Kubuntu_2006-03-16
09:00 raphink hi
09:00 allee ho
09:01 raphink hi allee
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09:01 raphink hi Lure
09:02 Riddell evening all
09:02 Lure hi raphink
09:02 raphink :)
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09:03 raphink meeting now?*
09:03 Riddell certainly is
09:03 robotgeek hey Riddell raphink :)
09:03 raphink who is there for it?
09:03 raphink hi robotgeek
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=== toma is tom albers
=== robotgeek is in for voting sprees and getting the latest on what's going to happen
=== robotgeek is VenkatRaghavan
=== Tm_T hides
=== Riddell is Jonathan Riddell
09:04 allee allee is Achim Bohnet
=== raphink is Raphal Pinson
=== Lure is Luka Renko
=== Tm_T is Jussi Kekkonen
09:04 Riddell no hobbbsee or jpatrick
09:04 Riddell Lure: are you LukaRenko?
09:04 Lure yep
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09:05 Riddell good, glad one person with agenda items turned up :)
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09:05 raphink hehe
09:05 raphink good thing indeed
09:05 Tm_T 13:47 < Hobbsee> night all...see you at 7am my time, 20.00 UTC
09:05 Tm_T ;)
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09:05 raphink hopefully she'll be here by the minute
09:05 raphink heh
09:05 raphink ;)
09:05 raphink there
09:05 Tm_T haha
09:05 Hobbsee hey everyone!
09:05 raphink well done Tm_T ;)
09:05 Hobbsee hehe
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09:05 raphink hi Hobbsee
09:06 Hobbsee my machine thought actually booting up was overrated...
09:06 Lure hi Hobbsee
09:06 raphink hehe
09:06 Hobbsee hey Lure and raphink
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09:06 Hobbsee it booted the *third* time!
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09:06 Riddell hmm, no tonio or jpatrick for this first item
09:07 raphink i'll call tonio
09:07 Riddell agenda is at https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Meetings
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09:07 Riddell so second item is from Hobbsee?
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09:07 Hobbsee ah, yeah
09:07 raphink tonio is coming
09:08 Hobbsee do we want to wait for tonio?
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09:08 Riddell Hobbsee: no, on you go
09:08 Hobbsee how many people do we have this morning?
09:08 raphink Hobbsee: I just called him he's coming
09:08 Hobbsee okay
09:08 raphink but you can begin
09:08 Riddell Hobbsee: at least seven I count
09:08 Hobbsee well, after last meeting, i checked out knemo - it looks pretty
useful. have people checked this out at all?
09:09 jjesse i'm here now
09:09 raphink kwwii: are you there?
09:09 robotgeek i'm not a dev, but i'm here for LukaRenko's point
09:09 apokryphos knemo is very cool; worked when I tried it last on dapper IIRC
09:09 Hobbsee how does it go on your system, in terms of cpu?
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09:09 kwwii raphink: yepp
09:09 raphink kwwii: good :)
09:09 apokryphos knemo is never really server intensive :P
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09:09 robotgeek Hobbsee: i use it, it seems fine
09:09 Hobbsee I suggest that we have a revote on it, as more people have now had
time to test
09:09 raphink knemo is very light
09:10 Hobbsee Luka mentioned that it was cpu heavy, hence the question
09:10 raphink it is useful, informative and doesn't crash
09:10 raphink ah?
09:10 Lure I do not object in including it by default (I can turn it on), but it
has impact on power management
09:10 allee I use knemo for more than a year. CPU ~ 2 -3 % with min freq
09:10 raphink on power management Lure?
09:10 raphink how so?
09:10 Lure s/on/off/
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09:10 Tonio__ hi ;)
09:10 Tonio__ sorry for beeing a bit late
09:10 raphink Lure: the version that is in dapper? or the newest one?
=== apokryphos has to go out for quite a bit, but for the record I totally agree with the
Description (Name) formulation for the K-menu
09:10 Lure CPU load of 3-4% when on low CPU freq
09:10 raphink hi Tonio__
09:10 Riddell do we have a main inclustion report for knemo?
09:11 Lure raphink: Dapper version
09:11 Riddell yes, https://wiki.kubuntu.org/MainInclusionReportKNemo
=== apokryphos *always* has knemo on. Not intensive :P
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09:11 raphink Lure: doesn't the dapper version only watch the connections?
09:11 Tonio__ Riddell: no news on that point, knemo is still universe, and I can
confirm Lure's bug
09:11 Lure apokryphos: it is not intensive (that you would feel), but on lightly
loaded system it uses same CPU time as xorg
09:12 Riddell doesn't knemo conflict with wlanassistant in terms of systray space?
09:12 Hobbsee hey Tonio_
09:12 Tonio_ Riddell: wlassistant doesn't fit in the systray
09:12 allee knemo has customizable menu. If we will make use of it (??) that's
something knetdock apps has not
09:12 Lure Riddell: wlassitant does not really compare (and not in systray)
09:13 Riddell ok cool
09:13 Tonio_ there is another app
09:13 Riddell so a voluteer please to add that main inclusion report to the main
inclusion queue
09:13 Lure knetdockapp is similar (at least last version) and knetworkmanager
(for future)
09:13 Tonio_ called knetdockapp
09:13 Tonio_ Lure: yeah ;)
09:13 Riddell then I'll put it on the CD and we can see if we get any
complaints/complements
09:13 Riddell Hobbsee: care to volunteer since you brought the item up? :)
09:13 Tonio_ I'm in contact with upstream, and it is activelly developped
09:13 raphink how many DF do we still have to go with the new schedule Riddell?
09:13 Tonio_ but not as nice as knemo actually
09:13 Lure knetdockapp has almost 0% CPU usage, but universe version is not
latest and as nice as knemo
09:14 allee Isn't knemo disabled by default?
09:14 Tonio_ allee: it is
09:14 Riddell raphink: DF?
09:14 raphink dapper flight sorry Riddell
09:14 Hobbsee hehe preferably not. i wouldnt know what to put in a main inclusion
report
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09:14 Lure allee: knemo is configured but not started by default
09:14 allee So do you turn it on to get feedback?
