== raw logs==

<Seeker`> Does jono have to be here for the meeting to happen?
<markvandenborre> dsas, you feel like guiding this meeting?
* Seeker` thinks it was very kind of dsas to volunteer :P
<dsas> bah
<markvandenborre> :)
<markvandenborre> dsas, is that a yes or a no?
<effie_jayx> Seeker`, he said he was not attending
<dsas> that's a "please someone else step up"
<markvandenborre> ok, I'll see what we can make out of this
* _nairoV applauds markvandenborre 
<dsas> I don't know anything about the issues in the agenda...
<markvandenborre> 1. https://launchpad.net/products/ubuntu-website/+bug/51382
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 51382 in ubuntu-website "Suggestion: LoCo Teams to Free Support Page" [Undecided,Fix released]
<markvandenborre> joey doesn't seem to be around
<markvandenborre> anyone else was involved?
<markvandenborre> any thoughts about it that might be interesting to add to the discussion?
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<markvandenborre> let's take 2 minutes to read through it
<markvandenborre> for those who haven't yet, then comment
<dsas> I've pinged mdke.
<markvandenborre> Zelut, https://launchpad.net/products/ubuntu-website/+bug/51382
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 51382 in ubuntu-website "Suggestion: LoCo Teams to Free Support Page" [Undecided,Fix released]
<dsas> Right, so what we need to do is ask each team if they provide that kind of support and make a list on the wiki, then get mdke to change the link.
<_nairoV> do we have said wiki page?
<dsas> _nairoV: Not yet.
 dsas dAndy datten dholbach doko dous 
<markvandenborre> I thought I had seen it in some mailing list post
<_nairoV> dsas: thanks
<markvandenborre> any more suggestions on this?
<dsas> markvandenborre: I didn't see anything likely in CategoryLoCoTeams
<markvandenborre> maybe we should post on the locoteams list about this
<_nairoV> markvandenborre: we are setting up framewrok for face to face support in Ohio
<markvandenborre> _nairoV, same thing for us
<_nairoV> I think it would be helpful for there to be one page to rule them all....
<dsas> markvandenborre: Yeah, we should post on the list, with a link to a wiki page and let people update it.
<markvandenborre> Belgian team has this highly succesful user map
<dsas> a FaceToFaceSupport page name sound ok?
<markvandenborre> ok, so one wiki page with the kinds of local face-to-face support teams give, right?
<_nairoV> dsas: yes
<markvandenborre> dsas, sounds fine to me...
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<markvandenborre> dsas, you do it, and post to the mailing list?
<dsas> markvandenborre: sure.
<markvandenborre> ok, any other comments on this?
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<markvandenborre> 3....
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<markvandenborre> 2....
<markvandenborre> 1....
<markvandenborre> next point
<markvandenborre> interloco communications
<markvandenborre> I believe (not sure) this has something to do with language problems, mostly
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* You are now known as Vorian_
* services. sets mode +e Vorian_
<markvandenborre> of certain countries not having many people who are fluent enough in English to follow the locoteams mailing list
<markvandenborre> getting information to flow between the international locoteams list and the local one is sometimes really difficult
<markvandenborre> ideas for improving that?
 markvandenborre mbamford mdz meatballhat Mithrandir mjg59 moroco mvo_ 
<Vorian_> markvandenborre: what about a loco planet?
<markvandenborre> please explain yourself?
<Vorian_> similar to http://planet.ubuntulinux.org/
<ubuntugeek> hello all
<markvandenborre> hi ubuntugeek
<Vorian_> ubuntugeek: hey
<ubuntugeek> who is here for the FC meeting? anyone
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<markvandenborre> having locoteam meeting right now...
<ubuntugeek> ah yes i am early :)
<ubuntugeek> got my times messes up
<markvandenborre> Vorian_, how would that help solve the language problem?
<markvandenborre> it's basicly about having a quite active Chinese community for example, but few people who speak English enough in this community
<Vorian_> not so sure, just an idea lol
<markvandenborre> :)
<Zelut> markvandenborre: perhaps assign ambassadors to teams that need translators, etc.
<dsas> Hm, there must be a few english speakers that can act as go betweens
<effie_jayx> ambassadors help a great deal :D
<markvandenborre> ok, so how can we make their jobs easier?
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<markvandenborre> this is probably why something like ubuntu weekly news is so important
<markvandenborre> because it condenses a lot of information from the international community into something easily translatable
<dsas> how can we encourage people to translate it?
