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(11:02:38 AM) dholbach: we have an action-packed agenda today: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda
(11:02:38 AM) jsgotangco: heh
(11:02:41 AM) hwilke is now known as hfwilke
(11:02:56 AM) dholbach: jono: are you around?
(11:02:56 AM) TechnoViking: but will contribute when I can
(11:03:07 AM) posingaspopular: hey all, im up for membership today
(11:03:12 AM) ***posingaspopular sits back for the time being
(11:03:29 AM) jsgotangco: perhaps we can start on some topics
(11:03:36 AM) sabdfl: ok, i only have one hour, so want to race ahead on the agenda
(11:03:42 AM) sabdfl: full focus, let's dive in
(11:03:45 AM) TechnoViking: so poke me if I don't repond:)
(11:03:52 AM) sabdfl: jono: membership approval boards?
(11:04:11 AM) dholbach: jono seems to be stuck in in a call still, so maybe move on to AmirEldor's agenda point for now
(11:04:49 AM) jono: sorry on a call, can we return to this later?
(11:04:53 AM) dholbach: does anybody know anything about Amir Eldor and his "LoCo Website Hosting. Several teams find it diffcult to manage their websites/domains due to lack of communciation with Canonical's sysadmins" point?
(11:04:56 AM) jsgotangco: AmirEldor is around?
(11:05:17 AM) \sh_away is now known as \sh
(11:05:36 AM) sabdfl: apparently not
(11:05:36 AM) jsgotangco: it seems no one here is representing that
(11:05:37 AM) dholbach: Ok... let's move on to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncil/Delegation for now then
(11:05:50 AM) dholbach: it's my agenda point and about the election process of team councils
(11:06:39 AM) sabdfl: +1 from me
(11:06:44 AM) dholbach: +1 from me too
(11:06:44 AM) sabdfl: i think it's clear and sensible
(11:06:45 AM) jsgotangco: my understanding is that we've been doing this with some teams early on
(11:06:56 AM) TechnoViking: look good +1
(11:06:56 AM) sabdfl: this is not the delegation of membership
(11:07:09 AM) sabdfl: it's the replacement-of-council-members process that we are focused on today
(11:07:15 AM) sabdfl:      Draft for Team Council member election
(11:07:17 AM) sabdfl: that part
(11:07:21 AM) sabdfl: right dholbach?
(11:07:25 AM) dholbach: sabdfl: exactly
(11:07:39 AM) jsgotangco: good to me
(11:07:53 AM) sabdfl: basically, call fr proposals, TB/CC shortlists, vote
(11:07:58 AM) somerville32: I'm here
(11:07:59 AM) sabdfl: is that everyone?
(11:08:04 AM) dholbach: yes
(11:08:05 AM) somerville32: re: hosting issues
(11:08:12 AM) dholbach: excellent - I will announce it and document it accordingly
(11:08:13 AM) sabdfl: alright, we have a decision
(11:08:16 AM) sabdfl: thanks daniel
(11:08:21 AM) soren: \o/
(11:08:23 AM) dholbach: woohoo
(11:08:25 AM) ***dholbach hugs soren
(11:08:28 AM) johnc4510-laptop: nice
(11:08:38 AM) sabdfl: somerville32: are you AmirEldor ?
(11:08:40 AM) dholbach: somerville32: great... can you let us know what the issues are?
(11:08:42 AM) ***soren hugs dholbach!
(11:08:54 AM) somerville32: I'm not AmirEldor, no
(11:09:12 AM) somerville32: However, I was going to bring it up but noticed AdmirEldor already had
(11:09:52 AM) jsgotangco: is this regarding existing hosting or new ones
(11:10:04 AM) somerville32: existing
(11:10:33 AM) jsgotangco: ok can you elaborate/cite an experience about it
(11:10:47 AM) somerville32: If we take a walk over to the community rt at http://rt.ubuntu.com, you'll notice that there are 27 tickets open for LoCo team issues
(11:11:01 AM) posingaspopular: jsgotangco: the chicago team has had our planet down for months now
(11:11:10 AM) somerville32: A number of them open for over 3 months with little to no triage
(11:11:24 AM) Admiral_laptop: the entire domain actually since there was an attack on teh Canonical server
(11:11:33 AM) smurf: does that RT have guest access?
