04:05 jono sorry, was delayed 04:05 jono so, who is here for the meeting? 04:05 ubuntugeek hey martin, hows the forum working out 04:05 zarul me 04:05 morgs me too 04:05 Seveaz me (as spectator) 04:06 dinda dinda, aka Belinda from Texas and Ubuntu Women === BlueT_ Matthew Lien, leader of Ubuntu-TW 04:06 looksaus me 04:06 ubuntugeek me as me 04:06 jono cool 04:06 BlueT_ me 04:06 beuno great, seems it's the most active LoCo on there by far, everyone es pretty happy about having a spanish forum 04:06 beuno me === imtheface Andy from Indonesian Team 04:06 effie_jayx me 04:06 jono is joey here? 04:06 imtheface hi all 04:06 ubuntugeek Great, i am pretty pleased how well the loco forums are doing there. 04:06 effie_jayx Efrain Valles for the Venezuela Team 04:06 morgs Morgan Collett for the South African Team 04:07 jono seems joey is not around 04:07 mruiz Miguel Ruiz -> Chilean Team 04:07 beuno we're pleased too ;D - I might take a few minutes of our time later if you can spare it about a small bug on the tagging system 04:07 ubuntugeek sure no problem.. 04:07 jono ok, who suggested the loco communications item? 04:07 effie_jayx ME === beuno Martin Albisetti from the Argentina LoCo 04:08 looksaus jono, before we start, it might be interesting to to make a summary of what was discussed (either through gobby or one volunteer) 04:08 jono looksaus: this meeting is logged 04:08 looksaus something that can be easily digested by al locoteams list readers... === beuno volunteers 04:08 jono if someone wants to summarise it, that would be great 04:08 beuno I can right it up in spanish and english 04:08 looksaus beuno, that would be splendid! 04:08 jono in fact, it would be awesome to have regular meeting summaries posted to loco-contacts after each meeting 04:08 jono thanks beuno 04:08 beuno np 04:09 jono so, loco communication 04:09 jono who added that? 04:09 effie_jayx me 04:09 effie_jayx I added InterloCo comunication 04:09 jono what do you mean by that effie_jayx? 04:10 effie_jayx ok... to avodi fragmnetation... I think more contact from other loCo within a region is a good way 04:10 jono right, so what kind of region? 04:10 effie_jayx jono, lok at south america 04:10 jono in a country? in a continent? 04:10 mruiz for example, comunication between latin american LoCo 04:10 effie_jayx ajam 04:10 looksaus you mean because of the language barrier? 04:10 mruiz yes 04:10 beuno same speaking language LoCo's would be a good example 04:11 looksaus (towards using the EN speaking list) 04:11 jono there has been some discussion about uniting loco teams at a language level as well as a country level 04:11 beuno they might tend to duplicate translation efforts 04:11 jono the difficult thing here is that there is no single rule we can apply for how things are divided up 04:12 jono for example, in the US, it makes sense to divide things at a state level 04:12 jono but it would not make sense to divide the UK at a country level for example 04:12 effie_jayx sure but as a whole latin america is a big group of peope... 04:12 effie_jayx and in the past week 04:12 beuno maybe some centralized place wher everyone can put what they're working on 04:12 beuno and what they've done 04:13 effie_jayx the teams have joined in a very nice way but without folloing a blueprint or previous experience 04:13 looksaus there is of course a real danger of fragmentation in the sense of 04:13 BlueT_ beuno: sounds nice 04:13 looksaus spanish speaking teams growing into a kind of isle 04:13 beuno that way before starting a proyect you can check out if someone is already puruing it, and help them out 04:13 looksaus that doesn't communicate enough with the non-spanish speaking world 04:14 effie_jayx looksaus interesting that you mention 04:14 looksaus how would you stimulate these teams to communicate with the rest of the world? 04:14 effie_jayx I am new to the loCo team work 04:14 beuno that would be a great idea, group LoCo's by language and have some sort of intercomunication between them, someone willing to translate what's going on 04:14 effie_jayx and I am here representing my loco 04:14 mruiz these are latin america teams: Argentina, Bolivia, Colombia, Chile, Costa Rica, Guatemala, Espan~a, Mexico, Peru, Venezuela 04:15 beuno but also, Spain, which happens to be in a different continent 04:15 effie_jayx when I brought the question to jono 04:15 jono so how do we think we can improve communication? 