05:06   jono    right LoCo meeting
05:06   nixternal       they are crazy...your butt goes numb waiting :)
05:06   jono    who is here for the loco meeting?
05:07   looksaus        me...
05:07   elkbuntu        me
05:07   looksaus        :)
05:07   technolalia     and me
05:07   craigaa me
05:07   nixternal       i guess i am now that i am awake
=== JanC is
05:07   Kuyaedz me
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05:07   MagicFab        me
05:07   thoreauputic    bimberi has suggested that applicants and speakers should go in time-zone order - seems a good idea to me
05:07   Ekushey me too
05:07   nixternal       jeesh
05:07   jono    the LoCo army steps forth :)
05:07   nixternal       no doubt
05:07   craigaa looks like a good turnout
05:07   bimberi yes, i've emailed the CC list
05:07   Ekushey :)
=== MagicFab for Ubuntu-QC and Ubuntu-CO
05:07   nixternal       seems teh chicago guys are sleeping off last nights big win on monday night football still
05:08   nixternal       that or they have a life and are at work right now
05:08   Kuyaedz nixternal: there is life outside ubuntu? ;)
05:08   nixternal       so i have heard
05:08   jono    ok see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoTeamMeeting
05:08   jono    thats our agenda
05:08   jono    first is docs
05:08   nixternal       wo0t..
05:08   jono    I will explain my thoughts on this
05:08   nixternal       jono: if you need doc help, im here for ya
05:09   jono    nixternal, :)
05:09   nixternal       since i do edubuntu, kubuntu, ubuntu, ichthux, and kde docs, i can fit ya in
=== sivang is here
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05:09   jono    as many of you have seen, I have revamped the LoCo pages a bit, and produced the FAQ updated the HOWTO and other things
=== jsgotangco is here
05:09   sivang  hi jono
05:09   jono    I think we need to focus the LoCo teams to get lots more written
05:09   jono    hey siccness
05:09   jono    oops
05:09   jono    hey sivang
05:09   jono    :)
05:09   sivang  heh
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05:10   jono    I think we need all aspects of running a team documented where possible
05:10   nixternal       jsgotangco: missed a hell of a bears game last night :)
05:10   jono    so, I was thinking we should have a LoCo Doc Day
05:10   nixternal       good idea
05:10   siccness        hmm?
05:10   jono    pick a day and everyone write a bunch of docs
=== rejden back
05:10   technolalia     what docs do the loco teams need?
05:10   Belutz  I'm back
05:10   looksaus        technolalia, how do I organise a computer fair booth
05:10   jono    technolalia, how to run a team, common questions, dealing with problems, leadership issues, loco structure etc
05:10   jono    the docs need to be best practice
05:11   looksaus        could be a nice subject
05:11   jono    looksaus, exactly
05:11   jono    to best manage this I was gonna propose a call for ideas and we can go from there
05:11   jono    today I just wanted to mainly set a date
05:11   rejden  would be good, if we can follow some template
05:11   nixternal       if anyone is interested http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/styleguide/en/index.html there is the ubuntu documentation styling guide...a little outdated, but has some good information in it, to help keep consistancy
05:11   lophyte ooo, loco meeting started
05:11   lophyte heya all :)
05:11   jono    I was thinking of Fri 27th
05:11   looksaus        lophyte, yes, you just missed pschulz01
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05:12   jono    so is the 27th oct good for you folks?
05:13   MagicFab        jono: great work on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoGettingApproved
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05:13   elkbuntu        not for me personally
05:13   jono    MagicFab, thanks :)
05:13   lophyte works for me, jono
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05:13   JanC    jono: I think a 1 day event will never fit everybody ?
05:13   Kuyaedz no objections here
05:13   Belutz  sorry, what's on 27th oct ?
05:13   MagicFab        jono, may I suggest new Loco teams should be presented here before going to the CC ?