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<dsas> maybe we can add a note to the UWN itself asking for translators
<markvandenborre> by giving it a maximum length, for example?
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<Vorian_> markvandenborre: that should help...
<markvandenborre> the last one (before christmas I believe) was _really_ long
<dsas> Yeah, they are growing a lot, I don't imagine the marketing team being eager to shrink it though
<dsas> we could possibly flag up certain sections to be a higher priority to be translated
<markvandenborre> dsas, they probably should, to make it easier for translations to get through...
<markvandenborre> it's also about being read in the english capable community
<markvandenborre> too long, won't get read entirely
<markvandenborre> maybe we could also include a call for translators into it, if that doesn't happen already?
<dsas> markvandenborre: To shorten it will require some contact with the marketing team, we should see what their response is.
<markvandenborre> (well, "we", I mean, we could suggest the uwn people to do so)
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<markvandenborre> ok,
<markvandenborre> so getting information out of the mostly native language locoteams to the international community
<markvandenborre> any hints on stimulating that?
<dsas> ah, it does contain "If you'd like to read the UWN in your native language, please check http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter for a list of translations." already.
<markvandenborre> perfect
 dsas dand dAndy datten dholbach doko dous 
<Zelut> i wonder if we could find translators from rosetta.  if they're already working on a language perhaps they wouldn't mind a tad more.
<markvandenborre> good point...
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<Zelut> and if its just the weekly newsletter it shouldn't be *too* much extra work.. I wouldn't think
<markvandenborre> so how about getting this really interesting news fact out of the Kurdistan or Bhutan team to the international community?
<markvandenborre> (locoteams community)
<markvandenborre> maybe stimulate them to send in robot translations + the original if they can't find a translation immediately?
<Zelut> thats where I think the ambassadors come in.  making sure information flows both ways
<markvandenborre> k
<markvandenborre> next point, or we'll be running over time
<Vorian_> :)
<Zelut> recruit someone whos main responsibility is simply translating communications between teams.. I think we could find some interest inthat.
<markvandenborre> Zelut, absolutely
<markvandenborre> next: locoteams documentation, how to make it more practical
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<markvandenborre> any thoughts about this?
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<Zelut> you referring to the locoteamshowto, locoteamslist, etc?
<markvandenborre> loco docs, loco faq, locoteam howto,...
<markvandenborre> this stuff, yes
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<markvandenborre> it might be really interesting to compile all the information that has gathered into something more comprehensive
<markvandenborre> think a small, easily printable booklet
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<markvandenborre> right now, there's lots of information, but not always easy to find your way around...
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<markvandenborre> hey JoeyStanford !
<Zelut> i know it was a lot of guesswork when I created our team
<JoeyStanford> Hiya Mark!
<Vorian_> Zelut: Same with us...
<Zelut> a .pdf printable booklet would be nice I think
<Zelut> a step 1, step 2, etc layout would be nice.
<markvandenborre> maybe this is something to see on the mailing list if we can get a few people to work on it
<markvandenborre> ?
<markvandenborre> I would gladly join such an effort...
<Vorian_> I'll help
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<markvandenborre> other ways to improve this locoteams howto document?
<markvandenborre> documentation, I mean...
<markvandenborre> something that is really missing from it?
<Vorian_> I don't think there is
<Vorian_> It is just not organized as well as it could be
<markvandenborre> maybe it's also a good idea to have docs about new subjects grow on the wiki first, then include them...
<markvandenborre> ok, next point, women's group
<markvandenborre> any women around, or people who know what this is about?
<markvandenborre> let's all have a brief look at http://ubuntu-women.org/ then...
<JoeyStanford> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWomen
<JoeyStanford> both are the same
<JoeyStanford> I believe the question was:
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<JoeyStanford> Ubuntu Women is a specialized community team (not necessarily Local)
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<JoeyStanford> Is there a place for them inside the LoCo structure.
<dsas> I don't see why not, it's the same sort of thing...
<markvandenborre> it seems like a perfect fit, considering we also have pure language oriented teams
<markvandenborre> they aren't strictly locally linked either
* JoeyStanford appologizes for being late. His calendaring software said this started in 10 mins, not 50 mins ago.  bummer.
<markvandenborre> where else would they fit in?
<Zelut> after scanning through the wiki I think it seems more of a team like the marketing team, docs team, etc..
