== Log ==
TZ UTC+1
{{{
10:08	dholbach	ok, let's get started
10:09	sistpoty	yes... *looking at the agenda*
10:09	dholbach	sistpoty wants to discuss "Work out MOTU Council's charter MOTU/Council/Charter"
10:09	dholbach	https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Meetings
10:09	dholbach	https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Council/Charter
10:10	sistpoty	ok, since the motu council still is in the way in finding its place in motu community, which has caused some annoyance recently, we've tried to get this sorted out into a proposal during the last motu council meeting
10:11	sistpoty	now, I've tried to put this in the charter somehow last night, I hope I got it in a good way ;)
10:11	sistpoty	so basically I'm asking here everyone, what you think of it, what needs to be changed/improved
10:11	sistpoty	and finally to acknowledge the charter (or reject it, if it's all wrong *g*)
10:12	dholbach	I'm basically very happy with it
10:13	dholbach	any other opinions on it?
10:13	TheMuso	I like the idea of a MOTU meeting every two weeks.
=== ajmitch is happy
10:13	dholbach	regular events++
10:14	TheMuso	The way I see the MOTU council, is a group of individuals that are well known and respected in the group, who have the skills and experience to approve/decline candidates, and make difficult decisions if needed.
10:14	TheMuso	WHich is basically what it is anyway.
10:14	TheMuso	So yeah sounds good to me. :)
10:14	sistpoty	:)
10:15	TheMuso	What disputes if any would there be between MOTUs?
10:15	ajmitch	technical arguments, generally
10:15	TheMuso	I find it hard to think of any, as we all seem to work well with each other.
10:16	dholbach	yeah, we're all quite focussed on "getting work done"
10:16	sistpoty	yep... this was basically a leftover from the first try... should we drop it?
10:16	ajmitch	I think it'd be more for where there's real disagreement on how to get something done
10:16	TheMuso	ajmitch: SOunds good.
10:17	dholbach	sistpoty: I'd keep it - I think it's a good thing there's somebody responsible for mediating between groups if it comes to disagreements
10:17	TheMuso	Pitty there aren't more of us here.
10:17	dholbach	we should blog more about MOTU :-)
10:17	sistpoty	hehe
=== ajmitch just got blogged about
10:17	ajmitch	not pointing any fingers or anything
10:17	TheMuso	ajmitch: ??
10:17	sistpoty	dholbach: ah... mediating was apparently the wording I was really looking for here :)
=== ajmitch points a finger at Burgundavia
10:18	geser	LaserJock started with interviews of MOTUs
10:18	TheMuso	Ah.
10:18	Burgundavia	I will chase down the Behind Ubuntu people
10:19	Burgundavia	and get them to do more interviews
10:19	Burgundavia	and then I will chase all you down for interviews :)
=== ajmitch was going to do an interview with them at one point
10:19	ajmitch	but they probably won't want that again :)
10:20	sistpoty	ok, let's get back to the charter... is there something obvious missing?
10:20	ajmitch	not that I could see
10:20	TheMuso	Me neither.
10:21	dholbach	it'd be nice to integrate ajmitch's summary somehow
10:21	dholbach	but apart from that it's fine
10:21	ajmitch	summary from MC meeting?
10:21	TheMuso	But since there are only a few of us here, what do you say we put a final call to the ml? I don't like the fact that not everybody is getting a chance to have a say.
10:21	ajmitch	TheMuso: I thought there'd be a *few* more people here
10:21	TheMuso	ajmitch: My point exactly.
10:21	ajmitch	like Hobbsee
10:22	sistpoty	TheMuso: good idea
=== ajmitch is ready to go & sleep already
10:22	TheMuso	heh
10:23	sistpoty	dholbach: I'd also like to see the summary in the actual charter, but I've only managed to transform it into a foreword somehow :(
10:23	sistpoty	<- no brainer ;)
=== dholbach hugs sistpoty
10:24	dholbach	sistpoty: will you mail the list about it?
10:24	sistpoty	ok, I will
10:24	dholbach	super
10:24	dholbach	any other business before we move on to fixed items?