04:15 jono it seems to me that geographically close teams should start out be just engaging in communication 04:15 nejode i'm with you effie_jayx 04:16 effie_jayx jono, we need to follow a path to better communication within ourselves (loco teams in lat america) 04:16 effie_jayx and we turned to you to ask if there is a 04:16 jono effie_jayx: how many teams are in latin america? 04:16 effie_jayx aprecendet... 04:16 effie_jayx around 11 04:17 effie_jayx and we need to keep ourselves oriented to what the loCo's in europe are doing 04:17 looksaus effie_jayx, would it make sense to create comm infrastructure based upon common language, rather than geography? 04:17 jono right, so there 11 teams in the same refion? 04:17 jono region === beuno just found out the spanish team seems to think they englobe all latin america "Spain and Latin America" 04:17 looksaus because that seems to be the barrier not to participate directly in the general loco list right? 04:18 effie_jayx looksaus, part of it... yes... 04:18 beuno I agree, language is the barrier, not geographical location 04:18 jono yes 04:18 BlueT_ agree 04:18 jono the real key here is language 04:19 beuno I count 8 LoCo teams listed that speak spanish 04:19 mruiz the main idea is to coordinate between latin american LoCo 04:19 jono I think we need to think of ways in which we can unite similar languages but maintain their own location 04:19 beuno spanish-speaking LoCo's ;D 04:19 jono we don't want language connections to fragement the general community though 04:20 looksaus jono, maybe if you remember the discussion we had last week 04:20 looksaus we can grab some solution from there 04:20 beuno jono, that's why I think maybe we can have ppl in charge of comunicating to the other languages 04:20 effie_jayx jono, we want to help out send the message... 04:20 beuno summing up every 2 weeks or something like that 04:20 effie_jayx jono, nejode and I come from the venezuela team... 04:20 effie_jayx jono, and there ... people have just begun to discover all the LoCo team related stuff. 04:21 BlueT_ jono: just like ubuntu-zh includes ubuntu-tw, ubntu-cn and ubuntu-hk ? 04:21 effie_jayx new vs arpoved and the benefits of being aproved 04:21 looksaus like... if you create a mailing list for spanish speaking teams, add a header or footer to lure users to the main international list 04:21 beuno I don't think that you *need* to have all spanish speaking ppl in one mailing list 04:21 effie_jayx and the benefits of being talknig to people that have the same issues all around the world ... not to invent the wheel again 04:22 jono sorry reading up 04:22 jono I am in the office today, keep getting called 04:22 looksaus beuno, I'm just suggesting how a communications channel between spanish speaking locoteams should be closely connected to the international one 04:23 beuno looksaus, ooh, sorry 04:23 effie_jayx looksaus, most certainly ... we will look into ir 04:23 beuno like have *regional* LoCo meetings 04:23 beuno and then International 04:23 looksaus there might be more ways than this header/footer idea for a mailing list 04:23 mruiz time ago, I proposed my Spanish Planet Ubuntu idea (https://launchpad.net/products/ubuntu-website/+ticket/1664) to improve comunication between latinamerican LoCo Teams 04:23 beuno so one representative from each region (language) meet 04:23 looksaus mruiz, very good idea! 04:23 effie_jayx looksaus, you are right... and I hope you can understand we want to all stay put to the international comunity 04:24 looksaus of course, just thinking about ways to do so 04:24 effie_jayx looksaus, but not as 1 from chile ,, 2 from venezuela, 3 from argentina ) but as a group 04:24 jono right 04:24 jono so we need to divide this problem into the language and country level 04:25 jono brb phone 04:25 effie_jayx so we can better pass down the information that comes from the mothership (locoteams) :D 04:25 beuno yes, sounds like the most reasonable 04:25 lophylap oh, loco meeting.. damn, totally forgot about that one 04:26 effie_jayx so 04:26 jono back 04:26 zarul lol 04:27 jono backok 04:27 jono I think there is a very obvious need for language connections 04:27 effie_jayx looksaus, I am really intereste in your insight and this is a question that came up 2 weeks a go in the LoCo teams presentaion by elkbuntu 04:27 jono it makes sense for those with similar languages to work together 04:27 beuno maybe all same speaking language teams vote for 1 representative among them 04:27 jono but isnt that just a translation effort? 