CC_2006-02-21
09:00 Kamion elmo: here?
09:00 Kamion mako: here?
=== Kyral shuts up
09:00 Kamion no sabdfl it seems, I imagine he's travelling
=== ompaul [n=ompaul@213-202-162-127.bas503.dsl.esat.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
09:00 Kamion still
09:00 elmo I'm here
09:00 Kyral Yah did anyone catch the bit about him in DW Weekly?
=== seb128 [n=seb128@ubuntu/member/seb128] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
09:00 nalioth robotgeek: started what?
09:00 elmo and yeah sabdfl is, flying according to the board in the office
09:01 robotgeek nalioth: :)
09:01 Kamion Kyral: please move off-topic stuff elsewhere, personally I'd like to get
this meeting over reasonably quickly so I can enjoy the evening :-)
09:01 mako Kamion: yes
09:01 Kamion excellent, quorum
09:01 Kyral Kamion: it was my last bit :P
09:01 Seveas coolness
Increase the number of IRC ops/moderators in the major Ubuntu channels,
09:01 Kamion especially #ubuntu. The 24hr nature of the channel - and the fact that
the current ops are all busy people - has meant inadequate moderator
coverage at times -- Madpilot
09:01 Seveas let's get started
09:01 mako a minute early even
09:01 Kamion Seveas proposed Brian Burger and Paul O'Malley
09:02 Seveas madpilot can not attend the meeting, but the request is clear
09:02 Kamion we've talked to Brian before for membership; I think Paul too although I
don't remember the conversation clearly
09:02 Kamion do we have any current #ubuntu ops here who can give us the current ops
list?
09:02 Seveas Brian Burger is a member, Paul not yes
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=== Burgwork avoids talk of nepotism
09:02 ompaul Kamion, no I have never addressed this
09:02 mako i spent a decent amount of time with paul in the past
09:02 Kamion ompaul: o
09:02 Kamion k
09:02 Seveas Kamion, /msg chanserv access #ubuntu list
09:03 ompaul mako, I still owe you coffee :)
09:03 robotgeek https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRCOperators
09:03 Kamion ah yes, this week it works for non-ops
09:03 Seveas Kamion, during the bot attacks I set the 'secure' option on - didn't know
it made all lists unavailable. I changed that when I heard this
09:04 Kamion I agree that that list is probably not quite extensive enough for the
current size and activity level of #ubuntu
09:04 Seveas and quite a few on that list aren't very active in #ubuntu
09:04 mako absolutely
09:04 Burgwork I noticed that as well
09:04 Kamion we could check with those people and remove them if they agree
09:05 Kamion there's not much point having inactive ops around
09:05 mako well, the currently problem is going to be solved by removing people
09:05 Seveas Ok, I'll poke around for that
09:05 mako that might be a good idea moving forward but we solve the immediate
problem first
09:05 Kamion what timezones do Brian and Paul occupy?
09:05 Seveas is it ok to give myself a higher level in #ubuntu so I don't have to poke
jdub every time?
09:06 Seveas paul is .ie, brian .ca
=== sivang glimpses at the CC meeting while in heavy hacking on HUB.
09:06 ompaul I am in Dublin
09:06 Kyral Might I make a suggestion? That we have an Op for every Timezone (at
least one per zone)?
09:06 Burgwork madpilot is -8, same as mdz, robitaille and myself
09:06 Kamion Kyral: bit tricky for e.g. UTC-2 ;-)
09:06 Kyral eh?
=== nalioth is Marek Spruell
09:07 Seveas Kyral, we need a few more from .au and related, if you have candidates:
talk to us
09:07 lucas I'm not really happy with the idea of having non-members being ops
09:07 Kyral oyah lol
=== Kamion shifts ompaul a few hundred miles west into the Atlantic Ocean
09:07 Kamion there
09:07 Kyral Seveas: it was just an idea lol
=== ompaul gets wet
09:07 Kyral I mean itt would mean someone was up all the time
=== irvin is on UTC+8
09:07 Seveas lucas, generally I'd agree but for ompaul I'm happy to make an exception
(and he should be poked to apply for membership)
09:07 Kamion we were ok there while bob2 and daniels were active
09:07 jjesse is it mostly australia/asian time that is missing?
09:08 Kyral someone poke ajmitch for it :P
09:08 Seveas jjesse, that part of the world is 'understaffed'
09:08 Kamion I have no objection to Madpilot, and perhaps we can add ompaul pending
his membership
09:09 Kamion but somebody really ought to look out for good people in the understaffed
timezones
09:09 ompaul Kamion, consider me poked
=== robotgeek is a kop, and a non-member?
09:09 Kamion I don't think we can do that here
09:09 Seveas Kamion, then let me repeat my question: is it ok for me to give myself a
higher level in #ubuntu so I don't have to poke jdub every time?
09:09 ompaul Kamion, I'll stick it in for the next one
09:09 Seveas robotgeek, #kubuntu ops are generally not appointed by the CC
09:10 robotgeek Seveas: hmm, okay.
09:10 Riddell I appoint them
09:10 Kamion Seveas: I would be happy with that, but you should check with jdub that
he doesn't mind
09:10 Seveas Kamion, will do
09:10 Seveas do we need a quorum vote for these 2 issue or can we continue?
