{{{ 03:01 raphink hello everybody :) 03:01 Kyral I'm here 03:02 kiko hey there === kjcole is Kevin Cole 03:02 LaserJock here 03:02 raphink Seveas: hehe i'm here :) 03:02 Seveas mhz, smurf 03:02 Seveas *ping* too === smurf is here ;-) === mhz is here 03:02 Seveas We'll have to wait for the CC members to show up 03:03 mhz in the meantime, Greeting Ubunteros :) 03:03 kiko greetings 03:03 Seveas hi 03:03 MarioMeyer_ hi :P 03:03 Madpilot morning, everyone === Kamion reaches for the list of phone number 03:03 Kamion s 03:03 robotgeek morning...coffee time 03:04 StevenK Speaking of morning, it's neatly 1am here. :-/ 03:04 Seveas Kamion, aren't they on speed dial yet? :) 03:04 mhz StevenK: thx for being here, then 03:04 ogra Kamion, sabdfl just mailed me, he seems awake and in reach of a PC 03:04 Madpilot 0600 here :( 03:04 kjcole No rest for the wicked. === Kyral reaches for caffine 03:04 LaserJock Madpilot: me too 03:04 ogra but i bet he forgot about the early time today 03:04 MagicFab I invited Corey Burger and Daniel RObitaille but it's 6AM for them :( 03:04 mhz Madpilot: very early, thx 03:04 Kamion elmo's coming 03:05 StevenK mhz: I went to bed early, and my wife woke me at 0000 03:05 mhz MagicFab: i'm glad you're here 03:05 jsgotangco hehe 03:05 kjcole New Ubunutu project: Tivo for #ubuntu-meetings. (Better than log files.) ;-) 03:05 Seveas it's conveniently 15:00 here :) 03:05 mhz StevenK: hehehe, that happens all the time if you have kids too === jsgotangco is babysitting at the moment 03:05 elmo ok, here === seb128 [n=seb128@ubuntu/member/seb128] has joined #ubuntu-meeting 03:05 Seveas hi elmo 03:06 \sh morning gentlemen 03:06 Kamion elmo: do you know where Mark is at the moment? 03:06 raphink hi \sh 03:06 mhz morning \sh 03:06 elmo somewhere in the US 03:06 elmo he probably won't be up for a couple of hours 03:06 zakame hi mhz :D === mgalvin [n=mgalvin@ubuntu/member/mgalvin] has joined #ubuntu-meeting 03:07 mhz zakame: helloz 03:07 kjcole Hullo, all. 03:07 elmo unless we snagged mako, quorum might be hard 03:07 Kamion apparently he just sent e-mail, I'll try his mobile 03:07 mhz kjcole: is your page updated 03:07 zakame elmo: thanks for adding me to the keyring today :-) 03:07 zakame evening \sh :) 03:07 Kamion sabdfl is being summoned 03:08 Seveas hehe === jbailey [n=jbailey@modemcable139.249-203-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #ubuntu-meeting 03:08 Seveas hi jbailey 03:08 kjcole mhz: Not recently... 03:08 mhz kjcole: well, it looked good to me :) 03:08 jbailey Seveas: hi 03:09 jsgotangco summoning powers === mhz plays Magic, the Gathering, and plays 9 lands to summon sabdfl 03:10 Kyral hehe 03:10 zakame mhz: wow 03:11 dholbach mhz: dunno, if 9 are enough, you might have to tap all your artifacts too 03:11 mhz lol! 03:11 Kyral dangit dholbach beat me to it :D === StevenK ponders something to eat. === Seveas casts a fireball and burns all Magic cards === zakame hasn't played Magic for a looong time :( 03:11 Kamion s/summoned/hunted/ apparently 03:11 mhz Seveas: boooh, you killed out entertainment === Madpilot ponders caffeine 03:11 mhz :) 03:11 jsgotangco good luck on summoning sabdfl in th snow 03:11 jsgotangco heh === dholbach neither... like 7-8 years === Kyral plays a Moment's Peace and blocks the fireball 03:11 Kamion can we sort out meeting times in the meantime maybe? 03:11 Seveas mhz, bofh.ntk.net 03:12 Seveas hours of entertainment 03:12 Kamion although we don't have mako which makes that awkward 03:12 kjcole jsgotangco: Did he get caught in it? 03:12 Seveas http://bofh.ntk.net/Bastard.html <-- that one i mean 03:12 mako i'm here 03:12 mhz Seveas: jsgotangco could tell us about mobile entretainment for our Sharp Zaurus, maybe? 03:12 Seveas greetings, mako 03:13 jsgotangco mako!!!! 03:13 Kamion mako: aha, we can start then 03:13 Seveas we could start now if sabdfl is evasive, let's do the naming round === mhz *sighs* === Seveas is Dennis Kaarsemaker 03:13 mako sorry i'm a bit late.. i need like 1 minute to get organized 03:13 zakame hello mako :) === ogra is OliverGrawert 03:13 kjcole Hi, mako. (And thanks -- I think -- for the speedy order on the CD's. Or thank whoever's responsible.) === MarioMeyer_ is Mario Meyer === dholbach is Daniel Holbach === \sh is Stephan Hermann === nalioth is Marek Spruell 03:13 kiko mako! === Kamion is Colin Watson === kjcole is Kevin Cole === StevenK is Steve Kowalik === Kyral is Chris Peterman === jsgotangco is JeromeGotangco === mhz is MauricioHernandez === mako is benjamin mako hill === Madpilot is Brian Burger === LaserJock is Jordan Mantha === kiko is ChristianReis === alerios [n=alerios@63.245.87.62] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === zakame is Zak Elep === bhuvan is Bhuvaneswaran === azeem is Michael Banck === raphink is Raphal Pinson === robotgeek is VenkatRaghavan 03:14 Seveas arzajac, there? === hno73 is Henrik Omma 03:14 Seveas ubuntugeek, there? === MagicFab is Fabian Rodriguez 03:14 Kamion sabdfl's on his way 03:15 zyga (everyone needs to say their name?) 03:15 Kamion the ubuntite/ubuntero thing is first on the agenda === smurf is Matthias Urlichs so to alleviate confusion from those bug reports, Ubuntite/Ubuntero simply means that you've signed the code of 03:16 Kamion conduct, and conceptually it should be a prerequisite for membership/maintainership (although I'm not sure if Launchpad actually implements that) 03:16 jsgotangco it does 03:16 Kamion I'm also not sure that it really matters that much what it's called, or why the CC needs to decide on it :-) 03:16 elmo Kamion: it doesn't 03:17 Seveas ok, but which one is the official word for person-who-signed-the-coc-and-pledged-allegiance-to-ubuntu :) 03:17 Kamion kiko: I assumed sabdfl had renamed it to Ubuntero, which would kind of make it official 03:17 Kamion did somebody explicitly ask for it to be brought up here? 03:17 Seveas yes, kiko 03:17 mako it was originally ubuntite 03:17 elmo Kamion: implement it as a prerequisite for membership, I mean. the only thing signed_CoC enforces is ubuntu.com email 03:17 Kamion Seveas: I'm asking kiko if somebody asked him 03:17 kiko well 03:17 kiko yes 03:17 kiko it's been asked on a number of occasions 03:17 mako that is what was written in the process documents 03:17 kiko we need to change the wording in Launchpad 03:17 Seveas Kamion, ah, sorry /me grabs glasses 03:18 kiko I just want to make sure that this is the definitive answer 03:18 mako but if sabdfl has very strong feelings, that's fine 03:18 Kamion it was changed from Ubuntite to Ubuntero in Launchpad === mako nods 03:18 mako i saw that 03:18 mako i was a little a confused.. 03:18 kiko (I personally think Ubuntu member is a better name but ignore my opinions :-P) 03:18 kiko now 03:18 kiko there are places that still say Ubuntite 03:18 Seveas kiko, Ubuntero != member 03:18 ogra its pre-membership 03:18 kiko the reason this happened is because it was hacked in by a certain person 03:18 Kamion why not just stick a tooltip/link on it explaining what it means? even I think the wording is confusing 03:18 kiko okay 03:18 kiko we will 03:18 kiko however 03:19 Kamion but that's a launchpad development issue 03:19 kiko I want someone to: 03:19 kiko a) be a point of contact that will formally email launchpad@lists.canonical.com to request this sort of policy change 03:19 kiko b) make sure that email gets sent to us when a decision like that is made, even if it's not entirely the CC's fault 03:19 kiko we all know how mark is with email and requests 03:19 Kamion in this case it wasn't at all the CC's fault, but OK :-) 03:20 kiko and I want to make sure we don't drop the ball so often 03:20 mako kiko: mark made this change right? 03:20 kiko the fact that is says ubuntite and ubuntero in places makes me want to DIE === kiko turns his back to mako and whistles 03:20 Kamion we're kind of at the point where we need a CC mailing list 03:20 Kamion (i.e. the four of us) 03:20 ogra kiko, we really dont wnat that you want to die 03:20 kiko that is all on that topic from me :) 03:21 elmo kiko: dude, this change was made directly in launchpad with no consultation with the CC - what exactly do you expect from us here? 03:21 kiko well 03:21 kiko I'll put it this way 03:21 mako kiko: it was *always* ubuntite and not particularly controversial AFAIK.. 03:21 elmo kiko: we've got about as much chance of fixing this as you have of demanding sabdfl always add tests when he commits 03:21 mako kiko: now, the alternative is not particularly controversial either 03:21 ogra mako, until sabdfl changed it :) 03:21 mako it's just a name and i, for one, am not going to fight anyone over it === sabdfl [n=mark@ubuntu/member/pdpc.silver.sabdfl] has joined #ubuntu-meeting 03:21 ogra there he is 03:21 sabdfl morning all 03:21 Seveas there's the guilty one! 03:22 kiko lol. well, people here seem to know something about the word "ubuntero", while the first time I saw this was in a launchpad landing. :) 03:22 sabdfl sorry to be late, didn't hear about it till breakfast 03:22 Kamion Definitive name for Ubuntero: [WWW] https://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/5317 (ChristianReis) 03:22 Kamion sabdfl: ^-- point on agenda 03:22 jsgotangco hehe === kiko looks at sabdfl 03:22 Kamion kiko: we only know it because (a) it randomly came up in random people's blogs like a year and a half ago, (b) we all saw it in launchpad 03:22 Kamion 14:19 < kiko> I want someone to: 03:22 Kamion 14:19 < kiko> a) be a point of contact that will formally email launchpad@lists.canonical.com to request this sort of policy change 03:22 Kamion 14:19 < kiko> b) make sure that email gets sent to us when a decision like that is made, even if it's not entirely the CC's fault 03:23 mako sabdfl: it was originally ubuntite.. LP code seems to now call it ubuntero in some but not all places 03:23 kiko this is a bit confusing to me but okay. I thought the CC would deliberate on this sort of naming changes. 