09:14 Riddell raphink: no idea, flights just come every two weeks if it's sane to
do so
09:14 allee s/you/we/
09:14 Riddell Hobbsee: in the list of things to be reviewed
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09:15 allee Riddell: to get feedback maybe a good idea for at leat one flight
09:15 Tm_T jpatrick: welcome
09:15 Riddell allee: yes, agreed
09:15 jpatrick Tm_T: hi
09:15 Riddell ok, lets move on
09:15 Riddell jpatrick had an item and Tonio_ is here now
09:15 Lure as I said, I do not feel CPU load is showstopper, but just concern as
linux PM is already not as battery efficient as the ugly OS
09:15 Tonio_ Riddell: as we discuss about network tools, could we take the
oportunity to talk a bit about wlassistant ?
09:16 raphink hi jpatrick
09:16 Hobbsee Tonio_: please. i'm always on the search for good ones :P
09:16 jjesse Tonio_: i used wlassastiant last night but couldn't get it to give me
a dhcp address
09:16 jjesse had to do a sudo dhclient eth1
09:16 jpatrick bonsoir raphink
09:16 Tonio_ I didn't put it on the agenda, cause I finished the package last
night, and I'm not available during the day now.....
09:16 toma Lure: those who have a problem with battery life, can turn it off if
they get hit by it
09:17 Lure toma: exactly, this is why I am fine to turn it on by default
09:17 toma k
09:17 Riddell Tonio_: if it works better than kwifimanager we should try and get it
in
09:17 Tonio_ Riddell: testers needed for this ;)
09:17 jjesse it worked a lot better then kwifimanager
09:17 Lure Riddell: it is better, fot sure
09:17 Riddell Tonio_: where can we get it?
09:17 Lure s/fot/for/
09:17 Tonio_ Riddell: revu
09:17 Hobbsee Tonio_: i'll test when i next take my laptop to uni. because of the
lack of wpa support, i cant test it at home
09:17 jjesse i couldn't get it to give me an ip address via dhcp, had to manually
due it
09:17 robotgeek it's unanimously hated, kwifimanager
09:17 Tonio_ still few polishing needed, but should be working
09:17 Riddell ok, everyone test wlanassistent!
09:18 Riddell and watch out for dhcp problems
09:18 Hobbsee robotgeek: +1. it lies!
09:18 Tm_T Riddell: if you buy wlan system to me ;)
09:18 robotgeek Riddell: i have been using it since yesterday on powerpc, broadcom
airport extreme, it works decently well
09:18 Tonio_ Riddell: robogeek didn't have that problem yesterday, that's why more
test is needed
09:19 Tonio_ robotgeek: hehe, you're faster than me
09:19 robotgeek heh
09:19 Riddell can we move on?
09:19 kwwii robotgeek: help me get my broadcom working and I'll test it :-)
09:19 Tonio_ Riddell: please ;)
09:19 robotgeek kwwii: sure, after meeting maybe
09:19 Riddell jpatrick: go
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09:20 jpatrick I thought we agreed on keeping the tabs on the button
09:20 Tm_T jpatrick: I thought too
09:20 Av|XeN is it possible that kubuntu can use multiple audio sources at the
same time on onboard sound (i've tried a few guides)
09:20 robotgeek Av|XeN: wrong place to ask, please ask in #kubuntu
09:20 Riddell Av|XeN: that's a support question
09:20 Av|XeN ok sorry
09:21 Riddell jpatrick: I think they are all on the bottom now
09:21 Hobbsee jpatrick: i thought we did too, which was why the konsole tabs are
now on the bottom too
09:21 Tonio_ Riddell: confirmed, I changed all of them, except konqueror, of
course
09:21 Riddell yes, so sorted?
09:21 jpatrick yep
09:22 allee yeap
09:22 Lure yes - new layout makes sense
09:22 Riddell Hobbsee: up again
09:22 Hobbsee ah crud.
09:22 Riddell :)
Are we going to get some kde pictures for flight 5? Surely we dont
only have improvements only to gnome. Mornfall should have some
09:22 Hobbsee pictures of the new Adept and the Update Notifier which should be
somewhere in the documentation. What other areas of kde have been
changed between breezy and dapper, that are worth putting into the
summary page?
09:23 Hobbsee we're starting to get questions on "well, what does the upgrade do
for me? what's new in kde? i can see all this stuff in gnome"
09:23 Riddell Hobbsee: I'd love someone to work on the flight info pages for
kubuntu
09:23 Riddell it just needs someone to do it
09:23 robotgeek that page was usually done by doc team, i think
09:23 jjesse Riddell: i would like to take that role, but i'm a little busy rright
now
09:23 Hobbsee do we have a main list on what's been changed or something?
09:23 Riddell screenshots don't take long but finding what to screenshot and the
text and all does take time
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09:23 robotgeek for ubuntu, atleast
=== Snake__ is Ken Minardo
09:24 bkjones I could volunteer some small amounts of time to help with the docs
there, riddell
09:24 Riddell bkjones: excellent
09:24 Riddell next flight may well be end of next week
09:24 jjesse flight6?
09:24 raphink ok
09:24 Hobbsee i'm kinda busy for the next week or so - darn uni assignments all
being due then, so i'm hesitant to commit to much
09:24 jjesse Riddell: how owould you see the pages looking like,
DapperFlight6/Kubuntu
09:24 jjesse ???
09:24 Riddell bkjones: fancy talking with jjesse and whoever does the ubuntu flight
notes to make sure kubuntu is well covered?
09:25 raphink jjesse: or the opposite?
09:25 bkjones riddell: that's my first volunteer thing for kubuntu. I'll need
either an account on some wiki or an email addy to mail docs to.
09:25 jjesse KubuntuDapperFlight6?
09:25 robotgeek Matt Galvin
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09:25 Tm_T jjesse: I like to help a bit with it if I can
09:25 bkjones bkjones@gmail.com :-
09:25 bkjones :-)
09:25 Riddell bkjones: anyone can get a wiki account, just sign up on launchpad.net
09:25 jjesse bkjones you could work with me (jjesse@iserv.net)
09:25 bkjones ok
09:25 Riddell bkjones: jjesse's release notes already contain a lot of what's new
09:26 raphink bkjones: you only need to sign up on launchpad.net and log with this
account on the wiki
09:26 robotgeek bkjones: possibly join us in #ubuntu-doc too
09:26 bkjones robotgeek: done.