09:10 Kamion (and mention that I recommend having more than one person who can create
ops, perhaps)
09:10 Kamion elmo, mako: any objections to Madpilot and ompaul as #ubuntu ops?
09:10 mako absolutely no objections
09:11 elmo no
09:11 Seveas ok, next
09:11 Seveas WikiLicensing
09:12 Seveas "ready to go" means that the E-mail will be sent soon?
09:13 Kamion hang on Seveas :)
09:13 Kyral lol
09:13 Kamion mako: did you ever get a chance to talk to that lawyer?
09:14 Kamion about the wikipedia PD-self template?
09:14 Kamion I rewrote the e-mail earlier, and would appreciate elmo and/or mako
eyeballing it
09:14 mako i think i asked greg and didn't hear back.. i should email SFLC or the
wikipedia lawyer who i met a couple weeks ago
09:14 Kamion http://wiki.ubuntu.com/WikiLicensing/Email
Someone make sure I am right on this, we are considering a CC-PD license
09:14 Kyral (I apologize for asking this almost every meeting, school is owning my
brain)
09:14 mako ok
there is still a technical task to be done in extracting those email
09:14 heno addresses from the launchpad and moin records. So in that sense we are
not ready to go
Kyral: more or less yes, see
09:15 Kamion http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/ubuntu-meeting-2006-01-24.html
to catch up
09:15 Seveas Kyral, yes, CC-PD with additional statements for countries where PD is
not allowed
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09:15 Kamion well, just PD, not CC-PD really
09:15 Kamion it hardly makes a difference for PD :)
09:15 Kyral Kamion: ty
09:15 mako yes
09:16 Kamion heno: is that a big task?
09:16 elmo it's a bit comma tastic, but looks ok on first read
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09:16 Kamion I tend to overuse commas, feel free to reword as necessary
09:16 heno Kamion: probably not for someone eho knows both systems. It's slightly
beyond me though, I'm affraid
09:16 Hobbsee morning all, sorry i'm late, i dont feel too well today
09:17 mako jean-baptiste soufron, the primary lawyer for wikipedia, should be online
soon and i can corner him
09:17 Kamion heno: do we have somebody who knows how to do both, or will it be a
coordination task?
09:17 elmo Kamion: it's, okay, I'm, not, really, fussed
=== Tonio_ [n=tonio@d80-170-207-118.cust.tele2.fr] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
09:17 Kamion mako: if you could let mdke know what the result of that is, that'd be
good
09:17 mako Kamion: ok
09:18 mako it looks fine to me
09:18 Kamion ok, I propose we let mdke coordinate the rest of this and move on, then
09:18 mako my major concerns before seem to be addressed
=== mako nods to Kamion
09:18 heno I think Gustavo or Adam should have no problem with it
=== LinuxJones [n=willy@hlfxns01bbh-142177197219.ns.aliant.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
09:18 Kamion elmo: my wife says "now if you'd written that it would only have had two
commas in it"
=== Kamion scratches his head
09:19 Kamion ok, betterwikidocs
09:19 Seveas BetterWikiDocs specification - can a server be made available to deploy
this? (mdke and hno73) <-- Doesn't sound like a CC issue to me, TB rather
09:19 mako neither really
09:19 elmo err, yeah, neither
09:19 Kamion I have to say I think it would be better to move the developer
documentation
09:19 Kamion than to move the user stuff
09:19 mako i'talk to mark/jane
09:19 Seveas kamion++
09:20 Kamion it's much easier to track down all developers and say "please use
developer.ubuntu.com now" or whatever
09:20 mako sure
09:20 Seveas the wiki has already moved several times
09:20 Kamion we had udu.wiki.ubuntu.com, I never really worked out why we merged
09:20 Seveas having a developer.ubuntu.com also attracts new developers ;)
09:21 heno Kamion: but there is also lots of stuff that is neither developer stuff
nor docs, but people's private pages and such
09:21 Kyral hehe
=== sorush20 [n=sorush20@82-43-184-143.cable.ubr07.newm.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined
#ubuntu-meeting
09:21 heno 'my experience with ubuntu' etc
09:21 sorush20 hi
09:21 sorush20 comuunity council people..
09:21 Seveas heno, then et the docteam fold them into the official docs, official docs
shouldn't be a wiki...
=== mdz [n=mdz@studiocity-motorola-bsr1-70-36-194-85.vnnyca.adelphia.net] has joined
#ubuntu-meeting
09:21 jjesse which is what is happening with h.u.com correct?
09:21 jjesse help.ubuntu.com
09:21 Seveas 'them' being the good documentation wikipage
09:21 Kamion heno: right, not sure I have a good answer for that
09:21 mdz I'm not particularly fussed either way about which wiki the specs go in,
so long as the links from Launchpad work
09:22 Burgwork Seveas, we are looking at a long term plan for better wiki docs. Moving
them is the first step of that
09:22 Kamion things start out as randomly-hacked-together pages, and move up to the
status of documentation
09:22 heno Kamion: but, yes moving the dev stuff would also help
09:22 Burgwork Seveas, as the doc team cannot agree on further steps, but we do agree on
moving it
09:22 Kamion mdz: and as long as we stop moving them at some point. :-)
09:22 heno if we had specs in a separate wiki we could structure it better
09:23 heno dapper/SpecName
09:23 Seveas Burgwork, then I think the plan should be worked out completely before we
start moving things around for no apparent reason
09:23 Kamion heno: also seems to me that the search problems could be addressed by
cleverer searching that knew how to search multiple sites
09:23 Kamion assuming they were both on the same machine, I guess
09:23 heno and then it would be obvious what generation it was
09:23 Burgwork Seveas, we can't agree on two wikis or one for the doc wiki
09:23 heno we could do that anyway of course
09:24 heno Kamion: the 'search problem' is that you get too many hits, not too few
let's assume we had a separate "official documentation wiki". what would
09:24 Kamion the process be for migrating a page somebody hacked together to the doc
wiki?