03:23 Kamion sabdfl: is that something the CC can/should do? obviously we can hardly stop you from making changes in launchpad :-) 03:23 Seveas Kamion, duct tape? 03:23 mako i don't think anyone is going to fight over the name 03:23 mako i'm not at least 03:23 sabdfl ok 03:23 kiko I'm not either 03:23 MagicFab Kamion: articfacts ? 03:23 kjcole I think folks who are not very far along in the process should be known as Ubunturists (Ubunt-tourists). 03:24 mako but would like consistency :) 03:24 sabdfl consistency is good :-) 03:24 zyga heh 03:24 zakame hi sabdfl :D 03:24 sabdfl i changed it in the places i knew it existed, it's a bug as ubuntite anywhere 03:24 zyga Ubuntu*ists could be exploited to many different and ackward names 03:24 sabdfl though, someone did point out there is a gender issue in some languages 03:24 Seveas sabdfl, ok, we will maill all occurences of ubuntite to you :) 03:25 mako sabdfl: in what sense? 03:25 mako sabdfl: in "ubuntero" 03:25 sabdfl Seveas: rather file bugs on LP 03:25 elmo mako: ubuntero is male? 03:25 nalioth elmo: in latin cultures, yes 03:25 mako ubuntite seems quite neutral === mako nods 03:25 Kamion "Ubuntu" has case issues in some languages - my general opinion is "whatever" unless I'm actively sorting out translations 03:25 sabdfl i cant remember, but in some languages it's definitely one or the other 03:25 MarioMeyer_ ubuntite would sound female in portuguese 03:25 raphink yes ubuntero is definitely male 03:25 kjcole sabdfl, Oops. Not thinking multi-lingually. My mistake. 03:25 sabdfl ubuntite seems a little uptite 03:25 MagicFab Ubuntera would be female in spanish === mako likes ubuntite personally 03:26 mako bbut only because people from seattle are seattlites 03:26 sabdfl hmm... we could of course let people specify themselves === jsgotangco likes ubuntite too..its the original term i believe.... 03:26 mako sabdfl: no :) 03:26 mako sabdfl: just choose one :) 03:26 MagicFab Ubuntero/a would mean docs in spanish would have to accomodate for both (in some places) 03:26 bhuvan +1 for ubuntite === smurf likes ubuntero 03:26 Kamion sabdfl: as long as there's a link to what it means in lp so that people quit asking, I really don't care 03:27 Seveas bhuvan, we're not voting :) 03:27 sabdfl Kamion: +1 03:27 Kamion and I don't think the CC should get into the bikeshed argument of which it should be 03:27 elmo I think we shouldn't underestimate the gender-bias in ubuntero === jsgotangco feels ubuntero sounds like a mexican folk singer in costume === raphink likes ubuntero but thinks the male/female issue might be a pb 03:27 elmo there's enough problems with barriers for women in IT without us adding potential new ones 03:27 \sh sabdfl: is there no female/male/to be defined sex suffix for this in zulu? 03:27 dholbach what's wrong with using "ubuntu member" and translating "member" in different languages shouldn't be hard - it doesn't sound cool, but it "works" :) 03:27 mako i don't think gender-specific name for people who have signed the coc is a good idea 03:27 sabdfl elmo: you and your lost causes ;-) 03:27 Kamion dholbach: because it's *not* membership 03:27 kiko ubuntera/ubuntero? :-P 03:27 mako kiko: please no 03:27 raphink dholbach: ubunteros are not necessarily members yet 03:27 MagicFab UBunturist sounds great, although a bit long 03:27 sabdfl UBUNTER(A/O) 03:28 zakame jsgotangco: lol 03:28 sabdfl ubunterrorista 03:28 kiko lol 03:28 ogra eek 03:28 \sh ubunturist sounds like ubuntu terrorists 03:28 jsgotangco that's jdub === jsgotangco hides 03:28 bhuvan let it not be terrorist :) 03:28 dholbach haha 03:28 Kamion ok, this is what I mean about bikeshed arguments 03:28 Seveas Jdubuntu :) === raphink looks around if there's no CIA agent 03:28 zakame \sh: haha 03:28 mako ubuntonians 03:28 kjcole sabdfl, I think that one only applies to benevolent dictators... 03:28 zyga debianities, genotooities, fedoraxies are thankfully non-existant, I agree with dholbach's suggeston for something simple, Kamion is right too 03:28 sabdfl ok, leave it as it is, with a link to an explanation 03:28 Seveas ok 03:28 sabdfl next? 03:28 Seveas more kiko 03:28 mako sabdfl: wait.. 03:28 elmo umm 03:29 ogra as is is broken 03:29 mako the problem is that it's inconsistent 03:29 ogra we need one name 03:29 zakame yubs? 03:29 mako does leave it as it is mean "make it all ubuntero" 03:29 StevenK It's a name we have came up with. We can just declare it is gender-neutral, right? 03:29 elmo StevenK: no 03:29 sabdfl right, i was saying ubuntero is the current one, ubuntite is a bug, we can do a vote on it to settle how it should be 03:29 Seveas mako, sabdfl said: File bugs when you see Ubuntite - inconsistency can not be solved right here right now :) 03:30 mako cool 03:30 raphink StevenK: not sure, in latin cultures it feels funny to call a female with -o name 03:30 kiko well 03:30 sabdfl raphink: not even really cool females? 03:30 smurf sabdfl: I don't think so === Amaranth [n=travis@ubuntu/member/amaranth] has joined #ubuntu-meeting 03:30 elmo sabdfl: no 03:30 smurf sabdfl: Spain is not Russia ;-) === bhuvan prays no new gender issue on ubuntero in future 03:31 raphink sabdfl: let's see, females I see on linux systems like to be recognized as such even more than in other places most of the time... 03:31 \sh .oO(what is a really cool female?" 03:31 Seveas \sh, my fiancee :) 03:31 raphink \sh: lol === ogra thinks ice princess 03:31 sabdfl i have another 30 mins, guys 03:31 elmo sabdfl: dude, I've already had people complain about this to me. I'm not arguing for hypotheticals === alerios [n=alerios@63.245.87.62] has left #ubuntu-meeting ["Abandonando"] 03:31 raphink females who get to use Ubuntu deserve much ;) 03:31 \sh Seveas: but she is not from a latin country, right? ,) 03:31 raphink hehe 03:31 Seveas \sh, no 03:31 Kamion StevenK: http://www.gnome.org/~jdub/blog/projects/ubuntu/1116733725 is the origin === jjesse [n=jjesse@mail.ftpb.com] has joined #ubuntu-meeting 03:32 sabdfl ok, i don't mind reverting to ubuntite, but i think it sounds trite and uptight :-) 03:32 ogra lets move on ... 03:32 Kamion it's expressly coming from idioms in other languages 03:32 Seveas sabdfl, you should revert it anyway temporarily until we can come up with a Really Cool Name(tm) 03:32 mako seems like next up is the typo in the CoC 03:32 kjcole One could look at Esperanto rules and see if there's any kind of gender-neutral, language-neutral ending... 03:32 raphink Seveas: lol === mhz thinks 'ubunter' is just perfect 03:33 Kamion Typo in the Code of Conduct: [WWW] https://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/3952 (ChristianReis) 03:33 Kamion at least this one is definitely within the CC's purview ;-) 03:33 Seveas indeed 03:33 Seveas it means everyone will have to sign again 03:33 raphink kjcole: names in esperanto finish with -o and are neutral. Male names finish with -ulo and female with -ino. 03:33 Seveas raphink, we moved on already... 03:33 kiko okay 03:33 sabdfl those caps are a little scary 03:33 kiko so there's a typo in the CoC 03:33 mhz raphink: good point 03:33 sabdfl we don't have to re-sign 03:33 Kamion Seveas: no, there's no particular reason to require people to sign the most current version if it's just a typo cleanup 03:34 Seveas ah ok 03:34 sabdfl the system is smart enough to remember which version you signed 03:34 Kamion it would have to be a new version, yes 03:34 sabdfl and i think it has a list of currently valid versions 03:34 mako i'm reading tha tcnetance and i can't even see the error 03:34 Seveas if launchpad can handle multiple CoC's there's no problem 03:34 kiko it can 03:34 sabdfl s/it/is/ 03:34 Kamion while we're at it we should nominate somebody to do a general proofreading pass 03:34 mako ah, ok 03:34 kiko I just wanted to bring this matter to your attention 03:34 Kamion I'm happy to volunteer for that 03:34 mako sure, shhould bbe fixed 03:34 sabdfl kiko: nicely done 03:34 kiko sure 03:34 Seveas who will fix it? 03:34 mhz Kamion: would new versions include localisations? 03:34 ogra Seveas, Kamion 03:35 Kamion mhz: that's a separate issue 03:35 kiko mhz, not yet, different topic. 03:35 mhz okis 03:35 mako mhz: we haven't talked about that 03:35 Seveas .oO(Note to self: thorough proofreading of CoC for next meeting) 03:35 Kamion ogra: I can't change launchpad 03:35 MagicFab perhaps also include a reminder to people that have signed, whenever it changes 03:35 kiko Seveas, I have someone to do that, I just want a new copy of the CoC, properly proofread. 03:35 ogra Kamion, oh, misunderstood 03:35 kiko I can also produce a list of people that have signed the old one 03:35 Kamion Seveas: doesn't need to be in a meeting, I can just mail the CC a diff to make sure everyone's happy with the changes 03:35 sabdfl mhz: we definitely want to do loclaisations of the CoC, just needs LP dev time 03:35 mako kiko: well, go ahead and make that one-byte change 03:35 mako it's uncontroversial 03:35 kiko if we want to spam them to re-sign 03:35 sabdfl kiko: no need for that no 03:36 Kamion mako: I'd really like to avoid 1.0.1 1.0.2 etc. for successive one-byte changes 03:36 kiko mako, I would rather only rev the version once this time 03:36 Seveas kiko, neh, not for this change 03:36 kiko ok 03:36 MagicFab Kamion: align it with release cycles 03:36 mako Kamion: so, wait until next week 03:36 kiko I said spam for a reason :) 03:36 Kamion shall I do this and mail launchpad@ with the diff once we're done 03:36 Kamion MagicFab: no 03:36 mako it's been there for a year, we can wait two weeks :) 03:36 mako kiko: and no, i don't think people need to resign === sabdfl never noticed it before 03:36 bhuvan we can post in mailing lists 03:36 Seveas Kamion, sounds like a plan 03:36 Kamion mako: it'll take ten minutes to do ;) 03:36 mhz sabdfl: I asked because in case other people want to become members, I could ofer myself for the non-offcial version so they could at least understant what they'll face whn they sign 03:36 kiko Kamion, that would be perfect. 