04:27 BlueT_ all the chinese language LoCo has already solved this problem :p 04:28 jono BlueT_: how? 04:28 looksaus i think not just a translation effort... lots of people don't have the skills to express themselves in EN 04:28 BlueT_ jono: we had aleady have our channel and mailing list 04:28 beuno jono, part of the problem is translation, but part of it might be centralizing information (and this applies to all LoCo's) 04:28 jono beuno: hang on a sec, centralising translated docs? 04:28 jono or all docs? === beuno scrolls 04:29 BlueT_ jono: geo-depend problem are solved by LoCo channels and mailing lists 04:29 beuno <beuno> maybe some centralized place wher everyone can put what they're working on 04:29 jono beuno: thats the ubuntu wiki 04:29 effie_jayx jono, ajam... 04:29 looksaus beuno, and the locoteams mailing list 04:29 jono and for generic loco documentation, that does in the loco knowledge base 04:29 jono looksaus: indeed 04:29 BlueT_ jono: ubuntu-zh channel and mailing list are for all chanese LoCo 04:29 beuno but is there somewhere I can go and see "ok, I'm not going to translate the CoC because the venezuela team already did" 04:30 BlueT_ jono: to solved language-depend problems 04:30 jono beuno: nope, but this is more of a rosetta problem 04:30 jono I don't think we can solve this at a policy level 04:30 looksaus jono, the problem is getting those who are not comfortable speaking/reading EN to see what happens in the rest of the world 04:30 jono it is indeed a problem, but I think we need to feed more content through rosetta and allow loco teams to subscribe to languages 04:30 looksaus and to push out what happens in theirs 04:30 effie_jayx jono, at the same time it is our issue... cuz my Loco 04:31 jono looksaus: I understand, and I agree 04:31 beuno well, at a policy level what I think might solve it is having "regional" (language) meetings, and have 1 or 2 ppl represent them in international meetings 04:31 beuno defeating the language barrier 04:31 looksaus beuno, we're too much a volunteer group to rely on that 04:31 jono looksaus: but then again, why would a french speaker in canada care about what is happening in france? 04:31 mruiz bueno, in Chilean Wiki we have the spanish CoC 04:32 beuno mruiz, http://www.uluga.com.ar/wiki/CoC 04:32 beuno ;D 04:32 beuno see what I mean 04:32 looksaus jono, because it might actually be a very good idea that is also interesting to someone in Denmark 04:32 BlueT_ jono: it had been worked for a year :) 04:32 mruiz bueno, http://wiki.ubuntu-cl.org/FirmandoElCodigoDeConductaComo 04:32 jono looksaus: I think this is too big a problem to solve with an open process like we have - there is no way to update locos of interest with informaton that is specific to a particular context 04:32 jono unless I am not understanding the problem? 04:33 jono BlueT_: what has? explain what you did 04:33 effie_jayx jono, the proble goes beyond the language... 04:33 BlueT_ 23:29 < BlueT_> jono: geo-depend problem are solved by LoCo channels and mailing lists 04:33 BlueT_ 23:29 < BlueT_> jono: ubuntu-zh channel and mailing list are for all chanese LoCo 04:33 beuno mruiz, oh, we translated the CoC itself, you translated "how to sign it" 04:33 BlueT_ 23:30 < BlueT_> jono: to solved language-depend problems 04:33 mruiz bueno, http://wiki.ubuntu-cl.org/CodigoDeConducta/Version1.0.1 04:33 jono BlueT_: right, so problems for a specific team are solved on their mailing list and channel? 04:33 beuno ;D 04:33 BlueT_ jono: yes 04:33 beuno then we both duplicated efforts on that 04:34 jono effie_jayx: where else is the problem? 04:34 BlueT_ jono: and we're building a co-maintain wiki site 04:34 jono BlueT_: right, and every team has their own list and channel? what is the problem? 04:34 effie_jayx jono, I am thinking people are not understanding the ubuntu culture ... 