{{{
06:01	DBO2	ok ladies and gents, shall we begin?  despite our team of atomic powered super men not being present
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06:01	Camus_SoNiCo	before we start, are the "results" of the current meeting gonna be placed somewhere? so anyone can read them
06:02	DBO2	yes
06:02	stgraber	There is a page in the wiki
06:02	DBO2	this channel is logged
06:02	gnomefreak	this channel is logged
06:02	DBO2	i win
06:02	gnomefreak	:)
06:02	Camus_SoNiCo	ok, great
06:02	givre	http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/ ;)
=== gnomefreak is JOhn Vivirito
=== Camus_SoNiCo is Camus SoNiCo :P
06:03	DBO2	ok, first off, who all do we have here that is a member of the team that is NOT a beryl dev?
06:03	gnomefreak	lol
06:03	gnomefreak	yeah me
06:04	DBO2	gnomefreak, I think we need to beat them...
06:04	gnomefreak	is joel here?
06:04	lupine_85	me :)
06:04	stgraber	me :)
06:04	Camus_SoNiCo	me too, but i'm willing to develop
06:04	gnomefreak	rouben here?
06:04	lupine_85	(well, I'm downloading beryl-plugins source right now)
06:04	gnomefreak	henrickomma here?
06:05	DBO2	Camus_SoNiCo, ok we will get to that
06:05	Camus_SoNiCo	Ok
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06:05	gnomefreak	who is a beryl devel other than Quinn_Storm  and DBO2
06:05	DBO2	im not devel
06:05	cyberorg	<- sort of
06:05	gnomefreak	DBO2: your working on themes arnt you?
06:06	DBO2	but the team thats here is iXce, Quinn_Storm and cyberorg is a packager
06:06	gnomefreak	ah ok
06:06	DBO2	iXce is perhaps one of the most important members of beryl (IMHO) next to Quinn_Storm
06:06	gnomefreak	ok other than dev. who here helps in #ubuntu-xgl (other than DBO2)
06:07	DBO2	lupine_85 is a big help
06:07	DBO2	hes there a lot
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06:07	lupine_85	am I?
06:07	gnomefreak	we are in need of people helping in there
06:07	gnomefreak	lupine_85: yes
06:07	lupine_85	cor
06:07	DBO2	lifeless, here for the desktop effects meeting?
06:07	gnomefreak	it seems so
06:07	DBO2	gnomefreak, ok lets get some structure going =)
06:07	DBO2	First order of business is the wiki pages
06:08	DBO2	those need an entire overhaul
06:08	DBO2	beryl 0.1 has been pre-released
06:08	DBO2	and the wiki needs to reflect that as well as how to install compiz-git
06:09	gnomefreak	myself and DBO2  have been starting on them but we are gonna have alot of pages hopfully all linked but need people willing to help on them
06:09	DBO2	I have some experience writing these walkthroughs
06:09	gnomefreak	DBO2: is there a main beryl repo? other than amaroths?
06:09	iXce	gnomefreak : official one :o)
06:09	DBO2	so if there are no objections, I would like to head up the wiki project
06:10	gnomefreak	iXce: there is?
06:10	DBO2	gnomefreak, yes just today
06:10	gnomefreak	ok good
06:10	lupine_85	amaranth is closing his repo once the beryl official one gets up
06:10	Quinn_Storm	the same repos that used to cover compiz-quinn
06:10	gnomefreak	lets use that for the wikis than
06:10	DBO2	yeah
06:10	DBO2	we will also need a wiki for switching to beryl from compiz
06:11	DBO2	which will be fairly easy
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06:11	gnomefreak	is this going to be in universe.multiverse at all for edgy or edgy+!?
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06:11	DBO2	thats the hope
06:11	iXce	edgy+1 i think, it sounds pretty impossible to get it into edgy, but edgy would be great :)
06:11	DBO2	I am hoping to work the MOTU on this
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06:12	gnomefreak	iXce: its pretty late for edgy
06:12	lupine_85	are we going to have transitional packages for compiz-quinn -> beryl?
06:12	gnomefreak	universe freeze started yesterday
06:12	DBO2	and I know Quinn_Storm is going to Mountain View, which means that we have a good shot at it
06:12	shawarma	gnomefreak: UVF was yesterday.