03:36 kjcole kiko, since you have a way of knowing who signed, is there a way to just automatically build that into some sort of announce mailing-list (broadcast only)? 03:37 sabdfl mhz: we will do proper i18n for the CoC, just need to extend the system that tracks them 03:37 kiko kjcole, not easily, but talk to me on #launchpad later about your use case and I'll see. 03:37 mako yeah, i can take a look at it again also === mhz okis 03:37 mako but people have a pretty amazing ability to see right through their own errors 03:37 Kamion ok, NEXT :-) 03:38 Amaranth mako: In more than just spelling and grammar. :) 03:38 Kamion Automatix / forums nightmare argument issue 03:38 Kamion are the relevant people actually here? 03:38 jsgotangco forums... 03:38 robotgeek I have a nice writeup here: http://robotgeek.org/cc.html 03:38 Amaranth btw, holy crap i made it to a meeting 03:38 jsgotangco haha 03:38 Seveas automatix is the piece of crap that triggers reinstalls all over 03:38 Kyral Seveas: Agreed :D 03:39 ogra thats the one that breaks your sources.list, right ? 03:39 Kamion robotgeek: thanks, please add that to the link farm on the agenda 03:39 robotgeek that link provides all relevant background, and also provides the links to conversations in #ubuntuforums 03:39 Madpilot and it's causing censorship problems in the forums... 03:39 Seveas that last line may have been a violation of the CoC, but the script is SO DAMN STUPID, I already know of dozens of people who had to reinstall after using it 03:39 nalioth automatix is just a symptom of the larger issue 03:39 Kamion (which we'll probably move to somewhere else, but anyway) 03:39 robotgeek Kamion: sorry, i came up with it two hours ago. will do right away 03:39 Kyral It adds the PLF repos for one thing... 03:39 zakame er 03:39 mako "thereby violating my rights given to me by GPL": i don't think you mean that 03:40 Kamion so I can't say I'm terribly impressed with the post-deletions issue I've seen; however we have not yet heard the administration say their piece === chmj [n=chmj@dsl-146-143-211.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-meeting 03:40 robotgeek mako: it was GPL'ed, and they did not allow me to post my changes? 03:40 Kamion and I don't particularly want us to hold a trial in absentia 03:40 ogra and they are not here it seems === raphink wonders why magic scripts like automatix or easyubuntu are not replaced by series of inter-dependent packages in multiverse 03:40 Seveas Kamion, indeed, but the forum administrators seem not to like coming to meetings 03:40 Amaranth raphink: work on that was done where it made sense 03:40 Seveas the almost always miss them 03:41 Amaranth Yeah, the forum has really seemed to distance itself. 03:41 nalioth are the ubuntuforums 'official' ? 03:41 Kyral raphink: The reason why is because the majority of what they do is pull in things like w32codecs and SunJava 03:41 Seveas nalioth, yes 03:41 Amaranth no 03:41 Amaranth err, since when? 03:41 ogra yes 03:41 Seveas since a long time already 03:41 ogra warty 03:41 raphink Kyral: well then it's not useful 03:41 mako robotgeek: it would only be a GPL issue if you let you distribute the binary but not the source 03:41 jsgotangco since we started paying part of the hosting... 03:41 Kamion nalioth: yes, and Canonical contributes to their funding 03:41 robotgeek mako: it's a bash script :) 03:41 Amaranth ah 03:41 mako robotgeek: this is a social problem, not a licensingg isssue 03:42 robotgeek mako: agreed 03:42 mako robotgeek: lets focus on the real issue 03:42 Amaranth any canonical employees have any powers on the forum? 03:42 Amaranth or any ubuntu members, even? 03:42 jsgotangco no idea 03:42 nalioth i think the forums needs a check-call, because there are major problems there. they seem to think the forums are not part of the ubuntu community as a whole 03:42 Kamion Amaranth: a number of forums folks are members 03:42 Kyral I believe UbuntuGeek is a Member 03:42 Seveas Amaranth, most of the forum staff are members 03:42 Seveas so they should (but don't) respect the code of conduct 03:42 Kamion but there are no Canonical employees in the administration to my knowledge (which is probably how it should be) 03:42 jjesse it seems every meeting lately there are issues w/ the forums 03:42 jsgotangco agreed 03:43 mako alright, the accusations are flying hard and heavy 03:43 ogra jjesse, yes, but the people never appear here 03:43 mako the forums are *huge* 03:43 Amaranth Kamion: I can see both sides of that one but I'd think having at least a mod would be a good thing. 03:43 MagicFab PLF repos and ubuntu-fr docs are very non-free friendly - post install info includes Skype, msttfonts, MP3, etc. 03:43 mako they are a massive portion of the ubuntu community 03:43 MagicFab ubuntu-fr.org , that is 03:43 jjesse ogra: if they don't appear here, then how can we deal w/ them here? 03:43 mako in terms of raw numbers, they are quite likely the largest part 03:43 ogra jjesse, thats the prob :) 03:43 mako it might makes sense that there a proportional amount of disagreements come from them 03:43 jsgotangco most of the time, the forums are a unique community by itself... 03:44 robotgeek the problem is that Ubuntuforums tends to feel that they are not a part of this community, even starting off their own wiki project 03:44 Kyral MagicFab: I had a help case in where using the PLF repos seemed to cripple someone's system so bad that he couldn't install build-essential 03:44 zakame indeed :( 03:44 Seveas ok, we are rescheduling CC meetings at the end of this one, should we just defer this for now and wait for the next meeting so the forum staff can show up? 03:44 jsgotangco robotgeek, that feeling is social 03:44 Seveas without forum staff there is not much we can do now 03:44 \sh Seveas: if they show up 03:44 Kamion I didn't realise this was coming up until I looked at the agenda two hours ago === lamont [n=lamont@mib.fc.hp.com] has joined #ubuntu-meeting 03:45 Kamion did anyone explicitly ask the forums administration to show up here at this time? 03:45 mhz robotgeek: I agree on that 03:45 robotgeek half of the stuff is going to be gone, cause they prune the threads and all 03:45 Amaranth robotgeek: So kassetra basically just moved every automatix-related post you made to the jail? 03:45 Seveas they really should stop deleting things 03:45 Madpilot Kamion: it's been posting at CCAgenda for a day or two 03:45 MagicFab Some articles in ubuntu-fr planet explain how to use .debs directly etc. - I am not opposed to that but perhaps guidelines for LoCos should extend the CoC and provide for this 03:45 Kyral the Ubuntu Forums channel is #ubuntuforums if anyone wants to know 03:45 robotgeek Amaranth: yup. 03:45 smurf IMHO removing (meta-)controversial items instead of openly discussing them simply aggravates the problem in the long run 03:45 sabdfl smurf: +1 03:45 Kamion Madpilot: yes, but I don't sit reloading that religiously 03:45 Madpilot Amaranth: one of my posts was yanked too 03:45 nalioth Amaranth: robotgeek was not the only one 'pruned' 03:45 Kamion Madpilot: and I doubt forums admins do either 03:46 Seveas Kamion, subscribe to it ;) 03:46 MagicFab Madpilot: not everyone knows to subscribe to wiki pages 03:46 Amaranth nalioth: That'd be like you and me kicking random people in #ubuntu. :P 03:46 sabdfl so, i think Kassetra has misread the GPL 03:46 kjcole smurf: Agreed. Hiding stuff doesn't make it go away. 03:46 Kamion Seveas: I just did, but still, there's a lot of noise, and it *still* doesn't address the issue that nobody has yet owned up to asking the forums admins to be here 03:46 ogra MagicFab, its one click 03:47 Seveas Kamion, I'll ask for the next meeting 03:47 Amaranth wtf 03:47 robotgeek sabdfl: i think the issue was that arnieboy was a forum staff member 03:47 Kamion Seveas: thank you 03:47 Amaranth normal users can't get into the jail? 03:47 raphink a consequence of documenting .deb installations too much is that many people come to pretend Ubuntu is hard to use because they tried to install stuff this way instead of using apt-get (or GUIs) 03:47 Seveas Amaranth, normal users can't see half of the forums 03:47 sabdfl she seems to think that it requires permission to change the code and publish a modified version 03:47 Seveas they are too closed for non-members too 03:47 MagicFab ogra: I know, among many other click in the same page. The forum admins may not be familiar with it (I wasn't). explicit invitation and "subscribe" should do it. 03:47 Amaranth Seveas: Now that I have a serious problem with. 03:47 Kyral I'll PM Kass on the Forums if anyone wants me to 03:47 Kamion one of the threads linked to from the agenda does have arnieboy apparently threatening to delete bug reports (implying doing it himself, although it wasn't explicit) 03:48 Madpilot Kamion: that's exactly what happened to several posts, including robotgeek's 03:48 sabdfl robotgeek: did the new version correctly credit arnieboy's original copyright? 