04:34 jono so is the problem we are discussing, how we solve two teams with the same language translating the same things, because they never knew they were doing it? 04:34 effie_jayx or they are living it in their own way... which is good 04:34 beuno I think having a language-based list and channel doesn't solve anything if it's not organized to take advantage of it 04:34 effie_jayx but in my loco 04:35 effie_jayx things were being done truth a lug 04:35 jono if the problem is the one I listed above, then that is a Rosetta issue, and not something we can solve 04:35 BlueT_ jono: approved LoCo members will hang on both side (LoCo channel and co-maintain channel) 04:35 jono I think we can make strides to improve communication between teams where possible, and I like the idea of having a general mailing list for languages 04:35 effie_jayx which help keepping it a float for a while ... but not counting with some language councelor really made it difficul 04:35 jono BlueT_: sorry, co-maintain channel? 04:36 looksaus my understanding of the problem is: x spanish speaking locoteams have a lot of information to share, but few of the members are good EN speakers 04:36 beuno looksaus, that sums it up 04:36 looksaus so a lot of information doesn't come down from the locoteams list, and doesn't go up to the locoteams list 04:36 BlueT_ jono: ooops.. i don't know how to explain it... just like #ubuntu-some-language 04:36 jono BlueT_: right, so you mean an IRC channel for a language 04:37 BlueT_ jono: core members of ubuntu-tw, ubuntu-cn, and ubuntu-hk will all on both #ubuntu-CC and #ubuntu-ZH (ZongHua) 04:37 jono looksaus: right, so the problem is how to better integrate non-EN speakers into the community 04:37 mruiz looksaus, this is the real language problem! 04:37 looksaus absolutely 04:37 effie_jayx jono, yessss : 04:37 effie_jayx :D 04:37 beuno jono, exactly what I had in mind 04:38 BlueT_ jono: those people share informations on the channel 04:38 looksaus so what I was proposing was to have some spanish communication channel that stimulates those spanish speakers who _are_ proficient in english to make sure information flows from and to the main (EN speaking) channel 04:39 zarul that is a good idea 04:39 jono looksaus: I agree its a problem, but its impossible to solve - there is no process or structure we can create to get everyone involved, other than manding english as the normal language for communication, which we do now 04:39 jono looksaus: I think that it would be difficult to have ambassadors who speak english to feed non-english content back upstream 04:39 beuno jono, maybe part of the LoCo instructions on how to manage a LoCo can intruct that team leaders should have fluent communication between them 04:39 Seveaz jono: we coulda ll learn esperanto... 04:40 looksaus jono, not formally appointed people 04:40 jono I think we should encourage each loco team to have an english speaker though 04:40 beuno once they are in communication then the rest of the info will flow by itself 04:40 jono you know, it sucks that we have to always talk in english for a bunch of people, but there is no other way around it 04:41 ypsila pruhust 04:41 jono right now we require english as the language, but I think we only require english for interaction with the wider loco team project 04:41 jono so the loco can talk entirely in their own language, but only need to use english when talking to the wider project 04:41 effie_jayx jono, we are not bothered by all the English... believe me ... 04:41 jono effie_jayx: right 04:42 effie_jayx jono, 75 % of the content on the internet is in English 04:42 BlueT_ jono: absolutly 04:42 beuno I don't think that's where the problem should be solved, I think we need to make sure somehow the information gets passed around enough 04:42 jono beuno: what information and passed where? 