06:12	cyberorg	I guess as beryl and compiz can coexist, beryl-manager can become common tool for switching to and from beryl
06:12	Quinn_Storm	edgy+1 is a sensible goal, not edgy
06:12	DBO2	for edgy+1 that is
06:12	DBO2	cyberorg, I agree with that
06:12	DBO2	Quinn_Storm, I know you dont want to
06:13	DBO2	but it really is my opinion that beryl-manager should support compiz-git
06:13	cyberorg	makes helping users easier - just tell them to use beryl manager
06:13	Quinn_Storm	well if you guys want, we can work that in
06:13	Quinn_Storm	but...it'll just be supported like any other WM is
06:13	DBO2	thats fine
06:13	Quinn_Storm	unless you guys want to take a crack at it
06:14	cyberorg	thats all is needed
06:14	gnomefreak	so to use compiz you install beryl-manager?
06:14	cyberorg	i can look into it
06:14	DBO2	gnomefreak, no its just an option
06:14	gnomefreak	oh ok
06:14	DBO2	and it adds consistancy to how they are launched
06:14	gnomefreak	ok that sounds good than
06:15	Quinn_Storm	yeah, beryl-manager is fairly extensible
06:15	DBO2	makes walkthroughs easier too
06:15	DBO2	ok so that covers with wiki and that segway
=== lupine_85 would like a "start automatically" option in beryl-manager.. . rather than adding it to sessions manually
06:15	gnomefreak	Quinn_Storm: are your repos gonna be used for compiz/xgl?
06:15	Quinn_Storm	for now
06:15	gnomefreak	lupine_85: how about a login option?
06:15	Quinn_Storm	wait
06:15	cyberorg	lupine_85: put that on bugtracker
06:15	Quinn_Storm	compiz?
06:16	Quinn_Storm	I guess if someone wants to compile compiz-git pkgs
06:16	DBO2	Quinn_Storm, he wants to know if you will have compiz-git?
06:16	DBO2	we can get a packager for that
06:16	Quinn_Storm	well I won't personally handle it but yeah we can package it
06:16	DBO2	would you be willing to add it in?
06:16	gnomefreak	Quinn_Storm: in other words are people only gonna be able to use the compiz in repos?
06:16	Quinn_Storm	gnomefreak: we'll package compiz-git, I just won't be doing it myself
06:17	DBO2	ok thats good
06:17	DBO2	I will begin searching for someone to do packaging
06:17	iXce	reggaemanu?
06:17	DBO2	perhaps
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06:17	gnomefreak	lol speaking of
06:18	DBO2	speak of the turkey =)
06:18	gnomefreak	ok can we get the repos on the ML when ready to be used for either/both
06:19	DBO2	the repo is the same as the old compiz repo
06:19	gnomefreak	that way we can build the wiki's around them
06:19	DBO2	xgl.compiz.info I believe
06:19	reggaemanu	hi
06:19	Quinn_Storm	well as you know we're already ready w/ beryl
06:19	Quinn_Storm	I pushed 0.1.0 packages thismorning
06:19	Quinn_Storm	and nigel pushed amd64 edgy pkgs
06:19	gnomefreak	Quinn_Storm: ah
06:19	iXce	http://ubuntu.beryl-project.org
06:19	DBO2	do we have someone doing 64 dapper?
06:20	lupine_85	Quinn_Storm: I'm still mirroring that as compiz-mirror. Should I change my beryl-mirror. over to it instead?
06:20	reggaemanu	DBO, we should use beryl-project.org no compiz.info ;) but the repo is the same yeah
06:20	reggaemanu	oops, it was for DBO2 :p
06:20	lupine_85	actually, I should point them both to the same one...
06:20	DBO2	reggaemanu, yeah sorry about the name, not on my normal PC
06:20	lupine_85	that we we update all the old compiz users, and all the ones using the unofficial repo as well
06:21	DBO2	lupine_85, thats not a bad idea
06:21	lupine_85	it's running now
06:21	gnomefreak	beryl = edgy and up only right?
06:21	DBO2	no
06:21	DBO2	it runs on dapper too
06:21	Quinn_Storm	no it was backported to dapper w/ the same stuff as compiz
06:21	gnomefreak	ok
06:21	DBO2	mostly just libxcomposite
06:21	Quinn_Storm	yeah
06:22	DBO2	those backports should stay in place please =)
06:22	DBO2	ok, to recap gnomefreak
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06:22	DBO2	we need packagers for compiz-get, beryl 64bit dapper, beryl 32 edgy-dapper
06:23	DBO2	we want to remove the packaging duty from quinn all together
06:23	DBO2	so she is free to develop
06:23	gnomefreak	ok i like that
06:23	DBO2	nigel_c is already taking care of 64bit edgy
06:23	DBO2	and once edgy is released we can stop packaging dapper
06:23	reggaemanu	i can do it for compiz-git and beryl 32
06:23	DBO2	edgy or dapper?
