DapperDev_2005-12-15
08:59 pitti Hi
09:00 JaneW hello
09:00 dholbach hi
09:00 jbailey *yawn*
09:00 doko good morning
09:00 JaneW jbailey: what's the time there?
09:00 jbailey 03h00
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09:00 JaneW ouch
09:00 daniels kamion's our glorious leader today, innit?
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09:01 JaneW yup
09:01 JaneW so should be swift and to the point \0/
09:01 pitti jbailey: you would certainly agree to shifting the whole cycle 3 hours backwards, right? :)
09:01 daniels JaneW: you appear to have an overly big head ;)
09:01 daniels pitti: no way man, that means I get meetings at 0400
09:02 jbailey pitti: I don't see how it would matter. It would just make the next one 4am, wouldn't it?
09:02 jbailey Or is it a 6 hours rotation?
09:02 JaneW it was 4am for me last week :P
09:02 JaneW is kamion here yet?
09:02 doko daniels: you don't have meetings at 4am? we should change that ;-P
09:02 jbailey pitti: My goal is to go out dancing on these nights and do my update from my 770 at some access point.
09:02 doko Kamion has vacations?
09:03 infinity Yes.
09:03 daniels doko: no tany more I don't
09:03 infinity And if you try to take them away from him, he WILL hurt you.
09:03 daniels jbailey: six-hour rotation
09:03 pitti jbailey: great idea
09:03 Mithrandir infinity: he was going to show up today for the meeting, AIUI.
09:03 JaneW I shall start with my best BenC impersonation...
09:04 ogra *yawn*
09:04 JaneW BenC Hey. I don't think I'm going to be able to stay awake another 1.5 hours
09:04 JaneW BenC here's my status:
09:04 JaneW BenC * Major work this past week: Processed over 400 bugs on the kernel (all of them), closing ~175 (either by fixing, confirming they were fixed or closing because of inactivity). Needed this to be done before Flight 2 so that it was easier to process incoming bug reports.
09:04 JaneW BenC * testing-server-hardware: Not started: Need to begin putting together the test suite.
09:04 JaneW BenC * preventing-hardware-support-regressions: BLOCKED: Automated build system is under development. However, the free space on concordia is not stable enough to use (fluctuates daily). Current i386 build environment takes 3+Gigs (build+git-repo+ccache).
09:04 JaneW BenC * ubuntu-server-kernel: In progress: Mostly done. Just need to add a server target for non-i386 architectures. These are much more simplistic than than the i386 kernels. Should be included with the next kernel upload (2.6.15-9.11).
09:04 JaneW everyone happy with that?
09:05 infinity Ecstatic.
09:05 JaneW daniels: you want me to cut and paste you too?
09:05 daniels yeah :)
09:05 daniels ta
09:06 JaneW daniels: this week: xorg rc3, fix a few FTBFSes, chase down bizzare xorg-server bug that makes it unusable on i810, start on making xserver-xorg maintainer scripts more clear, fix xvfb bugs, take the plunge and upgrade to udev new world order
09:06 JaneW next week: leave tomorrow, fix xorg-server harder, continue on making scripts clear
09:06 JaneW x-roadmap: keep on truckin'
09:06 JaneW blocked: none
09:06 JaneW xorg-server bug -- core server bug that renders the whole thing unusable, and the inbuilt backtrace stuff doesn't give any BT at all, and gdb hangs when I attempt to attach to it. \o/
09:06 JaneW x-raodmap: Mostly there, just tracking continued version updates. keep on truckin'
09:06 daniels yeah, so that makes the server a no-go for now. i'm trying to track it down with the other upstream guys at the moment.
09:06 JaneW I know, why don;t I just do the meeting on my own!
09:06 infinity JaneW : Sure, I'll /msg you my update. :)
09:06 daniels release roadmap for xorg has us doing rc4 ... right now, actually, otherwise known as 'rc seriously'.
09:07 JaneW daniels: that sounds pretty bad, is there a resolution in sight?
09:07 doko daniels: do you know the status of the name sync of the gl/glu packages in unstable/dapper?
09:07 daniels so we should be done with that fairly soon. so hopefully the server will be fixed, which will fix a whole lot of bugs people are currently blaming on nautilus, and then I can get to fixing the scripts.
09:07 daniels JaneW: yeah, it's only within the last two weeks, so we've got a fairly small target in terms of finding the culprit.
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09:07 JaneW daniels: ok good
09:07 infinity daniels : Oh, also, xserver-common needs to get built from somewhere other than xorg sources. The core -> common dep was stuck in as a stopgap because the world broke without it.
09:08 JaneW side-track are ALL merges done yet?
09:08 daniels doko: i'm working with gravity, the general view is that we'll do a, er, nmu of mesa sooner rather than later.
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09:08 daniels infinity: xserver-common will cease to exist the next time I upload xorg. what's the actual issue? missing /etc/X11/X?
09:08 doko daniels: thanks!
09:08 JaneW ok dholbach
09:08 infinity daniels : Missing X binary, missing dexconf.