(11:11:41 AM) Admiral_laptop is now known as Admiral_Chicago
(11:11:58 AM) sabdfl: Admiral_Chicago: iirc, it was not a Canonical server that was attacked
(11:12:11 AM) sabdfl: in fact, elmo and co have been trying to clean up and help out
(11:12:16 AM) somerville32: For example, the ubuntu-ca team requested shell accounts on Fri Oct 05 07:01:12 2007
(11:12:28 AM) jsgotangco: thats right there are some teams on a different server host
(11:12:34 AM) Admiral_Chicago: sabdfl: it may not have been but it was a big deal, hit slashdot and digg iirv
(11:12:42 AM) jsgotangco: and those servers have ssl keys of reps from lcoteams
(11:13:02 AM) somerville32: The request was re-sent on Fri, 2 Nov 2007 19:26:35 -0700 and Fri, 28 Dec 2007 23:16:00 -0800
(11:13:07 AM) sabdfl: i don't know enough about the current loco website offering
(11:13:15 AM) jsgotangco: same here
(11:13:20 AM) jsgotangco: but what i recall before
(11:13:33 AM) jsgotangco: is that locos were on a bunch of servers outside canonical's
(11:13:41 AM) somerville32: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/loco-contacts/2007-August/001510.html <-- describes the current policy
(11:13:42 AM) sabdfl: not sure who the sysadmins are that would fulfil these requests
(11:13:43 AM) sabdfl: if canonical is providing hosting they probably cannot just grant anyone admin access
(11:13:43 AM) jsgotangco: and had the ssl keys of those who volunteered to maintain
(11:13:55 AM) jsgotangco: thats right
(11:13:57 AM) somerville32: sabdfl, The issue is that they're not even replying to some tickets.
(11:14:04 AM) boredandblogging: locos have the option of being hosted by canonical but restricted in what they can run
(11:14:22 AM) boredandblogging: or they can choose to run their own
(11:14:34 AM) popey: (or get someone else to host it like ubuntu-eu.org)
(11:14:41 AM) jsgotangco: right
(11:14:43 AM) boredandblogging: popey: right
(11:14:48 AM) posingaspopular: i think what the point is focusing on is boosting support and eliminating the backlog
(11:15:30 AM) posingaspopular: for those LoCo sitess that are being run through Canonical
(11:15:34 AM) popey: there is indeed some bad words said about the provision of service by the canonical system admins - personally I don't see this issue, but have seen mention of it on irc and on the loco teams mailing lists
(11:15:53 AM) somerville32: popey, Simply take a look at the backlog on the request tracker
(11:16:28 AM) popey: sure, I understand, I meant, I have had no issues personally and I have hosting with canonical
(11:16:39 AM) popey: my bad wording
(11:16:56 AM) somerville32: Generally I've not had any problems until lately
(11:17:28 AM) somerville32: But I know my requests regarding the Xubuntu website (made a number of weeks ago) and the ubuntu-ca website have gone unanswered
(11:17:30 AM) popey: however I find it helps to be patient and ask the right people nicely, but I have noted some peoples patience has run thin
(11:17:48 AM) sabdfl: this team is overloaded, we have a similar backlog within canonical
(11:18:00 AM) TechnoViking: would it be possible to find a small group of trusted people in the community to admin this server, to take the load off of the Canonical admins?
(11:18:04 AM) sabdfl: what are the services offered? is it:
(11:18:07 AM) sabdfl:  - shell accounts
(11:18:09 AM) sabdfl:  - websites
(11:18:11 AM) sabdfl:  - ?
(11:18:15 AM) sabdfl: mailing lists?
(11:18:19 AM) jsgotangco: probably mailing lists
(11:18:19 AM) popey: pre-selected apps such as drupal
(11:18:20 AM) somerville32: sabdfl, https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/loco-contacts/2007-August/001510.html
(11:18:22 AM) doctormo: database? scripting?
(11:18:23 AM) effie_jayx: planets
(11:18:35 AM) popey: shell accounts are less abundant
(11:18:41 AM) sabdfl: somerville32: doesn't say what is actually offered, and if there is any promise of a particular SLA
(11:18:42 AM) popey: and less required for many people
(11:18:57 AM) smurf: Still, even if the team doesn't have "free" time, four months is a bit much
(11:19:06 AM) dholbach: jsgotangco: mailing lists are hopefully going to be dealt with in a more fluent fashion once the Loco Council is up and running
(11:19:07 AM) sabdfl: ideally, we should use LP to enforce access, via openid and ssh, and team membership
(11:19:13 AM) jsgotangco: my opinion is that community driven sites should be managed by community - the problem though is that it didn't work as expected so it resulted to compromised servers
(11:19:18 AM) sabdfl: mailing lists will also shortly be in LP
(11:19:28 AM) doctormo: sabdfl: that's good to hear
(11:19:48 AM) somerville32: sabdfl, James describes what Canonical is offering to loco teams: ~"shell accounts, no root access, pre-selected list of apps, no CGIs"
(11:20:14 AM) sabdfl: jsgotangco: +1, the choice in that mail was clear: do it yourself at your own risk and cost, or use the service canonical provides, which will come with some constraints
(11:20:19 AM) sabdfl: somerville32: there's no SLA there
(11:20:32 AM) sabdfl: though "full sysadmin support" does sound attractive ;-)
(11:20:46 AM) sabdfl: but i happen to know that team is very stretched, and has a backlog internally too
(11:20:56 AM) doctormo: There is a problem though, my LoCo mailing list I want lots of users to join and recieve updates, but launchpad needs to keep a list of more commited people. currently we try and keep launchpad members to those.
(11:21:02 AM) popey: I suspect part of the problem comes from having previously had a good turnaround when the services were provided outside canonical, and the transition to canonical supported has led to a degredation in service?
