04:04   markvandenborre who is here for the locoteams meeting?
04:05   GazzaK  hi or something
04:05   markvandenborre anyone else?
04:05   markvandenborre Seveas, you awake?
04:05   markvandenborre JanC,
04:08   dsas    https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoTeamMeeting is the meeting agenda
04:08   dsas    I think I read on the list that Jono may not be able to make it.
04:09   Seeker` Does jono have to be here for the meeting to happen?
04:09   markvandenborre dsas, you feel like guiding this meeting?
=== Seeker` thinks it was very kind of dsas to volunteer :P
04:09   dsas    bah
04:09   markvandenborre :)
04:10   markvandenborre dsas, is that a yes or a no?
04:10   effie_jayx      Seeker`, he said he was not attending
04:10   dsas    that's a "please someone else step up"
04:10   markvandenborre ok, I'll see what we can make out of this
=== _nairoV applauds markvandenborre
04:11   dsas    I don't know anything about the issues in the agenda...
04:11   markvandenborre 1. https://launchpad.net/products/ubuntu-website/+bug/51382
04:11   Ubugtu  Malone bug 51382 in ubuntu-website "Suggestion: LoCo Teams to Free Support Page" [Undecided,Fix released]
04:12   markvandenborre joey doesn't seem to be around
04:12   markvandenborre anyone else was involved?
04:12   markvandenborre any thoughts about it that might be interesting to add to the discussion?
04:13   markvandenborre let's take 2 minutes to read through it
04:13   markvandenborre for those who haven't yet, then comment
04:13   dsas    I've pinged mdke.
04:15   dsas    Right, so what we need to do is ask each team if they provide that kind of support and make a list on the wiki, then get mdke to change the link.
04:16   _nairoV do we have said wiki page?
04:16   dsas    _nairoV: Not yet.
04:16   markvandenborre I thought I had seen it in some mailing list post
04:16   _nairoV dsas: thanks
04:17   markvandenborre any more suggestions on this?
04:17   dsas    markvandenborre: I didn't see anything likely in CategoryLoCoTeams
04:18   markvandenborre maybe we should post on the locoteams list about this
04:18   _nairoV markvandenborre: we are setting up framewrok for face to face support in Ohio
04:18   markvandenborre _nairoV, same thing for us
04:19   _nairoV I think it would be helpful for there to be one page to rule them all....
04:19   dsas    markvandenborre: Yeah, we should post on the list, with a link to a wiki page and let people update it.
04:19   markvandenborre Belgian team has this highly succesful user map
04:19   dsas    a FaceToFaceSupport page name sound ok?
04:19   markvandenborre ok, so one wiki page with the kinds of local face-to-face support teams give, right?
04:19   _nairoV dsas: yes
04:19   markvandenborre dsas, sounds fine to me...
04:20   markvandenborre dsas, you do it, and post to the mailing list?
04:20   dsas    markvandenborre: sure.
04:20   markvandenborre ok, any other comments on this?
04:21   markvandenborre next point
04:21   markvandenborre interloco communications
04:21   markvandenborre I believe (not sure) this has something to do with language problems, mostly
04:22   markvandenborre of certain countries not having many people who are fluent enough in English to follow the locoteams mailing list
04:22   markvandenborre getting information to flow between the international locoteams list and the local one is sometimes really difficult
04:22   markvandenborre ideas for improving that?
04:23   Vorian_ markvandenborre: what about a loco planet?
04:23   markvandenborre please explain yourself?
04:24   Vorian_ similar to http://planet.ubuntulinux.org/
04:25   markvandenborre Vorian_, how would that help solve the language problem?
04:26   markvandenborre it's basicly about having a quite active Chinese community for example, but few people who speak English enough in this community
04:26   Vorian_ not so sure, just an idea lol
04:26   markvandenborre :)
04:27   Zelut   markvandenborre: perhaps assign ambassadors to teams that need translators, etc.
04:27   dsas    Hm, there must be a few english speakers that can act as go betweens
04:27   effie_jayx      ambassadors help a great deal :D
04:27   markvandenborre ok, so how can we make their jobs easier?
04:28   markvandenborre this is probably why something like ubuntu weekly news is so important
04:29   markvandenborre because it condenses a lot of information from the international community into something easily translatable
04:29   dsas    how can we encourage people to translate it?