09:26 Riddell bkjones: do join us in #kubuntu-devel and I'll poke when flight is
going to happen
09:26 Lure bkjones, jjesse: thanks for this - I think getting message through is
as important as fixing bugs
09:26 jjesse bkjones: we canchat on this
maybe the general docs are better for me. I've used breezy and now
09:26 bkjones I'm on dapper, but I'm not sure I could really list changes between
the two.
09:26 raphink Lure: indeed
09:27 jjesse Lure: its something that i've been meaing to do, but need to finish
my booik chapter first
09:27 jjesse if you guys would stop changing things :)
09:27 Lure ;-)
09:27 raphink jjesse: lol
09:27 Riddell bkjones: ask us on #kubuntu-devel, we'll tell you what's new and good
09:27 Tonio_ jjesse: hehe
09:27 Hobbsee jjesse: you dont have books that change automatically? weird
09:27 Snake__ Lol
09:27 jjesse grin :)
09:27 bkjones hey, by any chance, are there plans to add widescreen wallpapers?
09:27 raphink Hobbsee: hardcoding doc is bad :p
=== bkjones has dual mons.
09:28 Riddell bkjones: that's other business, wait to the end
09:28 Riddell Lure: you're up
09:28 Lure bkjones: that is very wide... ;-)
09:28 bkjones heh.
09:28 bkjones k
09:28 bkjones :)
09:28 Lure Should we change default layout of KDE menu from "Name (Description)"
to "Description (Name)"
09:28 Hobbsee -25
09:28 Snake__ How come??
09:28 jjesse too late to change that the doc is done :)
09:29 allee +25
09:29 Riddell Lure: I think we go with the KDE default on this
09:29 Lure this was discussed on forums and got big support
09:29 Tonio_ Lure: I personnaly don't like "description (name)"
09:29 Riddell and I know KDE has switche back and forth, so I don't want to do the
same
09:29 Snake__ -25 as well..
09:29 robotgeek jjesse: i have a script , talk to me :)
09:29 kwwii bkjones: we could make a 16:9 or 16:10 version of the wallpaper if
there is space or it is another question
09:29 raphink I don't like this either
09:29 Riddell Lure: and neither way solves the problem
09:29 allee GenricName (name) passed my family test
personally, i say use name (description), because a) it seems more
09:29 Hobbsee logical, and b) if you launch an app from the run command, or from
katapult, you need to know it's name.
09:29 Snake__ Lure: Just out of curiosity, how come?
09:29 jjesse i don't think this needs to be changed
09:29 raphink allt he more that Name is requried in desktop files, whereas
GenericName is not
09:29 bkjones kwwii: that'd be good.
09:30 Tm_T Hobbsee: agreed
09:30 raphink Hobbsee: yes
=== Snake__ would like to hear his side of why.
09:30 bkjones ack. Meeting for me. Bbiab.
some apps we want to have branded so you know the name, others we
09:30 Riddell don't, I'd like a field added to the .desktop files to indicate the
correct way to show them
09:30 allee Newbies don't care about app name, that search for GenericName
09:30 Riddell Lure: do you have any rationale?
09:30 Lure Snake__: it is due to most KDE apps starting with k, requiring more
to read. See the link on forums for explanaation
09:30 allee Hirvinen: and appname is in () to alt-f2
09:31 Tonio_ Lure: there are plenty of applications that use a crappy GenericName
like "a kde application"
=== Snake__ nods with Tonio_
09:31 Tonio_ I always change that in my package, but that can cause an issue too
09:31 allee Tonio_: This needs to be fixed independently of this topic ;)
09:31 Lure Tonio_: I have switched and not that many have bad description - but
some should change
09:31 Hirvinen allee: Are you addressing me or are you just using an inferior IRC
client?
09:31 raphink allee: well this is a fact that our apps are not ready for this
09:32 allee Hirvinen: oops
09:32 Tm_T Hirvinen: prolly bad tabfill
09:32 Tonio_ allee: well, it is of any interest talking about the way to display
the information
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09:32 Tonio_ the Name is always good, not the genericname
09:32 jjesse can i ask why we would deviate from what is default from KDE?
09:32 Tonio_ so the first given information as to be the valid one to me
09:32 Hobbsee what is the default kde? name (description) ?
09:32 allee jjesse: better for newbies (in my experience)
09:32 Lure allee: +1
09:33 raphink Mandriva has an easy switcher in the kmenueditor iirc
09:33 Riddell hmm, my menu is description (name)
09:33 raphink to switch between "name (description) and description (name)"
09:33 Snake__ :-/
09:33 Tm_T raphink: it's in kicker options
09:33 raphink actually
09:33 Tonio_ Riddell: my one is default, and is "Name (Description)"
09:33 jjesse i have amarok (Audio Player)
09:33 raphink they allow to switch to another kmenu presenttion too
09:33 Riddell Tonio_: I'm sure I haven't changed it, curious
09:33 Snake__ Ive never had a problem with Name (Descip)
09:33 robotgeek mine is in Name (Deskcription) format
09:33 Tm_T raphink: that what I need
09:33 Lure Riddell: ;-)
09:33 nlindblad Name (Description) here too
09:33 Snake__ People chatch on to whats going on
09:33 Lure Riddell: and you like it? ;-)
09:33 Snake__ catch**
09:33 Riddell neither is great, and I don't see any one option being significantly
better than the other
09:34 robotgeek Riddell: i had that problem as i moved my .kde from breezy
09:34 jjesse could this be a discussion for dapper+1?
and when you have more than one media player, it shows up as
09:34 Hobbsee (mediaplayer) app 1, mediaplayer, app2, mediaplayer, app 3, which
looks weird adn unhelpful
09:34 Tm_T I have just "name"
09:34 jpatrick Tm_T: +1
09:34 robotgeek one big -ve is that we have to change all kubuntu docs
09:34 Snake__ +1 Hobbsee
09:34 nlindblad jjesse: yeah, not that big of an issue
09:34 Tm_T descriptions use too much space ;)
09:34 raphink jjesse: +1
It seems that a lot of people at least on freenode are using clients
09:34 Hirvinen that try to complete the first word of a line into a nick. Which is a
bit problematic when people begin with a hi.