(11:21:06 AM) sabdfl: so i'm not inclined to feel they are letting the community down
(11:21:29 AM) sabdfl: doctormo: use different teams, and subteams if you want folks to be able to just be a member in one place
(11:21:48 AM) sabdfl: popey: degradation == thus-far-unhacked?
(11:22:02 AM) doctormo: duly noted, good idea
(11:22:04 AM) popey: point taken
(11:22:39 AM) sabdfl: i will ask james (elmo) if there are obvious things we could do to delegate some activities
(11:22:44 AM) sabdfl: like getting mailing lists in LP
(11:22:54 AM) sabdfl: i'd like to know what the majority of the RT tickets look like
(11:22:58 AM) sabdfl: but i don't have a login in that RT
(11:23:01 AM) somerville32: sabdfl, ubuntu : ubuntu
(11:23:05 AM) sabdfl: that should be in LP answer-tracker, IMO
(11:23:14 AM) popey: there are tickets in there too
(11:23:19 AM) popey: (lp)
(11:23:27 AM) effie_jayx: it got moved from launchpad...
(11:23:33 AM) effie_jayx: to rt I remember
(11:23:50 AM) boredandblogging: yeah, tickets should not be made in LP anymore
(11:23:56 AM) dholbach: to me it looks like the advent of the Loco Council and mailing lists on LP will resolve a good deal of those issues
(11:24:11 AM) jsgotangco: i agree
(11:24:12 AM) dholbach: in the meantime it might make sense to try to find out what could be delegated
(11:24:13 AM) popey: sabdfl: degredation == lack of communication and no visible delivery of service for _some_ people, would be more accurate
(11:25:11 AM) ***popey suspects that the proposed loco council could perhaps offload at least _some_ of the workload from system admins at canonical
(11:25:17 AM) somerville32: To handle the tickets regarding user accounts, why not utilize the launchpad and the already available lpusers script created by the MOTU team?
(11:25:21 AM) popey: clearly not dishing out ssh logons, but _something_?
(11:26:14 AM) sabdfl: ok, i will ask james for an update
(11:26:15 AM) somerville32: It would result in: a) Management of shell accounts via launchpad group membership b) Mail notification of deletion/addition of accounts to admins c) Point of contact
(11:26:16 AM) popey: adding a layer between locos and the system admins might allow us to reduce the number of tickets in their queue
(11:26:53 AM) dholbach: shall we move on to the Membership Approval Boards?
(11:26:58 AM) sabdfl: are there folks in the loco council who can at least delete, amend and prioritise tickets?
(11:27:11 AM) popey: loco council doesn't exist yet does it?
(11:27:15 AM) posingaspopular: no
(11:27:19 AM) popey: hence "proposed" :)
(11:27:27 AM) juliux: i think there is no loco council yet
(11:27:34 AM) jono: wrapping up my call...
(11:27:35 AM) ***popey pokes jono 
(11:27:36 AM) dholbach: yes, it's on the agenda for today
(11:27:51 AM) jono: back#
(11:27:58 AM) sabdfl: i think any members of loco / irc / forums / kubuntu etc councils should be able to amend / prioritise tickets
(11:27:59 AM) jono: sorry about that
(11:28:01 AM) juliux: dholbach, loco council is there since september nobody remove it from the agenda;)
(11:28:01 AM) sabdfl: i'll ask for that
(11:28:13 AM) jono: one of the primary aims of the loco council is to delegate resource decisions
(11:28:35 AM) dholbach: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoTeams/LoCoCouncil
(11:28:38 AM) jono: before my calls this afternoon I was working on a recommended list of members for the council
(11:28:50 AM) sabdfl: ok
(11:29:04 AM) jono: so I hope to have the recommendation ready in the next week or so
(11:29:24 AM) juliux: great
(11:30:13 AM) jono: the loco council can also deal with conflict
(11:30:16 AM) jono: like other team councils
(11:30:27 AM) jono: I think it will help scale the growing loco community
(11:30:29 AM) sabdfl:   - The nominees support from at least one active LoCo Team Council member (essential).
(11:30:39 AM) sabdfl: doesn't seem to allow for the wholesale firing of a team council
(11:31:02 AM) jono: what do you mean sabdfl?
(11:31:25 AM) sabdfl: of course we want new members of the team council to fit into the existing council
(11:31:32 AM) sabdfl: but
(11:31:42 AM) sabdfl: to have that as a blocking condition is weird
(11:32:02 AM) sabdfl: we may need to appoint someone to a team council that isn't popular with the existing crew
(11:32:11 AM) sabdfl: and this sort of bullet makes that difficult
(11:32:22 AM) popey: should it not be "at least one active community council member"?
(11:32:22 AM) sabdfl: was that cargo-culted from an existing team council charter?
(11:32:41 AM) jono: do you have an example of appointing an unpopular council member, sabdfl?