03:48 robotgeek sabdfl: yes 03:48 Kamion MagicFab: no, if somebody needs to show up for some bit of arbitration, they need to be explicitly asked to show up, rather than expecting everyone who might be involved in arbitration to subscribe all the time 03:48 sabdfl Kamion: +1 03:48 robotgeek sabdfl: i just added my name at the top, everything else was intact 03:48 smurf sabdfl: I'd be inclined to treat that as a symptom for now; if the discussion would have (a) stayed open and (b) people wouldn't immediately jump on each other, minor issues like what the GPL means are self-correcting === mako nods to smurf 03:49 sabdfl smurf: well, i suspect the forums admins are super busy, and don't want to leave things out there 03:49 Amaranth (off topic: claiming automatix is the successor to "ubuntu guide" doesn't make me feel too good about it) 03:49 MagicFab Kamion: I was saying "invite them to meeting", but also "tell them to subscribe to the Agenda" as appropriate 03:49 sabdfl they have to take decisions quickly, or it would all pile up 03:49 Seveas Amaranth, you shouldn't 03:49 zakame hm I think observing the code of conduct in the forums should be emphasized :( 03:49 Seveas it's utter crap 03:49 Kyral zakame: Here Here! 03:49 Kamion MagicFab: I'm just saying I don't think the latter is an appropriate thing for us to ask them to do; most people don't live for community council meetings 03:49 jjesse Amaranth: people should be using the ubuntu guide that is included in the docs 03:49 mako Amaranth: the fact it installs lots of non-free and undistributable software doesn't exactly help 03:49 robotgeek Amaranth: it's Ubuntu Forums wiki: http://doc.gwos.org/index.php/Main_Page 03:49 nalioth Amaranth: they dont claim that, there is another site that they make that claim about 03:49 mako and (apparently) bypasses legally binding shrinkrap licenses 03:50 sabdfl the question here is did Kassetra just make a mistake (easily corrected) or was she trying to help arnieboy and ignoring the GPL in the process 03:50 Amaranth nalioth: arnieboy makes that claim in his signature 03:50 Kyral sabdfl: I have a log of an IRC "discussion" I had with the rest of the Forums community about it 03:50 jjesse the doc team has had some disagreements w/ http://doc.gwos.org/index.php/Main_Paige 03:50 mako sabdfl: i don't think it's fair to have this conversation without Kas or arniebboy 03:50 jjesse the doc team has had some disagreements w/ http://doc.gwos.org/index.php/Main_Page 03:50 Kyral I could dig it up and post it someplace 03:50 Seveas Kyral, post it for the next meeting === rejden [i=rejden@c0re.hysteria.sk] has joined #ubuntu-meeting 03:50 Kyral Seveas: Edited for content? 03:50 Seveas we cannot really do anything now 03:51 MagicFab Yeah, CoC should prevail 03:51 Seveas Kyral, verbose 03:51 crimsun I agree with mako 03:51 robotgeek sabdfl: if you look at the google cache link, she did it knowingly. in fact, i believe she crafted the license 03:51 zakame Kyral: I mean if people there simply delete posts (er even threaten deletion) that wouldn't do anyone good :( 03:51 sabdfl the hotel just called to let me know that my "ground transportation" has arrived. 03:51 smurf Hmmm. It works very well for ubuntuusers.de; the forum there is *quite* busy too. Letting the members self-police, and ping admins when necessary, basically works here. 03:51 Amaranth Kyral: Can you email that to alleykat@gmail.com ? 03:51 Seveas mako++ 03:51 sabdfl how very military 03:51 Kyral Okay: Its ugly, tempers flared 03:51 Seveas sabdfl, g'bye then 03:51 Kyral Amaranth: After class remind me :P 03:51 robotgeek sabdfl: nice talking to you 03:51 Kyral I'll remmebr but just in case 03:51 Seveas Shall we move on to the next topic? 03:51 Kyral cya sabdfl 03:51 ogra sabdfl, so dont forget your helmet ;) 03:51 Kyral or your towel! 03:51 raphink lol 03:51 Kamion Seveas: if you're happy to take responsibility for asking some set of Kassetra, arnieboy, ubuntugeek, and/or other admins to show up, that would be fantastic 03:51 kjcole sabdfl: ta-ta 03:51 jsgotangco bye sabdfl thanks for the email too 03:51 Kamion sabdfl: see you 03:52 Seveas Kamion, I will 03:52 MagicFab sabdfl: quick remonider: ColombianTeam starting, hoping to see you there 03:52 Kamion Seveas: thank you 03:52 zakame bye sabdfl :D 03:52 Kamion ok, NEXT 03:52 MagicFab sabdfl: (in Colombia, next year) 03:52 Seveas mhz, 03:52 raphink sabdfl: have a good ground transportation ;) 03:52 Kamion MauricioHernandez was approved during last meeting but he still does not appear listed as member in ?LaunchPad (it's been 2 weeks) 03:52 sabdfl mako: i still think we could easily take a view on the derivative work, and let Kas know that we think it's fine and not in violation of the CoC and therefore does not need to be in the jail 03:52 mhz Seveas: yup? 03:52 Kamion mhz isn't approved because mako didn't vote (that I saw) 03:52 Kamion mako: ? 03:52 Seveas mako, you said you would vote for mhz later and didn't do so yet, so please :) 03:52 sabdfl wait guys, i don't think we need to call the whole forums group in for every issue 03:52 mako mhz++ 03:52 mako welcome 03:52 Seveas mako, cool 03:52 Seveas mhz, welcome aboard! 03:52 jsgotangco lol === ogra applauds mhz ... 03:52 mhz mako: thx, hehehe 03:52 sabdfl the "censorship" here is just Kas enforcing what she understands 03:53 ogra finally 03:53 Kamion sabdfl: Kassetra and arnieboy, then? they seem to be the relevant pair 03:53 Seveas (who has launchpad duty today?) 03:53 Kamion Seveas: me 03:53 sabdfl and we can rule that the code is fine to be published (even if we don't like the code) 03:53 mhz ogra: finally :) === silbs [n=jane@72-255-6-161.client.stsn.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting 03:53 ogra :) 03:53 sabdfl that should be enough for robotgeek to get what he wants 03:53 zakame yay mhz ! 03:53 Seveas Next up kjcole 03:53 sabdfl and Kas to gain a better understanding of the GPL 03:53 mhz zakame: educool 03:54 kjcole OK. I assume we're talking the LoCo names and not my membership. 03:54 MagicFab bien, mhz :D 03:54 sabdfl if there is still censorship after that, then it's not accidental 03:54 Seveas kjcole, correct 03:54 Kamion sabdfl: right, needs someone who themselves has a good understanding of licensing to talk to them so that if they have other issues then there can be a useful discussion rather than "uh ..." 03:54 mhz MagicFab: thx, suerte a ti! 03:55 Amaranth Kamion: Volunteering? :) 03:55 sabdfl Kamion: they are welcome to ping any of us on IRC, if they need that clarification, but this one is simple, Kas was not correct to jail the thread on the grounds of IP 03:55 Kamion Amaranth: not especially :-/ 03:55 kjcole I've herded the US cats, as per smurf's request. The consensus seemed to be Us<><> 03:55 Kyral I think we need RMS to talk to her lol 03:55 sabdfl no need to turn it into a major issue 03:55 Amaranth Kyral: We don't want to scar her for life... 03:55 Seveas Kyral, :| 03:55 kjcole e.g. UsTxAustin or UsTxNorth. 03:55 Kyral Amaranth: lol 03:55 Kamion kjcole: domain names aren't wiki-style ... 03:55 raphink Kyral: +1 03:55 Seveas kjcole, Do you think there will be so many teams?! 03:55 raphink lol === Kyral actually wants to meet RMS :D 03:56 Seveas Kyral, please don't go off-topic 03:56 Kyral sorry 03:56 kjcole Hyphens instead of wiki style was also an option. 03:56 ogra Seveas, US is a bit bigger than europe ;) 03:56 Seveas ogra, true, but 2 in texas? 03:56 smurf kjcole: umm, would that be north.tx.ubuntu-us.org then? 03:56 Kamion sabdfl: ok, how about I communicate that to her 03:56 jbailey Seveas: In the US and Canada, it's often not so much number of teams as proximity. 03:56 kjcole Seveas: The problem is we already have two in texas... 03:56 Seveas smurf, that and ubutnu-us-tx-north@lists 03:56 Kamion since everyone else is RUNNING AWAY :-) 03:56 ogra Seveas, Texas is bigger than europe i guess :) 03:56 jbailey Seveas: Canada is 14 times the size of France. =) 03:56 raphink ogra: Tx is not much bigger than France or Germany 03:57 mako i'm happy to talk to them 03:57 ogra raphink, but still ... 03:57 Kamion mako: hooray === mako knows a couple things about licensingg === Seveas cheers for mako 03:57 Kamion :-) 03:57 MagicFab jbailey: and half the people 03:57 Amaranth Heh, I was just about to say mako probably knows best. :) 03:57 kjcole Rewinding a bit: At UBZ, a few were talking about how "country" and "local" meant two different things. 03:57 sabdfl cheers all === sabdfl [n=mark@ubuntu/member/pdpc.silver.sabdfl] has left #ubuntu-meeting [] === CyBuX [n=cybux@200.75.79.223] has joined #ubuntu-meeting 03:58 Seveas kjcole, anyway, sounds like a plan and since you don't need CC approval for such things you should simply ping smurf to arrange it :) 03:58 mako i'm going to finish reading the logs and then contact kas and arnieboy 03:58 kjcole Local (to me and a few others) suggested a community where people were close enough to meet face to face. 03:58 jbailey MagicFab: Right. But a 5.5 time zone spread makes meetings very hard. =) 03:58 smurf Fine with me, anyay 03:58 MagicFab kjcole: and "locale" too 03:58 smurf anyway 03:58 Kamion Seveas: indeed 03:58 mako does someone have arniboy's email? 03:58 Seveas mako, will you ask them to come to the meeting too? 03:58 smurf as long as people don't want ubuntu-us-tx-north.org :-/ 03:58 robotgeek mako: greyrod@gmail.com 03:58 Kamion Seveas: no, that's obsolete 03:58 robotgeek nothing's wrong with TX 03:58 Seveas Kamion, ok 03:59 Kyral robotgeek: lol 03:59 Seveas So then we landed at new members 03:59 Kamion Seveas: sabdfl ruled on it, none of us disagreed (and I think we all heartily agree), end of story :) 03:59 MarioMeyer_ why dont u do sub-domains.. like north.tx.ubuntu-us.org 03:59 raphink :) 03:59 Seveas MarioMeyer_, they do 03:59 Seveas Kamion, couldn't agree more 03:59 mako Seveas: sure 03:59 \sh smurf: you could sell subdomains to it...like me.at.* like jump.to ,-) 04:00 smurf \sh: They're Canonical's ;-) 04:00 Seveas anyway, anyone question/remarks about any of the previous topics? 