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05:13   jono    MagicFab, we will discuss that in a sec
05:13   jono    Belutz, loco docs day
05:13   elkbuntu        MagicFab, how about you wait
05:13   nixternal       27th == LoCo Doc Day, 28th == Ubuntu Chicago Conference, 29th == CoDLUG Conference....all of which i am documenting....that will be one heck of a weekend ;) <-- winky
05:13   jono    ok how about Tues 31st?
05:13   MagicFab        ok
05:14   nixternal       ooh, the 31st sounds swell
05:14   jono    I think it would be good to get elkbuntu there
05:14   Belutz  jono, ah i see
05:14   lophyte 31st works too.
05:14   jono    wickeeed :)
05:14   jono    ok I will mail loco-contacts about this later
05:14   rejden  sorry, 28 - 31 days off
05:14   elkbuntu        jono, you're picking bad dates for me :(
05:14   jono    elkbuntu, oh really?
05:14   jono    bugger
05:14   jono    elkbuntu, when are goo ddates?
05:15   jono    elkbuntu, when are good dates?
05:15   craigaa no date will work for everyone, we just need to find one that suits most
05:15   lophyte I'm flexible.. any date works for me, really
05:15   elkbuntu        jono, the time is more to the point of my flexibility
=== jenda missed the meeting...
05:15   jono    sure, but I think elkbuntu is such a prominant member that the first event should really have a bunch of prominant members there to be a success
05:15   jenda   are there minutes?
05:15   jono    ok, well lets stick with the 31st for now
05:16   jono    we can arrange more in the future
05:16   jono    ok with everyone?
05:16   elkbuntu        yes
05:16   Kuyaedz weekends work best for me for getting results, no pesky work to distract me.
05:16   lophyte yup
05:16   JanC    jono: why not invite people to write such docs, and then if we have some pick a date to enhance them ?
05:16   jono    jenda, CC meeting?
05:16   Kuyaedz yes
05:16   technolalia     31st is okay for me
05:16   craigaa works for me
05:16   jenda   jono: both :)
05:16   jenda   jono: But I meant the LoCo.
05:16   jono    JanC,  I think we need a data to encourage people to begin writing docs, but I see your point :)
05:17   jono    jenda, we just started this meeting
05:17   jenda   ah ok :)
05:17   jenda   In that case, jono, I will miss it :-D
05:17   jono    another point to discuss, not on the agenda, are regular meetings
05:17   jono    I am thinking we should back this slot every two weeks
05:17   lophyte agreed
05:17   jono    but adjust the time of the meeting to hit the right timezones
05:17   jenda   agreed.
05:17   lophyte every two weeks is good
05:17   elkbuntu        jono, i think it also needs to be before the CC, not after it :)
05:18   lophyte haha
05:18   craigaa lol
05:18   jono    elkbuntu, hehe yeag
05:18   jono    yeah
05:18   jenda   (It'll be hard to find timezones for a group that is by definition evenly spread around the world.
05:18   jenda   )
05:18   elkbuntu        jenda, we decided in first meeting to alternate focus
05:18   jono    jenda, sure, so I was thinking of very early GMT and late GMT
05:18   Kuyaedz two weeks is fine, just be sure to update us on the mailing list on the times
05:18   jono    that should be convenient for *most*
05:18   Belutz  for the timezones, why don't just rotate it?
05:18   jono    Kuyaedz, sure
05:18   craigaa yes
05:19   nixternal       i am awake all hours of the day...i goto bed when the UTC strikes work time, and I wake up when the UTC get off of work :)
05:19   jenda   jono: yes, that seems to have proven best for other meetings too.
05:19   craigaa I would then be able to make one meeting every four weeks
05:19   jono    yeah
05:19   craigaa if we alternate timeframes
05:19   jono    so we can flick between the two times and everyone gets a meeting a month
05:19   rejden  in favor for rotating timezones
05:19   jono    I, get late nights and early mornings :P
05:19   lophyte I think that works best
05:19   jenda   Is there a meeting agenda somewhere? (Sorry for ignorance)
05:19   elkbuntu        that was the plan. then you went on holidays :)
05:19   looksaus        https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoTeamMeeting
05:19   jono    jenda, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoTeamMeeting
05:20   jono    looksaus, beat me to it :P
=== elkbuntu mutters something about lucky. ...