09:08 dholbach merges: http://tinyurl.com/dgvf2
09:09 dholbach * inclusion-of-docs: uploaded an improved update to dapper - breezy-update yet to come
09:09 dholbach * formal-test-plans: some clarification on the pages, is wiki/Testing now - more Tests and more Media tests to come (Media meeting today)
09:09 dholbach * this week done: gnome 2.13.3, bugs
09:09 dholbach * this week to come: more bugs, {motu,media,desktop} team meeting, talk at umeet.uninet.edu
09:09 dholbach * next week: bug day, more bugs, merges?
09:09 infinity daniels : The latter being particularly crucial, the former breaking GDM's default config.
09:09 JaneW dholbach: thanks
09:09 daniels infinity: *shrug*, xserver-xorg should dep it for dexconf and xorg-common should dep it for the symlink. but dexconf is moving over to xserver-xorg anyway.
09:09 JaneW doko
09:09 doko this week:
09:09 doko - toolchain-roadmap: minor updates (binutils, gcj-4.1), amd64-biarch (still blocked)
09:09 doko - toolchain-dapper+1: blocked by preparation of wanna-build and buildd infrastructure (currently ongoing)
09:09 doko - openoffice.org: support work
09:09 doko - merges: doing more merges not on the list; we don't have merge reports where debian and ubuntu have different tarballs (will be addressed before next merge before UVF (Keybuk)).
09:09 doko next week:
09:09 doko - python-roadmap: python-central update (delayed again)
09:10 JaneW doko: openoffcie is listed as proposed - is it a Dapper Goal?
09:10 JaneW doko: and java roadmap is still not approved...
09:11 doko JaneW: I hope it is, but that spec is informational anyway. I'll prepare separate topics for the next report
09:11 JaneW but it's low priority
09:11 JaneW doko: ok thanks
09:11 mvo JaneW: can I go last please? I mixed up times
09:11 JaneW mvo: sure
09:11 daniels (s/xorg-common/xserver-xorg-core/ in my last sentence. headdesk.)
09:12 JaneW ok fabbione : * server-candy: announce is out, community is growing fast. md5sum
09:12 JaneW client did his first run yesterday. Upload to the archive will happen
09:12 JaneW relatively soon. It is blocked by a couple of bugs, one missing feature
09:12 JaneW and admins to create the server side. Wrote the PostfixCandy spec for
09:12 JaneW mdz but it looks like not doable. /etc in RCS has been discussed with
09:12 JaneW bzr guy. New spec wrote to address the remaining issues.
09:12 JaneW * ubuntu-cluster: no progress this week. Still needs testing! People
09:12 JaneW should help a bit here.
09:12 JaneW * probe-for-root-filesystem: no progress this week.
09:12 JaneW * boot-from-usb: blocked by probe-for-root-filesystem.
09:12 JaneW * merges: zlib - still pending libc6-i386-dev, one minor pending but
09:12 JaneW it's no hurry at all.
09:12 JaneW * last week: a lot of md5sum client and server-candy work, prepared for
09:12 JaneW today's talk.
09:12 JaneW * next week: keep going server-candy full speed. kernel security.
09:12 JaneW hopefully finish some cluster tests and start working on new cluster
09:12 JaneW crack. Friday 16th i will start a bit later than usual but i will pick
09:12 JaneW up the hours the same day.
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09:13 infinity JaneW : Me next?
09:13 JaneW infinity: hit it
09:13 infinity last week:
09:13 infinity - Did almost nothing I said I'd do last week, instead concentrating on making sure *-desktop and *-live were installable, so we could build CDs, getting linux-restricted-modules into shape, as well as other bugfixings and odds and ends.
09:13 infinity - Made vga16fb and usplash default to a more sane resolution that seems to work well for everyone, this became the default in Flight-2.
09:13 infinity next week:
09:13 infinity - Getting the toolchain-dapper+1 stuff going for doko on the buildds
09:13 infinity - Everything else I said I'd do last week, but didn't.
09:13 JaneW haha
09:13 JaneW iwj
09:14 iwj Firefox maintenance: Working on a new release right now, to ship libnspr/libnss from firefox, and other fixes. BreezyFirefoxStartPageTranslation didn't happen and Matthew East and I haven't quite settled on the scheme for Dapper.
09:14 iwj DefaultApplicationsFirefox: no change since last report. Firefox needs more other work too.
09:14 iwj AutomatedTesting: I have implemented the first part (basic chroot-using virtualisation script). Will probably pick up the rest after Christmas. It would still be nice to have that straw man from Robert Collins.
09:14 iwj ThinClientLocalDevices: spec is still in Drafting. *BLOCKED*
09:14 iwj DeveloperDocumentation: Not started, not blocked.
09:14 iwj Holiday: tomorrow (Friday) is my last working day of 2005.
09:14 pitti iwj: yay nspr/nss ;)
09:14 dholbach pitti++
09:14 iwj pitti: It's real joy there in the build system, I can tell you.
09:14 infinity <laugh>
09:14 daniels build systems are all shit.