04:00 MagicFab I know if I go to Texas I wouldn't be searching for "TX" or "north.tx" 04:00 Seveas going once 04:00 robotgeek Seveas: wait... 04:00 mako lets move on 04:00 mako please === highvoltage [n=Jono@196.207.45.254] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === GuBA [n=gbarrero@64.76.50.38] has joined #ubuntu-meeting 04:00 mako it's gonna be pumpkin time again sooner rather than later 04:00 Seveas ok 04:00 robotgeek Seveas: the main issue is not with my script/whatever, but with the censorship. However, that's for later? 04:00 Seveas robotgeek, yes 04:01 Seveas moving on now 04:01 Kamion robotgeek: already ruled on and passed 04:01 robotgeek good 04:01 Seveas MagicFab 04:01 MagicFab yes 04:01 MagicFab posting summary... WikiPage:https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FabianRodriguez - re-edited since last CC. I am originally from Colombia, have been 04:01 MagicFab living in Quebec Canada since '89. I am part of Canadian Team, Marketing Team and recently helping Colombian Team get started (Loco Contact). I started UbuntuInLibraries, I also occasionally do cleanup on the Wiki, post to forums or help in #ubuntu, #ubuntu-fr and #ubuntu-es. I currently work full-time as an Open Source software solutions consultant, focusing on security and migration issues 04:01 MagicFab in Montreal. I have developed Linux training focused on Ubuntu which will be given at local libraries and ed. facilities, I have strong links to the local community and I am mostly interested in advocacy/marketing (events, etc.), local support & training and new users introduction / migration to Gnu/Linux 04:02 ogra MagicFab participated a lot in te ltsp BOFs iirc ... 04:02 Seveas to add: MagicFab was defered last time, since his wiki page was not clear enough on his contributions (being mainly in advocacy) and he has been asked to return this time after fixing that 04:02 Kamion mako: did you work with MagicFab over the last two weeks? 04:03 MagicFab I asked Drobitaille, CBurger , HFiguiere (members) to come, they're all in timezones difficult to come 04:03 MagicFab BUrger is here, also GuBa from (future) ColombianTeam 04:03 mako MagicFab: did we? i don't remember doing more than a few messages 04:03 mhz MagicFab: has also been active on marketing proposals and spreading ubuntu for latinamerican people 04:04 MagicFab mako: no, I asked for input but didn't get any replies. However I asked other members/users and did many changes === Kamion finds https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Fabi%C3%A1nRodr%C3%ADguezDetail 04:04 Seveas Actively marketing and selling Ubuntu-related services locally: <-- any url on that? 04:05 mhz Seveas, also MagicFab has started UbuntuInLibraries initiative 04:05 mako i'm still concerned that many of the more substantial projects within the the ubuntu project have pages and edits that are within the last week or two 04:05 MagicFab http://www.fabianrodriguez.com 04:05 MagicFab :) 04:06 jsgotangco mako, as if rushing for something? 04:06 jsgotangco :) 04:06 Seveas mhz, yeah I really like that one 04:06 mako mhz: yes, but that page is 9 days old 04:06 MagicFab mako: whois 04:07 mako on a conference call next week, we discussed the idea of giving some more fixed guidelines in terms of what we meaned by sustained projects 04:07 mhz hmmm, it is probably because many non-english activities related to ubuntu are usually not logged somewhere 04:07 mako basically, an involvement in/on a particular project that is 2+ months 04:07 mako mhz: well, then we need testimonials === mako is still reading the detail page 04:08 Seveas mako, advocacy is not always in projects 04:08 MagicFab mako: well, Iasked you driectly for input, didn't get any. I didn't re-add myself to the CC agenda, so I thought it was OK. Regardless, membership is not a requisite for me to keep contributing. 04:08 mhz mako: that's why having latinamerican ubuntu memebers was so important 04:08 mako Seveas: i understand that and i have been happy to accept other advocates 04:09 mako and i'm going to be happy to accept MagicFab too :) 04:09 mako but in fairness to everyone else, it seems like *some* testimonials would be useful 04:09 mhz usually, many contributors do not get logged mainly because 99% of what they do is in spanish or other lang. 04:09 mako in the absence of other documentation 04:09 Seveas mako, the people who can are not yet here 04:09 mako mhz: point me to spanish pages then 04:09 mako other people have 04:10 MagicFab how can I get that if theycan't come. 04:10 mako Seveas: i understand that 04:10 jsgotangco mhz, that shouldnt be an impendiment 04:10 MagicFab mhz: all my contribs are listed there (my wiki) 04:10 mako MagicFab: you can have them write it up? as comments on your page 04:10 mako in email to the CC 04:10 mako there are many options 04:10 Seveas mako, that's an idea 04:10 mhz jsgotangco: i know, it is just that even I had to make a decision... english or spanish. I chose english. 04:10 mako i believe we have solved the communicating asynchronously problem ;) 04:10 Kamion mako: perhaps we could mail those that Fabian lists under People and ask them for comments 04:11 Kamion (hub, corey, daniel, sivan) 04:11 mhz MagicFab: do you have a list or something? 04:11 mako Kamion: seems good 04:11 MagicFab mako: yes 04:11 mhz mako: good point 04:11 MagicFab Kamion: exactly 04:11 Kamion mhz: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Fabi%c3%a1nRodr%c3%adguez 04:11 MagicFab mako: they all need to be current members, right ? 04:11 Seveas MagicFab, not per se 04:11 Kamion mako: wanna do that, or shall I? 04:11 Seveas but it helps 04:12 Kamion certainly all the above are known to me, although I don't know hub so well 04:12 mako MagicFab: they should have been around for a long time and are well known and trusted by the CC and teh community 04:12 mako MagicFab: that will almost always make them members :) 04:12 mako but need not 04:12 MagicFab One thing I sense is that advocacy is always treated as second-class work. I feel I could become member by going MOTU in 1/10 the time 04:12 Amaranth MagicFab: It's easier to show MOTU work. 04:12 Kamion MagicFab: it's not so much second-class as much harder to "measure" 04:12 MagicFab And, well, without advocacy what would we do ? 04:12 mako MagicFab: that's not true 04:12 jsgotangco MagicFab, that ain't true... 04:12 Seveas kamion +1 === jsgotangco is more of advocate rather than developer 04:13 ogra MagicFab, you cant become MOTU without being member 04:13 mako i can think of a dozen members off of my top of my head who have pure advocacy 04:13 jjesse MagicFab: it took me 4 or 5 tries to be a member 04:13 mako probably 50% are pure advocacy memberships (even if they do other things) 04:13 MagicFab Well, it's not encouraging any advocacy work to just say "it's harder" - I mentioned in the last CC there needed to be more info for this kind of contributing 04:13 ogra MagicFab, but indeed its easier to document a handfull of bugs you solved than social work 04:13 smurf MagicFab: you forget that MOTU work is not visible most of the time -- all the hours of hacking on your box to find those damn bugs ... 04:14 jsgotangco ogra, true the social work really needs to be visible... 04:14 ogra yup 04:14 mako MagicFab: we talked about creating guidelines in a conference call after the next meeting 04:14 ogra and bugs are in bugzilla already 04:14 Kamion s/next/last/ === teroedni [n=teroedni@ti411310a080-3247.bb.online.no] has joined #ubuntu-meeting 04:14 MagicFab ogra: I'd like to work on that too - 04:14 ogra great :) === akurashy [n=David@64.237.176.17] has joined #ubuntu-meeting 04:15 jsgotangco jjesse, only because you don't go to meetings often before =) 04:15 mako MagicFab: you're not beiing rejected and you shouldn't feel that way 04:15 teroedni :) 04:15 jjesse jsgotangco: grin :) 04:15 MagicFab smurf: will setup a CVS for my UBuntu mentions all day :) 04:15 mako we ask everyone for 2 full months of sustained, significant, and visible contributions 04:15 MagicFab mako : I don't ;) I feel like my membership process is testing some new ground 04:15 mako frequently, the visible the hard part :) 04:15 jsgotangco growing pains 04:16 Seveas MagicFab, it is 04:16 bhuvan MagicFab, you must not take it that way 04:16 MagicFab mako: ONE month 04:16 MagicFab https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NewMemberProcess?highlight=%28newmember%29 04:16 zakame jsgotangco: here here! :D 04:16 MagicFab or two depending on sources - that's what I mean 04:17 MagicFab anyways, I 04:17 mako MagicFab: we're probably going to change that :) 04:17 MagicFab will get involved in the NewMember stuff, hope to learn more from there 04:17 Seveas MagicFab, cool, glad you don't feel rejected 04:17 bhuvan MagicFab, good 04:18 mako MagicFab: where does it say one month? === ian_brasil [n=vern@pintada.proamazon.com.br] has joined #ubuntu-meeting 04:18 Seveas mako, you have said that before, so I put that on the what-to-do-if-you-want-to-be-a-member page 04:18 mako MagicFab: also, that is a wikipage, not an official process page 04:18 zakame MagicFab: go rock the advocacy :D 04:18 Kamion MagicFab: the mention of a month there is about people who never show up for discussion 04:18 mako Seveas: cool 04:18 mhz MagicFab: how old is tha include you made and shared with me ? 04:19 mako alright, lets go on === chmj [n=chmj@dsl-146-143-211.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-meeting 04:19 Seveas LaserJock, 04:19 Seveas (JordanMantha) 04:19 Seveas give us the 3-line intro please 04:19 LaserJock wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JordanMantha 04:19 LaserJock LP: https://launchpad.net/people/mantha I am a 4th year PhD student in Physical Chemistry at the University of Nevada, Reno. I have been using Ubuntu since 04:19 LaserJock the Hoary Array CDs. I use it at work for data collection and analysis (as well as packaging on the side ;-) ) I've been helping out the MOTU since a few weeks before the Breezy release. I try to do whatever I can to help. 04:19 LaserJock Basically, I try to focus on scientific package since I feel the need for that. For Breezy I worked on unmet deps and FTBFS as much as I could while learning to package. 