{{{

   11:02 mdke shall we meet?
   11:02 LaserJock are we ready for some FUN?
   11:02 robotgeek here
   11:02 trappist let's do it
   11:03 Burgwork for certain values of fun
   11:03 mdke ok, is there an agenda?
   11:03 Burgwork nope, but I have some points to raise
   11:03 trappist I didn't see a reference to one
   11:03 mdke https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/MeetingAgenda
   11:03 LaserJock https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/MeetingAgenda has an item about that *other* DE
   11:03 mdke Burgwork, stick em on the page
   11:03 mdke LaserJock, ewww
   11:04 mdke shall we start with a basic overview of where documents are at? that might be useful?
   11:05 robotgeek https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/Projects is the main page :)
   11:05 robotgeek http://doc.ubuntu.com/kubuntu/status/kdg-report.html is the status report for Kubuntu Desktop Guide
   11:06 mdke robotgeek, what sections are struggling?
   11:06 robotgeek i really need help in the "Hardware" section, as i don't own any of those devices
   11:07 trappist what hardware needs help?
   11:07 robotgeek the "Configuring your system" needs some love in the networking section, i am working on it though
   11:08 robotgeek palms, digital camera and cell phones
   11:08 trappist bleh, I don't have those either
   11:08 mdke ok, the second of those sounds important
   11:08 mdke isn't it just "plug in"
   11:08 trappist should we solicit help from #kubuntu from somebody who does?
   === harisund [n=harisund@ip24-255-87-152.br.br.cox.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
   11:08 robotgeek yeah, but i can't verify anything without the hardware
   11:08 mdke good plan trappist
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   11:09 mdke harass jjesse about it
   11:10 robotgeek jjesse might be the man
   11:10 robotgeek jjesse: need help with hardware in kubuntu :)
   11:10 jjesse sorry missed it
   11:10 jjesse sure i'll tackle it robotgeek
   11:11 robotgeek great!
   11:11 jjesse is that the biggest section you need robotgeek for the desktopguide
   11:12 robotgeek other than that, i think everything is done.
   11:12 robotgeek i am proofreading too, and made a bunch of changes yesterday
   === LaserJock shoots an envious glance at robotgeek
   11:12 robotgeek LaserJock: my work was easier as I had the UDG to rely on
   11:13 mdke nice work
   11:13 mdke i think the UDG is in reasonable shape, barring any last minute tidying up
   11:13 trappist I laid backed off the apache stuff in the serverguide when that new guy offered himself up, but I don't recall hearing from him since then
   11:13 trappist s/laid//
   11:14 mdke new guy?
   === trappist checks logs
   11:14 mdke might have been me
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   11:15 LaserJock yep, mdke is the new guy for sure ;-)
   11:15 robotgeek heh
   11:15 trappist k31th
   11:15 mdke oh right
   11:15 mdke he won't do anything
   11:15 mdke he's been showing up saying he'll write stuff for a number of release cycles :)
   11:16 trappist that's probably the safe assumption.  I've been spending my spare time on bugs since he said that.  I'll try to find some time this weekend for apache.  we still need help on wireless.
   11:16 trappist except, does wireless belong in the serverguide?
   11:16 mdke what is the wireless bit about?
   11:16 mdke i was gonna say...
   11:17 trappist it's part of the network configuration section
   11:17 robotgeek the wiki has nice guides
   11:17 trappist shall we just get rid of it?
   11:17 trappist robotgeek: I've heard that's true
   11:17 robotgeek trappist: is the section about making your computer a wireless hub (exotic)
   11:17 trappist plus we have the new network-manager with wpa goodness and stuff
   11:17 trappist robotgeek: no
   11:17 trappist there is no such section
   11:17 trappist it's just a network config section
   11:17 mdke trappist, unless it's about making an AP or something, i say we nuke it
   11:17 trappist agreed
   11:18 robotgeek trappist: yeah, it doesn't belong in the server guide :)
   11:19 mdke ok, so the apache section needs some work for virtual hosts, and general reviewing
   11:19 trappist mdke: what I saw in virtual hosts made me worry that the rest might need a lot of work too, but I haven't looked more closely yet
   11:19 robotgeek oh, btw the k31th guy also offered to write some Flight stuff for Kubuntu (havent heard from him)
   === neuralis raises his hand for a question when you folks have a second.