09:24 Burgwork Kamion, that is the part under contention
09:24 Kamion heno: I'm referring to "users having to search more than one place" in
BetterWikiDocs
09:25 heno they would be encouraged to start it there in the first place
09:25 heno (sounds unrealistic actually)
09:25 Seveas heno, great, so another wiki filled with half-baked pages....
09:25 heno that would clearly work better for devs
09:25 jjesse the "official" docs would have to be editable (if that's a word) by only
wiki team members
09:25 Kamion yeah, that doesn't sound overly plausible to me I must say
09:25 Burgwork Seveas, I disagree
09:25 Kamion jjesse: which will exclude a lot of contributors
09:26 robotgeek jjesse: which kind beats the point of a wiki
09:26 Kamion people start out editing a few pages of the wiki and *then* become wiki
team members
09:26 Kamion maybe
09:26 jjesse but if the "official" docs are moved from the more generic docs
09:26 mako why don't we just have pages with categories
=== HiddenWolf [n=HiddenWo@136.55.dynamic.phpg.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
09:26 jjesse then they can be better maintained
09:26 Seveas mako++
09:26 mako with articles marked as good
well look at it as wiki --> docs so in the wiki it is a $factoid if it
09:26 ompaul makes it to docs or there is a better existing doc then the wiki page
gets a reference to the other page at the top and a log of visits but
that is all too much for here
09:26 Seveas but then we need people who organize that
09:26 mako wikipedia has 1,000,000 articles
09:26 mako or near that in english
09:27 Kamion and most of the wikipedia articles I ever actually hit in practice are
really good
09:27 Burgwork mostly the good articles are marked by not having CategoryCleanup on them
09:27 mako and it's prefectly readable because they have many categories
09:27 ompaul what does wiki.ubuntu have in it?
09:27 mako Kamion: yes, but they also have articles marked as "good" and "featured"
09:27 Burgwork ompaul, everything, that is the problem
09:27 Kamion mako: yeah
09:27 ompaul Burgwork, no numbers
09:27 mako Kamion: and if you limit your search to those, you'll get good stuff
09:27 mako the point is, that there's no need to create seperate wikis
09:27 ompaul Burgwork, if you measure it you can do something with it
09:27 heno using categories doesn't solve the search problem
09:27 mako you may really want EVERYTHING on a topic
09:27 Burgwork we still have the issue of seperation of help content
09:27 mako heno: it does if you can limit your search to within a particular
category
09:27 Seveas categories and 'good/bad/needs work' tags will help
09:27 Kamion heno: it does if you make the search exclude CategoryCleanup by default
09:27 Kamion e.g.
09:28 Burgwork people simply don't go to wiki.ubuntu.com for help
09:28 heno unless we improved the search to include/exclude certain pages
09:28 mako Burgwork: what makes you think that having they'll go to the new split
set of wikis then?
09:28 Burgwork Kamion, but I want my searches to include it
09:28 jjesse Burgwork: i disagree
09:28 Kamion Burgwork: --> "by default" <--
09:28 Mithrandir Burgwork: "default"
09:28 heno right, but that requires development
09:28 Kyral most of our "profile" pages also on are the Wiki yes?
09:28 jjesse Burgwork: i start at w.u.c and then do a google search if i can't find it
09:28 mako heno: that is precisely what i'm suggesting
09:28 lucas I'd prefer to have a CategoryUserDoc rather than a CategoryCleanup (means
pages would be out by default)
09:28 Kamion heno: I don't think we can get away from that - it's not a trivial
problem
09:28 Burgwork Kamion, I was pointing out that there are two many use cases for the main
wiki
09:29 Burgwork s/two/too
09:29 heno mako: I think that would be good
09:29 Seveas Kyral, they (should) have "CategoryHomepage", easy to filter too
the time necessary to have moin have a search that is restricted by
09:29 mako categories is probably not significantly less than the time needed to
maintain a farm of wikis
09:29 heno but a separate spec perhaps
09:29 Kamion Burgwork: dunno, I'm beginning to think that's a feature
09:29 Burgwork Kamion, no it is not when you run across a spec when you want help
09:29 Kamion Burgwork: that's a search problem
09:29 Mithrandir mako: you'd want cross-wiki search, though.