09:34 Riddell jjesse: yes, I'd like to do it better for dapper + 1, where we can
choose which to show in the .desktop file
09:34 Hobbsee Riddell: breezy seemed to prefer Description (Name)
When I first wanted to switch to genericname (name) is as already
09:34 allee selected by not used. deselecting and selection again made it work
(but that was long time ago)
09:34 Riddell Hobbsee: that could well be that KDE changed it then
09:35 Tonio_ Riddell: if we can be sure desc is not a "a good kde application" for
ALL universe apps, then I'll approve
09:35 Lure Hobbsee: this is actually better, as they are auto-grouped
09:35 Tonio_ but that generic genericname is very often used
09:35 Lure robotgeek: good point about docs...
09:35 allee Tm_T: there no difference between space of 'description (name)' or
'name (description)'
09:35 Riddell a lot of gnome apps don't have a GenericName too
09:35 Tm_T allee: I use only 'name'
09:35 allee Tm_T: purist
09:35 Tm_T allee: but no, it's not good default
09:35 Snake__ Tm_T: just name would be confusing tho..
09:35 Tonio_ Riddell: yes, gnome apps generally use a description as "name"
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09:36 Riddell Tonio_: which just shows that the spec if broken, if they feel they
can't stick to it
=== Snake__ could see the users going to launch amarok and typing "Media-Player" in run...
09:36 nlindblad yeah
09:36 Riddell does anyone feel strongly about this issue, or can we agree to stick
with KDE default until dapper+1?
09:36 nlindblad +1
I think the description is a parenthetical issue, where the name is
09:36 trappist not. I like to see what app it is, then maybe the
description. especially since so many apps have identical
descriptions (see your multimedia menu)
09:36 Snake__ +1 Riddell
09:36 Tonio_ Riddell: exactly
09:36 jjesse +1 riddell
09:36 allee Kmenu: uses currently name (genericname) and on comment is shown in
tooltips
09:37 Hobbsee +1 Riddell
09:37 Lure Riddell: if no generic name, than name is used (se open office)
09:37 jpatrick +1
09:37 Tm_T +1 Riddell
09:37 Lure s/se/see/
09:37 raphink Riddell: +1
09:37 robotgeek so we arent changing what is currently in my menu? if so, +1
09:37 Riddell anyone know who V7 is?
09:37 Snake__ +1
09:37 raphink let's report to dapper+1
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09:37 Lure Riddell: I do not feel strongly, just that newbees would be better
with proposed change
09:37 Hobbsee Riddell: nope, but i'd say that's a very useful key map to do
09:38 Riddell I'm happy for win key to map to k-menu, I just don't know how
09:38 Hobbsee because the windows key is fairly useless at the moment
=== robotgeek uses mod4 key for a lot of things
09:38 Riddell I remember looking at it years ago and not being able to work it out
09:38 Tonio_ Riddell: I know how ;)
09:38 nlindblad Riddell: that's something we want, yeah
=== raphink has no win key on his powerbook
09:38 Riddell so first one to come up with the patch to k-d-s gets their name in
the changelog
=== Tm_T use winkey to handle desktops
09:38 toma I would like that mapped as well, but i understood it was not
possible anymore in KDE
09:38 kwwii screw the win key
09:38 Riddell so long as it doesn't conflict with other uses of the win key
09:38 Tonio_ Riddell: I will have a look on that soon
09:39 Hobbsee Riddell: what, no pony? :P
09:39 Riddell I don't even have a win key on my thinkpad
09:39 robotgeek for mac users, the windows key becomes the command key
09:39 raphink the win key is used for amarok
09:39 Tonio_ guys do you appreciate ksnapshot on the print key ?
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09:39 raphink by default
09:39 Tm_T raphink: yup
09:39 raphink win + V
09:39 kwwii i would love it if I had one
09:39 Riddell raphink: I know, means I can't use any shortcuts for amarok by
default
09:39 toma Tonio_: yes
09:39 raphink to stop playing in amarok
09:39 nlindblad Tonio_: yes
09:39 kmon Tonio_: +1
09:39 Lure Tonio_: +1
09:39 nlindblad Tonio_: +1
09:39 Tonio_ it is already added for info ;) just wanted a feedback
09:39 Tm_T Tonio_: +99
09:39 Hobbsee Tonio_: +1
09:40 allee Tonio_: +1 for ksnapshot
09:40 robotgeek Tonio_: i don't use it, but +1
09:40 raphink Tonio_: rock
09:40 Tonio_ just press "print"
09:40 Riddell Lure: next item is yours
09:40 Snake__ Tonio_: Print screen would be great
09:40 Lure I am just wondering if there is more candidates that could test
Kpowersave
09:41 Lure I would personally like to get latest powersave/kpoersave in Universe
for dapper
09:41 Tonio_ Lure: ++
09:41 nlindblad Lure: what is it? Brief introduction
09:41 raphink Lure: I still need to be able to build the latest version ;)
09:41 Lure replacement for klaptop
09:41 nlindblad advantages?
09:41 Tonio_ way better replacement :)
09:41 robotgeek Lure: will this work on powerpc machines as well?
09:41 Lure https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KubuntuPowersave
09:41 raphink Lure: when I get an option to build it without libsysfs.la
09:41 Hobbsee https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KubuntuPowersave for more info
09:41 Tonio_ nlindblad: well, by far better in any point of view ;)
09:41 Lure robotgeek: it should, but no packages yet
09:41 nlindblad IMO, klaptop is old and poorly translated
09:41 Hobbsee Lure: i'll certainly test it out, when i get the chance
09:41 Tonio_ it is a top3 app on kde-apps
09:41 robotgeek Lure: i can build from source package myself
09:42 nlindblad not very userfriendly
09:42 Lure robotgeek: and we need to fix building issue with latest libsysfs
people testing doesn't solve the main issue which is that I've been
09:42 Riddell too busy to learn how they both work and what the best way to do
power management is in kubuntu
09:42 Hobbsee and klaptop seem to crash every time i hit suspend, which is kind of
inconvenient.