   11:19 mdke trappist, yes, how was the rest of the stuff you read?
   11:19 mdke neuralis, shoot
   11:20 trappist mdke: didn't read the rest.  I read the vhost stuff and got freaked out and mailed the list
   11:20 neuralis mdke: are you guys preparing in any way for the official book release? there'll be a book worth of content to plaster on the web somewhere, probably in an editable, wiki-like environment.
   11:20 mdke neuralis, no, that's not related to us
   11:21 mdke oh you mean by publishing the book itself?
   11:21 neuralis mdke: no. when the book is released, it becomes gfdl/cc-licensed documentation.
   11:21 mdke Burgwork, is that your licence?
   11:21 neuralis mdke: yes.
   11:21 neuralis mdke: i'm one of the authors.
   11:21 Burgwork mdke, neuralis is writing the server chapter
   11:21 mdke ah, you're ivan!
   11:22 neuralis mdke: yes, pleased to meet you.
   11:22 mdke same
   11:22 jjesse neuralis: i'm writing the kubuntu chapter :)
   11:22 mdke i assumed that the publishers would be publishing the book online
   11:22 neuralis mdke: now, what i was saying -- you'll at some point get a dump of the chapters that you're free to use.
   11:22 neuralis mdke: what makes the most sense, imo, is to create a separate documentation wiki and import the book there.
   11:22 neuralis then open up the wiki to the public.
   11:23 mdke neuralis, a second documentation wiki?
   11:23 neuralis jjesse: cool!
   11:23 Burgwork neuralis, are we certain it is going to be gfdl as well. I only saw the ccbysa on the last complete draft
   11:23 jjesse i didn't know that was happening
   11:23 neuralis mdke: is there a separate dociwki already?
   11:23 neuralis Burgwork: according to mako, it's gfdl+cc.
   11:23 mdke neuralis, no, there is documentation on the main wiki. But we're hoping to move it
   11:23 Burgwork neuralis,
   11:23 Burgwork I would rather munge the book into the desktop guide post dapper
   11:23 neuralis mdke: right. it just shouldn't mix with the regular w.u.c wiki.
   11:24 Burgwork rahter than put it on the wiki
   11:24 neuralis Burgwork: well, there's content in there that doesn't really belong in the desktop guide (i hear some dude is writing a server chapter).
   11:24 mdke neuralis, i'd also hesitate to mix it with our documentation, it would get very confusing
   11:24 jjesse that would work in the servguide
   11:24 neuralis Burgwork: and you want to benefit from the community continuing to update the material.
   11:24 mdke neuralis, we have a server guide too...
   11:24 Burgwork neuralis, the communtiy can touch the desktop guide
   11:24 Burgwork desktop guide wins us translation and pdf format
   11:24 neuralis mdke, Burgwork: i'll support whatever you choose to do with the content, but there's importance in a low barrier of entry to people continuing to work on the material.
   11:25 neuralis going much above "log into the wiki and edit" is not a good idea.
   11:25 mdke neuralis, well, if we could work only on a wiki, we would. But we can't for the distro documentation
   11:25 Burgwork I would rather work on getting an easy way for people to work on docbook
   11:25 jjesse +1 Burgwork
   11:25 trappist man would that be nice
   11:25 Burgwork because that would win us a lot more than just one guide
   11:25 neuralis docudo promises to do this.