04:30   dsas    maybe we can add a note to the UWN itself asking for translators
04:30   markvandenborre by giving it a maximum length, for example?
04:30   markvandenborre the last one (before christmas I believe) was _really_ long
04:30   Vorian_ markvandenborre: that should help...
04:31   dsas    Yeah, they are growing a lot, I don't imagine the marketing team being eager to shrink it though
04:31   dsas    we could possibly flag up certain sections to be a higher priority to be translated
04:31   markvandenborre dsas, they probably should, to make it easier for translations to get through...
04:31   markvandenborre it's also about being read in the english capable community
04:31   markvandenborre too long, won't get read entirely
04:32   markvandenborre maybe we could also include a call for translators into it, if that doesn't happen already?
04:32   dsas    markvandenborre: To shorten it will require some contact with the marketing team, we should see what their response is.
04:32   markvandenborre (well, "we", I mean, we could suggest the uwn people to do so)
04:32   markvandenborre ok,
04:33   markvandenborre so getting information out of the mostly native language locoteams to the international community
04:33   markvandenborre any hints on stimulating that?
04:34   dsas    ah, it does contain "If you'd like to read the UWN in your native language, please check http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter for a list of translations." already.
04:34   markvandenborre perfect
04:34   Zelut   i wonder if we could find translators from rosetta.  if they're already working on a language perhaps they wouldn't mind a tad more.
04:35   markvandenborre good point...
04:35   Zelut   and if its just the weekly newsletter it shouldn't be *too* much extra work.. I wouldn't think
04:36   markvandenborre so how about getting this really interesting news fact out of the Kurdistan or Bhutan team to the international community?
04:36   markvandenborre (locoteams community)
04:37   markvandenborre maybe stimulate them to send in robot translations + the original if they can't find a translation immediately?
04:37   Zelut   thats where I think the ambassadors come in.  making sure information flows both ways
04:37   markvandenborre k
04:38   markvandenborre next point, or we'll be running over time
04:38   Vorian_ :)
04:38   Zelut   recruit someone whos main responsibility is simply translating communications between teams.. I think we could find some interest inthat.
04:38   markvandenborre Zelut, absolutely
04:38   markvandenborre next: locoteams documentation, how to make it more practical
04:40   markvandenborre any thoughts about this?
04:40   Zelut   you referring to the locoteamshowto, locoteamslist, etc?
04:40   markvandenborre loco docs, loco faq, locoteam howto,...
04:40   markvandenborre this stuff, yes
04:41   markvandenborre it might be really interesting to compile all the information that has gathered into something more comprehensive
04:41   markvandenborre think a small, easily printable booklet
04:42   markvandenborre right now, there's lots of information, but not always easy to find your way around...
04:42   Zelut   i know it was a lot of guesswork when I created our team
04:42   Vorian_ Zelut: Same with us...
04:42   Zelut   a .pdf printable booklet would be nice I think
04:43   Zelut   a step 1, step 2, etc layout would be nice.
04:43   markvandenborre maybe this is something to see on the mailing list if we can get a few people to work on it
04:43   markvandenborre ?
04:44   markvandenborre I would gladly join such an effort...
04:44   Vorian_ I'll help
04:45   markvandenborre other ways to improve this locoteams howto document?
04:45   markvandenborre documentation, I mean...
04:45   markvandenborre something that is really missing from it?
04:45   Vorian_ I don't think there is
04:46   Vorian_ It is just not organized as well as it could be
04:46   markvandenborre maybe it's also a good idea to have docs about new subjects grow on the wiki first, then include them...
04:47   markvandenborre ok, next point, women's group
04:47   markvandenborre any women around, or people who know what this is about?
04:48   markvandenborre let's all have a brief look at http://ubuntu-women.org/ then...
04:48   JoeyStanford    https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWomen
04:48   JoeyStanford    both are the same
04:49   JoeyStanford    I believe the question was:
04:49   JoeyStanford    Ubuntu Women is a specialized community team (not necessarily Local)
04:49   JoeyStanford    Is there a place for them inside the LoCo structure.
04:49   dsas    I don't see why not, it's the same sort of thing...