06:23	reggaemanu	(edgy)
06:24	gnomefreak	k
06:24	DBO2	gnomefreak, can you take notes, I am not able to where I am
06:24	reggaemanu	dapper too with a pbuilder but since i can't test it that's useless
06:24	gnomefreak	yeah give me a sec
06:24	lupine_85	I have 32 and 64 edgy
=== Quinn_Storm pbuilders dapper too anyway
06:25	DBO2	yeah but you are stopping that =P
06:25	xopher	I could do beryl 64bit dapper I guess
06:25	lupine_85	I meant for packaging official: [17:22]  <DBO2> we need packagers for compiz-get, beryl 64bit dapper, beryl 32 edgy-dapper
06:25	gnomefreak	DBO2: what is nigel_c packaging for 64bit?
06:25	DBO2	gnomefreak, beryl edgy
06:26	gnomefreak	k
06:26	lupine_85	unofficial beryl-mirror is now pointing to official beryl. unofficial beryl-64 is gone.
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06:27	gnomefreak	so reggaemanu and nigel are the only packagers we have for this so far?
06:27	DBO2	officially yes
06:27	DBO2	we  want to replace quinn
06:28	DBO2	we can see if Amaranth wants the job
06:28	iXce	ahem
06:28	DBO2	he was already packaging
06:28	reggaemanu	we need someone else for dapper
06:28	DBO2	iXce, did we miss you?
06:28	iXce	what's the problem with quinn doing some packages?
06:28	DBO2	iXce, she shouldnt have to
06:28	DBO2	it takes time that she can better spend elsewhere
06:28	iXce	yeah
06:29	iXce	that's right :)
06:29	Camus_SoNiCo	let her to some magic :P
06:29	DBO2	her time is far too valuable to have her packaging
06:29	iXce	and maybe should svn be less distro-specific
06:30	DBO2	thats really up to the dev team
06:30	DBO2	but you will find no qualms here
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06:30	iXce	bbl
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06:30	gnomefreak	ok so far i have " 2 packagers listed" and notes for taking Quinn_Storm off packaging and see if amarath wants it.
06:30	gnomefreak	and we need some more
06:31	lupine_85	Amaranth will be continuing with the l-r-m stuff, IIRC - I think I'm lending her an ssh session to do the compilation and upload whenever necessay
06:32	lupine_85	erm, him"
06:32	stgraber	I'm interested but I just don't know how to do so :), so if someone explain me what to do and how (I also have 2-3 howtos in my bookmarks), I can help with packaging
06:32	DBO2	gnomefreak, note down that we may hit up Amaranth for info
06:32	gnomefreak	info on what?
06:33	DBO2	packaging
06:33	gnomefreak	noted
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06:33	gnomefreak	wecome Xnix
06:33	DBO2	ok next
06:33	gnomefreak	welcome even
06:33	Xnix	howdy
06:33	DBO2	as far as bug reports go
06:34	DBO2	all team member should be made aware of the bug tracker
06:34	gnomefreak	DBO2: got a handy link?
06:34	DBO2	bugs.beryl-project.org
=== lupine_85 bookmarks
06:35	DBO2	on a related note I think team members should be subscribed to the svn commit emails
06:35	gnomefreak	agreed
06:35	Xnix	how do we get on those?
06:35	Xnix	i keep up with it, but didnt know there was email
06:35	gnomefreak	DBO2: are we using LP for beryl buggs?
06:36	Quinn_Storm	we're in the process of fixing that
06:36	gnomefreak	k
06:36	DBO2	gnomefreak, yes and no
06:36	gnomefreak	DBO2: we can get together later about that
06:36	DBO2	gnomefreak, anything that is not in ubuntu repos should not go in launchpad I dont think...
06:36	reggaemanu	the login still don't work
06:36	DBO2	we will have to talk on that later
06:36	gnomefreak	DBO2: agreed
06:36	gnomefreak	brb phone
06:37	DBO2	Quinn_Storm, is there any chance beryl might end up on launchpad itself?
06:37	Quinn_Storm	Generally...probably not...I hate their interface
06:37	reggaemanu	anyway, what is in ubuntu repos isn't package like it should, some patchs missed for xgl -_-
06:37	DBO2	Quinn_Storm, ok
06:37	reggaemanu	gnome-session need some patch too
06:38	mjg59	reggaemanu: The package in the Ubuntu repos works fine with the X server we ship
06:38	DBO2	reggaemanu, have bugs been submitted to launchpad?
06:38	DBO2	mjg59, what about the gnome-session issue
06:38	reggaemanu	mjg59, the java patch is missing, so java app can't work on compiz git or beryl
06:39	mjg59	reggaemanu: Patch in launchpad plskthxbi
06:39	reggaemanu	and there is no possibility to disable the grabscreen in gnome-session so it doesn't work with aiglx or nvidia beta driver
06:39	reggaemanu	so you cant say that it works with the x server you ship :p
06:39	mjg59	I've used it extensively with the X server we ship
06:39	DBO2	are you using xgl or aiglx?
