- Status of d80211 inclusion (in addition to bcm43xx status).
- Kyle will work on syncing newer d80211 stack and testing.
- Status of Unionfs. Discuss whether to include Unionfs 2.0 in Feisty kernel.
Bug in question is: [WWW] https://launchpad.net/bugs/85145
- Unionfs 2.0 is too big of a change this close to release.
- Phillip to work on isolating fix to backport to our current code.
- Discussion of bug triaging methods and policy.
- Ben will work on wiki howto to detail our current policy.
- Assessment of current bug list.
- It's huge. Work will begin to lower the unconfirmed and unassigned list.
- Open Discussion.
05:00 BenC Just waiting on rtg 05:01 pochu BenC: is there an agenda? 05:01 BenC https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting 05:01 BenC Agenda is there 05:02 BenC Ok, time to start 05:02 BenC First, I want to thank anyone from the community who is joining us 05:03 BenC This is the first of our team meetings, and hopefully it will turn into a means of us organizing with the community better, and bring in new people to help out 05:03 BenC In case anyone missed it, the agenda is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting 05:04 BenC I was hoping mjg59 would be here for the first item, so we'll skip to the second in case he shows up later on 05:04 BenC pkl_: You added the second item: Status of Unionfs. Discuss whether to include Unionfs 2.0 in Feisty kernel. 05:04 pkl_ Yeah... 05:05 pkl_ A bug has been raised against the current version of Unionfs (just getting it). 05:06 BenC pkl_: Does the bug affect just feisty, or does this affect edgy and prior as well? 05:06 pkl_ #85145... 05:06 BenC bug 85145 Ubugtu Malone bug 85145 in linux-source-2.6.20 "run-init crashes when root is unionfs on nfs" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/85145 05:06 zul oh this is the initramfs thingy? 05:07 pkl_ It was raised against initamfs, but it isn't anything to do with it. 05:07 BenC So dapper is ok, it's just feisty 05:07 pkl_ It is a pure Unionfs on NFS branch bug. Recent changes (post 2.6.18) means NFS oopses on a NULL pointer. 05:08 BenC I wonder if this has anything to do with some of the fs changes I had to do during .19/.20 05:08 zul couldnt you just backport the fix rather than updating to 2.0? 05:08 BenC so is the bug NFS or unionfs? Is updating to unionfs just working around the real bug? 05:08 pkl_ This has been fixed, but, only in Unionfs 2.0. A new call lookup_one_len_nd has been added. 05:09 pkl_ Very difficult question to answer BenC: Both the Unionfs and NFS people has engaged in a lot of finger pointing... 05:10 BenC Ah, upstream politics 05:10 pkl_ But the major issue appears to be recent NFSv4 changes. 05:10 BenC pkl_: Unionfs is used quite a bit in our livecd's, and I would prefer this late in the game not to bump major versions on it 05:10 BenC pkl_: Is the fix easily isolated? 05:11 pkl_ I'll see if I can back port the essential fix (which is to add and use lookup_one_len_nd() which passes the necessary pointer) to 1.2 Unionfs. 05:12 pkl_ This essentially should be all that's required. 05:12 BenC pkl_: Ok, sounds like a good plan 05:12 BenC Looks like mjg59 wont be able to make it, so we'll cover d80211 sans his expertise 05:13 BenC _kyle: You have some newer crack than I have in the repo...how's that coming? 05:13 _kyle good, i'm going to push it into a branch for you to look at in about 5 seconds. 05:14 BenC flash-kyle 05:14 BenC _kyle: Do you have any hw to test the drivers using it? 05:14 _kyle er, unless i accidently nuked that tree... err... 05:14 _kyle BenC: bcm43xx 05:14 Nafallo _kyle: <3 backup 05:14 BenC I was going to do a 2.6.20-9 upload today, but if you think you can get d80211 working, I can hold off 05:14 _kyle i have an atheros card too, but it's minipci, and gutting my thinkpad is always a pain. 05:15 _kyle BenC: when do you intend to upload next after this? 05:15 BenC hopefully over the weekend 05:15 BenC uploads have been getting too far apart, I need to make them more frequent 05:16 _kyle ok. i have some hppa crack to push for jeff so we can have a buildable. 05:16 BenC _kyle: FYI, the bcm43xx-dscpape driver lacks a MODULE_DEV_TABLE, so if you want to use it, just manually load it (after unloading the bcm43xx driver) 05:17 _kyle yeah, i saw those commits. 