04:50   markvandenborre it seems like a perfect fit, considering we also have pure language oriented teams
04:50   markvandenborre they aren't strictly locally linked either
=== JoeyStanford appologizes for being late. His calendaring software said this started in 10 mins, not 50 mins ago. bummer.
04:50   markvandenborre where else would they fit in?
04:50   Zelut   after scanning through the wiki I think it seems more of a team like the marketing team, docs team, etc..
04:50   JoeyStanford    Mark, I think that's the crux.
04:51   Zelut   I think loco focuses more on regional support
04:51   markvandenborre Zelut, locoteams is really broad
04:52   markvandenborre for some things, it's as much about translations as about face to face support
04:52   markvandenborre no locoteam is the same in the tasks it defines for itself
04:52   Seeker` but the LoCo teams that is based on locations, be it countries or langugaes
04:53   Seeker` Women aren't in countries of their own, and they speak the same languages
04:53   markvandenborre there's Kurdish people in Belgium too
04:53   markvandenborre who are part of the Kurdish team...
04:53   markvandenborre and in the us, and everywhere around the globe
04:54   JoeyStanford    Seeker, in this case, the UW group is a world-wide group. You are correct, they do not have a single local area.  The question to me is "do they do the things that a LoCo does but without a set geographical area". If the answer is yes, then they are simply a specialized LoCo.
04:54   markvandenborre Seeker`, do you think it would be bad if they joined the locoteams list?
04:54   Zelut   i think they could work with loco teams in efforts of translation but I don't know about considering them a specialized loco, just a new team
04:55   JoeyStanford    "the LoCo project is here to help groups of Ubuntu fans and enthusiasts work together in regional teams to help advocate, promote, translate, develop and otherwise improve Ubuntu."
04:55   Seeker` markvandenborre: I dont think it would be bad as such, I am just trying to work out wether they are actually a LoCo team or not
04:55   JoeyStanford    If I read their wiki and web page correctly, they have nailed each point except "regional"
04:55   markvandenborre Seeker`, are angels male or female :p
04:55   JoeyStanford    their region would be the Internet.
04:56   markvandenborre I think we don't have to define them as a locoteam or not
04:56   markvandenborre but we and they sure could benefit from communicating
04:56   Seeker` markvandenborre: I haven't given any thought to the question, and it is irrelevant
04:56   markvandenborre and the locoteams list looks like an obvious pleace for that...
04:56   Zelut   again, I think coordinating the loco efforts with them would be beneficial (in the same way we'll help coordinate & translate with the marketing team) but considering them a loco seems to open to the door to consider every team a specialized loco
04:57   Seeker` if you have a womans LoCo team, why not have a LoCo for people called "Chris", or people with brown hair?
04:57   JoeyStanford    Zelut has a good point. One of the concerns at UDS MTV was having multiple LoCos in a region.
04:57   markvandenborre ah, that way you mean...
04:57   markvandenborre Seeker`, would that be a bad thing?
04:58   JoeyStanford    Normally specialized groups fall under the Community Council and not the LoCo team. In this case we have a specialized group which looks like a LoCo team but doesn't have a region.
04:58   markvandenborre you could easily say "even if we're not sure if you're a loco or not, you're welcome"
04:58   Vorian_ I, for one, feel they should be welcome in the loco organization...for what its worth
04:59   markvandenborre okay for everyone if we tackle the next subject?
04:59   Vorian_ should we table it?
04:59   Seeker` I think we have just run out of time
04:59   Vorian_ there is another meeting now
04:59   markvandenborre who is responsible for the next meeting?
05:00   Vorian_ ubuntugeek:
05:00   PriceChild      markvandenborre, ubuntugeek
05:01   markvandenborre how to setup a LoCoteam newsletter (and avoid fragmentation)
05:01   Zelut   what would be included in a locoteam newsletter?
05:02   markvandenborre the issue at stake here is that if you create a passive medium like a newsletter
05:02   dsas    markvandenborre: What is supposed to be in the news letter?
05:02   markvandenborre translated pr for new ubuntu releases
05:02   markvandenborre announcements of events the locoteam participates in
05:02   markvandenborre announcements of other news relevant to the locoteam
05:03   Vorian_ success stories!