<JoeyStanford> Mark, I think that's the crux.
<Zelut> I think loco focuses more on regional support
<markvandenborre> Zelut, locoteams is really broad
<markvandenborre> for some things, it's as much about translations as about face to face support
<markvandenborre> no locoteam is the same in the tasks it defines for itself
<Seeker`> but the LoCo teams that is based on locations, be it countries or langugaes
<Seeker`> Women aren't in countries of their own, and they speak the same languages
<markvandenborre> there's Kurdish people in Belgium too
<markvandenborre> who are part of the Kurdish team...
<markvandenborre> and in the us, and everywhere around the globe
<JoeyStanford> Seeker, in this case, the UW group is a world-wide group. You are correct, they do not have a single local area.  The question to me is "do they do the things that a LoCo does but without a set geographical area". If the answer is yes, then they are simply a specialized LoCo.
<markvandenborre> Seeker`, do you think it would be bad if they joined the locoteams list?
<Zelut> i think they could work with loco teams in efforts of translation but I don't know about considering them a specialized loco, just a new team
<JoeyStanford> "the LoCo project is here to help groups of Ubuntu fans and enthusiasts work together in regional teams to help advocate, promote, translate, develop and otherwise improve Ubuntu."
<Seeker`> markvandenborre: I dont think it would be bad as such, I am just trying to work out wether they are actually a LoCo team or not
<JoeyStanford> If I read their wiki and web page correctly, they have nailed each point except "regional"
<markvandenborre> Seeker`, are angels male or female :p
<JoeyStanford> their region would be the Internet.
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<markvandenborre> I think we don't have to define them as a locoteam or not
<markvandenborre> but we and they sure could benefit from communicating
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<Seeker`> markvandenborre: I haven't given any thought to the question, and it is irrelevant
<markvandenborre> and the locoteams list looks like an obvious pleace for that...
<Zelut> again, I think coordinating the loco efforts with them would be beneficial (in the same way we'll help coordinate & translate with the marketing team) but considering them a loco seems to open to the door to consider every team a specialized loco
<Seeker`> if you have a womans LoCo team, why not have a LoCo for people called "Chris", or people with brown hair?
<JoeyStanford> Zelut has a good point. One of the concerns at UDS MTV was having multiple LoCos in a region.
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<markvandenborre> ah, that way you mean...
<markvandenborre> Seeker`, would that be a bad thing?
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<JoeyStanford> Normally specialized groups fall under the Community Council and not the LoCo team. In this case we have a specialized group which looks like a LoCo team but doesn't have a region.
<markvandenborre> you could easily say "even if we're not sure if you're a loco or not, you're welcome"
<Vorian_> I, for one, feel they should be welcome in the loco organization...for what its worth
<markvandenborre> okay for everyone if we tackle the next subject?
<Vorian_> should we table it?
<Seeker`> I think we have just run out of time
<Vorian_> there is another meeting now
<markvandenborre> who is responsible for the next meeting?
<Vorian_> ubuntugeek: 
<PriceChild> markvandenborre, ubuntugeek
* ubuntugeek raises hand
* Ubugtu has changed the topic to: Current meeting: Forum Council | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 09 Jan 21:00 UTC: Community Council | 10 Jan 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 11 Jan 21:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 16 Jan 20:00 UTC: Technical Board
<markvandenborre> ubuntugeek, have a few minutes left?
<markvandenborre> or maybe we could move to #ubuntu-locoteams just as well...
<ubuntugeek> we got a 2 hour slot, and i am sure we wont use it
<ubuntugeek> so if you need a few more minutes go for it
<markvandenborre> ok, so we just stay for another 5 to 10 minutes?
<markvandenborre> thx!
<ubuntugeek> thats fine
<markvandenborre> how to setup a LoCoteam newsletter (and avoid fragmentation)
<Zelut> what would be included in a locoteam newsletter?
<dsas> markvandenborre: What is supposed to be in the news letter?
<markvandenborre> the issue at stake here is that if you create a passive medium like a newsletter
<markvandenborre> translated pr for new ubuntu releases
<markvandenborre> announcements of events the locoteam participates in
<markvandenborre> announcements of other news relevant to the locoteam
<Vorian_> success stories!
<markvandenborre> things like that
<markvandenborre> the issue jono has with this is
<Zelut> sounds like similar things included in the UWN..
* JoeyStanford agrees with Zelut.
