This is the 5th meeting of the Mozilla Team, starting at 18:00 UTC and finishing at 19:05 UTC

Attendance

Please type PRESENT at the start of the meeting to ensure we are all clear who is online and paying attention. Active Attendees:

• JohnVivirito

• AlexLatchford

• FreddyMartinez

• HMontoliu (hjmf) -- almost sure

• AlexanderSack

Agenda

When adding an agenda item please "sign" it by leaving your name next to it. If you won't be attending the meeting please also spell out your item in detail, otherwise we can't fruitfully discuss it.

Items we will be discussing:

Minutes

• Bughelper clue files for duplicates
  • Admiral_Chicago to work on writing initial clue files for Firefox.
• apport hooks for feisty
  • Speak to David as he is working on this.
  • No hooks will make it into Feisty, work on for Feisty+1.
• find users for testing packages
• Needs testing list.
  • Asac to work on this, possibility of speaking with LP.net team to add a 'Fixed in Revision'.
  • gnomefreak proposed setting up a dedicated Mozilla Testing Team, to be discussed at the next meeting.

  • Team to work on getting testers in, blog posts to the planet, mailing lists and jumping the forums. Especially for John's IceApe package.

• Possibility of adding SeaMonkey & NVU to Feisty Repositories

  • Too late for Feisty.

  • gnomefreak is working on adding IceApe to Feisty+1.

  • tonyyarusso is assigned to NVU in Feisty+1.

Any Other Business

• None.