04:19 LaserJock I have done some merges and worked on some bugs. I also started a MOTUScience team and a working on an Ubuntu Packaging Guide for the doc-team. 04:20 bhuvan LaserJock have been doing good job on packaging guide for quite some time 04:20 jsgotangco yay 04:20 Seveas ok, MOTU people, we need advocates :) 04:20 MagicFab Kamion: I'll dig it - the point is the process is CONFUSING and excluding advocacy because "it's hard to measure". I'll try harder to measure it, so should you 04:20 jjesse LaserJock: is working hard on the doc team 04:20 Amaranth LaserJock: ever get any feedback upstream on the science category? 04:20 ogra and at the MOTUs 04:20 LaserJock Amaranth: don't think so yet 04:21 LaserJock Amaranth: I will keep track of it though 04:21 Amaranth LaserJock: if not snag the icon from the bug and see if seb128 will do it as a patch for now 04:21 crimsun I worked with Jordan prior to Breezy's release; a couple of his changes are in Breezy 04:21 Kyral LaserJock: I think the only thing we got back was the email tag about FlowDesigner 04:21 ogra he's around for quite some time already and did a lot of merges i'd consider myself as rather advanced tasks 04:21 crimsun I've also uploaded a host of his merge work for Dapper 04:21 dholbach i was very happy to see LaserJock start the motuscience team and start working on organising the MOTU part of the wiki === chmj [n=chmj@dsl-146-143-211.telkomadsl.co.za] has left #ubuntu-meeting [] 04:21 Seveas ok, the cheerleaders are happy :) 04:21 Amaranth aye 04:21 jsgotangco yeahh 04:22 Kamion MagicFab: yeah, it's something we talked about on the phone the other week and will be trying to improve 04:22 MagicFab crimsun: for how long ;) 04:22 zakame go go go LaserJock :) 04:22 seb128 Amaranth: what? 04:22 crimsun MagicFab: a bit longer than two months 04:22 Seveas LaserJocks wikipage looks ok, syncing is a good job :) 04:23 ogra and wxwidgets is an evil package to start with, kudos ... 04:23 bhuvan LaserJock, you should have included your doc patches in your wiki 04:23 Seveas :) 04:24 LaserJock ogra: yeah, I didn't know what I was getting into 04:24 ogra hehe 04:24 ogra but you did it :) 04:24 Seveas LaserJock, to boldly merge what no one ever merged before 04:24 Kamion prior to breezy's release => nearly more than two months already 04:24 LaserJock Seveas: lol, ignorance instead of boldness maybe 04:25 Seveas LaserJock, well you pulled it off 04:25 Seveas that's a big + 04:25 \sh laserjock for membership? I'm happy to see him as member and later on as motu :) === Bonzodog [n=Bonzodog@unaffiliated/bonzodog] has joined #ubuntu-meeting 04:25 LaserJock \sh: eventually. one step at a time 04:25 Seveas the crowd is happy, but what about the CC? 04:25 mako there's certainly a lot of work h ere 04:26 jsgotangco solid work really 04:26 Kamion there are uploads from LaserJock going back to September, anyway 04:26 \sh LaserJock: no excuses no running away :) === ogra remembers that mako can speak from a MOTU POV too now :) 04:26 dholbach haha === dholbach hugs mako :) === ogra hugs mako too 04:26 mako airght 04:26 bhuvan dholbach you hug frequently :) 04:27 \sh oh yes...mako...welcome to MOTU :) we're waiting for your merges ;9 04:27 raphink :) 04:27 mako LaserJock sounds fine with me 04:27 ogra bhuvan, he's a true hugger 04:27 Kamion I'm very happy to see somebody taking up a bunch of science applications, and am happy with LaserJock for membership 04:27 elmo ack from me too 04:27 Seveas LaserJock, congratz! 04:28 dholbach congratulations, LaserJock 04:28 jsgotangco cheers 04:28 LaserJock thanks CC, thanks all you supporters 04:28 Seveas welcome to the Ubuntumember boat 04:28 \sh LaserJock: welcome aboard :) 04:28 Kamion LaserJock: a lot of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuPackagingGuide/Outline seems like it would fit under the banner of developer-documentation (discussed at UBZ; conclusion was to make a small branch of the Debian Developer's Reference) === LaserJock hugs everybody 04:28 ogra yay for LaserJock 04:28 Seveas Next up: Kyral (Chris Peterman) 04:28 zakame yay LaserJock :D 04:28 Kyral Wiki: wiki.ubuntu.com/ChrisPeterman 04:28 Kamion it might be worthwhile looking at that rather than duplicating several years of work in Debian 04:28 LaserJock Kamion: I talked to Diziet about that. He thought it was ok 04:28 Kamion ok ... 04:28 LaserJock Kamion: I will keep in touch with him though 04:29 Kamion thanks 04:29 Seveas Kyral has been quite active in #ubuntu === ogra waits for the three liner intor 04:29 ogra *intro Greetings. I am currently a second year CS Major at Clarkson University. Currently I am helping out mostly on the 04:30 Kyral Forums, but I have also recently been helping out LaserJock with MOTUScience. I have also started a small LocoTeam between Clarkson University and SUNY Potsdam. Currently running Dapper on both my Desktop on Laptop 04:30 Seveas that's line one :) 04:30 Seveas what are your plans for Ubuntu activity? 04:31 \sh he forgot to tell us that he was the first pupil in ubuntus motu school :) 04:31 mhz LaserJock: yahooo! 04:31 MagicFab for how long ? 04:31 Kyral Yah, I got jumped by 4 MOTUs last Wednesday 04:31 ogra \sh, did he behave while you were teaching him ? :) 04:31 raphink lol 04:31 Seveas IRC activity dates back quite some time 04:32 \sh ogra: well...yes..but he forgot his homework :) 04:32 Kyral RIght now I have finals coming up so Ubuntu is kinda on the backburner 04:32 Kyral However in-between semesters I will pick up on my activity again, hopefully finishing FlowDesigner's patches === ogra thinks he remembers Kyral from #ubuntu when he was active there himself ... 04:33 Kyral In addition I have signed up to write the Install Guide for the DocTeam and I plan to help LaserJock with the packaging Guide 04:33 mako when was this? 04:33 Seveas ogra, correct 04:33 ogra mako, way ago ... 04:33 Kyral mako: When was what? 04:33 Seveas My logs only date back to sept 23 and he was active then 04:33 Amaranth oh crap, finals === Amaranth goes to study 04:33 ogra i think i stopped being highly active there during my work on hwdb 04:33 Seveas but i'm pretty sure i've seen him far before that too 04:34 MagicFab Kyral, can you tell us since when you consider you have contributing to Ubuntu ? 04:34 ogra so mid hoary ... 04:34 Kyral My Forums registration date is about May 04:34 Kyral I believe === ogra notes that he starts to measure time in ubuntu releases ... is that worrying ? 04:35 Nafallo ogra: totally the way to go :-) 04:35 Seveas Join Date: 05-19-2005 04:35 Seveas Posts 04:35 Seveas Total Posts: 1,650 (8.21 posts per day) 04:35 Seveas (kyral @ forums) 04:35 ogra hehe 04:35 jsgotangco ogra, tsk tsk.... 04:35 LaserJock ogra: better than Debian releases ;-) 04:35 ogra loool 04:35 jsgotangco hahaha 04:35 raphink lol 04:35 Kyral Most of my work has been in the Forums Community, specializing in the Desktop Support and Absolute Beginners Talk forums. I have written two helper threads for the ABT Forum, Terminal For Beginners and Window Managers for Beginners 04:36 zakame hehe 04:36 Seveas I'd be happy with Kyral as member given his support work on IRC and the forums 04:36 MagicFab So that's easy to measure. Forum posts. 04:36 kjcole ogra: Sounds like the Zork Flathead calendar... warty, hoary, breezy... 04:36 Kyral I recently helped Brunellus write the Fluxbox wiki page 04:36 mako hmm.. impressive inregards to the forums.. and a quick glance over implies good qualiity === mako is happy with membership 04:36 Kamion MagicFab: I'm not personally convinced by post count as a measure of contribution though === mhz has read those 'helper threads', very illustrative 04:36 mako Kamion: yes 04:36 jsgotangco MagicFab, quantity doesnt count 04:37 MagicFab Kyral: what % of your contributions would you say are advocacy andor business related 04:37 mako Kamion: i always spot check 04:37 LaserJock Kyral has been lots of help with MOTUScience, he has 2 science package on REVU right now and he is always eager to help 04:37 Kyral I have also helped people on campus install Ubuntu === mhz also read the Fluxbox wiki page and even subscribed. That was a very KISS page 04:37 Kyral MagicFab: I don't do business, I'm just a simple CS Major 04:37 MagicFab jsgotangco: well then don't, I just said it's easy to measure, never mentioned quality (tx. mhz) 04:38 Kyral They are very happy with it and were surprised that it was that easy 04:38 MagicFab Kyral: advocacy ? 04:38 crimsun Chris has been active in #ubuntu for 3+ months. I'm fairly active in that channel. 04:38 Kamion the referenced pieces of documentation seem to be pretty clear documentation for beginners, to me 04:38 Kamion MagicFab: it's not particularly easy to measure, although it is at least visible so we have something to go to 04:39 Kyral Next semester in combination with the rest of the PNYTeam I hope to deploy Edubuntu into the Potsdam NY school district 04:39 ogra crimsun, sure thats not been longer (much longer ?) 04:39 Kamion (well, the *useful* thing isn't easy to measure :-)) 04:39 nalioth Kyral does help out quite a bit on IRC, and has for some time 04:39 ogra yay 04:39 ogra ++ for edubuntu promotion 04:39 crimsun ogra: I'm fairly sure it's at the very least 3 months 04:39 Kyral But that one is still up in the air as I have to go through one of my professors who has the contacts in the district 04:39 crimsun s/fairly// 04:40 mhz Kyral: educool! 