(11:32:43 AM) sabdfl: hard for the CC to appoint someone nobody supports
(11:32:56 AM) sabdfl: no, but i also don't have a use case for requiring a team to be self-selecting
(11:32:57 AM) jono: right
(11:33:04 AM) sabdfl: i would just remove that bullet
(11:33:31 AM) sabdfl: nice that this neatly addresses the RT prioritisation issue too
(11:33:39 AM) sabdfl: with that bullet removed, +1 from me
(11:33:51 AM) jono: sabdfl: I am happy with that
(11:33:56 AM) jono: (not that I am on the CC) :P
(11:34:07 AM) sabdfl: thoughts, opinions?
(11:34:11 AM) dholbach: I'm happy with the proposal: +1 from me
(11:34:17 AM) Burgundavia: +1 from me as well
(11:34:20 AM) dholbach: it's going to make a big change
(11:34:25 AM) TechnoViking: +1 here
(11:34:26 AM) dholbach: oh hey Burgundavia :)
(11:34:29 AM) jsgotangco: i concur with the bullet removal too
(11:34:38 AM) ***somerville32 nods.
(11:34:50 AM) dholbach: nice, another decision made :)
(11:35:09 AM) dholbach: let's move on to the Membership Approval Boards: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StreamlineMembershipApproval
(11:35:27 AM) jono: dholbach: :)
(11:35:28 AM) jsgotangco: well its the first CC meeting for the new year, we have to start good heh
(11:35:36 AM) dholbach: I had a conversation with jono about it today and we found a few points we could discuss now
(11:35:46 AM) dholbach: "Outstanding Issues" at the end of that wiki page
(11:36:06 AM) jono: yeah, the points raised were some initial concerns I had
(11:37:37 AM) dholbach: I believe we agreed on the general spec before, but 1) amount of meetings, 2) possible bottleneck in the CC<->Board reporting and 3) amount of people on the board might be problematic
(11:37:40 AM) jsgotangco: bi-weekly would be good as that is our aim in CC
(11:37:44 AM) posingaspopular: the point about weekly meetings... bi weekly might work best
(11:38:02 AM) dholbach: jsgotangco: New Year's resolution? :-)
(11:38:15 AM) sabdfl: two questions
(11:38:28 AM) sabdfl: the Governance Review section of the document is a little misplaced
(11:38:53 AM) jono: sabdfl: ahhh yes, that is something I felt was not required
(11:38:56 AM) sabdfl: it's here because we said "jeez, if we delegate the membership approvals, we will have time to delve into the substantive portions of the project, and this is what we should do with that time"
(11:39:11 AM) chuckf: sorry for my late arrival
(11:39:15 AM) sabdfl: it's sort of a statement of what folks should expect from the CC once this delegation is rocking
(11:39:41 AM) sabdfl: it's nice for an announcement that goes with the setup of the membership approval process
(11:39:51 AM) jono: to me the review part should be part of a wider effort, and is not specific to any specific council
(11:39:58 AM) sabdfl: yes
(11:39:58 AM) dholbach: I believe the original intention of it was to make sure we have no disconnect between the CC and those Boards - in that case I believe a public and regular reporting plus a escalation process to the CC might work better
(11:40:12 AM) jono: exactly
(11:40:27 AM) sabdfl: we should get folks (lead by Dennis and Daniel and Jono) to propose "things the CC needs to talk about" on a pretty systematic basis
(11:40:27 AM) jono: team reporting should resolve part of this concern - reporting in my mind should be a council requirement
(11:40:38 AM) jono: sabdfl: indeed
(11:40:40 AM) juliux: did we realy need an other council to approve members? i think we have a lot of councils allready
(11:40:41 AM) sabdfl: the conversations should be more interesting, make for more interesting coverage in UWN and elsewhere
(11:40:53 AM) sabdfl: could be external things too, like how we are doing w.r.t. Debian, and upstreams
(11:40:56 AM) sabdfl: like kernel etc
(11:40:58 AM) sabdfl: interesting stuff
(11:41:09 AM) jono: I agreew
(11:41:17 AM) sabdfl: juliux: we need a more efficient process, w.r.t. time zones
(11:41:29 AM) jono: I think this would be useful as part of the general team council structure - councils raise "hot button" issues with the CC
(11:41:35 AM) sabdfl: i would actually expect more memberships to be attained via specific project teams like kubuntu and edubuntu
(11:41:53 AM) sabdfl: perhaps we don't express that pathway enough in the docs
(11:42:11 AM) jono: I think approvals via team councils make sense, but it makes sense to have generalist membership councils like this
(11:42:16 AM) sabdfl: "you can become a member by becoming a member of any of these teams: MOTU, IRC Council, Forums Moderators etc"
(11:42:22 AM) sabdfl: jono: +1 too
(11:42:28 AM) jono: the key thing is in ensuring that the membership process is clear so any council can effectively judge
(11:42:32 AM) sabdfl: second question i had was about quorum
(11:42:42 AM) sabdfl: i am a little nervous about back-room approvals of buddies
(11:43:02 AM) sabdfl: i.e. 3 guys on the regional approval team just agree to +1 someone
(11:43:15 AM) jsgotangco: that's a valid concern
(11:43:20 AM) jono: this is a potential risk with any council
(11:43:27 AM) jono: although geographic placement does increase the risk
(11:43:48 AM) jono: same loco teams, conferences etc mean people get to meet physically and develop alliances
(11:43:50 AM) sabdfl: would be better if there was a requirement that each +1 be at least raised in a regular meeting
(11:44:07 AM) PriceChild: sabdfl, about that "you can become a member..." sentence - perhaps changing that to the council rather than being part of the team they govern.