IRC LOGS

<AlexLatchford> but for Feisty+1
 oh okay
<asac> lotusleaf: Possibility of adding SeaMonkey & NVU to Feisty Repositories<gnomefreak> have we started yet?
<hjmf> nope
<gnomefreak> asac: AlexLatchford Admiral_Chicago  are you guys here?
<asac> yeah
<AlexLatchford> yep
<hjmf> I think Admiral_Chicago couldn't be here
<asac> Admiral_Chicago: cannot come
<gnomefreak> i cant see anything can someone please chair the meeting for me
<Admiral_Chicago> gnomefreak: yea, i have to get this HW done, i'll check in and out
<gnomefreak> eterm is size of a nickle :(
<asac> should be pretty short meeting
<gnomefreak> last i looked there were 3 items
<asac> be back in a minute ... sry ... then lets start
<hjmf> four now
<asac> agenda?
<gnomefreak> oh ok cool
<AlexLatchford> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MozillaTeam/Meetings
<AlexLatchford> gnomefreak: you want me to chair?
<gnomefreak> AlexLatchford: i cant open links atm until i figure out how to copy and paste
 AlexLatchford: please
<AlexLatchford> heh, okay
 asac: Bughelper clue files for duplicates
<asac> gnomefreak: type :)
* gnomefreak pinging joejaxx to find out how to change this
<asac> yes, i think its time to start with this
 anyone has any experience with bughelper?
<gnomefreak> we really need david for this since he was working on them
* dholbach a bit :)
<asac> bughelper?
<Admiral_Chicago> i used it before
<asac> dholbach: hey :)
<Admiral_Chicago> yes. read dholbach diary guide
<gnomefreak> anyone know the status of david?
<dholbach> heya :)
<Admiral_Chicago> it was pretty useful
<dholbach> Admiral_Chicago: rock on! :)))))
<gnomefreak> asac: seeing as dholbach wrote it he might know
<asac> dholbach: what are best-practices for figuring out duplicates with bughelper?
<Admiral_Chicago> wiki.ubuntu.com/BugSquad/Diaries/dholbach iirc
<dholbach> if you look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BugSquad/Diaries/dholbach you will see an example where I made use of that
<Admiral_Chicago> yea, i can post a similar guide that I made with audacity crashes
<dholbach> bughelper -T <package> <search string> <text you want it to output> -p <package>              will find stuff
 bugxml -a <package> <search string> <text you want it to output>          will write/extend a clue file for you
 if you commit that clue file, it will turn up at http://daniel.holba.ch/bugs
 so people have working lists they can work from
<asac> where is the clue file created ?
 if i use bugxml like above?
<gnomefreak> i suggest we commit as many as possible than. dholbach is it possible to get them added after release?
<dholbach> gnomefreak: sure, just commit to a bzr branch
 asac: ~/.bughelper/config Local-Packages-Dir
 https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BugHelper/doc/writing-clue-files
<asac> ok ... i think we should figure out details on our own ... so better commit stuff to bugsquad ... or maintain cluefiles in mozillateam bzr?
<dholbach> ~bugsquad
<dholbach> bughelper checks out new clues every day
<Admiral_Chicago> yep, its in main iirc
<dholbach> so does bughelper on the host that has the http://daniel.holba.ch/bugs working lists
<gnomefreak> it is
<asac> ok. Admiral_Chicago, you want to setup initial clues for firefox?
<dholbach> Admiral_Chicago: no, it's bzr data that gets checked out separately
<Admiral_Chicago> right, i see that now
<gnomefreak> oh
<Admiral_Chicago> asac: i can give it a shot, I've got a fair understanding of the syntax
<asac> good :)
<Admiral_Chicago> and if not, i'm sure i'll come bother dholbach about it
<dholbach> in the easy cases you don't even need to touch xml
 Admiral_Chicago: sure thing
<asac> cool
<lotusleaf> are you taking questions here or in #ubuntu-meeting-questions ?
* gnomefreak misses feisty :(
<gnomefreak> lotusleaf: in here
<asac> lotusleaf: maybe after meeting
 add agenda item :)
<gnomefreak> depends on the question
 ok Admiral_Chicago is working on clue files?
<lotusleaf> but I waited so long ;_; ok thx
<asac> yes ... if he needs something ask me or dholbach
<gnomefreak> Admiral_Chicago: you might want to email david he might already have some set up
<asac> lotusleaf: short question?
 then go ahead ;)
<Admiral_Chicago> apparently I did a bad job about hiding in the background.
<gnomefreak> lotusleaf: we just started the meeting
<Admiral_Chicago> i will gnomefreak
<gnomefreak> Admiral_Chicago: ty
<lotusleaf> asac, it's not short in length but it's simple at the core
<gnomefreak> lotusleaf: go ahead and ask
<asac> i don't think david has much ... so starting from scratch should not be a problem imo
<AlexLatchford> asac: ill answer it in -questions
<lotusleaf> gnomefreak, thx, I did in -questions
<asac> i am not in there ;)
 anyway
<gnomefreak> me neither
<asac> move ahead?
<gnomefreak> please
<asac> next item: apport hooks
<gnomefreak> :(
<asac> here we have some hooks in wiki
<gnomefreak> another pain
<asac> however i have no idea of the state
<gnomefreak> me neither again that was a david job. his emails confused me to no end
<asac> question is if we really need them for feisty
 or if we should wait for david?
<gnomefreak> asac: now its too late isnt it?
<asac> no
<AlexLatchford> adding lotusleaf's question to the agenda
<asac> if we have tested apport hooks we could add them
<Admiral_Chicago> is apport going to be in Feisty
<gnomefreak> freeze is this week no?
<asac> AlexLatchford: ok
<gnomefreak> Admiral_Chicago: yes
<Admiral_Chicago> they was some talk about not releasing it for Feisty