09:29 mako specs *should* be marked as specs
09:29 mako and docs should be marked as docs
09:29 Burgwork then we need to be ruthless about moving specs under a main spec page
09:29 mako and there should be a prominent link to a doc only search
09:30 Burgwork so that the link would be wiki.ubuntu.com/Spec/Blah
09:30 mako Burgwork: sure
09:30 jjesse the doc team then should be the one always cleaning up the wiki or
expected to keep the wiki clean
Burgwork: it's a feature that, when we have a new project that needs wiki
09:30 Kamion pages, it can just start rather than having to get a new wiki domain set
up
09:30 Kamion Burgwork: that would be fine
09:30 heno splitting it up also helps solve the scaling problem though
09:30 mako Burgwork: we'd have be ruthless about moving them off the wiki in the
alternative situation
09:30 Burgwork still ooks like a hack to me
09:30 Kamion we'd have to go through and fix up links from launchpad
09:30 Kamion Burgwork: it's what categories are FOR. :-)
09:30 mako well, why not in-text categories
09:30 mako like WP
09:30 heno which is that the wiki will eventually outgrow the hardware
09:31 mako we could just have a {{spec}} tag or something
09:31 heno elmo: ^ ?
09:31 Kamion heno: I don't think developer specifications are going to be the cause of
that
09:31 Burgwork Kamion, yes, but what does a CategoryNetworking do on the main wiki?
specs? docs?
09:31 mako the way they're implemented doesn't really matter
09:31 Burgwork do you see the issue?
09:31 Kamion Burgwork: no
09:31 Kamion Burgwork: perhaps you could explain better?
09:31 mako Burgwork: both
09:31 Burgwork mako, that is much much worse
09:31 mako Burgwork: you can belong to CategoryNetworking and CategorySpec
09:31 robotgeek i am sure the search can be hacked to exclude specs, provided they are
all in one Category
09:32 elmo heno: I don't think that's a good reason _by itself_ to split stuff up,
we've plenty of avenues to explore to scale stuff up before going there
09:32 Burgwork but then those that want to search specs are screwed
09:32 Kamion I don't see a lot of value of a spec having any other category
09:32 robotgeek with an option to search advanced?
09:32 heno elmo: ok, thanks
09:32 Burgwork I do
09:32 Kamion there aren't enough of them for that, and they're generally clearly named
09:32 ompaul search should not discriminate
09:32 mako alright
09:32 Burgwork I want to see all networkign specs
09:32 mako Kamion: ok
09:32 Burgwork another major issue is time by doc team members cleaning non-dcos on the
wiki
09:32 Burgwork I have easily spent 20 plus hours doing so
09:32 Kamion specs are the responsibility of the development team
09:33 Burgwork if the wiki was split, I wouldn't have to do any of those
09:33 mako Burgwork: you're trading a complex searching problem for a fragmentation
problem
09:33 Kamion the wiki team should feel free to punt those to us
=== mdke_ [n=matt@ubuntu/member/mdke] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
09:33 Kamion you don't have to do them *now* - you can tell development to sort it out
=== sistpoty [n=sistpoty@ubuntu/member/sistpoty] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
09:33 mdke_ evening, sorry for lateness
09:33 Kamion if everyone does their own specs it doesn't take long to do whatever it
is
09:33 Burgwork realistically, that is not an option
09:33 Kamion why not?
09:34 Kamion well, s/tell/ask/, but anyway
=== Madpilot [n=bburger@ubuntu/member/madpilot] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
09:34 Burgwork because often the development team does page editing/moving/creation
without a holistic view
09:34 Burgwork and that is not their fault
09:34 Madpilot hi everyone
09:34 Kamion you can have the holistic view and ask other people to do the actual
shuffling of their own specs
09:34 Burgwork ie, they create a page that causes the doc team grief, without even
knowing about it
09:34 Kamion if you take work on yourself, you can't blame other people for you doing
all the work :)
09:35 Kamion the doc team has, to my knowledge, never communicated those issues to the
development team
09:35 Burgwork yes, I have not done so
09:35 Kamion I suggest doing so :)
09:35 Kamion then it will be less likely to be a problem in future
09:35 Burgwork there is another problem, that of recent changes
09:35 mako Burgwork: some of these problems can be solved with education :)
09:35 mako don't use a technical solution to a social problem
09:36 Kamion RecentChanges is mostly used by wiki contributors, I'm guessing
it is currently very difficult to seperate docs out from non-docs when
09:36 Burgwork looking at what has changed. Which means a person realisitically has to
look at all changes
09:36 Kamion now that sounds like something amenable to a technical solution ...
=== mako nods Kamion
09:36 Mithrandir enhance the recentchanges page by putting the category there too, then.
=== Burgwork raises Mediawiki
09:36 mako Burgwork: what about it?
09:37 Burgwork mediawiki is designed for presentation wikis, ala documentation and
encyclopedias
09:37 sorush20 where is the adgenda
09:37 mdke is this a general discussion of the BetterWikiDocs spec?
09:37 mako sorush20: in the topic
It is hard to differentiate docs from non-docs. Good docs from bad docs,
09:37 HiddenWolf and doc's don't have a mandatory "applies to $version" thing, so it is
trial and error to figure out if it'll work a lot of the time.
09:37 Burgwork clear seperation of talk and article, watchlists, internal wiki
communication
09:37 heno mdke: I emailed you a transcript so far
09:37 mako HiddenWolf: the docteam can tag docs as "notable" if you'd like
09:38 mako or with version information
09:38 Burgwork for instance, if someone edits a page in our wiki, I have no way of
communicating with them without knowing their email
09:38 mdke heno, ok thanks
09:38 mako Burgwork: what is the MW funcionatliy you are missing here?