06:39	mjg59	aiglx
06:39	mjg59	That is, the X server we ship
06:39	iXce	reggaemanu : yeah we know, we're wroking on that with coling right now
06:40	DBO2	iXce, ok thats fine then
06:40	DBO2	Camus_SoNiCo, you wanted to know how you could help
06:40	reggaemanu	mjg59, and you are able to logout with aiglx and the official gnome-session package?
06:40	reggaemanu	that's impossible, the grab break the logout dialog
06:40	mjg59	reggaemanu: Please. File. A. Bug.
06:41	Camus_SoNiCo	yes, but first i'd like to cover Xgl vs AIGLX, not sure about diffs
06:41	iXce	mjg59 : we already did
06:41	reggaemanu	everybody is aware of that since around 6 month...
06:41	Xnix	reggaemanu i can log out sometimes, usuing unpatched gnome-session with beryl
06:41	Xnix	in Xgl
06:41	DBO2	Xnix, thats xgl
06:41	DBO2	doesnt have the issue
06:41	reggaemanu	Xnix, it's ok in xgl, i'm talking about aiglx...
06:41	Xnix	ahh ok
06:41	mjg59	Oh, that's interesting
06:41	DBO2	its on aiglx and nvidia beta drivers that have the issue
06:41	mjg59	Why don't I get compiz bugs?
06:41	reggaemanu	(adn it is the same with the new nvidia drivers now)
06:41	lupine_85	logout works here (edgy+nvidia beta)
06:41	reggaemanu	s/adn/and
06:42	mjg59	I used to
06:42	lupine_85	erm, but KDE
06:42	iXce	but it's not a high priority bug since there's no compositing manager included by default
06:42	iXce	and it's a gnome-session bug
06:42	reggaemanu	lupine_85, we are talking about gnome-session so if you use KDE... ^^
06:42	lupine_85	yep - noticed that after $13$10
06:42	lupine_85	;)
06:43	DBO2	ok, so bug has been filed, its out of our hands for now
06:43	reggaemanu	libwnck need some patch too, i must repackage it every time there is an update in the official repo, that's boring
=== Camus_SoNiCo wants to know de diff between Xgl and AIGLX
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06:43	DBO2	Camus_SoNiCo, different arch, while Xgl runs on top of Xorg, AIGLX is part of Xorg
06:43	DBO2	both however provide a means to get TFP
06:44	DBO2	(amoung other things)
06:44	gnomefreak	ok sorry about htat
06:44	givre	mjg59:  https://launchpad.net/bugs/24221 https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/gnome-session/+bug/59244
06:44	Ubugtu	Malone bug 24221 in gnome-session "GNOME logout screen doesn't appear when the composite is enabled" [Unknown,Unconfirmed]  
06:44	Camus_SoNiCo	DBO2, thanks
06:44	DBO2	the primary difference is aiglx allows for direct rendering Camus_SoNiCo
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06:44	Camus_SoNiCo	ah, great for games ;)
06:44	DBO2	and videa
06:44	DBO2	video
06:45	mjg59	givre: Thanks
06:45	Camus_SoNiCo	DBO2, i should switch then :P
06:45	DBO2	Camus_SoNiCo, there are video card support issues
06:45	stgraber	If the driver can work with AIGLX ...
06:45	DBO2	guys
06:45	Camus_SoNiCo	DBO2, it has issues with nvidia?
06:45	DBO2	I got to run
06:46	DBO2	Camus_SoNiCo, yes
06:46	Camus_SoNiCo	ups :S
06:46	gnomefreak	i have seen a few compiz/xgl bugs on LP recently. not sure if reported than or traiged than
06:46	DBO2	gnomefreak, can you handle it from here? =)
06:46	gnomefreak	DBO2: where are we?
06:46	DBO2	gnomefreak, the differences between Xgl/AIGLX/compiz/beryl
06:47	reggaemanu	the patchs to make libwnck compiz/beryl aware should really go to official ubuntu repo
06:47	DBO2	ill be back later tonight gnomefreak
=== lupine_85 knows what he would like to see in the (any) repos... http://www.kde-look.org/content/show.php?content=46021 : kicker-compiz
06:47	gnomefreak	ok but shouldnt that have been with JoelStanley here?