05:20   jono    elkbuntu, eh?
05:20   jenda   thx
05:20   elkbuntu        jono, your frolic in florida
05:20   jono    hehe
05:20   elkbuntu        aaanyway
05:21   jono    ok, so thats cool we have a docs day sorted and regular meetings
05:21   jono    any other comments or views?
05:21   Kuyaedz making better time than the CC meeting ;)
05:21   jenda   hehe
05:21   craigaa :-)
05:21   jono    yes, I am keen to keep everything on track and zip through stuff where needed
05:21   jenda   This time is perfect for me, except there happens to be a conference today I want to attend.
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05:22   jono    ok lets talk edgy CDs
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05:22   jono    let me fill you in with the Canonical situation
05:22   elkbuntu        jenda, you're excused so long as you pass out ubuntu cds :)
05:22   rejden  so what is the proposal?
05:22   jenda   elkbuntu: indeed :) Fortunately, ondrej has just joined for the Czech team too.
05:22   jono    *all* approved teams will get a mix of 500 Edgy CDs
05:23   jono    that is the stock number of CDs planned to be sent out to teams
05:23   rejden  mix, means ku and edubuntu included as well?
05:23   Ekushey jono: ubuntu-bd is *half* approved for now. will we get it too?
05:23   Belutz  jono: variant and platform mix?
05:23   jono    Ubuntu:
05:23   jono    PC    300
05:23   jono    AMD64 50
05:23   jono    Kubuntu:
05:23   jono    PC    75
05:23   jono    AMD64 25
05:23   jono    Edubuntu:
05:23   jono    PC    50
05:24   jono    Ekushey, we can discuss that later, we can arrange something I am sure :)
05:24   looksaus        jono, and how about Dapper shipments?
05:24   JanC    nu PowerPC ?
05:24   elkbuntu        no ppc?
05:24   lophyte Dapper is through shipit.
05:24   jono    dapper is still done via shipit
05:24   MagicFab        jono: won't that make several teams rush to be approved ? i see the backlog :)
05:24   looksaus        because I got a bit confused
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05:24   ondrej  while we are here...  is somebody here who could pay for ubuntu.cz domain name?  seems mail with invoice got lost and ubuntu.cz payment is due
05:24   looksaus        oh, k, wasn't clear to me
05:24   Ekushey jono: ok, thanks
05:24   jono    more on the backlog later :P
05:24   rejden  would be possible to get some edgy PPC as well somehow?
05:24   rejden  like 20 or something
05:24   jono    now this is the dilemma:
05:25   jono    (rejden, not sure about PPC CDs btw)
05:25   craigaa is it possible to customise for each team?
05:25   rejden  same question as craigaa
05:25   jono    we want to get details from all those teams who want CDs but we don't want stacks and stack of seperate emails
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05:25   jono    naturally though, most teams won't want to update a wiki page with their postal address
05:25   jsgotangco      brb
05:26   jenda   jono, understandable... but how do that?
05:26   jono    so I have been trying to figure something out, but I think mailing in will be the only way
05:26   jono    there seems no clear and simple solution
05:26   jenda   jono, perhaps a private, passworded gobby session would work :)
05:26   looksaus        jono, I'm not sure we even _want_ edgy CD's...
05:26   Mirv    should gpg be required?
05:26   rejden  yes, mailing seems the only way, or web formular and mailing from it
05:26   jono    so I am gonna talk to Marilize and figure out something
05:26   elkbuntu        jono, i'd volunteer to be victim of the emails and collate the information
05:26   rejden  looksaus, maybe you don't need
05:26   jono    looksaus, not all teams will want them, thats why people will request them
05:26   Belutz  are stickers also included? :)
05:26   Mirv    i think all the locoteams (should) have a gpg key in launchpad etc.