09:14 pitti everything in ffox is real joy, I believe
09:14 JaneW cool
09:14 JaneW jbailey:
09:15 jbailey * ToolchainRoadmap: Delayed from last week to this week. doko found a bug in my assumptions (I had forgotten about ldconfig biarch love. Decided to do LinuxThreads/NPTL biarch for this too. Both are now passing all tests. Now that flight-2 is out, should be next 24h.
09:15 jbailey * ToolchainRoadmapNg: After the glibc biarch, will start to evaluate glibc needs. Want to start collecting feedback on dropping pre-i686 per outstanding issues .
09:15 jbailey * General: glibc merge delayed by this as announced previously. Punting grub bugs also delayed - it was a busy week. This week, I plan to see which of the locale bugs were fixed with the Belocs merge. I have a slight suspicion that it's all of them. Oh yeah, and OMG, it's 3am.
09:15 JaneW jbailey: no it;s not it 3:15 :P
09:15 JaneW jdub??
09:15 jbailey JaneW: Sure, you can include that under my status. =)
09:15 iwj Can I suggest at this point that Matthew East and I should talk to langpack/rosetta maintainer about BreezyFirefoxStartPageTranslation and what to do for dapper ?
09:16 JaneW iwj: sure, 'do it'
09:16 infinity iwj : That would be a pitti and a Carlos, probably.
09:16 iwj infinity: Ah, thanks :-).
09:16 pitti yep
09:16 jbailey iwj: I'd like to catch up with what that issues are, because for Breezy it seemed unsolvable.
09:16 pitti probably me
09:16 JaneW jdub has example-content, via e-mail he said: Yeah, sorry - too much traveling to attend the meetings or get anything done on it. I plan to start doing stuff on it as soon as I return home from OSDC , and will hopefully get a huge chunk of it done before Christmas break.
09:16 iwj mdke: AYT? Let's not have it now but when is good for you ?
09:17 JaneW kamion: still not here?
09:17 JaneW I'll get an e-mail update from him...
09:17 iwj Isn't he on holiday still ?
09:17 dholbach JaneW: i will talk to jdub about that... we need it for the media-related parts of formal-test-plans
09:17 Mithrandir iwj: "still" as in, "for the last 12 hours", yes.
09:17 JaneW yes, he said he was going to pop in for the meeting, might be sleeping though...
09:17 doko jbailey, infinity: looks like I should put some toolchain work on my plan for next week ;)
09:18 JaneW dholbach: yes please do, might spur him along...
09:18 dholbach JaneW: i hope so :)
09:18 JaneW keybuk?
09:18 iwj mithrandir: I mean, since the last time we asked about him :-).
09:18 JaneW ok I'll be keybuk too: udev-roadmap: done; we're pretty much at the stage where the bugs we're
09:18 JaneW finding are turning out to be kernel bugs rather than udev bugs now.
09:18 JaneW hardware-activation: having some issues with network interface
09:18 JaneW activation, making sure we bring up things like static tun/ppp/etc.
09:18 JaneW interfaces without blocking on ethernet which are handled by udev, but
09:18 JaneW nothing serious
09:18 JaneW streamlined-boot: underway, was waiting on Flight 2 and now that's out
09:18 JaneW will be uploading bits over the next few days
09:18 JaneW network-magic: various discussions, have a keen guy looking at the
09:18 JaneW atheros issues for us
09:19 JaneW krstic?
09:19 JaneW lathiat?
09:19 JaneW sivang?
09:19 JaneW Mithrandir?
09:19 JaneW anyone?
09:19 Mithrandir openoffice-amd64: no changes
09:19 Mithrandir live-cd-performance: progress with the simplified live cd, as in, I have bootcharts and we can start chopping time off the boot by making changes such as unionfs vs devmapper, cloop vs squashfs, etc.
09:19 Mithrandir one-true-path: no progress
09:19 Mithrandir simplified-livecd: in place, working, released with flight 2. Needs polish and cleanups as well as usplash integration
09:19 Mithrandir media-integrity-check: no changes, but now unblocked. Should be trivial
09:20 Mithrandir network-authentication: no progress
09:20 Mithrandir general: I've been working on the simplified live cd infrastructure. It has come a long way and is pleasant to work with and easy to test. Some pieces are still missing.
09:20 Mithrandir next week: some vacation, but before that I'll look at getting simplified live finished up, and if that goes well, continue with media-integrity check and poke at the live-cd-performance stuff
09:20 iwj Oh, Kamion says he'll be in this meeting.
09:20 Mithrandir blocked on: nothing in particular, I have plenty of stuff to do until I get from VAC
09:20 iwj I mean, in warthogs.
09:20 sivang JaneW: hi, I'm here. been way busy at work, there hasn't been much changes since last time, I hope to be able to do some work on it on weekend time.
09:20 JaneW Mithrandir: so your block is gone..?
09:20 Mithrandir JaneW: yes.
09:20 JaneW sivang: ok great, thanks
09:20 JaneW Mithrandir: good.