06:47	gnomefreak	DBO2: ok go for it
06:48	gnomefreak	i +1 lupine_85 idea if it is possible to add it in
06:48	mjg59	Oh
06:48	mjg59	No, we're not going to be including that gnome-session patch
06:48	mjg59	It's mad
06:49	mjg59	There has to be a better way to fix that
06:49	reggaemanu	mjg59, that's just a workaround yeah, anyway others distrib just disable the grab for everybody
06:49	lupine_85	it doesn't deal with normal KDE desktops properly, so I think it's not appropriate for official ubuntu
06:49	mjg59	reggaemanu: That would be one solution, yes. It would be preferable to find another one.
06:49	reggaemanu	mjg59, make the grab a gconf option by example ;)
06:49	mjg59	reggaemanu: Let's just make it work...
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06:50	lupine_85	won't work for default dapper, though - kde 3.5.2
06:50	lupine_85	it#'s 3.5.4 I think
06:50	iXce	wow Matthew Garett is here :)
06:50	gnomefreak	iXce: he is
06:50	reggaemanu	:)
06:50	iXce	that's great :)
06:51	mjg59	The bug could do with a better description of what the problem actually is
06:51	gnomefreak	is gconf still in compiz in ubuntu repos?
06:51	mjg59	Yes
06:51	gnomefreak	k
06:51	reggaemanu	gnomefreak, yeah
06:51	reggaemanu	that's the last release before it has been removed
06:52	gnomefreak	would it be any benifit to just leave the compiz to ubuntus repos instead of opening Quinn_Storm's for it?
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06:53	Quinn_Storm	gnomefreak: well, compiz-git is still such a moving target...and besides, for ubuntu, we're trying to move toward Beryl (at least that's the opinion I got from Mark)
06:53	mjg59	As Seb points out in that bug, setting LTSP_CLIENT will do what you want to do here in any csae
06:53	iXce	Quinn_Storm : even though beryl is full of "dirty" code and "hackish" workarounds? ^^
06:54	lupine_85	hehe
06:54	iXce	mjg59 : any hint on how to activate that LTSP thing please?
06:54	lupine_85	it will be if I start on it!
06:54	reggaemanu	^^
06:54	gnomefreak	iXce: im sure cleaning up would be a requirment befor eubuntu takes it
06:54	mjg59	iXce: Just make sure that LTSP_CLIENT is set in your environment
06:54	mjg59	Putting it in .gnomerc should do
06:54	iXce	and if i've got no .gnomerc?
06:54	mjg59	iXce: Create one? :)
06:54	lupine_85	.bashrc? .xsession ?
06:54	mjg59	I believe it's used by default
06:54	gnomefreak	compiz will have to stay around for a while anyway
06:55	iXce	mjg59 : great idea :p
06:55	iXce	gnomefreak : that's already one of the main goals of beryl
06:55	mjg59	In the end, it's likely that we'll go with whichever solution works best
06:55	iXce	documentation, debugging, code cleanup, usability ^^
06:55	Xnix	iXce what do you mean?
06:55	reggaemanu	so that's pretty like the hackish gandalfn patch, we have to put a line in .gnomerc
06:55	Xnix	iXce ahh k
06:56	mjg59	That's not really going to be a decision we make before part-way through the Edgy+1 cycle
06:56	mjg59	Mark's quite clearly keen on whatever gives us the most bling possible, but we'll see what's most effective for our users by then
06:56	mjg59	Bling's not going to come at the expense of reliability
06:57	gnomefreak	if we add beryl to ubuntu repos in future is it possible to get a login option in gdm/kdm/xdm?
06:57	Quinn_Storm	what he seems to like is the community aspect...he's not big on davidr's development model
06:57	iXce	mjg59 : i fully agree with that :)
06:57	reggaemanu	gnomefreak, that should be possible
06:58	gnomefreak	reggaemanu: that way people without much hacking can log in and out
06:58	reggaemanu	gnomefreak, we can also update gnome-wm to prefer beryl if composite is available and use metacity if not
06:58	gnomefreak	k
06:58	reggaemanu	that's what i use currently, and that's what it is done on suse
06:58	mjg59	So why doesn't gnome-session just check whether the compositing manager selection atom is set?
06:59	mjg59	That would seem the sensible thing to do
06:59	iXce	+1
06:59	gnomefreak	i agree also
06:59	reggaemanu	mjg59, on suse gnome-session is patched for that
06:59	mjg59	reggaemanu: Ok. Can you point me at the patch?