<asac> yes ... its about the "Report a bug ..." menu mainly
<gnomefreak> Admiral_Chicago: its already in feisty
<Admiral_Chicago> but only during dev cycle.
<asac> and if people opt-in to crash submission
<gnomefreak> Admiral_Chicago: they are shutting it off (so it doesnt report bugs on won)
 own*
<Admiral_Chicago> what do you mean gnomefreak
 oh i see
 good
<asac> in stable you have to opt-in in order to be asked to submit crashes
<gnomefreak> Admiral_Chicago: right now you get a crash dialog. that will not happen after release unless you opt to do it
* gnomefreak would like to know how
<Admiral_Chicago> okay, that sounds better than getting a million reports.
<asac> so mostly this is about: can we life with normal crash reports not containing the hook infos
 e.g. plugin packages
 et al
 s/life/live/
<gnomefreak> would have to see the difference. right now there is no hooks for ff and tb so it wouldnt really matter imho
<asac> thats right ... i think its fine
 we mostly need plugins for crashes imo
 which will not be soo common once feisty is stable
<asac> as auto-submission is turned off by default
 so i guess its ok to not ship hooks in feisty :), agree?
<gnomefreak> thats fine here
<AlexLatchford> so, action on this is to get Admiral_Chicago to start writing clue files?
 woops
<asac> so far yes
 and ping david about apport hook state
<AlexLatchford> okay
<asac> ok whats next?
<gnomefreak> i wouls say if he has some than get them in there but i dont think we should focus on that atm
 asac: that would be me
 anyone often in ubuntuforums
<AlexLatchford> afraid not
<hjmf> not me
<gnomefreak> i need testers for a while with iceape
<asac> anyone would volunteer to drop a message in ubuntuforums to find testers?
 e.g. for iceape?
<gnomefreak> i built it for ubuntu (starter build) and need as much testing as possible before feisty+1 gets it
<Admiral_Chicago> not me, i never go on the forums
<asac> hmm
<AlexLatchford> in Feisty+1?
<gnomefreak> i will be trying to set up a repo in the next few days if i cant i will ask asac to throw it on preview. but i would like to change the name as it is now
<gnomefreak> AlexLatchford: im looking at gettign it in feisty+1
<AlexLatchford> aha okay
<AlexLatchford> well ill give it a go
 try and stir up some interest
 it will be from your own repository?
<asac> maybe we can blog about it?
<AlexLatchford> and built to work on Feisty?
<asac> instead of forums?
<gnomefreak> k ty i will post it on blog sometime when i have it ready for testing (next couple of days)
<AlexLatchford> thats a better idea
<asac> and hope that the info leaks through to diffuse?
 diffuse in community
<AlexLatchford> Freddy and David are on the Planet I believe
<gnomefreak> AlexLatchford: mine or if asac agrees the preview repo
<asac> good
<gnomefreak> i know freddy is
<Admiral_Chicago> AlexLatchford: yes, as is gnomefreak.
<Admiral_Chicago> I'll blog about it if you email me
<AlexLatchford> okay, well ill give you a buzz in teh near future to remind
<gnomefreak> not sure if david is or not i havent seen him since he was accepted
<Admiral_Chicago> he wrote on the planet a few times
<AlexLatchford> gnomefreak: he is, has written several articles on development of the community, very interesting actually
 okay, think this leads onto my point..
<gnomefreak> it will be in /topic in 3ubuntu-mozillateam when its ready incase i forget to let people know. but i should also send post to list on it
<asac> ok, once we have something to test we will drop message to mailing list
 and whoever wants can blog about it
 :)
<AlexLatchford> sounds good to me
<Admiral_Chicago> +1
<gnomefreak> :) ok cool
<AlexLatchford> AlexLatchford: Needs testing list.
<asac> whats that about?
<AlexLatchford> basically, I have been using the -mt builds, but I am unsure of exactly what needs testing
<gnomefreak> mt should be done with next upload
<AlexLatchford> if there is a changelog we can build
<gnomefreak> right?
<AlexLatchford> or would this be counter-productive
<asac> changelog we can build?
 what do you mean?
<AlexLatchford> changelog you can publish showing what has been fixed
<asac> you want infos what things are for testing in mt-archive?
 ah ok
<AlexLatchford> yeah
<asac> changelog diff from official archive to mt-xxx
<gnomefreak> asac: like what you gave me this morning i think
<asac> yes, we can do that
<AlexLatchford> because I use the -mt builds and I have no clue what to test
 can you publish them to a page?
<asac> ok fine. actually they are not always newer
 only if there is something to test
 yes, i will work on mt-xxx procedures
 and policies
<AlexLatchford> aha thanks
<asac> add that as an action
 its currently not defined what is in there and how up-to-date is that
 i see that this needs transparency
<AlexLatchford> yep, because if we are going to look for preview testers, we should tell them what they are testing
<asac> exactly
<AlexLatchford> okay, i will minute that as an action
 next
<asac> i will think about it
<gnomefreak> and i think we need to set this up as a team maybe?
<asac> at best i want something automatic ... obviously :)
<gnomefreak> so we have testers at hand most of time?
* asac hates keeping wiki pages up-to-date :)
<gnomefreak> not wiki LP
<AlexLatchford> asac: I agree
 it is not worth doing unless is it automatic
 because it just takes away from your time
<asac> AlexLatchford: no ... should be fine. I don't upload to mt so often