09:20 Mithrandir JaneW: at least, no blocks I'm aware of.
09:21 JaneW ogra: you're next and sorry for missing yesterday's meeting - we must talk after this...
09:21 ogra * thin-client-sound: 95% implemented, code submitted to mdz for review, spec corrected accordingly, awaiting approval
09:21 ogra * thin-client-local-devices: no progress
09:21 ogra * thin-client-memory-usage: no progress
09:21 ogra * thin-client-faster-startup: fine on recent HW http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/edubuntu/dapper-20051212-1.png, spec changes awaiting approval
09:21 ogra * gnome-screensaver-default-image: pinged mark about images, no answer yet, will ping again :)
09:21 ogra * general: X breakage on the thin clients turned out to be only trident needs stilla debug session, mdz's suggestions for thin client sound implemented, flight2 tested on amd64/i386, themeable ldm finished, approved and included, ltsp multiarch patch approved and in dapper, no progress on new edubuntu-artwork yet, no more hwdb-client work yet. inspect X autodetection on thin clients for possible speedups per mdz suggestion not done
yet, only found
09:21 ogra that most of the preseed fixes we got from debian are not working at all. found that thin clients cant NFS mount anymore with the new dhcpd we ship due to a silly RFC (No. 2131) interpretation of the "siaddr" field by dhcpd upstream.
09:21 ogra next weeks plans: nag mark more for gnome-screensaver-default-image space pics, implement thin-client-memory-usage (which will also fix the powerpc bug for ltsp), fix up edubuntu-artwork, find out if the preseeding X stuff is solvable and solve it for the options where possible, trident X debugging, hwdb-client bugfixing. find solution for upgrades of dhcpd.
09:22 daniels which speedups?
09:22 ogra daniels, X ?
09:22 daniels x autodetection, yes
09:22 sivang that shifting times thingy is killing me...
09:22 sivang (of the meetings)
09:22 ogra mdz wants to put the debconf communicate call into one call instead of 20
09:22 ogra zhaz should speed up quite a bit
09:22 pitti ogra: dhcpd upgrade breaks?
09:23 ogra pitti, yes, for nfs mounted root filesystems
09:23 JaneW ogra: no movement on spec approvals yet? Still waiting on mdz for reviews?
09:23 ogra pitti, http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/DhcpdSiaddr
09:23 pitti ogra: omg, dhcp disturbs nfs? that sounds scary
09:24 ogra JaneW, mem usage is approved, sound is done ... but mdz had no time before holiday to review and faster startup needs minor changes
09:24 ogra pitti, it is ... :/
09:24 ogra JaneW, for local devices i still need mdz and sbalneav to get together
09:24 JaneW ogra ok thanks.
09:25 JaneW damn, has that not happened yet?!
09:25 ogra nope
09:25 JaneW ogra: the need is high, but it doesn't sem to be getting prioritized...
09:25 JaneW *sigh*
09:25 JaneW pitti: next
09:25 pitti not much to say this week, but
09:25 pitti this week: heaps of security updates, main inclusion reviews, and a few bits of package fixes, etc; no time to pursue specs
09:25 pitti next week: get PHP security update done with Adam, catch up with my long neglected bug mail, try to debug printing stuff a little
09:25 pitti automatic-printer-conf: PLAN: investigate hal-cups-utils from Fedora for exporting cups configuration to hal
09:26 ogra JaneW, it it (and always was) a low/mid prio spec
09:26 ogra *it is
09:26 pitti however, there are some more security updates to do, so there won't be much spec work next week either
09:27 pitti *grumble* ffmpeg *grumble*
09:27 seb128 pitti: hint for next week: avahi promotion :p
09:27 JaneW pitti: ok thanks *pat pat*
09:27 JaneW seb128:
09:27 Riddell ooh, yes please on avahi
09:27 seb128 hide-admin-tools-to-users: has been implemented previous week but the summary of the previous meeting has no mention of what I wrote on it, should I mention it again?
09:27 Kamion d'oh, sorry I'm late, slept in
09:27 seb128 video-playback: gstreamer0.10 uploaded, gst-plugins-base0.10 almost ready: will be uploaded today, will continue on that next week
09:27 seb128 other: GNOME 2.13.3
09:27 seb128 next week: video-playback and dapper-desktop-plan
09:27 Kamion I'll give my update at the end
09:28 pitti yay gst 0.10
09:28 seb128 hi Kamion
09:28 pitti Morning Kamion
09:28 JaneW Kamion: thought that was the case. np... we have continued ;)
09:28 pitti JaneW: cool, gst 0.10 removes the gstreamer-audio-backend blocker
09:28 seb128 pitti: with gst0.10 you can read songs without gap when switching :)
09:28 JaneW seb128: short and sweet...
09:28 JaneW pitti: great
09:29 seb128 s/read/play/
09:29 JaneW Riddell: ?