09:38 mako Burgwork: talk pages?
09:38 ompaul sorush20, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda
09:38 Burgwork mako, internal wiki communication via user talk pages
mako: I'm not much of a guru on the wiki, but a good way to seperate good
09:39 HiddenWolf docs from bad docs and figure out if it'll work on your version would
really help.
09:39 Burgwork mako, some of which can be hacked into our wiki, but some cannot easily
09:39 heno Burgwork: it should be fairly easy to set up better provision for talk
pages
09:39 Madpilot HiddenWolf: the versioning thing is a writing problem, not as much a
technical issue, AFAIK
09:39 mdke heno, ok, looks like discussion has just spiralled out off topic :(
09:39 mako Burgwork: so *user* talk pages
09:39 heno we could even use the comment macro
09:40 sorush20 who is the meeting leader?
09:40 mako Burgwork: i've never found user talk pages hugely useful in WP personally
09:40 Burgwork mako, heno, Kamion lets move on
09:40 mako sorush20: myself, kamion and elmo are the council members
09:40 Burgwork heno, can you and I chat about what I would like out of our wiki after
the meeting?
09:40 Burgwork mako, Kamion this spec needs further work before being brough back before
the CC
09:41 Kamion yeah, I agree
=== mako nods to Burgwork
09:41 Seveas This is going way beyond CC territory...
Burgwork: I have no idea how the mediawiki thingy works, but I know that
09:41 Mithrandir if you tried to communicate with me through editing some wiki page, you'd
fail, unless it gets sent to me by email or tells me on IRC. How does
the usertalk thingy work in mediawiki?
09:41 Kamion it would be nice if we could be presented with a decision to make, more
than an open-ended discussion :)
09:41 heno Burgwork: sure, but perhaps we should do it on a mailing list so others
can participate
09:41 mdke Kamion, the topic was about the server
09:41 Kamion true
09:41 mako FWIW, it's an interesting discussion :)
09:41 Burgwork heno, ok
09:41 Kamion elmo: can you answer that much (unless you did so already and I missed
it) and we can move on?
09:42 Kamion as in, assuming it were determined to be worthwhile
09:42 mdke :-(
09:42 sorush20 have you decied to have more ops in the ubuntu channels?
09:42 elmo phone, brb
09:42 Seveas sorush20, yes, that has been earlier on the agenda
09:43 Seveas ok, let's move on then, elmo can answer when whe gets back :-)
09:43 Seveas robotgeek, tepsipakki and Hobbsee are the new member candidates
09:43 Seveas robotgeek, give us your 3-line summary please
=== robotgeek is Venkat Raghavan
09:43 mako brilliant
I am VenkatRaghavan. I currently live in New Jersey (moved from Texas 2
09:43 robotgeek days ago!), though originally from Hyderabad, India. Been using Ubuntu
since the Hoary release. Yes, I dumped OS X for Ubuntu!
I am a member of NewUserMentors, WikiTeam and the Kubuntu Team. I have
done lot of irc support in the past (sometimes more than 10 hours a
09:44 robotgeek day!), and in the recent months started getting involved in the
Documentation work. More details on my wiki page at
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/VenkatRaghavan
In the immediate future, I want to make sure Kubuntu Desktop Guide is
complete in time for Dapper. I also want to more involve myself more in
09:44 robotgeek the Documentation Team activities. Since I am an Engineer by profession,
I want to improve my packaging skills so that I may package to help the
Motu Science Team.
09:44 robotgeek :)
09:44 jjesse robotgeek has been working hard and doing a great job on the kubuntu
desktop guide
09:44 Seveas robotgeek gets several \o/ from me for IRC work
09:44 jjesse he's picked up a project that was sitting still
09:44 Seveas he's very active
09:44 jpatrick Seveas: ++
09:44 mdke robotgeek is already a great member of the documentation team, he's
contributed loads of wiki pages and good documentation, as jjesse says
09:44 nalioth robotgeek is quite helpful on the irc channels
=== Burgwork can also vouch for robotgeek
=== Kyral too
=== irvin too!
=== manicka too
=== Madpilot likewise
09:45 robotgeek wow
09:45 mako yeah, wow
=== ompaul says he is top guy
09:45 Kyral basically if you say no, you have a lot of angry people now ;P
09:45 Madpilot robotgeek: the whole cheering section has come out :P
09:45 sorush20 robotgeek: has helped me too alot
09:46 Hobbsee hehe doesnt seem like i need to say anything
09:46 Riddell I support robotgeek, he's doing good work on the kubuntu desktop guide
09:46 jpatrick I've seen him a lot on irc
09:46 Kyral He's helpful in #ubuntu, he has done good work with EasyUbuntu
09:47 Kyral and he's kept me from losing it a couple ttimes (big job lol)
09:47 ompaul his other work has saved me and others plenty of man hours
09:47 ompaul s/man/person/
09:47 ompaul forgive the aged
=== robotgeek waits, anxiously
09:48 manicka his work on the new wifi wiki page is outstanding
09:48 Kamion looks like sustained contribution to me and there seems to be a fair bit
of wiki work there
09:48 Seveas robotgeek, probably mako, Kamion and elmo are now reading your wikipage,
LP profile etc
09:48 Kamion robotgeek: what's happening with EasyUbuntu at the moment?