05:17 BenC Ok, let's move on to what I know is everyone's favorite subject...bugs 05:17 zul yippe skippe 05:18 BenC I didn't have time to write up a "how to triage" bugs, but there's plenty of them on the ubuntu wiki for general bug work, and the kernel isn't much different 05:19 BenC Basically what we need to aim for is to not let the untriaged bug list get so big 05:19 zul what is the list at now? 05:19 BenC it's safe to assume we wont be able to fix all the bugs, because we either don't have hardware where the bug is occurring, or it's the type of bug that happened once, and will never happen again 05:19 BenC zul: ~250 when I checked last night (2.6.20) 05:20 pkl_ that's all bugs, right? 05:20 BenC But what I want to make sure is that we at least respond to all incoming bugs 05:20 BenC pkl_: All open bugs on 2.6.20 kernel 05:21 BenC For those that aren't aware, I've been working with launchpad folks to try and get some features in that will make bug triaging a lot easier 05:21 pkl_ A response along the lines of "go away we're not going to fix this" is better than no response? 05:22 BenC pkl_: A little better wording, but pretty much :) 05:23 BenC The main thing for a new bug right now is getting all the normal information (dmesg, screen photo of it's a solid lock with traceback, lspci, etc) 05:23 zul please no automated bug scripts as well 05:23 BenC 9 times out of 10, the bugs just don't have enough info 05:24 BenC Yeah, make sure you ask for information pertinent to the bug 05:24 BenC we don't need dmidecode when someone's ext3 partition gets corrupt 05:25 BenC The second step after getting the info is to classify the severity, there's a wiki with severity ratings (someone will paste it in a few minutes I'm sure) 05:25 BenC Once all the info is collected, set the status (confirmed, most times) 05:25 BenC During this process, once you take on triaging a bug, assign it to yourself 05:26 BenC Once you start working on it, set it to In Progress, etc...Once it's in git, set it to fix committed, and once we upload it, set it to fix released 05:27 BenC Any bug that is marked Confirmed and Importance > Medium should be fixed asap 05:27 Mithrandir and if it's important to get fixed before release, please assign either the next milestone to it or 7.04 if it's not possible to get done before the next milestone. 05:27 BenC either by yourself, or bringing it up to the rest of the team 05:27 BenC Correct 05:27 Mithrandir (7.10 for feisty+1, etc, naturally) 05:28 zul how long per day should we spend on bug hunting (kernel team vs community)? 05:28 BenC zul: Community is welcome to work on it as long as they want :) 05:29 BenC I would expect core kernel team to spend some time on it every day, probably set aside 1-2 hours for just triaging, and more as needed for actual debug 05:30 fdoving looks like the bcm43xx item is done already, but for whom it may concern bug 85404 is reported by Michael Buesch concerning the state of bcm43xx in the recent feisty kernel. 05:30 Ubugtu Malone bug 85404 in linux-source-2.6.20 "bcm43xx completely broken in feisty" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/85404 05:31 BenC fdoving: Yes, we're aware of it, and it is fixed in git 05:31 BenC pkl_, _kyle, rtg: Any questions? 05:31 fdoving good, thanks :) 05:31 _kyle nyet. 05:31 rtg Nope. 05:31 pkl_ no 05:31 BenC Ok, let's get down to the nitty gritty of the 2.6.20 bug list :) 05:32 BenC 263 bugs, 122 unconfirmed, 233 unassigned 05:33 BenC How many does everyone have assigned to themselves? 05:34 zul no idea :) 05:34 rtg I've been working on the various suspend problems, but have not assigned any to myself yet. 05:34 BenC Only 30 bugs assigned :) 05:35 pkl_ I've working through a number, but have not assigned any to myself. 05:35 BenC Assigning it to yourself doesn't mean you are committing to fix it 05:35 BenC So let's work on getting that 122 and 233 down to near nothing by the end of next week 05:36 pkl_ OK. What does assigning it signify? 