<gnomefreak> we ALWAYS need testers either for builds or for patches or to dupe a bug
<asac> it would just be inconvenient
 but i have to do that either way
<AlexLatchford> hmm okay
<asac> gnomefreak: yes
<AlexLatchford> perhaps speak to the LP Team about expanding the Fix Commited /Released to include a version, then do a diff based on bugs fixed in a version?
<asac> we should setup a test-work page
 where you can find mt-needtester mt-needtestcase bugs
 as well as things that should be tested in preview packages
<asac> AlexLatchford: i talk to launchpad team regularaly
<asac> however i think versioned bug tracking is still for the future
<AlexLatchford> okay
<asac> usually mt builds will contain patches for only some issues
 so they should be easy to list :)
 one just has to remember
 ;)
<AlexLatchford> yeah sure
<asac> ok ... are we through with this item?
<AlexLatchford> think so
<gnomefreak> asac: ok so start a LP test team?
 guerby gpocentek gouki gnomefreak
<AlexLatchford> gnomefreak: good idea
<asac> LP test team?
* gnomefreak just catching up
<AlexLatchford> yes, a mozilla-testing team
<asac> hmm
<gnomefreak> asac: for bug testing patch testing package testing ....
<asac> maybe at some point
 but lets first get some testers :)
<AlexLatchford> would be useful
<asac> yes ... question is if a mozilla-testing team will allow us to more easily acquire more testers
<gnomefreak> k
<asac> ?
 i am not sure about that ... might be the case ... or might not be
<AlexLatchford> it should do
<gnomefreak> it may people love joining teams for the hell of it and its a way to get them involved in mozilla products imo
<asac> hmm
 ok
<gnomefreak> only way to tell is either a poll or do it
<asac> lets say ... when we find 6 volunteers, lets setup one, ok?
<gnomefreak> give me time to think about it on how to handle it and ill let everyone know but in mean time we need testers
<asac> anyway, we first need the test page :)
 after that we can setup a team
 because a team that has nothing to do is not worth much :)
<gnomefreak> agreed
<AlexLatchford> okay
 lets move on 
<asac> ok .... next item?
<AlexLatchford> lotusleaf: Possibility of adding SeaMonkey & NVU to Feisty Repositories
* gnomefreak is getting highly pissed off now
<AlexLatchford> think this deadline has gone
<gnomefreak> seamonkey yes its iceape
<AlexLatchford> but for Feisty+1
 oh okay
<asac> lotusleaf: Possibility of adding SeaMonkey & NVU to Feisty Repositories
<gnomefreak> nvu doublt full but someone was working on this
 all for feisty+1
<AlexLatchford> IceApe is the debian version though?
<asac> we don't have an nvu package
 i don
 t know the state of tony
 iceape is seamonkey with different logo and icon
<gnomefreak> asac: nvu stopped support and went to kompozer
 it was tonyyarusso  wasnt it
<asac> yes
 can't tell how far he got
 haven't heard much
<gnomefreak> me neither
<asac> probably he gave up on it :)
<AlexLatchford> so tonyyarusso was on NVU?
 hmm okay
<gnomefreak> is that all for important items?
<asac> anyway, i think once the feisty+1 packages are there it will be pretty easy for anyone to maintain mozilla packages
 at least much more then today :)
<lotusleaf> AlexLatchford, according to the !nvu information the bot has
<AlexLatchford> !nvu
* gnomefreak can get in touvh with him later but that was for feisty+1 iirc
<ubotu> nvu is a WYSIWYG and code dual-function HTML editor for easily creating web pages.  The original developer is working on a full rewrite; meanwhile, another is doing bugfixes.  It is not the Ubuntu repos for Feisty Fawn, but ping tonyyarusso to inquire about packages.  See also !html.
<gnomefreak> !info nvu feisty
<ubotu> Package nvu does not exist in feisty
<AlexLatchford> aha okay, well NVU is planned to be in Feisty+1
 ?
<gnomefreak> lotusleaf: it was removed first couple of weeks repos were open
<AlexLatchford> and SeaMonkey is planned as IceApe
<gnomefreak> AlexLatchford: not sure of the name yet
<asac> AlexLatchford: depends on how we can maintain it
 asw asac
<lotusleaf> gnomefreak, thanks for details
<AlexLatchford> asac: but if a maintainer can be found, there is no reason as to why not?
<asac> sure
* gnomefreak started work on iceape and asac is maintainer so we are keeping that :)
<AlexLatchford> aha good
<lotusleaf> any possibility for IceApe since it will offer web browser news/email client, irc client, wysiwyg composer then since Nvu is out?
<asac> lotusleaf: not for feisty ... sorry
<gnomefreak> lotusleaf: nothing can be put in feisty
<asac> we are far after hard freeze
<gnomefreak> i will have repo open for iceape testing packages
<asac> complete new packages are out of question
<AlexLatchford> Feisty+1 probably the best bet
<asac> lotusleaf: anyway, probably you will see feisty backports at some point
<lotusleaf> asac, I thank you and the others for your time :) I hope to do testing for you in the future.
<gnomefreak> ok i need to go this has pissed me off way too much
<asac> lotusleaf: gnomefreak will provide packages for feisty
 in a day or too
 if its for you, you can use those
<gnomefreak> make it 2
<lotusleaf> asac, thx np, I build myself anyway, was just hoping for inclusion for the masses
<asac> ok
<gnomefreak> ok bye ill be bvack in a few hours maybe less
<asac> ok cu
 thanks all
<lotusleaf> thanks again for taking my question \o/ :)
<asac> till next meeting (whenever that will be) :)
<AlexLatchford> :)
<asac> lotusleaf: welcome

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