09:49 LaserJock robotgeek is active in the docteam and has also expressed interest in
doing some packaging for MOTU Science
09:49 Kyral LaserJock: he has? *blink*
09:49 robotgeek Kamion: fixing a few remaining bugs, i'm quite new to python
09:49 Kyral yah you guys are still waiting for me to package it no? :/
09:49 sorush20 meetings are not as fast as I would expect them to be
09:49 mako agreed
09:50 Kamion robotgeek: well, I'm more asking what the current state is from the
perspective of somebody who knows nothing about it
09:50 LaserJock sorry, got some lag :(
09:50 mako looks good so far
09:50 Kamion last I heard was when the automatix/forums stuff came up here
09:50 Kamion which probably wasn't the best advert :)
09:50 robotgeek Kamion: it works well, it needs to be packaged in a deb format. Kyral is
helping
09:51 mako yeah, this is good stuff
09:51 Seveas Kamion, easyubuntu is nothing like automatix fortunatel
09:51 mako robotgeek: how long have you been involved?
09:51 robotgeek mako: for about 5+ months now
09:51 nalioth Kamion: robotgeek was involved in easybreezy, a fork of automatix. the
project has since merged back with easyubuntu (the original)
09:51 mako great
09:51 mako well, i'm happy with membership
09:51 sorush20 I find automatix to work better than easy ubuntu..
09:51 Seveas sorush20, -ETOPIC
09:51 Kyral haha, beat me to it Seveas
09:52 _jason wait, I can say robotgeek is awesome too :) He's always on irc and
working hard on easyubuntu
09:52 Kamion sorush20: ... this is why meetings take ages
=== Hirion [n=hirion@draugr.de] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
09:52 robotgeek thanks _jason :)
09:52 Kamion I'm also happy with membership
09:53 Seveas did elmo return already?
09:54 Seveas if not, should we move on and let him catch up later?
09:54 elmo sorry, back
09:54 Seveas ah, cool
=== LaserJoc1 [n=mantha@lambda.chem.unr.edu] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
09:54 elmo move on, I'll catch up
09:54 Seveas ok
09:54 Seveas next up: tepsipakki
=== tepsipakki is Timo Aaltonen
09:55 Seveas idle tim 40 minutes, so he could be around
09:55 Seveas ah
09:55 tepsipakki let me get organized ;)
I'm an UNIX administrator working part time for the Computing Centre of
Helsinki University of Technology in Finland. Current work involves
09:55 tepsipakki administering 200+ Linux (Debian Sarge atm) workstations and some
Tru64-UNIX servers. When not working, I'm trying to finish my master's
degree (major: semiconductors and materials of electronics).
Interests include GNOME, NFSv4, installer, sysadmin tools etc. I've made
09:55 tepsipakki some patches here and there, most of it is documented on my wikipage:
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TimoAaltonen
09:55 Kamion I've been working off and on with tepsipakki on various automatic
installation issues for some time
09:56 Kamion he's more willing than most to dive in and get his hands dirty, and has
been very useful at nagging me to follow up on things
09:56 Kyral Jeez, where were you guys when I was installing Ubuntu on 20 lab
computers...
09:56 Kyral ;P
09:56 tepsipakki =)
09:56 tepsipakki I have a system that only needs to be documented somewhere
09:56 Hobbsee Kyral: off at the pub, why do you ask? :P
09:56 Seveas Hobbsee, Kyral: please stick to the topic
09:56 Kyral sorry...
09:56 Hobbsee sorry
09:57 Kamion ... so I'm more than happy with tepsipakki for membership
09:57 mako yes.. tepsipakki is great by me
09:57 Kamion tepsipakki: (incidentally lamont's looking at getting NFSv4 support into
mount, and we may get it in before feature freeze with any luck)
09:58 elmo ack robotgeek
09:58 mdke well done robotgeek
09:58 Seveas elmo, thanks
09:58 tepsipakki Kamion: yes, I just received info that a new version of util-linux is in
sid now
09:58 Seveas welcome robotgeek!
09:58 robotgeek thanks all!
WRT server, heno can always have a server if he asks for it, but given
09:58 elmo this isn't exactly uncontentious, I'd like some higher power sign in
before any migration off of the main wiki happens
09:58 irvin congrats robotgeek... it's about time ;-)
09:58 jpatrick congrats robotgeek
09:58 robotgeek Riddell: that was fast :)
09:59 elmo ack tepsipakki too
09:59 mdke well done tepsipakki
09:59 Kyral welldone :D
09:59 elmo (tho I'm somewhat disappointed you're not the dovecot author. same
firstname and nationality. close. but not.)
09:59 lamont Kamion: nfsv4 change was uploaded to debian just after dinstall today,
should be syncable tomorrow
09:59 Seveas welcome abourd tepsipakki
09:59 tepsipakki gee, thanks! <blush>
10:00 Seveas (you got approved really fast, amazing!)