06:59	reggaemanu	it checks for the tfp extension
06:59	reggaemanu	mjg59, yeah, 2 seconds
06:59	mjg59	reggaemanu: Thanks
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06:59	mjg59	I'd rather have functionality depend on what's running, rather than a user-set environment variable
=== Camus_SoNiCo will leave soon and wants to know how to help on development
07:00	iXce	that's much more sensible :)
07:00	Xnix	yes
07:00	reggaemanu	i don't find where it was, i will jst upload them somewhere
07:01	gnomefreak	Camus_SoNiCo: i can get up with dbo and others and get a mail out to the ML on how to contribute/develop and who to talk to about it if people are willing to help
07:02	Camus_SoNiCo	gnomefreak, that will do for me but i think we should have wiki pages also
07:02	gnomefreak	Camus_SoNiCo: even motu can help you with packaging if that is what you really want help with
07:02	gnomefreak	Camus_SoNiCo: we will
07:02	iXce	hmm
07:02	mjg59	Ok
07:02	mjg59	By the way:
07:02	gnomefreak	Camus_SoNiCo: alot of wiki's will be poping up
07:02	iXce	is there a skilled web designer/programmer willing to help with beryl page?
07:03	mjg59	I'm not ideally suited to deal with bugs in compiz/beryl themselves
07:03	mjg59	But
07:03	Camus_SoNiCo	gnomefreak, great then
07:03	Xnix	wiki sounds good Camus_SoNiCo
07:03	Xnix	gnomefreak awesome (abouth the wikis)
07:03	mjg59	If people have issues with the integration of these packages with other packages in main, feel free to talk to me
07:03	lupine_85	one question - currently the unofficial beryl thread (in Edgy) is full of <random-hack-to-get-beryl-working-with-whatever>... is there any sane way to get some of them dealt with automagically?
07:03	mjg59	Like this gnome-session issue, for example
07:03	mjg59	Oh, yeah, while I'm at it
07:03	lupine_85	e.g. in #ubuntu-xgl ust now, someone missed out enabling the composite extension
07:04	reggaemanu	mjg59, here are all the patchs related to compiz/xgl they use, and the .src.rpm for gnome-session if you want to see the specs http://www.compiz.info/.gnome-session/
07:04	Camus_SoNiCo	Xnix, i think wikis can attract "isolated" devs...
07:04	Xnix	yeah
07:05	mjg59	reggaemanu: Ok, they don't seem to be doing this the way I want to do it
07:05	mjg59	Give me a minute and I'll test
=== Camus_SoNiCo leaves and says bye to all. Nice meeting :D
07:05	mjg59	Does the new nvidia stuff need --strict-binding?
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07:06	lupine_85	mjg59: where would I check that? I've never *Set* it...
07:06	gnomefreak	lupine_85: i dont know but if so soon is good (i have added a crap load of stuff to xorg.conf to get it working
07:06	iXce	oh yeah, about packaging, aceracer24 was ok to deal with amd64 packages
07:06	reggaemanu	mjg59, no that work with or without --strict-binding
07:07	mjg59	Ok
07:07	mjg59	So why does --indirect not imply --strict-binding?
07:08	lupine_85	it's stuff like setting composite "true" | composite "0" for nvidia | fglrx that i'm thinking of... people generally expect packages to do all the hard work for them ;)
07:08	mjg59	If you've got free drivers, you don't need to edit anything in xorg.conf
07:08	Xnix	yeah
07:08	iXce	mjg59 : even for intel chips?
07:08	mjg59	It would be nice if the proprietary vendors would deal with that
07:08	mjg59	iXce: That's what I use
07:09	iXce	oh :)
07:09	iXce	no XAAOffscreenPixmap then?
07:09	reggaemanu	lupine_85, composite is set to true by default now, and that works for nvidia/ati/intel aiglx/xgl/xorg so there's no need to change that
07:09	mjg59	iXce: That's handled magically
07:10	lupine_85	oh, right... I must be out of date ;)
07:10	iXce	great :)
07:10	Xnix	lupine_85 edgy?
07:10	lupine_85	yes
07:10	lupine_85	I meant in the knowledge stakes though
07:10	rodarvus	XAAOffscreenPixmap is handled automatically since version 1.6.1 (?) of the i810 driver
07:10	Xnix	hmm strange, mine was set by default
07:10	Xnix	lupine_85 ahh
07:10	lupine_85	but doesn't fglrx need it off?
