12:53 jsgotangco we can put more resource to AUC 12:53 klepas but for example, our art could still easily get in 12:53 hno73 I think we need to identify which areas we can and should focus on 12:53 klepas even if it is not the default wallpaper for example 12:53 klepas it could still come in as one of the two or so others 12:53 hno73 exactly 12:54 klepas hno73: wallpapers, splashes, GDMs and that's about it 12:54 hno73 we are also adding 'Example Content' 12:54 hno73 which can include wallpapers and other images 12:54 klepas that does not mean that we can't do other stuff too, like GTK and metacity stuff, but stuff like the above would have a higher chance 12:54 jsgotangco hno73, the example content, for example with OOo docs, we can use text from public domain 12:54 hno73 it would be natural to take that fro the team 12:55 klepas so, basically as the art team we have a few things to do 12:55 klepas fix up wiki 12:55 hno73 right, as a base, but we can then include artwork in the documents 12:55 klepas get AUC working 12:55 klepas and start doing some art :) 12:55 hno73 get AUC working or replace AUC? 12:56 klepas i'll leave that up to your imagination 12:56 klepas :) 12:56 mhz and the very good thing about artwork from community is that we ALWAYS provide SVG and source files :D 12:56 klepas mhz: yep 12:56 klepas it would be interesting to see whether we could get the XCF or PSD file for the current breezy default wallpaper 12:57 hno73 I'm keen to separate the concepts of generating new art and selecting art for inclusion === mhz hopes the pros understand they should also provide sources as thye work on Ubuntu (I am who I am because ...) 12:57 hno73 the second can come from the whole FOSS world 12:58 mhz also, Artwork team can help LoCo teams 12:58 mhz they always need artwork 12:58 jsgotangco mhz, with little manpower at the moment? 12:58 klepas oh 12:58 klepas there was a sort of request though 12:58 mhz jsgotangco: hehehe, yes and no 12:58 klepas of the art team 12:58 jsgotangco we wouldnt want to spread ourselves thin :/ If the art team has the view they we will create art which will eventually be 12:58 hno73 included in the distro as a natural process, we will see a lot of frustration and disapointment 12:59 mhz yup 12:59 klepas to make and manage universe art packages 12:59 klepas Mark and Jeff really would love some themed art packages 12:59 mhz unless we state it every where: "don't think you do this and ..." 12:59 klepas like a modern theme or a continental theme 01:00 hno73 fixing the accessible themes would be good too 01:00 klepas yea 01:01 hno73 and it should be easy because those icons are very basic 01:01 hno73 it currently breaks in stuff like OOo and firefox 01:01 hno73 defaulting to normal icons 01:01 klepas have you guyes seen artnay ? 01:02 hno73 accessibility will be installed in dapper by default, in various ways 01:02 hno73 So it would be nice if the themes worked better 01:02 mhz hno73: that is great! 01:03 hno73 mhz: yep, latest news from the distro sprint :) 01:03 hno73 https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2006-February/014969.html 01:04 jsgotangco the installer stuff news is great 01:05 hno73 yep. Do we have anyone on the team who can do simple icons? 01:06 jsgotangco well not for this cycle 01:06 klepas hno73: what do you mean? === jsgotangco used to be good with artowkr 01:07 hno73 klepas: what do I mean by simple icons? 