05:26   jono    elkbuntu, the problem is of privacy
05:26   jenda   Belutz: I can send you some ;)
05:27   jono    elkbuntu, but thanks, maybe we can figure something out
05:27   Belutz  jenda: wow, thanks :)
05:27   jono    Mirv, thats not a bad idea - an encryped address
05:27   technolalia     with addresses, is it a case of someone volunteering to receive cds at their home address on behalf of the loco?
05:27   jono    technolalia, yep
05:27   rejden  technolalia, seems so
05:27   craigaa yes
05:27   elkbuntu        technolalia, very few locos have premises
05:27   jono    thats how it normally works
05:27   MagicFab        jono: wikipages or LP pages can be restricted in access, can't they ?
05:27   rejden  jono, I won't make my private adress public
05:28   jono    MagicFab, yes
05:28   jono    tobe honest, I am thinking emails with specific headers an a mail filter are the best thing to do
05:28   jono    dealing with GPG or locked pages is a pain in the ass
05:28   lophyte jono: I have a question regarding CD shipments but its not really related to the loco meeting.. can I talk to you afterward about it?
05:28   ondrej  I have no problem exposing my work address...
05:28   jono    lophyte, sure! :)
05:28   MagicFab        I guess each team should have a LP /wiki page and be able to restrict its access (for priivacy), make that part of the process to be approved (if CDs requires)
05:28   lophyte alright
05:28   jono    in the future I would like LP modified to handle this
05:28   rejden  MagicFab, too complicated
05:28   jono    this will be discussed at the UDS
05:28   Kuyaedz jono: mail filters probably sounds best.  easiest to sort through anyway
05:29   craigaa It should be possible to flag ship[it users as loco contacts
05:29   jono    ok, well I will get onto it
05:29   jono    so, any questions about Edgy CDs? including lophyte if you like
05:29   looksaus        jono, sorry if I'm interrupting something else, but...
05:29   Kuyaedz just let us know what subject to use :)
05:29   jono    Kuyaedz, yeah
05:29   jono    looksaus, ...
05:29   MagicFab        rejden, I mean, Loco contacts know *at least* how to edit /create Wiki/LP pages...
05:29   lophyte jono: actually, its a question about shipit
05:29   looksaus        the policy about edgy is that it is for people who like to be at the cutting edge, right
05:29   looksaus        ?
05:29   Kuyaedz would hate to have our teams request funneled off to the spam folder
05:29   technolalia     how are national loco teams to distribute the cds round their country?
05:30   rejden  MagicFab, they should :)
=== jenda gotta run - later
05:30   elkbuntu        technolalia, that's for each country to figure out i guess
05:30   jono    looksaus, edgy is not LTS, so is not supported, but includes more up to date software
05:30   lophyte technolalia: have chapters in localities?
05:30   jono    dapper is still recommended for long term supported sites
05:30   MagicFab        technolalia, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuInLibraries
05:30   JanC    jono: "not supported" ?
=== ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: LoCo | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 18 Oct 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 19 Oct 23:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 23 Oct 19:00 UTC: Accessibility Team | 25 Oct 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 26 Oct 07:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team
05:30   Belutz  technolalia, my plan for my country is to send some CD's into local LUG and Universities
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05:30   jono    JanC, no long term support afaik
05:31   jono    will be supported for a few years but not the five years like dapper
05:31   JanC    yes, but there is short time support, I hope :)
05:31   looksaus        mustn't it be made very clear that we should pitch these edgy cd's to the more advanced users then
05:31   jono    JanC, oh yes :)
05:31   JanC    1.5 years IIRC
05:31   jono    technolalia, distribution of CDs is up to you guys :P
05:31   MagicFab        jono,  hopefully the artwork makes it clear full reproduction is permitted /granted, if all proprietary software included permits to do so.