04:40 mhz :) 04:40 Kyral But an InstallFest is VERY Likely 04:40 Seveas crimsun, that's the very least, it's been 4 months more :) === kiko-fud [n=kiko@200-171-140-32.dsl.telesp.net.br] has left #ubuntu-meeting ["Left] 04:40 mhz Kyral: i hope you join #edubuntu after meeting 04:40 Kamion I'm happy with Kyral for membership after checking up on some of the references === mako nods 04:41 Kyral mhz: After the meeting I need to go to class :D 04:41 mhz Kyral: okis, then as soon as you can :) 04:41 ogra mhz, he sometimes is there ... 04:41 mhz indeed 04:41 mako alright, i'm running short on time here 04:41 Seveas ok, next up raphink 04:41 Kyral Actually I am too 04:41 raphink ok 04:41 Seveas if elmo has voted 04:41 raphink (WikiPage : http://wiki.ubuntu.com/RaphaelPinson ; Launchpad : https://launchpad.net/people/raphink ) 04:41 Seveas so not yet :) 04:41 raphink I'm a 23-year-old french guy, formerly studying aeronautical engineering. I'm involved in packaging for Ubuntu, and a MOTU Wanabee, having already been granted the right to review on the REVU system. 04:41 raphink My first contact with Ubuntu was with Warty on PPC, although I mostly used Debian Sid during the last year, before switching to Kubuntu with Breezy. 04:41 raphink I spend a lot of time on IRC helping on #kubuntu, #ubuntu, #kubuntu-fr and #ubuntu-fr channels and more, since about mid-. I also contributed a bit to bug fixes and translations on Rosetta. 04:42 raphink huhu 04:42 elmo ack for kyral 04:42 raphink sorry 04:42 Seveas elmo, cool 04:42 ogra welcome Kyral 04:42 Seveas Kyral, welcome! === Kyral smiles 04:42 Kyral now, if you will excuse me, I have to run to class :D 04:42 kjcole Kyral: Congrats 04:42 ogra go to class .... 04:42 raphink :) 04:42 raphink s/mid-/mid-october/ 04:43 Kamion Kyral: BTW not entirely sure about your strategy for debugging the build-essential/PLF thing - apt-get -o Debug::pkgProblemResolver=true is often a lot quicker 04:43 mhz Kyral: wlecome edubuntero :D 04:43 mako where is your lp page? 04:43 Seveas https://launchpad.net/people/raphink 04:43 Kyral mine? 04:43 mako no 04:43 raphink mine is where Seveas just pointed ;) 04:44 raphink (although I have posted it in my "3-line-intro" too) 04:44 mako sorry, misseed it 04:44 dholbach one thing i can say about raphink is that i was impressed that he reviewed packages on REVU and mailed the contributors (although he was no motu yet)... i talked to siretart, to give raphink comment-rights in revu. 04:44 raphink shall I post again? 04:45 Seveas raphink, no 04:45 ogra raphink, we can scroll 04:45 mako no no,it's fine 04:45 raphink ok :) 04:45 ogra dholbach++ 04:45 Seveas raphink, is indeed helpful for REVU 04:45 MagicFab raphink: since when ? 04:45 mako have long have you been doing the revue work? 04:46 raphink MagicFab: since very recently if that makes you feel comfortable ;) 04:46 raphink mako: I have been granted the review rights only a few days ago 04:46 mako right 04:46 raphink I have had packages on REVU since about 20 days i'd say 04:46 MagicFab raphink: just logging stuff ;) 04:46 Seveas raphink, that's a bit too short I'm afraid 04:46 raphink and began to be active on IRC in mid-october 04:46 MagicFab raphink: also checking if I should go MOTU 04:46 mako ok, i'd prefer a little longer term contributions in there areas personally 04:46 MagicFab ;) 04:47 raphink Seveas: I reckon it's recent contributinos 04:47 mako not much, 1-2 more meetings worth 04:47 Seveas raphink, see you in 2006 ;) 04:47 jsgotangco LOL === mako shrugs 04:47 mako that's not the law 04:47 raphink hehe 04:47 mako that's just my gut feelingg right now === MagicFab has to run 04:47 Kamion yeah, I'd tend to go with mako, although what I see so far is good 04:47 Seveas mako, but I do agree with it 04:47 mako if Kamion or elmo disagrees, that's fine too 04:47 raphink bye MagicFab 04:48 mako alright guys === juliux [n=juliux@ubuntu/member/juliux] has joined #ubuntu-meeting 04:48 mako i'm coming up on a hard end to my time here 04:48 Seveas he's done good work, so in a few weeks he'll fly by 04:48 juliux hi all === mako nods 04:48 raphink hi juliux 04:48 Seveas there's 3 more to go 04:48 ogra so speed up ... 04:48 MagicFab I'd like this question to be asked to all members: since when have you been contributing. Just want to understand this better. Will review the logs. 04:48 raphink there's just the fact that it's a funny situation to be granted review rights without being a member, but if that's alright ;) === ogra fears the yellow mako 04:49 mako i have 9 more minutes 04:49 Seveas ok, next up kjcole 04:49 Seveas 3 line intro please === MagicFab gotta go - cheers to all 04:49 kjcole Summary: 04:49 Seveas cya MagicFab === MagicFab is now known as MagicFab_away I'm a co-author for the Edubuntu Cookbook (WIP), and working at a university exclusively for deaf students, am 04:49 kjcole involved with the Accessibility Team (and trying to involve students and faculty here). I've contributed several bug reports on Launchpad. Last May, I helped run an InstallFest with Ubuntu as the distro of choice. I helped run a local Software Freedom Day event. I'm now the Washington, DC LoCo Team leader/contact (replacing Paul Flint 04:49 kjcole s switched to Ubuntu, and have installed it in two local public libraries. I also worked on LTSP.org's wiki at UBZ. 04:50 Seveas kjcole, sounds cool 04:50 hno73 I can confirm that kjcole has been doing good work on the Accessibility Team 04:50 kjcole (And, http://wiki.ubuntu.com/KevinCole and https://launchpad.net/people/kjcole since those questions come up a lot here.) 04:50 ogra kjcole, is a active edubuntu contributor .... 04:50 Kamion first line cut off at "(replacing Paul Flint" 04:50 jsgotangco same here 04:50 Seveas your wikipage is a bit incomplete it seems 04:51 mako well, it's not bad, but it's doesn't represent all that you've contributed :0 04:51 jsgotangco he's relatively new but he's been focused on stuff 04:51 kjcole int). We've gotten some local businesses switched to Ubuntu, and have installed it in two local public libraries. I also worked on LTSP.org's wiki at UBZ. 04:51 mako there are some quite significant pieces of docs in there 04:52 ogra the edubuntu cookbook is *very* significant 04:52 Seveas the freenx howto is a bit redundant :) === mhz has seen a lot kjcole around interacting in IRC and AT 04:52 jsgotangco ogra, where is it located at this time btw? 04:52 ogra jsgotangco, you should know :P 04:52 jsgotangco ogra, oh right...yes... 04:52 ogra heh 04:52 kjcole ogra: Elkner and I have set up weekly meetings to work on the Cookbook. Making good progress. 04:53 ogra cool 04:53 mako kjcole: very excellent 04:53 mako any testimonials? 04:53 ogra i'd like to look over it for the tech POV ... but that doesnt belong here 04:53 jsgotangco well he did took over the cookbook from me.... 04:53 jsgotangco (when i started with my new job) 04:54 mhz mako: kjcole has been very commited to edubuntu 04:54 ogra he was very active in the ltsp BOFs at montreal === mako nods 04:55 jsgotangco his experience with AT has been helping the newly formed AT team === mako is happy with kjcole as a member for the documentation work alone 04:55 mako it's impressive 04:55 hno73 he makes good contributions in discussions on accessibility 04:55 mako oh, and acccessibility 04:55 mhz we need kjcole 04:55 Kamion mm, right, sorry I've been quiet, I've been lost in the huge pile of documentation ;-) 04:55 mhz hehehehe 04:55 Seveas Kamion, that's a good sign :) 04:56 mako alright guys, 3 minutes for me 04:56 ogra vote !! 04:56 Seveas Kamion, elmo any verdict on kjcole ? 04:56 Kamion yeah, I'm happy 04:56 Seveas cool, that's 2 04:56 ogra elmo ? 04:57 elmo ack 04:57 Kamion NEXT 04:57 Kamion Steve Kowalik 04:57 Seveas cool, welcome kjcole 04:57 StevenK Wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SteveKowalik 04:57 ogra welcome kjcole 04:57 Seveas StevenK, I'm 24 years old, and have been a Debian developer since August of 2001. I have done 12 or so merges of universe 04:57 StevenK packages, and have been helping on #ubuntu-motu with technical questions as well. My immediate plans for Ubuntu include becoming an MOTU to help with the merge until the UVF, and fixing up xemacs, since at the moment, its a little broken, and unusable for my purposes. === mako is familiar with steve's work from debian 04:57 kjcole Thanks. When can I expect the secret decoder ring and X-ray vision glasses in the mail? ;-) 04:57 ogra dholbach, asked me for: 04:57 Seveas StevenK, just a note: you don't have to be a motu to help 04:57 ogra I was very glad to see StevenK 1) learning the different workflows in the motu team so quickly and 2) helping other MOTU hopefuls, since he knew part of the story as a DD already" 04:58 StevenK Seveas: Of course not. 04:58 Kamion kjcole: could you propose yourself for the ubuntumembers team in LP please? https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntumembers/+join 04:58 mhz kjcole: edubuntu people rock! 04:58 mako StevenK: how long have you been hanging around these parts? 04:58 StevenK mako: Not long enough? :-) 04:58 ogra Seveas, see the dholbach quote 04:58 ogra 2) especially 04:58 StevenK mako: It hasn't been long. A few weeks is rough guess. 04:59 mako StevenK: cool, lets put this off for a couple more then if that's alright 04:59 mako StevenK: cool to see you around here :) 04:59 StevenK Couple more weeks, or meetings? 