05:03   markvandenborre things like that
05:03   markvandenborre the issue jono has with this is
05:03   Zelut   sounds like similar things included in the UWN..
=== JoeyStanford agrees with Zelut.
05:03   markvandenborre yes, but local level only
05:03   markvandenborre something that we need to be very careful about
05:04   markvandenborre is stimulating people who receive the newsletter
05:04   markvandenborre to also join the more active locoteam list
05:04   markvandenborre (so the local team list, not the international one)
05:04   markvandenborre that's something particularly important to jono
05:05   markvandenborre and he has something of a point there
05:05   JoeyStanford    Based on the above, at this time I would favour enhancing the UWN LoCo area over creation of a LoCo only newsletter.
05:06   JoeyStanford    UWN is in the beginnings of having it's issues translated.
05:06   Zelut   I think each of the LoCos probably send out newsletter type updates on their own lists, and we have the UWN which shares larger successes.. sounds like duplication.
05:06   JoeyStanford    Zelut, that's what my team does as well.
05:06   markvandenborre we have the following situation:
05:06   Vorian_ Zelut: ditto
05:06   JoeyStanford    Zelut, but I think Jono's concern is to have one master LoCo newsletter
05:07   markvandenborre lots of people on the locoteam list
05:07   markvandenborre this list is for active participants
05:07   dsas    isn't the news worth folding into UWN though?
05:07   Vorian_ why don't we just start one, and work out any issues that come of it?
05:07   markvandenborre (organising fairs, ...)
05:07   markvandenborre Vorian_, what do you mean?
05:07   Vorian_ plan a newsletter for feb
05:07   Vorian_ see what reactions are
05:07   markvandenborre what kind of a newsletter?
05:08   Vorian_ Loco specific
05:08   markvandenborre what would be the added value of that?
05:08   Vorian_ with the topics you listed earlier
05:08   markvandenborre locoteams list summary you mean?
05:08   Vorian_ yep
05:08   markvandenborre isn't uwn enough?
05:08   markvandenborre they have enough problems already keeping to a schedule
05:09   Vorian_ they could link to the loco news
05:09   markvandenborre JoeyStanford, trying to explain why we are planning to run a local newsletter
05:10   markvandenborre we have a lot of nl (or fr, for that matter) only people around
05:10   markvandenborre who are only interested in more basic news like:
05:10   markvandenborre new releases
05:10   markvandenborre and events where ubuntu-be.org will be present
05:10   markvandenborre this is quite a broad group
05:11   dsas    markvandenborre: Can't you just make a summary for UWN and then include any .be specifics?
05:11   markvandenborre so we're talking really low frequency here
05:11   Vorian_ I say monthly
05:11   dsas    I don't have a problem with local newsletters, I must have misunderstood the idea.
05:11   markvandenborre yes, very well possible
05:11   markvandenborre the potential problem jono sees with this is fragmentation
05:12   markvandenborre people not making the jump from the passive low frequency newsletter to the locoteam itself
05:12   markvandenborre so we were looking for ideas on how to remedy that
05:12   dsas    there's no reason why you can't do your own newsletter and just link in to the few big news when it happens, or link to UWN saying "more news available at"
05:12   markvandenborre good idea...
05:12   Vorian_ dsas: right on
05:13   markvandenborre but also: link from the local newsletter to the local active volunteers mailing list
05:13   JoeyStanford    and more importantly to me, ensure the UWN has the details so we can spread the word to everyone else.
05:13   dsas    yeah, this shouldn't result in less info being passed to UWN
=== JoeyStanford agrees.
05:13   markvandenborre if I understood jono correctly, this was not his objection
05:14   markvandenborre he was more concerned about fragmenting the local community
05:14   markvandenborre any hints on more ways to avoid that?
05:15   dsas    Currently if people don't want to be very active then what choices do they have: don't be part at all? Increasing ways of participation is not a bad thing.
05:15   markvandenborre dsas, my thought exactly
05:16   JoeyStanford    fade to black
05:16   Vorian_ thanks markvandenborre !
05:16   markvandenborre who's still interested, -> #ubuntu-locoteams
05:16   dsas    thanks markvandenborre for chairing

MeetingLogs/Loco-2007-01-09 (last edited 2008-08-06 16:15:38 by localhost)