09:29 Riddell last week: kdebindings, kdevelop packaging, xpdf security, simplify-kde, flight-2 testing, revu, finished merges, kubuntu-package-manager design discussions
09:29 Riddell next week: kubuntu-system-tools, hide-admin-tools-to-users, kubuntu-documentation packaging, poking KDE MOTU into getting all KDE universe packages installable, investigate getting KDE to work with CUPS 1.2
09:29 dholbach and the kubuntu hug day! :)
09:29 Riddell dholbach: especially important
09:29 dholbach .-)
09:30 pitti eek, zombie smiley
09:30 JaneW ok just mvo and kamion left ... and then merge nagging :P
09:31 mvo did:
09:31 mvo - AutomaticUpgrades: update-manager/python-apt with the required support is in the archive. The actual upgrade tool still needs more work
09:31 mvo - AutomaticUpdates: integrated into the apt cron job, not yet upload (will do this today)
09:31 mvo - ThirdPartyPackages: big cleanups in GnomeAppInstall, the code is really a mess. Initial support for channels is in (jbailey bzr is the example channel)
09:31 mvo - some spec work about "PimpMyLanguageSelector" with jdub
09:31 mvo - some cmd-not-found work, big problem: "alternatives", very hard to parse, but
09:31 mvo required to give useful results for e.g. emacs
09:31 mvo - HideAdminTools/DapperDesktopPlan spec work for update-notifier
09:31 mvo - DapperDesktopPlan work for notification-daemon
09:31 mvo need opinion:
09:31 mvo - should the "automatic security upgrades" stuff be backported to breezy (in a seperate repository) so that people can test it more easily?
09:31 mvo blocking:
09:31 mvo - support for package recommends: waiting on mdz for a decision
09:31 mvo will do:
09:31 mvo - more work on gnome-app-install/ThirdPartyPackages spec
09:31 JaneW now that's an update!
09:32 JaneW thanks mvo: sme of your others have been hard to decode ;)
09:32 pitti mvo: backported to a private archive on people?
09:32 mvo pitti: yes
09:32 pitti well, can't hurt in any way :)
09:32 dholbach JaneW: mvo deserves a golden star now, right? :)
09:32 pitti since there aren't security updates for dapper yet
09:32 mvo the problem is that we have no dapper-security currently, so it's a bit hard to test it on dapper :)
09:32 pitti at least not proper ones, just regular uploads
=== mvo agrees with pitti
=== JaneW hands mvo a virtual GoldStar (tm)
09:33 Kamion I'd go for private archive for now and a post to ubuntu-users@
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09:33 jbailey With Soyuz will those be created at the start of the dev cycle?
09:33 jbailey I suspect they probably ought to be to make testing things like this possible.
09:33 Kamion jbailey: dapper-{security,updates} already exist *now*
09:33 Kamion there's just nothing in them
09:33 JaneW Riddell: any progress on getting your specs approved?
09:33 jbailey Ah, okay.
09:33 infinity Yes, the lack of packages in them makes it hard to test automatic upgrades. :)
09:34 Kamion ue-gnome-ui: Discussed accessibility requirements with Henrik.
09:34 Kamion ubuntu-express-bootloader: Was blocked for almost the entire week on the lack of a live CD. I have that now, but only as of yesterday, so just started on getting a reasonable test environment here.
09:34 jbailey Quick! Someone find a php hole! =)
=== jbailey hides.
09:34 Kamion cd-bootloader: Lots of bootloader SHINY done in the form of gfxboot-theme-ubuntu; deployed in Flight CD 2. This is now implemented with the exception of keymap selection; that's blocked until I know what kind of input simplified-live-cd expects here. Some bugs reported but nothing major yet.
09:34 Kamion misc: Flight CD 2 done, which took way too long. Helped Tollef out with casper/initramfs a bit, and eventually decided to switch to simplified-live-cd.
09:34 Kamion blocked: There aren't enough hours in the day to do Flight CD 2 and real work.
09:34 infinity jbailey : Fixing about 10 right now.
09:34 pitti jbailey: I have heaps of them
09:34 Mithrandir Kamion: simplified-live-cd will do with what I get ATM.. at least, I think so.
09:35 Kamion Mithrandir: (I think passing kbd-chooser/method= as we would for d-i should be fine?)
09:35 Mithrandir Kamion: yes
09:35 pitti Kamion: just saw gfxboot today, shiny!
09:35 Kamion ok
09:35 Riddell JaneW: not really, kubuntu-express is pending review from Kamion, who is now on holiday. kubuntu-package-manager bounty needs approval/decline from mdz who is also on holiday
09:35 Mithrandir Kamion/pitti: I might want a little bit of hand-holding to generate locales correctly for live.
09:35 pitti we urgently need a locales discussion
09:35 jbailey Kamion: Is the flight-2 time stuff that all needed to be done anyway, or is there more that the rest of us need to do to avoid blocking you?
09:35 JaneW Riddell: ok, hopefully we can get them sorted in early Jan then...?