(11:44:16 AM) PriceChild: *applying to the council
(11:44:26 AM) jono: oh hang on, sabdfl, do you mean that people may just approve people offline?
(11:44:34 AM) sabdfl: in other words, if someone cannot attend a regular meeting, they can get 3 folks to say "cool i am +1" but that still needs to be raised in aregular meeting, the three folks need to say +1, and IF someone else raises a question, they can resolve it between them then
(11:44:53 AM) jono: I would suggest its a requirement that all approvals are done in meetings
(11:45:02 AM) dholbach: we could require approval boards to send full reports (with logs, etc) to the CC or make them publically available and there's a period where the CC can object to any of those
(11:45:14 AM) ScottK: How about a team mailing list as an alternative?
(11:45:43 AM) sabdfl: jono: for now, at least, there should be many meetings per week at many different times, MUCH harder to imagine someone can't make *any* meeting
(11:45:44 AM) ScottK: We did that once for a Kubuntu member who couldn't make it to the meeting and it worked well and was very transparent.
(11:45:50 AM) sabdfl: cool
(11:45:51 AM) popey: dholbach: it's a bit nasty to have someone approved then rejected
(11:45:55 AM) jono: in my mind the major benefit of our governance is that members are judged before a panel, and people can raise objections if required
(11:46:04 AM) sabdfl: popey: it would not be approved till it's approved
(11:46:12 AM) popey: well yes, double approval
(11:46:18 AM) ScottK: With a suitable comment period, a ML supports that.
(11:46:20 AM) sabdfl: the folks could say "i will +1 you, other folks may want to discuss it with you or chat to you in person"
(11:46:21 AM) jono: sabdfl: I would also suggest that attending your approval meeting is a requirement for approval :P
(11:46:24 AM) popey: multi-level approval rather
(11:46:47 AM) jsgotangco: +1 to jono
(11:46:48 AM) kjcole: totally off the wall, but... with webapps does everything have to be done in real-time?  (I mean stockholders can mail in their votes when they cannot attend meetings...)
(11:46:56 AM) sabdfl: popey: no, CC would not review these before addition in LP, only review summaries
(11:46:57 AM) dholbach: popey: it's what we have for becoming ubuntu-core-dev right now: a recommendation by the MOTU Council, then a discussion with the Technical Board
(11:46:57 AM) chuckf: jono the problem is time zones and work schedules much as the problem with me is currently
(11:47:02 AM) popey: ok
(11:47:05 AM) sabdfl: actually initially, they will require that CC add them
(11:47:09 AM) jono: chuckf: this is why we are doing this - regional timezones
(11:47:12 AM) popey: makes more sense
(11:47:26 AM) sabdfl: ok, so:
(11:47:28 AM) jsgotangco: there is a reason why we are doing it geographically
(11:47:31 AM) jono: and I would still recommend varied timeslots - so if in the US there is a meeting in the morning, the next in eve etc - then it makes it simple
(11:47:33 AM) sabdfl:  - you are required to attend your approval
(11:47:33 AM) PriceChild: popey, I don't like the idea of someone being deferred by the cc, then going through someone else without either knowing which isn't as mad as it sounds
(11:47:42 AM) sabdfl:  - it must happen at a scheduled time
(11:47:44 AM) dholbach: The proposal planned to have 6 months of supervisory mode anyway.
(11:47:57 AM) sabdfl: PriceChild: we would pick that up, i think
(11:48:07 AM) sabdfl: +1 from me with those clarifications
(11:48:13 AM) jono: sabdfl: spot on
(11:48:35 AM) jono: are we happy with 10 council members?
(11:48:39 AM) jono: I thought was a quite a lot
(11:48:54 AM) popey: thats quite a pool
(11:49:00 AM) juliux: it should be an odd number
(11:49:01 AM) dholbach: I agree - it's harder to have a quorum
(11:49:10 AM) chuckf: I'd like an odd number to break deadlocks
(11:49:11 AM) popey: dholbach: depends what you set the quorum at
(11:49:22 AM) jono: it worries me we can maintain the quality with such a high number of members required
(11:49:23 AM) JanC: quorum doesn't have to be 50% ?
(11:49:23 AM) dholbach: popey: right
(11:49:35 AM) juliux: so you can't have a dead lock
(11:50:10 AM) popey: make it 7, and 50% quorum, get matt revell to be the half a person ;)
(11:50:22 AM) dholbach: poor mrevell
(11:50:22 AM) no0tic: how would members be appointed?