09:42 Hobbsee Riddell: true
09:42 allee raphink: that's easy;) rebuild all sources that have libsysfs.la in
their .la files. Grep is your friend ;)
09:42 raphink allee: libsysfs.la was voluntarily removed from the libsysfs-dev
package by pitti
Riddell: my opinion : gnome is using the best gtk apps available, and
09:43 Tonio_ it is a bit sad not using one of the best kde application "because we
have to stick with gnome choices"
09:43 Riddell if those packages are in main, raphink has main upload rights now so
he can fix them all :)
09:43 Lure raphink: exactly - we need to ask pitti for reason
09:43 Tonio_ Riddell: although I can understand this of course ;) but if we want
the best kde desktop implementation, we have to use the best apps
09:43 allee raphink: I know. Rebuild that packages that have libsysfs.la in their
.la files and libsysfs.la reference goes away
09:44 Lure Riddell: I am shooting for Universe only - this will ensure testers.
09:44 raphink Lure: yes I agree. I tried to ping him. It seems to be fixing a
Debian bug. didn't check further though
09:44 Lure Riddell: if feedback is good, then decision for main would be easier
09:44 raphink allee: hmmm
09:44 Riddell so plan is for Lure to get new version into universe, and me to read
up on these power tools
09:45 allee raphink: \sh once did this when libXft.la went away
09:45 raphink same here
=== nlindblad has a stupid idea
09:45 Lure I am counting on MOTU for getting packages in... ;-)
09:45 raphink allee: mhm
09:45 Tm_T nlindblad: what is it?
09:45 nlindblad why not have a repository for things we WANT tested
09:45 Riddell nlindblad: launchpad will provide peronal repositories at some point
09:45 raphink Lure: sure, ping Riddell, Tonio_, jpatrick or me for uploads
09:45 nlindblad Riddell: nice
09:45 Lure Riddell: I will also try to get some feedback from ubuntu-laptop
people (Matthew) to get buy in
09:46 raphink (I think I'm forgetting some people..
09:46 jpatrick Lure hi
09:46 Riddell Lure: yes, please do
09:46 Riddell is Nirvana here?
09:46 Tm_T Riddell: is he ever here?
09:46 Lure jpatrick: hi
09:46 Snake__ Lol
09:46 robotgeek i remember Nirvana posting last meeting too, i think
09:46 jpatrick hehe
09:46 Riddell well if he reads the logs, he can go and ask amu about klickibunti
09:46 Riddell kmon: next
09:46 raphink yes he posts but doesn't show at the meeting
09:47 Hobbsee what is klickibunti? same as klik?
09:47 kmon AFAIK gnome has a usplash theme for the halting process... When will
this enter kubuntu?
09:47 Snake__ Hobbsee: I dont think so..
09:47 Riddell kmon: I've actually been working on this all day and not got very far
:(
09:47 Hobbsee no, can that, i dont want to know. there are better things to
discuss.
09:47 Tonio_ Riddell: :(
09:47 Riddell kdm is horribly complex and I got it working for shutdown from kdm,
but not shutdown from within KDE
09:47 kmon I though it was changing the artwork only... but I don't know
anything about it, really
09:47 kwwii I made the (I think) current usplash, I can make the shutdown pic too
09:48 Riddell this is a technical problem, and one the usplash authors never
bothered to tell me about
09:48 Hobbsee kwwii: the very blue one? it's horrendous!
09:48 Riddell we need kdm to run usplash_down at the right time
09:48 kwwii hehe
09:48 robotgeek Hobbsee: http://www.klickibunti.org/buntibunti.php
09:48 Snake__ LOL
09:48 kwwii Hobbsee: did you see the lighter version? I will probably make that
even lighter and you will love it :-9
09:48 Hobbsee ARGH! My eyes! my eyes!
09:48 Riddell I'll post my patch on the bug report, but I don't want to spend ages
on kdm
09:48 Riddell so... artwork
09:49 nlindblad how is suspend2 doing?=
09:49 raphink robotgeek: ouch
09:49 robotgeek lol
09:49 Tm_T robotgeek: murderer
09:49 kmon Riddell: ok, thanxs for the info
09:49 Tonio_ kwwii: is it added to k-d-s ? I didn't saw any change past 4 days
=== Seveas [n=seveas@ubuntu/member/seveas] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
09:49 kwwii I put it up on the wiki, below the first one
09:49 Tonio_ kwwii: url ?
09:50 kwwii it shows how much better it can get by being only a slight bit
lighter, so going even more extreme will work even better
kwwii is working on the artwork for dapper, if anyone has things he
09:50 Riddell should be working on add them to
https://wiki.kubuntu.org/KubuntuDapperArtworkTodo
09:50 kwwii wiki.kubuntu.org/DapperKubuntuDesktop I think
09:50 Tm_T kwwii: I will talk to you about this later ;)
09:50 raphink :)
09:51 kwwii I realize now, after seeing the artwork that you like what you want
09:51 nlindblad is Firefox in kubuntu-desktop yet?
09:51 robotgeek Riddell: offtopic, but do you know when/if the "certificate error"
will go away on wiki.kubuntu.org
09:51 apokryphos yuck
09:51 Tm_T nlindblad: stop cursing
09:51 jpatrick nlindblad: never ;)
09:51 nlindblad Tm_T: sorry
09:51 Tm_T ;)
09:51 Riddell nlindblad: no, we use konqueror
09:51 kwwii and I will say now that I do not want to go soooo non-saturated but
lets meet half way and see what comes out
09:51 nlindblad I know
09:51 kwwii the pic posted on the meeting page is probably not 16bit safe btw
09:51 Hobbsee kwwii: +1
09:51 Riddell robotgeek: not remembering it seems to be a KDE bug, maybe it's fixed
in KDE 3.5.2
09:52 Lure kwwii: +1
09:52 robotgeek Riddell: heh, definetly not a kde bug.