04:42 looksaus jono, no matter how you turn it, a spanish speaking channel is going to grow anyway 04:42 jono looksaus: I never said I didnt want that? 04:43 jono I am happy for any language channel to grow, thats fine 04:43 BlueT_ looksaus: just register it from ChanServ 04:43 looksaus no, of course not, but the thing we should do is make sure the relevant information discussed there gets passed around 04:43 effie_jayx looksaus, but people could keep an eye on it... and make shure the efforts for streamlining things in loCo's around the wolrd don't leave the spanish people behind 04:43 looksaus stimulate that 04:43 beuno jono, if all the spanish speaking LoCo's have some sort of *standarized* communication then at least they all know what's going on between them. They're always going to be english speaking memebers that will bring those issues up in the wider project of the LoCo's 04:43 looksaus exactly what I'm trying to suggest practival solutions for 04:43 jono looksaus: sure, and again, I agree, but how do we do that? we can't just assign people to do it for us, it never works, so how do we do it in a natural way? 04:44 looksaus jono, like we discussed for not fragmenting newsletter and active core for 1 loco... 04:44 beuno yeap 04:44 jono looksaus: what do you mean? 04:44 beuno 1 member per LoCo to comunicate with all the rest of same-language speaking ones 04:44 looksaus one useful step would be to add a header/footer to every mailing list message of this spanish list 04:44 jono sorry, I think I have missed bits of discussion here 04:44 beuno that's all 04:44 looksaus that encourages participation to the intl list 04:45 jono right 04:45 looksaus clearly pointing to the intl list in the mailing list definition 04:45 looksaus things like that 04:45 jono I think in the project now, it is clear that locos should be reading loco-contacts 04:46 Ma1kel SUSE 10.2 FOR LIVE 04:46 Ma1kel j/k 04:46 jono looksaus: what do you mean for the newsletter? 04:46 looksaus err, we assembled a list of +-100 people who were not interested in following the intense communication on the locoteam list 04:47 looksaus but they were interested in ubuntu related activities in Belgium 04:47 jono ahhh, the -announce thing 04:47 looksaus yes 04:47 jono right, I am with you 04:47 jono sorry === jono is going nuts! :P 04:47 looksaus :) 04:47 looksaus join the club :p 04:47 ypsila :-D 04:47 Ma1kel Yea guys thinking about adding a Slab menu for Feisty? 04:47 Ma1kel *You 04:48 beuno how about having a LoCo regional meeting to discuss this, manually contact all of them, and see what ideas popup? 04:48 effie_jayx beuno, sounds ok 04:48 zarul yea, that will make things easier 04:48 jono well I think the discussion of -announce lists is something we could discuss at the next meeting 04:48 zarul and it will solve a lot of things, including the timezone issue 04:49 looksaus ok (just mentioned it because of similarities with the native language loco comm channels) 04:49 jono I think a general -announce list may be a good idea 04:49 jono for the loco teams, that is 04:50 effie_jayx ok 04:50 mruiz jono, can we vote for meeting date and hour? 04:50 jono my concern is that if every loco has an -announce list, we balloon the number of lists, and it may fragment discussion, unless each -announce list can only have a single poster 04:51 jono mruiz: nope, we set them fortnightly 04:51 mruiz :-( 04:51 jono mruiz: so the next one is two weeks today 04:51 beuno jono, that's what I'm thinking, one person per LoCo 04:51 looksaus jono, maybe better keep this for next meeting... getting close to going overtime... 04:51 looksaus ? 04:51 jono yeah 04:51 ubuntu_demon hey 04:51 jono lets defer this to the next meeting, good work chaps :) 04:51 mruiz good bye jono 04:51 effie_jayx :D 04:52 looksaus beuno, you still feel like summarising this mess? :) 04:52 beuno lol 04:52 jono mruiz: I am staying for the CC meeting :P === looksaus too 04:52 mruiz jono, me too :P 04:52 jono mruiz: :) 04:52 LoudMouthMan theres a meeting ? 04:52 beuno who should I send it to? 04:52 jono LoudMouthMan: :) 04:52 mruiz LoudMouthMan, LoCo meeting 04:52 jono beuno: send it to me === BlueT_ same here 04:53 Ma1kel 8 minutes till meeting 04:53 jono heya MikeB- 04:53 Ma1kel The idea is jerking me off right here 04:53 looksaus hi MikeB- ! 04:53 beuno jono, email address? 04:53 Seveaz Ma1kel: behave 04:53 MikeB- hello all 04:53 looksaus beuno, or the list... 04:53 jono beuno: jono AT ubuntu DOT com 04:54 beuno looksaus, I'll send it to jono first to make sure it's OK 04:54 jono I think regular meeting summaries with rock :) 04:54 beuno I don't mind doing summeries at all === looksaus too! you rock beuno === beuno ;D 04:55 mruiz that's a good idea 04:55 ubuntu_demon MikeB = Mike Basinger or Mike Braniff ? 04:55 MikeB- Mike Basinger