(11:50:39 AM) sabdfl: the meetings will have variable numbers
(11:50:53 AM) jono: popey: heh, he is sat opposite me...on a high chair :)
(11:50:54 AM) jsgotangco: a quorum should consist of members in neighboring timezones as to fulfill the geographical separation of the council
(11:50:55 AM) sabdfl: i think anyone of the regional council at a meeting can veto a person
(11:50:59 AM) sabdfl: it's got to be consensual
(11:51:06 AM) johnc4510-laptop: would there be a problem with having one CC member sit in on loco team council meeting for oversight
(11:51:10 AM) sabdfl: quorum just means "minimum +1's"
(11:51:37 AM) sabdfl: johnc4510-laptop: don't want to require that, we will review and approve before they are added to the teams, at least initially
(11:51:45 AM) johnc4510-laptop: kk
(11:51:45 AM) jono: sabdfl: like I say, my only concern was finding 10 good quality council members for a region
(11:51:56 AM) jono: I would prefer few members that we have complete confidence in
(11:51:59 AM) popey: 10 per region, not 10 total?
(11:52:13 AM) sabdfl: jono: let's say "at least 7" ?
(11:52:25 AM) jono: sabdfl: sounds good to me
(11:52:30 AM) sabdfl: or just take that out, state the minimum, and get going
(11:52:42 AM) dholbach: ok, great - it'll be great to have these in place
(11:52:54 AM) jono: good stuff
(11:53:04 AM) jono: so are the CC happy with the changes we have discussed?
(11:53:04 AM) sabdfl: alrighty, i have 7 minutes left
(11:53:07 AM) sabdfl: +1
(11:53:12 AM) dholbach: +1 from me too
(11:53:17 AM) TechnoViking: +1 for me
(11:53:20 AM) jsgotangco: +1 from mee as well
(11:53:29 AM) jono: :)
(11:53:43 AM) dholbach: rock and roll
(11:53:47 AM) sabdfl: SUPER!
(11:53:53 AM) sabdfl: folks, do you realise what this means?
(11:54:04 AM) sabdfl: short, fun, contentious CC meetings :-D
(11:54:13 AM) dholbach: :-)
(11:54:17 AM) posingaspopular: it means sabdfl can ride around his rocke instead of CC meetings
(11:54:21 AM) sabdfl: for example, we've just done 4 items that are of the caliber we *should* be tackling, in 1 hour
(11:54:28 AM) jono: sabdfl: bring it on :)
(11:54:31 AM) popey: \o/
(11:54:35 AM) sabdfl: this rocks!
(11:54:37 AM) Burgundavia: yay
(11:54:41 AM) sabdfl: on that note, i must prep for another call
(11:54:42 AM) sabdfl: :-(
(11:54:48 AM) jono: sabdfl: later skater :)
(11:54:57 AM) jsgotangco: heh
(11:54:58 AM) sabdfl: thanks dholbach, jono for steering us forward on those delegations
(11:55:02 AM) sabdfl left the room.
(11:55:04 AM) jsgotangco: catch you later
(11:55:24 AM) chuckf: I thought this was the community council meeting
(11:55:30 AM) popey: chuckf: it is
(11:55:36 AM) mrevell: popey: I'll get you one of these days.
(11:55:40 AM) popey: hehe
(11:55:42 AM) chuckf: what about team approval?
(11:56:04 AM) jsgotangco: we're not done yet
(11:56:07 AM) chuckf: ah
(11:56:09 AM) chuckf: sorry
(11:56:29 AM) jono: chuckf: too much gatorade?
(11:56:32 AM) chuckf: I'm getting pulled into another meeting in a minute or two
(11:56:51 AM) jsgotangco: ok let's move on
(11:56:56 AM) bigon726 is now known as bigon
(11:57:02 AM) jsgotangco: team denmark
(11:57:22 AM) chuckf: can we do team maryland?
(11:57:31 AM) chuckf: or I can come back later
(11:57:44 AM) jsgotangco: are supports of Danish Team around
(11:57:55 AM) jsgotangco: if not we'll move to Maryland
(11:58:18 AM) chuckf: if it's going to be longer than 2 minutes, I gotta come back
(11:58:26 AM) juliux: gnomonic ist not here
(11:58:33 AM) jsgotangco: fine no one from the danish team
(11:58:45 AM) jsgotangco: chuckf: go nuts
(11:59:14 AM) chuckf: well we have the app page, I thought this was going to be me answering questions
(11:59:46 AM) chuckf: we're almost a year old. we've had decent progress and events
(12:00:03 PM) chuckf: we have 4 or fve things in the pipeline for promoting Ubuntu right now
(12:00:16 PM) dholbach: chuckf: what do you think is the most challenging item on your roadmap?
(12:00:20 PM) jsgotangco: there seems to be good communication going sa there are regular meetings
(12:00:28 PM) chuckf: we have a good solid core of team members that keep movving things forward
(12:00:55 PM) chuckf: dholbach the most challenging thing is convincing people that Linux is a good viable alternative
(12:01:14 PM) chuckf: and keeping people interested and not just being passive in the group
(12:01:39 PM) juliux: chuckf, how much people attend your real life meetings?
(12:02:05 PM) chuckf: we have regular meetings and are discussing expanding mettings to other areas fo the state as some travel up o 45 minutes to attends
(12:02:19 PM) chuckf: juliux about 7-10 on average
(12:02:32 PM) juliux: cool
(12:02:48 PM) chuckf: and then for events we get better turnouts
(12:03:00 PM) jsgotangco: is anyone else from team maryland here?