05:31   Mirv    looksaus: I think it should be fine for any home user, just not companies
05:31   Kuyaedz I don't consider Edgy for "advanced users", but it isn't LTS like Dapper
05:31   craigaa I see most edgy cds going to lugs
05:32   jono    MagicFab, there is no propreiatary software in edgy
05:32   jono    MagicFab, not sure of the art, not seen it yet
05:32   JanC    yeah, LTS is for rusty companies with 3-year-plans and the like  :)
05:32   looksaus        my question is this: I'm a bit reluctant to pitch edgy to non-technical end users
05:32   lophyte why?
05:32   jono    looksaus, why?
05:32   jono    thats are market
05:32   looksaus        because of the support thing...
05:32   jono    support thing?
05:32   looksaus        support cycle
05:33   lophyte its supported for 1.5 years
05:33   Kuyaedz looksaus: it isn't any more advanced than dapper, just not supported as long.
05:33   nixternal       it will still get 18 months of support
05:33   MagicFab        jono, no frmware, no restricted-modules... no commercial repos ?
05:33   Kuyaedz looksaus: its still supported for 18months
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05:33   Mirv    looksaus: edgy should be even easier than dapper for the people. it's supported for 18 months like everything before dapper, and it can easily be updated to a newer distribution version
05:33   jono    MagicFab, everything in edgy is free software
05:33   Kuyaedz jono: coughfirefoxcough
05:33   jono    MagicFab, afaik it is fully redistributable
05:33   looksaus        and also it received new features that make it a bit more...edgy
=== Kuyaedz ducks & covers for the flamewar
05:33   lophyte firefox won't be called firefox in edgy.
05:33   looksaus        it works like a charm here...
05:33   nixternal       firefox is free, the icon isn't
05:33   JanC    jono:  that's not the same  :)
05:33   Mirv    jono: does edgy not install restricted component, what?
05:33   lophyte and thus is still free software
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05:34   jono    JanC, eh?
05:34   elkbuntu        this is not a line of discussion appropriate for this meeting
05:34   jono    yes this is all offtopic
05:34   looksaus        but my point is that it gets messy when you still ship dapper to end users
05:34   lophyte agreed, elkbuntu
05:34   Mirv    jono: it might be redistributable, but it's not free software when it comes to those ca. 5 packages in restricted
05:34   jono    lets get back onto CD availability
05:34   JanC    binary-only freeware is also fully redistributable
05:34   jono    please, lets move on...
05:34   jono    any other questions about edgy CDs?
05:35   Belutz  jono: do you know *when* the CD's are going to be process for shipping?
05:35   Kuyaedz just the details. when & how do we contact you for shipping information?
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05:35   jono    one sec phone
05:35   craigaa has a price been set for edgy cds as yet?
05:35   looksaus        hm, while we have a few secs...
05:35   elkbuntu        i think any further discussion can be done on the mailing list, so it is better archived
05:35   nixternal       middle of november was the last date i heard
05:36   lophyte hey nixternal, do you usually pay duties/taxes on your large CD shipments?
05:36   nixternal       nope
05:36   lophyte what the heck..
05:36   jono    ack
05:36   jono    back
05:36   lophyte I got an invoice yesterday, requiring me to pay $26.50 on my shipment of 160CDs
05:36   jono    Belutz, not sure when shipping will be
05:36   craigaa I have to, unfortunately
05:36   nixternal       just received 2 big shipments for the conferences coming up...even got me a tux costume for some sucker to wear
05:36   jono    Kuyaedz, for contacts, contact Marilize
05:37   jono    craigaa, in terms of prices for sale, its being discussed at the moment
05:37   craigaa k
05:37   Ekushey lophyte: here in bangladesh, we need to pay good amount of tax for the cds as well
05:37   lophyte jono: can I get a contact for marilize from you? I need to speak with her regarding a shipment
05:37   JanC    lophyte: I got an invoice for almost 30 EUR sales & import tax on the free powered by ubuntu stickers  :-(
05:38   lophyte wow :\
05:38   jono    lophyte, best mailing the shipit info address on the shipit site - that goes to marilize I believe
05:38   lophyte ah, alright.