10:00 Seveas last candidate: Hobbsee (Sarah Hobbs)
10:00 Hobbsee hey
10:00 Seveas Hobbsee, please give us the 3-liner
I am Sarah Hobbs, a university student in Sydney, Australia, doing a
10:00 Hobbsee Bachelor of Technology in Optoelectronics. I've been using linux since
june 2005, first Ubuntu, and then Kubuntu from that time onwards, usually
running a tripple boot machine of XP, kubuntu breezy and kubuntu dapper.
I'm a member of the kubuntu team, am involved in moderating and providing
10:00 Hobbsee support in IRC, and involved in bug writing/fixing and some
packaging. My Wiki Page is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Hobbsee
In the future, I want to learn more about packaging, so I can contribute
10:00 Hobbsee more to the ubuntu community, in particular the kubuntu section, and
possibly the MOTU-science section as well. I also want to continue on
with the IRC support.
10:00 Hobbsee darn copy key doesnt work as fast as i'd like it to :P
=== benje_ [n=benje@cereli-01.cereli.org] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
=== robotgeek can vouch for irc support!
=== mdke goes to bed, good night everyone
=== mdke [n=matt@ubuntu/member/mdke] has left #ubuntu-meeting []
10:01 dholbach Hobbsee: I hope to see you in the MOTU team soon! :)
10:01 nalioth Hobbsee: is quite knowledgable and helpful to many in irc
10:01 Hobbsee dholbach: i hope so too!
=== jpatrick can vouch for IRC and packages!
10:02 Riddell I support Hobbsee's membership, she's done some good bug work and
#kubuntu operator
10:02 mako Hobbsee: how long have you been contributing?
10:02 Kamion ah, so you're part of the reason the kubuntu team manage to get Flight
CDs tested so quickly :)
10:02 elmo Kamion: stop trying to deflect the blame for the bandwidth damage
10:03 Hobbsee mako: on irc, since around...*thinks* - probably a couple of months
before breezy was released
10:03 elmo ;P
10:03 Hobbsee and packaging only in the last couple of months
10:04 Riddell she first appeared on #kubuntu-devel 2005-10-08, was on #kubuntu few a
few months before that
10:04 sorush20 I don't think hobbsee has done as much as the other two members..
=== HiddenWolf [n=HiddenWo@136.55.dynamic.phpg.net] has left #ubuntu-meeting []
10:04 Seveas sorush20, that's irrelevant
10:04 Kamion that does seem to be true, but OTOH it looks like fairly good going
10:05 mako the criteria is significant and sustained
=== robotgeek remembers Hobbsee from way back, she was an op before I got kubuntu
10:05 mako contributins.. different people have different amounts of time to give
10:05 Kamion and packaging work is valuable
=== Kyral nods
10:05 elmo "sudo cp -i --reply=no" *boggle*
10:05 elmo what's the point of that, JOOI?@
10:06 Kamion elmo: where's that?
10:06 Kyral .....elmo, mischan?
10:06 sistpoty Hobbsee has some packages on revu, and iirc, what I've seen in packaging
is promising... and Hobbsee is often around in -motu
10:06 LaserJoc1 sistpoty++
10:06 jpatrick Hobbsee has a good bug buster too
10:07 jpatrick I think she has a record for Kubuntu bugs
=== Hobbsee waits nervously
10:08 elmo https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FirefoxNewVersion
10:08 Seveas Hobbsee, be patient
10:08 elmo no idea if Hobbsee added that, it just jumped out at me
elmo: i did some work on that page a while ago - i havent recently,
10:09 Hobbsee because i havent been usign that version of firefox, using 1.5 on dapper
from the repositories
10:09 Hobbsee s/usign/using
10:09 Kamion testimonials from Riddell/jpatrick and others are good for me if they
reckon she's been doing good bug and packaging work
10:09 sorush20 I think she should be allowed to be a member..
10:09 elmo wow there are some interesting usernames in the wiki
10:09 Kamion elmo: the one I suspect you're looking at is a troll
10:10 mako Kamion: ?
10:10 Kyral check the changes log
10:10 Kamion mako: one "Niggerplease" editing FirefoxNewVersion
10:10 sorush20 Hobbsee: how are you aiming to contribute to the opensource world after
your degree?
10:10 mako just found it
10:11 mako alright, i
10:11 Riddell sorush20: ? she's only about to start...
10:11 mako i'm happy with Hobbsee for membership
10:11 Seveas that's one down, two to go
10:11 Hobbsee sorush20: probably doing some more packages, more IRC - basically
continuing what i've already started
10:11 elmo ack
10:12 sorush20 I have noticed that there are a lot of howto's been done on wifi by all
the new members..
10:12 Kamion oh, is anyone processing the launchpad tweaking for new members?
10:12 Kamion if not I'll do it
10:12 Seveas sorush20, tbh: that is bad news, it means wireless is still difficult
10:13 mako Kamion: i'll do it
10:13 Kamion mako: thanks
10:13 Seveas Kamion, what's your 'verdict' about Hobbsee?
10:13 Hobbsee Seveas: indeed it is - that's one thing i'd love to change
10:13 sorush20 maybe the three new members should network together to make one unified
document.. to make things less confusing..
10:13 Kamion Seveas: 21:09 < Kamion> testimonials from Riddell/jpatrick and others are
good for me if they reckon she's been doing good bug and packaging work
10:13 Seveas Hobbsee, contribute to NetworkManager then
10:13 Kamion that's an ack if it wasn't clear
10:13 Seveas Kamion, it is, I just missed it
10:13 Seveas Hobbsee, welcome aboard!