07:10	lupine_85	erm, ignore me. 0=true, of course
07:10	mjg59	It's done in the X server
07:11	mjg59	Through a foul hack
07:11	reggaemanu	maybe we will have a good free nvidia driver soon :) ("nouveau" driver)
07:11	Xnix	alright i gotta head out guys, class over :P later
07:12	reggaemanu	i gotta buy cigarettes and eat something, see you after
07:14	iXce	cigarette killed everyone ^^
07:14	rodarvus	mjg59, ahn, you added this patch on 1:1.1.1-0ubuntu8
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07:15	mjg59	rodarvus: Yeah
07:15	ThiefOfBaghdad	Err.. am i late for the u-d-e meeting
07:15	rodarvus	(I was under the impression this was turned on by default on the intel driver recently, though)
07:15	gnomefreak	@schedule
07:15	Ubugtu	Schedule for Etc/UTC: Current meeting: Ubuntu Desktop Effects Team | 03 Oct 17:00: Community Council | 04 Oct 12:00: Edubuntu | 05 Oct 07:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 10 Oct 20:00: Technical Board | 11 Oct 20:00: Edubuntu
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07:16	tuxmaniac	clear
07:16	tuxmaniac	bah.. terminal
07:16	tuxmaniac	gnomefreak> hi. is it still on?
07:17	gnomefreak	ok i gotta go i will send DBO notes and we will see where we are
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07:17	tuxmaniac	gnomefreak> ok. good
07:17	iXce	not so much notes ^^
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07:18	tuxmaniac	:(
07:18	gnomefreak	iXce: i have a few notes :)
07:18	iXce	:)
07:18	tuxmaniac	gnomefreak> one small question
07:18	gnomefreak	tuxmaniac: yes?
07:18	tuxmaniac	Can the IRC Channel be changed to ubuntu-desktop-effects
07:18	tuxmaniac	rather than having it as ubuntu-xgl
07:18	tuxmaniac	was this discussed?
07:19	tuxmaniac	I mean ubuntu-xgl does not (atleast by name) consider the other ones that are around
07:19	tuxmaniac	Just a suggstion
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07:20	gnomefreak	tuxmaniac: that is something ive been meaning to get up with DBO about there will be a post to the ML after i talk to him
07:20	tuxmaniac	gnomefreak> great!
07:21	iXce	what's the ml?
07:21	Quinn_Storm	I've gotta head out guys
07:21	tuxmaniac	iXce> Mailing list
07:21	iXce	i mean, where is it?
07:21	Quinn_Storm	sleeptime
07:21	iXce	tuxmaniac : yeah i know :)
07:21	iXce	night quinn
07:21	iXce	arg
07:21	tuxmaniac	iXce> :P
07:21	stgraber	iXce: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop-effects
07:22	tuxmaniac	stgraber> you are quicker than me :D
07:22	stgraber	:)
07:22	iXce	thanks
07:22	stgraber	np
07:27	heno	are we still on the agenda somewhere?
07:29	mjg59	For reference, I've got a patch to gnome-session that I'm happy with now
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07:31	Laifen	re
07:31	iXce	hi Laifen
07:32	Laifen	Hi iXce
07:32	heno	mjg59: any idea how complicated it would be to pump AT-SPI info into compiz? (to allow cursor tracking say)
07:33	heno	currently the magnifier seems fairly static
07:33	mjg59	I'm not really sure how that's meant to work
07:34	mjg59	Keith Packard talked about it for a while and then found some other shiny thing
07:34	heno	as in the fuctionality or the implementation?
07:34	heno	right
07:34	mjg59	I honestly can't remember how much functionality at-spi has in this respect
07:34	heno	is that who I should poke about it?
07:34	mjg59	It's worth asking him
07:35	heno	anyone on this team deep enough into the code to manage that?
07:35	heno	or anyone likely to be at Mountain View?
07:36	iXce	Quinn_Storm and onestone
07:36	heno	iXce: thanks I'll try them too
07:37	iXce	it's about beryl, right?
07:37	heno	iXce: any sort of accelerated graphics will do
07:37	heno	it's about making a better magnifier for visually impaired people
07:38	heno	Has anyone here tried gnome-mag?
07:38	heno	in gnopernicus or Orca
07:38	heno	You'll see that it's very inferior to the compiz magnifier
07:38	heno	on performance
07:39	heno	But has a few crucial features
07:39	heno	see: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Accessibility/Specs/compiz-mag for more info
07:43	mjg59	reggaemanu: Uploaded
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07:45	reggaemanu	mjg59, gnome-session patched? :)
07:45	mjg59	Yes
07:45	reggaemanu	cool
07:45	givr1	mjg59: great
07:46	reggaemanu	there is still libwnck and add the java patch to xgl-xserver :p
07:46	reggaemanu	^^
07:47	mjg59	I thought we didn't have a working patch for libwnck yet?
07:47	reggaemanu	we have
07:47	reggaemanu	there is already a patched package in xgl.compiz.info repo
07:47	reggaemanu	but i have to repackage every time there is an update in ubuntu's repo, that's pretty boring
07:48	mjg59	reggaemanu: Didn't somebody say something about it not working properly in some cases?