01:07 hno73 like what is involved? === hno73 has never made any icons :) 01:08 jsgotangco svg makes them easier though 01:08 hno73 but it strikes be that the high viz ones are the easiest to do 01:09 hno73 it might even just be a question of tweaking, duplicating and symlinking a bit 01:09 klepas what i meant are these icons for? 01:09 hno73 the accessibility icons? Install the gnome high visibility theme to see them 01:10 mhz hno73: how many icons would you need? 01:10 hno73 they are very simple, high contast icons 01:10 klepas ah, okay 01:10 hno73 for people with poor vision 01:10 mhz hno73: rephrase.. icons to launch apps or icons per every button in each app? 01:11 hno73 mhz: not, sure. 20-30 perhaps and then check lot's of links and refrences 01:11 hno73 mhz: I think 90% of the launch icons are in place 01:12 hno73 but only 10% of the icons in the OOo and FF toolbars 01:12 hno73 but it might just be a question of copying and renaming 01:12 hno73 Gedit has a complete set AFAIR === mhz needs to check agenda.. he doesn't want to say "I own it" if later he can't 01:12 jsgotangco hmmm === jsgotangco can only test for now and do AUC 01:13 hno73 mhz: you know you want it :) 01:13 mhz hehehehe 01:14 mhz hno73: it's that in my ToDo list a Moin-a11y CSS had a priority 01:14 hno73 mhz: we were also talking about possibly moving AUC to moin 01:14 mhz and I guess I am already late for that :D 01:14 mhz hno73: that I read, but artnay has good points 01:14 hno73 mhz: I've been working on that too. we need to share notes :) 01:15 mhz and I have not had the chance to show off some Moin "plugins" or "macros" for handling images 01:15 mhz artnay: ping? 01:16 mhz artnay_: ping 01:16 mhz ooofff, guys... family duties calling again! 01:16 mhz sorry I have to go === mhz will read backlogs again!! 01:17 hno73 OK, I think I should retire too === mhz is tired of reading logs instead of participating 01:17 hno73 Let's do another meeting again soon though 01:17 hno73 perhaps with a few more team members :) 01:17 jsgotangco good idea 01:17 jsgotangco who will write a report? 01:18 mhz yup 01:18 mhz not lukacu :D === jsgotangco work time already 01:18 hno73 :D === mhz [n=mhz_chil@moinmoin/fan/mhz] has left #ubuntu-meeting ["Leaving"] 01:18 jsgotangco we'll need fridge love so a report would be good 01:18 jsgotangco oh mhz left 01:19 jsgotangco hno73, a minute? 01:19 hno73 jsgotangco: yep 01:19 jsgotangco orchard TODO and target dates? 01:20 hno73 hm. You have a deadline soon right? 01:21 hno73 btw, I just moved the site today: http://www.theopencd.org/ 01:21 hno73 finally, the wiki and website in one 01:22 hno73 a real moin-based CD is looking unrealistic for the next release though 01:22 jsgotangco ive tried it doing it, its been trashing the cd hard 01:22 hno73 how many new applications did you have in mind? 01:23 jsgotangco well i was thinking of doing a spinoff for mac 01:23 hno73 trying to write stuff to the CD? 01:23 hno73 oh, right 01:24 jsgotangco but are we still including livecd? 01:25 hno73 no I plan to drop that now. 01:25 jsgotangco ok i'll make up a list then 01:25 hno73 people will distribute pure live CDs anyway 01:25 hno73 and it makes derivatives difficult 01:26 hno73 plus it sqeezes the space too much 01:26 hno73 it was a good idea, but not that useful 01:26 jsgotangco ok so i'll just go wild on the orchard wiki? 01:27 hno73 Ubuntu is much bigger than theopencd so it doesn't really need the marketing help :) 01:27 hno73 jsgotangco: yes, please do 01:27 jsgotangco i'll consider pia's suggestions too 01:27 hno73 the edu-cd? 01:27 jsgotangco well not a separate cd 01:28 hno73 but more educational stuff 01:28 jsgotangco we have like 400MB+ now available :) 01:28 hno73 there isn't really that much good stuff for win 01:28 hno73 yep 01:28 jsgotangco how about open content 01:29 hno73 yes, the open clip art lib should go in now 01:29 hno73 as can wallpapers and stuff 01:29 hno73 Ubuntu art team wallpapers! === hno73 hopes inkscape is stable enough on win32 to go in now 01:30 hno73 it was pretty bad before === lmanul [n=manu@dan75-4-82-239-58-38.fbx.proxad.net] has left #ubuntu-meeting ["Ex-Chat"] 01:30 hno73 we do need to be quite careful about quality 01:31 hno73 ok, I should go now 01:31 jsgotangco ok good night 01:32 hno73 jsgotangco: just ping me tomorrow or whenever 01:32 jsgotangco k 01:32 hno73 good night all