05:38   jono    any other queries?
05:38   jono    we could do with getting this lot into the FAQ
05:39   elkbuntu        definately
05:39   MagicFab        There's info about taxes/duties at "Will I have to pay taxes/duties?" -> http://www.ubuntu.com/support/faq#head-7eef2db63e0a75424cdd663ee6f7b8eedcf19607
05:39   jono    this brings me onto another point
05:39   jono    I would love to see the FAQ filled to the brim with details
05:39   JanC    whether you have to pay taxes seems more like some sort of roulette to me
05:40   jono    if you discover or learn something that is not in thwe FAQ, please add it :)
05:40   elkbuntu        feel free to add suggestions you want us to answer
05:40   Belutz  brb
05:40   jono    cool
05:40   jono    just anything you think is missing mainly
05:40   jono    would be nice to see the FAQ grow over time :)
05:41   elkbuntu        especially considering neither jono nor i have quite mastered mind reading :)
05:41   jono    so, summing up edgy CDs I will speak to marilize and post to the list about everything
05:41   craigaa k
05:41   jono    elkbuntu, nearly there...just getting it perfected... :P
05:41   jono    so, final point is the approval process
05:41   jono    in the last week I have refined this so LoCo teams need to make an approval wiki page for the CC to view
05:42   MagicFab        jono: just before that... will labels be available/.included in those 500 CD shipments / other stuff ?
05:42   jono    this should make approving teams easier
05:42   jono    MagicFab, labels?
05:42   MagicFab        jono: Ubuntu labels (like previously)
05:42   JanC    stickers ?  :)
05:42   elkbuntu        MagicFab, stickers?
05:43   MagicFab        eh, yeah, stickers :D
05:43   jono    no idea about stickers
=== MagicFab spends too much time at the printers
05:43   jono    they are treated seperately to Cds though I think
05:43   MagicFab        ok, go
05:43   jono    I will check into it
05:44   jono    so, I have made https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoGettingApproved to streamline the process
05:44   jono    if any of you want your teams approving
=== MagicFab would rather get 500 stickers than 500 CDs for his team(s)
05:44   jono    read that page and then mail me your application
05:44   craigaa How about someone (Jono?) being empowered to approve LoCo teams without having to get CC approval in advance?
05:44   MagicFab        craigaa, I was thinking *we* discuss applications here before CC
05:44   jono    craigaa, well this has been discussed, and at the UDS I am going to propose this
05:44   jono    MagicFab, I disagree - having a discussion here *and* at the CC is too much
05:45   jono    I am trying to reduce red tape, not add to it :P
05:45   MagicFab        jono: at the CC would merely be you and perhaps 2 other Loco contacts (other that those applying) to vouch for them...
05:45   jono    right..
05:45   jono    and..
05:45   MagicFab        particularly for the upcoming backlog I see for the next few weeks
05:46   elkbuntu        it should more be that jono act as a filter to stop the not-quite applications before they get as far as the CC
05:46   jono    to get rid of the backlog we need teams making applications, I will identify that applications are good, and if so put them in front of the CC
05:46   MagicFab        elkbuntu, +1
05:46   jono    thats what I do MagicFab :)
05:47   jono    so the plan is to get the backlog fixed up ASAP
05:47   MagicFab        jono, perhaps not here but in the mailing list ()which I haven't been following lately).
05:47   jono    I also have some things to add to the approval howto after todays first shot at approvals
05:47   jono    any questions regarding this process?
05:47   MagicFab        I'd rather raise issues like I had with Ubuntu Pakistan before the CC (not while in it)
05:48   jono    MagicFab, that is what the CC is for
05:48   jono    to get people there to discuss issues
05:48   MagicFab        perhaps just invite other loco teams contacts to comment on applications before they're on the CC
05:48   jono    it makes no sense to discuss some issues on one day and some on another day
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05:48   elkbuntu        MagicFab, jono is quite capable of noticing glaring issues
05:49   jono    MagicFab, also, the approval process is not say a LoCo is vetted by the LoCo community, but by the CC who represent the community
05:49   ondrej  only shame is that biggest IT fair in CZ was last week :-(
05:49   jono    if we open up every application or decision to everyone in the community we would get nowhere quickly
05:49   MagicFab        elkbuntu, I trust that.