05:36 BenC the 122 is where community can help the most (confirming bugs by getting all relevant info to reproduce and/or debug it) 05:36 zul sure.. 05:37 BenC pkl_: Means you are giving the submitter someone to talk to about the bug 05:37 pkl_ Ah good. Terminology strikes again. In many previous roles. assigning it basically takes an 'exclusive lock' on the bug. 05:37 BenC you get the info you need to debug it, and keep them up-to-date on the status via the bug status. milestone and comments 05:39 BenC I would say if the bug gets to the point where you know it's confirmed, and you cannot fix it, then assign it to the ubuntu-kernel-team in general 05:40 BenC we'll consider those bugs for discussion at meetings, or when time permits during normal hours 05:41 BenC Community can do that as well, if the bug has all relevant info, we can pull from the ubuntu-kernel-team assigned list to assign to ourselves 05:41 BenC I'm going to action item me to detail all this on the KernelTeam wiki 05:42 BenC Any questions, comments? 05:42 zul nope 05:43 pkl_ No, I'm happy. 05:43 BenC Ok, we have about 18 minutes left if anyone has anything to bring up 05:43 BenC This is also a good time for community to ask the kernel-team any questions 05:43 zul i just want to confirm the kernel for feisty+1 05:43 cbx33 can I ask a question? 05:44 BenC zul: We'll make that decision in Seville 05:44 zul .22? 05:44 BenC zul: It could be .23, depends on time frame 05:44 BenC cbx33: Sure 05:44 cbx33 I'm still running edgy, but i cannot suspend it gnome-network-manager is running with ndiswrapper 05:44 cbx33 is this common? 05:45 cbx33 it just locks with gnome-screensaver instead 05:45 BenC cbx33: This is a better question for #ubuntu-kernel, but yes, ndiswrapper is notoriously sucky...it is running win32 code afterall 05:45 cbx33 ok 05:45 cbx33 that's fine 05:45 cbx33 another question 05:46 cbx33 I work in a school and am a contributor to Edubuntu 05:46 abogani BenC: Only one question (yes or no type): Do you think that my work on my spec (https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/realtime) will be useful in the future? Thank you 05:46 cbx33 I want to get some interactive whiteboards working in edubuntu, how hard is it to write a device driver? 05:47 BenC abogani: Absolutely...I have to say that the stock Ubuntu kernel cannot take on the RT patchset until it is merged with Linus' tree though. However a separate kernel like what is done for xen is entirely possible. 05:47 cbx33 abogani, don't the ubuntu-studio guys have a low latency kernel? 05:48 BenC cbx33: It all depends on if the specs are available for the device. There's the Linux Device Drivers manual available freely on the internet 05:48 cbx33 ok 05:48 pochu I have a little question (don't know if it's stupid): will we support wpa out-of-the-box? :-) 05:48 cbx33 thanks BenC 05:48 crimsun there is a -lowlatency* set (universe & multiverse), yes 05:48 Mithrandir the archive team is not going to accept random kernels nilly-willy and as a start, they have to be done as patch sets against linux-source-$version 05:48 BenC cbx33: See the KernelTeam/FAQ wiki about patches like -rt :) 05:48 crimsun pochu: (already do via NM for some chipsets.) 05:48 BenC it details what Mith said aswell 05:48 zul Mithrandir: that will happen for feisty+1 with xen fyi 05:49 Mithrandir zul: good to hear. 05:49 BenC xen, the butt of all jokes 05:49 zul thanks.. 05:50 crimsun 'unconfirmed' audio bugs against linux-source-2.6.20 are now triaged. 05:51 BenC crimsun: BTW, you rock...thanks for keeping up with audio bugs and patches 05:51 BenC Any more random questions? 05:52 BenC pkl_, _kyle, rtg: Anything to add? 05:52 _kyle nope. 05:52 pkl_ no. 05:52 rtg Lots 'o bugs to look at. 05:53 dholbach Was that the first Kernel Team meeting? 05:53 pochu dholbach: yes 05:53 BenC dholbach: The first public one 05:53 dholbach Congratulations! I hope you'll attract a lot of community people to it! 05:53 BenC we've been doing secret-hand-shake meetings for a few weeks already :) 05:53 BenC dholbach: Thanks 05:53 dholbach Coooool :) 05:54 BenC Ok, thanks to everyone for coming, especially to the community members 05:54 zul no probs 05:54 BenC adios all 05:54 abogani BenC: thanks again 05:55 cbx33 it was great to see BenC 05:55 cbx33 really good idea ;) 05:55 cbx33 and I like the community bit at the end