04:59 Seveas twice as many weeks as meeting :) 04:59 Seveas but i'd say 2 meeting should do 05:00 mako probably a couple meetings to be fair 05:00 raphink that seems mathematically correct Seveas ;) 05:00 Kamion shrug, I don't have a problem either way since Steve's been doing lots of Debian work for ages (and thereby effectively contributing to Ubuntu if you want to look at it that way) === mako nods 05:00 ogra Kamion++ 05:00 Kamion but if we want to defer for fairness to other folks, that's fine too 05:00 mako we have said we'd taken debian work as a form of indirect contribution 05:00 mhz Kamion: very important point 05:01 ogra elmo, any opinion ? === mako has not objections to steve either 05:01 Kamion the only caveat to the above is making sure people know the ropes and are happy to stay around 05:01 elmo I don't mind either 05:01 Kamion (trying to avoid Debian's problem of lots of inactive people, really) 05:02 Kamion Steve's been in Debian for years though so I figure he has some degree of staying power 05:02 ogra was that a vote ? 05:02 mako StevenK: does that sound OK? 05:02 StevenK Um, there was a conclusion reached? 05:02 mako StevenK: you gonna stay around? 05:02 Kamion that was the least conclusive vote EVAH 05:02 Seveas :) 05:02 mako StevenK: feel like you know the ropes? 05:03 StevenK mako: I'm planning on sticking around, anyway. 05:03 mako StevenK: if you're alright committing now, i think we're happy approving you for membership 05:03 StevenK mako: I'm getting there quickly. 05:03 mako cool 05:03 ogra mako, he helps and teaches MOTU hopefulls, seems he knows the ropes 05:03 mako killer 05:03 mako alright, 05:03 mako i am overdue alright 05:03 Kamion right, StevenK++ since we know and trust him from elsewhere 05:03 mako was ther eone more 05:03 Seveas yes, zyga 05:03 Kamion azeem was the last 05:03 zyga hi 05:03 StevenK Hell, I wrote a package checker. That implies I know packaging. :-) 05:03 Kamion oh, zyga 05:03 mako two more than! 05:03 zyga Zygmunt Krynicki 23, freelance programmer 05:03 mako StevenK: i'm familiarr with it 05:04 Kamion elmo: I'll take "I don't mind either" as a yes 05:04 zyga I've been here befor a month ago, since then I've been active in -desktop team 05:04 StevenK Thanks for the approval, though. 05:04 ogra so may we say welcome StevenK ? 05:04 ogra :) 05:04 elmo Kamion: ok ;) === bhuvan [n=bhuvan@59.92.40.105] has left #ubuntu-meeting [] 05:04 ogra yeah 05:04 zyga I've got an (almost) fully impolemented spec, for command-not-found, together with mvo's help 05:04 Seveas welcome StevenK then :) 05:04 mhz StevenK: welcome! 05:04 mako alright guys, im two hours late to work already 05:04 StevenK Thanks! 05:04 mako i am going to run 05:04 Seveas mako, :( 05:04 StevenK I might run, too. 05:04 zyga I'm also working with pitti on .desktop files (mainly patches to code on my side) 05:05 Kamion mako: seeya 05:05 StevenK Considering it's 3am. 05:05 Seveas mako, have fun at work, seeya next time 05:05 zyga I've been active on the translation arena 05:05 mako please go ahead 05:05 zyga as well as local (ubuntu.pl) arena 05:05 Kamion ok, sorry everyone, but we just became inquorate - we can go through people and mako can catch up later to complete approvals 05:05 zyga I still need to devote more time for motu ruby 05:05 Seveas mako, I'll e-mail you the relevant log 05:05 Seveas (for zyga/azeem) 05:05 mako if you guys come to consensus, i give mhz permission to install a bot to pester me ever 5 minutes until i answer one way or another 05:05 zyga I guess that's it, the rest is on my profile page 05:06 kjcole As it is 11:00 AM, and I'm theoretically working for my office... I'm outa here. Thanks again. TTYL. === StevenK [n=stevenk@14.5.233.220.exetel.com.au] has left #ubuntu-meeting ["Sleeeeep!"] 05:06 zyga I'm happy to answer any questions you may have 05:06 Kamion mvo: around? 05:06 ogra ciao kjcole 05:06 azeem we can just defer me to the next meeting, no problem 05:06 mvo Kamion: yes 05:06 Seveas azeem, rock 05:06 mhz mako: mean me or mdz? 05:06 Kamion mvo: opinions on zyga? 05:06 mako-pumpkin mhz: you 05:06 mako-pumpkin later 05:06 mhz bye 05:06 Seveas .desktop + gettext sounds cool 05:07 mvo I'm happy with zyga contribution, he did a lot of good work on cmd-not-found spec 05:07 mvo +1 from me on membership 05:07 ogra he pushes me to inally make hwdb gettextable, so ++ from here ... 05:07 ogra *finally 05:07 zyga oh right :) 05:07 zyga I need to send you that :) 05:07 mvo very active on various fronts :) 05:07 zyga I keep forgetting ;P 05:08 ogra me too, me too 05:08 ogra :) 05:08 zyga oh no actually, you need that bzr branch, right? === zakame [n=zak@ubuntu/member/zakame] has joined #ubuntu-meeting 05:08 ogra yup 05:08 zyga k 05:08 ogra but its on my todo for this week 05:08 ogra (officially) 05:09 Kamion Scope 05:09 Kamion This idea touches nearly every single package from universe and some packages in main. 05:09 Kamion ^-- concerning ... 05:09 Kamion (we generally try REALLY REALLY REALLY HARD to avoid touching the whole of universe for anything at all) 05:10 zyga Kamion: that's for the future :-) === pitti [n=pitti@ubuntu/member/pitti] has joined #ubuntu-meeting 05:10 pitti Hi 05:10 zakame hi pitti 05:10 Kamion zyga: just logging something I perceive as insanity now rather than later :) 05:10 zyga Kamion: it might be implemented for dapper+1 as a test run. I won't have enough time to finish it before 05:10 Kamion but you seem to be contributing all over the place anyway and you've been around for some time, so I have no problem saying yes 05:10 zyga Kamion: and it needs some good understanding of how updated langpacks work out 05:11 pitti zyga> So far I worked with Zygmunt with translation-related things; we discussed some improvements and some ideas about enhancing langpacks/rosetta 05:11 pitti and I was really impressed by his work for LangpacksLocales 05:11 pitti he provided patches, tests, etc. 05:11 pitti I would be glad to see him as a member 05:12 Kamion ok, works for me, thanks 05:12 Kamion elmo? 05:12 elmo yeah, ack 05:12 pitti (sorry for being late; I'm still not used to the rotation) 05:12 Kamion pitti: you and me both, I think it's more shuffling than rotation 05:12 Seveas cool, mhz, start the mako-ping-bot ;) 05:12 mhz hehehehe 05:12 Kamion Michael Banck 05:13 Seveas Kamion, which brings us to the last item 05:13 Kamion another long-time Debian guy 05:13 Seveas azeem didn't mind being defered 05:13 zyga Yah 05:13 Kamion ok, that would be simpler === zyga lost one line and was kept waiting for something already there :) 05:13 Seveas so next is scheduling 05:13 zyga thanks 05:13 jsgotangco i gotta sleep cacth you guys later 05:13 Seveas I received a total of zero seggestions on a new CC schedule 05:13 pitti congrats, zyga, and welcome 05:14 zyga thanks :)) 05:14 Seveas which is a bit less than expected :) 05:14 Kamion Seveas: and again we've missed mako, d'oh 05:14 Seveas Kamion, shall I just do this via E-mail for the next meeting and pester people to reply? 05:14 Kamion personally I have no idea what mako's schedule is nowadays (since he isn't working for Canonical any more) 05:14 elmo we should set up a list, and organize it by email 05:14 ogra lets do the scheduling at the beginning next time, so he can intervene 05:14 Kamion Seveas: I think mailing the four of us would be moderately useful, yes, and what elmo said about a list 05:15 Kamion shall I poke jdub about that? 05:15 elmo nah, mail RT 05:15 elmo I can do that these days 05:15 Kamion 'k 05:15 Seveas ubuntu-cc@lists I guess? 05:15 Seveas or cummonity-council@lists === Kamion was thinking community-council@ or ubuntu-council@ 05:15 Seveas well, with the o and u swapped 05:16 Seveas I'd prefer community-council@ 05:16 elmo I don't much care; I'll create whichever I'm told 05:16 Seveas hehe 05:16 elmo but anyway, since we can't organize the schedule now - is there anything else? 05:16 Seveas no === Seveas hands elmo the hammer 05:17 mhz Seveas: was mako serious on the botting issue? 05:17 elmo Kamion: good on your side? 05:17 elmo mhz: no 05:17 mhz cool === mhz can really be a pian in the neck if asked to :D 05:17 Seveas :) 05:17 Kamion oh, should community-council@ be publicly archived? 05:17 Seveas I'd say yes 05:17 Kamion personally I'm thinking not because we do sometimes need the facility for private discussion 05:18 elmo Kamion: I'd guess not - anything substantive that's public should be done in a more public forum 05:18 Seveas will it be 'open for the public' to subscribe? 05:18 Kamion Seveas: no 05:18 Kamion it's more along the lines of a contact address 05:18 Seveas only the 4 of you? 05:18 Kamion right 05:18 Kamion it should be possible for people to mail "the community council" === mhz wanted to have over 1000 mails 05:19 Seveas ok, then I'll mention it as a contact address in the report 05:19 ogra mhz, you dont want that ... 05:19 mhz hehehe 05:19 ogra there are days in have twice as much ... 05:19 mhz ogra: I love to 'delte' emais from inbox 05:19 mhz :D 05:19 Kamion and it should probably be possible for people to mail it with roughly the same expectation of privacy as they have from mailing a person (i.e. some) 05:19 ogra (normally its aroud 3-400) 05:19 Seveas Kamion, can I/ogra/dholbach/smurf as active CC-meeting-followers subscribe or is it strictly the four of you? 05:20 elmo Seveas: it's a contact address for the CC 05:20 Kamion elmo: RTed 05:20 elmo so it should be limited to the CC 05:20 Seveas ok 05:20 elmo IMO 05:20 elmo Kamion: thanks 05:21 Kamion Seveas: as elmo says, wider discussion can be held on other fora (e.g. sounder@) or people can be cc'ed for input on specific issues 05:21 jsgotangco sounder is good 05:21 Seveas OK, then that'll be all I guess 05:21 Seveas I'm going to make and eat dinner and then write the summary for {devel,sounder,cc,fridge} 05:21 Kamion I don't mean to be exclusionary here, I don't expect there will be lots of stuff there, but a contact address is getting increasingly required 05:22 Kamion and in cases of dispute resolution other people may very well want it to be limited-circulation 05:22 Kamion ok, I think we're done, thanks all 05:22 robotgeek later 05:22 Seveas later all 05:23 zakame yay 05:23 Seveas 2 weeks from now, at a time to be discussed :) }}}