(12:03:07 PM) chuckf: not at the moment
(12:03:18 PM) chuckf: and I have to go to a meeting, sorry
(12:03:24 PM) chuckf: I'll be back as I can
(12:03:31 PM) JanC: or people who know their activities?
(12:03:49 PM) dholbach: ok, we'll get back to chuckf then
(12:03:50 PM) kjcole: DC here.  I can say they helped out at one of our installfests.
(12:04:18 PM) dholbach: is somebody of the Colombia team here?
(12:04:31 PM) kjcole: (JanC: A bit of cross-LoCo work.)
(12:05:19 PM) jsgotangco: dholbach: let's move to candidates
(12:05:21 PM) dholbach: ok
(12:05:39 PM) jsgotangco: i can't stay long either, i have a plane to catch in 4 hours tee hee
(12:05:51 PM) dholbach: deadwill, demrit, paulliu, forlong, ricardoperez are not around
(12:05:57 PM) dholbach: juliux: you are on the list? :)
(12:06:01 PM) juliux: dholbach, i think you can remove forlong;)
(12:06:05 PM) juliux: dholbach, yes i am;)
(12:06:15 PM) dholbach: juliux: you want to get your membership renewed?
(12:06:19 PM) juliux: yes i want;)
(12:06:29 PM) dholbach: I believe you can do this on your own in LP :)
(12:06:38 PM) jsgotangco: its self service renewal!
(12:06:45 PM) juliux: my last one expired last year november, but i don't like the renew it yourself process
(12:06:45 PM) jsgotangco: unless you would like the floor
(12:07:07 PM) jsgotangco: ahh principled!
(12:07:08 PM) dholbach: ok... I'm all +1 for it
(12:07:13 PM) juliux: jsgotangco, yes
(12:07:30 PM) juliux: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JuliusBloch that is my wikipage;)
(12:07:31 PM) jsgotangco: please feel free to give your piece now!
(12:08:29 PM) juliux left the room (quit: "Verlassend").
(12:08:48 PM) jsgotangco: eh?
(12:09:17 PM) dholbach: juliux_ is a^Wthe driving force behind the German Loco :)
(12:09:36 PM) dholbach: jsgotangco, TechnoViking, Burgundavia?
(12:09:46 PM) jsgotangco: "Treasure of the german ubuntu association"
(12:09:51 PM) juliux_: sorry disconnect
(12:09:55 PM) juliux_: what was my last lineß
(12:09:57 PM) juliux_: ?
(12:09:59 PM) juliux_: dholbach, i am one of a bigger group;)
(12:10:05 PM) juliux_: jsgotangco, yes i have the job for the next two years again;)
(12:10:22 PM) dholbach: jsgotangco: I'm sure that is supposed to mean "Treasurer" :)
(12:10:28 PM) jsgotangco: yeah
(12:10:35 PM) juliux_: ohh
(12:10:40 PM) Burgundavia: +1 from me, renewal is pretty straightforward
(12:10:40 PM) jsgotangco: but that's fine!
(12:10:44 PM) jsgotangco: a treasure is still good
(12:10:47 PM) jsgotangco: +1
(12:10:48 PM) dholbach: :-)
(12:11:06 PM) dholbach: technoviking seems to have vanished
(12:11:13 PM) juliux_: jsgotangco, thanks fixed
(12:11:17 PM) jsgotangco: i cannot stay long too
(12:11:42 PM) dholbach: that doesn't make it exactly easy
(12:11:42 PM) juliux_ is now known as juliux
(12:11:45 PM) tritium: If I may suggest, gcleric has a few supporters here.  May he state his case?
(12:11:49 PM) kjcole left the room ("Konversation terminated!").
(12:12:16 PM) jsgotangco: who else is up for membership
(12:12:17 PM) tritium: We have taken time off work to be here for him because we feel strongly about his application.
(12:12:21 PM) posingaspopular: i am!
(12:12:26 PM) greg-g: and I
(12:12:28 PM) warp10: jsgotangco: me too!
(12:12:30 PM) johnc4510-laptop: so is tyche
(12:12:30 PM) whellinga: I am too
(12:12:32 PM) posingaspopular: tritium: me too for myself ;p
(12:12:32 PM) juliux: thxs jsgotangco Burgundavia and dholbach for the +1;)
(12:12:37 PM) leoquant: me too
(12:12:56 PM) jsgotangco: dholbach: i can sit in 15 mins more but that's it
(12:13:18 PM) gcleric: we'll make is qucik....
(12:13:24 PM) dholbach: it's a bit though without quorum
(12:13:26 PM) boredandblogging: fyi, the danish team has already been approved
(12:13:27 PM) SWAT: jsgotangco, if you follow the member candidates list, you'll notice quite some people missing.