09:52 Tonio_ kwwii: ++ ;)
09:52 Riddell kwwii: will we be able to get a stupidly large wallpaper for 1900
screens or is that too much work?
09:53 nlindblad why not SVG?
09:53 apokryphos why not svgs? :)
09:53 Lure Riddell: my 1920x1200 is only 15.4"
09:53 Lure ;-)
09:53 Snake__ Holy crap Lure !
09:53 raphink svg rock :)
09:53 Riddell nlindblad: it's rendered from a 3D modelling tool
09:53 nlindblad Riddell: okey, sorry
09:53 Tonio_ svg with that quality image and so many effects would be REALLY heavy
09:53 raphink ah
09:53 allee current bg is too nervous imho. Hobbsee suggestion is much more
releaxed.
09:53 sladen Tonio_: but it's only rendered once, and cached after that
09:53 bkjones back
09:54 nlindblad having the default wallpaper as SVG would give people a nice
impression
09:54 Hobbsee there's a wallpaper for that too, apart from the kdm theme.
09:54 Snake__ nlindblad: and also kill my P3
09:54 Tonio_ sladen: hum.......
09:54 nlindblad Snake__: sorry, I must have too new hardware here ;)
09:54 Tonio_ kwwii: any opinion on svg wallpaper ? I really doubt it but well....
09:54 Riddell sladen: SVG wallpapes are not cached
09:54 Riddell Tonio_: it's not an option
09:54 Lure sladen: so it is stored in .png in cache dir?
09:55 Riddell Lure: don't listen to sladen, he didn't write the code (I did)
09:55 raphink breezy had a svg wallpaper iirc
09:55 Snake__ Where can I find this SVG thing at?
09:55 Snake__ the wallpaper..
09:55 Seveas Riddell, then add the caching code ;)
09:55 Riddell there is no SVG wallpaper!
09:55 kwwii hrm
09:55 Riddell any other artwork comments?
=== Snake__ hides
09:55 Tonio_ raphink: breezy had svg source of png wallpaper ;)
09:55 bkjones just my "dual screen wallpaper" request, riddell
09:55 Tonio_ which is different :)
09:55 bkjones :)
09:55 kwwii well, I can definitely post the xcf file for the wallpaper if that
helps
09:56 Riddell bkjones: what's the requirements again?
09:56 raphink well I made my comments on the new window style killing my powerbook
already ;)
09:56 bkjones there's a good bit of it, just doesn't come with the distro
09:56 Hobbsee Riddell: to change the kdm, and maybe the default screensaver to
http://www.kde-look.org/content/show.php?content=30314 ?
09:56 Riddell we have a default screensaver?
09:56 Hobbsee there seem to have been many complaints in the past few days about
the bright blue
09:56 Hobbsee er, desktop
09:56 kwwii dude, I turned up the bling on the crystal style and my powerbook is
running fine
09:56 Hobbsee but why *dont* we have a default screensaver?
09:56 robotgeek Hobbsee: _1
09:56 Snake__ KDE has screensavers?
09:56 Snake__ j/p
09:56 robotgeek +1
09:56 kwwii although, I do have 1.5GB of RAM
09:56 raphink Riddell: good idea
09:56 Riddell because screensavers are annoying and get in the way
09:56 bkjones requirements would be that the wallpaper should be twice as wide as
it is high. I'm not a graphics geek. Sorry.
09:56 bkjones :(
09:57 Riddell (in my humble opinion :)
09:57 Lure raphink: I am also seing delay on rendering - particularly with "ati"
driver on low CPU freq
=== jpatrick likes the clock one
09:57 Riddell bkjones: you have the same wallpaper on both screens?
09:57 Tm_T jpatrick: I like too
09:57 Tonio_ Riddell: ++ I never used screensaver
09:57 bkjones I think what I have now is 2560x1024
09:57 kwwii a really simple screensaver with a kubuntu logo on black might be
nice
09:57 Riddell bkjones: I think that's very hard to satisfy with a default wallpaper
09:57 raphink Lure: I'm seeing it just without nothing special launched
09:57 bkjones riddell: wallpaper crosses screens.
09:57 bkjones riddell: not default, just make it available
09:58 bkjones default wallpaper looks goofy on dual mons.
09:58 kwwii bkjones: you mean stretching the pic to cross screens?
09:58 bkjones gets all stretched out. There's not a good way to deal with them on
duals.
09:58 kwwii or mirroring it, etc.
09:58 bkjones yeah.
09:58 Riddell bkjones: ask kwwii for the xcf's and make one for us
09:58 Tonio_ bkjones: we can't provide 100 wallpapers to fit with exceptionnal
configurations like yours
09:58 bkjones exceptional? Half my dept. has the same setup!
09:58 Tonio_ how many different resolutions do exist ? dozens I assume :)
09:58 nlindblad off-topic: is the installation program capable of resizing
NTFS-partitions?
09:58 Riddell bkjones: that's quite an exceptional departement :)
09:59 bkjones well, thanks ;-)
09:59 robotgeek maybe art.kubuntu.org is required
09:59 kwwii I have a long list of resolutions available on modern hardware if
anyone wants it
09:59 Riddell nlindblad: it uses libparted, see their website
09:59 trappist we could have kde-wallpapers-$(resolution) packages
09:59 kwwii it is really long
09:59 nlindblad Riddell: okey
09:59 toma i would welcome a background which is usable for dual monitor setup
as well
yeah, you can find these wallpapers on kde-look and any other site
09:59 bkjones that has wallpaper, but it'd be awesome if they were "just
there(tm)".
09:59 bkjones Just a thought. I'm done :)
09:59 kwwii to be honest making so many resolutions is not soo hard, it is more
the point of making about 3 different aspect ratios
09:59 Tm_T kwwii: if I print it as reasonable font, would it be over 100 pages?
09:59 Riddell toma: don't most dual monitor setups use 1 image on each screen?