05:49   jono    I want to streamline this so people can do cool Loco stuff and not get bogged down in approval processes
05:50   nixternal       i want to do cool LoCo stuff
05:50   jono    :)
05:50   MagicFab        jono, asking for comments doesn't change your final decision.
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05:50   jono    MagicFab, I know, but it takes my time
05:50   jono    and my time is limited
05:51   nixternal       in less than 2 weeks, if you are in chicago, we will have our big conference..actually found out a couple companies might be interested in sponsoring the event...one is some system security company
05:51   jono    I am responsible for all community teams and I want to get the most out of my time without getting bogged down in red tape
05:51   nixternal       which reminds me..i have a conference call soon
05:51   MagicFab        jono, precisely, not *your* time, but time among loco contacts that may want to discuss a new team's application.
05:51   Kuyaedz I think the point is that if we well document the steps and better prepare the teams before submission the whole process will be much quicker for everyone involved.
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05:51   jono    well that is what the CC is for
05:51   jono    if you have concerns, use the CC meeting
05:51   elkbuntu        MagicFab, what you're asking is for 2 layers of peer scrutiny. that will only worsen the process
05:52   elkbuntu        MagicFab, we're trying to lessen the amount of waiting and retrying
05:52   MagicFab        jono, I was commenting on that part opf the process after seing how I did that today and time was missing for other things
05:52   JanC    well, teams who want to get approved can ask approved teams to review their application informally...
05:53   MagicFab        elkbuntu, what you are asking is for only one person deciding. How is that better ? Some memberships wait for *months* and come back several times.
05:53   jono    MagicFab, two layers of commenting are not productive, and we provide a place for comments the CC meeting
05:53   elkbuntu        Some memberships wait for *months* and come back several times. <-- thats what we're trying to *filter*
05:53   jono    MagicFab, how does one person decide? the CC decide
05:53   MagicFab        JanC, that's an idea. Perhaps mention that in the process.
05:54   jono    MagicFab, the problem with two layers of comment is that the first layer of comment needs scheduling, logging, reading, and then some people in the second comment phase will want first phase commentators there
05:54   jono    its waaay too muchc complexity
05:54   jono    right now, teams submit for approval and the CC is there to seek comments
05:55   jono    if the CC meetings are too long, we fix the meetings
05:55   MagicFab        jono, I think JanC's idea is better. Just suggest to applicants that they see /ask for input from other teams
05:55   MagicFab        before they submit.
05:55   jono    I disagree
05:55   MagicFab        jono: are applications posted to the mailing list before the CC ?
05:55   looksaus        why not submit to the mailing list first, then schedule for CC
05:55   looksaus        ?
05:56   jono    look, we provide a forum for comment, the CC meeting - if people have concerns or issues prior to that, they should mail the CC
05:56   jono    I think it would be worthwhile to mention the approval on the list
05:56   jono    but the place for concerns and discussion is the CC meeting
05:56   craigaa Perhaps existing LoCo contacts can assist new teams in preparing their applications before CC approval. Perhaps this will streamline the approvals.
05:56   jono    so the mailing list can tell people that an approval is happening and get to the meeting
05:57   jono    I am happy to make approvals better scheduled, just to not have two seperate comment periods
05:57   JanC    jono: with informal reviews by peers I mean that people can get help with writing their approval request pages
05:57   Kuyaedz craigaa: I figure that is part of what we need to do with the LoCo Docs.  Put together steps, list resources, etc.