(12:13:29 PM) dholbach: it's just jsgotangco, Burgundavia and me
(12:13:40 PM) dholbach: thanks boredandblogging
(12:14:21 PM) jsgotangco: Steven Harper
(12:14:39 PM) jsgotangco: Alessio Treglia
(12:14:52 PM) no0tic: alessio treglia is not here atm
(12:14:59 PM) jsgotangco: Jussi Schultink
(12:15:06 PM) jussi01: Im here
(12:15:10 PM) jsgotangco: there
(12:15:31 PM) Seeker``: woo for jussi01!!
(12:15:35 PM) ***Pici cheers
(12:15:38 PM) jussi01: pastebomb
(12:15:41 PM) jussi01: Hi, Im Jussi Schultink, and I work with the Ubuntu Studio team, IRC and Kubuntu. My main areas of contribution are to IRC and forum support, packaging, bug reporting and fixing. I have been with the ubuntu studio team since around feb 07. I am an operator on #kubuntu and #ubuntustudio and try to contribute help wherever I can on these and other channels. I also manage the Ubuntu Studio Users and Devel mailing lists. I am a motu mentoree, (unde
(12:15:43 PM) jsgotangco: go!
(12:16:23 PM) Seeker``: That got cut off for me - I didn't see anything past "motu mentoree, (unde"
(12:16:56 PM) jussi01: (under persia's helpful guidance) and while I have had to leave some of my packaging work for the last few months things have quietened down so that I can now continue with that. My lp https://edge.launchpad.net/~jussi01 is and my wiki page is: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JussiSchultink
(12:17:13 PM) jsgotangco: hmm
(12:17:17 PM) jsgotangco: we don't have quorum now
(12:17:42 PM) jsgotangco: how is your MOTU progress?
(12:18:30 PM) dholbach: It seems you uploaded a few packages already: https://launchpad.net/~jussi01/+packages
(12:18:36 PM) jussi01: jsgotangco: unfortunately persia is not here, but its been a little slow as mentioned. I have a couple of universe pckages and Im working on some more
(12:18:49 PM) jsgotangco: its still a good start
(12:18:50 PM) _MMA_: Id like to give a big +1 to Jussi's work on Ubuntu Studio. He has been a great help to the team and has been great at support on IRC and Ubuntu Forums.
(12:19:30 PM) jussi01: Im also working with persia and learning the other facets of MOTU'ing but as mentioned schedules have prevented a lot of that till now
(12:20:11 PM) jsgotangco: I'm pretty happy with the progress
(12:20:13 PM) jpatrick: I'd like give jussi01 another big +1 for his Kubuntu op work
(12:20:19 PM) jsgotangco: +1 for me
(12:20:23 PM) posingaspopular: jussi01 is always in #kubuntu and helping out. he answers all the questions before me. i think Jucato will agree
(12:20:24 PM) dholbach: I'm happy to give a +1, but as we don't have a quorum, we could do the rest of this approval by email.
(12:20:26 PM) jsgotangco: but unfortunately we don't have quorum
(12:20:37 PM) Burgundavia: +1 for me, but yes
(12:20:46 PM) jsgotangco: so I'm sorry to say we'll hvae to end this meeting with jussi01
(12:20:59 PM) posingaspopular left the room ("Konversation terminated!").
(12:21:10 PM) Jucato: I agree (about jussi01 :D)
(12:21:31 PM) ardchoille: +1 from me for jussi01
(12:21:33 PM) dholbach: jussi01: can you mail this email conversation to the community council mailing list with the request for approval?
(12:21:34 PM) tritium: jsgotangco: when will the remaining applicants be re-scheduled?
(12:21:35 PM) SWAT: jsgotangco, can I at least support whellinga and leoquant? (for the record)
(12:21:42 PM) bbartek: I came here to support leoquant for his great work on the dutch forum (he's a moderator of this forum and biggest spammer 7.756 posts) and wiki documentation +1
(12:21:48 PM) ***tritium will take more vacation from work to support gcleric 
(12:21:49 PM) jussi01: dholbach: of course
(12:22:01 PM) Seeker``: there should be a member-approval only meeting
(12:22:05 PM) dholbach: tritium: sorry for that :-/
(12:22:13 PM) dholbach: Seeker``: that's why we discussed the membership approval boards today
(12:22:14 PM) tritium: dholbach: no worries
(12:22:16 PM) jsgotangco: tritium: we have one scheduled in 2 weeks but to be annoucned yet
(12:22:20 PM) dholbach: that's going to make it all a lot easier
(12:22:23 PM) nxvl_work: does the Mobile team meeting already started?
(12:22:27 PM) Munchkinguy: When is art meeting?
(12:22:34 PM) dholbach: nxvl_work: I believe they are in #ubuntu-mobile
(12:22:37 PM) dholbach: @now
(12:22:37 PM) ubotu: Current time in Etc/UTC: January 10 2008, 17:22:41 - Current meeting: Community Council
(12:22:40 PM) PriceChild: nxvl, /topic
(12:22:47 PM) jsgotangco: ok i gotta go
(12:22:50 PM) dholbach: ok... meeting adjourned
(12:22:51 PM) jsgotangco: thanks
(12:22:52 PM) dholbach: thanks everybody