09:35 pitti with Kamion, jbailey, doko, and me
09:35 Kamion Riddell: ah, I hadn't noticed kubuntu-express, will have a look at a free point
09:36 Kamion jbailey: was mostly horribly blocked on the lack of a live CD
09:36 JaneW ok let's talk merges http://tinyurl.com/dgvf2
09:36 Mithrandir JaneW: just a sec
09:37 jbailey pitti: Scheduled it for any afternoon for you guys and I'm easily there.
09:37 Kamion jbailey: possibly a little more initiative somewhere could've been taken on getting that done, but I can't really complain because it was all stuck behind the new kernel nonsense for ages
09:37 Mithrandir I'm wondering if we should have small freezes around the time when we try to get the live cd out, since we too often end up in situations where the live fs generation fails
09:37 Kamion I would like to have more people randomly testing CD images, though
09:37 Kamion as in, not just before release - as we discussed before
09:37 Mithrandir which is _really_ annoying when we're trying to release a cd and busy fixing other stuff.
09:38 Kamion casper changes now involve rebuilding the live filesystem, as of simplified-live-cd
09:38 dholbach Kamion: i burned the whole bunch and will get some tests done today
09:38 daniels Mithrandir: i think just saying 'don't upload shit that will break shit' and compelling everyone to comply via social means will be better than hard freezes
09:38 Kamion dholbach: thanks
09:38 pitti I tested today's live, will test today's install, too
09:38 Mithrandir daniels: possibly, but we didn't even do that, which meant having random gnome packages uploaded broke the world underneath our feet.
09:39 Kamion yes, hard freezes have the bad side-effect that once you start one everybody expects you to release something soon
09:39 daniels Mithrandir: so try that?
09:39 Kamion which might not be appropriate depending on how broken the result is
09:39 Kamion and it really does impede everyone else's work a lot
09:39 Mithrandir can we just try "soft freezes", then?
09:40 sivang Kamion: we need to gather some more people around doing specifically that (testing cd images) , ideally from the community. I would have helped, but currently work stuff don't let me get to it.
09:40 jbailey Kamion: I'd suggested it before but not seen any interest, but I think maybe an "installfest day" once a month like dholbach does with the bug days might be effective?
09:40 Kamion I would like it if people uploading packages could try to arrange that those uploads will break as little as possible if they're built on only some architectures
09:40 jbailey Kamion: Then you know you could set aside that day knowing that you'll mostly be collecting bug reports and triaging errors, etc.
09:40 pitti especially not pull in new packages from universe
09:40 Kamion jbailey: I strongly think it needs to be spread out, not concentrated; we already have installfests just before releases
09:40 dholbach jbailey: i will work more on the testing plan and try to announce it big
09:40 jbailey Kamion: I was thinking like monthly.
09:41 Kamion jbailey: the problem we have is that we don't find out about problems often enough
09:41 daniels (or just ask kamion if you have world-endingly breaking stuff to upload. i was about to upload 169 packages right as he was trying to release flight 2.)
09:41 dholbach i thought about enumerating the "topics" in the testplan, so people could refer to them in bugs and we could better keep track of those numbers
09:41 jbailey Kamion: For me alot of the time it just doesn't occur to me to test the CD mid-release. There's always other tasks that have to be done.
09:41 Kamion jbailey: I don't want to arrange that I only find out about problems blocking my (supposedly) two-weekly CD releases on a monthly basis. :-)
09:41 seb128 Mithrandir: when there is a new GNOME every 2 weeks and it take 3 days to package we can't really say "wait a few days before uploading it may break something"
09:41 Kamion seb128: if it didn't break so badly when i386 builds but powerpc is lagging a bit, that would be lovely
09:42 Kamion there are a lot of tight arch: all <-> any dependencies
09:42 Mithrandir seb128: I care less about segfaults and application breakage than pure uninstallability.
09:42 ogra JaneW, that bugzilla search is broken ....
09:42 infinity seb128 : Uploading really wasn't a big deal, it was just horribly timed. If someone had asked you to wait 4 hours, it would have been fine. So, y'know, "oops". :)
09:42 seb128 Kamion: right, but I consider that an archive bug ...
09:42 dholbach ogra: i did it, what's wrong?
09:42 ogra JaneW, or MOM is ...
09:42 Kamion oh, for goodness' sake, I guess we'll never get anything done then
09:42 seb128 infinity: I'm fine to wait 4 hours if somebody say so, it's just not easy to guess ;)
=== Kamion declares all his bugs archive bugs and goes home. :-)
09:42 dholbach Kamion: what do you mean?
09:42 dholbach haha :)
09:43 doko seb128: no, that's packaging, which you can work around
09:43 elmo seb128: dude, be realistic, the archive has been like that since Debian started
09:43 ogra dholbach, there are merges that are no merges (i.e. we have newer versions, see kino)
09:43 infinity seb128 : The next time we seem to be on a "we want installable livefs's" warpath, I'll be sure to try to warn you.