10:25	sistpoty	is the TODO list up to date?
10:25	TheMuso	Yeah I have something I just want to ask about
10:25	dholbach	I tagged quite a bunch of bugs and filed the unmetdeps bugs
10:25	dholbach	and there's been quite some activity on fixing bugs
=== sistpoty hugs dholbach
=== ajmitch did try & help with unmet deps :(
10:25	dholbach	TheMuso: fire away
=== dholbach hugs ajmitch
10:26	gpocentek	(morning MOTUs)
10:26	TheMuso	Since we are getting/want to get more people on board, I am wondering whether we should consider putting something in place for merging at the begiinning of a release, like what we have had previously.
10:26	sistpoty	hi gpocentek
10:26	ajmitch	hey gpocentek
10:26	ajmitch	TheMuso: like the merge web tool?
10:26	TheMuso	ajmitch: To indicate who is doing what. The more people we have, the harder it will be to determine who has got what merge.
10:26	ajmitch	which is exactly what that did
10:27	ajmitch	basically stating that you had a lock on that package
10:27	TheMuso	I believe some people in this cycle filed bugs etc, but that wasn't manditory if I remember correctly.
10:27	TheMuso	ajmitch: Ah I don't really remember seeing that anywhere.
10:27	TheMuso	I may have been out of the loop at the time.
10:27	ajmitch	it was very useful, used malone bugs to track it
10:27	ajmitch	I think we used it for dapper?
10:27	sistpoty	yes, sounds like a good idea to me, as I think the merges for feisty stagnated at some point because too few people touched other people's merges
10:27	ajmitch	sistpoty coded it :)
=== sistpoty hides
10:28	TheMuso	ajmitch: Got an URL that we can give newcomers? And can the bot be updated with info about merging perhaps?
10:28	ajmitch	no, it was disabled since then
10:28	ajmitch	iirc
10:28	ajmitch	bot can be updated
10:28	sistpoty	yep, it's disabled (and a little bit broken atm)
10:28	TheMuso	sistpoty: Yeah, and the more of us there are, the messier it could be.
10:28	ajmitch	code would need revived & freshened
10:28	TheMuso	If we don't have something like that.
10:29	sistpoty	I guess I could set it up pretty quickly again, but the bug parser really should be redone (there was no x-launchpad thingy in bug mails at the beginning *g*)
10:30	ajmitch	should be a trivial task ;)
10:30	TheMuso	sistpoty: I am sure some of us would be happy to help you get it back up again.
10:30	TheMuso	But I think it should be ready before the new release cycle starts.
10:30	ajmitch	code is at http://tiber.tauware.de/~sistpoty/mergeWebTool/ in a bzr branch I think
10:31	sistpoty	that would be great... because it has had some issues at the past, where I'd have to manually fix things, and it would also be a great help if I there were more people who could then fix things ;)
=== ajmitch branches it
10:31	sistpoty	and I must admit that I don't have much of a clue about the packages thingy I stole from ajmitch :P
10:31	ajmitch	heh
10:31	ajmitch	which thing was that?
=== TheMuso also branches.
10:32	sistpoty	ajmitch: it imported package versions from unstable into the database
10:32	ajmitch	ah
10:32	dholbach	with the use of tags it should be quite easy
10:32	ajmitch	ah yes, I see that code now
10:32	ajmitch	shameful ;)
10:32	sistpoty	hehe
10:33	dholbach	one could use python-launchpad-bugs for the launchpad end
10:33	sistpoty	dholbach: to file merge bugs? or for s.th. else?
10:33	ajmitch	sistpoty: I made it about 100x faster by using britney code
10:33	sistpoty	:)
10:33	TheMuso	Ok this python is a little beyond me. :)
10:33	ajmitch	which is what I use each night for the RC bugs list
10:33	dholbach	sistpoty: to get an overview over which bugs are filed, who filed them, etc etc
10:34	sistpoty	ah...
10:34	ajmitch	dholbach: instead of mail?
10:34	TheMuso	And I think a few of us have wishes that MOM had a comments field for packages. Should we pursue that with Scott?