05:57   jono    JanC, sure, and thats what we want to encourage :)
05:57   MagicFab        JanC: +1
05:57   jono    so I suggest this process:
05:57   craigaa Kuyaedz plus some basic hands on assistance
05:57   jono    * a team begins writing their approval application, seeks help fro the community if needed
05:57   looksaus        jono, maybe just put in a minimum of x days before the CC meeting?
05:58   looksaus        oops, sorry
05:58   jono    * I look ever it to ensure that the application has all the needed bits and then announce it is going for approval at the next CC meeting
05:58   jono    * people then go to the CC meeting to offer comments if needed
05:58   MagicFab        looksaus, usually anything discusses in the agenda should be there at least a few days before
05:58   jono    I think that hits all the areas :)
05:59   jono    brb
05:59   MagicFab        jono: announcing would in the mailing list, the CC agenda and..
05:59   MagicFab        ?
06:00   elkbuntu        MagicFab, not to mention, when locos are up for approval they appear on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda so if you are concerned you can keep an eye here
06:00   elkbuntu        MagicFab, or, you could join #ubuntu-locoteams and contribute there
06:00   jono    announcing would be on loco-contacts - I would announce that a loco is submitting for approval and list the CC when it will happen
06:01   MagicFab        elkbuntu, I do. The problem is the loco teams's coevrage area people.
06:01   elkbuntu        MagicFab, i do not see you in the channel
06:02   jono    there has been little objection other than MagicFab so I am going to propose the process I mentioned earlier
06:02   looksaus        good idea
06:02   jono    this way the community know of up coming approvals and can offer comment
06:02   MagicFab        jono, not objecting. Actually ++ for mention on the mailing list before the CC.
06:02   jono    good job
06:03   jono    all sorted then :)
06:03   jono    I will modify the docs to reflect this
06:03   elkbuntu        that would mean...
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06:03   MagicFab        elkbuntu, I do check the CC agenda - not often on #u-locoteams
06:03   jono    so, we are largely done, any other issues/
06:03   looksaus        jono, do you still have time for this other issue?
06:03   jono    looksaus, shoot
06:04   jono    I have to go in five mins
06:04   looksaus        sorry, it's the same thing from before: marketing edgy versus dapper, and towards whom?
06:04   jono    looksaus, ahhh ok, think of it in terms of support
06:04   looksaus        could you point me to canonical policy on that?
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06:04   ondrej  jono: domain ubuntu.cz was not payed for and is about to leave DNS system :-( (sent emails to hostmaster@c.c, webmasters@c.c), but I need a promise that this will be looked at
06:04   jono    dapper provides a long support cycle and some companies care about that
06:04   jono    ondrej, mail smurf
06:04   ondrej  jono: email address?
06:04   jono    ondrej, did Canonical buy that for you?
06:05   ondrej  jono: I transfered domain to Canonical last year due trademarks
06:05   jono    looksaus, so recommend dapper to those companies who want an established version of ubuntu that has been released for six months - for other people who are happy to have a newer release, recommend edgy
06:05   jono    ondrej, right, let me get his email address and /msg you with it
06:06   jono    ondrej, got it?
06:07   ondrej  jono: yep, thanks
06:07   craigaa I've got to go people. Thanks for the meeting. See you next time.
06:07   jono    ok any other last minute issues?
06:07   jono    I need to run
06:07   jono    thanks craigaa
06:07   looksaus        sorry for having kept you busy
06:07   Kuyaedz I'm taken care of
06:07   elkbuntu        any other issues can go to the mailing list for consideration next meeting
06:07   jono    can someone ensure the log is online?
06:07   jono    yep
06:07   craigaa ciao
06:07   jono    thanks folks! :)
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06:07   elkbuntu        thanks jono :)
06:07   Kuyaedz thanks. ttyl
06:07   Belutz  thanks jono :)
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06:08   JanC    the log is always on-line  :)
06:08   jono    :)
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06:08   looksaus        hm, guess the meeting is officially closed, so...
06:08   jono    later all!!

MeetingLogs/LoCo-2006-10-17 (last edited 2008-08-06 16:37:51 by localhost)