10:00 kwwii 4:3 16:9 and 16:10
10:00 kwwii Tm_T: well, more like 20 lines or so
10:00 bkjones look at the available ones online. I believe they only make like one
or two widescreen sizes for each one.
10:00 toma Riddell: hmm, i was thinking about it, but i'm not sure, too bad im
not at my office now.
10:00 Riddell kwwii: but even if we have that I don't think we have a way to get it
to use the right one by default
10:00 Tm_T kwwii: bah, boring, I thought I have some night reading
10:00 toma Riddell: you might be right.
10:00 kwwii yeah, so forget it
10:00 Riddell toma: I've no idea, never used one
10:01 bkjones I love the "soft green" wallpaper, btw, which I think just appeared
after an update last night at home.
10:01 kwwii we could put optional aspect ratios in some package somwhere though
10:01 kwwii it is almost crazy to talk about doing that for dual monitor setups
10:01 toma bkjones: is that with xinerama?
i currently use this:
10:01 kmon http://www.kde-look.org/content/show.php?content=31556 Tm_T liked it
;)
10:01 bkjones just throw 'em in a directory under the default.
10:01 kwwii just mirror the pick
10:01 bkjones toma: twinview :-)
10:02 bkjones so when I browse for wallpaper I can find them, but they're out of
the way of most users.
10:02 toma bkjones: ah, i think xinerama uses the same on both minotors.
10:02 Tonio_ kwwii: I would, personnaly, appreciate that kubuntu offers something
other that "only blue"
10:02 Tm_T kmon: and I already modified it
10:02 toma i'm pretty sure...
10:02 bkjones no, xinerama will let you do the same thing I'm doing.
10:02 Tonio_ kwwii: just a suggestion, of course ;)
10:02 Riddell well, that's an hour up, I have to go in a sec, any other business?
10:02 kwwii Tonio_: making different color versions will be very easy
10:02 Tonio_ Riddell: just a point about emergency bugs :)
10:02 kwwii Tonio_: in the end the bubbles are all on one level with alpha and
the bg color is on another
10:03 Tonio_ is that possible ?
=== trappist [i=trappist@tra.ppi.st] has left #ubuntu-meeting []
10:03 Hobbsee Riddell: just more stuff about everything now being far too bright
blue
10:03 Lure Riddell: I heard rumors that NM 0.6 was discussed on developers
meeting. true?
10:03 kwwii so theoretically we could just use the grey mapped pic and colorize
it in kde
10:03 Riddell Tonio_: go
10:03 Tonio_ we still have no idea of what to do with kdeprint, and my patch on
kicker systelapplet creates an issue
10:03 Riddell Tonio_: patch on kicker?
10:03 Tonio_ Riddell: the systemapplet, using system:/
10:04 Riddell Tonio_: in the worst case for kdeprint well include a CUPS 1.1
package
10:04 Tonio_ Riddell: works nice, but causes the "system" button in konq sidebar
to fail loadingh
10:04 Riddell Tonio_: what's that issue again?
10:04 Tonio_ I couldn't find the reason, so coder needed
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10:04 kwwii if we did it with a grey scale pic, we could even include three or
four kde themes with different colors for everything
10:05 Tonio_ Riddell: but it works nice for the systemapplet itseft
10:05 Riddell Tonio_: I suggest discussing with ervin on #kde-devel
10:05 raphink Riddell: I'd think cups should not get these messages on the error
output
10:05 toma maybe explaining the whole issue?
10:05 Tonio_ Riddell: I will thanks :)
10:05 Tonio_ raphink: +1
10:05 Hobbsee kwwii: that'd be cool
10:05 Tonio_ this is what the gnome-cups-manager does
10:05 Tonio_ the error message appears, but only in the standard output
10:06 Riddell Lure: yes, keybuk did mention n-m 0.6, if that goes in we should
package knetworkmanager toot sweet and get it working
10:06 raphink no the gnome-cups-manager just ignores the message
10:06 toma Tonio_: what are you trying to do?
10:06 Tonio_ toma : concerning systemapplet ?
10:06 raphink the best option would be to shut the message up in cups
10:06 Riddell Hobbsee: talk to kwwii :)
10:06 Lure Riddell: I do not this we should go with old cups due to error
message
10:06 toma yes
10:06 toma Tonio_: yes
10:06 Hobbsee will do
10:06 Lure Riddell: great news
10:06 Tonio_ toma: the dault usage of "syste:/home causes many issues, so I
patched it to use $HOME instead
10:06 Tm_T ok, thanks for your time, I go to sleep, good night ->
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10:07 Tonio_ toma: works nice, but now the system componant of konqsidebar fails
loading
10:07 Tonio_ and I don't figure why
10:07 Riddell anyone want to write minutes from this meeting?
10:07 Tonio_ kwwii: in fact I was talking about a "bicolor" theme
10:07 Tonio_ instead of several "monocolor" ones ;)
10:07 toma Tonio_: would it be better to fix the apps?
10:08 Tonio_ like you did with suse for example ;) nice mix of blue and green
10:08 Tonio_ toma: fix the apps ?
10:08 Tonio_ toma: can you imagin how many fixes to provide ?
10:08 Tonio_ ;)
10:08 raphink +1 for green
10:08 toma Tonio_: what kind of troubles are there with apps?
10:08 raphink well contrary of suse I would say
10:08 raphink blue being main color and green completing the picture
10:09 Tonio_ toma: about all applications are copying files in tmp before
execution
10:09 Tonio_ like kate, kaffeine etc........
10:09 kwwii Tonio: bicolor, for accesability you mean
10:09 Tonio_ toma: that's a PAIN when using files more than 60 megs
10:09 kwwii I am done working on green
10:09 kwwii :-)
10:09 raphink lol
10:09 toma Tonio_: yes, but i think that that is the problem to be solved, not
changing system:/home's behaviour
10:10 kwwii ahhhh, now I get it
10:10 Tonio_ kwwii: just using 2 colors because it is a bit nicer that basing
everything on one only in my view :)
10:10 allee Tonio_: afaiu this is not done by apps by what ever does %f
interpretation in .desktop files
10:10 Tonio_ toma: I don't feel the need of that system:/home feature
10:10 Lure toma: how - as too many aps consider system:/ as remote
10:10 kwwii Tonio_: I understand now
10:10 Tonio_ except making the address bar nice, what does it brings ? only
problems
10:11 allee Exec=whatever %f # everything other than file:// url are copied
and then passed to app
10:11 raphink kwwii: I think having a bit of green woiuld be nice
10:11 Tonio_ allee: so patching .desktop files could do the job ????????