10:34	dholbach	ajmitch: yeah, why not? I don't insist on it - was just an idea
10:34	ajmitch	either that or scrape the pages & add in annotatoin :)
=== ajmitch was going to add a comments field to his rc bugs list
10:35	Mithrandir	TheMuso: no, ask doko or me for MOM stuff now.
10:35	sistpoty	oh, we need also some script to actually file bugs... iirc the script from \sh: we had back then broke somewhen due to lp changing
10:35	TheMuso	Mithrandir: Oh ok.
10:35	ajmitch	Mithrandir: excellent :)
=== ajmitch bribes Mithrandir
10:35	TheMuso	haha
10:35	ajmitch	sistpoty: just hack requestsync
10:36	sistpoty	good idea :)
10:36	ajmitch	though it can't tag by email yet
10:37	dholbach	python-launchpad-bugs can tag
10:37	ajmitch	useful
10:37	dholbach	http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/scripts/retag.py
10:38	TheMuso	Did we not have a package in universe that had useful MOTU tools at some stage?
10:38	dholbach	yeah, we should pursue that
10:38	dholbach	I'm sure everybody of us has nifty small tools that make life easier
=== ajmitch has a whole pile
10:38	TheMuso	Mostly tools others have written, but yeah.
10:39	sistpoty	how about starting a bzr-repo to collect useful scripts?
10:39	dholbach	who creates a motutools product in launchpad so we can have a bzr branch for that?
10:39	dholbach	branches
10:39	TheMuso	I can if people would like.
10:39	dholbach	great
10:39	sistpoty	:)
=== ajmitch thought we already had something somewhere
10:40	ajmitch	I know I had some of my stuff in a branch on tiber
10:41	dholbach	good to have it in LP
10:41	sistpoty	I guess the "something somewhere" is part of the problem ;)
10:41	TheMuso	Ok I'll do that after the meeting.
10:41	ajmitch	;)
10:41	dholbach	ok... anything else?
10:41	TheMuso	And annouce to the ML.
10:41	dholbach	TheMuso: thanks a lot
=== ajmitch will have to spend weeks cleaning up scripts before they can be useful for others
10:41	sistpoty	next motu meeting time? 2 weeks from now?
10:41	TheMuso	ajmitch: COmmit them, and we can do it together. :)
10:42	dholbach	sistpoty: same time? later?
=== TheMuso thinks about two weeks away.
10:42	TheMuso	Yeah I can do that.
10:42	sistpoty	dholbach: maybe we should rotate times?
10:42	ajmitch	2 weeks from now is just after Easter
10:42	TheMuso	I am happy to rotate.
10:42	sistpoty	(in case there won't be a conflict)
10:42	TheMuso	ajmitch: True.
10:42	ajmitch	rotating may be good, given how few people showed up here
10:42	TheMuso	I'll probably be catching up with a weekend's worth of email
10:43	TheMuso	After being away. :)
10:43	sistpoty	apr, 10 is tb meeting at 20.00utc, so we can't rotate to *that* time
10:43	sistpoty	(unless I can't count weeks now, like last meeting *g*)
10:43	dholbach	18:00 utc then?
10:44	sistpoty	ok with me
10:44	dholbach	so we get the americans too
10:44	TheMuso	Um, if you want an aussie, I can't do that.
10:44	ajmitch	you can have a kiwi, as long as you supply the caffeine IV drip
10:44	TheMuso	ajmitch: hehe
10:44	ajmitch	(6AM for me)
10:44	ajmitch	4AM for TheMuso & others in that area
10:45	dholbach	wed 20:00 utc?
10:45	TheMuso	Yeah thats fine.
10:45	ajmitch	ok
10:45	sistpoty	yep
10:45	TheMuso	I don't think it has to be two weeks exactly.
10:45	ajmitch	I think :)
=== ajmitch is meant to be at work at 20:30UTC
10:45	dholbach	hang on
10:45	dholbach	there's edubuntu meeting
10:46	highvoltage	somoene said edubuntu meeting?