   11:26 Burgwork we should investgate that doc editor done for gnome by google soc
   11:26 trappist I tried installing XMetaL via wine but it didn't happen
   11:26 Burgwork that was online
   11:26 neuralis http://www.checkandshare.com/blog/?p=42
   11:27 mdke i am a fan of the idea of using bits of the book for the various guides and wiki articles, but publishing it alongside might cause too much overlap
   11:27 neuralis seems promising; the docteam should get involved with the project and helping them spec it out so you can use it for your needs.
   11:27 neuralis s/helping/help/
   11:27 Burgwork mdke, we should look at restructuring hte desktop guide to allow easy publishing of it, instead of the official book
   11:28 Burgwork ie, use the desktop guide as the target for any future book publishing
   11:28 mdke that would be nice.
   11:28 neuralis Burgwork, mdke: anyway, i'll let you guys return to your regularly scheduled programming. i wanted to bring up the issue so i know you guys are thinking about it.
   11:28 mdke neuralis, while you're here. Have you got time to have a quick look at the server guide over the next week or so? It has been a bit neglected and we'd love some input on what sort of state it is in
   11:28 Burgwork neuralis, np. I has been in my thought process for a few months yet
   11:28 mdke neuralis, yep, thanks for raising it
   11:28 neuralis mdke: i'm totally unavailable until the week after this one.
   11:29 mdke neuralis, fair enough, thanks anyway
   11:29 mdke I'll read your chapter and see if our guide is anywhere near accurate :)
   11:29 neuralis mdke: there's a big difference in scope between my chapter and the server guide, last i looked at it.
   11:29 mdke sure
   11:30 neuralis ok, i'm disappearing. thanks, folks.
   11:30 mdke thanks
   11:30 mdke where were we at?
   11:30 LaserJock Kubuntu Desktop Guide status? or are we done with that
   11:31 mdke i think so, jjesse and robotgeek are gonna team up and kick ass
   11:31 robotgeek nuking wireless section in server guide
   11:31 jjesse i thought we were done with that?
   11:31 jjesse mdke thanks for the vote of confidence :)
   11:31 robotgeek :)
   11:31 trappist unknown just how much work apache needs in serverguide
   11:31 mdke ok, nuke the wireless, check to see if the server guide is ok
   11:32 mdke ubuntu desktop guide
   11:32 mdke Burgwork, you had an item on it?
   11:33 Burgwork yep
   === Blippe [n=henryson@1-1-11-41a.f.sth.bostream.se] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
   11:33 mdke Burgwork, go ahead
   11:34 Burgwork I am going to do a complete review of the desktop guide this weekend, but I need to make certain I am not stepping on anybodies toes
   11:34 mdke cool
   11:34 jjesse both the kubuntu and ubuntu or just ubuntu?
   11:34 Burgwork just ubuntu
   11:34 Burgwork are there any parts I shouldn't touch?
   11:34 mdke Burgwork, what sort of stepping did you have in mind?
   11:35 jjesse ok then when i lock myself in my office to finish my kubuntu chapter i'll review the desktopguide as well
   11:35 Burgwork I see some bits that need some rearrangement and merging
   11:35 robotgeek thanks jjesse
   11:35 mdke i think i'd prefer it if you tell me or burger senior about rearranging the structure
   11:36 mdke but we can always just check your commit logs
   11:36 Burgwork hmm, maybe I should sit down with my brother and hash it out
   11:36 Burgwork advantage of living in the same town as him
   11:36 mdke heh yeah that would rock
   11:37 Burgwork is he the primary author? I haven't truly been paying attention, due to other things
   11:37 LaserJock the Burger Doc Sprint ?
   11:37 mdke Burgwork, him and me are maintaining it
   11:37 Burgwork ok
   11:37 jjesse mmmm burgers sound good for dinner
   11:37 mdke ok, look forward to Corey's contribution on UDG
   11:38 mdke LaserJock, PG?
   11:38 LaserJock http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/status/pg-report.html
   11:38 mdke looks promising
   11:38 LaserJock + Chroot Environment -> Awaiting Review
   11:38 mdke CDBS is big stuff isn't it?