10:11 toma Lure: a call to mostlocal() from kio would solve that, but that is
only for kde apps
Tonio_: it is really hard to work out a theme like that which is
10:11 kwwii changeable in any way. Once it looks good you normally cannot change
anything without messing it up
10:11 toma that would convert system:/home/bla to /home/toma/bla
10:11 kwwii raphink: yeah, I was just kidding about the green
10:11 allee Tonio_: no :( %u will pass all kinds of URLs
10:12 Riddell toma: so that's what kaffeine needs to do
10:12 raphink kwwii: hehe ;)
10:12 toma Riddell: exactly
10:12 Riddell but wouldn't solve the problem for openoffice
10:12 Tonio_ Riddell: and ANY gnome app ;)
10:12 Tonio_ gimp causes problem
10:12 Riddell yes
10:12 Tonio_ firefox too
10:12 kmon One issue I had with using the default system:/ behaviour in the
location was that I could compress files with ark
10:12 allee Tonio_: IMHO system: home: etc should be converted to /path/to/file
and then passed to the app.
10:12 Tonio_ kwwii: yes I can understand that
10:13 kmon s/could/couln't
10:13 allee Tonio_: obviously not all of KDE core can handle system: home:
10:13 Tonio_ allee: yes but well........
10:13 toma ok, is that passsed to the app via the cli or how does the
system:/home comes into OOo?
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10:13 Riddell toma: yes, passed as an argument when it starts
=== Snake__ is still Ken Minardo
10:13 toma the same issue is there for media:/sda1 for usb sticks
10:14 toma so you keep on patching things
10:14 Lure allee: can the conversion be done by the process doing Exec from
.desktop?
10:14 Tonio_ really that change in the systemapplet only brings problems
10:14 allee Lure: yes, that was my understanding
10:14 Tonio_ not one intersting feature at least......
10:14 toma i can provide a executable which converts it, if that helps
10:15 Tonio_ toma: and what about widely used gnome apps, like gimp ?
10:16 kwwii if I make the wallpaper much ligher it would be easy to get away with
using a very light green theme for the default konqi startpage
10:16 toma Tonio_: what do you mean? It can never be called from the cli with a
system:/home parameter
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10:16 toma that will never work
10:16 toma so it has to be converted before
10:16 Tonio_ toma: what about when you're browsing the system with system:/home
10:17 Tonio_ and double click an image to open it with gimp ?
10:17 Tonio_ that crashes........
10:17 Tonio_ that's why the idea has been to make usage of $HOME
10:17 toma right, but the same goes todocuments located at media:/sda1
10:17 Tonio_ witch works in *any* cases
=== allee assumes that gnomes kill us if we use media2path in their desktop files
10:18 toma allee: that would be fun you mean ;-)
10:18 Tonio_ toma: yes that's another issue
10:18 toma Tonio_: i would prefer 'localizing' the parameter, but i dont have a
solution....
10:19 Tonio_ toma: that's the problem
10:19 Tonio_ and my patch doesn't work as nicelly as it should
10:19 allee Tonio_: if we can find that does the URL -> %f conversion, we could
add your code to preprocess to file://
10:20 Tonio_ so waiting for a better solution, correcting my patch for the
system:/home part would be nice ;)
10:20 Lure Tonio_, toma: which process handles %f - this one could do
translation on-the-fly
10:20 Tonio_ allee: indeed yes
10:21 allee toma: isn't this an attractive challange :)
10:21 toma messy ;-)
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10:21 Lure allee: I am a bit suprised this is not a concern in general KDE
community
10:21 Lure or is system:/ Kubuntu specific?
10:22 toma no
10:22 allee Lure: no KDE in general
10:22 Lure then let's kill system: ;-)
10:22 allee Lure: KDE devels are aware of the problem AFAIK, but the korrect
solution needs KDE 4
10:23 toma yes, i fundamentally agree that system:/home is evil.
=== allee nods
10:23 Lure toma: there is also system:/users...
10:23 toma someone goes into a terminal and assumes /home =system:/home
10:24 Lure and home:/
10:24 Lure I kind of think this is against usability goal of Kubuntu
10:25 toma hmm, you can wonder what system:/ adds at all
10:26 Riddell toma: I think it's so that the Up button works as expected
10:26 toma ;-)
10:27 toma what dfunctionality would you loose if we did not compile system-kio?
10:28 Riddell the system applet on kicker for one
10:28 kwwii ouch, you need that
10:29 Riddell so no minute taker?
10:29 kwwii either that or an icon for all of that through hal on the desktop
10:29 kwwii Riddell: my wife was amazed at the quality of your minute taking
abilities
media:, system:, home: whatever is kind of useful in knoqueror and
10:29 allee save*dialogs, but evil as soon as passed via K*Process like classes
to outside kdelibs core
10:29 kwwii my wife seemed to have spent a good deal of time googling for your
name
10:30 sladen kwwii: Riddell is a well practised Quaker at such things :)
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10:30 Riddell kwwii: to make sure I won't be a bad infuence on you?
10:31 kwwii Riddell: I think so...you passed her test
10:31 allee toma: system:, home: and media: collect infos distributed in a tree
to a flat view
10:31 Riddell sladen: not today I'm not, or I'd have them all done by now
10:31 kwwii I didn't come home drinking any more or less than I did before :-)
10:31 Riddell so end of meeting?
10:31 allee e.g, / and /media/whaever (and /var or /usr/local etc)
10:32 allee Riddell: yes :)
10:32 Riddell thanks all, carry on discussions on #kubuntu-develMeetingLogs/Kubuntu_2006-03-16 (last edited 2008-08-06 16:24:58 by localhost)