10:14 Hobbsee thankyou so much!
10:14 nalioth Hobbsee: robotgeek: welcome!
10:14 Hobbsee :D
10:14 Kamion Hobbsee: (do test out network-manager in dapper and see if it works for
you, if you haven't already)
10:14 LaserJoc1 congrats Hobbsee
10:14 Kamion (and others)
10:14 Seveas nalioth, don't forget tepsipakki
10:14 Hobbsee Kamion: will do, but i use kde
10:14 nalioth tepsipakki: welcome to the next level
10:14 dholbach welcome Hobbsee, robotgeek and tepsipakki
10:14 Kamion ah, there's a kde equivalent I believe but I don't know the name
10:14 Riddell knetworkmanager :)
10:14 sorush20 Hobbsee: we need more women in Ubuntu
10:14 Hobbsee Kamion: knetworkmanager, from cvs, which i havent figured out yet
10:14 Riddell (but it requires a CVS netwok-manager)
10:14 Kamion OK. Any other business?
10:15 Seveas Time and date of next meeting
10:15 Kamion propose 12:00 two weeks time
10:15 Kyral as always...
10:15 Seveas please decide now instead of one-day notice
10:15 Kamion UTC
10:15 Seveas fine to me
10:15 tepsipakki Hobbsee: congrats, and good luck with your studies (I've done some
microfabrication courses :)
10:15 Kyral ....ick...thats like 0700 my time
10:15 elmo that's middle of the UI sprint
10:15 Kyral oh well
10:15 mako wait..
10:15 Seveas will sabdfl be available?
10:15 elmo dunno who's going to it
10:15 mako let me check that time
10:15 Hobbsee tepsipakki: thankyou, you too :)
10:15 tepsipakki robotgeek: congrats to you too :)
10:15 mako that should be fine
10:15 robotgeek thanks tepsipakki ! you too!
10:16 Kamion oh, bloody UI sprint - I'm scheduled to go to it, yes
10:16 tepsipakki and once more thanks to all!
10:16 mako robotgeek, tepsipakki, Hobbsee: i've approved your membership in LP
10:16 Kamion if you can do it without me that week that would be good
10:16 Hobbsee mako: thankyou!
10:16 elmo Kamion: sabdfl will be there too ...
10:16 robotgeek thanks mako
10:16 elmo (won't he?)
10:16 tepsipakki mako: rock!
10:16 Kamion hmm, guess he would want to be
10:16 mako it's been a few meetings
10:16 mako with all the traveling
10:16 Seveas indeed
10:16 Kamion we could force minions to deliver us lunch
10:16 mako quick, while he's aweay
10:17 Kyral lol
10:17 mako lets pass some outrageous new rule
10:17 Seveas he wants to bring up the complaint about #ubuntu - has anybody already
heard more about that? mako/kamion?
10:17 Kamion ok, I'll send mail to community-council@ proposing that time and let him
respond
10:17 elmo mako: how about we depose him?
10:17 Kyral lol
10:17 mako elmo: if he never comes to meetings, that's hardly necessary ;)
10:17 Kyral All Members get $1 a day pay from Canonical lol
10:17 Kamion we'll make it provisionally 1200 on 7 March until then
10:17 jpatrick cool
10:18 mako Kamion: good
10:18 Kamion Seveas: not apart from that mail chain
10:18 nalioth Kyral: is that retroactice to date of membership? :P
10:18 Kyral lol
10:18 mako elmo: and plus, i definitely don't want his job :)
10:18 Seveas Kamion, ok, neither have I apart from some supicions from the community
10:18 Kyral what complaint against #ubuntu btw?
10:19 sorush20 Kyral really?
10:19 Seveas Kyral, it'll come up at the next meeting
10:19 mako i'll leave him to suits and press releases and the pretty girls in
karaoke bars
10:19 Kyral Seveas: okay
10:19 Kamion Kyral: alleged overenthusiasm about banning people for mention of
automatix
10:19 Seveas mako, pubcon!
10:19 Kyral oyy....that is annoying
10:19 sorush20 Kyral: is that USD?
10:19 mako yes..
10:19 Kamion ok, sounds like we're done here
10:19 Kamion going
10:19 mako i'd (wishfully perhaps) assumed that was dealt with
10:19 Kamion going
10:19 Kamion gone
=== Kyral gets back to study
10:19 mako yeah, i should work too
10:20 mako paper deadline in <11hours
10:20 mako need to pretend i'm an academic
10:20 Kamion mako: sadly I think probably not, we'll find out now+2weeks then?
10:20 Kyral mako: I suspect it will turn into something like the Emacs vs. Vi Holy
War
=== robotgeek too, avait patches!
10:20 mako Kyral: i don't think so
=== Kyral shrugs
10:20 mako because the issue is not whether the software is any good
10:20 mako it's completely inconsequential
10:20 mako but anywya
10:20 Kyral yah
10:20 mako lets not have that conversation now
10:20 Kyral sorry for mentioning
10:21 mako my fault too :)
10:21 Seveas see you all next time!
10:21 mako thanks everyone for comingMeetingLogs/CC_2006-02-21 (last edited 2008-08-06 16:30:25 by localhost)