09:43 seb128 infinity: thanks
09:43 elmo seb128: it might be nice if the archive didn't work that way, but it doesn't, and it's not ging to get fixed anytime soon
09:43 dholbach ogra: talk to mom :)
09:43 JaneW http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/buglist.cgi?bug_status=UNCONFIRMED&bug_status=NEW&bug_status=ASSIGNED&bug_status=REOPENED&bug_status=NEEDINFO&bug_status=UPSTREAM&bug_status=PENDINGUPLOAD&field0-0-0=product&type0-0-0=substring&value0-0-0=merging&field0-0-1=component&type0-0-1=substring&value0-0-1=merging&field0-0-2=short_desc&type0-0-2=substring&value0-0-2=merging&field0-0-3=status_whiteboard&type0-0-3=substring&value0-0-3=merging&order=
09:43 JaneW map_assigned_to.login_name,bugs.resolution
09:43 elmo (err, s/doesn't/does/)
09:43 ogra dholbach, i do :)
09:43 seb128 elmo: yeah, but changing the whole GNOME to not do that is not trivial neither
09:44 Mithrandir I think we should move on to merges now..
09:44 pitti JaneW: are we supposed to catch up with the new merges? that's an awful lot of work at the current time
09:44 doko pitti: and the list is incomplete
09:44 seb128 I thought merges were low priority for now?
09:44 Kamion I didn't expect us to be prioritising merges right now, no
09:44 seb128 and we had to catch up again before freeze
09:45 pitti ok, *phew*
09:45 seb128 s/had/will have/ rather :)
09:45 pitti I thought that had changed, since JaneW wants to nag about it :)
09:45 Kamion UVF isn't until 19th January
09:45 JaneW ok so are all the old ones done then?
=== JaneW is v happy to NOT nag
09:45 jbailey Ugh, only 1month to UVF?
09:45 Kamion not all, but most of them are
09:46 ajmitch are the merge bugs with assignee as debzilla free to take?
09:46 seb128 they were previous week before starting the automatic bugs again no?
09:46 Kamion I count nine old ones
09:46 doko Kamion: we still haven't merged all packages at least once, the ones with differing tarballs in unstable/dapper are missing. is it too late to touch these just before UVF?
09:46 Kamion ajmitch: yes
09:46 ajmitch (within reason)
09:46 ogra mdz said explicitly that merge bugs should be set to P5 prio
09:46 ajmitch ok
09:46 Kamion doko: Scott said there was a whole *one* of those that MOM hadn't reported
09:46 ogra so i didnt expect to prioritize them now
09:46 doko Kamion: oh, I didn't know that
09:46 Kamion so that issue doesn't concern me at the moment
09:46 pitti ogra: new merge bugs only, not the old ones
09:46 Kamion doko: he said it to you :-)
09:47 ogra and MOM filed bugs for packages that are never in ubuntu ...
09:47 ogra *newer
09:47 Kamion everyone, please do check for merge bugs with bugzilla ids less than 20000
=== doko hides, didn't see that ...
09:47 ogra (see my comment about kino)
09:47 dholbach ogra: it'S about merging, not about newer stuff
09:48 Kamion those are the old ones: Riddell has 1, infinity 3, doko 2, pitti 1, jbailey 1, fabbione 1
09:48 ogra dholbach, there isnt anything to merge ... it should sort out the 0 byte patches ... i guess there are more
09:48 Kamion I realise they're all the really hard ones
09:48 pitti cdrtools is still broken
09:48 pitti I won't upload it
09:48 Kamion pitti: hmm?
09:48 jbailey Kamion: glibc is intentionally delayed (per status report)
09:48 pitti blocked: new upstream version does not work as normal user
09:48 pitti ^ status whiteboard
09:48 Kamion pitti: is that still true as of the most recent Debian upload?
09:49 dholbach ogra: then merge the changelog, or sync if there's nothing to be changed
09:49 pitti Kamion: I didn't test it in the last week, I'll do again
09:49 ogra dholbach, ??
09:49 Kamion the last one dates from 2005-12-04
09:49 ogra dholbach, what should i sync with a 0 byte merge patch ?
09:49 dholbach ogra: merge manually?
09:50 infinity Kamion : Mine are all intentionally delayed, as reported last week.
09:50 ogra dholbach, 0 == zero byte, there is not even a changelog entry to merge ...
09:50 pitti Kamion: the changelog doesn't seem to indicate any fixes in that direction, but I'll try
09:50 infinity Kamion : Though I could merge Thunderbird just to shut up MOM while I work on 1.5
09:50 doko Kamion: gjdoc: sync requested
09:50 Kamion and fabbione's is still blocked behind i386 biarch I believe
09:51 dholbach ogra: you don't need to teach me, what 0 means - there were changes in debian - i looked at it a while ago
09:51 Kamion ok, any other business?
09:52 JaneW no additional meetings were requested
09:52 JaneW does anybody need to list a required discussion?
09:52 pitti we need the locales discisson
09:52 pitti but that can be informal
09:52 pitti we just need to settle a time
09:52 jbailey pitti: Need to pick a time for it, though.
09:52 daniels would X breakage next week be a particular problem to anyone?
09:52 JaneW should I note it?
09:52 Kamion I'm off these two days, and next Wed/Thu/Fri; is everybody involved around on Monday?