<markvandenborre> yes, but local level only
<markvandenborre> something that we need to be very careful about
<markvandenborre> is stimulating people who receive the newsletter
<markvandenborre> to also join the more active locoteam list
<markvandenborre> (so the local team list, not the international one)
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<markvandenborre> that's something particularly important to jono
<markvandenborre> and he has something of a point there
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<JoeyStanford> Based on the above, at this time I would favour enhancing the UWN LoCo area over creation of a LoCo only newsletter.
<JoeyStanford> UWN is in the beginnings of having it's issues translated.
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<Yann2> hi
<Zelut> I think each of the LoCos probably send out newsletter type updates on their own lists, and we have the UWN which shares larger successes.. sounds like duplication.
<JoeyStanford> Zelut, that's what my team does as well.
<markvandenborre> we have the following situation:
<Vorian_> Zelut: ditto
<JoeyStanford> Zelut, but I think Jono's concern is to have one master LoCo newsletter
<markvandenborre> lots of people on the locoteam list
<markvandenborre> this list is for active participants
<dsas> isn't the news worth folding into UWN though?
<Vorian_> why don't we just start one, and work out any issues that come of it?
<markvandenborre> (organising fairs, ...)
<markvandenborre> Vorian_, what do you mean?
<Vorian_> plan a newsletter for feb
<Vorian_> see what reactions are
<markvandenborre> what kind of a newsletter?
<Vorian_> Loco specific
<Vorian_> with the topics you listed earlier
<markvandenborre> what would be the added value of that?
<markvandenborre> locoteams list summary you mean?
<Vorian_> yep
<markvandenborre> isn't uwn enough?
<markvandenborre> they have enough problems already keeping to a schedule
<Vorian_> they could link to the loco news
* Zelut has to run off to work. be back at the CC meeting.
<markvandenborre> JoeyStanford, trying to explain why we are planning to run a local newsletter
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<markvandenborre> we have a lot of nl (or fr, for that matter) only people around
<markvandenborre> who are only interested in more basic news like:
<markvandenborre> new releases
<markvandenborre> and events where ubuntu-be.org will be present
<markvandenborre> this is quite a broad group
<dsas> markvandenborre: Can't you just make a summary for UWN and then include any .be specifics?
<markvandenborre> so we're talking really low frequency here
<Vorian_> I say monthly
<dsas> I don't have a problem with local newsletters, I must have misunderstood the idea.
<markvandenborre> yes, very well possible
<markvandenborre> the potential problem jono sees with this is fragmentation
<markvandenborre> people not making the jump from the passive low frequency newsletter to the locoteam itself
<markvandenborre> so we were looking for ideas on how to remedy that
<dsas> there's no reason why you can't do your own newsletter and just link in to the few big news when it happens, or link to UWN saying "more news available at"
<markvandenborre> good idea...
<Vorian_> dsas: right on
<markvandenborre> but also: link from the local newsletter to the local active volunteers mailing list
<JoeyStanford> and more importantly to me, ensure the UWN has the details so we can spread the word to everyone else.
<dsas> yeah, this shouldn't result in less info being passed to UWN
* JoeyStanford agrees.
<markvandenborre> if I understood jono correctly, this was not his objection
<markvandenborre> he was more concerned about fragmenting the local community
<markvandenborre> any hints on more ways to avoid that?
<dsas> Currently if people don't want to be very active then what choices do they have: don't be part at all? Increasing ways of participation is not a bad thing.
<markvandenborre> dsas, my thought exactly
* JoeyStanford looks at ubuntugeek and says "we'll be done in just a minute. last topic." :-)
<markvandenborre> 3....
<ubuntugeek> about 5 more mins good for you guys?
<Larynx> :D
<markvandenborre> 2....
<markvandenborre> 1...
<markvandenborre> 1/2....
<markvandenborre> done
 markvandenborre mbamford mdz meatballhat mgalvin Mithrandir mjg59 mvo_ 
<markvandenborre> thx all, thx ubuntugeek
<JoeyStanford> fade to black
<Vorian_> thanks markvandenborre !
<ubuntugeek> great
<markvandenborre> anyone
<ubuntugeek> thanks guys
<dsas> thanks ubuntugeek
<markvandenborre> who's still interested, -> #ubuntu-locoteams
<dsas> thanks markvandenborre for chairing  

MeetingLogs/Loco-2007-1-9 (last edited 2008-08-06 16:22:42 by localhost)