07:48	mjg59	And can you point me to the bug/patch?
07:48	reggaemanu	mjg59, www.compiz.info/patches/libwnck
07:48	reggaemanu	and no there is definitively no problem
07:49	mjg59	reggaemanu: Those patches are large and undocumented
07:49	reggaemanu	it change nothing for non compiz users
07:49	mjg59	Have you got a pointer to the bug discussing the issue and why each of those is required?
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07:50	reggaemanu	mjg59, the above patch fix the on top menu entry for compiz (by default it is greyd since libwnck don't have a above hint)
07:51	reggaemanu	mjg59, viewport add viewport entries like workspaces ones with metacity
07:51	reggaemanu	window move is needed for the viewport patch
07:51	mjg59	reggaemanu: Wait. Why do we need viewport support?
07:51	iXce	mjg59 : because the so-great davidr choosed that :/
07:52	mjg59	I'm not going to be responsible for reintroducing this distinction into wnck
07:52	mjg59	We have desktops.
07:52	reggaemanu	mjg59, compiz/beryl don't have workspace, it is vewports (as in freedesktop specs)
07:52	mjg59	What's the difference between desktops and viewports?
07:52	reggaemanu	a workspace can contain many viewports
07:53	mjg59	Will this ever actually happen?
07:53	mjg59	I mean, will anyone we actually care about ever have a setup where there's a meaningful distinction between the two?
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07:54	reggaemanu	compiz use only one workspace with many viewport, like it should be (e.g. freedesktop specs), metacity and kde don't follow fdo specs
07:54	mjg59	No, that doesn't answer my question
07:54	mjg59	Is there any situation in which a user is going to have both workspaces and viewports?
07:54	mjg59	(As in, more than one of each)
07:55	reggaemanu	we don't care about the distinction, the fact is that with compiz, there is no entry to move the window on another workspace/viewport since it handle only workspace and there is only one workspace
07:55	mjg59	So remove all references in user-visible strings to "viewport" and replace them with "workspace"
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07:55	mjg59	"Viewport" is an utterly meaningless term to users
07:56	lupine_85	the distinction is important if you run KDE :(
07:56	mjg59	Oh argh.
07:57	lupine_85	standard kicker works with workspaces, not viewports
07:57	mjg59	Ok. I am not uploading anything that will make the term "viewport" appear in the UI.
07:57	lupine_85	sensible :). meant nothing to me until I looked it up
07:58	mjg59	So the distinction is that a workspace is a logically distinct thing, and viewports are segregated on-screen areas of a workspace. Windows can overlap different viewports, but not workspaces.
07:58	mjg59	Is that right?
07:59	reggaemanu	mjg59, the original threads where david reveman have post theses patch http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/compiz/2006-April/000117.html
07:59	reggaemanu	(those i have sent to you are the originals ones ported to libwnck 2.16, except the apperance patch that replace the opacity one, more complete)
07:59	mjg59	Ridiculous hatred
08:00	mjg59	What does the appearance one actually do?
08:00	mjg59	Set opacity with wnck?
08:01	mjg59	Neat toy. So not getting in :)
08:01	iXce	appearance is for opacity, saturation and brightness i think
08:01	reggaemanu	mjg59, it add this menu entrie if the wm support the opacity hint ://static.flickr.com/65/199540689_00b3dfbb74.jpg
08:02	reggaemanu	http://static.flickr.com/65/199540689_00b3dfbb74.jp
08:02	reggaemanu	erf
08:02	reggaemanu	http://static.flickr.com/65/199540689_00b3dfbb74.jpg
08:02	reggaemanu	_
08:03	mjg59	Ok
08:03	mjg59	I'm reasonably happy with most of them other than the appearance one
08:04	mjg59	I'll see if I can sneak them in
08:05	reggaemanu	there is an opened bug (by a libwnck dev) on bugzilla.gnome.org about these patchs but there is no reply
08:05	reggaemanu	that should be great, although if you don't add the apperance patch people will continu to use the non official package :)
08:05	reggaemanu	everybody use it since before dapper
08:06	reggaemanu	and i'm tired to re-package it everytime
08:07	reggaemanu	it's not a really important patch that's true
08:07	reggaemanu	but users like that :/
08:07	reggaemanu	anyway, i'm gotta eat, be back later
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08:38	Xnix	reggaemanu so edgy gnome-sessios shold be patched now?
08:38	mjg59	Xnix: Yes
08:39	Xnix	mjg59 awesome :D
08:39	Xnix	and those libwnck except the appearance one? or not yet
08:40	mjg59	Not yet
08:40	Xnix	alright
08:41	Xnix	thanks
...
}}}