09:53 pitti jbailey, Kamion, doko: would this afternoon be fine for you?
09:53 daniels not code breakage, just as I attempt to reshuffle the configuration madness into something that isn't shit
09:53 Kamion oh, Mithrandir isn't IIRC
09:53 seb128 daniels: I prefer having a working X to get GNOME work done, but that's just me :)
09:53 Kamion pitti: no, I'll be out of the house
=== dholbach -> phone
09:53 pitti Kamion: Monday would work for me
09:53 pitti jbailey, doko: Monday 1500 UTC?
09:53 Mithrandir Kamion: I'm around on Monday, yes.
09:53 doko pitti: Monday is ok
09:53 daniels seb128: that wasn't a general question, that was more a 'is there anything specific next week that means I should wait for a week or so'
09:53 pitti great
09:53 Kamion ok by me
09:53 jbailey pitti: FIne for me.
09:53 pitti cool
09:53 JaneW who all is it Kamion, pitti, doko?
09:53 seb128 daniels: oh k, not afaik so :)
09:53 JaneW and Mithrandir
09:53 pitti JaneW: yes
09:54 Kamion JaneW: and jbailey
09:54 mvo pitti: does it touch language-selector?
09:54 pitti mvo: *could*, not sure
09:54 pitti mvo: wanna join?
09:54 ogra dholbach, so i should make a changelog entry that reads "nothing merged" and upload a new ubuntu version? what for ?
09:54 mvo might be a good idea if it does, yeah :)
09:54 pitti seb128: hm, I can't add anything to my evo calendar
09:55 pitti mvo: is 1500UTC on monday fine for you?
09:55 mvo yes
09:55 jbailey pitti: Make sure you have the right calendar selected.
09:55 Kamion daniels: next week's not too bad; I *was* thinking of a very quick CD release next week in case live CD issues in Flight 2 need fixed up before the holidays
09:55 seb128 pitti: I can't even switch to the calendar tab
09:55 jbailey pitti: It's sometimes non-obvious.
09:55 Kamion but that will be early next week by necessity (vacation time and all), if it happens at all
09:55 ogra dholbach, sorry, but i dont get what you want ...
=== pitti slaps jbailey
09:55 pitti jbailey: no, my evo freezes right after starting it
09:55 infinity Kamion : If you end up on the LiveCD warpath again next week, warn me.
09:56 Kamion will do
09:56 Mithrandir Kamion: flight 2.1 on Monday or Tuesday would be nice.
09:56 jbailey pitti: Smacking me around isn't like to get me to help you fix it, my friend. =)
09:56 Kamion I might just delegate it :-)
09:56 Mithrandir since I'm hoping we can have language selection and such in there
09:56 pitti jbailey: heh, sorry, that was meant for evo upstream :)
09:56 infinity Uh oh.
09:56 infinity Kamion : The word "delegate" scares me, when I know how many people in the cdimage group aren't on vacation... :)
09:56 Kamion So it should. ;-)
09:57 infinity Kamion : Unless you meant you were delegating to Riddell. :P
09:57 seb128 pitti: I'm supposed to get a patch to try within an hour
09:57 pitti seb128: <3
09:57 seb128 pitti: and the "within an hour" is from half and hour ago
09:57 Riddell I'm not in cdimage group yet as far as I know
09:57 infinity Riddell : Dang.
09:57 Riddell oh, actually maybe I am
09:57 Kamion uid=2552(jriddell) gid=2500(warthogs) groups=2500(warthogs),2504(cdimage),2511(porting_team)
09:57 Kamion are so
09:58 infinity Ah-ha!
=== infinity takes next week off.
=== Riddell feels the delegation
09:58 JaneW ok me goes to update report...
09:58 JaneW Kamion: go 'home' ;)
09:58 pitti thanks guys
09:58 Kamion JaneW: thanks for chairing; I *did* set my alarm to 7:30, honest ... I think my body knows it's on vacation.
09:59 jbailey "Dave, this conversation can serve no purpose anymore. Goodbye."
=== infinity [n=adconrad@loki.0c3.net] has left #ubuntu-meeting []
09:59 Kamion thanks everyone, have a great holiday
09:59 pitti Kamion: enjoy your holidays, have a merry christmas
09:59 Kamion Spend some time *away* from the computer (and that's me talking). :-)
09:59 JaneW Kamion: it's ok really. relax and take a break - you deserve it!
09:59 ogra haha
10:00 pitti must ... fix ... bugs *nng*
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10:00 mvo have fun Kamion
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10:01 ogra Kamion, enjoy your holiday and thanks again for the liveCDs :)
10:01 daniels Kamion: okay. upgrades would probably be the issue rather than fresh installs.
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10:01 Kamion elmo: incidentally, taking alex out of the cdimage group might be nice for my nerves
10:02 Kamion I keep seeing it and going "WTF?"
10:03 dholbach sorry, got a phone call about linuxdays.luMeetingLogs/DapperDev_2005-12-15 (last edited 2008-08-06 16:24:04 by localhost)