10:46	TheMuso	I think us down under will have to face the fact that we can't make all meetings.
10:46	dholbach	apr 11th
10:46	highvoltage	ah scheduling... (/me moves on)
10:46	sistpoty	mon 9 apr still contains no schedules *g*
=== TheMuso throws hands in the air. If I miss it, I miss it. No big deal.
10:47	dholbach	sistpoty: isn't that when easter still is?
10:47	TheMuso	We can't please everybody.
10:47	Hobbsee	ooh strike, the meeting!  just when i went afk for a while!
10:47	sistpoty	dholbach: right
=== dholbach hugs Hobbsee
10:47	sistpoty	now that explains why the slot is still empty *g*
=== Hobbsee hugs dholbach
=== sistpoty shrugs about meeting times then
=== Hobbsee quickly reads the backscroll
10:48	dholbach	apr, 12th 20:00 utc then
10:48	ajmitch	Hobbsee!!
10:48	ajmitch	dholbach: alright ;)
10:48	dholbach	we have to make it a quick one, as the distro team meets one hour after that
10:48	sistpoty	dholbach: ubuntu dev team meeting
10:48	sistpoty	ah, right
10:48	dholbach	but given that we're short before release, there's not much to discuss anyway
10:49	ajmitch	april 12th, 20:00UTC will do
10:49	TheMuso	Yep sounds good.
10:49	dholbach	don't talk - fix bugs :)
10:49	ajmitch	ooh, friday 13th!
10:49	sistpoty	anyone unhappy with 12th, 20:00UTC?
10:50	ajmitch	nope :)
10:50	sistpoty	3
10:50	sistpoty	2
10:50	sistpoty	1
10:50	sistpoty	set
10:50	sistpoty	:)
10:50	ajmitch	yay!
10:50	TheMuso	haha
10:50	dholbach	rock
10:50	Hobbsee	ajmitch!!!
10:50	dholbach	next universe hug day?
=== ajmitch hugs dholbach
10:50	Hobbsee	sistpoty: i am.  grah.
=== ajmitch hugs Hobbsee
10:51	Hobbsee	oh, i wont even make that, most likely
10:51	Hobbsee	but that's OK
10:51	sistpoty	hm... once again, /me was too quick
10:51	Hobbsee	that whole merging thing with comments would help
10:51	Hobbsee	but i never sued the dapper merging thing
10:51	ajmitch	I'd hope not
10:51	ajmitch	you weren't as involved back then though
10:51	TheMuso	ROFL
10:52	TheMuso	Sorry, I took that the wrong way.
10:52	ajmitch	my poor DSL line at home... ;)
10:52	dholbach	when is the next universe hug day?
10:52	dholbach	do you find it useful?
10:52	Hobbsee	ajmitch: true
10:52	Hobbsee	s/sued/used/
10:52	ajmitch	dholbach: friday?
10:52	TheMuso	I haven't been round for the last couple, so can't say.
=== ajmitch hasn't really been involved in the hug day stuff
=== sistpoty doesn't have too much spare time for fixing bugs atm
10:53	dholbach	ajmitch: sounds good to me
10:53	dholbach	i'll write an announce
10:53	sistpoty	but I guess the hug days have been pretty good, weren't they?
10:53	TheMuso	Friday sounds good.
=== ajmitch has been doing some hacking on stuff for feisty+1 (sorry)
=== Hobbsee doesnt have time at the moment - kde stuff is my focus
10:54	ajmitch	as well as fixes for my code for feisty
10:55	dholbach	thanks a lot everybody - I think we're all set with the meeting, right?
=== sistpoty is
10:55	TheMuso	Yep.
10:56	TheMuso	I'll go grab some dinner, and will do the meetings/create motutools product.
10:56	dholbach	TheMuso: you rock
10:56	ajmitch	thanks!
10:57	sistpoty	thanks everyone!
10:57	ajmitch	dholbach: yep, meeting finished, etc :)
10:57	ajmitch	sistpoty can return to sleep
10:57	TheMuso	Ok, thanks all.
10:57	sistpoty	haha
}}