   11:39 LaserJock + Updating Packages -> In Progress
   11:39 LaserJock well, yes and no
   11:39 LaserJock CDBS is simple to use, if it works
   11:39 LaserJock I was planning on just doing a brief into and mostly reference the Duckcorp guide
   11:40 LaserJock mostly because I've never used CDBS before
   11:40 LaserJock but I got raphink to help me with that
   11:40 LaserJock also the Kubuntu stuff
   11:40 mdke cool, sounds like you're on track
   11:40 LaserJock well, I'm very worried about it but I'm trying my best
   11:41 mdke if you need to take a bit more time over it, I'm sure it won't be a problem
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   11:41 jjesse how can we help review it?
   11:41 jjesse as i don't know anything about packaging :)
   11:41 LaserJock you guys should just review anything that is "Awaiting Review" on the status report
   11:42 LaserJock I'm targeting more advanced users without any packaging experience
   11:42 LaserJock but I use the CLI heavily
   11:42 LaserJock so if you guys can catch grammar and spelling
   11:43 LaserJock and also where I'm putting to much jargon in, etc. that would be very helpful
   11:43 mdke cool
   11:43 mdke anything else on this?
   11:43 LaserJock after I'm reasonably done (this weekend, I'm pretty sure)  I'm going to send an email to -motu and -devel and ask for review from developers
   11:44 LaserJock really, the Introduction, Getting Started and Bugs chapters should be pretty easy to get through for people with no packaging experience
   11:45 LaserJock so if I can get some fresh eyes to tell me when I'm going too easy or too hard that would be useful
   11:46 LaserJock that's pretty much it for the Packaging Guide for now
   11:46 mdke ok thanks LaserJock
   11:46 mdke any other docs to discuss?
   11:46 LaserJock If I may, can I bring up a quick licensing issue?
   11:46 mdke sure
   11:47 mdke in passing, kubuntu release notes hasn't been converted to the new world order for contributor attribution
   11:47 mdke nor has ubuntu release notes
   11:47 robotgeek mdke: who maintains the one for kubuntu? jjesse ?
   11:48 mdke dunno
   11:48 jjesse i do
   11:48 jjesse i'm behind :(
   11:48 LaserJock Somebody, I can't remember who, was on #ubuntu-doc the other day and wanted to contribute material from Wikipedia to either the wiki and/or docs but wasn't sure if he could because of the wiki license
   11:48 mdke oh yeah, i read that
   11:48 LaserJock is that an issue?
   11:49 mdke if the licensing is moved to Public domain, he's right that he can't copy from wikipedia
   11:49 mdke personally, I think that's fine
   11:50 robotgeek jjesse: we some time on that, right?
   11:50 jjesse yes we do have sometime
   11:50 mdke anyhow, you can't copy from wikipedia without correct attribution, etc, etc
   11:52 LaserJock so why would our wiki be different?
   11:52 mdke because it would be in the public domain
   11:52 mdke wikipedia is under copyright
   11:52 LaserJock hmm
   11:52 mdke subject to the GFDL licence
   11:53 mdke any more agenda action? bed calls
   11:54 Burgwork nope
   11:55 LaserJock I think PD is better but it stinks that we can't share content
   11:55 mdke LaserJock, eh?
   11:55 mdke sharing the content is the whole point of moving
   11:57 LaserJock mdke: moving content from wikipedia to our wiki is what I mean
   11:57 mdke oh right. you have to get wikipedia to move to PD :)
   11:58 LaserJock what about from our docs to the wiki?
   11:58 LaserJock I know that usually it goes the other way around, but
   11:58 LaserJock I wonder if there would be a case for people making wiki pages that incorporate material from the docs
   11:58 mdke you have to get us to move to PD
   11:59 mdke :)
   11:59 LaserJock lol, can't see that happening
   11:59 LaserJock ok, I gotta go. I've got a meeting
   11:59 mdke see ya
   12:00 mdke bye all

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